2 Restorations? Yes (not 1 or 3)

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Shawn Henry
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Re: 2 Restorations? Yes (not 1 or 3)

Post by Shawn Henry »

Alexander wrote: November 18th, 2022, 2:58 pm Where did I single out Manasseh?
When you said, "the Lamanite Servant".

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: 2 Restorations?

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Primary Outcast wrote: November 18th, 2022, 1:46 pm
Shawn Henry wrote: November 18th, 2022, 1:04 pm
Primary Outcast wrote: November 17th, 2022, 9:43 pm those angels have left the portals of heaven, and they stand over this people and this nation now, and are hovering over the earth waiting to pour out the judgments.
And you really believe they left heaven just to hover over the earth for close to 200 years? Do you think God mistimed that or do you think WW may not have spoken correctly.
I recommend spending some time going through this spreadsheet. I didn't put it together, but it's very interesting: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
In terms of pasta: :lol:

They saw the Macaroni in 2018,

but were blind to the Bow tie in 2010.

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Alexander
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Re: 2 Restorations? Yes (not 1 or 3)

Post by Alexander »

Shawn Henry wrote: November 19th, 2022, 1:25 am
Alexander wrote: November 18th, 2022, 2:58 pm Where did I single out Manasseh?
When you said, "the Lamanite Servant".
?

It says the servant comes from the seed of Joseph (son of Lehi).

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Shawn Henry
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Re: 2 Restorations? Yes (not 1 or 3)

Post by Shawn Henry »

Alexander wrote: November 19th, 2022, 11:16 am
Shawn Henry wrote: November 19th, 2022, 1:25 am
Alexander wrote: November 18th, 2022, 2:58 pm Where did I single out Manasseh?
When you said, "the Lamanite Servant".
?

It says the servant comes from the seed of Joseph (son of Lehi).
No, it's referencing Joseph of Egypt, the Seer will come from his loins.

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Alexander
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Re: 2 Restorations? Yes (not 1 or 3)

Post by Alexander »

Shawn Henry wrote: November 19th, 2022, 2:56 pm
Alexander wrote: November 19th, 2022, 11:16 am
Shawn Henry wrote: November 19th, 2022, 1:25 am
Alexander wrote: November 18th, 2022, 2:58 pm Where did I single out Manasseh?
When you said, "the Lamanite Servant".
?

It says the servant comes from the seed of Joseph (son of Lehi).
No, it's referencing Joseph of Egypt, the Seer will come from his loins.
The servant comes from the fruit of loins of Joseph of Egypt, and out of the seed of Joseph (son of Lehi, descendant of Joseph of Egypt).

See verse 24

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Shawn Henry
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Re: 2 Restorations? Yes (not 1 or 3)

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Alexander wrote: November 19th, 2022, 4:28 pm The servant comes from the fruit of loins of Joseph of Egypt, and out of the seed of Joseph (son of Lehi, descendant of Joseph of Egypt).

See verse 24
Thanks for clarifying, I can see why you might say that. Obviously, Lehi is telling his son why he thinks his seed won't be destroyed because they hearken unto the book and one could say it seems Lehi might think the one mighty among comes from his loins, but I don't see that in the previous portion that is directly the prophecy itself.

I'm assuming that we agree that this is a two-part prophecy and that JS was of Ephraim and if that is the case, do you think "shall rise up" refers to being born and raised from youth, meaning someone will yet be named Joseph and also have a father named Joseph and thus fulfill the prophecy again?

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ransomme
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Re: 2 Restorations? Yes (not 1 or 3)

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FYI the BoM and D&C are clear about two restorations. The Book of Mormon is split into two parts: the lesser things and the greater things.

Joseph Smith restored the lesser things and it is meant to test our faith. This is why the Church was, rather is under condemnation because we have taken lightly the things that we have been given.

We are still waiting for the greater things to be revealed, to receive the sealed portion.

Ether 4 explains some of this. It won't be given until the Day of the Lord, the Time of the End, when we see the book of revelation unfolding upon the Earth.



