Joseph Smith

[Serragon]

The Apostle Paul condemned those in his day that claimed the ressurection had began.

"Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have swerved from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already happened. They are upsetting the faith of some"

I stand corrected in that saints arose from opened graves after the Saviours ressurection, yet I stand by Paul statements that the Ressurection will not occur until our Saviour returns.
We find Lazerus arising from the dead, yet this is not the Ressurection spoken of in the Scripture neither is the earth shaking, graves opening and saints appearing to men the Ressurection.
We find that the Ressurection of mankind was in the distant future when the Saviour returns.

Paul said.
For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

Sounds like your "worship Jesus only" is really just following the Gospel according to Paul.

I appreciate your faith. But as you are critical of those who have come to know Christ through the teachings of Joseph, you don't hold yourself or other evangelical Christians to the same standard for doing the same thing with Paul.

Go in peace my brother......I love all the LDS peoples and pray every day that all their righteous desires may find fullfillment. It is my fervent hope that all men might put Jesus of Nazerath at the very centre of their lives and worship Him alone.
It was He that hung apon the cross for us.

I appreciate your prayers.

It is interesting to me that as soon as you are even lightly challenged on what I perceive to be some hypocrisy in the actual implementation of your faith, you immediately pull back into the save confines of the abstract and respond with vagaries that have nothing to do with what I commented on.

But this is what I find with almost all Christians. They preach Christ in the abstract because that is subjective and safe. But when they do decide to delve into the practical applications of these abstract ideas, they end up being Paulists and not "Christ only" as they preach. And so they end up accusing LDS for worshipping Joseph in the stead of Christ while blind to the fact that by these same standards they would be worshippers of Paul.

[JLHPROF]

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord,
that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel,
and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.

The first ressurection begins when the Saviour returns, not until.
The Apostle Paul warned the churchs against men whom were teaching the ressurection had already begun..........

Worship Jesus alone my friend, He will raise up your beloved Joseph when He returns, not untill.

Matt 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Christ was the first but is not the only one resurrected.

[briznian]

The words of Jesus regarding Joseph:

The ends of the earth shall inquire after thy name, and fools shall have thee in derision, and hell shall rage against thee; While the pure in heart, and the wise, and the noble, and the virtuous, shall seek counsel, and authority, and blessings constantly from under thy hand.

I have no doubt done many foolish things, but on this score I hope to be counted as one of the pure in heart, and the wise, and the noble, and the virtuous.

[moving2zion]

He was the 2nd most important man for our salvation besides Christ. For this I am grateful. He suffered and died to bring a fullness of the gospel of Christ back into our day.

[An Eye Single]

Joseph Smith himself said that Adam was second to Christ. I think that leaders of the church have said he was second to Christ in order to engender devotion to the church, but that’s not what Joseph taught.

[Luke]

Joseph Smith himself said that Adam was second to Christ.

I don’t think so.

[An Eye Single]

Joseph Smith himself said that Adam was second to Christ.

I don’t think so.

“The Priesthood was.
first given to Adam: he obtained the first Presidency & held the Keys of it, from generation to Generation; he obtained it in the creation before the world was formed as in Gen. 1, 26:28,—he had dominion given him over every living Creature. He is Michael, the Archangel, spoken of in the Scriptures,—Then to Noah who is Gabriel, he stands next in authority to Adam in the Priesthood; he was called of God to this office & was the Father of all living in his day, & To him was given the Dominion. These men held keys, first on earth, & then in Heaven.—The Priesthood is an everlasting principle & Existed with God from Eternity & will to Eternity, without beginning of days or end of years. the Keys have to be brought from heaven whenever the Gospel is sent.—When they are revealed from Heaven it is by Adams Authority.”

“Dan VII Speaks of the Ancient of days, he means the oldest man, our Father Adam, Michael; he will call his children together, & hold a council with them to prepare them for the coming of the Son of Man. He, (Adam) is the Father of the human family & presides over the Spirits of all men, & all that have had the Keys must stand before him in this great Council. This may take place before some of us leave this stage of action. The Son of Man stands before him & there is given him glory & dominion.—Adam delivers up his Stewardship to Christ, that which was deliverd to him as holding the Keys of the Universe, but retains his standing as head of the human family.”

“Christ is the Great High priest; Adam next.” (Ehat & Cook, The Words of Joseph Smith, pp 8-9, emphasis mine.)


