Elder Renlund: "It seemed good to the Holy Ghost" to send the first presidency vaccination letter

[Silver Pie]

I'm wondering if it's been doctored or messed with.... How could they think it's a good idea to encourage no adults??? I dunno, something seems off about it

[Silver Pie]

They recently had the same youth meeting in Heber city for the youth with Rasband…. No adults or leaders.

[Silver Pie]

The reasoning is that he might be planning on inferring that if their parents or leaders try to tell them something that goes counter to what the Q15 say, they need to follow the Q15. Of course I could be wrong, but this already happened with some area authority in the SL area.

Rather like fascism or communism, I would venture. Control the minds from a very early age. Make the parents the bad guys. Encourage turning on the parents, turning in the parents. Rather like Laman and Lemuel were taught. Somehow, it didn't take with Sam and Nephi.

[Trucker]

It was Rasband that spoke in Africa. Just found the video (thanks to Alexander)

I shake my head at comments like this from the press release about the meeting. https://news-africa.churchofjesuschrist ... lts-africa

Along with that came a clarion call to follow the living prophet. This, said Elder Sitati, “was especially relevant at a time when many are not vaccinated against COVID-19"

Thank you for posting this video! It illustrates just how INCREDIBLY WRONG and reckless Q15 actually were.

The interviewer asked Rasband a question: "Many high level leaders in Africa are NOT recommending the shot, how do you reconcile this?"

Rasband appeals to authority...NOT spiritual authority, NOT personal revelation for yourself, NOT ask God... but worldly authority...arm of the flesh authority. He says Q15 has this figured out, God told us, no need to trust ANYONE else but RMN and company. We got this from God, trust us...He literally says WE consider the jab a "miracle" a "Godsend" implying strongly it would be foolish not to follow RMN.

Rasband then appeals to authority again...with the August 12th letter. Which he makes clear is for ALL 16 million members worldwide. The outright FALSEHOODS in the letter are astounding, given the infallibility buildup he just constructed.

OUTRIGHT FALSE STATEMENTS INCLUDE:

1. Masks protect you from viruses
2. Social distancing protects you from viruses
3. Jab is safe
4. Jab is effective
5. Mass Jabbing the population is the ONLY way to end covid
6. Referring to covid as an unrelenting pandemic

Rasband then doubles down and triples down with his "I urge you to get jabbed" comments...with additional appeals to follow RMN. Then specifically says RMN's advice should SUPERCEDE the words of the African leaders.

This seven minute video is so damning. It is a plaintiffs DREAM COME TRUE. It proves Q15 gave medical advice to 16 million people. It proves that Q15 further pressured members to get the jab with appeals to authority with included guilt and shame for noncompliance. This medical advice was given with a KNOWN AT THE TIME...an untested, unproven, new mRNA tech which did not go well in previous animal trials, gene therapy drug...and many intelligent people including doctors worldwide (Barrington Declaration) were speaking out AGAINST it...including leaders in African nations.

We have to remember Q15 did not get it a little bit wrong here, a small percentage wrong, half wrong-half right...NO...they got it ALL wrong...as in 100% wrong...as in their advice got people injured and killed wrong.

And...as of 12-30-2022 not a hint of retraction, apology or even a warning of possible side effects (the CDC has even done this)...NO...just crickets.

This is NOT how God runs things!!!!!

I wonder what Razzy is gonna say to the youth without the parents present?

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If this is real, my reaction would be not only no, but hell no. This is grooming behavior and totally a red flag. Elder R. should at least know that he should avoid the appearance of evil, and this appears evil. Cults are as cults do. If we do things cults do, then we are one. Doesn't matter our gospel, keys, history or anything else.

[HVDC]

I wonder what Razzy is gonna say to the youth without the parents present?

Any updates to this story?

Sir H

[ransomme]

What's the best translation?

* Well why not?
* We couldn't help but tell you what to do, rather then just say make up your own mind/heart.
* We couldn't overcome our trust in the arm of the flesh.
* We couldn't overcome our fear.
* We're not sure what the holy ghost feels like.
* We had indigestion.
* We just did what we were told, and now have to make a lame excuse.

[Mamabear]

I wonder what Razzy is gonna say to the youth without the parents present?

Any updates to this story?

Sir H

Haven’t heard anything. It might not have happened yet.
If I do I will post it

[Robin Hood]

*Racial prejudice, suggesting dark skin was God’s curse. 3Ne 2:15, Moses 7:8

It was though.

