Once sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise; Eat, drink, and be merry

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Shawn Henry
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Once sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise; Eat, drink, and be merry

Post by Shawn Henry »

Have you ever compared these 2 paragraphs? Did section 132 simply rephrase 2 Nephi 8?

2 Nephi 28:8 8 And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God—he will justify in committing a little sin; yea, lie a little, take the advantage of one because of his words, dig a pit for thy neighbor; there is no harm in this; and do all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God.

D&C 132:26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife according to my word, and they are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment, and he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they commit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they shall come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation; but they shall be destroyed in the flesh, and shall be delivered unto the buffetings of Satan unto the day of redemption, saith the Lord God.

Notice in 2 Nephi it is said "a little sin" is justified. In Section 132, however, every sin is justified except murder, so this section allows for even more eating, drinking, and merriment. You just have to first make into the gool old boys club.

Is not being "delivered unto the buffetings of Satan" and then being redeemed the same thing as being beaten with a few stripes and then being saved?

Atrasado
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Re: Once sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise; Eat, drink, and be merry

Post by Atrasado »

That doesn't sound like beaten with a few stripes. It sounds like being spiritually nuked to me.

Rubicon
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Re: Once sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise; Eat, drink, and be merry

Post by Rubicon »

I believe in the possibility of advancing between kingdoms, but the nature of our eternal pre-existence and eternity is so vast, it is still an unspeakable tragedy to "botch" our second estate. As BH Roberts put it, while we may one day be where others were, we can never be where they are (because they, too, are progressing eternally and exponentially).

The buffetings of Satan I classify as here on earth and in the Spirit World. Those receiving them will wish that they had chosen and done differently. It's kind of like "destroyed in the flesh" from D&C 132 that critics try to tie to blood atonement. The same Brethren who made blood atonement proof text quotes in Journal of Discourses also explain that "destroyed in the flesh" means "buffetings of Satan" in this life --- not ecclesiastical execution.

I once wrote an article for FAIR about blood atonement that goes into this in more detail, with quotes. FAIR no longer has my name attached to it. <smile> (I haven't been a member of FAIR since 2011),

https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/arc ... l-no-tales

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madvin
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Re: Once sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise; Eat, drink, and be merry

Post by madvin »

Seems i may be guilty of the “selective orchard approach” when it comes to the assessments of our latter-day leaders.

Thanks for sharing that.

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Luke
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Re: Once sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise; Eat, drink, and be merry

Post by Luke »

It doesn’t even remotely say what you tried to make it say.

The principle is obviously true. Once God has sealed you, you’re sealed. But if you go about committing sin willingly in such a way, then there’s consequences. Generally, though, those who God seals are righteous men who don’t desire evil, having had a mighty change of heart.

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Shawn Henry
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Re: Once sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise; Eat, drink, and be merry

Post by Shawn Henry »

Luke wrote: November 26th, 2022, 1:11 am The principle is obviously true.
Which one? 132 where you marry virgins, get consent of the first wife, and don't marry other men's wives. Or the actual principle, where you marry divorced and already married women without the first wife's consent? Anyway, back to the thread.

I agree that there are differences in how it is written, but there is an obvious similarity, which your emotional investment won't let you admit.

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marc
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Re: Once sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise; Eat, drink, and be merry

Post by marc »

I can't help but be dubious about section 132 altogether.

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Luke
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Re: Once sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise; Eat, drink, and be merry

Post by Luke »

Shawn Henry wrote: November 26th, 2022, 9:41 am
Luke wrote: November 26th, 2022, 1:11 am The principle is obviously true.
Which one? 132 where you marry virgins, get consent of the first wife, and don't marry other men's wives. Or the actual principle, where you marry divorced and already married women without the first wife's consent? Anyway, back to the thread.

I agree that there are differences in how it is written, but there is an obvious similarity, which your emotional investment won't let you admit.
What “emotional investment” do I have? It has nothing to do with emotions.

There is no similarity. The doctrine of unconditional sealing isn’t unique to 132. If you have a problem with 132 because of that, then you’ll have a problem with many other Scriptures.

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LDS Physician
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Re: Once sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise; Eat, drink, and be merry

Post by LDS Physician »

marc wrote: November 26th, 2022, 9:49 am I can't help but be dubious about section 132 altogether.
Why so? Was it because it showed up 8 years after Joseph's death? Or maybe because it says the exact opposite of Jacob 4? Or ... any of a dozen other inconsistencies with truth?

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SJR3t2
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Re: Once sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise; Eat, drink, and be merry

Post by SJR3t2 »

Brings out how 2 Nephi (LDS 28:8) (RLDS 12:10-11) states that one thing is wrong and the supposed LDS D&C 132:26 says it is good, and actually a blessing for entering into polygamy.
https://seekingyhwh.org/2017/05/02/2-ne ... -dc-13226/

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Shawn Henry
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Re: Once sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise; Eat, drink, and be merry

Post by Shawn Henry »

Luke wrote: November 26th, 2022, 11:53 am There is no similarity.
Well, let me use plainer language.

