What is the doctrine of Christ and the fulness of the gospel?

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oneClimbs
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What is the doctrine of Christ and the fulness of the gospel?

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I don’t know that there is anything else more important and timely that I can talk about than this. This information has been available for a long time and it is so plain and simple that it is only kept from people because of our own strange compulsion to overcomplicate things. Let’s break it down and see what amazing gifts that Christ has for us if we’ll only seek to receive them. I answer these questions in my most recent podcast, enjoy and feel free to discuss.

I couldn't figure out how to embed so you can play the audio here on my site:

https://oneclimbs.com/2022/12/05/26-wha ... he-gospel/
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I used an AI tool to generate this image by describing what I wanted to see and it did a pretty good job.I used AI to generate this image. I described what I wanted to see and it came out eerily accurate. Except imagine that I am lying down and the vantage point is below looking straight up from behind me.

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Luke
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Re: What is the doctrine of Christ and the fulness of the gospel?

Post by Luke »

Two different things I believe.

In 1842 Joseph Smith said that the Fullness of the Gospel wasn’t complete. Trying to identify it with the Doctrine of Christ contradicts Joseph imo (though the Doctrine of Christ is, of course, a part). Obviously everyone is at liberty to form their own conclusions as to whether JS was right or not—I believe he was.

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oneClimbs
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Re: What is the doctrine of Christ and the fulness of the gospel?

Post by oneClimbs »

Luke wrote: December 9th, 2022, 1:52 pm Two different things I believe.

In 1842 Joseph Smith said that the Fullness of the Gospel wasn’t complete. Trying to identify it with the Doctrine of Christ contradicts Joseph imo (though the Doctrine of Christ is, of course, a part). Obviously everyone is at liberty to form their own conclusions as to whether JS was right or not—I believe he was.
Do you have the specific quote on hand?

In 3 Nephi 16:10-12 the Lord says:

"And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you: At that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them. And then will I remember my covenant which I have made unto my people, O house of Israel, and I will bring my gospel unto them. And I will show unto thee, O house of Israel, that the Gentiles shall not have power over you; but I will remember my covenant unto you, O house of Israel, and ye shall come unto the knowledge of the fulness of my gospel."

So the Gentiles will receive the fulness of the gospel. If that has already happened, and I believe it has, then they will reject it at some point so if they don't have it then this prophecy is still in the future.

The reason I believe that we have the fulness is because we have the gospel and doctrine of Christ. The authority to baptize and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost is here so one can indeed embrace the gospel, accept the doctrine and be born of God just like the Book of Mormon teaches. I think the fulness isn't just the information but it consists in the ability to receive the promises of the covenant.

Does rejecting the fulness mean that the Gentile church will eventually have less and less people experiencing the baptism of fire and the fulness of the gospel? Could that be the rejection? I lean toward yes.

Jesus brings this up again in 3 Nephi 20:28-30

"And they shall be a scourge unto the people of this land. Nevertheless, when they shall have received the fulness of my gospel, then if they shall harden their hearts against me I will return their iniquities upon their own heads, saith the Father. And I will remember the covenant which I have made with my people; and I have covenanted with them that I would gather them together in mine own due time, that I would give unto them again the land of their fathers for their inheritance, which is the land of Jerusalem, which is the promised land unto them forever, saith the Father. And it shall come to pass that the time cometh, when the fulness of my gospel shall be preached unto them;"

So the fulness of the gospel will be received by the Gentiles, rejected by them, and then brought from among them to the house of Israel.

Also, the introduction to the Book of Mormon suggests this as well, it's not scripture but it illustrates that we as a Church openly claim we have received the fulness of the everlasting gospel which means we claim accountability.

"The Book of Mormon is a volume of holy scripture comparable to the Bible. It is a record of God’s dealings with ancient inhabitants of the Americas and contains the fulness of the everlasting gospel."

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Luke
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Re: What is the doctrine of Christ and the fulness of the gospel?

Post by Luke »

oneClimbs wrote: December 9th, 2022, 3:10 pm
Luke wrote: December 9th, 2022, 1:52 pm Two different things I believe.

In 1842 Joseph Smith said that the Fullness of the Gospel wasn’t complete. Trying to identify it with the Doctrine of Christ contradicts Joseph imo (though the Doctrine of Christ is, of course, a part). Obviously everyone is at liberty to form their own conclusions as to whether JS was right or not—I believe he was.
Do you have the specific quote on hand?

