Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

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Wondering Wendy
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Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by Wondering Wendy »

innocentoldguy wrote: November 19th, 2022, 10:35 pm
It seems to me that you are cherry-picking bits and pieces that you think justify your rejection of the prophet. In your citation from Deuteronomy 18, you don't need to do more than look up from verse 22 to verses 19 and 20 to get a full understanding. Verse 19 clearly states that if you will not hearken to the words Christ gives you through the prophet, that he will "require it of [you]." I take this to mean whoever rejects or refuses to follow the prophet will be under condemnation, which agrees with all other scriptures on the subject.
I don't believe this is a correct interpretation. We are not to "follow", which I take to mean obey or emulate, a prophet, nor blindly heed his words. We are only to try to follow, emulate Christ. I believe this scripture means we are to heed the words of the prophet that actually come from Christ.

The only way we know if the words come from Christ, is if the Holy Spirit so testifies of them. Well, I personally have never heard them speak new words from Christ. If they ever do, I will definitely take them to the Holy Spirit for confirmation. If they get confirmed by the HS, then I will definitely hearken unto them as the Lord commands. 👍

Hearken to the words of Christ through the prophet ≠ Follow the prophet.

Hearken to the words of Christ through the prophet = Follow Christ.

innocentoldguy
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Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by innocentoldguy »

Wondering Wendy wrote: November 19th, 2022, 11:52 pm
innocentoldguy wrote: November 19th, 2022, 10:35 pm
It seems to me that you are cherry-picking bits and pieces that you think justify your rejection of the prophet. In your citation from Deuteronomy 18, you don't need to do more than look up from verse 22 to verses 19 and 20 to get a full understanding. Verse 19 clearly states that if you will not hearken to the words Christ gives you through the prophet, that he will "require it of [you]." I take this to mean whoever rejects or refuses to follow the prophet will be under condemnation, which agrees with all other scriptures on the subject.
I don't believe this is a correct interpretation. We are not to "follow", which I take to mean obey or emulate, a prophet, nor blindly heed his words. We are only to try to follow, emulate Christ. I believe this scripture means we are to heed the words of the prophet that actually come from Christ.

The only way we know if the words come from Christ, is if the Holy Spirit so testifies of them. Well, I personally have never heard them speak new words from Christ. If they ever do, I will definitely take them to the Holy Spirit for confirmation. If they get confirmed by the HS, then I will definitely hearken unto them as the Lord commands. 👍

Hearken to the words of Christ through the prophet ≠ Follow the prophet.

Hearken to the words of Christ through the prophet = Follow Christ.
How is this not just linguistic gymnastics to justify an unjustifiable position (rejecting prophets)? I'm sure the Jews of Christ's time had plenty such justifications, to the point that they didn't follow Christ when he was standing directly in front of them. In fact, they crucified him. Following the prophet IS following Christ, because Christ gives all directions for his church through his prophets. This has always been the case. The Holy Ghost will never direct you to reject a prophet. If it does, you're listening to the wrong spirit.

Also, if you've never heard prophets speak new words from Christ, you're not listening.

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Wondering Wendy
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Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by Wondering Wendy »

innocentoldguy wrote: November 20th, 2022, 10:45 pm
Wondering Wendy wrote: November 19th, 2022, 11:52 pm
innocentoldguy wrote: November 19th, 2022, 10:35 pm
It seems to me that you are cherry-picking bits and pieces that you think justify your rejection of the prophet. In your citation from Deuteronomy 18, you don't need to do more than look up from verse 22 to verses 19 and 20 to get a full understanding. Verse 19 clearly states that if you will not hearken to the words Christ gives you through the prophet, that he will "require it of [you]." I take this to mean whoever rejects or refuses to follow the prophet will be under condemnation, which agrees with all other scriptures on the subject.
I don't believe this is a correct interpretation. We are not to "follow", which I take to mean obey or emulate, a prophet, nor blindly heed his words. We are only to try to follow, emulate Christ. I believe this scripture means we are to heed the words of the prophet that actually come from Christ.

