The 14 Fundamentals in context

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Shawn Henry
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The 14 Fundamentals in context

Post by Shawn Henry »

All of us are familiar with President Benson's talk titled, The 14 Fundamentals of Following the Prophet, but did you know that.....

President Kimball was quite upset that President Benson gave this talk and called him into his office and told him he should apologize to the 12 at their next meeting. Dissatisfied with that apology he then had President Benson apologize to the entire first quorum of the seventy the following week. Here are two well respected historians writing about it.

First is historian Dr. Matthew L. Harris from his book Watchman on the Tower: Ezra Taft Benson and the making of the Mormon Right. I haven't read the book but I've listened to a podcast that Dr. Harris did about the book. It was Mormon Stories Podcast episode 1351. he states that President Kimball called him into his office and said "you need to apologize to the quorum of the 12 at our Thursday meeting". He then states that after that happened President Kimball told him he wasn't sincere enough and that he wanted him to apologize the following week in the meeting with all the general authorities. Dr. Harris then states that there are a lot of references of this apology documented in the church archives by members of the first quorum of the seventy.

Second source is D. Michael Quinn's The Mormon Hierarchy: Extensions of Power, p. 111. Quinn writes that President Kimball wanted "to protect the Church against being misunderstood as espousing ultraconservative politics, or-in this case- espousing an unthinking 'follow the leader' mentality". Quinn continues "A general authority revealed that although President Kimball asked Benson to apologize to the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, they "were dissatisfied with his response," Kimball required him to explain himself to a combined meeting of all general authorities the following week."

Quinn then describes how President Benson's family felt anxious about the outcome and his son Mark wrote him a note that morning: "All will be well-we're praying for you and know all will be well. The Lord knows your heart."

So why wasn't this talk pulled? It seems that the precedent had been set back when Elder Romney and Elder Peterson reported back to President Mckay that McConkie's Mormon Doctrine had over 1000 errors and they decided not to pull the book as to not embarrass an Apostle.

So, if President Kimball had the keys at that time, shouldn't we be deferring to what he thought about that talk?

One further point, if you do a scriptural keyword search for the phrase "Follow the Prophet" you will get zero hits. The phrase does not exist in all of scripture. Some will say, what about section one "whether by my own voice", but the context of that scripture is referring to the prophecies within the D&C coming true because it's as God himself has spoken them.

It's, of course, the brethren's prerogative to emphasize any doctrine they want, but I personally am uncomfortable emphasizing a doctrine that cannot be found in scripture.


P.S. Can anyone refer me to any other books that have documented this issue with President Kimball and Benson?

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Re: The 14 Fundamentals in context

Post by 4Joshua8 »

The fourteen fundamentals are actually quite sound when changed to their true nature:

1. The Spirit of Prophecy is the Lord's own testimony. When a man speaks by the Spirit of Prophecy, he is putting into his words his understanding of the Lord's testimony given him by the Lord.

2. The Spirit of Prophecy is more vital to us than the standard works.

3. The Spirit of Prophecy is more important to us than a dead prophet.

4. The Spirit of Prophecy will never lead the church astray.

5. The Spirit of Prophecy is qualified to give direction on any subject at any time.

6. The Spirit of Prophecy does not have to say “Thus Saith the Lord,” to give us scripture.

7. The Spirit of Prophecy tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.

8. The Spirit of Prophecy is not limited by men’s reasoning.

9. The Spirit of Prophecy can give revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual.

10. The Spirit of Prophecy may advise on civic matters.

11. The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the Spirit of Prophecy are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.