I don’t believe so, nor do other scriptures (if you insist on dogma)…

“The LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.” - 1Samuel 16:7

What has that got to do with priesthood ordination?

[Rumpelstiltskin]

If you ask him (God) for that witness, you too will know that Russel Marion Nelson is God's prophet on the earth today.

This is a classic case of claiming confirmation bias is the Holy Ghost. Confirmation bias is defined as, "the tendency to interpret new evidence as confirmation of one's existing beliefs or theories." The Church really doesn't have a clue about discernment, especially since what they teach bears little resemblance to what Joseph Smith taught.

[Thinker]

And the scriptures plainly say that God is no respecter of persons, and that the gospel is free to all - bond and free, male and female, black and white (and any other color you want to label people). In that light, I see zero way that dark skin can be a curse, even if the Nephites soon conflated the skin color with the curse.

In fact, if people are exposed to a lot of heat (like in Africa, South America, and India, for example), the dark skin protects them from sun damage.

And we need to remember that Joseph was a product of his age. The wording in the book could have been a bit colored by his beliefs and paradigms.

Good & interesting points.
Unfortunately I have witnessed more than I’d like of members’ justifying racial prejudice based on those scriptures (in other post). Of course if it isn’t hurting the average person, they don’t give a rip. Preach cult stuff & cognitive dissonance & confirmation bias are even harder to get over. Words. That’s all they are - yet people have been hurt & killed over them. Script -ure - another script - mixed with good and evil - opposition in ALL things. Unicorns & other Greek mythology are in the bible - yet people still take it all so literally. If it didn’t hurt anyone, no biggie, but it does.

Similarly, after reading East of Eden, I see the possibility of the story/parable of Cane & Abel as possibly projected idea of God/Father as believing more in Cane & thus refusing less than his best, & Cane being blamed, even when he wasn’t directly responsible for Abel’s death. And this may seem heretical but I have often wondered if those who are most chastened (who suffer most/refiner’s fire) love God most & are most loved by God. God’s chosen because they choose God.

[Thinker]

*Racial prejudice, suggesting dark skin was God’s curse. 3Ne 2:15, Moses 7:8

It was though.

I don’t believe so, nor do other scriptures (if you insist on dogma)…

“The LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.” - 1Samuel 16:7

What has that got to do with priesthood ordination?

If you practice the priesthood, you ought to know.

[Thinker]

*Racial prejudice, suggesting dark skin was God’s curse. 3Ne 2:15, Moses 7:8

It was though.

I don’t believe so, nor do other scriptures (if you insist on dogma)…

“The LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.” - 1Samuel 16:7

The Lord put the curse on the Lamanites so the Nephites could easily identify and avoid them. So it had more to do with their identification by the Nephites…

I don’t believe that, & see such a belief as illogical & immoral.

[Robin Hood]

It was though.

I don’t believe so, nor do other scriptures (if you insist on dogma)…

“The LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.” - 1Samuel 16:7

What has that got to do with priesthood ordination?

If you practice the priesthood, you ought to know.

So how is God's refusal to permit the ordination of Gentiles in OT times justified, or any non-Levite come to think of it... or women?
Surely he could look upon the heart then as well as now.
Or perhaps priesthood ordination is a different thing entirely.

[FrankOne]

It was though.

I don’t believe so, nor do other scriptures (if you insist on dogma)…

“The LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.” - 1Samuel 16:7

What has that got to do with priesthood ordination?

If you practice the priesthood, you ought to know.

this gives me a pause as i consider the statement.

so...for you, what precisely does 'practice the priesthood' mean ?

[Thinker]

I don’t believe so, nor do other scriptures (if you insist on dogma)…

“The LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.” - 1Samuel 16:7

What has that got to do with priesthood ordination?

If you practice the priesthood, you ought to know.

So how is God's refusal to permit the ordination of Gentiles in OT times justified, or any non-Levite come to think of it... or women?
Surely he could look upon the heart then as well as now.
Or perhaps priesthood ordination is a different thing entirely.

It’s a big religious game, RH!
His-story is told by the victors. What so-&-so said or wrote doesn’t equal God. Come on! It’s like taking the game, Monopoly as if the rules applied to real life. It’s not just our relatively little cult, but other religions (ie Judaism that parented Christianity & Islam) has been used to control & suppress for centuries.