In 3 Nephi 16:10-12 the Lord says:

"And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you: At that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them. And then will I remember my covenant which I have made unto my people, O house of Israel, and I will bring my gospel unto them. And I will show unto thee, O house of Israel, that the Gentiles shall not have power over you; but I will remember my covenant unto you, O house of Israel, and ye shall come unto the knowledge of the fulness of my gospel."

So the Gentiles will receive the fulness of the gospel. If that has already happened, and I believe it has, then they will reject it at some point so if they don't have it then this prophecy is still in the future.

The reason I believe that we have the fulness is because we have the gospel and doctrine of Christ. The authority to baptize and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost is here so one can indeed embrace the gospel, accept the doctrine and be born of God just like the Book of Mormon teaches. I think the fulness isn't just the information but it consists in the ability to receive the promises of the covenant.

Does rejecting the fulness mean that the Gentile church will eventually have less and less people experiencing the baptism of fire and the fulness of the gospel? Could that be the rejection? I lean toward yes.

Jesus brings this up again in 3 Nephi 20:28-30

"And they shall be a scourge unto the people of this land. Nevertheless, when they shall have received the fulness of my gospel, then if they shall harden their hearts against me I will return their iniquities upon their own heads, saith the Father. And I will remember the covenant which I have made with my people; and I have covenanted with them that I would gather them together in mine own due time, that I would give unto them again the land of their fathers for their inheritance, which is the land of Jerusalem, which is the promised land unto them forever, saith the Father. And it shall come to pass that the time cometh, when the fulness of my gospel shall be preached unto them;"

So the fulness of the gospel will be received by the Gentiles, rejected by them, and then brought from among them to the house of Israel.

Also, the introduction to the Book of Mormon suggests this as well, it's not scripture but it illustrates that we as a Church openly claim we have received the fulness of the everlasting gospel which means we claim accountability.

"The Book of Mormon is a volume of holy scripture comparable to the Bible. It is a record of God’s dealings with ancient inhabitants of the Americas and contains the fulness of the everlasting gospel."
I'll give a few of my thoughts on this. First, the JS quote:
  • “Truly this is a day long to be remembered by the Saints of the last days,—a day in which the God of heaven has begun to restore the ancient order of His kingdom unto His servants and His people,—a day in which all things are concurring to bring about the completion of the fullness of the Gospel . . .” (Joseph Smith, 6 January 1842, DHC 4:462)
Joseph later speaks of a Kingdom of Kings and Priests in this quote, making it clear that the Temple Ordinances are part of the "Fullness". He makes this clear elsewhere, saying:
  • “The question is frequently asked, ‘Can we not be saved without going through with all those ordinances? I would answer, No, not the fulness of salvation. Jesus said, There are many mansions in my Father’s house, and I will go and prepare a place for you. House here named should have been translated kingdom; and any person who is exalted to the highest mansion has to abide a celestial law, and the whole law too.” (Joseph Smith, 20 January 1844, TPJS 331)
And furthermore, his usage of the term "the First Principles of the Gospel" to refer to the Doctrine of Christ on numerous occasions establishes that the Fullness is not just these first principles alone. I've posted these quotations on the forum before--I'm sure you're aware of them. He also plainly contrasted the two on one occasion that I know of:
  • “Again; if we can, by the authority of the Priesthood of the Son of God, baptize a man in the name of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, for the remission of sins, it is just as much our privilege to act as an agent, and be baptized for the remission of sins for and in behalf of our dead kindred, who have not heard the Gospel, or the fullness of it.” (Joseph Smith, 27 March 1842, TPJS 201)
Sherem noted that Jacob was "preaching that which ye call the gospel, or the doctrine of Christ." (Jacob 7:6). So we see that these two terms are interchangable. God Himself confirms this: "this is my gospel--repentance and baptism by water, and then cometh the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost, even the Comforter, which showeth all things, and teacheth the peaceable things of the kingdom." (D&C 39:6).

So the Gospel and the Fullness of the Gospel are not necessarily the same thing, although the term "the Gospel" has been used fairly loosely in many respects.

We read in D&C 10 that there was much more of the Gospel on the sealed portion. Such things are referred to in the Book of Mormon as "the greater things", as opposed to "the lesser things" which we have at present.

You brought up 3 Nephi 16, which is an interesting read. I noticed something interesting while reading it. Jesus conditions future judgments upon "[the] day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel". There are two events:

1. The sinning against the Gospel by the Gentiles.
2. The rejection of the Fullness of the Gospel by the Gentiles.

The Gentiles sinned against the Gospel, but didn't reject it. They rejected the Fullness of the Gospel altogether. "The Gospel", then, in the context of 3 Nephi 16, is the Doctrine of Christ. "The Fullness of the Gospel" being spoken of is something else.

