Why I’m Leaving the Mormon Church

[Brighidara]

It’s actually moot whether it be a true or a false prophet, whether Isaiah, Joseph, Nephi, Jones, Nelson… all become idols if we follow / trust in them, they need only point an idolatrous people to Christ and cry repentance. Done.
What do you think a true prophet would answer if asked “would you ever lead anyone astray?”:
(A) “Oh no! Some have said I’d be taken out, and I want to stay here!” OR
(B) “I’m just a messenger sent to point you to Christ and cry repentance lest you be destroyed. I’ll likely be cast out or martyred for this.”
Which one would you think is a true prophet?

Ezekiel 14:4 Therefore speak unto them, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Every man of the house of Israel that setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and COMETH TO THE PROPHET; I the Lord will answer him that cometh according to the multitude of his idols;
5 That I may take the house of Israel in their own heart, because they are all estranged from me through their idols.
6 ¶ Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord God; Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols; and turn away your faces from all your abominations.
7 For every one of the house of Israel, or of the stranger that sojourneth in Israel, which separateth himself from me, and setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to a prophet to enquire of him concerning me; I the Lord will answer him by myself:
8 And I will set my face against that man, and will make him a sign and a proverb, and I will cut him off from the midst of my people; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have *NOT* (JST) deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel (3 Ne 27 elaborates on when).
10 And they shall bear the punishment of their iniquity: the punishment of the prophet shall be even as the punishment of HIM THAT SEEKETH UNTO HIM;
11 That the house of Israel may GO NO MORE ASTRAY from me, NEITHER BE POLLUTED any more with ALL THEIR TRANSGRESSIONS; but that they may be my people, and I may be their God saith the Lord God.
“Prest. Smith rose; read the 14th Chap. of Ezekiel—Said the Lord had declared by the prophet that the people should each one stand for himself and depend on no man or men in that state of corruption of the Jewish Church—that righteous persons could only deliver their own souls—applied it to the present state of the church of Latter Day Saints—Said if the people departed from the Lord, they must fall—that they were depending on the prophet hence were darkened in their minds from neglect of themselves [2]—envious toward the innocent, while they afflict the virtuous with their shafts of envy.”
3 Ne 27:10 And if it so be that the church is built upon my gospel then will the Father show forth his own works in it.
11 But if it be not built upon my gospel, and is built upon the works of men, or upon the works of the devil, verily I say unto you they have joy in their works FOR A SEASON, and by and by the END COMETH, and they are HEWN DoWN and cast into the fire, from whence there is no return.
12 For their works do follow them, for it is because of their works that they are hewn down; therefore remember the things that I have told you.
13 Behold I have given unto you my gospel, and this is the gospel which I have given unto you—that I came into the world to do the will of my Father, because my Father sent me.
14 And my Father sent me that I might be lifted up upon the cross; and after that I had been lifted up upon the cross, that I might draw all men unto me, that as I have been lifted up by men even so should men be lifted up by the Father, to stand before me, to be judged of their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil—
https://youtu.be/6BavQ7i-vh0?t=79

[Reluctant Watchman]

Good for you. Do you want a ribbon for bravery or something? At any rate it's a non sequitur. What you choose to do does not absolve them of their actions.

Their absolution is none of your concern. You didn't call them, God did. Only God can condemn them.

Oh, the assumptions we make. This is why we talk about BY and the succession problem. The dude had skeletons man. Lots of 'em.

Nothing I haven't heard a million times I guarantee it.

A million? You need a new hobby. That’s gotta be depressing.

[Reluctant Watchman]

It’s actually moot whether it be a true or a false prophet, whether Isaiah, Joseph, Nephi, Jones, Nelson… all become idols if we follow / trust in them, they need only point an idolatrous people to Christ and cry repentance. Done.
What do you think a true prophet would answer if asked “would you ever lead anyone astray?”:
(A) “Oh no! Some have said I’d be taken out, and I want to stay here!” OR
(B) “I’m just a messenger sent to point you to Christ and cry repentance lest you be destroyed. I’ll likely be cast out or martyred for this.”
Which one would you think is a true prophet?