“There are two Priesthoods spoken of in the Scriptures, viz the Melchisadeck and the Aaronic or Levitical Altho there are two Priesthoods, yet the Melchisadeck Priesthood comprehends the Aaronic or Levitical Priesthood and is the Grand head, and holds the highest Authority which pertains to the Priesthood the keys of the Kingdom of God in all ages of the world to the latest posterity on the earth and is the channel through which all knowledge, doctrine, the plan of salvation and every important matter is revealed from heaven. Its institution was prior to "the foundation of this earth or the morning stars sang together or the Sons of God shouted for joy," and is the highest and holiest Priesthood and is after the order of the Son [of] God, and all other Priesthoods are only parts, ramifications, powers and blessings belonging to the same and are held controlled and directed by it. It is the channel through which the Almighty commenced revealing his glory at the beginning of the creation of this earth and through which he has continued to reveal himself to the children of men to the present time and through which he will make known his purposes to the end of time—Commencing with Adam who was the first man who is spoken of in Daniel as being the "Antient of days" or in other words the first and oldest of all, the great grand progenitor of whom it is said in another place he is Michael because he was the first and father of all, not only by progeny, but he was the first to hold the spiritual blessings, the plan to whom was made known the plan of ordinances for the Salvation of his posterity unto the end, and to whom Christ was first revealed, and through whom Christ has been revealed from heaven and will continue to be revealed from henceforth. Adam holds the Keys of the dispensation of the fulness of times, i.e. the dispensation of all the times have been and will be revealed through him from the begining to Christ and from Christ to the end of all world the dispensations that have [been and] are to be revealed”

“Ephesians 1st Chap 9 & 10 verses. "Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he has purposed in himself that in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ both which are in heaven and which are on earth in him" Now the purpose in himself in the winding up scene of the last dispensation is, that all things pertaining to that dispensation should be conducted precisely in accordance with the preceeding dispensations. And again, God purposed in himself that there should not be an eternal fulness until every dispensation should be fulfilled and gathered together in one and that all things whatsoever that should be gathered together in one in those dispensations unto the same fulness and eternal glory should be in Christ Jesus, therefore he set the ordinances to be the same for Ever and ever and set Adam to watch over them to reveal them from heaven to man or to send Angels to reveal them 8 Heb 1 Chap. 16 verse. Are they not all ministring spirits sent forth to minister to those who shall be heirs of Salvation. These angels are under the direction of Michael or Adam who acts under the direction of Christ.” (Ibid., pp. 38-39, emphasis mine.)


“This then is the nature of the priesthood, every man holding the presidency of his dispensation and one man holding the presidency of them all even Adam, and Adam receiving his presidency and authority from Christ, but cannot receive a fulness, untill Christ shall present. the kingdom to the Father which shall be at the end of the last dispensation.” (Ibid., p 40, emphasis mine)

[Being There]

He was the 2nd most important man for our salvation besides Christ. For this I am grateful. He suffered and died to bring a fullness of the gospel of Christ back into our day.

2nd most important man huh.

to put or mention ANY - MAN ! 2nd to Christ, is very very wrong.
JS was a man - Christ is God !

you act as if the list goes up the latter until you reach JS at the top next to Christ. SMH
No wonder why the church is in the shape it's in - with members that worship JS.

as I said before

JS was a prophet - like any other prophet.
and like any other prophet - was a MAN ! and NOTHING MORE !

WHEN ARE YOU PEOPLE GOING TO WAKE - UP !
and quit worshiping Him - like he's some sort of God or something. He's NOT !

JESUS CHRIST IS EVERYTHING !
It's all about Jesus Christ !
- Like you and me, JS is nothing.
we ALL - (including JS) are like grains of sand
compared to the Sun - the son - Jesus Christ.

[BeNotDeceived]

He was the 2nd most important man for our salvation besides Christ. For this I am grateful. He suffered and died to bring a fullness of the gospel of Christ back into our day.

What about the Davidic Servant?

[JLHPROF]

He was the 2nd most important man for our salvation besides Christ. For this I am grateful. He suffered and died to bring a fullness of the gospel of Christ back into our day.

What about the Davidic Servant?

So tired of that phrase.
And more tired of him being conflated with everyone from the one mighty and strong to John the Batist to John the Revelator to guy next door.

[Being There]

He was the 2nd most important man for our salvation besides Christ. For this I am grateful. He suffered and died to bring a fullness of the gospel of Christ back into our day.

What about the Davidic Servant?

So tired of that phrase.
And more tired of him being conflated with everyone from the one mighty and strong to John the Batist to John the Revelator to guy next door.

not as tired as I am - hearing about Joseph Smith and how much you worship him.
"And more tired of him being conflated with everyone from the one mighty and strong to John the Batist
to John the Revelator to guy next door."

[JLHPROF]

He was the 2nd most important man for our salvation besides Christ. For this I am grateful. He suffered and died to bring a fullness of the gospel of Christ back into our day.

What about the Davidic Servant?

So tired of that phrase.
And more tired of him being conflated with everyone from the one mighty and strong to John the Batist to John the Revelator to guy next door.

not as tired as I am - hearing about Joseph Smith and how much you worship him.
"And more tired of him being conflated with everyone from the one mighty and strong to John the Batist
to John the Revelator to guy next door."

Joseph Smith is the head of our last dispensation of the fullness of times. He answers directly to the Savior and nobody living today will ever get to bypass him.
You can rant all you want but I am positive of his calling and position.
Your Davidic Servant isn't changing that.

[Being There]

What about the Davidic Servant?

So tired of that phrase.
And more tired of him being conflated with everyone from the one mighty and strong to John the Batist to John the Revelator to guy next door.

not as tired as I am - hearing about Joseph Smith and how much you worship him.
"And more tired of him being conflated with everyone from the one mighty and strong to John the Batist
to John the Revelator to guy next door."

