What is the Eternal Round?

For discussing the Church, Gospel of Jesus Christ, Mormonism, etc.
User avatar
SJR3t2
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2621
Contact:

What is the Eternal Round?

Post by SJR3t2 »

The Eternal Round is a phrase thrown around by people to give support to all kinds of ideas that contradict the scriptures. I hope and pray as we take the time to look at the 1828 Webster's Dictionary and the scriptures that use this phrase it will be come clear in our minds what is being communicated with it.
https://seekingyhwh.org/2022/12/03/what ... nal-round/

Letfreedumbring
captain of 100
Posts: 267

Re: What is the Eternal Round?

Post by Letfreedumbring »

For some an eternal round is having the same topics talked about in general conference and acting like they heard new revelations in sunday school based on those talks.

User avatar
SJR3t2
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2621
Contact:

Re: What is the Eternal Round?

Post by SJR3t2 »

Letfreedumbring wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 9:38 pm For some an eternal round is having the same topics talked about in general conference and acting like they heard new revelations in sunday school based on those talks.
lol, that is funny but that is not how it is defined in the scriptures

onefour1
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1596

Re: What is the Eternal Round?

Post by onefour1 »

Perhaps it refers to going from eternity to mortality and then back to eternity without any varying in the course of how it is to be accomplished.

User avatar
Lexew1899
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3556
Location: USA

Re: What is the Eternal Round?

Post by Lexew1899 »

Light and knowledge. Or intelligence.

Letfreedumbring
captain of 100
Posts: 267

Re: What is the Eternal Round?

Post by Letfreedumbring »

onefour1 wrote: December 4th, 2022, 12:58 pm Perhaps it refers to going from eternity to mortality and then back to eternity without any varying in the course of how it is to be accomplished.
^ This

The Eternal Round phrasing represents the consistency of God's purposes and standards.
It is repeatable wherever it is found. If we could say you are what you do, then that would apply here.
One can trust God because we know that his work has becomes a part of his character and vice versa.

"[God] cannot walk in crooked paths; neither doth he vary from that which he hath said; neither hath he a shadow of turning from the right to the left, or from that which is right to that which is wrong; therefore, his course is one eternal round. And he doth not dwell in unholy temples; neither can filthiness or anything which is unclean be received into the kingdom of God; therefore I say unto you the time shall come, yea, and it shall be at the last day, that he who is filthy shall remain in his filthiness.” (Alma 7:20-21)

User avatar
Robin Hood
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 13112
Location: England

Re: What is the Eternal Round?

Post by Robin Hood »

Letfreedumbring wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 9:38 pm For some an eternal round is having the same topics talked about in general conference and acting like they heard new revelations in sunday school based on those talks.
🤣🤣🤣👍

User avatar
ransomme
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4014

Re: What is the Eternal Round?

Post by ransomme »

Everlasting fullness
Unchanging truth
Eternal perfection

User avatar
SJR3t2
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2621
Contact:

Re: What is the Eternal Round?

Post by SJR3t2 »

onefour1 wrote: December 4th, 2022, 12:58 pm Perhaps it refers to going from eternity to mortality and then back to eternity without any varying in the course of how it is to be accomplished.
That is what I show in the post using scriptures using the phrase

User avatar
Thinker
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 12975
Location: The Universe - wherever that is.

Re: What is the Eternal Round?

Post by Thinker »

Letfreedumbring wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 9:38 pm For some an eternal round is having the same topics talked about in general conference and acting like they heard new revelations in sunday school based on those talks.
:lol:
“It’s not 1 darn thing after another, it’s 1 darn thing over & over.”

User avatar
Thinker
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 12975
Location: The Universe - wherever that is.

Re: What is the Eternal Round?

Post by Thinker »

SJR3t2 wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 6:40 am The Eternal Round is a phrase thrown around by people to give support to all kinds of ideas that contradict the scriptures. I hope and pray as we take the time to look at the 1828 Webster's Dictionary and the scriptures that use this phrase it will be come clear in our minds what is being communicated with it.
https://seekingyhwh.org/2022/12/03/what ... nal-round/
I love topics like this! Thanks for bringing this up.

As with anything, there are multiple points of view. In fact, that just may be a major part of this notion of “eternal round” and spiral dynamics (ie: https://abouthappylife.com/spiral-dynamics/). You start out metaphorically at the bottom - like Adam & Eve symbolized - kinda naive. Then you make your way up but it kinda turns in a loop to integrate what you experienced before so you can build something substantial. Somewhat like parents empathically relive childhood through their kids eyes - a new perspective but of the same thing.