What do I believe it speaks of then? I believe that we, the Gentiles, the Latter-day Saints to whom God gave the Fullness of the Gospel did two things: First, we sinned against the Gospel by not preaching the Doctrine of Christ properly, most notoriously by tossing the concept of the baptism of fire overboard and never speaking of what it actually means. Secondly, we rejected the Fullness of the Gospel by abandoning the United Order, forsaking Celestial Plural Marriage, changing vital ordinances of the Temple--to name the three most foremost points. I believe that these things are essential components of the Fullness of the Gospel as taught by the Prophet Joseph Smith.

I believe that Brigham Young saw this coming when he said:
  • “Hear it, ye elders of Israel, and mark it down in your log books: the fulness of the gospel is the United Order and the order of Plural Marriage, and without these two principles, this gospel can never be full, and I much fear that when I am gone, this people will give up these two principles which we prize so highly; and if they do, this church cannot advance as God wishes it to advance. If this people do not accept and live the principles of the United Order, they will not be acceptable to the Lord. I do not want to live to see the sufferings that this people will have to pass through if they reject the United Order.” (Brigham Young, April 1877, The Complete Discourses of Brigham Young 5:3112)
Fortunately we have promised messengers who are on the way under the direction of the Lord to put things right.

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Being There
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Re: What is the doctrine of Christ and the fulness of the gospel?

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The church, and most all it's members - who where offered the "fulness,
29 BUT THEY RECEIVE IT NOT; nor have we ever lived it !

This is talking about NOW -
"30 And in that generation shall the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled."
when The Times of the Gentiles is coming to an end - WHICH IS NOW !

and about us - the church - as the Gentiles that DID NOT RECEIVE and ARE NOT living;
"the fulness of my gospel"; because - of the precepts of men.
"for they perceive not the light, and they turn their hearts from me because of the precepts of men."

D&C 45:28-31
28 And when the times of the Gentiles is come in, a light shall break forth among them that sit in darkness,
and it shall be the fulness of my gospel;

29 BUT THEY RECEIVE IT NOT;
for they perceive not the light, and they turn their hearts from me because of the precepts of men.

30 And in that generation shall the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

31 And there shall be men standing in that generation, that shall not pass
until they shall see an overflowing scourge;
for a desolating sickness shall cover the land.



The church and it's members never received the fulness - nor have we ever lived it.

Where much is given - much is required.

We failed to establish Zion and LIVE the fulness - as the Lord directed; *** (below)
and furthermore, we were put under condemnation for treating to Book of Mormon lightly.

Ezra T. Benson has said that we were under condemnation for treating the Book of Mormon lightly.
“If the early Saints were rebuked for treating
the Book of Mormon lightly, are we under any less condemnation if we do the same?”

(in Conference Report, Oct. 1986, 4; or Ensign, Nov. 1986, 4–5).

We are still under condemnation.
"Condemnation Upon the LDS People Has Never Been Lifted"

"In the year 1832, just two years after the time when the LDS Church was established, a scourge and condemnation
was placed upon the current LDS people for their disobedience to the Lord.
This curse and pending judgement has never been lifted:"

WHEN we proud members stop thinking we are so good and the church is ALWAYS in the right and can do no wrong,
and we will never lose the gospel -
when we start reading what the scriptures say,
and start heeding the warnings that are in Isaiah and
the Book of Mormon FOR US,
maybe than, and ONLY then
will the Lord lift the condemnation that we have been under for so many years for treating the Book of Mormon lightly,
and come to the truth and be saved from the tribulations that are coming upon us.

D&C 84:
54 And your minds in times past have been darkened
because of unbelief, and because you have treated
lightly the things you have received—


55 Which vanity and unbelief have brought the
whole church under condemnation.


56 And this condemnation resteth upon
the children of Zion, even all.


57 And they shall remain under this condemnation
until they repent and remember the new covenant,
even the Book of Mormon and the former
commandments which I have given them,
not only to say, but to do according to
that which I have written


Doctrine and Covenants
Section 101:
1 Verily I say unto you, concerning your brethren who have been afflicted, and persecuted,
and cast out from the land of their inheritance—
2 I, the Lord, have suffered the affliction to come upon them, wherewith they have been afflicted,
in consequence of their transgressions;
6 Behold, I say unto you, there were jarrings,
and contentions, and envyings, and strifes,
and lustful and covetous desires among them;
therefore by these things they polluted their inheritances.


