Guess what info is required before you can cancel a church sealing (aka divorce).

[HereWeGo]

In the later 1980s, my friend's wife started cheating on him and filed for divorce. She married the guy she had been cheating with and soon applied for a temple divorce so she could be sealed to the new suiter. He was only 7 years older than her oldest child. My friend opposed it hoping he could get back together with her. It was granted anyway. He went inactive for a long time because of perceived injustices. He kept his temple covenants.

He has been married to his current wife for 11 years and she wanted to be sealed to him. They applied to be sealed last summer. He received a similar letter, like the one above. He was supposed to detail every sin he had committed since he was released from his original temple sealing in the later 1980s. His wife didn't receive such a letter even though she had been sealed previously. Both of them were angry about him getting such a letter. They spent several months trying to decide if they were going to produce such a letter or just forget the sealing. Somehow, the SP got involved and my friend didn't have to detail his life.

[tmac]

Imagine that. In the end, it's not WHAT you know/did, it's WHO you know, and vouches on your behalf.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Imagine that. In the end, it's not WHAT you know/did, it's WHO you know, and vouches on your behalf.

There's always an Option B... or C... or D......

[Chip]

This screening process is absolute hell for people with abusive spouses and or people struggling with mental health issues such as ptsd. It adds fuel to the fire and puts power in the hands of the controllers.
There is good news that can override this whole process though…it’s called IQuit.

Right. It's their club with their rules. You only need to do this if you want to stay in their club. The not even once club. The whited sepulcher society of lettered patricians.

[Atrasado]

A friend recently shared this. Her sister requested to cancel a temple sealing due to divorce. This is what the church requested of her. And now you know the rest of the story.

That seems weirdly similar to Scientology. They want a written list of a person's sins to cancel an ordinance? What the... I would have to trust them a little more than I do to do that. My goodness.

[Robin Hood]

That is not entirely true.
They are suspended. They still technically exist. This is demonstrated by the fact that when someone who has been excommunicated is rebaptised, after a qualifying period (usually 1 year), they can have all of their former blessings restored by the simple laying on of hands. No need to be re-ordained to the priesthood or to go through the temple again. The restoration of blessings simply lifts the suspension.

There is no evidence to suggest that someone loses any blessings or priesthood when a group of old men decides that you should be kicked out of the club.

Does God dictate who holds authority, or your local SP?

What do you mean by "group of old men"?
Stake high councils these days are increasingly made up of quite young men, even some YSA.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Stake high councils these days are increasingly made up of quite young men, even some YSA.

Can you serve on the high council and be single? We had a guy get divorced and he was released because he wasn't married. TBM as they come.

His wife is a gem though, we met a few years after this divorce and I know why she left him. There was no questioning church leaders with this dude.

[gradles21]

I have a friend who has had 3 temple divorces, he described the process to me once and it sounded awful. I think the reason they make the process so difficult is to discourage people from going through with the temple divorce, that's the only reason that makes sense to me.

[farmerchick]

A friend recently shared this. Her sister requested to cancel a temple sealing due to divorce. This is what the church requested of her. And now you know the rest of the story.

What sin exactly??? We've been taught by the world there is no sin only your authentic self and your own truth......and some in the church currently engaged in so called on non binary relationships aren't sinning...sooooo what is the freaking problem? Anyone who wants a sealing dismissed should be able to do it. You can't have it both ways IMHO.

[blitzinstripes]

Next they will want your FICA score and your vaccine status.

[gruden2.0]

Neither the temple sealing, nor any other ordinance, has any actual effect until it is fully ratified and sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise, so what difference does it actually make?

While worthiness for a prospective sealing would seem to have little to do with cancellation of a previous one, that does appear to be what they are attempting to screen(and micro-manage) for.

True, it's stated plainly enough if people would bother to listen, but they either don't or assume that it was an effectual sealing because everyone else views it that way. You notice the leadership never stands up to discuss it and encourage the members to seek that ratification. Why? They're a lot easier to control if they think they have something they don't, as opposed to if they actually do. People will feel obligated to answer those invasive questions posed in the most impersonal way (phone app? really?) because they think it might make a difference (and it only does because they believe it).

It's also probably because they never got that ratification for themselves, so why bring it up?

[WildOliveBranch2]

Screening for adultery.