12. The words that come by the Spirit of Prophecy will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.

13. God---the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost---have the Spirit of Prophecy.

14. The Spirit of Prophecy gives leadership. Follow it and be blessed, reject it and suffer.

EDIT: But, no, I don't have an answer to your question.
Last edited by 4Joshua8 on April 24th, 2021, 10:10 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: The 14 Fundamentals in context

Post by nightlight »

It was a ridiculous talk. Worst thing Benson did imo

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zionssuburb
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Re: The 14 Fundamentals in context

Post by zionssuburb »

I brought this up in my HPGL when we studied the ETB prophets book for Priesthood/Relief Society - I got mocked right out of the room. It was part of our curriculum within the last 5 years, so it's still considered OK for curriculum. I don't see anything in the SWK bio from DB, but I haven't reviewed the CD of the book as it existed before DB removed all the good stuff.

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Re: The 14 Fundamentals in context

Post by TrueFaith »

Can you provide links to you sources on this? Knowing where to show people the disagreement President Kimball had with President Benson would be a great resource for anyone using this silliness today.

It is maddening when you look at this and try to make sense of it. A man saying to follow the prophet, who is then overriden by his own prophet. So does that mean that Benson didn't need to apologize because Kimball disagreed with his talk saying we should always follow the prophet? kookoo!

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Re: The 14 Fundamentals in context

Post by JK4Woods »

zionssuburb wrote: April 23rd, 2021, 1:44 pm I brought this up in my HPGL when we studied the ETB prophets book for Priesthood/Relief Society - I got mocked right out of the room. It was part of our curriculum within the last 5 years, so it's still considered OK for curriculum. I don't see anything in the SWK bio from DB, but I haven't reviewed the CD of the book as it existed before DB removed all the good stuff.
Whaat....?!??....

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Shawn Henry
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Re: The 14 Fundamentals in context

Post by Shawn Henry »

TrueFaith wrote: April 23rd, 2021, 1:53 pm Can you provide links to your sources on this?
Links are digital. If paper isn't sufficient I would think you would have to buy the books on kindle and then you would have them digitally. I doubt the authors have allowed PDF's of their books to leak online, but I don't have any knowledge of the ways of piracy.

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Shawn Henry
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Re: The 14 Fundamentals in context

Post by Shawn Henry »

I'm curious to know how many already knew this versus those who have never heard this before.

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Re: The 14 Fundamentals in context

Post by AGoodGlobalCitizen »

I think President Benson understood the Book of Mormon and teachings from the early days of the church better than most leadership, and I find a number of his talks powerful, true and a good guide in life, but I don't think he was a prophet, seer or revelator.

I think he was awake to our awful situation and that he believed if the Book of Mormon is true, then the LDS church is true and if he was called to be a leader and moved up the ranks then that must mean he's a prophet.

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Re: The 14 Fundamentals in context

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

I'm reviewing Benson's talk for an essay I'm working on. I had no idea that Benson ended with this phrase:

"In conclusion, let us summarize this grand key, these “Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet,” for our salvation hangs on them."

This is blatant doctrinal corruption. Joseph was very clear in the original articles of faith in what constitutes salvation. And the Lord was quite clear as to what happens to those who add to or take away from His doctrine: https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/article-of-faith-4

__

This talk has been repeated several times, it is part of church "doctrine":

1980: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... t?lang=eng

2010: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... s?lang=eng

2010: (same GC) https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... l?lang=eng
Last edited by Reluctant Watchman on February 9th, 2022, 7:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The 14 Fundamentals in context

Post by Lizzy60 »

Shawn Henry wrote: April 25th, 2021, 7:31 pm I'm curious to know how many already knew this versus those who have never heard this before.
I’ve known this, that SWK was disapppointed in the talk, for over a decade. However, what good did it do to have ETB apologize to the Brethren, when the talk was given at BYU and transcripts of the talk were already distributed all over campus? SWK still protected his fellow “brother” by not asking him to apologize to the BYU students along with requesting all copies be destroyed.

When the talk was quoted TWICE during a General Conference In 2010, it reached pseudo-scripture status in Mormondom, since there was no backlash or rebuttal ever made.

