Can Christians support the death penalty?

[NeveR]

I've just been watching a documentary about the death penalty in Ohio. It featured one woman whose daughter was murdered by a low IQ guy, but who is campaigning against the death penalty in order to be able to move on & find forgiveness and closure.

Seems to me this is a profoundly Christian response. And this led me to ask - can we, as Christians, ever justify supporting the death penalty?

Is it Christian to endorse murder under any circs?

[nightlight]

mur·der
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noun
the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.
"the stabbing murder of an off-Broadway producer"
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verb
kill (someone) unlawfully and with premeditation.

[Fred]

God supports the death penalty. He has a real bad dude called the avenging angel that might kill a whole planet's population at once except for a boat load with animals. He might even kill all of the first born, sinless or not, unless one paints their door frame with blood on the right day.

If it's good enough for God. It's good enough for me.

[technomagus]

I used to strongly support the death penalty. As I got older I realized that the level of corruption in our local, state and federal governments is off the charts and anyone can get railroaded. I don't think the death penalty is appropriate anymore. Life incarceration is enough.

[onefour1]

The choices are too narrow to vote. I can think of instances where a person may kill another yet not deserve to have his life taken. Self Defense is the primary case that comes to mind. Did God ever sanction the death penalty?

Leviticus 20:10, 13
10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man’s wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

[Silver Pie]

I voted yes, but the options are too black and white.
Someone who plans in advance to kill someone should receive the death penalty.
Serial killers and serial rapists should receive the death penalty.
Child molesters/rapists should receive the death penalty.

This is for the protection of society, for the protection of those who the murderer has not yet tried to kill or rape.

There is involuntary manslaughter, where the perpetrator didn't intend to kill the victim.
There are accidents where no actual murder happened.

[JLHPROF]

The early Church prophets did.

[Fred]

There are plenty of good reasons for the death penalty. Not just murder. Treason for instance. How about funding the Wuhan Lab for gain of function? What about any congressmen or women that allow a law to stand that infringes on the second amendment. This could include members of the Supreme Court. What about a city or county infringing on private property rights? Is a mere $120 million in cash enough to compensate? Probably not. What about a teacher telling a child there are more than 2 genders? Attempting to destroy the mind of a child should at least consider killing the perpetrator. What about creating fake evidence in order to obtain a FISA warrant? How about a police officer that pulls a car over without a warrant or probable cause that a crime has been committed?

Death penalties should be administered after due process. Not in the heat of the moment.

[farmerchick]

the death penalty is controversial for those who view things thru a gray lens. The criminals beg for mercy after creating mayhem....the court systems flounders to meet out appropriate judgement for beginner criminals allowing them to escape justice for lesser crimes allowing for more criminal behavior without consequences....and then we wonder why so many violent offenders are running around everywhere...we now have poverty as a mitigating factor for many crimes in some cities..we don't even prosecute for property crimes. Vigil anti justice is frowned upon and is criminal but where is the justice for those who have been wronged? So basically when someone who has committed a serious crime like murder gets convicted, we are just supposed to say as a society that we will now take care of this person for the rest of their natural life with our tax dollars...society will be responsible for all their physical needs while they sit in incarceration living very limited productive lives.....what is the point of that? What value does a serial criminal murderer or someone who has been convicted of being criminally insane, who will never recover,, really have in society? They will never be free again and we have to pay for all their necessities. I don't think it's cruel to allow the state to punish convicted murderers who have had due process and are proven guilty by their peers to be put to death. The murderer who has killed multiple people can never repay their debt anyway...and they only have one life to give.....whether they truly repent of the act or not is really not an issue to me, as I believe that God will ultimately allow justice to be served.....without the death penalty what is the deterrent for people to not kill others? as we move to a more secular society the biblical teachings we are all familiar with and that are written into our law may be removed...I think it is a Christian thing to have the death penalty as it may deter some from acting upon their darkest impulses. Of course death penalty cases only include the most heinous of murderers....so people who are convicted of lesser crimes still won't actually pay a life for a life. What good did it do for Charlie Manson to be held for forty years behind bars? I mean all he did was exude evil to all he was around. He probably did heinous crimes inside the prison system that the public has no idea about....what about Jeffrey Dahmer? What value do these types of psychopath killers have that we as a society decide we want to provide everything they need behind bars?

