Is RMN really Owl and Key?
- gkearney
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 5364
Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?
Let’s get our facts right here. There was only one Masonic lodge building ever completed by the saints in the Nauvoo period. That small three story building still exists to this day.
There were six mostly “Mormon” lodges in the area at the time but those lodges did not each have their own building. It was and is common practice for multiple lodges to use a single building or at the time for lodges to meet in building not constructed for that use such as in barns. Some lodge even did so outside.
So saying the the Mormon complete six lodges while the temple remained unfinished is not correct. A Masonic Lodge is not necessarily a building, rather it is an organization.
There were six mostly “Mormon” lodges in the area at the time but those lodges did not each have their own building. It was and is common practice for multiple lodges to use a single building or at the time for lodges to meet in building not constructed for that use such as in barns. Some lodge even did so outside.
So saying the the Mormon complete six lodges while the temple remained unfinished is not correct. A Masonic Lodge is not necessarily a building, rather it is an organization.
- ransomme
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 4078
Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?
We'll that makes all the difference because that detail is obviously the key detail.gkearney wrote: ↑November 13th, 2022, 2:18 am Let’s get our facts right here. There was only one Masonic lodge building ever completed by the saints in the Nauvoo period. That small three story building still exists to this day.
There were six mostly “Mormon” lodges in the area at the time but those lodges did not each have their own building. It was and is common practice for multiple lodges to use a single building or at the time for lodges to meet in building not constructed for that use such as in barns. Some lodge even did so outside.
So saying the the Mormon complete six lodges while the temple remained unfinished is not correct. A Masonic Lodge is not necessarily a building, rather it is an organization.
- Shawn Henry
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 4707
Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?
I've been trying to get to the bottom of this and you may be right. It seems 'Masonic Hall' is the better term to indicate an actual building. The 3 just outside of Nauvoo likely had their own place to meet, but they could have simply borrowed the use of an existing building.gkearney wrote: ↑November 13th, 2022, 2:18 am Let’s get our facts right here. There was only one Masonic lodge building ever completed by the saints in the Nauvoo period. That small three story building still exists to this day.
There were six mostly “Mormon” lodges in the area at the time but those lodges did not each have their own building. It was and is common practice for multiple lodges to use a single building or at the time for lodges to meet in building not constructed for that use such as in barns. Some lodge even did so outside.
So saying the the Mormon complete six lodges while the temple remained unfinished is not correct. A Masonic Lodge is not necessarily a building, rather it is an organization.
The fact that I could only find history of one Hall doesn't mean that a building couldn't have been repurposed once the saints left and then lost to history, but it does seem unlikely, because Lodges do share Halls and there was already one in Nauvoo.
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Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?
Not hard to prove at all. He shares it in his autobiography. It's on page 48:
https://archive.org/stream/from-heart-t ... n_djvu.txtUniversity life was wonderful and successful. On April 3, 1944,
I was elected president of the Sigma Chi fraternity. I was also later
elected to the honorary societies of Skull and Bones in the junior year,
Owl and Key in the senior year, the Beehive Honorary Society in the
senior year, and at graduation time to the honorary scholastic socie-
ties of Phi Kappa Phi and Phi Beta Kappa. I was awarded my B.A.
degree in June commencement of 1945, and there on hand was Dant-
zel, along with our dear parents, brothers, sisters, and other relatives
who always did so much to encourage me. Dantzel got her bachelor’s
degree a year later in 1946.
- Niemand
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 14196
Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?
Hello RationalNugget (!), if you read what I actually said, I said it was "harder to prove".rationalnugget wrote: ↑November 30th, 2022, 12:50 amNot hard to prove at all. He shares it in his autobiography. It's on page 48:
https://archive.org/stream/from-heart-t ... n_djvu.txtUniversity life was wonderful and successful. On April 3, 1944,
I was elected president of the Sigma Chi fraternity. I was also later
elected to the honorary societies of Skull and Bones in the junior year,
Owl and Key in the senior year, the Beehive Honorary Society in the
senior year, and at graduation time to the honorary scholastic socie-
ties of Phi Kappa Phi and Phi Beta Kappa. I was awarded my B.A.
degree in June commencement of 1945, and there on hand was Dant-
zel, along with our dear parents, brothers, sisters, and other relatives
who always did so much to encourage me. Dantzel got her bachelor’s
degree a year later in 1946.
- Pazooka
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 5224
- Location: FEMA District 8
Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?
Further connections between RMN, O&K, S&B and...China
“Russell and Company” (coincidence but funny) was the name of the largest American trading company in China throughout the Opium Wars. Founder Samuel Russell was cousin to the same William Russell that founded S&B at Yale University in order “to recruit global leaders.” In 1903, Yale established schools and hospitals in China.
I know there’s a RMN/China connection as well but won’t have time to flesh it out at the mo. Just wanted to get this out there to the brainpot.
Really Graceful talks about this around the 20 minute mark:
“Russell and Company” (coincidence but funny) was the name of the largest American trading company in China throughout the Opium Wars. Founder Samuel Russell was cousin to the same William Russell that founded S&B at Yale University in order “to recruit global leaders.” In 1903, Yale established schools and hospitals in China.
I know there’s a RMN/China connection as well but won’t have time to flesh it out at the mo. Just wanted to get this out there to the brainpot.
Really Graceful talks about this around the 20 minute mark:
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Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?
An Oaks "honorary society" connection:
Oaks is a member of something called "The Order of the Coif"
On the surface it's just an honor's society for people in the legal profession.
On their membership certificate it says:
ordinis
cuphiae
sigillum
magnum
ordinis means "ordained"
cuphiae means "A covering going round the head"
sigillum means "a seal" or "to be sealed"
and magnum means "A great thing", or "boast, proud claim"
https://orderofthecoif.org/
So here we've got another leader of the church accepting membership into an organization that has "ordained" and "sealed" him by placing a mark on his head because of "great things" or "proud claims" associated with him.