14 Come unto me, O ye house of Israel, and it shall be made manifest unto you how great things the Father hath laid up for you, from the foundation of the world; and it hath not come unto you, because of unbelief.
15 Behold, when ye shall rend that veil of unbelief which doth cause you to remain in your awful state of wickedness, and hardness of heart, and blindness of mind, then shall the great and marvelous things which have been hid up from the foundation of the world from you—yea, when ye shall call upon the Father in my name, with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, then shall ye know that the Father hath remembered the covenant which he made unto your fathers, O house of Israel.
16 And then shall my revelations which I have caused to be written by my servant John be unfolded in the eyes of all the people. Remember, when ye see these things, ye shall know that the time is at hand that they shall be made manifest in very deed.
17 Therefore, when ye shall receive this record ye may know that the work of the Father has commenced upon all the face of the land.

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Alexander
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Re: 2 Restorations? Yes (not 1 or 3)

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Shawn Henry wrote: November 19th, 2022, 9:34 pm
Alexander wrote: November 19th, 2022, 4:28 pm The servant comes from the fruit of loins of Joseph of Egypt, and out of the seed of Joseph (son of Lehi, descendant of Joseph of Egypt).

See verse 24
Thanks for clarifying, I can see why you might say that. Obviously, Lehi is telling his son why he thinks his seed won't be destroyed because they hearken unto the book and one could say it seems Lehi might think the one mighty among comes from his loins, but I don't see that in the previous portion that is directly the prophecy itself.
I'm assuming that we agree that this is a two-part prophecy and that JS was of Ephraim and if that is the case, do you think "shall rise up" refers to being born and raised from youth, meaning someone will yet be named Joseph and also have a father named Joseph and thus fulfill the prophecy again?
“there shall rise up one mighty among them [thy (Joseph Ben Lehi) seed]”

He comes from the seed of Joseph (son of Lehi). Lehi literally connects the prophecy to his son Joseph and his seed; out of the seed of Joseph of Egypt, one will rise up and fulfill a work that will benefit his brethren; that he being also of the seed of Joseph Ben Lehi, will rise up and fulfill a work that will benefit his brethren. Thus Joseph Ben Lehi is blessed.

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Shawn Henry
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Re: 2 Restorations? Yes (not 1 or 3)

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Alexander wrote: November 20th, 2022, 1:15 am “there shall rise up one mighty among them [thy (Joseph Ben Lehi) seed]”

He comes from the seed of Joseph (son of Lehi). Lehi literally connects the prophecy to his son Joseph and his seed; out of the seed of Joseph of Egypt, one will rise up and fulfill a work that will benefit his brethren; that he being also of the seed of Joseph Ben Lehi, will rise up and fulfill a work that will benefit his brethren. Thus Joseph Ben Lehi is blessed.
Yes, I see why you say that, but then we would have to maintain that Lehi singled out Joseph because his line would fulfill this rather any of his other sons, including Nephi and Jacob, nor did he tell this to Laman, which is odd, if he was to be a Lamanite, right? We do know the Nephite lines continue through their mixture with Lamanite seed, but we would have to maintain that Joseph's line remained dominant over his older brother.

Plus, we would have to ignore Joseph Smith being of Ephraim, not Manasseh and we would still need an explanation as to why the two parts of the prophecy don't match.

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Alexander
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Re: 2 Restorations? Yes (not 1 or 3)

Post by Alexander »

Shawn Henry wrote: November 20th, 2022, 12:58 pm
Alexander wrote: November 20th, 2022, 1:15 am “there shall rise up one mighty among them [thy (Joseph Ben Lehi) seed]”

He comes from the seed of Joseph (son of Lehi). Lehi literally connects the prophecy to his son Joseph and his seed; out of the seed of Joseph of Egypt, one will rise up and fulfill a work that will benefit his brethren; that he being also of the seed of Joseph Ben Lehi, will rise up and fulfill a work that will benefit his brethren. Thus Joseph Ben Lehi is blessed.
Yes, I see why you say that, but then we would have to maintain that Lehi singled out Joseph because his line would fulfill this rather any of his other sons, including Nephi and Jacob, nor did he tell this to Laman, which is odd, if he was to be a Lamanite, right? We do know the Nephite lines continue through their mixture with Lamanite seed, but we would have to maintain that Joseph's line remained dominant over his older brother.