[Silver Pie]

the death penalty is controversial for those who view things thru a gray lens. The criminals beg for mercy after creating mayhem....the court systems flounders to meet out appropriate judgement for beginner criminals allowing them to escape justice for lesser crimes allowing for more criminal behavior without consequences....and then we wonder why so many violent offenders are running around everywhere...we now have poverty as a mitigating factor for many crimes in some cities..we don't even prosecute for property crimes. Vigil anti justice is frowned upon and is criminal but where is the justice for those who have been wronged? So basically when someone who has committed a serious crime like murder gets convicted, we are just supposed to say as a society that we will now take care of this person for the rest of their natural life with our tax dollars...society will be responsible for all their physical needs while they sit in incarceration living very limited productive lives.....what is the point of that? What value does a serial criminal murderer or someone who has been convicted of being criminally insane, who will never recover,, really have in society? They will never be free again and we have to pay for all their necessities. I don't think it's cruel to allow the state to punish convicted murderers who have had due process and are proven guilty by their peers to be put to death. The murderer who has killed multiple people can never repay their debt anyway...and they only have one life to give.....whether they truly repent of the act or not is really not an issue to me, as I believe that God will ultimately allow justice to be served.....without the death penalty what is the deterrent for people to not kill others? as we move to a more secular society the biblical teachings we are all familiar with and that are written into our law may be removed...I think it is a Christian thing to have the death penalty as it may deter some from acting upon their darkest impulses. Of course death penalty cases only include the most heinous of murderers....so people who are convicted of lesser crimes still won't actually pay a life for a life. What good did it do for Charlie Manson to be held for forty years behind bars? I mean all he did was exude evil to all he was around. He probably did heinous crimes inside the prison system that the public has no idea about....what about Jeffrey Dahmer? What value do these types of psychopath killers have that we as a society decide we want to provide everything they need behind bars?

Right.
And I think it's better to give someone back to God who is such a danger to society.

Which is better, putting someone in a cage for 50 years or giving them back to God?

[Silver Pie]

I watched a YouTube video about a murderer who had turned to God during prison. I watched it out of morbid curiosity about what he'd done. Turned out his ex-wife's boyfriend sexually molested their son. The courts did a hand-slap, apparently, and the boy's father was furious. Went over and sent the guy to his maker. Him, I would not give the death penalty to, nor years in the pen even though that kind of rage is not a good thing at all. The pedo couldn't hurt that boy again, nor any other child. In that sense, the man did society a service.

[MikeMaillet]

I voted "no." Adam (which is many) was given dominion over the animal kingdom but was not meant to have dominion over man.

We need to realize when quoting Leviticus that the Israelites were a covenant society and making the covenant with Jehovah meant that one agreed to be murdered by the members of that society for certain offences.

I've read in Enoch how child abusers will suffer and the visionary had no words to describe how cruel would be their suffering. I have faith that God will deal with sinners in a just way and that punishment might be delayed until the great day of judgement.

I used to support strongly the death penalty but I've done a 180 on that one.

Lock 'em up and let God judge righteously.

Mike

[BuriedTartaria]

You propose a good moral question to ponder

[Niemand]

I'm not a fan of it because the law gets it wrong frequently. Yes, there are cases where someone is seen by multiple people doing something but a lot of the time they aren't. There are multiple cases where people lie or have mistaken identity.

There are many people who have been executed and then found to be innocent later. There is no comeback.

If you're rich like OJ Simpson you get a good defence. If you're poor you don't.

That's one reason I oppose it.

When God enacts death he knows all angles. Human law doesn't.

[Niemand]

I watched a YouTube video about a murderer who had turned to God during prison. I watched it out of morbid curiosity about what he'd done. Turned out his ex-wife's boyfriend sexually molested their son. The courts did a hand-slap, apparently, and the boy's father was furious. Went over and sent the guy to his maker. Him, I would not give the death penalty to, nor years in the pen even though that kind of rage is not a good thing at all. The pedo couldn't hurt that boy again, nor any other child. In that sense, the man did society a service.