I feel like you’re absolutely correct. This is frightening to me because there are so many other “sins” that are very serious (like falsely accusing others or stirring up gossip) that could literally ruin those people’s lives & their reputation in & out of the Church, like very often happens in a divorce situation. When I went through my divorce back in 2004 (though I’m still “sealed” to my ex), our Ward completely split right down the middle in opinions & I was falsely accused & judged by my peers. I didn’t even commit adultery at all & was accused of so many heinous things by my ex & his boys club (& “sisters” in the Ward who just loved to jump on the gossip train for a superficial ride)... meanwhile I was the one who kept the house & the kids & had to carry on in that Ward. I had to function under those accusations & still carried on, taking my kids to early morning seminary, etc. all the proper good-Church-member sacrifices & yet so much of my companion Ward members kept an accusing eye on me (whilst my ex moved far out of our Ward boundaries).. so I guess I’m writing here like a bit of a sorry-for-myself story, but I hope, in my own simpleton way, I’m trying to expose the hurt that such a “scanning for adultery” hurts when there are so many crueler kinds of pains committed against fellow Church members such as false accusations & the burden of having to continue on & function under those mercy-free environments. Seriously, this IS by hugest problem with the Church. Where is Christ-like love & radical forgiveness? I mean, maybe it only truly means that those that accuse or gossip about underlings & disadvantaged people are actually, likely, guilty of the self-same struggles that they accused *me* of having. The true true true Gospel of Jesus Christ is so so scant in certain congregations in our Church that I feel very very very discouraged about it. Somehow, I hope, in this poor-me rant of mine here, that I’m somehow expressing that the same kind of hurt feels to come from that #3 point on that temple cancellation paperwork. I mean, I thought Christ told off the Elders that were trying to zing the woman they say they “saw” in adultery.. & what about all of the Christ-like virtues that we are supposed to feel exist in our top leaders (“Representatives of Jesus Christ”).. no. We are actually amongst a huge huge huge pack of Gadiantons up in the upper levels. I may be damning myself, unfortunately, by making that statement, & if the real True & Living Savior Jesus Christ chastises me for it, I will truly repent. But in the meantime, I feel that the Heavenly Father I still pray to (& from whom I still receive saving graces & tender mercies on a daily & hourly basis), allows me guilt-free to make such bold bold “dangerous” remarks. In the end, we are all accountable for how much true Charity we have, not how many “i”s dotted or “t”s crossed in our Church documents. I’m not saying I feel I hold high standards of Charity yet, but I *do* believe that the same God I’ve been praying to for help all these years through all kinds of troubles, holds way way way different standards for His lambs, than the Sadducees & Pharisees & False Christs holding many places of “honor” leadership grips in our “beloved” Church.. However, when I pray about these things in concern & panick, the answers I get are more like, well, that’s the very test you’ve been born into mortality to discern.. Who Do We Listen To? The “Prophets”? Or are answers from God that we receive ourselves. This is a constant Trial of Faith. In the end we have to figure out how to See The Face Of God & Live. I feel worried about this every day. But I feel one of our biggest trials, being part of Those Who Have Learned The Gospel, whether we’ve stayed in the Church or not, is figuring out what points of doctrine are true & what are false (discerning Truth From Error).. & discerning what Voice (Who Do You Listen To) &/or Voices to Whom We Should Be Listening To. It’s a daily & hourly test of Discernment.

Anyway, Thanks for Reading. I haven’t been on this Forum for years, & lost my original sign-in email & passwords, so now I’m back as WildOliveBranch2. My original username was WildOliveBranch.

Best,
Jesse

[Reluctant Watchman]

Next they will want your FICA score and your vaccine status.

They already request your jab status to serve a mission. And they required the jab at the beginning of the rollout for stake patriarchs and their wives.

[Gadianton Slayer]

That is not entirely true.
They are suspended. They still technically exist. This is demonstrated by the fact that when someone who has been excommunicated is rebaptised, after a qualifying period (usually 1 year), they can have all of their former blessings restored by the simple laying on of hands. No need to be re-ordained to the priesthood or to go through the temple again. The restoration of blessings simply lifts the suspension.

There is no evidence to suggest that someone loses any blessings or priesthood when a group of old men decides that you should be kicked out of the club.

Does God dictate who holds authority, or your local SP?

What do you mean by "group of old men"?
Stake high councils these days are increasingly made up of quite young men, even some YSA.

Who creates the qualifications by which your local leadership judges the necessity for excommunication? A group of very old men. I personally don’t know any YSA high councilmen, or even a SP under 50-60.

I’d also like my question to be addressed; young or not, who dictates which person can hold authority or receive blessings? God, or your local leaders?

[spiritMan]

Stake high councils these days are increasingly made up of quite young men, even some YSA.

Can you serve on the high council and be single? We had a guy get divorced and he was released because he wasn't married. TBM as they come.

His wife is a gem though, we met a few years after this divorce and I know why she left him. There was no questioning church leaders with this dude.