I think I need to go take a shower. What is it with these people?
Oaks is a member of something called "The Order of the Coif"
On the surface it's just an honor's society for people in the legal profession.
On their membership certificate it says:
ordinis
cuphiae
sigillum
magnum
ordinis means "ordained"
cuphiae means "A covering going round the head"
sigillum means "a seal" or "to be sealed"
and magnum means "A great thing", or "boast, proud claim"
https://orderofthecoif.org/
So here we've got another leader of the church accepting membership into an organization that has "ordained" and "sealed" him by placing a mark on his head because of "great things" or "proud claims" associated with him.
I think I need to go take a shower. What is it with these people?
- FoxMammaWisdom
- The Heretic
- Posts: 3796
- Location: I think and I know things.
Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?
noun
noun: coif; plural noun: coifs
1. a woman's close-fitting cap, now only worn under a veil by nuns.
Reference to the seal on the head, or something else?
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- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 6622
Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?
Yeah, I don't know. Weird stuff...FoxMammaWisdom wrote: ↑December 2nd, 2022, 9:58 pmnoun
noun: coif; plural noun: coifs
1. a woman's close-fitting cap, now only worn under a veil by nuns.
Reference to the seal on the head, or something else?
I once took a class from a professor who spent all day looking at rocks, and had made his name by identifying faces in them (this is true, not some parable). We students would often sit around before class and wonder why he had to work so hard to convince us regarding some of his "discoveries". It felt as though he'd been looking for faces in rocks for so long, that every rock began to contain a face.
I don't want to be that guy who sees faces in every rock I turn over.
- Niemand
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 14196
Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?
Here is a curious connection. I know it's Wikipedia and Russell is actually a common surname but it is worth mentioning in this context.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Trust_Association
Bingham is also Howard B. Lee's middle name.
[It also turns out that a major family in the JW/Watchtower Society structure happens to be the Udells (with an E). The Udalls (with an A) are a major family within Mormonism; although one that has never quite reached the top. J. Reuben Clark, Spencer W. Kimball and Mitt Romney all have some kind of Udall connection. This is a much more unusual name, like Taft.]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Trust_Association
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_H ... on_RussellThe Russell Trust Association is the business name for the New Haven, Connecticut-based Skull and Bones society, incorporated in 1856.
I don't need to remind people here that the names Russell and Taft turn up among recent church presidents - Pres. Russell M. Nelson and Ezra Taft Benson. Russell is a common name, but Taft isn't.William Huntington Russell (12 August 1809 – 19 May 1885) was an American businessman, educator, and politician. Notably, he was a co-founder of the Yale University secret society Skull and Bones, along with Alphonso Taft
Comments: no direct connection here, although Russells did help set up several trading companies in Utah including the Deseret Trading Company.He was a descendant of several old New England families, including those of Huntington, Pierpont, Hooker, Willett, Bingham, and Russell. His ancestor, Rev. Noadiah Russell, was a founder and original trustee of Yale College. William's older cousin, Samuel Russell, founded the successful merchant trading firm Russell & Co. in 1823, but William was never associated with this firm.
Bingham is also Howard B. Lee's middle name.
In 1856, with several other Bonesmen, he incorporated Skull and Bones as the Russell Trust, later the Russell Trust Association. The Russell Trust Association is a tax-exempt association; it holds possession of the Skull and Bones Hall at Yale University and the society's holiday island, Deer Island
Hubbard is not that unusual a name either, but again another curious point here: anyone familiar with the most famous New Religious Movements in the USA knows that the Watchtower Society (Jehovah's Witnesses) was founded by Charles Taze Russell and Scientology was founded by L. Ron Hubbard.On 19 August 1836, [W.H.] Russell was married to Mary Elizabeth Hubbard (1816–1890). Mary was a daughter of Lucy Hubbard and Dr. Thomas Hubbard, a professor of Surgery at the Yale Medical School
[It also turns out that a major family in the JW/Watchtower Society structure happens to be the Udells (with an E). The Udalls (with an A) are a major family within Mormonism; although one that has never quite reached the top. J. Reuben Clark, Spencer W. Kimball and Mitt Romney all have some kind of Udall connection. This is a much more unusual name, like Taft.]
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- captain of 100
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Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?
In one Presidential election there were 2 skull and bones members running against each other, George Bush and John Kerry. A newsman, Tim Russert was asking George Bush about what Skull and Bones was? Curiously Tim died a week later.
Skull and Bones, Owl and Key are both of "The Order" the Illuminati or the Deep State. Blood oaths are taken and one does not walk away from The Order without consequences. The only way out of The Order is your death. The members gain positions, wealth, education, whatever they desire from their membership.
An excellent way to understand how this works... I recommend watching a movie "The Brotherhood of the Bell" starring Glen Ford, released in 1970, it's on YouTube.
And we have a member of The Order running the most wealthy corporation/religion in the United States. It has an excellent business model. One must pay tithing in order to get temple blessings. At one time many years ago, one needed only to go once for temple blessings for themselves. Now if you can't afford to travel a great distance, no problem, we'll build a temple closer to you. And there is an unlimited number of dead to take to the temple. Some members are so proud of the number of hours they spend working for the dead, that they have no time left to get to know their living neighbors.
In Section 137 Joseph Smith in vision saw his brother Alvin, that had long since slept in the Celestial kingdom, "And marveled how it was that he had obtained an inheritance in that kingdom, seeing that he had departed this life before the Lord had set his hand to gather Israel the second time, and had not been baptized for the remission of sins."