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Post by tmac »

Stuff like this is interesting. ETB was an ultra-conservative, anti-UN, anti-socialism guy who was on the polar opposite end of the spectrum from where RMN and DHO have turned out to be. Consequently, he is considered essentially a rock star to conservatives. But if you really study and understand all of what ETB stood for, both in his high Church positions and in his Big Government position(s), it is pretty hard to reconcile. At the end of the day, like all of them, he was just a man with strong personal opinions, and little evidence that he was ever actually speaking for God -- just like SWK and the rest. They had differences of personal opinion, just like we do here. The record speaks for itself.

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Post by endlessQuestions »

I’ve still never seen the actual evidence that SWK asked ETB to apologize, or that ETB ever did.

Not saying it doesn’t exist; just saying I’ve seen this claim a hundred times, but never with any evidence.

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Re: The 14 Fundamentals in context

Post by Lizzy60 »

endlessismyname wrote: February 9th, 2022, 8:16 am I’ve still never seen the actual evidence that SWK asked ETB to apologize, or that ETB ever did.

Not saying it doesn’t exist; just saying I’ve seen this claim a hundred times, but never with any evidence.
Even the claims that he apologized state that it was just in private meetings with the Brethren. Since they are all dead now, it’s just a moot point. The talk was figuratively canonized in 2010 at general conference.

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Shawn Henry
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Re: The 14 Fundamentals in context

Post by Shawn Henry »

What the heck! This thread is missing an entire page. I had posted the two sources about ETB and someone had posted a third source, I think from Sheri Dew. That post and my response and other responses have disappeared. Has anyone seen that before?

We have a page eating Gremlin in the system.

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Re: The 14 Fundamentals in context

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endlessismyname wrote: February 9th, 2022, 8:16 am I’ve still never seen the actual evidence that SWK asked ETB to apologize, or that ETB ever did.

Not saying it doesn’t exist; just saying I’ve seen this claim a hundred times, but never with any evidence.
It’s been well-documented by people like D. Michael Quinn and Matt Harris.

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Re: The 14 Fundamentals in context

Post by Atrasado »

Shawn Henry wrote: April 23rd, 2021, 1:24 pm All of us are familiar with President Benson's talk titled, The 14 Fundamentals of Following the Prophet, but did you know that.....

President Kimball was quite upset that President Benson gave this talk and called him into his office and told him he should apologize to the 12 at their next meeting. Dissatisfied with that apology he then had President Benson apologize to the entire first quorum of the seventy the following week. Here are two well respected historians writing about it.

First is historian Dr. Matthew L. Harris from his book Watchman on the Tower: Ezra Taft Benson and the making of the Mormon Right. I haven't read the book but I've listened to a podcast that Dr. Harris did about the book. It was Mormon Stories Podcast episode 1351. he states that President Kimball called him into his office and said "you need to apologize to the quorum of the 12 at our Thursday meeting". He then states that after that happened President Kimball told him he wasn't sincere enough and that he wanted him to apologize the following week in the meeting with all the general authorities. Dr. Harris then states that there are a lot of references of this apology documented in the church archives by members of the first quorum of the seventy.

Second source is D. Michael Quinn's The Mormon Hierarchy: Extensions of Power, p. 111. Quinn writes that President Kimball wanted "to protect the Church against being misunderstood as espousing ultraconservative politics, or-in this case- espousing an unthinking 'follow the leader' mentality". Quinn continues "A general authority revealed that although President Kimball asked Benson to apologize to the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, they "were dissatisfied with his response," Kimball required him to explain himself to a combined meeting of all general authorities the following week."

Quinn then describes how President Benson's family felt anxious about the outcome and his son Mark wrote him a note that morning: "All will be well-we're praying for you and know all will be well. The Lord knows your heart."

So why wasn't this talk pulled? It seems that the precedent had been set back when Elder Romney and Elder Peterson reported back to President Mckay that McConkie's Mormon Doctrine had over 1000 errors and they decided not to pull the book as to not embarrass an Apostle.