***
When the Lord wanted to build up Zion - for the saints live the fulness of the Gospel, and to be united - (United Order)
living the Law of consecration and live " by the principles of the law of the celestial kingdom, otherwise I cannot receive her unto myself", the saints failed to do so, and we have continued to fall more and more ever since.

D&C 105:
2 "Behold, I say unto you, were it not for the transgressions of my people, speaking concerning the church
and not individuals, they might have been redeemed even now.
3 But behold, they have not learned to be obedient to the things which I required at their hands, but are full of all manner of evil, and do not impart of their substance, as becometh saints, to the poor and afflicted among them;
4 And are not united according to the union required by the law of the celestial kingdom;
5 And Zion cannot be built up unless it is by the principles of the law of the celestial kingdom;
otherwise I cannot receive her unto myself.

6 And my people must needs be chastened until they learn obedience, if it must needs be, by the things which they suffer."

Dave62
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Re: What is the doctrine of Christ and the fulness of the gospel?

Post by Dave62 »

The Doctrine of Christ is that He came down from the Father and was lifted up on the cross to redeem all of mankind. We can return to the Father on condition of faith and repentance in the name of Christ. Everything else is in submission to this doctrine. Everything else without this doctrine if completely irrelevant.

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Being There
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Re: What is the doctrine of Christ and the fulness of the gospel?

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Jesus Himself told us what His doctrine is.


3 Nephi 11
31 Behold, verily, verily, I say unto you, I will declare unto you my doctrine.
32 And this is my doctrine, and it is the doctrine which the Father hath given unto me;
and I bear record of the Father, and the Father beareth record of me,
and the Holy Ghost beareth record of the Father and me; and I bear record
that the Father commandeth all men, everywhere, to repent and believe in me.
33 And whoso believeth in me, and is baptized, the same shall be saved; and they are they who shall inherit the kingdom of God.
34 And whoso believeth not in me, and is not baptized, shall be damned.
35 Verily, verily, I say unto you, that this is my doctrine,
and I bear record of it from the Father; and whoso believeth in me believeth in the Father also;
and unto him will the Father bear record of me, for he will visit him with fire and with the Holy Ghost.
36 And thus will the Father bear record of me, and the Holy Ghost will bear record unto him of the Father and me;
for the Father, and I, and the Holy Ghost are one.

37 "And again I say unto you, ye must repent, and become as a little child, and be baptized in my name,
or ye can in nowise receive these things."
38 "And again I say unto you, ye must repent, and be baptized in my name, and become as a little child,
or ye can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God."
39 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, that this is my doctrine,

and whoso buildeth upon this buildeth upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them."
40 And whoso shall declare more or less than this, and establish it for my doctrine, the same cometh of evil,
and is not built upon my rock; but he buildeth upon a sandy foundation, and the gates of hell stand open to receive such when the floods come and the winds beat upon them.
41 Therefore, go forth unto this people, and declare the words which I have spoken, unto the ends of the earth.

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marc
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Re: What is the doctrine of Christ and the fulness of the gospel?

Post by marc »

28 And when the times of the Gentiles is come in, a light shall break forth among them that sit in darkness, and it shall be the fulness of my gospel;
29 But they receive it not; for they perceive not the light, and they turn their hearts from me because of the precepts of men.

Jesus Christ is that light. The good news of the fulness of His gospel is to have the kind of relationship with Him that Joseph Smith and Moses and Enoch had (and subsequently Enoch's people). But the Gentiles received it not, neither did they perceive Him-the light. Hence they turned their hearts from Him/it/the light and thus they rejected His fulness, or in other words being brought back into His presence because of the precepts of men.

Hint: they rejected the notion of receiving the Second Comforter.

"Oh, you want religion, do you?"

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TheChristian
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Re: What is the doctrine of Christ and the fulness of the gospel?

Post by TheChristian »

The New testament contains a very simple Salvation message................

"And it shall come to pass in the last days that whomsoever shall call apon the name of the Lord shall be saved"

"If you can confess with your lips,
That Jesus is Lord,
And believe in your heart,
That He arose from the dead,
You are saved"

Jesus said concerning His simple Saving message,

"Come unto Me all you who labor and are heavy laden,
and I will give you rest.
Take My teaching upon you and learn from Me,
for I am gentle and lowly in heart,
and you will find rest for your souls.
For My teaching is easy and My burden is light.”

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Enoch
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Re: What is the doctrine of Christ and the fulness of the gospel?

