Once you have finished taking the sacrament, that's the important part over and done with. The rest might be edifying but is sometimes a bit 'fluffy'.Jonesy wrote: ↑November 28th, 2022, 5:07 am I was leading the discussion on personal revelation this last Sunday (conference-based talk). One guy made a comment that some of his relatives have a big disagreement with the prophet as he scoffed saying this is something we’ve learned since, you know,—primary, while quickly humming the tune. I was speechless at first. All I could muster up was that the church has openly admitted to making mistakes in recent past, and that we should always confirm any leaders’ words by the Spirit. I also thought of Joseph Smith’s words that we should not depend on the prophet and not neglect the duties devolving upon ourselves, but unfortunately didn’t. At the time it didn’t feel right, so hopefully what I said was enough. However, I will say that I felt guided in saying other things and the spirit was definitely present. I still feel the Spirit working with me at church and that’s where I’m supposed to be. It’s true that it’s boring, but you have to make it worthwhile for yourself and make it interesting. Speak out. Sometimes I’ve felt strongly led to make comments, while other times I fell flat. Besides sacrament, I haven’t been bored since I’ve made more efforts to be more bold.
Sacrament meeting talks today
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Re: Sacrament meeting talks today
- Jonesy
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Re: Sacrament meeting talks today
Absolutely. Being more bold at church is necessary these days. I just can’t sympathize with anyone that complains and whines about the church without making any effort to be the change. I can definitely empathize about being treated unfairly while trying to make a difference, though. If those with the keys insist that they’re the only ones to lead, I will gladly let them own up to that.Dave62 wrote: ↑November 28th, 2022, 5:21 amOnce you have finished taking the sacrament, that's the important part over and done with. The rest might be edifying but is sometimes a bit 'fluffy'.Jonesy wrote: ↑November 28th, 2022, 5:07 am I was leading the discussion on personal revelation this last Sunday (conference-based talk). One guy made a comment that some of his relatives have a big disagreement with the prophet as he scoffed saying this is something we’ve learned since, you know,—primary, while quickly humming the tune. I was speechless at first. All I could muster up was that the church has openly admitted to making mistakes in recent past, and that we should always confirm any leaders’ words by the Spirit. I also thought of Joseph Smith’s words that we should not depend on the prophet and not neglect the duties devolving upon ourselves, but unfortunately didn’t. At the time it didn’t feel right, so hopefully what I said was enough. However, I will say that I felt guided in saying other things and the spirit was definitely present. I still feel the Spirit working with me at church and that’s where I’m supposed to be. It’s true that it’s boring, but you have to make it worthwhile for yourself and make it interesting. Speak out. Sometimes I’ve felt strongly led to make comments, while other times I fell flat. Besides sacrament, I haven’t been bored since I’ve made more efforts to be more bold.
- InfoWarrior82
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Re: Sacrament meeting talks today
Just found it extremely ironicinnocentoldguy wrote: ↑November 27th, 2022, 11:56 pmIs that a bad thing?InfoWarrior82 wrote: ↑November 27th, 2022, 2:07 pm Today the theme was "finding truth". All based on a talk from President Nelson. It seems every week is based off a talk from him.
- JandD6572
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Re: Sacrament meeting talks today
I sure hope your comment is in jest, because there is no one in this world that needs to sustain any worldly church leader in order to come unto Christ.Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑November 27th, 2022, 2:35 pmAs humorous as that new verse of scripture may sound, it’s true. You must sustain him, his brethren, and all other leaders in order to come unto Christ.Mamabear wrote: ↑November 27th, 2022, 2:27 pm“Russell saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”InfoWarrior82 wrote: ↑November 27th, 2022, 2:07 pm Today the theme was "finding truth". All based on a talk from President Nelson. It seems every week is based off a talk from him.
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Re: Sacrament meeting talks today
Overheard yesterday....a group of youth talking about their interactions with the Fabulous 15.
Kid 1:. I met Elder-_____ when he came to dedicate ____.
Kid 2: And you got to talk with him?
Kid 1: No, they wouldn't let us, but we could fist bump him, but no handshakes.
Kid 3:. Elder_____ was in my ward where we used to live
Kid 1: so you talked with him?
Kid 3: ha, no the security guards wouldn't let you get close to him.
My heart weeps because of the world we live in.