Ezekiel 14:4 Therefore speak unto them, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Every man of the house of Israel that setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and COMETH TO THE PROPHET; I the Lord will answer him that cometh according to the multitude of his idols;
5 That I may take the house of Israel in their own heart, because they are all estranged from me through their idols.
6 ¶ Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord God; Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols; and turn away your faces from all your abominations.
7 For every one of the house of Israel, or of the stranger that sojourneth in Israel, which separateth himself from me, and setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to a prophet to enquire of him concerning me; I the Lord will answer him by myself:
8 And I will set my face against that man, and will make him a sign and a proverb, and I will cut him off from the midst of my people; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have *NOT* (JST) deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel (3 Ne 27 elaborates on when).
10 And they shall bear the punishment of their iniquity: the punishment of the prophet shall be even as the punishment of HIM THAT SEEKETH UNTO HIM;
11 That the house of Israel may GO NO MORE ASTRAY from me, NEITHER BE POLLUTED any more with ALL THEIR TRANSGRESSIONS; but that they may be my people, and I may be their God saith the Lord God.
“Prest. Smith rose; read the 14th Chap. of Ezekiel—Said the Lord had declared by the prophet that the people should each one stand for himself and depend on no man or men in that state of corruption of the Jewish Church—that righteous persons could only deliver their own souls—applied it to the present state of the church of Latter Day Saints—Said if the people departed from the Lord, they must fall—that they were depending on the prophet hence were darkened in their minds from neglect of themselves [2]—envious toward the innocent, while they afflict the virtuous with their shafts of envy.”
3 Ne 27:10 And if it so be that the church is built upon my gospel then will the Father show forth his own works in it.
11 But if it be not built upon my gospel, and is built upon the works of men, or upon the works of the devil, verily I say unto you they have joy in their works FOR A SEASON, and by and by the END COMETH, and they are HEWN DoWN and cast into the fire, from whence there is no return.
12 For their works do follow them, for it is because of their works that they are hewn down; therefore remember the things that I have told you.
13 Behold I have given unto you my gospel, and this is the gospel which I have given unto you—that I came into the world to do the will of my Father, because my Father sent me.
14 And my Father sent me that I might be lifted up upon the cross; and after that I had been lifted up upon the cross, that I might draw all men unto me, that as I have been lifted up by men even so should men be lifted up by the Father, to stand before me, to be judged of their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil—
https://youtu.be/6BavQ7i-vh0?t=79

I think a true prophet would say, “Don’t trust anything I say unless you receive a witness of the Holy Ghost.”

Hmm… where have I heard that one before?

[TheDuke]

Duke, quick question. How would you feel if "the Lord's anointed" repeatedly told you that they can never lead you astray. They also tell you that when Nelson speaks, he speaks for the Lord. And then he tells you that you can place your "complete trust" in all of these men. How would you feel?

Simple, unless the spirit says otherwise, I would ignore him/them. I would do what the scriptures say, try their statements. As you know I am not in alignment on their vax stance or COVID policies, etc.... So, I ignore them, like I would have Eli of old and other prophets that seemed right on at times and out of the loop on others, like many of the contradictory teachings of Paul vs. James, etc...

My complaint stands. Disagreeing with anyone is free action, but claiming many deaths is just BS. H_P says it is documented. Such BS, I have asked many times for that documentation and have NONE. Not one name, let alone MILLIONS.

Extremes by both sides are not of the spirit. Truth cannot be found by making lies larger. Though Biden and co. try.

I've been on this path since at least the Salamander letter, perhaps PH statement on blacks and PH, and even SWK's take on truth when he re-wrote J Golden's talks and called them the originals and published the book on them (1974 while I was working at BYU printing office). Haven't fully trusted anyone since. but have been nurtured at times along the way, and the Lord has blessed me for pressing on.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Duke, quick question. How would you feel if "the Lord's anointed" repeatedly told you that they can never lead you astray. They also tell you that when Nelson speaks, he speaks for the Lord. And then he tells you that you can place your "complete trust" in all of these men. How would you feel?

Simple, unless the spirit says otherwise, I would ignore him/them. I would do what the scriptures say, try their statements. As you know I am not in alignment on their vax stance or COVID policies, etc.... So, I ignore them, like I would have Eli of old and other prophets that seemed right on at times and out of the loop on others, like many of the contradictory teachings of Paul vs. James, etc...

My complaint stands. Disagreeing with anyone is free action, but claiming many deaths is just BS. H_P says it is documented. Such BS, I have asked many times for that documentation and have NONE. Not one name, let alone MILLIONS.