Also, we’re not perfect, & tend to take 2 steps forward 1 step back - which God probably considers is part of the deal & allows us to circle back to make sure we learn all we can before spiraling upward and onward.

Eternal is defined (at least by some) as “beyond time.” This could get really weird into the quantum realm, but for most, it’s just being present, enjoying or engaging in the current state. We really don’t time travel, though our minds like to pretend to travel to the future &/or past, neglecting the only current moldeable reality - now.

User avatar
SJR3t2
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2621
Contact:

Re: What is the Eternal Round?

Post by SJR3t2 »

Thinker wrote: December 5th, 2022, 4:44 pm
SJR3t2 wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 6:40 am The Eternal Round is a phrase thrown around by people to give support to all kinds of ideas that contradict the scriptures. I hope and pray as we take the time to look at the 1828 Webster's Dictionary and the scriptures that use this phrase it will be come clear in our minds what is being communicated with it.
https://seekingyhwh.org/2022/12/03/what ... nal-round/
I love topics like this! Thanks for bringing this up.

As with anything, there are multiple points of view. In fact, that just may be a major part of this notion of “eternal round” and spiral dynamics (ie: https://abouthappylife.com/spiral-dynamics/). You start out metaphorically at the bottom - like Adam & Eve symbolized - kinda naive. Then you make your way up but it kinda turns in a loop to integrate what you experienced before so you can build something substantial. Somewhat like parents empathically relive childhood through their kids eyes - a new perspective but of the same thing.

Also, we’re not perfect, & tend to take 2 steps forward 1 step back - which God probably considers is part of the deal & allows us to circle back to make sure we learn all we can before spiraling upward and onward.

Eternal is defined (at least by some) as “beyond time.” This could get really weird into the quantum realm, but for most, it’s just being present, enjoying or engaging in the current state. We really don’t time travel, though our minds like to pretend to travel to the future &/or past, neglecting the only current moldeable reality - now.
There is depth to the scriptures yes, https://seekingyhwh.org/resources/pardes/. But if the deeper levels contradict the surface level it's not true. Truth does not contradict itself.

Scriptures are not for private interpretation. We are to go to YHWH for understanding and part of that is going to the basics in what YHWH has already taught and how He has used terms which includes using them how they are in the dictionary. Otherwise you can get anything from anything, and sadly people do exactly that.

What dictionary defines eternal as beyond time? I don't believe in quantum science. I honestly believe it stems from Kabbalah https://seekingyhwh.org/resources/kabbalah/ which I also don't believe in.

User avatar
marc
Disciple of Jesus Christ
Posts: 10354
Contact:

Re: What is the Eternal Round?

Post by marc »

"Paul ascended into the third Heavens and he could understand the three principal rounds of Jacob’s Ladder, the Telestial, the Terrestrial and the Celestial glories or Kingdoms, where Paul saw and heard things which were not lawful for him to utter. I could explain a hundred fold more than I ever have, of the glories of the Kingdoms manifested to me in the vision, were I permitted, and were the people prepared to receive it..."

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper ... y-1843/199

User avatar
ransomme
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4014

Re: What is the Eternal Round?

Post by ransomme »

There are five instances in the scriptures, 3 in the BoM & 2 in D&C, that use the phrase "eternal round" and in each instance the phrase is paralleled with one of two versions of its meaning:

A - twice: "the same yesterday, today and forever" and "in these times as in times of old, and as well in times of old as in times to come"

B - thrice: straight paths, not crooked, not to the right or to the left.

The meaning seems fairly clear:

Eternal/Everlasting Unwavering Truth



Examples of A:

1 Nephi 10:19For he that diligently seeketh shall find; and the mysteries of God shall be unfolded unto them, by the power of the Holy Ghost, as well in these times as in times of old, and as well in times of old as in times to come; wherefore, the course of the Lord is one eternal round.

D&C 35:Listen to the voice of the Lord your God, even Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, whose course is one eternal round, the same today as yesterday, and forever.

Examples of B:

Alma 7:20I perceive that it has been made known unto you, by the testimony of his word, that he cannot walk in crooked paths; neither doth he vary from that which he hath said; neither hath he a shadow of turning from the right to the left, or from that which is right to that which is wrong; therefore, his course is one eternal round.

Alma 37:12And it may suffice if I only say they are preserved for a wise purpose, which purpose is known unto God; for he doth counsel in wisdom over all his works, and his paths are straight, and his course is one eternal round.