So, if President Kimball had the keys at that time, shouldn't we be deferring to what he thought about that talk?

One further point, if you do a scriptural keyword search for the phrase "Follow the Prophet" you will get zero hits. The phrase does not exist in all of scripture. Some will say, what about section one "whether by my own voice", but the context of that scripture is referring to the prophecies within the D&C coming true because it's as God himself has spoken them.

It's, of course, the brethren's prerogative to emphasize any doctrine they want, but I personally am uncomfortable emphasizing a doctrine that cannot be found in scripture.


P.S. Can anyone refer me to any other books that have documented this issue with President Kimball and Benson?
Edward Kimball's biography of his father Spencer Kimball's years as President of the Church, Lengthen Your Stride: The Presidency of Spencer W. Kimball, covers this episode. He echoes what you reported others saying. And it only makes sense that President Kimball would reprove President Benson for that talk because the Lord has said that all of His words would be fulfilled and it doesn't matter if the prophet the Lord spoke through is dead or not. I think President Benson was unwittingly contributing to the idolatry that some have in the Church concerning the President of the Church.

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Re: The 14 Fundamentals in context

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Apparently, at least according to the following source, it was political views, not the “follow the prophet” stuff, that SWK had ETB apologize for…

“… “Benson’s Birch crusade was tempo- rarily interrupted when Harold B. Lee became church president in 1972” (87), but after Lee died unexpectedly, “Benson resumed his aggressive partisanship” (88). Spencer W. Kimball, who succeeded Lee and who had been called to the apostleship at the same time as Benson, tried with varying degrees of success to rein in Benson, who was now President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles and next in line to the Presidency. Finally, after Benson delivered a particularly controversial 1980 devo- tional address at Brigham Young University, Kimball asked “Benson to apologize to the Quorum of the Twelve but they ‘were dissatisfied with the response,’” so Kimball “instructed Benson to apologize again . . . to a combined meeting of all the general authorities.” Apparently, Benson took this lesson to heart. He never again “spoke exclusively in public about politics or communism” (103)...” - BYU Studies Quarter p 232 https://byustudies.byu.edu/wp-content/u ... iews-1.pdf

Image

Both Spencer W Kimball & Ezra T. Benson were called as apostleship at the same time.

My first impression is that SWK may have been following orders &/or projecting his own punitiveness. Considering when SWK lived (1895-1985), it’s not too surprising how racist he was, especially towards Native Americans. He was baptized twice (ages 8 & 12) & was married civilly before in the temple, despite his urging everyone to marry in the temple. Back then, it was before the rule of waiting a year after civil marriage before temple (rule was abt 1972-2019).

ETB worked for US pres Eisenhower’s cabinet in 1953 & suspected communists & conspiracies. He wanted to join Birch society but pres. David o McKay forbade - yet he still promoted, even more so after pres Harold b Lee unexpectedly died.

Image

^ “ 7th November 1957: Ezra Taft Benson (1899 - 1994), American Agricultural Secretary, visits Israeli prime minister David Ben-Gurion (1886 - 1973) in hospital at Jerusalem. Ben-Gurion is recuperating from injury after a hand grenade was thrown from the public gallery into parliament at Jerusalem.”

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Re: The 14 Fundamentals in context

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Luke wrote: February 16th, 2020, 12:20 pmEzra Taft Benson once said that he was more afraid of the Gadiantons in the Church Office Building than any of the political Gadiantons.
Hey, Luke, That’s ^ from another thread before, but I’m wondering if you know the quote. I’ve heard as much - actually sickening detail as to that & was surprised when I asked about it, on another forum, it was deleted off even an ex-Mormon forum.

