World cup

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Robin Hood
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Re: World cup

Post by Robin Hood »

Niemand wrote: November 30th, 2022, 2:48 am
Robin Hood wrote: November 30th, 2022, 2:20 am
Niemand wrote: November 29th, 2022, 4:55 pm
Robin Hood wrote: November 29th, 2022, 4:42 pm

I took my 4 year old grandson to his first game a few weeks ago. It was absolutely brilliant.
He joined in the singing and even got himself on the official club match day photo's.
It helped that we won 3-1.
I wouldn't take kids near any high level club games. Maybe second division or smaller local teams, because those games tend to have friendlier crowds.

It's not even a class thing since I've seen working class rugby league, hurling and ice hockey fans and never felt uncomfortable among them. I've been to the dog track in Manchester and loved it. Boozy football fans are not good to be around. I don't know any other sport around here where fans kill each other or beat each other up.

That and football games being overpriced these days. Hundreds of pounds for a season ticket.
It very much depends on the club and level at which they operate.
My team is Notts County... enough said.
I haven't heard any bad things about Notts County fans.
I remember as a teenager I used to stand on the terraces at Notts with our equivalent of ultras.
We used to chant:
"We are the lads in black & white,
We love to sing and we love to fight.
... so let's sing".

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David13
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Re: World cup

Post by David13 »

Once upon a time many years ago, I was at the Opera House in San Francisco to see, well, I don't remember the opera, but we were all in line to get in.

Two men started arguing about who was next in line for another line, the standby ticket line, I believe. They nearly came to blows, or it seemed like they were about to.

A young man, who looked like he was from Japan, said, with a slight perhaps Japanese accent, in a fairly loud voice, "The people in San Francisco are very serious about their opera."

The people (or at least young men) in England are very serious about their soccer.
dc

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Cruiserdude
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Re: World cup

Post by Cruiserdude »

We're down two - nil at half time against Netherlands....

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Cruiserdude
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Re: World cup

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Was thinking we had a chance at a draw..... Until we just allowed goal number 3 to the Orange....

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Cruiserdude
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Re: World cup

Post by Cruiserdude »

US was knocked out of the tournament earlier so we're pulling for Messi and Argentina.... Vamos Argentina!! Argentina up 2-0 on Australia with about 30 minutes remaining in the match

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Subcomandante
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Re: World cup

Post by Subcomandante »

Cruiserdude wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 1:23 pm US was knocked out of the tournament earlier so we're pulling for Messi and Argentina.... Vamos Argentina!! Argentina up 2-0 on Australia with about 30 minutes remaining in the match
ARG-NED should be an interesting quarterfinal. ARG-BRA will be even more interesting in the semis should Argentina go through.

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Robin Hood
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Re: World cup

Post by Robin Hood »

Ever since 1982 I have always taken pleasure in Argentina losing.
This year is no different.

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Subcomandante
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Re: World cup

Post by Subcomandante »

Robin Hood wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 4:20 pm Ever since 1982 I have always taken pleasure in Argentina losing.
This year is no different.
Yeah the Argentinians are STILL burned over the Falklands War...still insisting that "Las Malvinas" belong to them.

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Niemand
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Re: World cup

Post by Niemand »

Subcomandante wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 4:34 pm
Robin Hood wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 4:20 pm Ever since 1982 I have always taken pleasure in Argentina losing.
This year is no different.
Yeah the Argentinians are STILL burned over the Falklands War...still insisting that "Las Malvinas" belong to them.
The irony is that relations between the islands and Argentina were improving through the seventies... and then Argentina went and alienated the entire population by subjugating them.

On your last note, no, I wouldn't like to see a South American final... it's a bit of a cliché.

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Robin Hood
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Re: World cup

Post by Robin Hood »

England 3-0 Senegal

England play France in the quarter-final on Saturday.