Joseph Smith is the head of our last dispensation of the fullness of times. He answers directly to the Savior and nobody living today will ever get to bypass him.
You can rant all you want but I am positive of his calling and position.
Your Davidic Servant isn't changing that.

get to bypass him! lol.

congratulations, you've just demonstrated that you're living proof that the church has done it's job,
at sufficiently brainwashing and indoctrinating -
more like saturating you - in building up a fallen prophet, to the point that you
think that JS - was more than a man. lol. SMH - The Modern -Day Mormon Mentality -
The Joseph Smith mind block.

******** JS was raised to the degree of Master Mason in March 1842.
and he introduced Masonic rituals in the LDS Mormon temple endowment ceremony.
That alone says enough about just how much he had fallen.

and you can rant all you want but you've been completely deceived -
because you're sooooooooooooooooo focused on JS - instead JC Jesus Christ

as I've said before - in another comment to someone.

I'm not so sure I want to open that can of worms.

Because everyone that idolizes JS, or thinks just the best of him - in every way,
will try to defend anything and everything that is questionable and brought against him.
It's basically an endless debate ! ***

I use to believe some years ago, that JS was the greatest prophet ever;
and that things started to go down hill after him - and not starting with him;
like I believe now.

*** Like I said - I'm not going to defend or debate anything about this -
simply because it will never end -
Just like they do with the current prophet false prophet - Nelson -
Some members - just could NEVER see JS in any other light or way they do - or want to -
they just won't do it - no matter how much evidence is shown -
they just want to see him as their hero prophet.

It's actually quite simple;
and involves these things.
And this is why I say that it started with him.

Under his leadership -
1. He failed to establish ZION - as the Lord commanded him to, and
2. also the church was put under condemnation.

Quote
"A revelation given through the prophet Joseph Smith affirms this:
“Your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation. And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all. And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written—That they may bring forth fruit meet for their Father’s kingdom; otherwise there remaineth a scourge and judgment to be poured out upon the children of Zion” (D&C 84:54–58).


and that's - just getting started.

but like I said - I'm not going into an endless debate on these things.

but we have - these things - that I've already previously posted - in other threads.

JS prophesied things and said things - that just didn't happen - or played out like he said.
and other things in this thread.
WHEN PROPHETS AREN'T PROPHETS - FAILED PROPHECIES OF MORMON PROPHETS

Post by Being There » May 15th, 2022, 10:40 pm
viewtopic.php?p=1267084&hilit=Joseph+Sm ... s#p1267084

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
********
then we have his involvement with -
and he becoming - "raised to the degree of Master Mason in March 1842.
and how he introduced Masonic rituals in the LDS Mormon temple endowment ceremony.

BEWARE THE MORMON ENDOWMENT
viewtopic.php?p=1265922&hilit=BEWARE+TH ... T#p1265922

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Then we know he was a polygamist.
But of course - that's been debated up n down n all over in this forum -
most trying to prove that he wasn't -
when their is so much evidence - showing he was -
that - the church itself - FINALLY had to admit it.


viewtopic.php?p=1295060&hilit=Joseph+Sm ... s#p1295060

viewtopic.php?p=1295062&hilit=Joseph+Sm ... s#p1295062

Joseph Smith copied Freemasonry
https://ldsfacts.org/joseph-smith/josep ... eemasonry/

Joseph Smith documented liar
https://ldsfacts.org/joseph-smith/josep ... nted-liar/

[JLHPROF]

et to bypass him! lol.

congratulations, you've just demonstrated that you're living proof that the church has done it's job,
at sufficiently brainwashing and indoctrinating -
more like saturating you - in building up a fallen prophet, to the point that you
think that JS - was more than a man. lol. SMH - The Modern -Day Mormon Mentality -
The Joseph Smith mind block.

******** JS was raised to the degree of Master Mason in March 1842.
and he introduced Masonic rituals in the LDS Mormon temple endowment ceremony.
That alone says enough about just how much he had fallen.

and you can rant all you want but you've been completely deceived -
because you're sooooooooooooooooo focused on JS - instead JC Jesus Christ

as I've said before - in another comment to someone.

I'm not so sure I want to open that can of worms.

Because everyone that idolizes JS, or thinks just the best of him - in every way,
will try to defend anything and everything that is questionable and brought against him.
It's basically an endless debate ! ***

I use to believe some years ago, that JS was the greatest prophet ever;
and that things started to go down hill after him - and not starting with him;
like I believe now.

*** Like I said - I'm not going to defend or debate anything about this -
simply because it will never end -
Just like they do with the current prophet false prophet - Nelson -
Some members - just could NEVER see JS in any other light or way they do - or want to -
they just won't do it - no matter how much evidence is shown -
they just want to see him as their hero prophet.

It's actually quite simple;
and involves these things.
And this is why I say that it started with him.

Under his leadership -
1. He failed to establish ZION - as the Lord commanded him to, and
2. also the church was put under condemnation.