Extremes by both sides are not of the spirit. Truth cannot be found by making lies larger. Though Biden and co. try.

I've been on this path since at least the Salamander letter, perhaps PH statement on blacks and PH, and even SWK's take on truth when he re-wrote J Golden's talks and called them the originals and published the book on them (1974 while I was working at BYU printing office). Haven't fully trusted anyone since. but have been nurtured at times along the way, and the Lord has blessed me for pressing on.

Nice creative editing on my comment. Next time try answering the question the way I wrote it and not how you want to craft your own narrative.

[h_p]

My complaint stands. Disagreeing with anyone is free action, but claiming many deaths is just BS. H_P says it is documented. Such BS, I have asked many times for that documentation and have NONE. Not one name, let alone MILLIONS.

https://petermcculloughmd.substack.com/ ... r-covid-19
https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... 129-5#Sec3

My daughter-in-law's uncle died from it. A work colleague's sister died from it. My sister was injured by it. Another sibling's boss at work got myocarditis from it. Fellow ward member's cousin had a stroke after getting the shot.

But I'm sure you'll just brush these off like you've done all the other reports people have given on this forum.

[RosyPosy]

Duke, quick question. How would you feel if "the Lord's anointed" repeatedly told you that they can never lead you astray. They also tell you that when Nelson speaks, he speaks for the Lord. And then he tells you that you can place your "complete trust" in all of these men. How would you feel?

Simple, unless the spirit says otherwise, I would ignore him/them. I would do what the scriptures say, try their statements. As you know I am not in alignment on their vax stance or COVID policies, etc.... So, I ignore them, like I would have Eli of old and other prophets that seemed right on at times and out of the loop on others, like many of the contradictory teachings of Paul vs. James, etc...

My complaint stands. Disagreeing with anyone is free action, but claiming many deaths is just BS. H_P says it is documented. Such BS, I have asked many times for that documentation and have NONE. Not one name, let alone MILLIONS.

Extremes by both sides are not of the spirit. Truth cannot be found by making lies larger. Though Biden and co. try.

I've been on this path since at least the Salamander letter, perhaps PH statement on blacks and PH, and even SWK's take on truth when he re-wrote J Golden's talks and called them the originals and published the book on them (1974 while I was working at BYU printing office). Haven't fully trusted anyone since. but have been nurtured at times along the way, and the Lord has blessed me for pressing on.

Nice creative editing on my comment. Next time try answering the question the way I wrote it and not how you want to craft your own narrative.

I know I'm new to the forum. But I noticed you two go back and forth between each other.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I know I'm new to the forum. But I noticed you two go back and forth between each other.

I have a soft spot in my heart for Duke.

[NowWhat]

Why leave if we have doubts about the leadership? Because they are not who they say they are. They don't prophesy, see or reveal, IMO. I could maybe deal with that if they weren't pushing the "Follow the prophet" thing (and in our classes, the teacher often adds, "...with exactness!") And if it weren't for, "They will never lead us astray." I'm on the fence about leaving.

[Being There]

BS. Jesus said those that love him, keep his commandments are "Israel" or seed of Jacob if you will. So, to say any follower of Jesus isn't Israel just means you don't understand the concept of Israel post-Jesus administration. so, any follower can claim "Israel" or any tribe as they wish and if you say otherwise, you're saying Jesus was wrong.

I will agree, however, that the term gentile, at least in the BoM, seems to refer to most of those in the world today that are not "Asians" or what were called "heaven nations" when it was ok to do so. So, NA, most of Europe, part of Africa, Aussies, etc... all fit "gentile" title.

So, you can be a gentile and of "Israel" at the same time, as most of us from JS on down are.

BS is right.
for now, you're still called a Gentile.

I think a few here need to be educated on WHO are Gentiles and who are of the House of Israel;
according to the scriptures.

I'm sure like most - you don't care about finding the truth and won't even watch the video - or care what the scriptures say,
but will just give your own opinion.


I think you need to take a closer look at just WHO the Book of Mormon is referring to
when they say "Gentiles"

this is probably the best video I've ever seen
proving we - the LDS church are indeed the Gentiles spoken of in the scriptures.