Plus, we would have to ignore Joseph Smith being of Ephraim, not Manasseh and we would still need an explanation as to why the two parts of the prophecy don't match.
oh geez


Alright whatever man.

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Shawn Henry
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Re: 2 Restorations? Yes (not 1 or 3)

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Alexander wrote: November 20th, 2022, 2:30 pm oh geez


Alright whatever man.
Admittedly, not the intellectual response I was hoping for. Do you mind clarifying which part is the "oh geez" part? Which part do you agree with and where do you not and if not, why not? To me, this is a valuable thought exercise. Please don't feel I'm being argumentative, that's not my intent at all. I simply feel we learn much by seeing things from another perspective.

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Re: 2 Restorations? Yes (not 1 or 3)

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Here's another indication that we failed to build Zion. Isaiah saw that once Zion is established, she will never lose any of her stakes. All 4 stakes of Zion that were designated so by the Lord were removed: Kirtland, Jackson County, Far West, and Nauvoo.




Isaiah 33:20 Look upon Zion, the city of our solemnities: thine eyes shall see Jerusalem a quiet habitation, a tabernacle that shall not be taken down; not one of the stakes thereof shall ever be removed, neither shall any of the cords thereof be broken.

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Re: 2 Restorations? Yes (not 1 or 3)

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Shawn Henry wrote: December 1st, 2022, 12:29 am Here's another indication that we failed to build Zion. Isaiah saw that once Zion is established, she will never lose any of her stakes. All 4 stakes of Zion that were designated so by the Lord were removed: Kirtland, Jackson County, Far West, and Nauvoo.

Isaiah 33:20 Look upon Zion, the city of our solemnities: thine eyes shall see Jerusalem a quiet habitation, a tabernacle that shall not be taken down; not one of the stakes thereof shall ever be removed, neither shall any of the cords thereof be broken.
New stakes must secure a new church tent.

Anyone thought about forming a new stake?

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Shawn Henry
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Re: 2 Restorations? Yes (not 1 or 3)

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BeNotDeceived wrote: December 1st, 2022, 3:41 am Anyone thought about forming a new stake?
Many break offs have, but when the Marvelous Work and a Wonder actual begins there will be many mighty works associated with it, including more scripture, so that we will not have to simply rely on one person making a claim.

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Shawn Henry
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Re: 2 Restorations? Yes (not 1 or 3)

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marc wrote: November 16th, 2022, 4:01 pm Oh! I missed the link. Thanks for bringing it up again. It looks fascinating. Looking forward to watching the whole thing.
Still looking forward to watching? Minute 1:12 to about 1:26 is all. I promise, you'll like it!

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Re: 2 Restorations? Yes (not 1 or 3)

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Shawn Henry wrote: November 15th, 2022, 3:27 pmIt's too long, over 5 hours actually, but I listened to the whole thing, it's awesome. At least listen until he gets to the part where he shows how Utah is actually the restored Jewish Kingdom. The similarities are fascinating and will blow your mind.
Sorry, I forgot about this completely. I'll have to make time this weekend to watch it. But you're saying that he's saying that Utah is the restored Jewish Kingdom!? That's an interesting claim to be sure, particularly as there were two Jewish kingdoms and by Jewish, I mean Israelite, and not necessarily of Judah. Nephi considered himself Jewish though his family was of the Northern Kingdom, even though he hailed from the Southern Kingdom (Jerusalem). Maybe your guy deconstructs all this in his video. Thanks for reminding me!

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Re: 2 Restorations? Yes (not 1 or 3)

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How can we sing a song of the LORD in a foreign land?
If I forget you, O Jerusalem may my right hand cease to function.
May my tongue cling to the roof of my mouth if I do not remember you,
If I do not exalt Jerusalem as my greatest joy!