Quote
"A revelation given through the prophet Joseph Smith affirms this:
“Your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation. And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all. And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written—That they may bring forth fruit meet for their Father’s kingdom; otherwise there remaineth a scourge and judgment to be poured out upon the children of Zion” (D&C 84:54–58).


and that's - just getting started.

but like I said - I'm not going into an endless debate on these things.

but we have - these things - that I've already previously posted - in other threads.

JS prophesied things and said things - that just didn't happen - or played out like he said.
and other things in this thread.
WHEN PROPHETS AREN'T PROPHETS - FAILED PROPHECIES OF MORMON PROPHETS

Post by Being There » May 15th, 2022, 10:40 pm
viewtopic.php?p=1267084&hilit=Joseph+Sm ... s#p1267084

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
********
then we have his involvement with -
and he becoming - "raised to the degree of Master Mason in March 1842.
and how he introduced Masonic rituals in the LDS Mormon temple endowment ceremony.

BEWARE THE MORMON ENDOWMENT
viewtopic.php?p=1265922&hilit=BEWARE+TH ... T#p1265922

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Then we know he was a polygamist.
But of course - that's been debated up n down n all over in this forum -
most trying to prove that he wasn't -
when their is so much evidence - showing he was -
that - the church itself - FINALLY had to admit it.


viewtopic.php?p=1295060&hilit=Joseph+Sm ... s#p1295060

viewtopic.php?p=1295062&hilit=Joseph+Sm ... s#p1295062

Joseph Smith copied Freemasonry
https://ldsfacts.org/joseph-smith/josep ... eemasonry/

Joseph Smith documented liar
https://ldsfacts.org/joseph-smith/josep ... nted-liar/
Top

That was quite the incoherent post. But let me at least try to respond.

• "JS was raised to the degree of Master Mason in March 1842. and he introduced Masonic rituals in the LDS Mormon temple endowment ceremony. That alone says enough about just how much he had fallen."

I see no evidence that he fell in his participation in Masonry. And the temple endowment may have been formulated using masonic elements but so what?
Everything in the endowment is 100% found in scripture. Its elements are present in every culture, in every century, and the fact that he took inspiration from masonry is completely irrelevant to me. As Heber C. Kimball called it - Celestial Masonry. Works for me.

• 1. He failed to establish ZION - as the Lord commanded him to, and
  2. also the church was put under condemnation.

D&C 105:13 Therefore it is expedient in me that mine elders should wait for a little season, for the redemption of Zion.
The Lord ok'd waiting until members were ready. There is no indication of condemnation.
D&C 84:54–58 does condemn actions of members of the Church but makes NO mention of it having to do with establishing Zion.

• Then we know he was a polygamist. But of course - that's been debated up n down n all over in this forum - most trying to prove that he wasn't -
  when their is so much evidence - showing he was - that - the church itself - FINALLY had to admit it.

I believe he was.
I believe it was commanded by the Lord and it was right and is an eternal principle.

So your three issues with Joseph:
1. The Endowment
2. Establishing Zion
3. Polygamy
All non-starters as to his prophetic calling.

What else do ya got??

[nightlight]

So tired of that phrase.
And more tired of him being conflated with everyone from the one mighty and strong to John the Batist to John the Revelator to guy next door.

not as tired as I am - hearing about Joseph Smith and how much you worship him.
"And more tired of him being conflated with everyone from the one mighty and strong to John the Batist
to John the Revelator to guy next door."

Joseph Smith is the head of our last dispensation of the fullness of times. He answers directly to the Savior and nobody living today will ever get to bypass him.
You can rant all you want but I am positive of his calling and position.
Your Davidic Servant isn't changing that.

get to bypass him! lol.

congratulations, you've just demonstrated that you're living proof that the church has done it's job,
at sufficiently brainwashing and indoctrinating -
more like saturating you - in building up a fallen prophet, to the point that you
think that JS - was more than a man. lol. SMH - The Modern -Day Mormon Mentality -
The Joseph Smith mind block.

******** JS was raised to the degree of Master Mason in March 1842.
and he introduced Masonic rituals in the LDS Mormon temple endowment ceremony.
That alone says enough about just how much he had fallen.

and you can rant all you want but you've been completely deceived -
because you're sooooooooooooooooo focused on JS - instead JC Jesus Christ

as I've said before - in another comment to someone.

I'm not so sure I want to open that can of worms.

Because everyone that idolizes JS, or thinks just the best of him - in every way,
will try to defend anything and everything that is questionable and brought against him.
It's basically an endless debate ! ***

I use to believe some years ago, that JS was the greatest prophet ever;
and that things started to go down hill after him - and not starting with him;
like I believe now.

*** Like I said - I'm not going to defend or debate anything about this -
simply because it will never end -
Just like they do with the current prophet false prophet - Nelson -
Some members - just could NEVER see JS in any other light or way they do - or want to -
they just won't do it - no matter how much evidence is shown -
they just want to see him as their hero prophet.

It's actually quite simple;
and involves these things.
And this is why I say that it started with him.

Under his leadership -
1. He failed to establish ZION - as the Lord commanded him to, and
2. also the church was put under condemnation.

