Will the Lord hold you accountable for how the church spends your tithes?

[Liahona]

I don't think some of you understand the OP question. You feel they are abusing the tithe, yet you continue to pay. Hence you feel it is ok to support a false cause.

I get it. I really do.

Jesus knew what the world would do to Him yet He continued anyways.

It’s not about score keeping. You can’t always “fix” everything along the way.

Judas was part of the 12 and the Lord knew it.

Stop worrying about what others do and reconcile yourself with God. Let Him fight these battles for you.

Christ didn’t support the Sanhedrin.

Yet was found guilty.

Are you willingly to bear the short term injustices for the long term reconciliations?

Christ did.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I don't think some of you understand the OP question. You feel they are abusing the tithe, yet you continue to pay. Hence you feel it is ok to support a false cause.

I get it. I really do.

Jesus knew what the world would do to Him yet He continued anyways.

It’s not about score keeping. You can’t always “fix” everything along the way.

Judas was part of the 12 and the Lord knew it.

Stop worrying about what others do and reconcile yourself with God. Let Him fight these battles for you.

Christ didn’t support the Sanhedrin.

Yet was found guilty.

Are you willingly to bear the short term injustices for the long term reconciliations?

Christ did.

The comparison you are making isn’t even in the same realm of logic.

[ILiveIDieILiveAgain]

Probably two main thoughts to this.
One, just obey - without thinking about it nor questioning it. And please stop pretending that's not exactly how obedience works. When all is said and done, that's how it ends up - just do it without questioning the authority that told you to do it. The underlying assumption is that you go to heaven for being obedient, and, if the ones you paid tithing to use it wrong, they get damned to Hell.
Second, being a wise steward. When it gets to that point, and the Lord asks, What better things could you have done with the money I blessed you with and made you a steward of? What answers are you going to have for that?
And, of course, one could always say they were being a wise steward by obediently paying tithing to the church.

[Liahona]

I get it. I really do.

Jesus knew what the world would do to Him yet He continued anyways.

It’s not about score keeping. You can’t always “fix” everything along the way.

Judas was part of the 12 and the Lord knew it.

Stop worrying about what others do and reconcile yourself with God. Let Him fight these battles for you.

Christ didn’t support the Sanhedrin.

Yet was found guilty.

Are you willingly to bear the short term injustices for the long term reconciliations?

Christ did.

The comparison you are making isn’t even in the same realm of logic.

Said the Pharisees against Jesus. And was found guilty.

[Subcomandante]

Short answer: No.

Long answer: The Lord will not hold you accountable for the decisions of leaders about how to spend the Lord's money. The payer paid in good faith, the leaders decided things in bad faith.

All the punishment goes towards the leaders that act in bad faith.

Even if you feel they abuse the tithes? That's the premise of the original question.

Melchizedek undoubtedly used some of the flocks to finance some of the wars he was fighting, yet Abraham did not ask Melchizedek what he wanted the flocks for. He gave willingly.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Short answer: No.

Long answer: The Lord will not hold you accountable for the decisions of leaders about how to spend the Lord's money. The payer paid in good faith, the leaders decided things in bad faith.

All the punishment goes towards the leaders that act in bad faith.

Even if you feel they abuse the tithes? That's the premise of the original question.

Melchizedek undoubtedly used some of the flocks to finance some of the wars he was fighting, yet Abraham did not ask Melchizedek what he wanted the flocks for. He gave willingly.

Again, you deflected from the original question. If Abraham knew the tithes were used for ill gain or intent, I doubt he would be held unaccountable for supporting evil.

[Brighidara]

Short answer: No.

Long answer: The Lord will not hold you accountable for the decisions of leaders about how to spend the Lord's money. The payer paid in good faith, the leaders decided things in bad faith.

All the punishment goes towards the leaders that act in bad faith.