We should look to the next General Conference for an answer to this question, as this freedom forum is monitored...they do not want any free thinkers to mire the business model, keep the sheeple sleeping. Why incorporate? Great way to hide money.
Skull and Bones, Owl and Key are both of "The Order" the Illuminati or the Deep State. Blood oaths are taken and one does not walk away from The Order without consequences. The only way out of The Order is your death. The members gain positions, wealth, education, whatever they desire from their membership.
An excellent way to understand how this works... I recommend watching a movie "The Brotherhood of the Bell" starring Glen Ford, released in 1970, it's on YouTube.
And we have a member of The Order running the most wealthy corporation/religion in the United States. It has an excellent business model. One must pay tithing in order to get temple blessings. At one time many years ago, one needed only to go once for temple blessings for themselves. Now if you can't afford to travel a great distance, no problem, we'll build a temple closer to you. And there is an unlimited number of dead to take to the temple. Some members are so proud of the number of hours they spend working for the dead, that they have no time left to get to know their living neighbors.
In Section 137 Joseph Smith in vision saw his brother Alvin, that had long since slept in the Celestial kingdom, "And marveled how it was that he had obtained an inheritance in that kingdom, seeing that he had departed this life before the Lord had set his hand to gather Israel the second time, and had not been baptized for the remission of sins."
We should look to the next General Conference for an answer to this question, as this freedom forum is monitored...they do not want any free thinkers to mire the business model, keep the sheeple sleeping. Why incorporate? Great way to hide money.
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- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 6622
Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?
The more I research this the more I get the clear impression that the calling of Oaks and Nelson may have been The Order’s response to Ezra Taft Benson and his rabid insistence on calling attention to their plans.CMajor wrote: ↑December 7th, 2022, 4:20 am In one Presidential election there were 2 skull and bones members running against each other, George Bush and John Kerry. A newsman, Tim Russert was asking George Bush about what Skull and Bones was? Curiously Tim died a week later.
Skull and Bones, Owl and Key are both of "The Order" the Illuminati or the Deep State. Blood oaths are taken and one does not walk away from The Order without consequences. The only way out of The Order is your death. The members gain positions, wealth, education, whatever they desire from their membership.
An excellent way to understand how this works... I recommend watching a movie "The Brotherhood of the Bell" starring Glen Ford, released in 1970, it's on YouTube.
And we have a member of The Order running the most wealthy corporation/religion in the United States. It has an excellent business model. One must pay tithing in order to get temple blessings. At one time many years ago, one needed only to go once for temple blessings for themselves. Now if you can't afford to travel a great distance, no problem, we'll build a temple closer to you. And there is an unlimited number of dead to take to the temple. Some members are so proud of the number of hours they spend working for the dead, that they have no time left to get to know their living neighbors.
In Section 137 Joseph Smith in vision saw his brother Alvin, that had long since slept in the Celestial kingdom, "And marveled how it was that he had obtained an inheritance in that kingdom, seeing that he had departed this life before the Lord had set his hand to gather Israel the second time, and had not been baptized for the remission of sins."
We should look to the next General Conference for an answer to this question, as this freedom forum is monitored...they do not want any free thinkers to mire the business model, keep the sheeple sleeping. Why incorporate? Great way to hide money.
If you look at it strictly from a historical perspective you can see the Quorum of the Twelve bifurcating around this time and you can clearly see two radically different futures for the church taking shape, depending on who wins the internal battle.
When the two openings in the Quorum happen you’ve got a real pickle if you’re not on ETB’s side of the fence on the issue of conspiracy. Kimball isn’t functioning, and if you wait until he dies to fill the vacancies, which is the appropriate thing to do, who gets to choose who the new apostles are? Ezra Taft Benson, that’s who.
So what do you do?
Well, you manufacture a miracle. Your prophet becomes lucid just long enough to tell you who the next two apostles are and then immediately slips back into incoherency. You choose a member of The Order, and a man who at the very least is very comfortable working with people of that ilk (the CIA named Oaks as a university president who they wanted to target working with because he seemed favorable to the idea). And then you reassure the members that, although the choices may seem a bit odd, it was DEFINITELY the prophet who did this (look up Gordon B Hinckley’s “explanation” of their call), and it’s DEFINITELY the Lord’s will.
I sincerely, even fervently, hope I’m wrong about this, but the documentary evidence just keeps stacking up.
I’m getting to the point where the only relevant question is, is the Lord really at the helm of this church? If so then everything will work out. He’ll take care of things in His own time. If not, well… where does one look next?
And for what it’s worth, I DO believe the Lord is at the helm. I’ve had multiple experiences over several years that I simply can’t deny that leads me to believe the roots are good, and that the future is secure.
Doesn’t change the horror show we’re in right now, though.
- Lineman1012
- captain of 100
- Posts: 726
- Location: Present
Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?
endlessismyname wrote: ↑December 7th, 2022, 8:09 amThe more I research this the more I get the clear impression that the calling of Oaks and Nelson may have been The Order’s response to Ezra Taft Benson and his rabid insistence on calling attention to their plans.CMajor wrote: ↑December 7th, 2022, 4:20 am In one Presidential election there were 2 skull and bones members running against each other, George Bush and John Kerry. A newsman, Tim Russert was asking George Bush about what Skull and Bones was? Curiously Tim died a week later.
Skull and Bones, Owl and Key are both of "The Order" the Illuminati or the Deep State. Blood oaths are taken and one does not walk away from The Order without consequences. The only way out of The Order is your death. The members gain positions, wealth, education, whatever they desire from their membership.
An excellent way to understand how this works... I recommend watching a movie "The Brotherhood of the Bell" starring Glen Ford, released in 1970, it's on YouTube.