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nightlight
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Re: World cup

Post by nightlight »

Robin Hood wrote: December 4th, 2022, 2:41 pm England 3-0 Senegal

England play France in the quarter-final on Saturday.
I hope you guys win the tournament

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Luke
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Re: World cup

Post by Luke »

nightlight wrote: December 4th, 2022, 2:43 pm
Robin Hood wrote: December 4th, 2022, 2:41 pm England 3-0 Senegal

England play France in the quarter-final on Saturday.
I hope you guys win the tournament
You’re on the right side of history my mate 😉

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Niemand
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Re: World cup

Post by Niemand »

If England win it, we'll never hear the end of it for the next fifty years.

As for Scotland, yah boo sucks. Can't even qualify.

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Robin Hood
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Re: World cup

Post by Robin Hood »

Niemand wrote: December 4th, 2022, 3:03 pm If England win it, we'll never hear the end of it for the next fifty years.

As for Scotland, yah boo sucks. Can't even qualify.
Scotland's problem is they're fixated on beating England.
They could lose heavily to the Faroe Isles, Jersey, and the Dog & Duck... but beat England and all is forgiven.
They started to move out of this mindset in the 1970's and qualified for the World Cup in 1974, 1978, and again in 1982. They had some excellent players in those days and were a force to be reckoned with.
But this fixation with England has seriously handicapped their progress as a footballing nation.
The same was true of Ireland to a certain extent. Once they realised that beating England wasn't the be all and end all, they made real progress on the world stage. And appointing an Englishman as manager helped enormously.
Perhaps there's a lesson there for Scotland.

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Niemand
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Re: World cup

Post by Niemand »

Robin Hood wrote: December 4th, 2022, 3:21 pm
Niemand wrote: December 4th, 2022, 3:03 pm If England win it, we'll never hear the end of it for the next fifty years.

As for Scotland, yah boo sucks. Can't even qualify.
Scotland's problem is they're fixated on beating England.
They could lose heavily to the Faroe Isles, Jersey, and the Dog & Duck... but beat England and all is forgiven.
They started to move out of this mindset in the 1970's and qualified for the World Cup in 1974, 1978, and again in 1982. They had some excellent players in those days and were a force to be reckoned with.
But this fixation with England has seriously handicapped their progress as a footballing nation.
The same was true of Ireland to a certain extent. Once they realised that beating England wasn't the be all and end all, they made real progress on the world stage. And appointing an Englishman as manager helped enormously.
Perhaps there's a lesson there for Scotland.
Scotland could barely kick their way out of a paper bag. They play England far less often than their rugby equivalents do (who are much more entertaining to watch) so I don't think it's really the main issue.

The biggest hindrance to Scottish progress in my lifetime has been the fall of the Iron Curtain. Up til then they'd qualify much more often. The Soviet Union, Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia all broke up and producing multiple decent teams which tend to stop Scotland from qualifying at European level. There are also issues with infrastructure, biased referees (cough, Hugh Dallas) and things too long to go into.

Most of the TV, radio and newspapers we get here are actually English and come with that bias. England tends to be good at various sports but not as good as their media claims they are. On the other hand, Scotland just tend to be rubbish so the fans are grateful for when they win.

That said the TV licence revenue gathered in Scotland goes to subsidise English football, with Gary Lineker being paid more by the BBC than the entire SFA does. (The SPL also gets 1/60 the money the EPL does from the BBC, which is not even proportionate to the population difference.) I can't claim to be part of that as I have boycotted their licence fee for 15 years now... for reasons like that and probably a few you'd sympathise with as well like wokeness and anti-Christian poison.

p.s. If there is a lesson from Ireland, it's a) don't have a soccer monoculture, b) develop your own media and c) distribute resources outside your main city.

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Robin Hood
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Re: World cup

Post by Robin Hood »

Niemand wrote: December 4th, 2022, 6:45 pm
Robin Hood wrote: December 4th, 2022, 3:21 pm
Niemand wrote: December 4th, 2022, 3:03 pm If England win it, we'll never hear the end of it for the next fifty years.