Could you help me reconcile your words with the LORD’s words through Ezekiel & Joseph Smith?
“And they shall bear the punishment of their iniquity: the punishment of the prophet shall be even as the punishment of him that seeketh unto him; That the house of Israel may go no more astray from me, neither be polluted any more with all their transgressions; but that they may be my people, and I may be their God, saith the Lord God.”
“Every man of the house of Israel, or of the stranger that sojourneth in Israel, that setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to the prophet; I the Lord will answer him that cometh according to the multitude of his idols;
And I will set my face against that man, and will make him a sign and a proverb, and I will cut him off from the midst of my people; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have NOT (footnote in LDS KJV) deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel” Ezekiel 14. (3 Ne 27:9-14 explains when that destruction will be.)
❊❃❊❃❊❃❊
“Prest. J. Smith rose, read the 14th Chap. of Ezekiel— said the Lord had declar’d by the prophet that the people should each one stand for himself and depend on no man or men in that state of corruption of the Jewish church— that righteous persons could only deliver their own souls— app[l]ied it to the present state of the church of Latter-Day Saints— said if the people departed from the Lord, they must fall— ☆★⚝that they were depending on the prophet hence were darkened in their minds⚝★☆ from neglect of themselves— envious toward the innocent, while they afflict the virtuous with their shafts of envy.“
https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper ... te-book/74

[p8riot]

Yes. But like everything else, the Lord will judge us based on the knowledge that we have. There are those who have no clue what the Corporation is doing with tithes and offerings. They faithfully pay their tithing and will be blessed for it. There are others, like myself, who are becoming aware of seemingly corrupt uses of said monies. I covenanted with the Lord to consecrate what I have to the CHURCH for the building up of the KINGDOM OF GOD and to establish ZION. I did NOT covenant to pay to a Corporation nor have said resources diverted to causes and agendas that ultimately fight against Christ, His Kingdom, and Zion. Those who are aware of those going-ons will be held to higher accountability. It is up to us to seek the Lord's direction in how we would fulfill our covenant.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Yes. But like everything else, the Lord will judge us based on the knowledge that we have. There are those who have no clue what the Corporation is doing with tithes and offerings. They faithfully pay their tithing and will be blessed for it. There are others, like myself, who are becoming aware of seemingly corrupt uses of said monies. I covenanted with the Lord to consecrate what I have to the CHURCH for the building up of the KINGDOM OF GOD and to establish ZION. I did NOT covenant to pay to a Corporation nor have said resources diverted to causes and agendas that ultimately fight against Christ, His Kingdom, and Zion. Those who are aware of those going-ons will be held to higher accountability. It is up to us to seek the Lord's direction in how we would fulfill our covenant.

Well said. Yes, the Lord judges us based upon our knowledge and the intent of our heart. I could actually see a scenario where a father could continue to pay in order to keep his family intact if his wife or children have not awakened yet and the the Spirit has moved him to do so.

As far as the covenant made to consecrate all, the only distinction I would make is how you define “the CHURCH”. I see the church as a body of believers and the stewardship of giving falls upon each sovereign individual. Your surplus is not given to church leaders to then be given back to you in whatever portion they deem appropriate. You are given full stewardship of your consecrated efforts.

[Momma J]

God has commanded the payment of tithe

so one must pay it to whichever church

is most true at the time of payment.

The true CHURCH is wherever Christ is... If that is in my heart, then I chose how to pay my tithes as prompted by the HG. To hand the money to an unholy entity would be akin to giving arms to a terrorist. Does the Lord prompt you; after fasting and prayer to send your money to a corporation? If so, then follow the promptings. I cannot say for any other than me.

I give more than 10% in my time and aide to those who are in need than would happen if I send a check to the "church"

[Momma J]

This is an "extreme" example but bear with me.

Suppose I gave tithes to a church in good faith as commanded. Without my knowledge the said church was using collected tithes for evil. For the sake of argument and to clearly state my point, we will say they are paying for the abduction of child sex slaves.

I have no knowledge and am following the law of tithing. I believe I will be blessed on this.

However, down the road I discover the evils that are being done with the tithing. I know without a doubt that I would be punished as complicit if I continue to give my tithes to the church.

The same holds true for lesser sins. If I am aware of evil, small or large. I should not contribute, or I will be judged as if I too am doing the evil.