And we have a member of The Order running the most wealthy corporation/religion in the United States. It has an excellent business model. One must pay tithing in order to get temple blessings. At one time many years ago, one needed only to go once for temple blessings for themselves. Now if you can't afford to travel a great distance, no problem, we'll build a temple closer to you. And there is an unlimited number of dead to take to the temple. Some members are so proud of the number of hours they spend working for the dead, that they have no time left to get to know their living neighbors.
In Section 137 Joseph Smith in vision saw his brother Alvin, that had long since slept in the Celestial kingdom, "And marveled how it was that he had obtained an inheritance in that kingdom, seeing that he had departed this life before the Lord had set his hand to gather Israel the second time, and had not been baptized for the remission of sins."
We should look to the next General Conference for an answer to this question, as this freedom forum is monitored...they do not want any free thinkers to mire the business model, keep the sheeple sleeping. Why incorporate? Great way to hide money.
If you look at it strictly from a historical perspective you can see the Quorum of the Twelve bifurcating around this time and you can clearly see two radically different futures for the church taking shape, depending on who wins the internal battle.
When the two openings in the Quorum happen you’ve got a real pickle if you’re not on ETB’s side of the fence on the issue of conspiracy. Kimball isn’t functioning, and if you wait until he dies to fill the vacancies, which is the appropriate thing to do, who gets to choose who the new apostles are? Ezra Taft Benson, that’s who.
So what do you do?
Well, you manufacture a miracle. Your prophet becomes lucid just long enough to tell you who the next two apostles are and then immediately slips back into incoherency. You choose a member of The Order, and a man who at the very least is very comfortable working with people of that ilk (the CIA named Oaks as a university president who they wanted to target working with because he seemed favorable to the idea). And then you reassure the members that, although the choices may seem a bit odd, it was DEFINITELY the prophet who did this (look up Gordon B Hinckley’s “explanation” of their call), and it’s DEFINITELY the Lord’s will.
I sincerely, even fervently, hope I’m wrong about this, but the documentary evidence just keeps stacking up.
I’m getting to the point where the only relevant question is, is the Lord really at the helm of this church? If so then everything will work out. He’ll take care of things in His own time. If not, well… where does one look next?
And for what it’s worth, I DO believe the Lord is at the helm. I’ve had multiple experiences over several years that I simply can’t deny that leads me to believe the roots are good, and that the future is secure.
Doesn’t change the horror show we’re in right now, though.
I’m confused on what you’re saying. Are you saying the Lord is working through skull and bones member RMN or that He is letting skull and bones member RMN do his thing and He ( the Lord) is making things happen in spite of RMN actions?
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- Posts: 6622
Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?
Thanks for asking for clarification.Lineman1012 wrote: ↑December 7th, 2022, 8:20 amendlessismyname wrote: ↑December 7th, 2022, 8:09 amThe more I research this the more I get the clear impression that the calling of Oaks and Nelson may have been The Order’s response to Ezra Taft Benson and his rabid insistence on calling attention to their plans.CMajor wrote: ↑December 7th, 2022, 4:20 am In one Presidential election there were 2 skull and bones members running against each other, George Bush and John Kerry. A newsman, Tim Russert was asking George Bush about what Skull and Bones was? Curiously Tim died a week later.
Skull and Bones, Owl and Key are both of "The Order" the Illuminati or the Deep State. Blood oaths are taken and one does not walk away from The Order without consequences. The only way out of The Order is your death. The members gain positions, wealth, education, whatever they desire from their membership.
An excellent way to understand how this works... I recommend watching a movie "The Brotherhood of the Bell" starring Glen Ford, released in 1970, it's on YouTube.
And we have a member of The Order running the most wealthy corporation/religion in the United States. It has an excellent business model. One must pay tithing in order to get temple blessings. At one time many years ago, one needed only to go once for temple blessings for themselves. Now if you can't afford to travel a great distance, no problem, we'll build a temple closer to you. And there is an unlimited number of dead to take to the temple. Some members are so proud of the number of hours they spend working for the dead, that they have no time left to get to know their living neighbors.
In Section 137 Joseph Smith in vision saw his brother Alvin, that had long since slept in the Celestial kingdom, "And marveled how it was that he had obtained an inheritance in that kingdom, seeing that he had departed this life before the Lord had set his hand to gather Israel the second time, and had not been baptized for the remission of sins."
We should look to the next General Conference for an answer to this question, as this freedom forum is monitored...they do not want any free thinkers to mire the business model, keep the sheeple sleeping. Why incorporate? Great way to hide money.
If you look at it strictly from a historical perspective you can see the Quorum of the Twelve bifurcating around this time and you can clearly see two radically different futures for the church taking shape, depending on who wins the internal battle.
When the two openings in the Quorum happen you’ve got a real pickle if you’re not on ETB’s side of the fence on the issue of conspiracy. Kimball isn’t functioning, and if you wait until he dies to fill the vacancies, which is the appropriate thing to do, who gets to choose who the new apostles are? Ezra Taft Benson, that’s who.
So what do you do?
Well, you manufacture a miracle. Your prophet becomes lucid just long enough to tell you who the next two apostles are and then immediately slips back into incoherency. You choose a member of The Order, and a man who at the very least is very comfortable working with people of that ilk (the CIA named Oaks as a university president who they wanted to target working with because he seemed favorable to the idea). And then you reassure the members that, although the choices may seem a bit odd, it was DEFINITELY the prophet who did this (look up Gordon B Hinckley’s “explanation” of their call), and it’s DEFINITELY the Lord’s will.
I sincerely, even fervently, hope I’m wrong about this, but the documentary evidence just keeps stacking up.
I’m getting to the point where the only relevant question is, is the Lord really at the helm of this church? If so then everything will work out. He’ll take care of things in His own time. If not, well… where does one look next?