As for Scotland, yah boo sucks. Can't even qualify.
Scotland's problem is they're fixated on beating England.
They could lose heavily to the Faroe Isles, Jersey, and the Dog & Duck... but beat England and all is forgiven.
They started to move out of this mindset in the 1970's and qualified for the World Cup in 1974, 1978, and again in 1982. They had some excellent players in those days and were a force to be reckoned with.
But this fixation with England has seriously handicapped their progress as a footballing nation.
The same was true of Ireland to a certain extent. Once they realised that beating England wasn't the be all and end all, they made real progress on the world stage. And appointing an Englishman as manager helped enormously.
Perhaps there's a lesson there for Scotland.
Scotland could barely kick their way out of a paper bag. They play England far less often than their rugby equivalents do (who are much more entertaining to watch) so I don't think it's really the main issue.

The biggest hindrance to Scottish progress in my lifetime has been the fall of the Iron Curtain. Up til then they'd qualify much more often. The Soviet Union, Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia all broke up and producing multiple decent teams which tend to stop Scotland from qualifying at European level. There are also issues with infrastructure, biased referees (cough, Hugh Dallas) and things too long to go into.

Most of the TV, radio and newspapers we get here are actually English and come with that bias. England tends to be good at various sports but not as good as their media claims they are. On the other hand, Scotland just tend to be rubbish so the fans are grateful for when they win.

That said the TV licence revenue gathered in Scotland goes to subsidise English football, with Gary Lineker being paid more by the BBC than the entire SFA does. (The SPL also gets 1/60 the money the EPL does from the BBC, which is not even proportionate to the population difference.) I can't claim to be part of that as I have boycotted their licence fee for 15 years now... for reasons like that and probably a few you'd sympathise with as well like wokeness and anti-Christian poison.

p.s. If there is a lesson from Ireland, it's a) don't have a soccer monoculture, b) develop your own media and c) distribute resources outside your main city.
Our problem is that we think we should be challenging to be world champions at everything. Football, Rugby, Cricket.
Germany are very good at football and nothing else.
Same goes for Brazil, or Italy.
But we spread our resources too thin.
Having said that, we have become world champions in all three team sports at various times.

I fail to see why the distribution of the BBC licence fee would affect the performance of Scottish teams. I know grievance politics is vougue in Scotland these days (everything is England's fault... apparently), but even by that standard this seems a rather tenuous claim.

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Niemand
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Re: World cup

Post by Niemand »

Robin Hood wrote: December 5th, 2022, 12:57 am Our problem is that we think we should be challenging to be world champions at everything. Football, Rugby, Cricket.
Germany are very good at football and nothing else.
Same goes for Brazil, or Italy.
But we spread our resources too thin.
Having said that, we have become world champions in all three team sports at various times.
To be fair Germany have been successful in other areas. One that springs to mind is handball (which barely registers on our radar)... and certain other areas such as skiing, Formula One and so on. Ice hockey I think as well. German cricket's never really taken off. German rugby... bizarrely it does have some of the oldest clubs in the world and has had some famous players (Albert Speer and Goering!), but most Germans are unaware of its existence.

Germany's football has had a disparity. When reunification happened, the East German clubs were excluded from the Bundesliga. It's taken decades for the eastern football clubs to bounce back.
Australia and New Zealand make for interesting contrasts.

Australia seems to be good at many things, despite like Ireland having its own major sport almost no one else plays. They ignore soccer, but play both forms of rugby well, cricket, yachting and have some decent individual athletes elsewhere. I put that down to climate.