[Reluctant Watchman]

This is an "extreme" example but bear with me.

Suppose I gave tithes to a church in good faith as commanded. Without my knowledge the said church was using collected tithes for evil. For the sake of argument and to clearly state my point, we will say they are paying for the abduction of child sex slaves.

I have no knowledge and am following the law of tithing. I believe I will be blessed on this.

However, down the road I discover the evils that are being done with the tithing. I know without a doubt that I would be punished as complicit if I continue to give my tithes to the church.

The same holds true for lesser sins. If I am aware of evil, small or large. I should not contribute, or I will be judged as if I too am doing the evil.

Your example may not be so “extreme.”

[jdt]

I believe the Lord will account it a good thing when a person in good faith pays tithing believing it is going to build up his kingdom on the earth.
I believe the Lord will not account it a good thing when a person is deliberately ignorant of whether the organization he pays tithing to is actually building up his kingdom on the earth or not.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I believe the Lord will account it a good thing when a person in good faith pays tithing believing it is going to build up his kingdom on the earth.
I believe the Lord will not account it a good thing when a person is deliberately ignorant of whether the organization he pays tithing to is actually building up his kingdom on the earth or not.

The Lord sees the heart.

But I’m not gonna lie, there’s gotta be some pretty heavy awakenings when we have all things revealed.

[Vision]

Short answer: No.

Long answer: The Lord will not hold you accountable for the decisions of leaders about how to spend the Lord's money. The payer paid in good faith, the leaders decided things in bad faith.

All the punishment goes towards the leaders that act in bad faith.

Even if you feel they abuse the tithes? That's the premise of the original question.

Yes, even if they abuse the tithes. Are the shareholders of a corporation held accountable when the CEO commits fraud? No they are not. As a share holder in the Church God will hold those with decision making ability accountable.

[Brighidara]

Short answer: No.

Long answer: The Lord will not hold you accountable for the decisions of leaders about how to spend the Lord's money. The payer paid in good faith, the leaders decided things in bad faith.

All the punishment goes towards the leaders that act in bad faith.

Even if you feel they abuse the tithes? That's the premise of the original question.

Yes, even if they abuse the tithes. Are the shareholders of a corporation held accountable when the CEO commits fraud? No they are not. As a share holder in the Church God will hold those with decision making ability accountable.