The psalm of a true Israelite.................Psalm 137, "By the Rivers of Babylon"

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Re: 2 Restorations? Yes (not 1 or 3)

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ransomme wrote: November 20th, 2022, 1:11 am FYI the BoM and D&C are clear about two restorations. The Book of Mormon is split into two parts: the lesser things and the greater things.

Joseph Smith restored the lesser things and it is meant to test our faith. This is why the Church was, rather is under condemnation because we have taken lightly the things that we have been given.

We are still waiting for the greater things to be revealed, to receive the sealed portion.

Ether 4 explains some of this. It won't be given until the Day of the Lord, the Time of the End, when we see the book of revelation unfolding upon the Earth.



14 Come unto me, O ye house of Israel, and it shall be made manifest unto you how great things the Father hath laid up for you, from the foundation of the world; and it hath not come unto you, because of unbelief.
15 Behold, when ye shall rend that veil of unbelief which doth cause you to remain in your awful state of wickedness, and hardness of heart, and blindness of mind, then shall the great and marvelous things which have been hid up from the foundation of the world from you—yea, when ye shall call upon the Father in my name, with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, then shall ye know that the Father hath remembered the covenant which he made unto your fathers, O house of Israel.
16 And then shall my revelations which I have caused to be written by my servant John be unfolded in the eyes of all the people. Remember, when ye see these things, ye shall know that the time is at hand that they shall be made manifest in very deed.
17 Therefore, when ye shall receive this record ye may know that the work of the Father has commenced upon all the face of the land.
The ongoing restoration of the last days started with Joseph Smith. There cannot be 2 separate restorations in our day because it is clear that there cannot be 3 times that the Lord sets his hands to restore His people. The 2nd time is the last time. Joseph Smith says that the 1st time was with Jesus Christ, and the 2nd time included the time when the authority to baptize was restored.

"Other sheep I have that are not of this fold..."

And "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together... "

These are evidences of the Lord trying to restore his covenant. Obviously there wouldn't be a need of a 2nd attempt if the 1st was successful.

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Re: 2 Restorations? Yes (not 1 or 3)

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Primary Outcast wrote: December 8th, 2022, 6:40 am
ransomme wrote: November 20th, 2022, 1:11 am FYI the BoM and D&C are clear about two restorations. The Book of Mormon is split into two parts: the lesser things and the greater things.

Joseph Smith restored the lesser things and it is meant to test our faith. This is why the Church was, rather is under condemnation because we have taken lightly the things that we have been given.

We are still waiting for the greater things to be revealed, to receive the sealed portion.

Ether 4 explains some of this. It won't be given until the Day of the Lord, the Time of the End, when we see the book of revelation unfolding upon the Earth.



14 Come unto me, O ye house of Israel, and it shall be made manifest unto you how great things the Father hath laid up for you, from the foundation of the world; and it hath not come unto you, because of unbelief.
15 Behold, when ye shall rend that veil of unbelief which doth cause you to remain in your awful state of wickedness, and hardness of heart, and blindness of mind, then shall the great and marvelous things which have been hid up from the foundation of the world from you—yea, when ye shall call upon the Father in my name, with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, then shall ye know that the Father hath remembered the covenant which he made unto your fathers, O house of Israel.
16 And then shall my revelations which I have caused to be written by my servant John be unfolded in the eyes of all the people. Remember, when ye see these things, ye shall know that the time is at hand that they shall be made manifest in very deed.
17 Therefore, when ye shall receive this record ye may know that the work of the Father has commenced upon all the face of the land.
The ongoing restoration of the last days started with Joseph Smith. There cannot be 2 separate restorations in our day because it is clear that there cannot be 3 times that the Lord sets his hands to restore His people. The 2nd time is the last time. Joseph Smith says that the 1st time was with Jesus Christ, and the 2nd time included the time when the authority to baptize was restored.

"Other sheep I have that are not of this fold..."