In one case, you can commit a few sins and still be saved after you are beaten with a few stripes.

In the other case, you can commit a lot of sins and still be saved after being delivered over to Satan.

Are you still going to say there is no similarity?

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Luke
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Re: Once sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise; Eat, drink, and be merry

Post by Luke »

Shawn Henry wrote: November 26th, 2022, 8:55 pm
Luke wrote: November 26th, 2022, 11:53 am There is no similarity.
Well, let me use plainer language.

In one case, you can commit a few sins and still be saved after you are beaten with a few stripes.

In the other case, you can commit a lot of sins and still be saved after being delivered over to Satan.

Are you still going to say there is no similarity?
As someone pointed out, it’s hardly a few stripes. It’s literally being tormented in the worst possible way.

But like I said, God doesn’t just seal up people who would have that in their hearts. Such people are the exception.

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Wondering Wendy
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Re: Once sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise; Eat, drink, and be merry

Post by Wondering Wendy »

I'm not sure they are the same. According to this scripture, it seems like there is a point after we receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, that the atonement no longer covers our sins.
Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
So, those with their Calling and Election made sure, have already been sealed up to eternal life and the Celestial Kingdom. However, they are still here on the earth and are not perfected yet. They can still commit transgressions as they continue to learn and progress. If they commit something bad enough, then they have to pay for that themselves, as the atonement only covered them until the BoHS.

However, the promise of eternal life has already been sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise. The Lord will not take this away unless one commits murder of innocent blood or denies the HS.

The problem with this, is that Christians read the NT and think this applies to them, when all they have done is said a prayer accepting Jesus as their Savior. Then they believe in Once Saved Always Saved and go on about their sinful lives without ever repenting again.

However, those who have already gained their C&E and the HSoP have not done this. They have repented and followed the HS 100% before they ever received this promise. Also, because they have had the mighty change of heart, none of them want to have anything to do with satan and still have the godly desire to follow the HS and Christ.

This scripture (D&C 132) is just assuring them that they cannot lose their exaltation even if they mess up, because the Lord knows the atonement no longer covers them. One has to willfully commit murder of an innocent, or willfully turn their back on the HS, in order to nullify this promise on God's end.

Anyway, this is my current understanding. I do believe that 132 was tampered with, but that doesn't negate the entire chapter. Just as with the apocrypha, we need the HS to discern what is truth within it.

P.S. Those over at Elliaison have posted their understanding of 132. Something to prayerfully consider.

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TheDuke
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Re: Once sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise; Eat, drink, and be merry

Post by TheDuke »

So, read carefully what Peter says (2nd Peter ch 1) and D&C 132. Peter is talking about salvation (i.e. entry to celestial kingdom and joint heir with Christ) while JS is talking about exaltation (highest level of CK) but the principles are exactly the same. BTW I think the same can be said for all advances (terrestrial, etc), that is if you come here to obtain that reward and do that which is required (per pre-mortal plan) and obtain the reward, then you are sealed up to it. That means you earned it and can only lose it by sin against HG. However, it also means you must pay for any sin you commit (destroyed in the flesh or buffeting of Satan). I.e. either the atonement is no longer valid for those sins, or it is some how mooted and you must pay the price and cannot ask the savior to do so.

BTW the HSoP would never seal up someone who would eat, drink and be merry and sin. so, it is a very ignorant statement to think so. IMO. So, anyone thinks they have their C&E and sins for the hell of it, really doesn't have their C&E after all (IMO).

I guess the question then is what of those with the second anointing that go astray, as opposed ot someone with C&E via the holy spirit? I guess I just don't buy the second anointing is a guarantee of anything. Perhaps it is an additional step or something but I don't buy it is a guarantee.

Funny that one of the early prophets (cannot right now recall which one but I think either WW or Taylor) lamented one day that many of those that first received the second anointing before heading west became anti-Mormon and even attacked the Saints. He temporarily did away with the ordinance because of that. He couldn't reconcile how they could be sealed up to CK yet be so vile.

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ransomme
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Re: Once sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise; Eat, drink, and be merry

Post by ransomme »

It makes a mockery of enduring to the end, which is to say to sustain without yielding. What are we to sustain? The state of being baptized with fire.

blitzinstripes
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Re: Once sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise; Eat, drink, and be merry

Post by blitzinstripes »

The second anointings as done by the church, are simply participation trophies, or 'lifetime achievement awards' given by MEN. You are 'nominated' by your local leadership and stake presidency for towing the line, and usually you have to be financially successful and a large 'donor' type, etc. Think Murdock and Romney types. It is a Babylonian trophy of sorts.

It is NOTHING like the Holy Spirit of Promise which is given only by the Holy Ghost and the Lord's own voice. Another terrible err in doctrine and practice.

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