Can you back this by scripture? All I can find is warnings to not trust ANY, even early LDS leaders warning about our very own latter day leaders / drunkards of Ephraim leading us to destruction. Whichever way you look at it, we’ve been warned we mustn’t follow blindly, and truly our accuser will use these warnings (which we’re accountable to study) to convict us lest we repent. Most are asleep drowning in the “all is well…” cauldron, being carefully led with ✺flaxen cords✺ til they are captive:
2 Ne 26:20 And the Gentiles are lifted up in the pride of their eyes, and have stumbled, because of the greatness of their stumbling block, that they have built up many churches; nevertheless, they put down the power and miracles of God, and preach up unto themselves their own wisdom and their own learning, that they may get gain and grind upon the face of the poor.
21 And there are many churches built up which cause envyings, and strifes, and malice.
22 And there are also secret combinations, even as in times of old, according to the combinations of the devil, for he is the founder of all these things; yea, the founder of murder, and works of darkness; yea, and he leadeth them by the neck with a ✺flaxen cord✺, until he bindeth them with his strong cords forever.
23 For behold, my beloved brethren, I say unto you that the Lord God worketh not in darkness.
24 He doeth not anything save it be for the benefit of the world; for he loveth the world, even that he layeth down his own life that he may draw all men unto him.
29 He commandeth that there shall be NO PRIESTCRAFTS; for, behold, priestcrafts are that men preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the welfare of Zion. (Alma 1:12 warns “were priestcraft to be enforced among this people it would PROVE their ENTIRE DESTRUCTION.”)
✯✯✯✯✯✯✯
I see this as part of the crucible to see who the LORD’s wise virgins / tithe of the tithe will be).
JST Mark 9:44 Therefore, let every man stand or fall, by himself, and not for another; or not trusting another.
45 (KJV footnote) And if thy foot (a) cause thee to stumble…
46 And if thine eye which seeth for thee, ✵him that is appointed to watch over thee to show thee light✵, become a transgressor and offend thee, pluck him out.
47 It is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God, with one eye, than having two eyes (both you and the false teacher) to be cast into hell fire.
48 For it is better that thyself should be saved, than to be cast into hell with thy brother, where their worm dieth not, and where the fire is not quenched.
✾✶✾✶✾✶✾
Again, to those who endlessly repeat the monotonous drum roll of “we should just focus on Faith, Repentance and Baptism” I have this reply. Is this not the very essence of faith! Isn’t the lesson from all scripture and every prophet from the beginning to the end that we must trust in God and not in man? I have never seen one revelation provide even a single exception to this rule. From my experience, very few truly understand blind obedience. (he then effectively says: WHY are we not teaching this in class?!?) … Please teach the lessons from Mountain Meadows.
Some unwittingly teach that we should unquestioningly follow every word that comes from the mouth of our Church leaders. Some even taunt it is breaking temple covenants to question Church authority. We have recently heard many of our friends criticize men and women who raised honest concerns regarding the personal integrity and instruction given by a leader. One confidently declared, “If I read a book [by an appointed leader] that taught evolution, I would follow it and God would not punish me for believing it. We can’t go astray following them. God won’t punish us.” Another warned, “It’s breaking your temple covenants to raise concerns with the character, motives or actions of ordained leaders.”
Sadly, these likely well-meaning members have not carefully studied the history of the Church nor the doctrines taught by the scriptures and inspired prophets of God. Some of the men near Mountain Meadows held similar opinions and the consequences still haunt us.
“I told the people in Nauvoo . . . that if they were not Saints at that critical juncture, they ought to repent of their sins, and get the Holy Ghost, and not live another twenty-four hours without the Spirit of revelation within themselves, for who knows but what you are the elect; and you know that false prophets were to arise in the last days, and, if possible, deceive the very elect, and that many false shepherds would come and pretend to be the true shepherds. Now, be sure to get the spirit of revelation, so that you can tell when you hear the true Shepherd’s voice, and know him from a false one; for if you are the elect, it would be a great pity to have you led astray to destruction.
The Lord has given a protective promise to those who desire to not be led astray. President Brigham Young taught that this assurance is given because each Latter-day Saint has the privilege, if they are pure, to receive a personal witness. It is up to them whether they will be led astray or not.
The First Presidency have of right a great influence over this people; and if we should get out of the way and lead this people to destruction, what a pity it would be! How can you know whether we lead you correctly or not? Can you know by any other power than that of the Holy Ghost? I have uniformly exhorted the people to obtain this living witness each for themselves; then no man on earth can lead them astray.”
https://josephsmithfoundation.org/paper ... -question/

✺“It’s clear from the context that the “flaxen cord” described here was not strong. I envision a person with a very thin thread wrapped around their neck while Satan holds the end of the thread and gently pulls them. At any moment, the person could easily break the thread and pull away. But if they choose not to, if they decide to move the direction the devil is gently nudging them, then the strands grow thicker and harder to escape, until the person is truly captive.
How does that happen in our lives? We make a decision that seems small and harmless, and we justify that decision by calling it an exception or by reasoning that it is too small to matter. Then, we make another decision, and another. The small infractions become larger, and the exception becomes the rule.”
https://bookofmormonstudynotes.blog/202 ... ephi-2622/

[Reluctant Watchman]

Short answer: No.

Long answer: The Lord will not hold you accountable for the decisions of leaders about how to spend the Lord's money. The payer paid in good faith, the leaders decided things in bad faith.

All the punishment goes towards the leaders that act in bad faith.

Even if you feel they abuse the tithes? That's the premise of the original question.

Yes, even if they abuse the tithes. Are the shareholders of a corporation held accountable when the CEO commits fraud? No they are not. As a share holder in the Church God will hold those with decision making ability accountable.