New Zealand have gone the opposite way... specialisation. They have the best rugby union team out there, but little else. Their rugby league is decent, but that's similar to RU. Their cricket is indifferent and their football dismal. The only other areas I can think of them doing well in are yachting and women's netball. (Ireland supports a wider range of sports than NZ - rugby union, Gaelic football, soccer, hurling, horse racing, boxing - but has a dismal Olympic showing.)
I fail to see why the distribution of the BBC licence fee would affect the performance of Scottish teams. I know grievance politics is vougue in Scotland these days (everything is England's fault... apparently), but even by that standard this seems a rather tenuous claim.
We're continually told that Scotland is subsidised by the British media, when there are numerous examples to the contrary that are never factored in, because it doesn't suit the "white man's burden" argument for unionism that is continually trotted out. (Kipling's phrase.) This is just one of them. Buy a TV licence in Scotland, and you'll end up putting more money into Gary Lineker alone than the entire Scottish football infrastructure. I don't particularly dislike Lineker but I've no wish to keep him in a multimillion pound salary – that could be paid from advertising and voluntary subscriptions elsewhere.

In footballing terms, there is no "white man's burden" when it comes to BBC funding. The amount that the BBC spends on Scottish football is a sixtieth of what it gives to English football. If all the money goes into one big collective UK pot and we based it on population alone, then that figure should be around a tenth, not a sixtieth. So Scottish football fans are paying more for English football than vice versa.

Scottish football infrastructure is woefully underfunded and broadcast rights are a major proportion of most smaller countries' football funding. The SFA is pretty corrupt, truth be told, but the SFA and SPL and lower leagues would benefit from additional funds if the BBC money raised in Scotland was ring fenced for this purpose.

You mention the Republic of Ireland... the difference is there that when people buy their TV licence there, their money is put into local soccer (although I'm betting Gaelic football probably gets more money off RTÉ than soccer, but that's another matter.) If people in Ireland want to watch English soccer, they can buy a Sky subscription voluntarily instead of being forced into it.

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Robin Hood
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Re: World cup

Post by Robin Hood »

Niemand wrote: December 5th, 2022, 3:24 am
Robin Hood wrote: December 5th, 2022, 12:57 am Our problem is that we think we should be challenging to be world champions at everything. Football, Rugby, Cricket.
Germany are very good at football and nothing else.
Same goes for Brazil, or Italy.
But we spread our resources too thin.
Having said that, we have become world champions in all three team sports at various times.
To be fair Germany have been successful in other areas. One that springs to mind is handball (which barely registers on our radar)... and certain other areas such as skiing, Formula One and so on. Ice hockey I think as well. German cricket's never really taken off. German rugby... bizarrely it does have some of the oldest clubs in the world and has had some famous players (Albert Speer and Goering!), but most Germans are unaware of its existence.

Germany's football has had a disparity. When reunification happened, the East German clubs were excluded from the Bundesliga. It's taken decades for the eastern football clubs to bounce back.
Australia and New Zealand make for interesting contrasts.

Australia seems to be good at many things, despite like Ireland having its own major sport almost no one else plays. They ignore soccer, but play both forms of rugby well, cricket, yachting and have some decent individual athletes elsewhere. I put that down to climate.

New Zealand have gone the opposite way... specialisation. They have the best rugby union team out there, but little else. Their rugby league is decent, but that's similar to RU. Their cricket is indifferent and their football dismal. The only other areas I can think of them doing well in are yachting and women's netball. (Ireland supports a wider range of sports than NZ - rugby union, Gaelic football, soccer, hurling, horse racing, boxing - but has a dismal Olympic showing.)
I fail to see why the distribution of the BBC licence fee would affect the performance of Scottish teams. I know grievance politics is vougue in Scotland these days (everything is England's fault... apparently), but even by that standard this seems a rather tenuous claim.
We're continually told that Scotland is subsidised by the British media, when there are numerous examples to the contrary that are never factored in, because it doesn't suit the "white man's burden" argument for unionism that is continually trotted out. (Kipling's phrase.) This is just one of them. Buy a TV licence in Scotland, and you'll end up putting more money into Gary Lineker alone than the entire Scottish football infrastructure. I don't particularly dislike Lineker but I've no wish to keep him in a multimillion pound salary – that could be paid from advertising and voluntary subscriptions elsewhere.