[Thinker]

I don’t believe so, nor do other scriptures (if you insist on dogma)…

“The LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.” - 1Samuel 16:7

What has that got to do with priesthood ordination?

If you practice the priesthood, you ought to know.

this gives me a pause as i consider the statement.

so...for you, what precisely does 'practice the priesthood' mean ?

That you caught that, I appreciate.

According to the church, “priesthood is the power and authority to act in the name of God for the salvation of humankind.”

Maybe practicing priesthood starts with practicing the 3 greatest commandments:

1. Love God above all. Seeking who/what is God & God’s will? This involves being open to correction & wrestling with previous mistaken ideas of God & God’s will… while also exercising active faith. A lifetime process interconnected with the other 2.

2. Love self as you would care for & discipline a loved child. Exploring your own kingdom of God within… what exactly is salvation - what are you being saved from?

3. Love others with high quality empathy & compassion based on being able to see clearly to love better.

What do you think practicing priesthood involves - generally or specifically?

[FrankOne]

What has that got to do with priesthood ordination?

If you practice the priesthood, you ought to know.

this gives me a pause as i consider the statement.

so...for you, what precisely does 'practice the priesthood' mean ?

That you caught that, I appreciate.

According to the church, “priesthood is the power and authority to act in the name of God for the salvation of humankind.”

Maybe practicing priesthood starts with practicing the 3 greatest commandments:

1. Love God above all. Seeking who/what is God & God’s will? This involves being open to correction & wrestling with previous mistaken ideas of God & God’s will… while also exercising active faith. A lifetime process interconnected with the other 2.

2. Love self as you would care for & discipline a loved child. Exploring your own kingdom of God within… what exactly is salvation - what are you being saved from?

3. Love others with high quality empathy & compassion based on being able to see clearly to love better.

What do you think practicing priesthood involves - generally or specifically?

a relative shared something with me that he was told by a divine being , in person. He did not share the identify of that being , although I believe it was Christ.

an excerpt: "Joseph Smith was a true prophet, and through him was restored the priesthood, the power of God unto Salvation".

It appears, today, that it is generally impossible to tell the difference between acts of faith and works of the priesthood. Why? Why are there not greater 'works' done by priesthood bearers?

there's a scripture about the power of the priesthood coming down like dew and increasing the priesthood power as it is exercised.

it is my experience that the exercise of the priesthood is merely being a vessel for the power of God to flow out. NOT by choice of the individual, but by the choice of God. Truly miraculous, not just a maybe. I've seen this happen and it is not anything to do with faith.

the increase comes when your will and your mind and your desires are non-existent. The temptation is to use the power to heal anyone you want or to help others as you will in miraculous ways.

The truth is that a priesthood bearers own will has to be stilled. ...completely. If he makes the choice, he is wrong . This concept is not taught anywhere because it is not understood. God heals, not man. God does the works, not man. God operates the power, not men. God makes the choice of who to heal or how the priesthood is dispensed , not man.

this is why very little priesthood is being exercised. Works by Faith is something completely different.

buddha said it this way "to become as hollow bamboo"

[Thinker]

…it is my experience that the exercise of the priesthood is merely being a vessel for the power of God to flow out. NOT by choice of the individual, but by the choice of God. Truly miraculous, not just a maybe. I've seen this happen and it is not anything to do with faith.

the increase comes when your will and your mind and your desires are non-existent. The temptation is to use the power to heal anyone you want or to help others as you will in miraculous ways.

The truth is that a priesthood bearers own will has to be stilled. ...completely. If he makes the choice, he is wrong . This concept is not taught anywhere because it is not understood. God heals, not man. God does the works, not man. God operates the power, not men. God makes the choice of who to heal or how the priesthood is dispensed , not man.

this is why very little priesthood is being exercised. Works by Faith is something completely different.

buddha said it this way "to become as hollow bamboo"

Awesome! I so agree that God’s power works by God’s will, not ours. And I also observe that this is not how most approach it, & unfortunately that means “goodbye” to the priesthood of that one. Though I think God is patient & we can & should try try again.

Nobody’s perfect & we all cannot help but FEEL fear, desire etc. So I don’t think we can just flip a switch & turn off all that to be an empty vessel. But I think we can practice incorporating our shadow (repenting by shedding light on dark/subconscious trouble-makers within us)… & practice praying as in listening to God more. And keeping the greatest commandments - or striving to prioritize God/truth, & loving others as ourselves - is part of practicing priesthood.