The only way we know if the words come from Christ, is if the Holy Spirit so testifies of them. Well, I personally have never heard them speak new words from Christ. If they ever do, I will definitely take them to the Holy Spirit for confirmation. If they get confirmed by the HS, then I will definitely hearken unto them as the Lord commands. 👍

Hearken to the words of Christ through the prophet ≠ Follow the prophet.

Hearken to the words of Christ through the prophet = Follow Christ.
How is this not just linguistic gymnastics to justify an unjustifiable position (rejecting prophets)? I'm sure the Jews of Christ's time had plenty such justifications, to the point that they didn't follow Christ when he was standing directly in front of them. In fact, they crucified him. Following the prophet IS following Christ, because Christ gives all directions for his church through his prophets. This has always been the case. The Holy Ghost will never direct you to reject a prophet. If it does, you're listening to the wrong spirit.

Also, if you've never heard prophets speak new words from Christ, you're not listening.
I disagree. The prophets were killed for speaking the words of Christ. It was His words they didn't like and rejected. If they were just speaking as themselves, no one would care.

Kind of like how it is today.

I'm not rejecting any prophets. I just don't think they actually are prophets. I'm not rejecting any of Christ's words from them, because there's no actual prophetic fruit to reject. 🤷🏼‍♀️

innocentoldguy
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Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by innocentoldguy »

Wondering Wendy wrote: November 21st, 2022, 12:48 am
innocentoldguy wrote: November 20th, 2022, 10:45 pm
Wondering Wendy wrote: November 19th, 2022, 11:52 pm
innocentoldguy wrote: November 19th, 2022, 10:35 pm
It seems to me that you are cherry-picking bits and pieces that you think justify your rejection of the prophet. In your citation from Deuteronomy 18, you don't need to do more than look up from verse 22 to verses 19 and 20 to get a full understanding. Verse 19 clearly states that if you will not hearken to the words Christ gives you through the prophet, that he will "require it of [you]." I take this to mean whoever rejects or refuses to follow the prophet will be under condemnation, which agrees with all other scriptures on the subject.
I don't believe this is a correct interpretation. We are not to "follow", which I take to mean obey or emulate, a prophet, nor blindly heed his words. We are only to try to follow, emulate Christ. I believe this scripture means we are to heed the words of the prophet that actually come from Christ.

The only way we know if the words come from Christ, is if the Holy Spirit so testifies of them. Well, I personally have never heard them speak new words from Christ. If they ever do, I will definitely take them to the Holy Spirit for confirmation. If they get confirmed by the HS, then I will definitely hearken unto them as the Lord commands. 👍

Hearken to the words of Christ through the prophet ≠ Follow the prophet.

Hearken to the words of Christ through the prophet = Follow Christ.
How is this not just linguistic gymnastics to justify an unjustifiable position (rejecting prophets)? I'm sure the Jews of Christ's time had plenty such justifications, to the point that they didn't follow Christ when he was standing directly in front of them. In fact, they crucified him. Following the prophet IS following Christ, because Christ gives all directions for his church through his prophets. This has always been the case. The Holy Ghost will never direct you to reject a prophet. If it does, you're listening to the wrong spirit.

Also, if you've never heard prophets speak new words from Christ, you're not listening.
I disagree. The prophets were killed for speaking the words of Christ. It was His words they didn't like and rejected. If they were just speaking as themselves, no one would care.

Kind of like how it is today.

I'm not rejecting any prophets. I just don't think they actually are prophets. I'm not rejecting any of Christ's words from them, because there's no actual prophetic fruit to reject. 🤷🏼‍♀️
You're welcome to be as wrong as you'd like. I'm certainly not going to stand in your way.