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Post by Rubicon »

I wish the hierarchy, and members in general, were more comfortable with talks they disagree with. I don't like McConkie's Seven Deadly Heresies talk (and some items in Mormon Doctrine), but I recognize and acknowledge the good things he wrote and said. While I don't like parts of the 14 Fundamentals, that doesn't outweigh the many great things Benson wrote and said. It seems that people along the spectrum want people and things to be cancelled. They want whole talks to be removed and memory-holed or "cancelled."

I wish people were more comfortable with talks that can even be "wrong." There is a lot of good in Journal of Discourses, but more people (definitely the institutional church) would rather never refer to it or read/use it because of the small amount of "objectionable" items. I think our "safe" correlated state of things is much more boring and less dynamic and interesting (and inspiring), even if the cost for that is the possibility that you sometimes get head-scratching or embarrassing things. I wish general authorities weren't so sensitive to their words being recorded and transmitted that they give "safe," boring talks. If we have the authority and God is with us, then no "embarrassing" talks will matter or ultimately hurt us or the work.

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Re: The 14 Fundamentals in context

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endlessismyname wrote: February 9th, 2022, 8:16 am I’ve still never seen the actual evidence that SWK asked ETB to apologize, or that ETB ever did.

Not saying it doesn’t exist; just saying I’ve seen this claim a hundred times, but never with any evidence.
An active homosexual said it. It must be true!

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Re: The 14 Fundamentals in context

Post by BeNotDeceived »

Shawn Henry wrote: November 29th, 2022, 2:52 pm What the heck! This thread is missing an entire page. I had posted the two sources about ETB and someone had posted a third source, I think from Sheri Dew. That post and my response and other responses have disappeared. Has anyone seen that before?

We have a page eating Gremlin in the system.
How2 BackUp a Post

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Re: The 14 Fundamentals in context

Post by Thinker »

Luke,
Think I found it:

ETB was more afraid of those in charge in the church than those in Wa DC (2: 2nd hand account but confirmed by another) https://youtu.be/WvSYj2pE7NI

It seems almost obvious that he was silenced first outright & then maybe physically (hurt, meds etc). Some still try to paint him as a “crazy conspiracy theorist” but his warnings were similar to others like JFK & Justice Scalia before they were killed. Plus there’s the fact that their warnings are happening.

It’s known that others wrote as if it were from ETB. The cultish talk about following the prophet seems out of character to one warning of tyranny.

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Re: The 14 Fundamentals in context

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Thinker wrote: November 29th, 2022, 4:26 pm
Luke wrote: February 16th, 2020, 12:20 pmEzra Taft Benson once said that he was more afraid of the Gadiantons in the Church Office Building than any of the political Gadiantons.
Hey, Luke, That’s ^ from another thread before, but I’m wondering if you know the quote. I’ve heard as much - actually sickening detail as to that & was surprised when I asked about it, on another forum, it was deleted off even an ex-Mormon forum.
Kevin Kraut talked about it. He heard it off Benson’s massage therapist who Benson made the remark to.

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Re: The 14 Fundamentals in context

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*Why was Benson trying to get with the longest standing FBI director in US history (JE Hoover)?
*On what grounds is Welch’s “Blue Book” accusing so many of being communists?
*Did most Mormons really support the Democrat party before 1972?
*What did Cleon Skousen do for FBI & church leaders?
** How did ETB come to be mute/incapacitated so that Hinkley & Monson took over for about 10 years until ETB died?

*Did ETB or someone else write his apology?
*How did (Harold b) Lee die? Anything related to Benson’s incapacitation?
*Why did ETB support the Birch Society and then church leaders made joining it equal to apostasy?
*What motivated church leaders recently to amend the handbook with “beware of conspiracy theories”?

I think ETB meant well & did good in many ways but mixed up his racism with legitimate concerns of communism.

This dialogue (from where I ask the above questions) is biased but still interesting.

“…Benson was called as a Mormon apostle in 1943.

Joseph McCarthy starts up his antics and accusing everybody in any one at being a communist. ..Benson will be sucked into the Red Scare.