In footballing terms, there is no "white man's burden" when it comes to BBC funding. The amount that the BBC spends on Scottish football is a sixtieth of what it gives to English football. If all the money goes into one big collective UK pot and we based it on population alone, then that figure should be around a tenth, not a sixtieth. So Scottish football fans are paying more for English football than vice versa.

Scottish football infrastructure is woefully underfunded and broadcast rights are a major proportion of most smaller countries' football funding. The SFA is pretty corrupt, truth be told, but the SFA and SPL and lower leagues would benefit from additional funds if the BBC money raised in Scotland was ring fenced for this purpose.

You mention the Republic of Ireland... the difference is there that when people buy their TV licence there, their money is put into local soccer (although I'm betting Gaelic football probably gets more money off RTÉ than soccer, but that's another matter.) If people in Ireland want to watch English soccer, they can buy a Sky subscription voluntarily instead of being forced into it.
When I lived north of the border (admittedly a long time ago) I found that Match of the Day showing top flight English games was more popular than Sportscene or whatever the Scottish equivalent was called.
Most people I knew followed an English team as well as their Scottish favourite. It was not uncommon, when asked who they support, to receive the answer "Rangers and Man Utd" or something similar. Celtic and Liverpool appeared to be a popular combination (which is odd considering Liverpool were the Protestant team - Everton were Catholic).
The problem with the Scottish domestic leagues is that they haven't really sold their "product" in terms of TV deals, like the EPL have. I think part of the problem is the dominance of the Old Firm.
I know it's counterintuitive, but I actually think Scottish football would benefit from Celtic and Rangers joining the EPL. It would free up the remaining clubs to reinvent the "product" without having the Old Firm breathing down their necks and continually throwing their weight around.
It would be quite a culture shock for Celtic and Rangers though.

With regard to international success, I was limiting my observations to team field sports.

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Great8
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Re: World cup

Post by Great8 »

Allez Les Bleues!!!!

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Niemand
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Re: World cup

Post by Niemand »

Robin Hood wrote: December 5th, 2022, 7:14 am
Niemand wrote: December 5th, 2022, 3:24 am
Robin Hood wrote: December 5th, 2022, 12:57 am Our problem is that we think we should be challenging to be world champions at everything. Football, Rugby, Cricket.
Germany are very good at football and nothing else.
Same goes for Brazil, or Italy.
But we spread our resources too thin.
Having said that, we have become world champions in all three team sports at various times.
To be fair Germany have been successful in other areas. One that springs to mind is handball (which barely registers on our radar)... and certain other areas such as skiing, Formula One and so on. Ice hockey I think as well. German cricket's never really taken off. German rugby... bizarrely it does have some of the oldest clubs in the world and has had some famous players (Albert Speer and Goering!), but most Germans are unaware of its existence.

Germany's football has had a disparity. When reunification happened, the East German clubs were excluded from the Bundesliga. It's taken decades for the eastern football clubs to bounce back.
Australia and New Zealand make for interesting contrasts.

Australia seems to be good at many things, despite like Ireland having its own major sport almost no one else plays. They ignore soccer, but play both forms of rugby well, cricket, yachting and have some decent individual athletes elsewhere. I put that down to climate.

New Zealand have gone the opposite way... specialisation. They have the best rugby union team out there, but little else. Their rugby league is decent, but that's similar to RU. Their cricket is indifferent and their football dismal. The only other areas I can think of them doing well in are yachting and women's netball. (Ireland supports a wider range of sports than NZ - rugby union, Gaelic football, soccer, hurling, horse racing, boxing - but has a dismal Olympic showing.)
I fail to see why the distribution of the BBC licence fee would affect the performance of Scottish teams. I know grievance politics is vougue in Scotland these days (everything is England's fault... apparently), but even by that standard this seems a rather tenuous claim.
We're continually told that Scotland is subsidised by the British media, when there are numerous examples to the contrary that are never factored in, because it doesn't suit the "white man's burden" argument for unionism that is continually trotted out. (Kipling's phrase.) This is just one of them. Buy a TV licence in Scotland, and you'll end up putting more money into Gary Lineker alone than the entire Scottish football infrastructure. I don't particularly dislike Lineker but I've no wish to keep him in a multimillion pound salary – that could be paid from advertising and voluntary subscriptions elsewhere.

