Names of LDS presidents

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Niemand
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Names of LDS presidents

Post by Niemand »

In the post on RMN and Owl and Key, I was drawn into the issue of surnames. Now some surnames such as Smith, Young, Taylor, Lee, Hunter and even Nelson are so common as to be useless, but I thought I'd look at some recurring surnames which occur in the names of LDS presidents. (Lee and Nelson are significant surnames in military history.)

There is a curious connection with one of the founders of Skull and Bones.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_H ... on_Russell
William Huntington Russell (12 August 1809 – 19 May 1885) was an American businessman, educator, and politician. Notably, he was a co-founder of the Yale University secret society Skull and Bones, along with Alphonso Taft...
He was a descendant of several old New England families, including those of Huntington, Pierpont, Hooker, Willett, Bingham, and Russell. His ancestor, Rev. Noadiah Russell, was a founder and original trustee of Yale College. William's older cousin, Samuel Russell, founded the successful merchant trading firm Russell & Co. in 1823, but William was never associated with this firm.
Very curious this... look who we have:
* Russell M. Nelson
* Ezra Taft Benson.
* Harold Bingham Lee

RUSSELL + Udalls
Russell is a common name, but has been found often in religious circles. Charles Taze Russell was the founder of the Jehovah's Witnesses. (The JWs have a lot of Udells in their ranks, while the LDS has a lot of Udalls. Different spelling, unusual name. SWK, J. Reuben Clark and Romney are related to the Udalls.)

The name Russell pops up in many contexts. Some more relevant than others

BINGHAM
Major aristocratic name in England and Ireland. A Bingham headed up the UK's "vaccine taskforce".

TAFT
A much more unusual name, seemingly Anglo-Irish
[Tafts] have served Ohio, Massachusetts, Vermont, Rhode Island, Utah, and the United States in various positions such as U.S. Representative (two), Governor of Ohio, Governor of Rhode Island, U.S. Senator (three), U.S. Secretary of Agriculture, U.S. Attorney General, U.S. Secretary of War (two), President of the United States, and Chief Justice of the United States.
SPENCER
The name "Spencer" turns up in the names of two recent presidents: Spencer Wooley Kimball and Thomas Spencer Monson. A common name again, but the Spencers are one of the most powerful families in England. Princess Diana was famously a Spencer so the next people in line after Charles for the British throne are all part Spencers. It may be less obvious, but Winston Churchill was also largely of Spencer lineage. He arguably had more Spencer in him than Churchill and was a distant relative of Diana.

Very basic stuff. Feel free to agree or disagree. I just found this interesting. Also a curious Irish connection. The Binghams, Russells, Tafts and Spencers have all played some part in the history of Ireland, often as colonists... none of these are indigenous Irish names.
Last edited by Niemand on December 4th, 2022, 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

endlessQuestions
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Re: Names of LDS presidents

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All of history is nothing more than a story of feuding families, all seeking to increase their worldly power, prestige, influence, and wealth while grinding on the face of those who oppose them.

It sadly appears that the church may not be an exception to that rule.

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Niemand
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Re: Names of LDS presidents

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[William Huntington Russell founder of Skull and Bones] was a descendant of several old New England families, including those of Huntington, Pierpont, Hooker, Willett, Bingham, and Russell.
What about those other names mentioned here?
Huntington pops up in other contexts.
* William Huntington (1784-1846) was a notable LDS pioneer. He looked after JS' mummies for a while.
* Dimick B. Huntington son of the above, negotiator between LDS and native Americans. Patriarch of SLC, looked after JS and Hyrum's bodies after death.

Huntingtons seems to have kept a different sort of Skulls and Bones in the LDS!!!

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harakim
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Re: Names of LDS presidents

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A lot of people have the same names. And aristocratic families tend to keep producing leaders, for good or ill. I think it's a good line of study but I don't see anything here that goes beyond coincidence.