D&C 3:2For God doth not walk in crooked paths, neither doth he turn to the right hand nor to the left, neither doth he vary from that which he hath said, therefore his paths are straight, and his course is one eternal round.

User avatar
FrankOne
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2831

Re: What is the Eternal Round?

Post by FrankOne »

. not formatted. going to redo.

User avatar
FrankOne
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2831

Re: What is the Eternal Round?

Post by FrankOne »

Thinker wrote: December 5th, 2022, 4:44 pm
SJR3t2 wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 6:40 am The Eternal Round is a phrase thrown around by people to give support to all kinds of ideas that contradict the scriptures. I hope and pray as we take the time to look at the 1828 Webster's Dictionary and the scriptures that use this phrase it will be come clear in our minds what is being communicated with it.
https://seekingyhwh.org/2022/12/03/what ... nal-round/
I love topics like this! Thanks for bringing this up.

As with anything, there are multiple points of view. In fact, that just may be a major part of this notion of “eternal round”

Eternal is defined (at least by some) as “beyond time.” This could get really weird into the quantum realm, but for most, it’s just being present, enjoying or engaging in the current state. We really don’t time travel, though our minds like to pretend to travel to the future &/or past, neglecting the only current moldeable reality - now.
So, we have the term eternal and then we have the term round.

My perspective matches these scriptures here of what eternal means. Note the word "mystery". He is telling them that he is revealing something that is a mystery to most, but he is expecting his apostles to understand it This scripture redefines many different terms that are described as 'eternal'. My understanding is that salvation, as known to the masses is not truly comprehended. The process of Sin-Repentance-Forgiveness. God's definition of eternal could be from one second to trillions upon trillions of years. or....something else completely. We assign a value of time to the term eternal. Does God?

What does God mean "so that it can work upon the hearts of men?" Endless punishment instills fear. Fear motivates men.


D&C 19

4 And surely every man must repent or suffer, for I, God, am endless.

5 Wherefore, I revoke not the judgments which I shall pass, but woes shall go forth, weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth, yea, to those who are found on my cleft hand.

6 Nevertheless, it is not written that there shall be no end to this torment, but it is written endless torment.

7 Again, it is written eternal damnation; wherefore it is more express than other scriptures, that it might work upon the hearts of the children of men, altogether for my name’s glory.

8 Wherefore, I will explain unto you this mystery, for it is meet unto you to know even as mine apostles.

9 I speak unto you that are chosen in this thing, even as one, that you may enter into my rest.

10 For, behold, the mystery of godliness, how great is it! For, behold, I am endless, and the punishment which is given from my hand is endless punishment, for Endless is my name. Wherefore—

11 Eternal punishment is God’s punishment.

12 Endless punishment is God’s punishment.

edited to add

User avatar
BruceRGilbert
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1472
Location: Near the "City of Trees," Idaho

Re: What is the Eternal Round?

Post by BruceRGilbert »

Staircase Simile.jpg
Staircase Simile.jpg (170.51 KiB) Viewed 660 times

moving2zion
captain of 100
Posts: 550

Re: What is the Eternal Round?

Post by moving2zion »

Patience, with the generation before you, and the generation after you, and the ones you will be trying your best to have patience with after that!

User avatar
SJR3t2
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2621
Contact:

Re: What is the Eternal Round?

Post by SJR3t2 »

marc wrote: December 6th, 2022, 1:13 pm "Paul ascended into the third Heavens and he could understand the three principal rounds of Jacob’s Ladder, the Telestial, the Terrestrial and the Celestial glories or Kingdoms, where Paul saw and heard things which were not lawful for him to utter. I could explain a hundred fold more than I ever have, of the glories of the Kingdoms manifested to me in the vision, were I permitted, and were the people prepared to receive it..."

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper ... y-1843/199
Correct me if I'm wrong but that quote doesn't have "eternal round" in it.

User avatar
SJR3t2
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2621
Contact:

Re: What is the Eternal Round?

Post by SJR3t2 »

ransomme wrote: December 6th, 2022, 2:26 pm There are five instances in the scriptures, 3 in the BoM & 2 in D&C, that use the phrase "eternal round" and in each instance the phrase is paralleled with one of two versions of its meaning:

A - twice: "the same yesterday, today and forever" and "in these times as in times of old, and as well in times of old as in times to come"

B - thrice: straight paths, not crooked, not to the right or to the left.