I am not a shareholder in a corporation, yet that is exactly what the church has become.

[Momma J]

Short answer: No.

Long answer: The Lord will not hold you accountable for the decisions of leaders about how to spend the Lord's money. The payer paid in good faith, the leaders decided things in bad faith.

All the punishment goes towards the leaders that act in bad faith.

Even if you feel they abuse the tithes? That's the premise of the original question.

Yes, even if they abuse the tithes. Are the shareholders of a corporation held accountable when the CEO commits fraud? No they are not. As a share holder in the Church God will hold those with decision making ability accountable.

To use your analogy. I am not complicit if I am unaware of their fraudulent activity. However, if I become aware, it is prudent that I sell my shares and distance myself from the corporation. Whether or not the courts here on earth deem me guilty, the courts above are the only one I need to appease with righteous intent.

[Vision]

Can you back this by scripture?

I can't seem to find the scripture that absolves us of paying tithing because the leaders use it improperly, nor the one that makes it conditional on wether I am obligated to pay tithing based upon it's ultimate destination.

Can you show me please?

[BeNotDeceived]

God has commanded the payment of tithe

so one must pay it to whichever church

is most true at the time of payment.

The true CHURCH is wherever Christ is... If that is in my heart, then I chose how to pay my tithes as prompted by the HG. To hand the money to an unholy entity would be akin to giving arms to a terrorist. Does the Lord prompt you; after fasting and prayer to send your money to a corporation? If so, then follow the promptings. I cannot say for any other than me.

I give more than 10% in my time and aide to those who are in need than would happen if I send a check to the "church"

I spend my tithes on a church and a corporation of my own making. The church is in Jesus’ name as per march8miracle.org and the corporation was founded to further things represented by the purple circle.

[Original_Intent]

Can you back this by scripture?

I can't seem to find the scripture that absolves us of paying tithing because the leaders use it improperly, nor the one that makes it conditional on wether I am obligated to pay tithing based upon it's ultimate destination.

Can you show me please?

You are looking for the scriptures of the church to give you an out on paying THEM?

[Shawn Henry]

Short answer: No.

Long answer: The Lord will not hold you accountable for the decisions of leaders about how to spend the Lord's money. The payer paid in good faith, the leaders decided things in bad faith.

All the punishment goes towards the leaders that act in bad faith.

And when that bad faith continues indefinitely? Can you keep saying it's on them after you have supported the system for decades? Doesn't the law of agency dictate that you act?

It's interesting how many in this thread have supported paying tithing how the church says and none of them has stood up for how the Lord said to pay tithing in the D&C. Nobody cares that the Lord's instructions are being violated.

[LDS Physician]

Short answer: No.

Long answer: The Lord will not hold you accountable for the decisions of leaders about how to spend the Lord's money. The payer paid in good faith, the leaders decided things in bad faith.

All the punishment goes towards the leaders that act in bad faith.

Even if you feel they abuse the tithes? That's the premise of the original question.

Yes, even if they abuse the tithes. Are the shareholders of a corporation held accountable when the CEO commits fraud? No they are not. As a share holder in the Church God will hold those with decision making ability accountable.

When you know the CEO is committing fraud and you can see how he's doing it, then if you continue to support him financially, you are culpable.

[Vision]

Can you back this by scripture?

I can't seem to find the scripture that absolves us of paying tithing because the leaders use it improperly, nor the one that makes it conditional on wether I am obligated to pay tithing based upon it's ultimate destination.

Can you show me please?

You are looking for the scriptures of the church to give you an out on paying THEM?

No, I was responding to Brighidara's post where he asked me for scriptural reference.

[BeNotDeceived]

Can you back this by scripture?

I can't seem to find the scripture that absolves us of paying tithing because the leaders use it improperly, nor the one that makes it conditional on wether I am obligated to pay tithing based upon it's ultimate destination.

Can you show me please?

You are looking for the scriptures of the church to give you an out on paying THEM?

If you’re talking to yourself,

you must be having a dilemma

said Hooty the .