[Being There]

Why leave if we have doubts about the leadership? Because they are not who they say they are. They don't prophesy, see or reveal, IMO. I could maybe deal with that if they weren't pushing the "Follow the prophet" thing (and in our classes, the teacher often adds, "...with exactness!" And if it weren't for, "They will never lead us astray." I'm on the fence about leaving.

true.


but also If they are not who they say they are,
how could you just have "doubts".

It's black and white.

" Jesus said "He that is not with me is against me"

is the church with Jesus ? NO.
is Jesus with the church ? NO.

[Being There]

There's always something done by the leaders of the Church that can be used as an excuse to leave the Church Christ established.
There's always a breaking point. I think God designs circumstances that way.
Estimates put the Kirtland Safety Society Apostasy around 10-15% of the Church.
Fortunately the Covid Vaccine Apostasy of 2021 won't even be a footnote.

So you're saying God intentionally told his prophet to lie to people and coerce them into doing something harmful, just so he could weed out the ones who aren't willing to continue listening to that?

You realize this is indistinguishable from a death cult, don't you?

Are you saying God intentionally told Joseph to start a bank that would fail and cost members a lot of money?
Are you saying God intentionally told Joseph to attempt to sell the copyright to the Book of Mormon knowing he would fail?
Are you saying God relented and gave Joseph permission to give Harris the 116 pages knowing they would be "lost"?

No, I'm pointing out that just because a Prophet tells you something that you disagree with, even thinking it was from God, even something that ends up being bad, does NOT mean they've lost the authority as God's spokesperson. All Prophets make mistakes, get things wrong, and even occasionally attribute things to God that aren't.
Find me a prophet that didn't.

Even IF President Nelson encouraged the vaccine, even if he said incorrectly it was a blessing from God, even if he was wrong, please tell me why on earth that's justification for leaving the Church?

lol.
well... you've heard it folks.
SMH
what else even needs to be said.

the "even if"
TBM (or church employees) that will try to justify everything and anything their false prophet does
and would follow him right off a cliff.

"even if your false prophet asked you to be Good Global Citizens,
and join with these secret combinations - and get their kill shot -
that's no justification for leaving the Church"
lol.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Why leave if we have doubts about the leadership? Because they are not who they say they are. They don't prophesy, see or reveal, IMO. I could maybe deal with that if they weren't pushing the "Follow the prophet" thing (and in our classes, the teacher often adds, "...with exactness!" And if it weren't for, "They will never lead us astray." I'm on the fence about leaving.

For me, it comes down to the most basic fundamental spiritual teaching of all, how God speaks to us through the Holy Ghost. Church leaders from the time of BY have taught (as you noted) that certain men can never lead us astray. That literally makes them a lesser (false) god(s). They are literally breaking the first commandment.

[h_p]

Why leave if we have doubts about the leadership? Because they are not who they say they are. They don't prophesy, see or reveal, IMO. I could maybe deal with that if they weren't pushing the "Follow the prophet" thing (and in our classes, the teacher often adds, "...with exactness!" And if it weren't for, "They will never lead us astray." I'm on the fence about leaving.

Well, they have these "keys" you know. That's what distinguishes them from everybody else. The keys. Even if they're completely wrong, even if obeying them causes your own death, or puts your child in a pine box, they've got the keys, so don't you dare even bring it up. Even if they claim God himself spoke to them in an audible voice and what they said turned out to be a giant farce, just shut up and keep parroting, "they have the keys, we must obey" like a bunch of mindless zombies.

The lack of thinking that makes you a perfect target for every charlatan, shyster, schemer and villain is what we aspire to. That's the best kind of people in God's eyes, apparently.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Why leave if we have doubts about the leadership? Because they are not who they say they are. They don't prophesy, see or reveal, IMO. I could maybe deal with that if they weren't pushing the "Follow the prophet" thing (and in our classes, the teacher often adds, "...with exactness!" And if it weren't for, "They will never lead us astray." I'm on the fence about leaving.

Well, they have these "keys" you know. That's what distinguishes them from everybody else. The keys. Even if they're completely wrong, even if obeying them causes your own death, or puts your child in a pine box, they've got the keys, so don't you dare even bring it up. Even if they claim God himself spoke to them in an audible voice and what they said turned out to be a giant farce, just shut up and keep parroting, "they have the keys, we must obey" like a bunch of mindless zombies.