In footballing terms, there is no "white man's burden" when it comes to BBC funding. The amount that the BBC spends on Scottish football is a sixtieth of what it gives to English football. If all the money goes into one big collective UK pot and we based it on population alone, then that figure should be around a tenth, not a sixtieth. So Scottish football fans are paying more for English football than vice versa.

Scottish football infrastructure is woefully underfunded and broadcast rights are a major proportion of most smaller countries' football funding. The SFA is pretty corrupt, truth be told, but the SFA and SPL and lower leagues would benefit from additional funds if the BBC money raised in Scotland was ring fenced for this purpose.

You mention the Republic of Ireland... the difference is there that when people buy their TV licence there, their money is put into local soccer (although I'm betting Gaelic football probably gets more money off RTÉ than soccer, but that's another matter.) If people in Ireland want to watch English soccer, they can buy a Sky subscription voluntarily instead of being forced into it.
When I lived north of the border (admittedly a long time ago) I found that Match of the Day showing top flight English games was more popular than Sportscene or whatever the Scottish equivalent was called.
Most people I knew followed an English team as well as their Scottish favourite. It was not uncommon, when asked who they support, to receive the answer "Rangers and Man Utd" or something similar. Celtic and Liverpool appeared to be a popular combination (which is odd considering Liverpool were the Protestant team - Everton were Catholic).
The problem with the Scottish domestic leagues is that they haven't really sold their "product" in terms of TV deals, like the EPL have. I think part of the problem is the dominance of the Old Firm.
I know it's counterintuitive, but I actually think Scottish football would benefit from Celtic and Rangers joining the EPL. It would free up the remaining clubs to reinvent the "product" without having the Old Firm breathing down their necks and continually throwing their weight around.
It would be quite a culture shock for Celtic and Rangers though.

With regard to international success, I was limiting my observations to team field sports.
I've thought about the Old Firm thing before and there are two obvious outcomes:
* The rest of Scottish football benefits. Possible.
* Or alternatively where we end up with the Welsh situation where the best clubs play in the English leagues and the rest of the clubs don't really benefit.

That said, Wales qualified and Scotland didn't.

The Old Firm are a very toxic brand and are even called "Scotland's Shame" among the chattering classes. I'm aware the English clubs have issues – like Millwall etc, but none of them are so entangled with the nastiest aspects of Northern Irish politics. Hearts, Hibs, Motherwell, Dundee and Dundee United all have some sectarian elements but they're not to the front in the same way.

Celtic has a terrible victim mentality (so has Liverpool a wee bit), even Rangers to some extent. Rangers has suffered from corrupt administration – not just a matter of whether some are "good businessmen", but whether some are businessmen at all.

The Germans seem to have their heads screwed on about football club ownership. I think a lot of them are "fan owned" (supposedly). We could do with more of that here, England included.

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Cruiserdude
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Re: World cup

Post by Cruiserdude »

This keeper from Croatia has played an amazing game! Now for it all to go down to the free kicks!! What a match!

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Cruiserdude
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Re: World cup

Post by Cruiserdude »

Cruiserdude wrote: December 9th, 2022, 10:41 am This keeper from Croatia has played an amazing game! Now for it all to go down to the free kicks!! What a match!
This goalie is unreal!

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Cruiserdude
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Re: World cup

Post by Cruiserdude »

Argentina goal keeper is UNBELIEVABLE!

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Cruiserdude
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Re: World cup

Post by Cruiserdude »

Get ready for some English football! England vs France, this should be a great match

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Niemand
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Re: World cup

Post by Niemand »

Sorry to see England lost. Didn't see the game as I was at an event. Questionable video ref decisions I hear.

Portugal also lost against Morocco.

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