And for what it’s worth, I DO believe the Lord is at the helm. I’ve had multiple experiences over several years that I simply can’t deny that leads me to believe the roots are good, and that the future is secure.
Doesn’t change the horror show we’re in right now, though.
I’m confused on what you’re saying. Are you saying the Lord is working through skull and bones member RMN or that He is letting skull and bones member RMN do his thing and He ( the Lord) is making things happen in spite of RMN actions?
I'm saying that if the founding of the church is legitimate and the Lord is at the helm, there is ample historical precedent for believing that the Lord may be allowing wicked men and women to usurp authority for a time, and will set things right in His own time and method.
Even during the life of the Messiah, the "church" was being run by wicked, scheming men and the temple was a den of thieves, yes?
- Cruiserdude
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Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?
An enemy hath done this...endlessismyname wrote: ↑December 7th, 2022, 8:09 amThe more I research this the more I get the clear impression that the calling of Oaks and Nelson may have been The Order’s response to Ezra Taft Benson and his rabid insistence on calling attention to their plans.CMajor wrote: ↑December 7th, 2022, 4:20 am In one Presidential election there were 2 skull and bones members running against each other, George Bush and John Kerry. A newsman, Tim Russert was asking George Bush about what Skull and Bones was? Curiously Tim died a week later.
Skull and Bones, Owl and Key are both of "The Order" the Illuminati or the Deep State. Blood oaths are taken and one does not walk away from The Order without consequences. The only way out of The Order is your death. The members gain positions, wealth, education, whatever they desire from their membership.
An excellent way to understand how this works... I recommend watching a movie "The Brotherhood of the Bell" starring Glen Ford, released in 1970, it's on YouTube.
And we have a member of The Order running the most wealthy corporation/religion in the United States. It has an excellent business model. One must pay tithing in order to get temple blessings. At one time many years ago, one needed only to go once for temple blessings for themselves. Now if you can't afford to travel a great distance, no problem, we'll build a temple closer to you. And there is an unlimited number of dead to take to the temple. Some members are so proud of the number of hours they spend working for the dead, that they have no time left to get to know their living neighbors.
In Section 137 Joseph Smith in vision saw his brother Alvin, that had long since slept in the Celestial kingdom, "And marveled how it was that he had obtained an inheritance in that kingdom, seeing that he had departed this life before the Lord had set his hand to gather Israel the second time, and had not been baptized for the remission of sins."
We should look to the next General Conference for an answer to this question, as this freedom forum is monitored...they do not want any free thinkers to mire the business model, keep the sheeple sleeping. Why incorporate? Great way to hide money.
If you look at it strictly from a historical perspective you can see the Quorum of the Twelve bifurcating around this time and you can clearly see two radically different futures for the church taking shape, depending on who wins the internal battle.
When the two openings in the Quorum happen you’ve got a real pickle if you’re not on ETB’s side of the fence on the issue of conspiracy. Kimball isn’t functioning, and if you wait until he dies to fill the vacancies, which is the appropriate thing to do, who gets to choose who the new apostles are? Ezra Taft Benson, that’s who.
So what do you do?
Well, you manufacture a miracle. Your prophet becomes lucid just long enough to tell you who the next two apostles are and then immediately slips back into incoherency. You choose a member of The Order, and a man who at the very least is very comfortable working with people of that ilk (the CIA named Oaks as a university president who they wanted to target working with because he seemed favorable to the idea). And then you reassure the members that, although the choices may seem a bit odd, it was DEFINITELY the prophet who did this (look up Gordon B Hinckley’s “explanation” of their call), and it’s DEFINITELY the Lord’s will.
I sincerely, even fervently, hope I’m wrong about this, but the documentary evidence just keeps stacking up.
I’m getting to the point where the only relevant question is, is the Lord really at the helm of this church? If so then everything will work out. He’ll take care of things in His own time. If not, well… where does one look next?
And for what it’s worth, I DO believe the Lord is at the helm. I’ve had multiple experiences over several years that I simply can’t deny that leads me to believe the roots are good, and that the future is secure.
Doesn’t change the horror show we’re in right now, though.
(great work in going through and verifying all that you have , hermano )
- Lineman1012
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Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?
Ok, understood. Now, knowing that is how the “church” is being run today, by wicked, scheming men (and women) would you, or anyone else for that matter, think it is ok in the eyes of God to stay associated with, pay money to, attend meetings and in fact build up and strengthen this den of thieves?endlessismyname wrote: ↑December 7th, 2022, 8:30 amThanks for asking for clarification.Lineman1012 wrote: ↑December 7th, 2022, 8:20 amendlessismyname wrote: ↑December 7th, 2022, 8:09 amThe more I research this the more I get the clear impression that the calling of Oaks and Nelson may have been The Order’s response to Ezra Taft Benson and his rabid insistence on calling attention to their plans.CMajor wrote: ↑December 7th, 2022, 4:20 am In one Presidential election there were 2 skull and bones members running against each other, George Bush and John Kerry. A newsman, Tim Russert was asking George Bush about what Skull and Bones was? Curiously Tim died a week later.
Skull and Bones, Owl and Key are both of "The Order" the Illuminati or the Deep State. Blood oaths are taken and one does not walk away from The Order without consequences. The only way out of The Order is your death. The members gain positions, wealth, education, whatever they desire from their membership.
An excellent way to understand how this works... I recommend watching a movie "The Brotherhood of the Bell" starring Glen Ford, released in 1970, it's on YouTube.
And we have a member of The Order running the most wealthy corporation/religion in the United States. It has an excellent business model. One must pay tithing in order to get temple blessings. At one time many years ago, one needed only to go once for temple blessings for themselves. Now if you can't afford to travel a great distance, no problem, we'll build a temple closer to you. And there is an unlimited number of dead to take to the temple. Some members are so proud of the number of hours they spend working for the dead, that they have no time left to get to know their living neighbors.
