America First vs. Trump First

[larsenb]

I prefer to focus on his actual accomplishments during his presidency, which were considerable, and which largely fulfilled his campaign promises, or were strong attempts to do so. An extreme rarity in the political realm.

These greatly 'trump' a lot of negative 'evidence' you or others may come up with, much of it being 'guilt by association', or generated by already extremely anti-Trump prejudice. Just my point of view.

He did fulfill many of his campaign promises amid a mountain of dissenters which were rabid in their accusations and militant in their opposition. The minds of those suffering from personal hatred of Trump was both astounding and unreasonable. If anything that made you cheer for the guy. Yet he didn't just wind up in the presidency by mere randomness.

I think that is wise too look more closely not only at his associations but moreso at his own actions and the evidence produced by himself as you prefer to focus on.

"Yet he didn't just wind up in the presidency by mere randomness". Of course not. The man can be a very focused, goal-driven individual. This coupled with his rather unique 'charisma' and ability to excite his base is what did it.

I am not sure that Trump will be able to pull together a winning coalition in 2024. Too many suburban women won’t vote for him. We will still see if he can pull off the nomination. He is going to need to somehow pivot on the jab program to have a chance. I do not know if he can.

I can't argue with that.

It will be an uphill battle to even get the Nomination, especially w/DeSantis nipping at his heals. If DeSantis really fights him on this issue, for me, it will be a very black mark against the man, in my view.

Originally, DeSantis was pro-vaccine. He was also pro-TPP, a strictly a neoconservative, national sovereignty-eroding trade agreement. One of the first things Trump did while in office was to undercut this agreement.

[Letfreedumbring]

Was not aware of DeSantis being pro-TPP but it does not surprise me either.

DeSantis bad, Trump bad. Sadly they are the only bright spots in the Republican party these days.
To put it in perspective their alternative is Jeb Bush. Sorry I didn't mean to depress this forum on a friday.

[FrankOne]

Why would any liberty-minded Americans support Trump? The guy who helped ensure the increase of global tyranny (during the fake pandemic) and fast-tracked the clot shot. LOL.

Several reasons, which I've stated a few times before. Trump has his weaknesses.

In a nutshell, he saw the plandemic destroying the good he had done (economy, etc, etc.) he probably didn't have a pre-antivax mindset; with all the negativity and dire predictions for the plandemic, he probably assumed an effective vaccine could be quickly developed, and pushing for it would show leadership which would help him in the coming election. He was further suckered into this position by a sense that he had a gift for accomplishing task, both ahead of schedule and under budget.

This seems like a logical assessment of the man, from my point of view. He certainly hadn't spent the last 20 years or so of his life studying the 'issues of freedom', or voting for Presidential candidates that didn't have a snowflake's chance in hell of winning.

I watched a Trump rally a few weeks ago and he's still talking about "Operation Warp Speed" as one of his amazing accomplishments. The crowd was mostly silent with a few slow claps. Not sure why he keeps pushing that. It will lose him votes.

indeed. Why? when it will lose him votes? Because he is following a directive. When common sense is violated, there is a definite reason for it. Good cop/Bad cop, same Captain.

[larsenb]

Why would any liberty-minded Americans support Trump? The guy who helped ensure the increase of global tyranny (during the fake pandemic) and fast-tracked the clot shot. LOL.

Several reasons, which I've stated a few times before. Trump has his weaknesses.

In a nutshell, he saw the plandemic destroying the good he had done (economy, etc, etc.) he probably didn't have a pre-antivax mindset; with all the negativity and dire predictions for the plandemic, he probably assumed an effective vaccine could be quickly developed, and pushing for it would show leadership which would help him in the coming election. He was further suckered into this position by a sense that he had a gift for accomplishing task, both ahead of schedule and under budget.

This seems like a logical assessment of the man, from my point of view. He certainly hadn't spent the last 20 years or so of his life studying the 'issues of freedom', or voting for Presidential candidates that didn't have a snowflake's chance in hell of winning.

I watched a Trump rally a few weeks ago and he's still talking about "Operation Warp Speed" as one of his amazing accomplishments. The crowd was mostly silent with a few slow claps. Not sure why he keeps pushing that. It will lose him votes.

indeed. Why? when it will lose him votes? Because he is following a directive. When common sense is violated, there is a definite reason for it. Good cop/Bad cop, same Captain.

Interesting surmise. But just that, a surmise. I would like to see the actual interchange claiming Trump was still bragging about Operation Warpspeed and when it took place. You also ignore his most recent conciliatory remarks regarding the shots: they should not be forced; and those in government/military who were forced out by non-compliance, should be reinstated and compensated for loss of income.

It's not Trump's nature to admit he's wrong. He also tries to look on the bright side, but has said, when he makes mistakes, he tries to correct them.

Now if Trump is not on a path of repentance for Warp Speed, he won't get very far with his populism base, and deserves to fade off into limbo.

[harakim]

Operation Warpspeed is a great accomplishment.

The vaccine was coming whether we liked it or not. Trump forced their hand and sped it up. YOU ALL HAD THE CHOICE TO TAKE IT. Trump didn’t force you. But your churches and schools and companies sure tried. Everything with the deep state has been exposed. All because it was fast-forwarded. Things such as:
Big Pharma, how vaccines make people sick, corporations and fascism, how organized churches are part of the deep state. How Fauci is an evil moron. If trump didn’t put him there, the people would never believe it. The man was practically worshipped his entire career. It exposed so much.