That would be classed as a crime passionnel in French speaking countries. They have the sense to realise when strong emotions are involved that they can be a mitigating circumstance.

However, what happens if someone says X molested your child and you killed them and then it turned out they hadn't? I'm sure that's happened too.

That said if that man had done that for real then good riddance.

[h_p]

I used to strongly support the death penalty. As I got older I realized that the level of corruption in our local, state and federal governments is off the charts and anyone can get railroaded. I don't think the death penalty is appropriate anymore. Life incarceration is enough.

Me, too. There are crimes heinous enough that I feel absolutely justifies the death penalty. But giving that kind of power to a government is very problematic. And especially in light of how many people have been wrongfully convicted of a crime, I've become very hesitant about it.

Silver Pie mentioned rape. Yes, definitely a terrible crime. But how many men's lives have been destroyed just by the accusation? The line gets very blurry, and the slope gets slippery pretty quick. A woman, regretting her decision to consensual sex the night before, wakes up and accuses her partner of rape. All the physical evidence is there--what's the guy to do? Boom, he finds himself swinging from a rope.

If we could guarantee no innocent person is ever put to death, and no guilty person killed for a crime not worthy of death, I'd be behind it 100%. But if you think either is possible, you're living in dreamland.

[tdj]

The voting options are way too hard line, black or white. But with great reservations, I actually voted against capital punishment. The problem is, is that there is nothing addressing it in the New Testament. Certainly nothing from the mouth of Jesus.
I actually DO think that someone can be a Christian and support the death penalty, and I certainly don't blame people who've lost loved ones to murder who support it. If I were in their shoes, I don't think I'd be so wavering on the subject. It's just that whenever I hear of someone being put to death, I just have a twinge of something go off inside me. Sadness, concern over whether they truly ARE guilty, or perhaps thinking that if they turned their life around they should be given another chance to help someone? I don't know.
Has anyone seen the movie "Dead man walking?" I've never been able to tell if it is a pro or anti death penalty movie, but it sure lays out the emotions on both sides of the argument.

[Niemand]

I used to strongly support the death penalty. As I got older I realized that the level of corruption in our local, state and federal governments is off the charts and anyone can get railroaded. I don't think the death penalty is appropriate anymore. Life incarceration is enough.

Me, too. There are crimes heinous enough that I feel absolutely justifies the death penalty. But giving that kind of power to a government is very problematic. And especially in light of how many people have been wrongfully convicted of a crime, I've become very hesitant about it.

Silver Pie mentioned rape. Yes, definitely a terrible crime. But how many men's lives have been destroyed just by the accusation? The line gets very blurry, and the slope gets slippery pretty quick. A woman, regretting her decision to consensual sex the night before, wakes up and accuses her partner of rape. All the physical evidence is there--what's the guy to do? Boom, he finds himself swinging from a rope.

If we could guarantee no innocent person is ever put to death, and no guilty person killed for a crime not worthy of death, I'd be behind it 100%. But if you think either is possible, you're living in dreamland.

I was in the car with my mother many years ago when the police pulled her over and accused her of driving 120 mph. I would have known if she was going at that speed and owing to the nature of the road it would have been difficult to reach that speed anyway.

My mother took it to court and won. I was too young to give evidence but it was very instructive watching two policemen lying through their teeth about the whole event.

If they could lie about that... and it wasn't really worth their while to do so, what else could they lie about?

[FoxMammaWisdom]

There are not enough choices. I don't agree with either of those.

If someone is hurting my child, death penalty is 100% happening - I'll protect my child and not feel a bit wrong. I would also defend any other victim that way who's not my child.

Same if somebody comes in my home uninvited, they're risking the death penalty cuz I'm not going to wait around to ask questions before I defend my home and family from an invasion.

And then there are some things that if people have done them they shouldn't stay around and be called human, and we shouldn't have to support their existence if they're a danger to humans.

What if they're actually not human? Then does it count as the death penalty or is it like killing a big poison spider or serpent?