Quote
"A revelation given through the prophet Joseph Smith affirms this:
“Your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation. And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all. And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written—That they may bring forth fruit meet for their Father’s kingdom; otherwise there remaineth a scourge and judgment to be poured out upon the children of Zion” (D&C 84:54–58).


and that's - just getting started.

but like I said - I'm not going into an endless debate on these things.

but we have - these things - that I've already previously posted - in other threads.

JS prophesied things and said things - that just didn't happen - or played out like he said.
and other things in this thread.
WHEN PROPHETS AREN'T PROPHETS - FAILED PROPHECIES OF MORMON PROPHETS

Post by Being There » May 15th, 2022, 10:40 pm
viewtopic.php?p=1267084&hilit=Joseph+Sm ... s#p1267084

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
********
then we have his involvement with -
and he becoming - "raised to the degree of Master Mason in March 1842.
and how he introduced Masonic rituals in the LDS Mormon temple endowment ceremony.

BEWARE THE MORMON ENDOWMENT
viewtopic.php?p=1265922&hilit=BEWARE+TH ... T#p1265922

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Then we know he was a polygamist.
But of course - that's been debated up n down n all over in this forum -
most trying to prove that he wasn't -
when their is so much evidence - showing he was -
that - the church itself - FINALLY had to admit it.


viewtopic.php?p=1295060&hilit=Joseph+Sm ... s#p1295060

viewtopic.php?p=1295062&hilit=Joseph+Sm ... s#p1295062

Joseph Smith copied Freemasonry
https://ldsfacts.org/joseph-smith/josep ... eemasonry/

Joseph Smith documented liar
https://ldsfacts.org/joseph-smith/josep ... nted-liar/

Joseph Smith being a Mason says nothing about whether he was fallen or not

George Washington was a Master Mason.
You think you can walk in Washington's shoes? You think you've done more for the Christian cause than George Washington?

[Being There]

not as tired as I am - hearing about Joseph Smith and how much you worship him.
"And more tired of him being conflated with everyone from the one mighty and strong to John the Batist
to John the Revelator to guy next door."

Joseph Smith is the head of our last dispensation of the fullness of times. He answers directly to the Savior and nobody living today will ever get to bypass him.
You can rant all you want but I am positive of his calling and position.
Your Davidic Servant isn't changing that.

get to bypass him! lol.

congratulations, you've just demonstrated that you're living proof that the church has done it's job,
at sufficiently brainwashing and indoctrinating -
more like saturating you - in building up a fallen prophet, to the point that you
think that JS - was more than a man. lol. SMH - The Modern -Day Mormon Mentality -
The Joseph Smith mind block.

******** JS was raised to the degree of Master Mason in March 1842.
and he introduced Masonic rituals in the LDS Mormon temple endowment ceremony.
That alone says enough about just how much he had fallen.

and you can rant all you want but you've been completely deceived -
because you're sooooooooooooooooo focused on JS - instead JC Jesus Christ

as I've said before - in another comment to someone.

I'm not so sure I want to open that can of worms.

Because everyone that idolizes JS, or thinks just the best of him - in every way,
will try to defend anything and everything that is questionable and brought against him.
It's basically an endless debate ! ***

I use to believe some years ago, that JS was the greatest prophet ever;
and that things started to go down hill after him - and not starting with him;
like I believe now.

*** Like I said - I'm not going to defend or debate anything about this -
simply because it will never end -
Just like they do with the current prophet false prophet - Nelson -
Some members - just could NEVER see JS in any other light or way they do - or want to -
they just won't do it - no matter how much evidence is shown -
they just want to see him as their hero prophet.

It's actually quite simple;
and involves these things.
And this is why I say that it started with him.

Under his leadership -
1. He failed to establish ZION - as the Lord commanded him to, and
2. also the church was put under condemnation.

Quote
"A revelation given through the prophet Joseph Smith affirms this:
“Your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation. And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all. And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written—That they may bring forth fruit meet for their Father’s kingdom; otherwise there remaineth a scourge and judgment to be poured out upon the children of Zion” (D&C 84:54–58).


and that's - just getting started.

but like I said - I'm not going into an endless debate on these things.

but we have - these things - that I've already previously posted - in other threads.

JS prophesied things and said things - that just didn't happen - or played out like he said.
and other things in this thread.
WHEN PROPHETS AREN'T PROPHETS - FAILED PROPHECIES OF MORMON PROPHETS

Post by Being There » May 15th, 2022, 10:40 pm
viewtopic.php?p=1267084&hilit=Joseph+Sm ... s#p1267084

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
********
then we have his involvement with -
and he becoming - "raised to the degree of Master Mason in March 1842.
and how he introduced Masonic rituals in the LDS Mormon temple endowment ceremony.