The meaning seems fairly clear:

Eternal/Everlasting Unwavering Truth



Examples of A:

1 Nephi 10:19For he that diligently seeketh shall find; and the mysteries of God shall be unfolded unto them, by the power of the Holy Ghost, as well in these times as in times of old, and as well in times of old as in times to come; wherefore, the course of the Lord is one eternal round.

D&C 35:Listen to the voice of the Lord your God, even Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, whose course is one eternal round, the same today as yesterday, and forever.

Examples of B:

Alma 7:20I perceive that it has been made known unto you, by the testimony of his word, that he cannot walk in crooked paths; neither doth he vary from that which he hath said; neither hath he a shadow of turning from the right to the left, or from that which is right to that which is wrong; therefore, his course is one eternal round.

Alma 37:12And it may suffice if I only say they are preserved for a wise purpose, which purpose is known unto God; for he doth counsel in wisdom over all his works, and his paths are straight, and his course is one eternal round.

D&C 3:2For God doth not walk in crooked paths, neither doth he turn to the right hand nor to the left, neither doth he vary from that which he hath said, therefore his paths are straight, and his course is one eternal round.
I cover all cases in the post, including 2 from the scriptures know as Lectures on Faith.

User avatar
SJR3t2
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2621
Contact:

Re: What is the Eternal Round?

Post by SJR3t2 »

FrankOne wrote: December 6th, 2022, 3:44 pm
Thinker wrote: December 5th, 2022, 4:44 pm
SJR3t2 wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 6:40 am The Eternal Round is a phrase thrown around by people to give support to all kinds of ideas that contradict the scriptures. I hope and pray as we take the time to look at the 1828 Webster's Dictionary and the scriptures that use this phrase it will be come clear in our minds what is being communicated with it.
https://seekingyhwh.org/2022/12/03/what ... nal-round/
I love topics like this! Thanks for bringing this up.

As with anything, there are multiple points of view. In fact, that just may be a major part of this notion of “eternal round”

Eternal is defined (at least by some) as “beyond time.” This could get really weird into the quantum realm, but for most, it’s just being present, enjoying or engaging in the current state. We really don’t time travel, though our minds like to pretend to travel to the future &/or past, neglecting the only current moldeable reality - now.
So, we have the term eternal and then we have the term round.

My perspective matches these scriptures here of what eternal means. Note the word "mystery". He is telling them that he is revealing something that is a mystery to most, but he is expecting his apostles to understand it This scripture redefines many different terms that are described as 'eternal'. My understanding is that salvation, as known to the masses is not truly comprehended. The process of Sin-Repentance-Forgiveness. God's definition of eternal could be from one second to trillions upon trillions of years. or....something else completely. We assign a value of time to the term eternal. Does God?

What does God mean "so that it can work upon the hearts of men?" Endless punishment instills fear. Fear motivates men.


D&C 19

4 And surely every man must repent or suffer, for I, God, am endless.

5 Wherefore, I revoke not the judgments which I shall pass, but woes shall go forth, weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth, yea, to those who are found on my cleft hand.

6 Nevertheless, it is not written that there shall be no end to this torment, but it is written endless torment.

7 Again, it is written eternal damnation; wherefore it is more express than other scriptures, that it might work upon the hearts of the children of men, altogether for my name’s glory.

8 Wherefore, I will explain unto you this mystery, for it is meet unto you to know even as mine apostles.

9 I speak unto you that are chosen in this thing, even as one, that you may enter into my rest.

10 For, behold, the mystery of godliness, how great is it! For, behold, I am endless, and the punishment which is given from my hand is endless punishment, for Endless is my name. Wherefore—

11 Eternal punishment is God’s punishment.

12 Endless punishment is God’s punishment.

edited to add
I talk specifically about the words eternal, round, and course in the post even to the point of quoting Webster's 1828 Dictionary. Nothing with them with regards to mysteries.

User avatar
SJR3t2
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2621
Contact:

Re: What is the Eternal Round?

Post by SJR3t2 »

BruceRGilbert wrote: December 6th, 2022, 4:19 pm Staircase Simile.jpg
I believe the spiral stair case is of Satan.

User avatar
SJR3t2
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2621
Contact:

Re: What is the Eternal Round?

Post by SJR3t2 »

moving2zion wrote: December 6th, 2022, 9:07 pm Patience, with the generation before you, and the generation after you, and the ones you will be trying your best to have patience with after that!
Patience is one of the fruits of the spirit which is actually a commandment in Torah https://seekingyhwh.org/2022/10/05/all- ... o-chiasmi/

moving2zion
captain of 100
Posts: 550

Re: What is the Eternal Round?