Kid 1:. I met Elder-_____ when he came to dedicate ____.
Kid 2: And you got to talk with him?
Kid 1: No, they wouldn't let us, but we could fist bump him, but no handshakes.
Kid 3:. Elder_____ was in my ward where we used to live
Kid 1: so you talked with him?
Kid 3: ha, no the security guards wouldn't let you get close to him.
My heart weeps because of the world we live in.
Last edited by tribrac on November 28th, 2022, 7:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Sacrament meeting talks today
So you don’t sustain them? Your salvation hangs in the balance.JandD6572 wrote: ↑November 28th, 2022, 6:09 amI sure hope your comment is in jest, because there is no one in this world that needs to sustain any worldly church leader in order to come unto Christ.Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑November 27th, 2022, 2:35 pmAs humorous as that new verse of scripture may sound, it’s true. You must sustain him, his brethren, and all other leaders in order to come unto Christ.Mamabear wrote: ↑November 27th, 2022, 2:27 pm“Russell saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”InfoWarrior82 wrote: ↑November 27th, 2022, 2:07 pm Today the theme was "finding truth". All based on a talk from President Nelson. It seems every week is based off a talk from him.
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Re: Sacrament meeting talks today
Our talks were about gratitude and becoming a Zion people. They were really good.
- Robin Hood
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Re: Sacrament meeting talks today
They have them in London.Niemand wrote: ↑November 27th, 2022, 2:24 pmWe didn't have that here because we have no such machines in this country. But we did have a talk from Pres. Oaks which praised corporate charities.TwochurchesOnly wrote: ↑November 27th, 2022, 1:03 pm Church of what's happening now --
Big push for lighting the world/ Giving machines -
Started off with " because I have been given much" hymn
Which is a good message, but, the talks were weird - had to leave
Saw New poster "Giving Machine" on way out
I'm guessing the message was coordinated/ mandated for all wards - maybe the way the big push for missionaries mtg topic was in the summer
- BigT
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Re: Sacrament meeting talks today
We get an email every week telling us what the EQ lesson will be based on. It's always conference talks. Always. Ugh. Sacrament meeting is the same. Haven't been to church in months (except for a baby blessing in another ward).
- JandD6572
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Re: Sacrament meeting talks today
No, I do not sustain them, my salvation hangs by a thread only if I refuse to follow Christ and accept him as my savior, not by you stating that I don't follow these worldly men.Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑November 28th, 2022, 7:14 amSo you don’t sustain them? Your salvation hangs in the balance.JandD6572 wrote: ↑November 28th, 2022, 6:09 amI sure hope your comment is in jest, because there is no one in this world that needs to sustain any worldly church leader in order to come unto Christ.Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑November 27th, 2022, 2:35 pmAs humorous as that new verse of scripture may sound, it’s true. You must sustain him, his brethren, and all other leaders in order to come unto Christ.
- Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Sacrament meeting talks today
I'm actually glad that you have the conviction to make such a statement publicly. I applaud you for that. I was trolling you a bit there. And yes, my comment was in jest. I was simply stating the LDS org version of what salvation looks like. Which obviously does not align with what Christ taught.
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Re: Sacrament meeting talks today
Conference talks for EQ meeting is mandated via the handbook. Conference talks for Sacrament meeting is just a tradition that has started up somehow over the last decade. I suspect it has happened because it is easier than figuring out real topics or scriptures, and they feel it is helping the ward members know what the Lord is saying via our current PSR's.
- ransomme
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Re: Sacrament meeting talks today
It's true that that is what is printed in the manual...but I told the Elder's quorum presidency that I wouldn't conform to that. One year later, I'm still here.Serragon wrote: ↑November 28th, 2022, 9:59 amConference talks for EQ meeting is mandated via the handbook. Conference talks for Sacrament meeting is just a tradition that has started up somehow over the last decade. I suspect it has happened because it is easier than figuring out real topics or scriptures, and they feel it is helping the ward members know what the Lord is saying via our current PSR's.
It's difficult using Conference Talks because a need to correct doctrine during the lesson disrupts the lesson. The time is too short.
It's like what Ezra Taft Benson said during Conference,
"Not only are there apostates in our midst, but there are apostate doctrines sometimes taught in our classes and from our pulpits and which appear in our publications. These apostate precepts of men cause our people to stumble. The BoM, speaking of our day, states, "...they have all gone astray save it be a few, who are humble followers of Christ; nevertheless, they are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men."