And "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together... "

These are evidences of the Lord trying to restore his covenant. Obviously there wouldn't be a need of a 2nd attempt if the 1st was successful.
The second restoration has two acts.

Read D&C 101:43-69

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Shawn Henry
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Re: 2 Restorations? Yes (not 1 or 3)

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Primary Outcast wrote: December 8th, 2022, 6:40 am The ongoing restoration of the last days started with Joseph Smith. There cannot be 2 separate restorations in our day because it is clear that there cannot be 3 times that the Lord sets his hands to restore His people. The 2nd time is the last time. Joseph Smith says that the 1st time was with Jesus Christ, and the 2nd time included the time when the authority to baptize was restored.

"Other sheep I have that are not of this fold..."

And "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together... "

These are evidences of the Lord trying to restore his covenant. Obviously there wouldn't be a need of a 2nd attempt if the 1st was successful.
You seem far too stubborn to be teachable, brother, but I suppose we all have to check ourselves there.

JS does not say when he thought the first time was, he only thought he was starting the second time. He knew it would have been the last time and therefore would have thought that it had to be the second time. He didn't see how his saints would fail.

Have you done a search on every time "restore" is used in the scriptures? It is never used in connection with the gospel or the church. Restoration means the people being restored to all the promises of the covenant, including their lands of inheritance. The Joseph Smith Papers project shows that the terms "restored gospel" and "restored church" were never used by anyone in the 1800's. It's an early 1900's creation. The gospel and the church have always been around in some lesser version or another.

Ransomme was correct, the first restoration was the lesser things and the second will be the greater things.

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Shawn Henry
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Re: 2 Restorations? Yes (not 1 or 3)

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InfoWarrior82 wrote: December 8th, 2022, 7:52 am
The second restoration has two acts.

Read D&C 101:43-69
The restoration has two acts. The first time the Lord attempt to gather all of Israel was under Joseph Smith. Joseph will return and succeed the second time he as the hand of the Lord is set again.

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Shawn Henry
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Re: 2 Restorations? Yes (not 1 or 3)

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Primary Outcast wrote: December 8th, 2022, 6:40 am the 1st time was with Jesus Christ
The first time could not have been at the time of Christ. How could he set "his hand" or rather his servant when he himself was there with both his hands and his feet and all of him? Do you think only his hand suffered in Gesemane?

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Re: 2 Restorations? Yes (not 1 or 3)

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Primary Outcast wrote: October 31st, 2022, 3:18 pm 1. How many times will the Lord restore his church? 2 times
1st: Matthew 23:37- O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

2nd: The restoration in 1830.
See Jacob chapter 5:16-29 for the first sequence, and Jacob 5:30-75 for the 2nd sequence
2. But if the restored church falls into apostasy, will there be a 3rd gathering? no. The 2nd time will be the Last time.
Jacob 6:2 And the day that he shall set his hand again the second time to recover his people, is the day, yea, even the last time, that the servants of the Lord shall go forth in his power, to nourish and prune his vineyard; and after that the end soon cometh.

see also 2 Nephi 6:14; 2 Nephi 21:11; 2 Nephi 25:17; 2 Nephi 29:1
3. Is there prophecy in the Book of Mormon about if the leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints would be faithful? Yes.
Jacob 5:72 And it came to pass that the servants did go and labor with their mights; and the Lord of the vineyard labored also with them; and they did obey the commandments of the Lord of the vineyard in all things.
4. But what about the prophecies in the Book of Mormon that says the Gentiles would reject the Lord? Yes, most of them will. Remember that the Jew rejected Christ when he ministered unto them, but a small fraction of the Jews accepted him and faithfully operated his Church, however despite this, the Jews are considered to have rejected Christ. The Gentiles will be the same.
3 Nephi 21:22 But if they (the Gentiles) will repent and hearken unto my words, and harden not their hearts, I will establish my church among them, and they shall come in unto the covenant and be numbered among this the remnant of Jacob, unto whom I have given this land for their inheritance;
5. Did Joseph Smith predict whether or not the church would fall into apostasy? Yes he prophesied that it would not according to his writings and first hand accounts from Orson Hyde, William G Nelson, Heber C Kimball, and Ezra T Clark, and a second hand account from Joseph Fielding Smith.
Joseph Smith:
“The Standard of Truth has been erected; no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing; persecutions may rage, mobs may combine, armies may assemble, calumny may defame, but the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly, and independent, till it has penetrated every continent, visited every clime, swept every country, and sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished, and the Great Jehovah shall say the work is done." (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, 4:540)