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Wondering Wendy
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Post by Wondering Wendy »

Ezra Taft Benson is a descendent of Alphonso Taft, who along with William Huntington Russell (WHR), started the Order of the Skull and Bones at Yale University in 1832 (legally it has been known as the Russell Trust Association, inc. 1856).
The reason that I gave the genealogies of the some of the Mormon Presidents to people, is that all of the Mormon Presidents in history, whether RLDS or LDS, trace their blood back to this 13th bloodline.
These are quotes from a website I posted about here:

viewtopic.php?p=1324710#p1324710

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Niemand
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Re: Names of LDS presidents

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harakim wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 10:13 am A lot of people have the same names. And aristocratic families tend to keep producing leaders, for good or ill. I think it's a good line of study but I don't see anything here that goes beyond coincidence.
If we were just talking about Smith and Young here, you might have a point. Instead we're talking about Taft and Bingham. I've never met anyone with either of these surnames. These are not common surnames at all.

logonbump
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Re: Names of LDS presidents

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(I think you meant to reference Harold Bingham Lee)

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Niemand
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Re: Names of LDS presidents

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logonbump wrote: December 4th, 2022, 2:13 pm (I think you meant to reference Harold Bingham Lee)
Amended and stowed in the "why did I write that?" file.

Bronco73idi
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Re: Names of LDS presidents

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Niemand wrote: December 4th, 2022, 2:05 pm
harakim wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 10:13 am A lot of people have the same names. And aristocratic families tend to keep producing leaders, for good or ill. I think it's a good line of study but I don't see anything here that goes beyond coincidence.
If we were just talking about Smith and Young here, you might have a point. Instead we're talking about Taft and Bingham. I've never met anyone with either of these surnames. These are not common surnames at all.
Does any name besides Smith and Young really matter? The lord doesn’t talk well of the third servant that only got one kikkar.

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Niemand
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Re: Names of LDS presidents

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Bronco73idi wrote: December 4th, 2022, 2:34 pm
Niemand wrote: December 4th, 2022, 2:05 pm
harakim wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 10:13 am A lot of people have the same names. And aristocratic families tend to keep producing leaders, for good or ill. I think it's a good line of study but I don't see anything here that goes beyond coincidence.
If we were just talking about Smith and Young here, you might have a point. Instead we're talking about Taft and Bingham. I've never met anyone with either of these surnames. These are not common surnames at all.
Does any name besides Smith and Young really matter? The lord doesn’t talk well of the third servant that only got one kikkar.
Yes, in some senses they do, because we live under the shadow of Nelson, Monson, Hinckley and all the rest.

Most of the people between Young and more recent ones don't matter in some ways, because many of their innovations have been washed away or ignored. Although I do remark on the Taft-Benson connection here, at least the man did speak out against Communism.

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harakim
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Re: Names of LDS presidents

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Niemand wrote: December 4th, 2022, 3:00 pm
Bronco73idi wrote: December 4th, 2022, 2:34 pm
Niemand wrote: December 4th, 2022, 2:05 pm
harakim wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 10:13 am A lot of people have the same names. And aristocratic families tend to keep producing leaders, for good or ill. I think it's a good line of study but I don't see anything here that goes beyond coincidence.
If we were just talking about Smith and Young here, you might have a point. Instead we're talking about Taft and Bingham. I've never met anyone with either of these surnames. These are not common surnames at all.
Does any name besides Smith and Young really matter? The lord doesn’t talk well of the third servant that only got one kikkar.
Yes, in some senses they do, because we live under the shadow of Nelson, Monson, Hinckley and all the rest.

Most of the people between Young and more recent ones don't matter in some ways, because many of their innovations have been washed away or ignored. Although I do remark on the Taft-Benson connection here, at least the man did speak out against Communism.
I have met quite a few Smiths, Youngs, Nelsons, Monsons and even Bensons. I've met a lot of Binghams in Utah, but I don't know if I have ever met one outside. I think I've met a Taft and Hinckley, but quite possibly not. So I agree those are far more rare.