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Re: Sacrament meeting talks today
In 2008, the church launched a big campaign to prevent gay marriage in California from becoming codified into law. Today, they've thrown their support behind a bill that would codify it at the federal level. They also issued a statement to the effect that gays actually do have a right to marriage and always have.innocentoldguy wrote: ↑November 28th, 2022, 12:11 am The church's stance on gay marriage hasn't changed. They've always fought against it and have continued that fight until today. Unfortunately, the US and other parts of the world have chosen to ignore the Lord and embrace wickedness. The church cannot take away people's free agency, so they have to do the best they can with the laws we have, and try to minimize the impact those laws will have on our religious freedoms. What else do you expect them to do?
I'd say that's a change.
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Re: Sacrament meeting talks today
What is ironic about it?InfoWarrior82 wrote: ↑November 28th, 2022, 5:47 amJust found it extremely ironicinnocentoldguy wrote: ↑November 27th, 2022, 11:56 pmIs that a bad thing?InfoWarrior82 wrote: ↑November 27th, 2022, 2:07 pm Today the theme was "finding truth". All based on a talk from President Nelson. It seems every week is based off a talk from him.
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Re: Sacrament meeting talks today
The church never said gays always had a right to marry. Here is their statement: https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.or ... -statementh_p wrote: ↑November 28th, 2022, 11:48 amIn 2008, the church launched a big campaign to prevent gay marriage in California from becoming codified into law. Today, they've thrown their support behind a bill that would codify it at the federal level. They also issued a statement to the effect that gays actually do have a right to marriage and always have.innocentoldguy wrote: ↑November 28th, 2022, 12:11 am The church's stance on gay marriage hasn't changed. They've always fought against it and have continued that fight until today. Unfortunately, the US and other parts of the world have chosen to ignore the Lord and embrace wickedness. The church cannot take away people's free agency, so they have to do the best they can with the laws we have, and try to minimize the impact those laws will have on our religious freedoms. What else do you expect them to do?
I'd say that's a change.
They clearly say that marriage is between a man and a woman and that this doctrine won't change. Then, they acknowledge that gays have a right to marry (which they have for almost 10 years now, right?). The world has chosen the path of sin and the law upholds them in this path. The church must recognize this and work around it, or ditch the twelfth Article of Faith and find them self at odds with the law and subject to the penalties thereof.
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Re: Sacrament meeting talks today
They didn't clearly say anything of the sort. Instead of loudly and clearly proclaiming true doctrine, they said the following: "The doctrine of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints related to marriage between a man and a woman is well known and will remain unchanged."innocentoldguy wrote: ↑November 28th, 2022, 12:17 pmThe church never said gays always had a right to marry. Here is their statement: https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.or ... -statementh_p wrote: ↑November 28th, 2022, 11:48 amIn 2008, the church launched a big campaign to prevent gay marriage in California from becoming codified into law. Today, they've thrown their support behind a bill that would codify it at the federal level. They also issued a statement to the effect that gays actually do have a right to marriage and always have.innocentoldguy wrote: ↑November 28th, 2022, 12:11 am The church's stance on gay marriage hasn't changed. They've always fought against it and have continued that fight until today. Unfortunately, the US and other parts of the world have chosen to ignore the Lord and embrace wickedness. The church cannot take away people's free agency, so they have to do the best they can with the laws we have, and try to minimize the impact those laws will have on our religious freedoms. What else do you expect them to do?
I'd say that's a change.
They clearly say that marriage is between a man and a woman and that this doctrine won't change. Then, they acknowledge that gays have a right to marry (which they have for almost 10 years now, right?). The world has chosen the path of sin and the law upholds them in this path. The church must recognize this and work around it, or ditch the twelfth Article of Faith and find them self at odds with the law and subject to the penalties thereof.
As to the rest, it has absolutely nothing to do with the 12th article of faith. The 12th article of faith is elevated and used by the church to justify their weakness. If our leaders really thought the AoF were so important that they must be obeyed at all costs we would still be focused on a literal gathering of Israel instead of the farce we see now.