Post by moving2zion »

SJR3t2 wrote: December 7th, 2022, 8:15 am
BruceRGilbert wrote: December 6th, 2022, 4:19 pm Staircase Simile.jpg
I believe the spiral stair case is of Satan.
Then do you believe the spiral staircases in temples such as Manti and Provo city to be Satanic in their design? I don't think our ancestors would have taken it this way when they were first built.

User avatar
SJR3t2
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2621
Contact:

Re: What is the Eternal Round?

Post by SJR3t2 »

moving2zion wrote: December 8th, 2022, 8:37 am
SJR3t2 wrote: December 7th, 2022, 8:15 am
BruceRGilbert wrote: December 6th, 2022, 4:19 pm Staircase Simile.jpg
I believe the spiral stair case is of Satan.
Then do you believe the spiral staircases in temples such as Manti and Provo city to be Satanic in their design? I don't think our ancestors would have taken it this way when they were first built.
Satan has deceived the whole world. I believe the LDS / Brighamite temple ceremony is Satanic.

Yes, yes, I know we can find ceremonies like those in LDS temples being done historically around the world. But that does not mean any of them were from God. Mystery Babylon has spread around the world. The ceremonies being performed in LDS / Brighamite temples are of the occult, which is of Mystery Babylon, and not of God. We can see how the works of darkness spread all over.

Helaman (LDS 6:28) (RLDS 2:154) … And it was that same being who led on the people who came from that tower into this land; who spread the works of darkness and abominations over all the face of the land, until he dragged the people down to an entire destruction, and to an everlasting hell.

If you ask me Joseph Smith was in the process of gathering evidence against Brigham Young to excommunicate him for his sins and crimes, which is why Brigham Young helped plan Joseph Smith’s murder, which is talked about in The Exoneration of Emma, Joseph & Hyrum: Part One along with “The Carthage Conspiracy” and Joseph Smith Was Murdered By Freemasons. (Knowing this I find verse Helaman (LDS 6:19) (RLDS 2:128) very telling, especially considering what is being described before and after it, not to mention Helaman (LDS 6:21) (RLDS 2:145).) When that was rooted out of me many other things started to make sense.

Helaman (LDS 6:19) (RLDS 2:128) And it was they [those with secret signs and words] who did murder the chief judge Cezoram [Joseph and Hyrum Smith], and his son [successor, Samuel Smith], while in the judgment-seat; and behold, they were not found.

If Helaman (LDS 6:22-27) (RLDS 2:146-152) does not sound like what happens in LDS Temples along with what members in politics and the law do to protecting the LDS / Brighamite church, and how and why many courts of love [of power] are conducted I don’t know what does. (see McKenna Denson a force for good for examples and Bishops are JUDGEs of Israel for explanation)

Helaman (LDS 6:22-27) (RLDS 2:146-152)
22 And it came to pass that they did have their SIGNS, yea, their SECRET SIGNS, and their SECRET WORDS; and this that they might DISTINGUISH a brother who had ENTERED into the COVENANT, that whatsoever wickedness his brother should do he SHOULD NOT BE INJURED BY HIS BROTHER [upholding their kingdom], nor by those who did belong to his band, who had taken this COVENANT. 23 And thus they might murder, and plunder, and steal, and commit WHOREDOMS and all manner of wickedness, CONTRARY to the LAWS of their COUNTRY and also the LAWS of their GOD. 24 And whosoever of those who BELONGED to their band should REVEAL unto the WORLD of their WICKEDNESS and their ABOMINATIONS, should be TRIED, not according to the laws of their country, BUT ACCORDING TO THE LAWS OF THEIR WICKEDNESS, which had been given by Gadianton and Kishkumen. 25 Now behold, it is these SECRET OATHS and COVENANTS which Alma commanded his son should not go forth unto the world, lest they should be a means of bringing down the people unto DESTRUCTION. 26 Now behold, those SECRET OATHS and COVENANTS did not come forth unto Gadianton from the records which were delivered unto Helaman; but behold, they were put into the heart of Gadianton by that same being who did entice our first parents to partake of the forbidden fruit— 27 Yea, that same being who did plot with Cain, that if he would murder his brother Abel it should not be known unto the world. And he did plot with Cain and his followers from that time forth.

Not to mention that the temple ceremonies that the sons of Aaron performed in the tabernacle, which later was done in the temple, were sacred but not secret as they written in the first five books of the Bible which are also known as the Torah.

https://seekingyhwh.org/2019/06/09/the- ... -the-same/

Post Reply