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Niemand
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Re: Names of LDS presidents

Post by Niemand »

harakim wrote: December 4th, 2022, 4:57 pm
Niemand wrote: December 4th, 2022, 3:00 pm
Bronco73idi wrote: December 4th, 2022, 2:34 pm
Niemand wrote: December 4th, 2022, 2:05 pm

If we were just talking about Smith and Young here, you might have a point. Instead we're talking about Taft and Bingham. I've never met anyone with either of these surnames. These are not common surnames at all.
Does any name besides Smith and Young really matter? The lord doesn’t talk well of the third servant that only got one kikkar.
Yes, in some senses they do, because we live under the shadow of Nelson, Monson, Hinckley and all the rest.

Most of the people between Young and more recent ones don't matter in some ways, because many of their innovations have been washed away or ignored. Although I do remark on the Taft-Benson connection here, at least the man did speak out against Communism.
I have met quite a few Smiths, Youngs, Nelsons, Monsons and even Bensons. I've met a lot of Binghams in Utah, but I don't know if I have ever met one outside. I think I've met a Taft and Hinckley, but quite possibly not. So I agree those are far more rare.
Never met a Monson, Bingham or Taft. Met a Hinckley but he doesn't count because he was GBH's son.

Smiths, Youngs and Nelsons are ten a penny. Met a few Bensons as well.

Say what?
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How do you explain to someone that prophets can make mistakes; and not have them hate you for saying it?

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Enoch
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I don't know if you can they are the 'sacred cows' - I think they would swallow insulting God or Christ easier than taken it on their beloved profits -

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cab
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Re: Names of LDS presidents

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Niemand wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 7:31 am
[William Huntington Russell founder of Skull and Bones] was a descendant of several old New England families, including those of Huntington, Pierpont, Hooker, Willett, Bingham, and Russell.
What about those other names mentioned here?
Huntington pops up in other contexts.
* William Huntington (1784-1846) was a notable LDS pioneer. He looked after JS' mummies for a while.
* Dimick B. Huntington son of the above, negotiator between LDS and native Americans. Patriarch of SLC, looked after JS and Hyrum's bodies after death.

Huntingtons seems to have kept a different sort of Skulls and Bones in the LDS!!!

Dimick Huntington is a name very few members of the church know. But the more you study LDS polygamy the more you’ll find name is all over the origins of the practice. Our “history” says he was one of the trusted few in Joseph’s inner circle and was thus entrusted with the secret practice… His name is all over the 1869 affidavits, for example… I question that narrative…. I also question his role in Joseph’s demise being that he not only performed the Smith brothers’ autopsies but then was in charge of the bodies after their deaths…

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Re: Names of LDS presidents

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Say what? wrote: December 4th, 2022, 10:46 pm How do you explain to someone that prophets can make mistakes; and not have them hate you for saying it?
To members of most churches this would be a reasonable proposition. The Church of Scotland changes its Moderator every year, and they most definitely do make mistakes. The difference is that the Presbyterians do not see their leaders as infallible and they do see them as removable. Presbyterians are notorious for splitting (we have several significant varieties here other than the main Church of Scotland)... but they don't turn their leader into a demi-god.

Anglicans/Episcopalians definitely do question the role of the Archbishop of Canterbury and other leaders. I think Orthodox members question their leaders. There is currently a big row over the Ukrainian question. Even Roman Catholics, while some of them fawn over the Pope to this day, often grumble about him.

The TLDR version of this is that prophets should be treated as men. A true prophet can speak the words of the Lord, but even in the Bible, some of them like Adam, Noah, Moses and David made severe mistakes.

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cab
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Re: Names of LDS presidents

Post by cab »

Niemand wrote: December 5th, 2022, 3:32 am
Say what? wrote: December 4th, 2022, 10:46 pm How do you explain to someone that prophets can make mistakes; and not have them hate you for saying it?
To members of most churches this would be a reasonable proposition. The Church of Scotland changes its Moderator every year, and they most definitely do make mistakes. The difference is that the Presbyterians do not see their leaders as infallible and they do see them as removable. Presbyterians are notorious for splitting (we have several significant varieties here other than the main Church of Scotland)... but they don't turn their leader into a demi-god.