Orson Hyde:
Joseph the Prophet … said, ‘Brethren, remember that the majority of this people will never go astray; and as long as you keep with the majority you are sure to enter the celestial kingdom. (Orson Hyde, Deseret News: Semi-Weekly, June 21, 1870, p. 3.)

William G. Nelson:
The Prophet Joseph Smith said, “I will give you a key that will never rust, if you will stay with the majority of the Twelve Apostles, and the records of the Church, you will never be led astray.” (Young Woman’s Journal, Dec. 1906, p. 543)

Ezra T. Clark:
“I heard the Prophet Joseph say that he would give the Saints a key whereby they would never be led away or deceived, and that was: The Lord would never suffer a majority of this people to be led away or deceived by imposters, nor would He allow the records of this Church to fall into the hands of the enemy.” (Ezra T. Clark, “The Testimony of Ezra T. Clark,” July 24, 1901, Farmington, Utah; in Heber Don Carlos Clark, Papers, ca. 1901–74, typescript, Church Archives.)

Heber C. Kimball:
I will give you a key which Brother Joseph Smith used to give in Nauvoo. He said that the very step of apostasy commenced with losing confidence in the leaders of this church and kingdom, and that whenever you discerned that spirit you might know that it would lead the possessor of it on the road to apostasy. (Heber C. Kimball, Deseret News, Apr. 2, 1856, p. 26)

Joseph Fielding Smith:
“The Prophet declared that he knew not why, but the Lord commanded him to endow the Twelve with these keys and priesthood, and after it was done, he rejoiced very much, saying in substance, ‘Now, if they kill me, you have all the keys and all the ordinances and you can confer them upon others, and the powers of Satan will not be able to tear down the kingdom as fast as you will be able to build it up, and upon your shoulders will the responsibility of leading this people rest.’” (Doctrines of Salvation, comp. Bruce R. McConkie, 3 vols. (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1954–56), 1:259.
6. Is there anywhere else that says the church would or would not fall into apostasy in the last days? Yes, The Lord declared that the keys of the kingdom would remain with the 1st Presidency and Daniel said that the restored gospel would roll forth and would never fall into apostasy (D&C 65:2 confirms this to be the case). No scripture tells of an apostasy happening after the time of Joseph Smith.
D&C 81:22 Unto whom I have given the keys of the kingdom, which belong always unto the Presidency of the High Priesthood:

Daniel 2:44 And in the days of these kings (when the European nations gain strength in the 1800's) shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

D&C 65:2 The keys of the kingdom of God are committed unto man on the earth, and from thence shall the gospel roll forth unto the ends of the earth, as the stone which is cut out of the mountain without hands shall roll forth, until it has filled the whole earth.
7. But if I still believe that the church is in apostasy and the current Q15 and the 16 presidents since Joseph Smith are evil, lying conspirators, should I still take the sacrament, pay tithing, and get baptized? yes, and you should repent of your ways.
D&C 13:1 Upon you my fellow servants, in the name of Messiah I confer the Priesthood of Aaron, which holds the keys of the ministering of angels, and of the gospel of repentance, and of baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; and this shall never be taken again from the earth, until the sons of Levi do offer again an offering unto the Lord in righteousness.

D&C 121:16 Cursed are all those that shall lift up the heel against mine anointed, saith the Lord, and cry they have sinned when they have not sinned before me, saith the Lord, but have done that which was meet in mine eyes, and which I commanded them.