- HereWeGo
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Re: Sacrament meeting talks today
I record and listen to every GC talk. I can re-listen to those I found to be good. I don't see a need to rehash what they have said since most of what they say is re-quoting and re-hashing. I was surprised that the Bishop asked the missionaries to speak of Christ. He usually asks people to speak about a specific GC talk. We get GC talk reviews in almost all church meetings. 3 weeks ago, he asked the ward clerk to speak about his travels around the world. We walked out because we didn't need to listen to a wealthy member of the ward talk about his extravagant travels.Serragon wrote: ↑November 28th, 2022, 9:59 amConference talks for EQ meeting is mandated via the handbook. Conference talks for Sacrament meeting is just a tradition that has started up somehow over the last decade. I suspect it has happened because it is easier than figuring out real topics or scriptures, and they feel it is helping the ward members know what the Lord is saying via our current PSR's.
I was surprised that Old Guy jumped me for my happiness about hearing actual scriptures in church. Perhaps he didn't comprehend the meaning of what I was saying. The 22 year old missionary was not a bumbling teen but gave a great talk and did it quite competently. I love the people of my ward. I ignore the false doctrine taught by others, taught out of ignorance, and go to support and love the members. I hope to be there for them when they begin to have faith crisis' because of changing stances and doctrine that they see in the corporate church. We've already worked with a couple of them.
Joseph Smith, the scriptures he produced and retranslated, and things Joseph taught are true doctrine of Christ. Changes since Joseph are not supported by "Thus sayeth the Lord" and come into question. I hope to be there when members' faith crisis comes so that I can bear witness of Joseph and his fruits.
- Dusty Wanderer
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Re: Sacrament meeting talks today
Just for entertainment, I've been keeping track over the last few months of whenever the scriptures are used in the adult talks in sacrament meeting. I will also accept a citing, as a support for what they have paraphrased.NowWhat wrote: ↑November 27th, 2022, 7:26 pm
I love being at church until the speakers announce that they are talking on so-and-so's Conference talk. When did this start?? I know why: so we don't go off-topic and say something that would be frowned upon by TPTB. As if Conference isn't boring enough, we have to listen to Sacrament talks and RS & PH lessons based on Conference talks.
It's been 6 weeks since the last time we had scripture quoted in sacrament meeting.
I've been floored at how conference talks, Church website and newsroom content, and the general handbook have supplanted the scriptures. And something I've observed is that generally only conference talks from the last few conferences will do.
Note: I'm in a stake calling that has me visiting other wards occasionally and during stake conference most wards simply used a scripture as their theme, which is great. However, my ward's theme was a custom fit, it was "Building Zion through inclusivity and acceptance of others."
Last edited by Dusty Wanderer on November 28th, 2022, 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- JandD6572
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Re: Sacrament meeting talks today
of course they will say the doctrine will not change, it isn't theirs to change, even Satan knows he can't change the doctrine of Christ.innocentoldguy wrote: ↑November 28th, 2022, 12:17 pmThe church never said gays always had a right to marry. Here is their statement: https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.or ... -statementh_p wrote: ↑November 28th, 2022, 11:48 amIn 2008, the church launched a big campaign to prevent gay marriage in California from becoming codified into law. Today, they've thrown their support behind a bill that would codify it at the federal level. They also issued a statement to the effect that gays actually do have a right to marriage and always have.innocentoldguy wrote: ↑November 28th, 2022, 12:11 am The church's stance on gay marriage hasn't changed. They've always fought against it and have continued that fight until today. Unfortunately, the US and other parts of the world have chosen to ignore the Lord and embrace wickedness. The church cannot take away people's free agency, so they have to do the best they can with the laws we have, and try to minimize the impact those laws will have on our religious freedoms. What else do you expect them to do?
I'd say that's a change.
They clearly say that marriage is between a man and a woman and that this doctrine won't change. Then, they acknowledge that gays have a right to marry (which they have for almost 10 years now, right?). The world has chosen the path of sin and the law upholds them in this path. The church must recognize this and work around it, or ditch the twelfth Article of Faith and find them self at odds with the law and subject to the penalties thereof.