Post by Enoch »

marc wrote: December 9th, 2022, 10:36 pm 28 And when the times of the Gentiles is come in, a light shall break forth among them that sit in darkness, and it shall be the fulness of my gospel;
29 But they receive it not; for they perceive not the light, and they turn their hearts from me because of the precepts of men.

Jesus Christ is that light. The good news of the fulness of His gospel is to have the kind of relationship with Him that Joseph Smith and Moses and Enoch had (and subsequently Enoch's people). But the Gentiles received it not, neither did they perceive Him-the light. Hence they turned their hearts from Him/it/the light and thus they rejected His fulness, or in other words being brought back into His presence because of the precepts of men.

Hint: they rejected the notion of receiving the Second Comforter.

"Oh, you want religion, do you?"
I question whether they/we (the general populous) truly knew or were sufficiently exposed to the truth? How many really were exposed to the notion of the second comforter? Weren't we duped into believing more in authority, prophets, temple rituals, ordinances, the church itself, etc - then clearly/unmistakenly shown the path back to God?

That's why I hope for real prophets/ministers/angels to rise up and make the message clear to as many as possible - that if we are going to be judged/condemned if we accepted a connection or coming to God - it is because we truly knew the way and didn't accept it.

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marc
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Re: What is the doctrine of Christ and the fulness of the gospel?

Post by marc »

edify wrote: December 10th, 2022, 9:31 am
marc wrote: December 9th, 2022, 10:36 pm 28 And when the times of the Gentiles is come in, a light shall break forth among them that sit in darkness, and it shall be the fulness of my gospel;
29 But they receive it not; for they perceive not the light, and they turn their hearts from me because of the precepts of men.

Jesus Christ is that light. The good news of the fulness of His gospel is to have the kind of relationship with Him that Joseph Smith and Moses and Enoch had (and subsequently Enoch's people). But the Gentiles received it not, neither did they perceive Him-the light. Hence they turned their hearts from Him/it/the light and thus they rejected His fulness, or in other words being brought back into His presence because of the precepts of men.

Hint: they rejected the notion of receiving the Second Comforter.

"Oh, you want religion, do you?"
I question whether they/we (the general populous) truly knew or were sufficiently exposed to the truth? How many really were exposed to the notion of the second comforter? Weren't we duped into believing more in authority, prophets, temple rituals, ordinances, the church itself, etc - then clearly/unmistakenly shown the path back to God?

That's why I hope for real prophets/ministers/angels to rise up and make the message clear to as many as possible - that if we are going to be judged/condemned if we accepted a connection or coming to God - it is because we truly knew the way and didn't accept it.
Why do you need to wait for more prophets to arise and tell you these things. It's already laid out in the scriptures. I can cite from every standard work the invitation and exhortation to seek His face and/or list examples of those who did the same. If you are familiar with the scriptures enough to know this, are you doing it? And if you're not, why would God give you more?

It's literally an open book test!

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Enoch
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Re: What is the doctrine of Christ and the fulness of the gospel?

Post by Enoch »

marc wrote: December 10th, 2022, 9:34 am
edify wrote: December 10th, 2022, 9:31 am
marc wrote: December 9th, 2022, 10:36 pm 28 And when the times of the Gentiles is come in, a light shall break forth among them that sit in darkness, and it shall be the fulness of my gospel;
29 But they receive it not; for they perceive not the light, and they turn their hearts from me because of the precepts of men.

Jesus Christ is that light. The good news of the fulness of His gospel is to have the kind of relationship with Him that Joseph Smith and Moses and Enoch had (and subsequently Enoch's people). But the Gentiles received it not, neither did they perceive Him-the light. Hence they turned their hearts from Him/it/the light and thus they rejected His fulness, or in other words being brought back into His presence because of the precepts of men.

Hint: they rejected the notion of receiving the Second Comforter.

"Oh, you want religion, do you?"
I question whether they/we (the general populous) truly knew or were sufficiently exposed to the truth? How many really were exposed to the notion of the second comforter? Weren't we duped into believing more in authority, prophets, temple rituals, ordinances, the church itself, etc - then clearly/unmistakenly shown the path back to God?