What if it's all theater anyway to pit us against each other on that level and public death sentences have been a big manipulation on human perception? (Does anyone here actually know anyone IRL who got that sentence or are we just watching TV?)

Is war basically just declaring the death penalty on an entire nation we don't like and feel deserves that sentence?

Why are we not giving the death penalty to those who are committing genocide against humans, or the satanists running the world? (I am 100% on board there.)

Why was an entire city too spineless to stand up and fight to defend Jesus against the Romans when he was innocent and everybody knew it but they wrongfully gave HIM the death penalty in front of everyone anyway?

Maybe there are more than 2 sides to consider? Maybe this idea is one that keeps Christians submissive and too afraid to stand up for themselves and others, and was given to us by those who want to keep getting away with murder and not being put to death themselves. What better way to stop a people from properly defending themselves - than teaching them it's "wrong" to do that.

[CaptainM]

But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
4 While it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost; and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him. (IV Acts 5)

10  And the man who slew him was taken by the people of the church, and was brought before Alma, to be judged according to the crimes which he had committed.
11  And it came to pass that he stood before Alma and pleaded for himself with much boldness.
12  But Alma said unto him: Behold, this is the first time that priestcraft has been introduced among this people.  And behold, thou art not only guilty of priestcraft, but hast endeavored to enforce it by the sword; and were priestcraft to be enforced among this people it would prove their entire destruction.
13  And thou hast shed the blood of a righteous man, yea, a man who has done much good among this people; and were we to spare thee his blood would come upon us for vengeance.
14  Therefore thou art condemned to die, according to the law which has been given us by Mosiah, our last king; and it has been acknowledged by this people; therefore this people must abide by the law.
15  And it came to pass that they took him; and his name was Nehor; and they carried him upon the top of the hill Manti, and there he was caused, or rather did acknowledge, between the heavens and the earth, that what he had taught to the people was contrary to the word of God; and there he suffered an ignominious death. (Alma 1)

In Christ. Best wishes…

[Silver Pie]

Me, too. There are crimes heinous enough that I feel absolutely justifies the death penalty. But giving that kind of power to a government is very problematic. And especially in light of how many people have been wrongfully convicted of a crime, I've become very hesitant about it.

Silver Pie mentioned rape. Yes, definitely a terrible crime. But how many men's lives have been destroyed just by the accusation? The line gets very blurry, and the slope gets slippery pretty quick. A woman, regretting her decision to consensual sex the night before, wakes up and accuses her partner of rape. All the physical evidence is there--what's the guy to do? Boom, he finds himself swinging from a rope.

If we could guarantee no innocent person is ever put to death, and no guilty person killed for a crime not worthy of death, I'd be behind it 100%. But if you think either is possible, you're living in dreamland.

This is definitely a problem, especially in a society as wicked and corrupt as our own. When I say I'm for the death penalty, it is for those who deserve it, not for those wrongfully accused/sentenced. I am very aware that mistakes/framing/prejudice happens.

I also consider it a good thing when the last person a mass shooter kills is themselves.

[Dave62]

No. I don't believe in capital punishment. It is too arbitrary. We need to exercise mercy. But when it comes to drug pushers... Harvest their organs first, perform medical experiments on them and then when they are begging for death leave them in solitary until they die naturally. I'm kind of half serious, half joking with this. I spent 7 years working in the juvenile justice system. It left me a little scarred. Drug pushers are monsters.

[Niemand]

I've developed a huge hatred for mainstream media in recent times, but since it is the only journalism I tend to encounter online (by design), I may as well quote it.

As I've said above, we tend to talk of open and shut cases, and those do exist, but the problems are that many murders don't tend to happen in public view.

What can we determine from this? At least 4% of death row people don't deserve to be there according to that study. I'm sure that's the tip of the iceberg. Despite their positive portrayal on TV, police are not always "the sharpest tools in the box" and there are probably numerous other borderline and questionable convictions. There are also a handful of people who have killed but with mitigating circumstances.