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Re: Sacrament meeting talks today
So explain to me why we have openly homosexual missionaries who have dated the same sex and been romantically involved with the same sex proclaim there is nothing wrong with what they did, have no need to repent and are protected by mission presidents.innocentoldguy wrote: ↑November 28th, 2022, 12:17 pmThe church never said gays always had a right to marry. Here is their statement: https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.or ... -statementh_p wrote: ↑November 28th, 2022, 11:48 amIn 2008, the church launched a big campaign to prevent gay marriage in California from becoming codified into law. Today, they've thrown their support behind a bill that would codify it at the federal level. They also issued a statement to the effect that gays actually do have a right to marriage and always have.innocentoldguy wrote: ↑November 28th, 2022, 12:11 am The church's stance on gay marriage hasn't changed. They've always fought against it and have continued that fight until today. Unfortunately, the US and other parts of the world have chosen to ignore the Lord and embrace wickedness. The church cannot take away people's free agency, so they have to do the best they can with the laws we have, and try to minimize the impact those laws will have on our religious freedoms. What else do you expect them to do?
I'd say that's a change.
They clearly say that marriage is between a man and a woman and that this doctrine won't change. Then, they acknowledge that gays have a right to marry (which they have for almost 10 years now, right?). The world has chosen the path of sin and the law upholds them in this path. The church must recognize this and work around it, or ditch the twelfth Article of Faith and find them self at odds with the law and subject to the penalties thereof.
That is a change in doctrine. Are we at the point of full acceptance of SSM, no. When, babies are blessed from homosexual "married" couples and those children are presented before the Church, it is all but saying... In he future SSM couples will be fully accepted in the Church.
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Re: Sacrament meeting talks today
That theme is crazy.Dusty Wanderer wrote: ↑November 28th, 2022, 12:57 pmJust for entertainment, I've been keeping track over the last few months of whenever the scriptures are used in the adult talks in sacrament meeting. I will also accept a citing, as a support for what they have paraphrased.NowWhat wrote: ↑November 27th, 2022, 7:26 pm
I love being at church until the speakers announce that they are talking on so-and-so's Conference talk. When did this start?? I know why: so we don't go off-topic and say something that would be frowned upon by TPTB. As if Conference isn't boring enough, we have to listen to Sacrament talks and RS & PH lessons based on Conference talks.
It's been 6 weeks since the last time we had scripture quoted in sacrament meeting.
I've been floored at how conference talks, Church website and newsroom content, and the general handbook have supplanted the scriptures. And an interesting observation is that generally only conference talks from the last few conferences will do.
Note: I'm in a stake calling that has me visiting other wards occasionally and during stake conference most wards simply used a scripture as their theme, which is great. However, my ward's theme was a custom fit, it was "Building Zion through inclusivity and acceptance of others."
What do these people think Zion is? If you keep allowing everyone into your club just because they exist, you will quickly find out your club is no different than the rest of the world. Someone should ask Enoch if that is how he did it.
Platitudes over conversion, I guess.
- Dusty Wanderer
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Re: Sacrament meeting talks today
It seems like many think Zion is just another name for the institution of the church or for a ward where most people like socializing with each other.Serragon wrote: ↑November 28th, 2022, 2:14 pmThat theme is crazy.Dusty Wanderer wrote: ↑November 28th, 2022, 12:57 pmJust for entertainment, I've been keeping track over the last few months of whenever the scriptures are used in the adult talks in sacrament meeting. I will also accept a citing, as a support for what they have paraphrased.NowWhat wrote: ↑November 27th, 2022, 7:26 pm
I love being at church until the speakers announce that they are talking on so-and-so's Conference talk. When did this start?? I know why: so we don't go off-topic and say something that would be frowned upon by TPTB. As if Conference isn't boring enough, we have to listen to Sacrament talks and RS & PH lessons based on Conference talks.
It's been 6 weeks since the last time we had scripture quoted in sacrament meeting.
I've been floored at how conference talks, Church website and newsroom content, and the general handbook have supplanted the scriptures. And an interesting observation is that generally only conference talks from the last few conferences will do.
Note: I'm in a stake calling that has me visiting other wards occasionally and during stake conference most wards simply used a scripture as their theme, which is great. However, my ward's theme was a custom fit, it was "Building Zion through inclusivity and acceptance of others."
What do these people think Zion is? If you keep allowing everyone into your club just because they exist, you will quickly find out your club is no different than the rest of the world. Someone should ask Enoch if that is how he did it.
Platitudes over conversion, I guess.