That's why I hope for real prophets/ministers/angels to rise up and make the message clear to as many as possible - that if we are going to be judged/condemned if we accepted a connection or coming to God - it is because we truly knew the way and didn't accept it.
Why do you need to wait for more prophets to arise and tell you these things. It's already laid out in the scriptures. I can cite from every standard work the invitation and exhortation to seek His face and/or list examples of those who did the same. If you are familiar with the scriptures enough to know this, are you doing it? And if you're not, why would God give you more?
Oh I'm not talking about me personally, but I cry for the millions of Gods children whether lds or not that maybe lost - because they didn't have the chance, because they clearly didn't know - how to come to God

So I do truly hope that what we read in the scriptures of powerful men of God imbued with his spirit start to stand and reach out for God's children - that as many as can, can be brought back to his presence -

I think of God and how he must feel - that we don't listen, that are given so much - yet we fall for this world - how much does he suffer for us - as king Ben said if we could keep in mind our nothingness and serve each other - Mosiah 2:14-25;

28 And it came to pass that the God of heaven looked upon the residue of the people, and he wept; and Enoch bore record of it, saying: How is it that the heavens weep, and shed forth their tears as the rain upon the mountains?

32 The Lord said unto Enoch: Behold these thy brethren; they are the workmanship of mine own hands, and I gave unto them their knowledge, in the day I created them; and in the Garden of Eden, gave I unto man his agency;

33 And unto thy brethren have I said, and also given commandment, that they should love one another, and that they should choose me, their Father; but behold, they are without affection, and they hate their own blood;

I feel for us - humanity - so much suffering, so much loss -

I guess at times I wish as Ammon:
Alma 29

[1] O that I were an angel, and could have the wish of mine heart, that I might go forth and speak with the trump of God, with a voice to shake the earth, and cry repentance unto every people!

[2] Yea, I would declare unto every soul, as with the voice of thunder, repentance and the plan of redemption, that they should repent and come unto our God, that there might not be more sorrow upon all the face of the earth.

Who wouldn't we want to shake the earth so others could know God?

Acts 5
23 For while I was passing through and examining the objects of your worship, I also found an altar with this inscription, ‘TO AN UNKNOWN GOD.’ Therefore, what you worship in ignorance, this I proclaim to you.
24 The God who made the world and everything that is in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made by hands;
25 nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things;
26 and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation,
27 that they would seek God, if perhaps they might feel around for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;

Isa 26:9
My soul yearns for you in the night; my spirit within me searches for you. For when your judgments come upon the earth, the world's inhabitants learn righteousness.

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FrankOne
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Re: What is the doctrine of Christ and the fulness of the gospel?

Post by FrankOne »

the sealed portion of the BOM indicates that something is missing and the early church wasn't ready for it.

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marc
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Re: What is the doctrine of Christ and the fulness of the gospel?

Post by marc »

FrankOne wrote: December 10th, 2022, 10:47 am the sealed portion of the BOM indicates that something is missing and the early church wasn't ready for it.
3 Nephi 26:1 And now it came to pass that when Jesus had told these things he expounded them unto the multitude; and he did expound all things unto them, both great and small.

2 And he saith: These scriptures, which ye had not with you, the Father commanded that I should give unto you; for it was wisdom in him that they should be given unto future generations.

3 And he did expound all things, even from the beginning until the time that he should come in his glory—yea, even all things which should come upon the face of the earth, even until the elements should melt with fervent heat, and the earth should be wrapt together as a scroll, and the heavens and the earth should pass away;

4 And even unto the great and last day, when all people, and all kindreds, and all nations and tongues shall stand before God, to be judged of their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil


5 If they be good, to the resurrection of everlasting life; and if they be evil, to the resurrection of damnation; being on a parallel, the one on the one hand and the other on the other hand, according to the mercy, and the justice, and the holiness which is in Christ, who was before the world began.

6 And now there cannot be written in this book even a hundredth part of the things which Jesus did truly teach unto the people;

7 But behold the plates of Nephi do contain the more part of the things which he taught the people.

8 And these things have I written, which are a lesser part of the things which he taught the people; and I have written them to the intent that they may be brought again unto this people, from the Gentiles, according to the words which Jesus hath spoken.

9 And when they shall have received this, which is expedient that they should have first, to try their faith, and if it shall so be that they shall believe these things then shall the greater things be made manifest unto them.

10 And if it so be that they will not believe these things, then shall the greater things be withheld from them, unto their condemnation.

11 Behold, I was about to write them, all which were engraven upon the plates of Nephi, but the Lord forbade it, saying: I will try the faith of my people.

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marc
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Re: What is the doctrine of Christ and the fulness of the gospel?

Post by marc »

The saints - generally speaking - have treated the BoM lightly since D&C 84 was given and even today, people don't really study deeply the scriptures we already have. So why should the Lord give us more?

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nightlight
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Re: What is the doctrine of Christ and the fulness of the gospel?