BEWARE THE MORMON ENDOWMENT
viewtopic.php?p=1265922&hilit=BEWARE+TH ... T#p1265922

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Then we know he was a polygamist.
But of course - that's been debated up n down n all over in this forum -
most trying to prove that he wasn't -
when their is so much evidence - showing he was -
that - the church itself - FINALLY had to admit it.


viewtopic.php?p=1295060&hilit=Joseph+Sm ... s#p1295060

viewtopic.php?p=1295062&hilit=Joseph+Sm ... s#p1295062

Joseph Smith copied Freemasonry
https://ldsfacts.org/joseph-smith/josep ... eemasonry/

Joseph Smith documented liar
https://ldsfacts.org/joseph-smith/josep ... nted-liar/

Joseph Smith being a Mason says nothing about whether he was fallen or not

George Washington was a Master Mason.
You think you can walk in Washington's shoes? You think you've done more for the Christian cause than George Washington?

it actually says much.

Joseph Smith copied Freemasonry
https://ldsfacts.org/joseph-smith/josep ... eemasonry/


BEWARE THE MORMON ENDOWMENT
viewtopic.php?p=1265922&hilit=BEWARE+TH ... T#p1265922

[CaptainM]

Brethren,

Please do not anger. I didn’t realize how hot an issue this was. I am newer to the forum, and though I could see some antipathy, I don’t feel good about having a hand in it.

My hopes in raising the issue was to get some to realize you are both right. Joseph’s eyes were covered by the Lord because of our iniquities. Please see the following:

4  For behold, all ye that doeth iniquity, stay yourselves and wonder, for ye shall cry out, and cry; yea, ye shall be drunken but not with wine, ye shall stagger but not with strong drink.
5  For behold, the Lord hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep.  For behold, ye have closed your eyes, and ye have rejected the prophets; and your rulers, and the seers hath he covered because of your iniquity. (2 Nephi 27)

Our failure to live the law of consecration was our undoing. We must pray for forgiveness and demonstrate we will not repeat the mistakes of our past. Let’s look for a New Jerusalem.

Let’s not take up our swords (literal or figuratively) against each other. I admit I am somewhat hypocritical because if in the wrong mood, I may contend.

God bless all who diligently search with real intent. Pray for peace.

In Christ. Best wishes…

[Being There]

Joseph Smith is the head of our last dispensation of the fullness of times. He answers directly to the Savior and nobody living today will ever get to bypass him.
You can rant all you want but I am positive of his calling and position.
Your Davidic Servant isn't changing that.

get to bypass him! lol.

congratulations, you've just demonstrated that you're living proof that the church has done it's job,
at sufficiently brainwashing and indoctrinating -
more like saturating you - in building up a fallen prophet, to the point that you
think that JS - was more than a man. lol. SMH - The Modern -Day Mormon Mentality -
The Joseph Smith mind block.

******** JS was raised to the degree of Master Mason in March 1842.
and he introduced Masonic rituals in the LDS Mormon temple endowment ceremony.
That alone says enough about just how much he had fallen.

and you can rant all you want but you've been completely deceived -
because you're sooooooooooooooooo focused on JS - instead JC Jesus Christ

as I've said before - in another comment to someone.

I'm not so sure I want to open that can of worms.

Because everyone that idolizes JS, or thinks just the best of him - in every way,
will try to defend anything and everything that is questionable and brought against him.
It's basically an endless debate ! ***

I use to believe some years ago, that JS was the greatest prophet ever;
and that things started to go down hill after him - and not starting with him;
like I believe now.

*** Like I said - I'm not going to defend or debate anything about this -
simply because it will never end -
Just like they do with the current prophet false prophet - Nelson -
Some members - just could NEVER see JS in any other light or way they do - or want to -
they just won't do it - no matter how much evidence is shown -
they just want to see him as their hero prophet.

It's actually quite simple;
and involves these things.
And this is why I say that it started with him.

Under his leadership -
1. He failed to establish ZION - as the Lord commanded him to, and
2. also the church was put under condemnation.

Quote
"A revelation given through the prophet Joseph Smith affirms this:
“Your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation. And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all. And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written—That they may bring forth fruit meet for their Father’s kingdom; otherwise there remaineth a scourge and judgment to be poured out upon the children of Zion” (D&C 84:54–58).


and that's - just getting started.

but like I said - I'm not going into an endless debate on these things.

but we have - these things - that I've already previously posted - in other threads.

JS prophesied things and said things - that just didn't happen - or played out like he said.
and other things in this thread.
WHEN PROPHETS AREN'T PROPHETS - FAILED PROPHECIES OF MORMON PROPHETS

Post by Being There » May 15th, 2022, 10:40 pm
viewtopic.php?p=1267084&hilit=Joseph+Sm ... s#p1267084

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
********
then we have his involvement with -
and he becoming - "raised to the degree of Master Mason in March 1842.
and how he introduced Masonic rituals in the LDS Mormon temple endowment ceremony.

BEWARE THE MORMON ENDOWMENT
viewtopic.php?p=1265922&hilit=BEWARE+TH ... T#p1265922

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Then we know he was a polygamist.
But of course - that's been debated up n down n all over in this forum -
most trying to prove that he wasn't -
when their is so much evidence - showing he was -
that - the church itself - FINALLY had to admit it.


viewtopic.php?p=1295060&hilit=Joseph+Sm ... s#p1295060

viewtopic.php?p=1295062&hilit=Joseph+Sm ... s#p1295062

Joseph Smith copied Freemasonry
https://ldsfacts.org/joseph-smith/josep ... eemasonry/

Joseph Smith documented liar
https://ldsfacts.org/joseph-smith/josep ... nted-liar/

Joseph Smith being a Mason says nothing about whether he was fallen or not

George Washington was a Master Mason.
You think you can walk in Washington's shoes? You think you've done more for the Christian cause than George Washington?

it actually says much.