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Re: Sacrament meeting talks today
Easy! Sin. It's the same reason there are so many apostates on this forum who proclaim to follow Christ while rejecting his church and its leadership.spiritMan wrote: ↑November 28th, 2022, 1:34 pmSo explain to me why we have openly homosexual missionaries who have dated the same sex and been romantically involved with the same sex proclaim there is nothing wrong with what they did, have no need to repent and are protected by mission presidents.innocentoldguy wrote: ↑November 28th, 2022, 12:17 pmThe church never said gays always had a right to marry. Here is their statement: https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.or ... -statementh_p wrote: ↑November 28th, 2022, 11:48 amIn 2008, the church launched a big campaign to prevent gay marriage in California from becoming codified into law. Today, they've thrown their support behind a bill that would codify it at the federal level. They also issued a statement to the effect that gays actually do have a right to marriage and always have.innocentoldguy wrote: ↑November 28th, 2022, 12:11 am The church's stance on gay marriage hasn't changed. They've always fought against it and have continued that fight until today. Unfortunately, the US and other parts of the world have chosen to ignore the Lord and embrace wickedness. The church cannot take away people's free agency, so they have to do the best they can with the laws we have, and try to minimize the impact those laws will have on our religious freedoms. What else do you expect them to do?
I'd say that's a change.
They clearly say that marriage is between a man and a woman and that this doctrine won't change. Then, they acknowledge that gays have a right to marry (which they have for almost 10 years now, right?). The world has chosen the path of sin and the law upholds them in this path. The church must recognize this and work around it, or ditch the twelfth Article of Faith and find them self at odds with the law and subject to the penalties thereof.
The church doesn't condone homosexual behavior and they will excommunicate anybody involved in it. However, you can be gay and have engaged in homosexual behavior, repent of those activities and forsake them, and return to full membership. I have to question the efficacy of going through the motions of repentance while never having a change of heart though. Either way, this is an individual matter, not a church one.
Sorry, but these are all non-sequiturs.That is a change in doctrine. Are we at the point of full acceptance of SSM, no. When, babies are blessed from homosexual "married" couples and those children are presented before the Church, it is all but saying... In he future SSM couples will be fully accepted in the Church.
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Re: Sacrament meeting talks today
Actually, the Church is very rarely excommunicating gays who are having gay sex, including gays married to each other and attending their ward as active members. The Handbook was changed and no longer says gay marriage is apostasy, and the word “homosexual” is not found. Gay couples who are dating are held to the same standard as straight dating couples.innocentoldguy wrote: ↑November 28th, 2022, 2:48 pmEasy! Sin. It's the same reason there are so many apostates on this forum who proclaim to follow Christ while rejecting his church and its leadership.spiritMan wrote: ↑November 28th, 2022, 1:34 pmSo explain to me why we have openly homosexual missionaries who have dated the same sex and been romantically involved with the same sex proclaim there is nothing wrong with what they did, have no need to repent and are protected by mission presidents.innocentoldguy wrote: ↑November 28th, 2022, 12:17 pmThe church never said gays always had a right to marry. Here is their statement: https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.or ... -statementh_p wrote: ↑November 28th, 2022, 11:48 am
In 2008, the church launched a big campaign to prevent gay marriage in California from becoming codified into law. Today, they've thrown their support behind a bill that would codify it at the federal level. They also issued a statement to the effect that gays actually do have a right to marriage and always have.
I'd say that's a change.
They clearly say that marriage is between a man and a woman and that this doctrine won't change. Then, they acknowledge that gays have a right to marry (which they have for almost 10 years now, right?). The world has chosen the path of sin and the law upholds them in this path. The church must recognize this and work around it, or ditch the twelfth Article of Faith and find them self at odds with the law and subject to the penalties thereof.
The church doesn't condone homosexual behavior and they will excommunicate anybody involved in it. However, you can be gay and have engaged in homosexual behavior, repent of those activities and forsake them, and return to full membership. I have to question the efficacy of going through the motions of repentance while never having a change of heart though. Either way, this is an individual matter, not a church one.
Sorry, but these are all non-sequiturs.That is a change in doctrine. Are we at the point of full acceptance of SSM, no. When, babies are blessed from homosexual "married" couples and those children are presented before the Church, it is all but saying... In he future SSM couples will be fully accepted in the Church.