Post by nightlight »

You all think that sealed part of the Book of Mormon is some new rites ......

I don't it is

It's prophecy of what's to come.

LDS obsession with outward ordinances is very strange

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FrankOne
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Re: What is the doctrine of Christ and the fulness of the gospel?

Post by FrankOne »

nightlight wrote: December 10th, 2022, 11:35 am You all think that sealed part of the Book of Mormon is some new rites ......

I don't it is

It's prophecy of what's to come.

LDS obsession with outward ordinances is very strange
I word it a bit different to fit my view. The obsession with ritual.

It is my hope that a real ordinance will be instituted which provides a quantum leap for those ready to take a firm step forward.

It's a bit of a lengthy quote but I think most will find it worth the read . It's a part of the history of the Sikh faith and what I believe to be a true ordinance:
===============================================

"The day dawned clear and bright for the Baisakhi celebration of 1699. The Sikhs were in a festive mood because Guru Gobind Rai had proclaimed that all should come together at Anandpur Sahib.

The crowds gathered in anticipation in front of the Guru's tent. They expected to hear a stirring speech. No one was prepared for the sight of the Guru when he did appear. He was dressed in his royal blue uniform with his arms girded about him; his eyes were so intense that no one dared to look at him. He drew his sword and shouted, "I need a head!" People could not believe their ears. The Guru wanted to kill one of his beloved Sikhs?

Again the cry rang out, and again. Many people ran away in fear and horror. But one man, Daya Ram, rose and said, "O beloved Guru, my head has always been yours." The Guru took him into the tent and came out with a sword dripping with blood. Again he asked for a head. Dharm Das came up and said, "Take my head, O dear one." Once again, the Guru took him into his tent and emerged with a dripping sword. For the third time, he asked the question. Mokum Chand bowed before his Master. The Sikhs began to think that he was going to kill them all. Two more times the call went out, and two more devoted Sikhs, Himmat and Sahib Chand, stepped forward to fill the void. The Guru then went into the tent himself.

Suddenly, the Guru and the five appeared, as if from the dead. He had dressed them and himself in beautiful golden clothes so that they shone like the sun. To them he said, "You and I are one and the same." The Guru sat the five near him and said, "Guru Nanak had only one devoted Sikh, Angad. In my time there are five Sikhs who are totally devoted to the Guru. They shall lay the foundation for the new Sikh faith." The gathering cheered the five for their courage. The Guru then said, "From this day on the Khalsa, the Pure Ones, will be baptized by the Amrit. They shall become Singhs and Kaurs."
=========================

now , over 500 yrs later, the understanding of the Amrit and it's preparation is lost and has become a RITUAL. It is possible that the only ones that ever received the true "ordinance of Amrit" were the first five.

I've talked with a few Sikhs and I was impressed with their way of understanding this world and the world hereafter.

There are many slightly differing accounts of this moment in Sikh history. I couldn't find the one that I had read years ago where the Guru didn't call for "A head" , he called for a sacrifice. Also, each volunteer that entered could be heard crying out in pain from whatever had happened. I believe that both the points above are very pertinent to what the cleansing is. My perception is that it is the final step of the cleansing of the natural man. The white stone mentioned by Christ. It is my hope, because without it, I can't believe that more than a handful of people in the entire world will be ready for Christ's return. I certainly am not ready.

wiki history. Note the word "baptism":

Guru Nanak founded the Sikh faith in the Punjab region of the northern part of the Indian subcontinent, and present-day Pakistan, in the end of fifteenth century. He was first of the ten Sikh Gurus. The tenth, Guru Gobind Singh, formalised its practices on 13 April 1699.[1] He baptised five Sikh people from different parts of India, with different social backgrounds, to form Khalsa (ਖ਼ਾਲਸਾ). Those five Beloved Ones, the Pañj Piārē, then baptised him into the Khalsa fold.[2] This gives the order of Khalsa a history of around 500 years.

I am going to repost this in the thread on the simulation , 'ready to begin?'

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cab
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Re: What is the doctrine of Christ and the fulness of the gospel?

Post by cab »

oneClimbs wrote: December 9th, 2022, 12:36 pm I don’t know that there is anything else more important and timely that I can talk about than this. This information has been available for a long time and it is so plain and simple that it is only kept from people because of our own strange compulsion to overcomplicate things. Let’s break it down and see what amazing gifts that Christ has for us if we’ll only seek to receive them. I answer these questions in my most recent podcast, enjoy and feel free to discuss.