Joseph Smith copied Freemasonry
https://ldsfacts.org/joseph-smith/josep ... eemasonry/


BEWARE THE MORMON ENDOWMENT
viewtopic.php?p=1265922&hilit=BEWARE+TH ... T#p1265922

Joseph Smith documented liar
https://ldsfacts.org/joseph-smith/josep ... nted-liar/

https://ldsfacts.org/category/joseph-smith/

LDS Church Timeline & Fast Facts
https://ldsfacts.org/



LDS Church Timeline & Fast Facts

CNN wrote a great article on The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints Fast Facts. It gives a great quick timeline of major events in the LDS church but leaves out some important events and facts. It also doesn’t really give many links to where readers can find more information on the topics mentioned, so we have made a similar timeline with more dates and expanded info, and more links to some sources so readers can check the facts for themselves.
LDS Church Timeline

1805 – Joseph Smith was born.

1819 – Joseph Smith is taught by his father to scry (a form of divination in which a “seer” looked into a seer stone to receive supernatural knowledge).

1820 – Joseph Smith goes with father to hunt for treasure using scrying, by placing his head into a hat with a seer stone inside. This is is the same technique Joseph Smith would later use to translate the Book of Mormon.

1827 – Joseph Smith is purportedly shown by an angel the burial site of engraved golden plates that tell the story of American prophets living in the New World.

1830 – Joseph Smith publishes “The Book of Mormon,” the translation of the golden plates deciphered through placing his face into a hat with special seer stones and supposedly receiving divine guidance.

July 17, 1831 – Joseph Smith claims to have received the revelation commanding the practice of plural marriage, but keeps it hidden from the majority of the church.

April 14, 1832 – Brigham Young is baptized into the church.

1835 – “Doctrine and Covenants” is published as a record of prophecies foretold to Smith. Smith writes in Section 132 that God has told him he can marry as many women as he wants.

1839 – Joseph Smith leads his followers to Commerce, Illinois, where he becomes mayor and renames the town Nauvoo.

1842 – Joseph Smith reveals new temple ceremonies (which are a copy of Freemasonry) and uses the Freemason’s principles of secrecy as an excuse to marry him self to multiple women and keep them secret.

1843 – Joseph Smith officially records a “revelation” of plural marriage to LDS Church, and with it comes the permission from “God” that if his current wife doesn’t agree to it, he can hide it from her (D&C 132:55).

February 1844 – Joseph Smith increases his ambitions and announces his candidacy for president of the United States.

February 1844 – Joseph Smith along with his brother Hyrum are jailed on charges of treason after using militia to protect Nauvoo from violence instigated by those opposed to Smith’s church.

June 27, 1844 – The jail in Carthage, Illinois, where Smith and Hyrum are held, is attacked by an anti-Mormon mob and both men are killed. The death of Smith causes the church to splinter into three groups. A large group follows Brigham Young. Others follow Smith’s son James and others follow James Strang.

1846-1847 – Young and his followers leave Illinois, settling in Salt Lake City. Young becomes president of the church.

March 4, 1851-March 3, 1859 – Dr. John M. Bernhisel becomes the first Mormon to be elected to the US Congress where he serves as the delegate for the Utah Territory in the House of Representatives.

February 8, 1857 – Brigham Young preaches about his doctrine of Blood Atonement in LDS General Conference, where he preaches that Jesus atonement wasn’t enough, and that it is sometimes necessary to kill a man to so that he can be forgiven of his sins, saying “love that man or woman well enough to shed their blood”.

September 11, 1857 – Mountain Meadows Massacre occurs, where where a group of Mormon men and their church leaders slaughtered a peaceful wagon train including 120 men, women, and children, which has been associated with Brigham Young’s Blood atonement doctrine.

March 8, 1863 – Brigham Young preaches that those in interracial marriages deserve “death on the spot”.

April 6-8, 1877 – Dedication for the first operating temple in Utah, in St. George. It is the only temple completed during Young’s tenure as president.

September 24, 1890 – The practice of polygamy is banned by the church. By 1910 members who continue the practice are excommunicated.

April 6-24, 1893 – The Salt Lake Temple is dedicated in Salt Lake City. It is the largest in square footage and takes 40 years to complete.

1917-1940 – William H. King (D-UT) is the first Latter-Day Saints member to be a US senator. He also serves in the House from 1897-1900.

January 4, 2007 – Harry Reid (D-Nev) is elected Senate majority leader, the highest office obtained by a Mormon in US history.

February 4, 2008 – Thomas S. Monson is chosen as the new president to replace Gordon B. Hinckley after Hinckley’s death January 27.

2008 and 2011 – Mormon and former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney is a presidential aspirant for the Republican nomination for president of the United States, and is the Republican candidate in the 2012 election, and loses.