In Section 137 Joseph Smith in vision saw his brother Alvin, that had long since slept in the Celestial kingdom, "And marveled how it was that he had obtained an inheritance in that kingdom, seeing that he had departed this life before the Lord had set his hand to gather Israel the second time, and had not been baptized for the remission of sins."
We should look to the next General Conference for an answer to this question, as this freedom forum is monitored...they do not want any free thinkers to mire the business model, keep the sheeple sleeping. Why incorporate? Great way to hide money.
If you look at it strictly from a historical perspective you can see the Quorum of the Twelve bifurcating around this time and you can clearly see two radically different futures for the church taking shape, depending on who wins the internal battle.
When the two openings in the Quorum happen you’ve got a real pickle if you’re not on ETB’s side of the fence on the issue of conspiracy. Kimball isn’t functioning, and if you wait until he dies to fill the vacancies, which is the appropriate thing to do, who gets to choose who the new apostles are? Ezra Taft Benson, that’s who.
So what do you do?
Well, you manufacture a miracle. Your prophet becomes lucid just long enough to tell you who the next two apostles are and then immediately slips back into incoherency. You choose a member of The Order, and a man who at the very least is very comfortable working with people of that ilk (the CIA named Oaks as a university president who they wanted to target working with because he seemed favorable to the idea). And then you reassure the members that, although the choices may seem a bit odd, it was DEFINITELY the prophet who did this (look up Gordon B Hinckley’s “explanation” of their call), and it’s DEFINITELY the Lord’s will.
I sincerely, even fervently, hope I’m wrong about this, but the documentary evidence just keeps stacking up.
I’m getting to the point where the only relevant question is, is the Lord really at the helm of this church? If so then everything will work out. He’ll take care of things in His own time. If not, well… where does one look next?
And for what it’s worth, I DO believe the Lord is at the helm. I’ve had multiple experiences over several years that I simply can’t deny that leads me to believe the roots are good, and that the future is secure.
Doesn’t change the horror show we’re in right now, though.
I’m confused on what you’re saying. Are you saying the Lord is working through skull and bones member RMN or that He is letting skull and bones member RMN do his thing and He ( the Lord) is making things happen in spite of RMN actions?
I'm saying that if the founding of the church is legitimate and the Lord is at the helm, there is ample historical precedent for believing that the Lord may be allowing wicked men and women to usurp authority for a time, and will set things right in His own time and method.
Even during the life of the Messiah, the "church" was being run by wicked, scheming men and the temple was a den of thieves, yes?
Or would it be more beneficial to take our time, talents, and means on the road? Give directly to those in need, help strengthen those heads that hang down and lift others out of the mire?
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Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?
It’s a valid question.Lineman1012 wrote: ↑December 7th, 2022, 8:50 pmOk, understood. Now, knowing that is how the “church” is being run today, by wicked, scheming men (and women) would you, or anyone else for that matter, think it is ok in the eyes of God to stay associated with, pay money to, attend meetings and in fact build up and strengthen this den of thieves?endlessismyname wrote: ↑December 7th, 2022, 8:30 amThanks for asking for clarification.Lineman1012 wrote: ↑December 7th, 2022, 8:20 amendlessismyname wrote: ↑December 7th, 2022, 8:09 am
The more I research this the more I get the clear impression that the calling of Oaks and Nelson may have been The Order’s response to Ezra Taft Benson and his rabid insistence on calling attention to their plans.
If you look at it strictly from a historical perspective you can see the Quorum of the Twelve bifurcating around this time and you can clearly see two radically different futures for the church taking shape, depending on who wins the internal battle.
When the two openings in the Quorum happen you’ve got a real pickle if you’re not on ETB’s side of the fence on the issue of conspiracy. Kimball isn’t functioning, and if you wait until he dies to fill the vacancies, which is the appropriate thing to do, who gets to choose who the new apostles are? Ezra Taft Benson, that’s who.
So what do you do?
Well, you manufacture a miracle. Your prophet becomes lucid just long enough to tell you who the next two apostles are and then immediately slips back into incoherency. You choose a member of The Order, and a man who at the very least is very comfortable working with people of that ilk (the CIA named Oaks as a university president who they wanted to target working with because he seemed favorable to the idea). And then you reassure the members that, although the choices may seem a bit odd, it was DEFINITELY the prophet who did this (look up Gordon B Hinckley’s “explanation” of their call), and it’s DEFINITELY the Lord’s will.
I sincerely, even fervently, hope I’m wrong about this, but the documentary evidence just keeps stacking up.
I’m getting to the point where the only relevant question is, is the Lord really at the helm of this church? If so then everything will work out. He’ll take care of things in His own time. If not, well… where does one look next?
And for what it’s worth, I DO believe the Lord is at the helm. I’ve had multiple experiences over several years that I simply can’t deny that leads me to believe the roots are good, and that the future is secure.
Doesn’t change the horror show we’re in right now, though.
I’m confused on what you’re saying. Are you saying the Lord is working through skull and bones member RMN or that He is letting skull and bones member RMN do his thing and He ( the Lord) is making things happen in spite of RMN actions?
I'm saying that if the founding of the church is legitimate and the Lord is at the helm, there is ample historical precedent for believing that the Lord may be allowing wicked men and women to usurp authority for a time, and will set things right in His own time and method.
Even during the life of the Messiah, the "church" was being run by wicked, scheming men and the temple was a den of thieves, yes?
Or would it be more beneficial to take our time, talents, and means on the road? Give directly to those in need, help strengthen those heads that hang down and lift others out of the mire?