I couldn't figure out how to embed so you can play the audio here on my site:

https://oneclimbs.com/2022/12/05/26-wha ... he-gospel/

pillar-of-fire2.jpg

I used an AI tool to generate this image by describing what I wanted to see and it did a pretty good job.I used AI to generate this image. I described what I wanted to see and it came out eerily accurate. Except imagine that I am lying down and the vantage point is below looking straight up from behind me.

I love your graphic and look forward to reading the blog post.
I believe the fullness of Christ’s gospel is quite simply to submit ourselves to Him and partake of Him which occurs at culminating event of the spiritual baptism that He administers unto us when we are spiritually begotten. All true teachings, outward ordinances, and parables act as a map that tunnels through the mists of darkness towards His glorious light and love, which is to have the spirit that emanates from within Him to then emanate from within us. This is to begin to dwell within his presence for we then have him dwell within us as our hearts have become living tabernacles (aka dwelling places) of his Holy Spirit, which is to become temples of God.
Know ye not that WE are to become temples of God?!

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Mindfields
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Re: What is the doctrine of Christ and the fulness of the gospel?

Post by Mindfields »

Being There wrote: December 9th, 2022, 10:31 pm Jesus Himself told us what His doctrine is.


3 Nephi 11
31 Behold, verily, verily, I say unto you, I will declare unto you my doctrine.
32 And this is my doctrine, and it is the doctrine which the Father hath given unto me;
and I bear record of the Father, and the Father beareth record of me,
and the Holy Ghost beareth record of the Father and me; and I bear record
that the Father commandeth all men, everywhere, to repent and believe in me.
33 And whoso believeth in me, and is baptized, the same shall be saved; and they are they who shall inherit the kingdom of God.
34 And whoso believeth not in me, and is not baptized, shall be damned.
35 Verily, verily, I say unto you, that this is my doctrine,
and I bear record of it from the Father; and whoso believeth in me believeth in the Father also;
and unto him will the Father bear record of me, for he will visit him with fire and with the Holy Ghost.
36 And thus will the Father bear record of me, and the Holy Ghost will bear record unto him of the Father and me;
for the Father, and I, and the Holy Ghost are one.

37 "And again I say unto you, ye must repent, and become as a little child, and be baptized in my name,
or ye can in nowise receive these things."
38 "And again I say unto you, ye must repent, and be baptized in my name, and become as a little child,
or ye can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God."
39 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, that this is my doctrine,

and whoso buildeth upon this buildeth upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them."
40 And whoso shall declare more or less than this, and establish it for my doctrine, the same cometh of evil,
and is not built upon my rock; but he buildeth upon a sandy foundation, and the gates of hell stand open to receive such when the floods come and the winds beat upon them.
41 Therefore, go forth unto this people, and declare the words which I have spoken, unto the ends of the earth.
So simple in concept and available to all yet Mormonism the so called champion of the Book of Mormon doesn’t believe this in the slightest. The leaders over the years have complicated the process beyond belief with nonsense additions. The scriptures above give a stern warning not to add to this and call it His Gospel. If the Book of Mormon is true and contains the fullness of the Gospel we ought to believe and follow what it says otherwise just continue on the current hell bent course.

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HereWeGo
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Re: What is the doctrine of Christ and the fulness of the gospel?

Post by HereWeGo »

FrankOne wrote: December 10th, 2022, 10:47 am the sealed portion of the BOM indicates that something is missing and the early church wasn't ready for it.
I dare say that the current church is even less ready.

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SJR3t2
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Re: What is the doctrine of Christ and the fulness of the gospel?

Post by SJR3t2 »

As I see it every part of the Doctrine of Christ [the Messiah] is connected to His law / Torah.
A Repenting and returning to the law / Torah.
-B Baptism of water is a witness of covenant already made to keep all of His law / Torah.
-B Baptism of fire is a witness you have been judged and found with a broken heart and a contrite spirit and you are then cleansed of your past sins and have been justified by the law / Torah because of Yeshua’s merits.
A Baptism of the Holy Spirit is sanctification by the law / Torah and have it written on your heart and you seek to sin no more and have the express image of Yeshua in your countenance.
Sometimes the Doctrine of Christ [the Messiah] includes enduring to the end which is keeping the commandments to the end of your life even when the world will judge you negatively for doing so. Other times it will include speaking with the tongue of angels which is simply preaching and teaching the law / Torah and calling people to repentance which is telling them to return to YHWH’s law / Torah.
https://seekingyhwh.org/2022/10/05/all- ... o-chiasmi/

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