The lack of thinking that makes you a perfect target for every charlatan, shyster, schemer and villain is what we aspire to. That's the best kind of people in God's eyes, apparently.

To the average member of the church this would come off as extremely sarcastic. They wouldn’t believe it. But it is true. I simply questioned the save and effective claims of the jab to my SP and he called me to repentance for calling the PSRs “liars and deceivers.” I said nothing of the sort, I only challenged the claim that the shot wasn’t what we thought it was. My intentions were to help reduce suffering. But no, oh no, I was challenging God’s authorized mouthpiece on this earth. I still can’t believe this is where some church leaders are.

[h_p]

"Warren Parrish, who had been an officer in the bank and had apostatized from the Church, made this statement: "I have listened to him [i.e. Smith] with feelings of no ordinary kind, when he declared that the AUDIBLE VOICE OF GOD, INSTRUCTED HIM TO ESTABLISH A BANKING-ANTI BANKING INSTITUTION, who like Aaron's rod SHALL SWALLOW UP ALL OTHER BANKS (the Bank of Monroe excepted,) and grow and flourish and spread from the rivers to the ends of the earth, and survive when all others should be laid in ruins." (Painesville Republican, February 22, 1838, as quoted in Conflict at Kirtland, page 297)

You're using this to justify Nelson's BS, but how do you know that Parrish wasn't lying?

Parrish wasn't the only one saying it. Wilford Woodruff recorded it in his journal, before the bank failed:

Wilford Woodruff, who remained true to the Church and became the fourth President, confirmed the fact that Joseph Smith claimed to have a revelation concerning the bank. Under the date of January 6, 1837, he recorded the following in his journal: "I also herd [sic] President Joseph Smith, jr., declare in the presence of F. Williams, D. Whitmer, S. Smith, W. Parrish, and others in the Deposit office that HE HAD RECEIVED THAT MORNING THE WORD OF THE LORD UPON THE SUBJECT OF THE KIRTLAND SAFETY SOCIETY. He was alone in a room by himself and he had not only [heard] the voice of the Spirit upon the Subject but even an AUDIBLE VOICE. He did not tell us at that time what the Lord said upon the subject but remarked that if we would give heed to the commandments the Lord had given this morning all would be well." ("Wilford Woodruff's Journal," January 6, 1837, as quoted in Conflict at Kirtland, page 296)

Here's the image of the journal page, courtesy of the church, if anybody doubts the accuracy: https://catalog.churchofjesuschrist.org ... 8?lang=eng

Funny, the church never mentions any of this in their narrative.

[JandD6572]

so, many weeks ago, I sent a letter to our ward bishop, requesting my name be removed from church records. You would think from the small ward I belong to here back east, someone would have maybe asked why, but to no surprise. there was no response from the local leadership, no curiosity, and no questions. yesterday, when I came home from work, I found I had received a letter from the church administration that my request is accepted and being processed. You belong to no click, march to the beat of a different drummer, there is no care in the world if you walk away from the Mormon faith. Not surprised thought. But I feel free and a great burden lifted.

[Niemand]

My complaint stands. Disagreeing with anyone is free action, but claiming many deaths is just BS. H_P says it is documented. Such BS, I have asked many times for that documentation and have NONE. Not one name, let alone MILLIONS.

https://petermcculloughmd.substack.com/ ... r-covid-19
https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... 129-5#Sec3

My daughter-in-law's uncle died from it. A work colleague's sister died from it. My sister was injured by it. Another sibling's boss at work got myocarditis from it. Fellow ward member's cousin had a stroke after getting the shot.

But I'm sure you'll just brush these off like you've done all the other reports people have given on this forum.

It's all "anecdotal" until it happens to you. Then you're just a bit of "correlation" not being "causation". But you're still sick.

[BroJones]

I trust the Lord to make changes in his church Leadership ship as neede d. I believe that is the Lord's stewardship not mine.
Doctrine and Covenants section 112 of also 93 and others.

[Reluctant Watchman]

so, many weeks ago, I sent a letter to our ward bishop, requesting my name be removed from church records. You would think from the small ward I belong to here back east, someone would have maybe asked why, but to no surprise. there was no response from the local leadership, no curiosity, and no questions. yesterday, when I came home from work, I found I had received a letter from the church administration that my request is accepted and being processed. You belong to no click, march to the beat of a different drummer, there is no care in the world if you walk away from the Mormon faith. Not surprised thought. But I feel free and a great burden lifted.