If Trump hadn’t sped it up, we’d still be in a fake pandemic waiting on a vaccine. I think it was going to be 8 years? They’d have us locked down, in dire straights. We’d be begging for anything to get us out... including a vaccine.

You guys need to think outside the box. We are literally in a war. And it’s not as black and white as you’re making it sound.

Trump will go down as a hero when this is all said and done.

*edit: to add this 10 min video that will change your mind about Trump and the vaccine. Worth every minute. I played it on 1.5x speed.

https://rumble.com/v1uqf26-trump-desan ... nakes.html

There is no way we would have been in a lockdown for eight years.

[Christianlee]

Operation Warp Speed’s “vaccines” have caused (conservatively) thousands of deaths. While it may have been the project of Gates and Fauci, Donald Trump will never live down the part he played in enabling it.

[Bronco73idi]

Too many Americans think America First can only be accomplished by Donald Trump. The movement is dead if it depends on Trump to accomplish it.

Clickbait title, Democrats think they are fighting for America. Your subject of mocking anyone for trump can imply you are for anyone but trump.

You should have just put, “I hate Trump”

Put some meat into your thoughts, who is better that is fighting for America?

[larsenb]

. . . . . Give me a break. His ego wanted the vaccine accomplishment for his re-election. He encouraged unnecessary Covid lockdowns and criticized governors who ended them early. He then set us up with the deadly vax. We don’t know if he would have given into the pressure to mandate them. Who had ever heard of a successful vaccine for what was essentially a bad common cold for most people? I lived through the Hong Kong flu in the late 60s which really did kill as many people in proportion to the population as they claimed Covid did. And it killed people of all ages. Lockdowns were never contemplated. Fauci was looking for this “pandemic” to implement mRNA shots. Trump fell for it hook, line and sinker even when there were expert virologists shouting from the rooftops that vaccinating into a pandemic would cause big problems. This will be an albatross around Trump’s neck. Herd immunity would have killed the pandemic on its own — the vaccines prolonged it.

Fauci actually predicted this 'pandemic' in a televised discourse on it in early 2017, the start of the Trump presidency.

People get sooo wrapped up in ascribing whatever Trump does as a function of his massive ego, narcissism, etc. Using this kind of rhetoric really says more about the person employing it than their actual target.

Why is that? Because it's a form of virtue signaling; which you could better describe as 'inverted' virtue signaling. Instead of signaling to the world your particular virtues, you signal to the world how bad your target of opprobrium is, with the strong implications that you, yourself, partake of none of evil essence you ascribe to your target.

Now I understand your position as stated here: viewtopic.php?p=1328658#p1328658

And I'm not entirely sure Trump consciously did what he did w OWS, etc., as FreedomJess intimates. But i think it is true that his giving a green light to getting it out as quickly as possible, encouraged the perps to so so , and maybe a lot quicker than they had planned . . . . And their doing so, did get them under the spotlight very quickly.

[larsenb]

And as you can see, I get triggered by the incessant nasty rhetoric used against DT. It's toxic enough coming from neocons and leftists and their media in a non-stop drumbeat.

[larsenb]

Operation Warp Speed’s “vaccines” have caused (conservatively) thousands of deaths. While it may have been the project of Gates and Fauci, Donald Trump will never live down the part he played in enabling it.

The fat lady hasn't sung yet on this issue.

And you ignore DT's statements regarding compensation for governmental anti-vaxers, and shots being strictly voluntary in his announcement for the Presidency. You also ignore how he pushed alternative COVID-19 therapies through repurposed/off-label drugs, etc. And there is more.

Will his stance on OWS, cost him a good percentage of his support. Yes.

[Letfreedumbring]

Trump voted overwhelmingly for democrats from 1999 prior to 2008.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... g-history/

He hung out with the Clintons - they even attended his wedding in 2005. He wanted to attend the exclusively private wedding of Chelsea where surprise Ghislaine Maxwell attended as well. Who knows if he ever did or not?
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/08 ... on-wedding
http://www.chartword.com/2015/07/donald ... ffrey.html
https://people.com/celebrity/hillary-cl ... ing-photo/

Does the guy have good things that have come about because of his presidency? Of course he does but he is still one of them. Was he right about Bush, Obama, the Clintons? Of course.

David Chappelle summed it up perfectly (as posted on this forum before)
https://youtu.be/_m-gO0HSCYk?t=610

Some will say he is smart and he is playing both sides - this is Q philosophy of men mingled with fiction.
The sole reason Democrats installed Biden was because he was an enemy of their enemy which was Trump.
Let that sink in as some republicans want to do the same.

[Christianlee]

Victor Davis Hanson was one of Trump’s strongest supporters. Now he is asking, “Does Trump really want to e President again?” https://amgreatness.com/2022/12/07/does ... JMcCKnDTjE

[Christianlee]

A Wall Street Journal poll today shows Trump losing to DeSantis 52-38 in a poll of Republican voters.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... r-AA15gAE5

[Original_Intent]

A Wall Street Journal poll today shows Trump losing to DeSantis 52-38 in a poll of Republican voters.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... r-AA15gAE5

With the media push polls, the absolute loathing they have for Trump, etc. is this any surprise?

[Christianlee]

A Wall Street Journal poll today shows Trump losing to DeSantis 52-38 in a poll of Republican voters.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... r-AA15gAE5

With the media push polls, the absolute loathing they have for Trump, etc. is this any surprise?

It is more of a surprise to me that 38% still want Trump. I do not think he will be healthy enough physically to even run in 2024.

[Christianlee]

Oh my. Selling NFTs is the big announcement?

https://redstate.com/bonchie/2022/12/15 ... ng-n674044