January 27, 2015 – After increased public pressure, church leaders pledge at a press conference to support anti-discrimination laws for gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgender people, as long the laws also protect the rights of religious groups. They also state that this pledge does not change church doctrine — including its opposition to gay marriage — though they say it is “unfair” to characterize the church’s announcement as a national nondiscrimination campaign.

October 25, 2016 – After increased public pressure, the church launches Mormon and Gay, a new section of its official website that’s intended to facilitate understanding and provide information on sexual identification, church doctrine and mental health resources.

August 8, 2017 – The church excommunicates James J. Hamula, the first dismissal of a major church leader since 1989, without giving a reason. Hamula had been serving as a member of The First Quorum of the Seventy, one highest order of priests in the mormon church, and his release is not because of apostasy, or abandonment of religious beliefs, the church says.

August 16, 2018 – The church releases a new style guide noting its preference for using the full name of the church and discouraging the use of any other nickname or abbreviation.

April 4, 2019 – The church announces that those in same-sex marriages will no longer be treated as “apostates.” Their children can be baptized without special approval from church leaders. It gives bishops choice as to how they will respond to same-sex marriages within each congregation.

April 6, 2019 – LDS church growth reported at lowest rate in 40 years.

May 6, 2019 – The church announces that couples who have been married civilly no longer have to wait one year before getting sealed in a temple wedding, which ceremony shares much in common with freemasonry.

August 2019 – The church changes its handbook to prohibit carrying lethal weapons on church property.

October 2, 2019 – The church announces that women will now be able to serve as witnesses to baptisms and temple sealings (which have masonic origins).

December 17, 2019 – The church responds responds to a whistleblower complaint that accuses the church of stockpiling $100 billion in accounts intended for charitable works, misleading members and avoiding taxes.

[SJR3t2]

JS was a holy prophet till the day he died. I don't believe everything people claim JS did or taught, for his name would be had [used] for good and evil. JS last dream shows us that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yV80ZsN ... n&index=28

[SJR3t2]

Get into some details of how Zeniff is a type of Joseph Smith as I bring up in my King Brigham post.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZFzCUW ... n&index=13

[BeNotDeceived]

The question, I think, should be: Was Joseph prophetic? Yes. Did he make mistakes? Yes. Was he a better man than the LDS church claims? Yes.

Dan Vogel’s thread: https://discussmormonism.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=156032

16 June 2019



March8miracle.org type events clue us that the Angel Moroni was a Fraud that has now landed his instrument via an Earthquake with a magnitude that may be said to be Emblematic of the Davidic Servant.

He told fables to reveal divine truths,

because that’s the only way people would listen.

he also told lies - to get people to listen to him.

BEWARE THE MORMON ENDOWMENT
viewtopic.php?p=1265922&hilit=masonic+J ... h#p1265922

WHEN PROPHETS AREN'T PROPHETS - FAILED PROPHECIES OF MORMON PROPHETS
viewtopic.php?p=1267084#p1267084

Good points all.

[CaptainM]

Here is an analysis done well.

[CaptainM]

I had a realization. Except for LDS Section 21 (in which Joseph Smith gave himself titles, and it is inferred that the Lord is speaking but never says, Thus Saith the Lord"), the Lord never called Joseph Smith a "Prophet" or "Seer". It is all church history or D&C headings designating him as "Joseph Smith the Prophet"; or LDS members putting him on that pedestal.

Section 107 of the D&C refers to the president of the high priesthood as being a prophet AND THE HEAD OF THE CHURCH!!! Of course that is self-exalting language, but the real president of the high priesthood is Christ, and He is the true head of the church. The so-called revelation in 107 is more like a scholarly assessment of priesthood rather than the language of the Lord.

Section 124 refers to titles for Joseph and Hyrum as prophets and seers. However, the LDS church had gone so far down the rabbit hole at this point, that the Masonic revelation had NOTHING to do with the doctrine of Christ. Instead it leads members back into captivity to a weird temple worship dogma.

According to the Book of Commandments, the ONLY gift Joseph was to have was translating the Book of Mormon.

I guess one could argue that since he used the interpreters and was commanded to do so, he might be referred to as a seer. However, the interpreters were returned with the gold plates, and he no longer was commanded to use them. In addition the choice seer referred to in the BOM is a Lamanite who will yet come forth.

Please, if someone can kindly point out where the Lord emphatically refers to him as more than a translator (except for the dubious Section 21) let me know where it is. Heads up: I do not put much if any stock in the sections of the D&C as being from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Also see viewtopic.php?t=69754

[Mamabear]

“I saw the Twelve Apostles of the Lamb, who are now upon the earth, who hold the keys of this last ministry, in foreign lands, standing together in a circle, much fatigued, with their clothes tattered and their feet swollen, with their eyes cast downward, and Jesus standing in their midst, and they did not behold him. The Savior looked upon them and wept.”

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper ... 5-1836/138

Joseph’s revelation that he and the 11 would be in a foreign land. But it never happened. Personally, I think he was trying to sound like John the revelator.

[Mindfields]

And don't forget the title of General.