By the way, I also think if people are executed, a painful death is unnecessary. They will be dealt with appropriately on the other side. Torturing them here is mainly for the benefit of the living.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/elizabethl ... -to-death/

At least 4 percent of all people who receive the death penalty are innocent, if a new study is right.

The number of people sentenced to die for crimes they didn’t commit is often described as “not merely unknown but unknowable,” wrote the study’s researchers, led by Samuel Gross of the University of Michigan. And there is no systematic method to determine whether a criminal conviction is right, which would prevent the deaths of wrongly-sentenced people. Because of this, very few false convictions are discovered in the justice system.

But because a tiny number of exonerations do take place, the researchers had a foothold for estimating the overall rate of wrongly-convicted inmates. From 1973 until 2004, 7,482 people were sentenced to death. Among them, 117 exonerations that took place in during those 31 years; 107 took place among those who were awaiting execution. Another 10 were exonerated by legal proceedings that were initiated after the threat of death had been removed, according to the study, which was published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

What happened to the rest of the prisoners? Well, the bulk — 46 percent — were still on death row. Another 36 percent had their sentences reduced but remained in prison after their initial convictions were revised. About 13 percent were executed, and 4 percent died by other means — either suicide or natural causes.

The data starts in 1973, because that’s when the Supreme Court invalidated all prior death sentencing laws, and instituted the “modern” death penalty, the authors wrote

[simpleton]

Yes yes yes, Christians absolutely should support the death penalty, period, for the crimes that apply. And it is because of no death penalty, In México for example, that the worst forms of devils in the flesh flourish.
The idea of "life in prison" for heinous crimes is pathetic, it is a disservice to the community, infact it is an insult to the victims and to society. Joseph was against most incarceration, he figured kill the ones that deserved it and make the rest pay back their crimes. But you take most people that are murderers, and others of like criminals, and give them life in prison, you do them no favors. Most just turn out worse. The founding fathers had it right, Isreal had it right. If there is no fear of punishment, society goes nuts, like we are today.

[Niemand]

Yes yes yes, Christians absolutely should support the death penalty, period, for the crimes that apply. And it is because of no death penalty, In México for example, that the worst forms of devils in the flesh flourish.
The idea of "life in prison" for heinous crimes is pathetic, it is a disservice to the community, infact it is an insult to the victims and to society. Joseph was against most incarceration, he figured kill the ones that deserved it and make the rest pay back their crimes. But you take most people that are murderers, and others of like criminals, and give them life in prison, you do them no favors. Most just turn out worse. The founding fathers had it right, Isreal had it right. If there is no fear of punishment, society goes nuts, like we are today.

China also has the death penalty, which it hands out lightly. It is one of the most brutal and dictatorial societies on Earth. The difference is that it is the state doing most of the brutalising.

Even so, China does have problems with non-state organised massacres. There have been a number of incidents in recent decades where men enter schools and other institutions and proceed to go round stabbing children. It is their school-shooting equivalent.

In the twentieth century, China was so effective with its death penalty that between that and mass starvation it managed to kill off seventy million people.

I wonder why I bother using search engines, because they are just links to Wikipedia, but here's what it has to say:

The number of executions has dropped steadily in the 2000s, and significantly since 2007, when the Supreme People's Court regained the power to review all death sentences; for instance, the Dui Hua Foundation estimates that China executed 12,000 people in 2002, 6,500 people in 2007, and roughly 2,400 in 2013 and 2014

Given the choice of being a citizen of the PRC or of Mexico, I'd take Mexico given all its issues. The difference is perhaps that Mexico's death penalty is generally handed out by crimelords and not the state.

China uses death row prisoners as a source of organs and see them as slabs of meat. Must be big bucks in that. So be careful what you wish for. There are organ shortages in the USA and elsewhere. What happens when death row people are seen as a potential source? More people get put onto death row!

In December 2005, China's deputy health minister Huang Jiefu admitted that the country harvested organs from executed prisoners. In 2009, Chinese authorities acknowledged that two-thirds of organ transplants in the country could be traced back to executed prisoners.

We do not live in godly countries. Recent events have proven that. It's getting worse. What will people start being executed for? Promoting misinformation? Knowingly spreading Covid (or whatever is in fashion)?