Thanks for sharing. I am happy that you’ve found freedom and a burden lifted.

I can’t help but think that any true student of scripture and disciple of Christ will find some things very oppressive w/in the LDS church. I cannot think of any way around it. That’s how blatantly obvious the teachings and traditions in the church have become. When they teach the literal opposite of what Christ taught, this has to at minimum cause confusion and be somewhat of a burden.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I trust the Lord to make changes in his church Leadership ship as neede d. I believe that is the Lord's stewardship not mine.
Doctrine and Covenants section 112 of also 93 and others.

There are plenty of passages in the scriptures that teach what the Lord will do with “his church leadership.” And yes, in the end, it is His stewardship. But that doesn’t mean that we continue our association with sin and wickedness. And to be clear, that is exactly what it is. The “cannot lead astray” and “trust us completely” mantras are anti-Christian philosophies that break the first of ten commandments, making of themselves lesser gods, regardless of how kind and gentle they may appear.

Remember Matthew 7 and how the Lord invited us to discern the fruits of prophets in the last days? A wolf wears all the vestiges of a sheep, and is almost completely indistinguishable from another believer. But by their fruits we shall know them. A cunning and deceptive person will show their good fruits and hide their bad fruits. Kind of like the absolute lack of transparency w/ sacred tithes, or other nefarious and hidden actions by the leaders. Simply the contradictions in doctrine from the scriptures should cause any knowledgeable disciple to pause with great concern.

[JandD6572]

I trust the Lord to make changes in his church Leadership ship as neede d. I believe that is the Lord's stewardship not mine.
Doctrine and Covenants section 112 of also 93 and others.

There are plenty of passages in the scriptures that teach what the Lord will do with “his church leadership.” And yes, in the end, it is His stewardship. But that doesn’t mean that we continue our association with sin and wickedness. And to be clear, that is exactly what it is. The “cannot lead astray” and “trust us completely” mantras are anti-Christian philosophies that break the first of ten commandments, making of themselves lesser gods, regardless of how kind and gentle they may appear.

Remember Matthew 7 and how the Lord invited us to discern the fruits of prophets in the last days? A wolf wears all the vestiges of a sheep, and is almost completely indistinguishable from another believer. But by their fruits we shall know them. A cunning and deceptive person will show their good fruits and hide their bad fruits. Kind of like the absolute lack of transparency w/ sacred tithes, or other nefarious and hidden actions by the leaders. Simply the contradictions in doctrine from the scriptures should cause any knowledgeable disciple to pause with great concern.

The contradictions, and a God that seemingly keeps changing his mind was the two top hitters for me, but I have a stash of reasonings why I left.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Thanks to a little encouragement from JandD6572, I have written the initial draft of my resignation letter. Boy, this is gonna be interesting when I visit w/ my bishop. It’s not finished yet and I still have a lot of fasting and prayer that will precede any definitive action. I do know that many church leaders will see my words as prideful. So be it.

[h_p]

I trust the Lord to make changes in his church Leadership ship as neede d. I believe that is the Lord's stewardship not mine.
Doctrine and Covenants section 112 of also 93 and others.

There are plenty of passages in the scriptures that teach what the Lord will do with “his church leadership.” And yes, in the end, it is His stewardship.

There's certainly no other mechanism in the LDS church for correction, since it's basically a 1-man dictatorship. Your only options are 1) their way, 2) the highway.

Remember Matthew 7 and how the Lord invited us to discern the fruits of prophets in the last days? A wolf wears all the vestiges of a sheep, and is almost completely indistinguishable from another believer. But by their fruits we shall know them.

Which is right in line with Isaiah's "Test of the Prophet," as I call it, in Isaiah 41:

Produce your cause, saith the Lord; bring forth your strong reasons, saith the King of Jacob.

Let them bring them forth, and shew us what shall happen: let them shew the former things, what they be, that we may consider them, and know the latter end of them; or declare us things for to come.

Shew the things that are to come hereafter, that we may know that ye are gods: yea, do good, or do evil, that we may be dismayed, and behold it together.

Behold, ye are of nothing, and your work of nought: an abomination is he that chooseth you.

Demanding they put up or shut up is doctrinal.