Atrasado
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Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by Atrasado »

innocentoldguy wrote: November 16th, 2022, 10:43 am
Mamabear wrote: November 15th, 2022, 2:33 pm
innocentoldguy wrote: November 15th, 2022, 2:01 pm
Atrasado wrote: November 15th, 2022, 1:17 pm

I didn't say anything about prophets being perfect. And the Lord didn't say anything about it either. He just said that if the prophet speaks in My name there is no excuse for them to be wrong or mistaken, at all. Like any other person, the prophet will sin and make mistakes and must repent, but according to the Lord's word, there is no latitude for error when they speak in the Lord's name. I didn't write those things, Moses and Ezekiel did. Don't we live by every word of the Lord? Then why don't those scriptures matter to you?
The basis of your post is that because you disagree with a statement the prophet made regarding vaccines that he "lied" to you and you should no longer follow him. Therefore, your implication is indeed an expectation of perfection and anything short of that is justification to reject the prophet.

If your post had instead been, "Why did the prophet tell us to take an experimental vaccine that has proven to be harmful?" (while ignoring the fact that he also said to decide for yourself by consulting a medical professional, to pray about it, and listen to the Holy Ghost) The Occam's razor answer would be something like:

* President Nelson was talking as a medical professional, taking cues from the likes of the CDC, WHO, AMA, etc.
* The Lord wanted people to take the vaccines for some external reason that we don't yet understand.

At no point should our response ever be to reject the prophet. The scriptures are clear on the consequences of doing that. My recommendation would be to let the Lord judge the prophet, since it isn't our place to do so.
“President Nelson was talking as a medical professional, taking cues from the likes of the CDC, WHO, AMA, etc.“

When was the last time Nelson performed surgery? He hasn’t been a medical professional for many years and thus couldn’t speak as one. Even those who spoke as medical professionals were wrong.
Your first statement is nonsense. It isn't like a decade of medical training, years of residency, and years of professional experience just disappear when you retire. I haven't worked as a sys admin for over 30 years but I still know how to do it.

I don't see the relevancy of your second statement, since there's nothing wrong with being wrong. We're all wrong multiple times every day. That's just part of the human experience.
You were a system administrator in the early 90s? I've been involved in the IT field for 20 years and if it has been 30 years since you worked in it you don't know how to do it anymore. At all. Even a little. It changes every year. Within three years your skills are outdated and within five years are mostly irrelevant.

Same with being a doctor. Things change all the time.

innocentoldguy
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Posts: 261

Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by innocentoldguy »

Atrasado wrote: November 22nd, 2022, 11:25 pm
innocentoldguy wrote: November 16th, 2022, 10:43 am
Mamabear wrote: November 15th, 2022, 2:33 pm
innocentoldguy wrote: November 15th, 2022, 2:01 pm

The basis of your post is that because you disagree with a statement the prophet made regarding vaccines that he "lied" to you and you should no longer follow him. Therefore, your implication is indeed an expectation of perfection and anything short of that is justification to reject the prophet.

If your post had instead been, "Why did the prophet tell us to take an experimental vaccine that has proven to be harmful?" (while ignoring the fact that he also said to decide for yourself by consulting a medical professional, to pray about it, and listen to the Holy Ghost) The Occam's razor answer would be something like:

* President Nelson was talking as a medical professional, taking cues from the likes of the CDC, WHO, AMA, etc.
* The Lord wanted people to take the vaccines for some external reason that we don't yet understand.

At no point should our response ever be to reject the prophet. The scriptures are clear on the consequences of doing that. My recommendation would be to let the Lord judge the prophet, since it isn't our place to do so.
“President Nelson was talking as a medical professional, taking cues from the likes of the CDC, WHO, AMA, etc.“

When was the last time Nelson performed surgery? He hasn’t been a medical professional for many years and thus couldn’t speak as one. Even those who spoke as medical professionals were wrong.
Your first statement is nonsense. It isn't like a decade of medical training, years of residency, and years of professional experience just disappear when you retire. I haven't worked as a sys admin for over 30 years but I still know how to do it.