I propose that every member should be carefully, prayerfully, and thoughtfully working through these questions.
Clearly, whatever decision people make, it’s between them and the Lord.
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Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?
I've been looking for this for a few days... it costs a couple thousand dollars online.
Here's Nelson's autobiography, free of charge:
https://archive.org/details/from-heart- ... -m.-nelson
Here's Nelson's autobiography, free of charge:
https://archive.org/details/from-heart- ... -m.-nelson
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- captain of 10
- Posts: 30
Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?
endlessismyname wrote: ↑December 7th, 2022, 8:09 amThe more I research this the more I get the clear impression that the calling of Oaks and Nelson may have been The Order’s response to Ezra Taft Benson and his rabid insistence on calling attention to their plans.CMajor wrote: ↑December 7th, 2022, 4:20 am In one Presidential election there were 2 skull and bones members running against each other, George Bush and John Kerry. A newsman, Tim Russert was asking George Bush about what Skull and Bones was? Curiously Tim died a week later.
Skull and Bones, Owl and Key are both of "The Order" the Illuminati or the Deep State. Blood oaths are taken and one does not walk away from The Order without consequences. The only way out of The Order is your death. The members gain positions, wealth, education, whatever they desire from their membership.
An excellent way to understand how this works... I recommend watching a movie "The Brotherhood of the Bell" starring Glen Ford, released in 1970, it's on YouTube.
And we have a member of The Order running the most wealthy corporation/religion in the United States. It has an excellent business model. One must pay tithing in order to get temple blessings. At one time many years ago, one needed only to go once for temple blessings for themselves. Now if you can't afford to travel a great distance, no problem, we'll build a temple closer to you. And there is an unlimited number of dead to take to the temple. Some members are so proud of the number of hours they spend working for the dead, that they have no time left to get to know their living neighbors.
In Section 137 Joseph Smith in vision saw his brother Alvin, that had long since slept in the Celestial kingdom, "And marveled how it was that he had obtained an inheritance in that kingdom, seeing that he had departed this life before the Lord had set his hand to gather Israel the second time, and had not been baptized for the remission of sins."
We should look to the next General Conference for an answer to this question, as this freedom forum is monitored...they do not want any free thinkers to mire the business model, keep the sheeple sleeping. Why incorporate? Great way to hide money.
If you look at it strictly from a historical perspective you can see the Quorum of the Twelve bifurcating around this time and you can clearly see two radically different futures for the church taking shape, depending on who wins the internal battle.
When the two openings in the Quorum happen you’ve got a real pickle if you’re not on ETB’s side of the fence on the issue of conspiracy. Kimball isn’t functioning, and if you wait until he dies to fill the vacancies, which is the appropriate thing to do, who gets to choose who the new apostles are? Ezra Taft Benson, that’s who.
So what do you do?
Well, you manufacture a miracle. Your prophet becomes lucid just long enough to tell you who the next two apostles are and then immediately slips back into incoherency. You choose a member of The Order, and a man who at the very least is very comfortable working with people of that ilk (the CIA named Oaks as a university president who they wanted to target working with because he seemed favorable to the idea). And then you reassure the members that, although the choices may seem a bit odd, it was DEFINITELY the prophet who did this (look up Gordon B Hinckley’s “explanation” of their call), and it’s DEFINITELY the Lord’s will.
I sincerely, even fervently, hope I’m wrong about this, but the documentary evidence just keeps stacking up.
I’m getting to the point where the only relevant question is, is the Lord really at the helm of this church? If so then everything will work out. He’ll take care of things in His own time. If not, well… where does one look next?
And for what it’s worth, I DO believe the Lord is at the helm. I’ve had multiple experiences over several years that I simply can’t deny that leads me to believe the roots are good, and that the future is secure.
Doesn’t change the horror show we’re in right now, though.
Do you have a source for the story about Kimball's temporary lucidity to call Nelson & Oaks? "(look up Gordon B Hinckley’s “explanation” of their call)"
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Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?
I’m not sure I understand the question completely, but I’ll answer it as I understand it.netlinkmedia wrote: ↑December 13th, 2022, 3:06 amendlessismyname wrote: ↑December 7th, 2022, 8:09 amThe more I research this the more I get the clear impression that the calling of Oaks and Nelson may have been The Order’s response to Ezra Taft Benson and his rabid insistence on calling attention to their plans.CMajor wrote: ↑December 7th, 2022, 4:20 am In one Presidential election there were 2 skull and bones members running against each other, George Bush and John Kerry. A newsman, Tim Russert was asking George Bush about what Skull and Bones was? Curiously Tim died a week later.
Skull and Bones, Owl and Key are both of "The Order" the Illuminati or the Deep State. Blood oaths are taken and one does not walk away from The Order without consequences. The only way out of The Order is your death. The members gain positions, wealth, education, whatever they desire from their membership.
An excellent way to understand how this works... I recommend watching a movie "The Brotherhood of the Bell" starring Glen Ford, released in 1970, it's on YouTube.
And we have a member of The Order running the most wealthy corporation/religion in the United States. It has an excellent business model. One must pay tithing in order to get temple blessings. At one time many years ago, one needed only to go once for temple blessings for themselves. Now if you can't afford to travel a great distance, no problem, we'll build a temple closer to you. And there is an unlimited number of dead to take to the temple. Some members are so proud of the number of hours they spend working for the dead, that they have no time left to get to know their living neighbors.
In Section 137 Joseph Smith in vision saw his brother Alvin, that had long since slept in the Celestial kingdom, "And marveled how it was that he had obtained an inheritance in that kingdom, seeing that he had departed this life before the Lord had set his hand to gather Israel the second time, and had not been baptized for the remission of sins."