Anglicans/Episcopalians definitely do question the role of the Archbishop of Canterbury and other leaders. I think Orthodox members question their leaders. There is currently a big row over the Ukrainian question. Even Roman Catholics, while some of them fawn over the Pope to this day, often grumble about him.

The TLDR version of this is that prophets should be treated as men. A true prophet can speak the words of the Lord, but even in the Bible, some of them like Adam, Noah, Moses and David made severe mistakes.

It’s so true that the Catholics say their Pope is infallible but don’t really believe it, while the Mormon’s say their prophet IS fallible but don’t really believe it….

Say what?
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Re: Names of LDS presidents

Post by Say what? »

cab wrote: December 5th, 2022, 7:33 am
Niemand wrote: December 5th, 2022, 3:32 am
Say what? wrote: December 4th, 2022, 10:46 pm How do you explain to someone that prophets can make mistakes; and not have them hate you for saying it?
To members of most churches this would be a reasonable proposition. The Church of Scotland changes its Moderator every year, and they most definitely do make mistakes. The difference is that the Presbyterians do not see their leaders as infallible and they do see them as removable. Presbyterians are notorious for splitting (we have several significant varieties here other than the main Church of Scotland)... but they don't turn their leader into a demi-god.

Anglicans/Episcopalians definitely do question the role of the Archbishop of Canterbury and other leaders. I think Orthodox members question their leaders. There is currently a big row over the Ukrainian question. Even Roman Catholics, while some of them fawn over the Pope to this day, often grumble about him.

The TLDR version of this is that prophets should be treated as men. A true prophet can speak the words of the Lord, but even in the Bible, some of them like Adam, Noah, Moses and David made severe mistakes.

It’s so true that the Catholics say their Pope is infallible but don’t really believe it, while the Mormon’s say their prophet IS fallible but don’t really believe it….
Your holiness.(It.bothers.me)

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Re: Names of LDS presidents

Post by Light Seeker »

Say what? wrote: December 5th, 2022, 5:20 pm
cab wrote: December 5th, 2022, 7:33 am
Niemand wrote: December 5th, 2022, 3:32 am
Say what? wrote: December 4th, 2022, 10:46 pm How do you explain to someone that prophets can make mistakes; and not have them hate you for saying it?
To members of most churches this would be a reasonable proposition. The Church of Scotland changes its Moderator every year, and they most definitely do make mistakes. The difference is that the Presbyterians do not see their leaders as infallible and they do see them as removable. Presbyterians are notorious for splitting (we have several significant varieties here other than the main Church of Scotland)... but they don't turn their leader into a demi-god.

Anglicans/Episcopalians definitely do question the role of the Archbishop of Canterbury and other leaders. I think Orthodox members question their leaders. There is currently a big row over the Ukrainian question. Even Roman Catholics, while some of them fawn over the Pope to this day, often grumble about him.

The TLDR version of this is that prophets should be treated as men. A true prophet can speak the words of the Lord, but even in the Bible, some of them like Adam, Noah, Moses and David made severe mistakes.

It’s so true that the Catholics say their Pope is infallible but don’t really believe it, while the Mormon’s say their prophet IS fallible but don’t really believe it….
Your holiness.(It.bothers.me)

It really bothered me when Nelson called him “ his holiness “.

I always goes back to that one .

Why would the supposed prophet of the Lord call anyone his holiness ?


Some people would say I’m over reacting but I find it rather disgusting .

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Niemand
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Re: Names of LDS presidents

Post by Niemand »

Light Seeker wrote: January 6th, 2023, 3:58 pm Why would the supposed prophet of the Lord call anyone his holiness ?
Did the Bishop of Rome return the favour and refer to Nelson as "the prophet"? Rhetorical question, don't bother to answer, we know already.

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