And around that time, (1960?) Benson was also trying to get in with J. Edgar Hoover, who was the first director of the FBI at the time. .. Hoover came to power in 1922 and he’ll serve until 1971-72, the longest-serving FBI director in the history of the country. That was true, then it’s true today…

And then after Benson leaves the cabinet, when Eisenhower’s second term is up in 61, in January when the next president is sworn in, Jack Kennedy. Benson becomes affiliated with the most extreme anticommunist organization in the United States called the John Birch Society…

John Welch… retired a young man and then formed this anti-communist organization. And he wrote a book called the Blue Book that was supposed to be for just private consumption among his closest friends and advisers.
But by 1961, it gets leaked to the press and Benson reads a copy of the Blue Book. And he’s taken in by some of its major assertions. One of which is that Dwight Eisenhower, Benson’s former boss, was a communist and that John Foster Dulles, the Secretary of State with whom Benson had worked was also a communist.
And that Alan Dulles, John Foster’s brother, who was the director of the Central Intelligence Agency, he too, was a communist. And Milton Eisenhower, Dwight’s brother and close confidant, was also a communist. So you have this retired businessman, turned millionaire, turned anticommunist alleging that a five-star general and his closest advisers are all communists and Benson just takes this all in, lock, stock and barrel. And he writes Hoover in the early sixties, and he said, ‘Did you know this, he’s a communist and what’s going on?’

…Benson latches onto these radical ideas and Hoover wants nothing to do with it…

Mormons today, of course, they still identify more than any other religious group in the United States identifies as Republican. And this shift to the GOP, the Grand Old Party, begins in 1972, but prior to that, Mormon supported Democratic Party politics. In fact, Mormons had received more government assistance during the Great Depression and the New Deal than any other place in the country per capita…

Mormons ignore it. They vote for Franklin Roosevelt and they also vote for the second, most robust liberal in the 20th century, a guy named Lyndon Baines Johnson who’s essentially Franklin Roosevelt on steroids. And Lyndon Johnson extends the welfare state. He’s a big FDR supporter and he creates new government programs like Medicaid and Medicare, like Headstart…

But more than that, they’ve (Lds) been told by Apostle Benson that the Democratic Party is really a communist organization. It’s a wolf in sheep’s clothing. And so, Benson had spent a good part of his ministry besmirching the Democratic Party. In fact, he wrote a book in 1962 called The Red Carpet and he argued that America’s descent into communism was a three-stage process. It was like a red carpet. You walk down that carpet and ultimately, it’s going to take you to a place where you don’t want to be.
And that the first part was you become a Democrat. This is Franklin Roosevelt. Then you become a socialist. And then, of course, you descend into communism…

Benson is telling the world that you can’t be a good Mormon and a good Democrat.
And Spencer Kimball calls him in. He says, look Apostle Benson, you can’t say this... And Benson had also said a bunch of things that were very critical of the civil rights movement, the NAACP, and Dr. King.

…from 1852 to 1978, a 126-year period, the Mormon church had denied… priesthood… to blacks and also denied blacks the right to enjoy the full privileges of Mormon temples.

…Benson gave a speech …Brigham Young University in February of 1980. And it’s one of the most controversial speeches that he had ever given… he’s the second most senior apostle in the church, meaning that when the church president Kimball died, Benson by virtue of his seniority would be the new church president… He said one, that the current church prophet is more important than a dead prophet. Number two, the church prophet can speak for God in political affairs. And this sends shockwaves throughout the church…

Spencer Kimball calls him in yet again… and he makes some apologize before all…Twelve Apostles and also the First Presidency…Kimball didn’t think his apology to the Quorum of the Twelve was sufficiently contrite. So he made him come back the following week and apologize to all of the General Authorities… Kimball is humiliating this senior church leader by making him apologize…

He wrote an apology, or the church handlers probably wrote it, the legal team possibly. But there is an apology in his papers that I’ve seen for what he said, but it’s not clear if he delivered it. And moreover, it’s not clear who wrote it. My sense is he didn’t write it. It doesn’t read like him…

…by the 1980s, when he’s the church president, there’s been this 30-year pushed to muzzle him, to sort of calm him down….