We should look to the next General Conference for an answer to this question, as this freedom forum is monitored...they do not want any free thinkers to mire the business model, keep the sheeple sleeping. Why incorporate? Great way to hide money.
If you look at it strictly from a historical perspective you can see the Quorum of the Twelve bifurcating around this time and you can clearly see two radically different futures for the church taking shape, depending on who wins the internal battle.
When the two openings in the Quorum happen you’ve got a real pickle if you’re not on ETB’s side of the fence on the issue of conspiracy. Kimball isn’t functioning, and if you wait until he dies to fill the vacancies, which is the appropriate thing to do, who gets to choose who the new apostles are? Ezra Taft Benson, that’s who.
So what do you do?
Well, you manufacture a miracle. Your prophet becomes lucid just long enough to tell you who the next two apostles are and then immediately slips back into incoherency. You choose a member of The Order, and a man who at the very least is very comfortable working with people of that ilk (the CIA named Oaks as a university president who they wanted to target working with because he seemed favorable to the idea). And then you reassure the members that, although the choices may seem a bit odd, it was DEFINITELY the prophet who did this (look up Gordon B Hinckley’s “explanation” of their call), and it’s DEFINITELY the Lord’s will.
I sincerely, even fervently, hope I’m wrong about this, but the documentary evidence just keeps stacking up.
I’m getting to the point where the only relevant question is, is the Lord really at the helm of this church? If so then everything will work out. He’ll take care of things in His own time. If not, well… where does one look next?
And for what it’s worth, I DO believe the Lord is at the helm. I’ve had multiple experiences over several years that I simply can’t deny that leads me to believe the roots are good, and that the future is secure.
Doesn’t change the horror show we’re in right now, though.
Do you have a source for the story about Kimball's temporary lucidity to call Nelson & Oaks? "(look up Gordon B Hinckley’s “explanation” of their call)"
The source for GBH’s explanation is the Conference report for the day they were called, if I remember correctly.
The “source” for the temporary lucidity story isn’t really a source, it was a claim made on the Railroad thread by a user who went by the handle A Global Faith.
Does that answer the question? If not let me know and I’ll try to do a better job answering it.
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Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?
Let me get this straight.
It is God's church but he lets an agent(s) of evil lead it astray resulting in both misery and deaths of its members by damaging doctrines being preached as revelation? These same people are telling us we can completely trust them and God will remove that person if it wasn't right. Every person dies but none with unusual deaths among the leadership. So that must mean the process is working, correct?
Then the church switches back to the good church without any upheaval of the organization or events that call it to repentance like in all former times of apostasy or straying? How do you ever know when its the correct and true church and when it is not?
It is God's church but he lets an agent(s) of evil lead it astray resulting in both misery and deaths of its members by damaging doctrines being preached as revelation? These same people are telling us we can completely trust them and God will remove that person if it wasn't right. Every person dies but none with unusual deaths among the leadership. So that must mean the process is working, correct?
Then the church switches back to the good church without any upheaval of the organization or events that call it to repentance like in all former times of apostasy or straying? How do you ever know when its the correct and true church and when it is not?
- ransomme
- captain of 1,000
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Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?
Welcome to the latter-day conundrum. The scriptures speak of apostasy, of drunken, vomiting leaders, etc. Being guided by a bonesman, and owl & key member is not kosher.Letfreedumbring wrote: ↑December 15th, 2022, 2:38 am Let me get this straight.
It is God's church but he lets an agent(s) of evil lead it astray resulting in both misery and deaths of its members by damaging doctrines being preached as revelation? These same people are telling us we can completely trust them and God will remove that person if it wasn't right. Every person dies but none with unusual deaths among the leadership. So that must mean the process is working, correct?
Then the church switches back to the good church without any upheaval of the organization or events that call it to repentance like in all former times of apostasy or straying? How do you ever know when its the correct and true church and when it is not?
That said I still function from within the Church. There are still good people there. The community that I have there is strong. I still can be a voice of reason there.
And can still learn from others there as well
Last edited by ransomme on December 15th, 2022, 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?
What are you going on about? Are you just making this up? I would love to see your proof of this. I have a feeling that you don't know when Tim Russert died.
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Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?
How's about you go do your own research.FearlessFixxer wrote: ↑December 15th, 2022, 9:19 amWhat are you going on about? Are you just making this up? I would love to see your proof of this. I have a feeling that you don't know when Tim Russert died. Also, if you actually believe this, seek counseling.
It's good for the soul.
Unless, of course, you're trolling, and just trying to get someone to waste time doing something you could do for yourself in, I don't know, 5 minutes.
- gkearney
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Re: Is RMN really Owl and Key?
For the record: Timothy John Russert (May 7, 1950 – June 13, 2008)FearlessFixxer wrote: ↑December 15th, 2022, 9:19 amWhat are you going on about? Are you just making this up? I would love to see your proof of this. I have a feeling that you don't know when Tim Russert died. Also, if you actually believe this, seek counseling.
Shortly after 1:30 pm on June 13, 2008, Russert collapsed at the offices of WRC-TV, which houses the Washington, D.C. Bureau of NBC News where he was chief. An autopsy performed on the day of his death determined that his history of coronary artery disease led to a myocardial infarction (heart attack) and ventricular fibrillation with the immediate cause being an occlusive coronary thrombosis in the left anterior descending artery resulting from a ruptured cholesterol plaque.
Now, as Tim Russert died in 2008 it would not be possible for him to have died shortly asking George Bush about Skull and Bones as George Bush and John Kerry ran in the presidential election of 2004 some four years before Russert death in 2008.
We were asked to "do your own research." Which I have done. Tim Russert death had nothing to do with any question he may or may not have posed to George Bush. Also, he did not "died a week later" as CMajor post stated, but rather some four years later from a known medical condition.