Yesterday morning, my family read from Mormon 8, which prophesies the falling away of the leaders of the church, and the apostasy of every single church, in the last days.

Mormon 8
24 And he knoweth their prayers, that they were in behalf of their brethren. And he knoweth their faith, for in his name could they remove mountains; and in his name could they cause the earth to shake; and by the power of his word did they cause prisons to tumble to the earth; yea, even the fiery furnace could not harm them, neither wild beasts nor poisonous serpents, because of the power of his word.

25 And behold, their prayers were also in behalf of him that the Lord should suffer to bring these things forth.

26 And no one need say they shall not come, for they surely shall, for the Lord hath spoken it; for out of the earth shall they come, by the hand of the Lord, and none can stay it; and it shall come in a day when it shall be said that miracles are done away; and it shall come even as if one should speak from the dead.

27 And it shall come in a day when the blood of saints shall cry unto the Lord, because of secret combinations and the works of darkness.

28 Yea, it shall come in a day when the power of God shall be denied, and churches become defiled and be lifted up in the pride of their hearts; yea, even in a day when leaders of churches and teachers shall rise in the pride of their hearts, even to the envying of them who belong to their churches.

29 Yea, it shall come in a day when there shall be heard of fires, and tempests, and vapors of smoke in foreign lands;

30 And there shall also be heard of wars, rumors of wars, and earthquakes in divers places.

31 Yea, it shall come in a day when there shall be great pollutions upon the face of the earth; there shall be murders, and robbing, and lying, and deceivings, and whoredoms, and all manner of abominations; when there shall be many who will say, Do this, or do that, and it mattereth not, for the Lord will uphold such at the last day. But wo unto such, for they are in the gall of bitterness and in the bonds of iniquity.

32 Yea, it shall come in a day when there shall be churches built up that shall say: Come unto me, and for your money you shall be forgiven of your sins.

33 O ye wicked and perverse and stiffnecked people, why have ye built up churches unto yourselves to get gain? Why have ye transfigured the holy word of God, that ye might bring damnation upon your souls? Behold, look ye unto the revelations of God; for behold, the time cometh at that day when all these things must be fulfilled.

34 Behold, the Lord hath shown unto me great and marvelous things concerning that which must shortly come, at that day when these things shall come forth among you.

35 Behold, I speak unto you as if ye were present, and yet ye are not. But behold, Jesus Christ hath shown you unto me, and I know your doing.

36 And I know that ye do walk in the pride of your hearts; and there are none save a few only who do not lift themselves up in the pride of their hearts, unto the wearing of very fine apparel, unto envying, and strifes, and malice, and persecutions, and all manner of iniquities; and your churches, yea, even every one, have become polluted because of the pride of your hearts.
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In spite of the popular philosophy of the modern church, the apostasy is not in the past, it is now. We see it unfolding before our very eyes. Most do not want to believe it. But, the witnesses, ancient prophets who saw our day, testify it happens. People like Mormon, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel, Ezekiel, Mark, and Jesus Christ.

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TheChristian
captain of 100
Posts: 722

Re: 2 Restorations? Yes (not 1 or 3)

Post by TheChristian »

The conditions and payment for the "Restoration of all things" was acomplished apon Calvary, the proof there of was the empty Tomb, He had risen!
And when that True Prophet, King, Priest and God returns to this earth Jesus of Nazerath you will see that Restoration in all its glory......

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cab
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3001
Location: ♫ I am a Mormon! ♫ And... dang it... a Mormon just believes! ♫

Re: 2 Restorations? Yes (not 1 or 3)

Post by cab »

We know about as much about the wrapping up scenes of the end times as the Jews did about Jesus’ coming in the meridian of time. Despite all the prophesied, they thought Messiah would be some kind of military leader. Likewise we know no more about the end times servant(s) as the Jews did about John the Baptist’s forerunner role.

He is going to confound all the wise in their own eyes. Perhaps consider likelihood that the scriptures are deliberately vague.

So how about you all quit acting like you’ve figured it out. It is a fool’s errand.

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