…church leaders said that anyone –this is in the early nineties–anyone who affiliates with the John Birch Society could be considered in apostasy… Benson’s still alive, but he’s in poor health, I mean really poor health. He can’t even talk, he’s got feeding tubes in his body, and he just can’t talk. But they’re writing him letters. They’re saying, ‘Dear President Benson, do you know what they’re saying?’ Meaning the other church leaders. ‘I’m a Bircher and you’ve told us to join the Birch Society. Now they’re telling us that we’re an apostasy if we’re affiliating with this group.’
 And they’re really confused. And they also accused Ezra Taft benson’s two counselors, a guy named Gordon Hinckley and a guy named Thomas Monson, of usurping Ezra Taft Benson’s authority, because they’re the moderates that are leading the charge to cut back on right-wing extremism.
And one last thing about this, is that the church leaders changed the church handbook. And in 1990, during Benson’s presidency, he’s in poor health, in 1990, they put a little clause in the church handbook that says, it’s okay to receive government assistance if you need it. Don’t be relying on it, but it’s okay. And that was the first time that had ever been stated publicly. Because prior to that, Benson had always said that don’t ever take a handout from the government…

…he gives the most famous talk he’d ever given. It’s called the “The Proper Role of Government.” And this is the context is he’s using this as a campaign address should he get permission to run with Wallace…
He offers a blueprint to completely destroy the welfare state, to get rid of it. And he calls Medicaid and Medicare communist programs that are destroying our country. And the proper sphere of government, that speech that Benson had created in 1968 as a campaign speech to run with Wallace, it becomes the basis upon which the the American Independent Party in Utah is formed.

…Cleon Skousen…received a bachelor’s of law degree from George Washington University in the 1930s. Today, we’d call it a Juris Doctorate. ..he went to work for the FBI in the 1930s. And he was there for a short period before he taught religion at BYU. He’s got no credentials to teach religion, but they wanted him because…. They thought that some of the BYU faculty were becoming too liberal, even socialistic.
And so they wanted Skousen in as a counterpoint to this. .. after he left the FBI he became the police chief in Salt Lake City for a very short period.

He says stuff like ‘You’ve got to listen to me because I worked closely with Director Hoover… Hoover writes back, ‘I didn’t even know who this guy is.’ And then Hoover has some of his underlings look and verify that Skousen did, in fact, work for the bureau. .. like four layers of bureaucracy away from the director…

(Harold b) Lee and Benson were boyhood friends. They both grew up in Idaho together, just a few miles apart, in these small Idaho communities. And Lee was a tempestuous figure. He didn’t have the patience of David O. McKay. And so when Benson and other Latter-day Saints approached him to let Benson run for presidential ticket, Lee just yelled, ‘Don’t ever ask me again! No!’ And so Lee just put the kibosh on it…

…we’re witnessing on Facebook and various social media venues, some Latter-day Saints of long standing, they’re leaving the faith over this because they think the church is leading them astray when it comes to these vaccinations.

…Public Religion Research Institute did a survey recently in July of about 5,000 people and they found that Mormons and white and Hispanic evangelicals were the groups with the highest percentage of people most likely to refuse Covid-19 vaccinations.
But that said, the majority of Mormons were vaccinated or said they were going to be. And so what you really have is this very sizable and vocal minority that is extremely anti-vaccine and they seem to be causing problems for the Mormon church leaders just like their counterparts in the evangelical world are for theirs…

In December of 2020, they added a clause into the handbook that they had never added before, which is beware of conspiracy theories.”

https://flux.community/matthew-sheffiel ... -extremism

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