To really get you going, Yes a man can be single and be in the high council and what's more can be openly queer!

Ben Schilatly the queer from the DB thread is on the high council there!

[CaptainM]

I am amazed that anyone would personally care what the deluded in SLC says about anything. In the words of the Savior, they are the blind leading the blind.

I would recommend for any interested person’s perusal the following:

https://onewhoiswatching.wordpress.com/ ... e+sealings

[Niemand]

Screening for adultery.

I feel like you’re absolutely correct. This is frightening to me because there are so many other “sins” that are very serious (like falsely accusing others or stirring up gossip) that could literally ruin those people’s lives & their reputation in & out of the Church, like very often happens in a divorce situation.

There is a lot of gossip that way and I've told people off about it. There was a divorce here a few years ago that made things complicated as many people got drawn into sides. I even had to disabuse a.few folk of the notion that adultery was involved (neither him nor her AFAIK). People jump to conclusions.

Among the former bishops, I have heard of one couple "staying together for the sake of the kids" (their children are now in their twenties and they are still very much married); and another lot who were about to divorce but ten years later are still very much together!!! On the other hand, I am aware of several couples who don't get gossiped about, and put on great fronts, but have undergone marriage counselling.

Money and a simple inability to get along are major drivers of divorce. And what's the other saying? Marry at haste, repent at leisure? The church encourages the former.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I feel like…

WOB2, I stalked the old you here on the forum. Sounds like you’ve had quite the journey the past few years.

[HVDC]

Should this happen to me.

I would have an AI fill it out.

My sins are my business.

Bureaucracies just want all of the blanks filled in.

Honestly though.

I wouldn't care less.

Sir H

[Fred]

A different quirk

What's up with #4 ?

I got full custody of my kids when they were under 3 years old. So this didn't apply to me anyway. But what difference does your financial obligations make in sealing termination? Seems about as important as "Do you own stock in pfizer?"

[HVDC]

That is not entirely true.
They are suspended. They still technically exist. This is demonstrated by the fact that when someone who has been excommunicated is rebaptised, after a qualifying period (usually 1 year), they can have all of their former blessings restored by the simple laying on of hands. No need to be re-ordained to the priesthood or to go through the temple again. The restoration of blessings simply lifts the suspension.

There is no evidence to suggest that someone loses any blessings or priesthood when a group of old men decides that you should be kicked out of the club.

Does God dictate who holds authority, or your local SP?

What do you mean by "group of old men"?
Stake high councils these days are increasingly made up of quite young men, even some YSA.

Who creates the qualifications by which your local leadership judges the necessity for excommunication? A group of very old men. I personally don’t know any YSA high councilmen, or even a SP under 50-60.

I’d also like my question to be addressed; young or not, who dictates which person can hold authority or receive blessings? God, or your local leaders?

I do.

Sir H

[HVDC]

A different quirk

What's up with #4 ?

I got full custody of my kids when they were under 3 years old. So this didn't apply to me anyway. But what difference does your financial obligations make in sealing termination? Seems about as important as "Do you own stock in pfizer?"

503c

Sir H

[h_p]

Can you serve on the high council and be single? We had a guy get divorced and he was released because he wasn't married. TBM as they come.

There are two single guys on my stake's HC. Not sure if they're divorced or not. One of them was in the YSA ward a few years ago, at least, but he may have aged out by now.

[FoxMammaWisdom]

In the later 1980s, my friend's wife started cheating on him and filed for divorce. She married the guy she had been cheating with and soon applied for a temple divorce so she could be sealed to the new suiter. He was only 7 years older than her oldest child. My friend opposed it hoping he could get back together with her. It was granted anyway. He went inactive for a long time because of perceived injustices. He kept his temple covenants.

He has been married to his current wife for 11 years and she wanted to be sealed to him. They applied to be sealed last summer. He received a similar letter, like the one above. He was supposed to detail every sin he had committed since he was released from his original temple sealing in the later 1980s. His wife didn't receive such a letter even though she had been sealed previously. Both of them were angry about him getting such a letter. They spent several months trying to decide if they were going to produce such a letter or just forget the sealing. Somehow, the SP got involved and my friend didn't have to detail his life.

Church doing this stuff reminds me of the Skull and Bones Society making their members do the same thing, and disclose every detail of their sexual encounters.

[Robin Hood]

Stake high councils these days are increasingly made up of quite young men, even some YSA.

Can you serve on the high council and be single? We had a guy get divorced and he was released because he wasn't married. TBM as they come.

His wife is a gem though, we met a few years after this divorce and I know why she left him. There was no questioning church leaders with this dude.

Yes you can.
We have had YSA aged on the HC for the past 5 years.