I don't see the relevancy of your second statement, since there's nothing wrong with being wrong. We're all wrong multiple times every day. That's just part of the human experience.
You were a system administrator in the early 90s? I've been involved in the IT field for 20 years and if it has been 30 years since you worked in it you don't know how to do it anymore. At all. Even a little. It changes every year. Within three years your skills are outdated and within five years are mostly irrelevant.

Same with being a doctor. Things change all the time.
Interesting take. Maybe you could give some examples of how much things like workstations, DNS, TCP/IP, VPNs, Unix, printers, firewalls, switches, cables, cooling, security, etc. have fundamentally morphed into something else. Then, go ahead and illustrate how much anatomy, physiology, cardiology, surgery, and especially the process of reading medical advice from government agencies has fundamentally changed, since that's what we're actually talking about here. Small things change, yes, but the foundations of both disciplines stay relatively the same and those with the experience and aptitude for it have a pretty easy time jumping in after years away.

Atrasado
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Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by Atrasado »

innocentoldguy wrote: November 25th, 2022, 1:06 am
Atrasado wrote: November 22nd, 2022, 11:25 pm
innocentoldguy wrote: November 16th, 2022, 10:43 am
Mamabear wrote: November 15th, 2022, 2:33 pm

“President Nelson was talking as a medical professional, taking cues from the likes of the CDC, WHO, AMA, etc.“

When was the last time Nelson performed surgery? He hasn’t been a medical professional for many years and thus couldn’t speak as one. Even those who spoke as medical professionals were wrong.
Your first statement is nonsense. It isn't like a decade of medical training, years of residency, and years of professional experience just disappear when you retire. I haven't worked as a sys admin for over 30 years but I still know how to do it.

I don't see the relevancy of your second statement, since there's nothing wrong with being wrong. We're all wrong multiple times every day. That's just part of the human experience.
You were a system administrator in the early 90s? I've been involved in the IT field for 20 years and if it has been 30 years since you worked in it you don't know how to do it anymore. At all. Even a little. It changes every year. Within three years your skills are outdated and within five years are mostly irrelevant.

Same with being a doctor. Things change all the time.
Interesting take. Maybe you could give some examples of how much things like workstations, DNS, TCP/IP, VPNs, Unix, printers, firewalls, switches, cables, cooling, security, etc. have fundamentally morphed into something else. Then, go ahead and illustrate how much anatomy, physiology, cardiology, surgery, and especially the process of reading medical advice from government agencies has fundamentally changed, since that's what we're actually talking about here. Small things change, yes, but the foundations of both disciplines stay relatively the same and those with the experience and aptitude for it have a pretty easy time jumping in after years away.
I thought you might say that. Sure, mapping printers using IP addresses is the same and I'm sure a lot of Unix commands are the same, but almost nothing else is. 30 years ago people were still using NetWare to network and were programming with C and pascal. Now almost everything lives in the cloud, most programming is for the web and people use who knows what language to program--there's about fifty of them. And if you don't know how to use AWS then it's nearly impossible to be a high level system admin. Thirty years ago Cisco had been in business for eight years and Windows NT hadn't even been released. Nowadays, AI is an everyday part of life in many IT functions and it wasn't even a real thing back then.

I've been out of the IT world for eight years, but I stay tangentially involved through my day job at BYUI. I can tell you from my observations in working on IT classes that I would be lost, for the most part, just eight years later. Sure, it helps that I was in the field, and you sound like you were operating at a much higher level than I was in the IT field, so I have no doubt you would pick things up faster than I would, but I think it would be almost like starting over if I wanted to get back in and I can't imagine it would be too different for you.

In the medical field, over 1 million papers get published every year. Many of those aren't that important, but a large amount of them are. Since President Nelson last practiced in 1984 the amount of change is astounding. There are different protocols, robotic surgery, orthoscopic surgery, new medicine, and now mRNA therapy. When President Nelson finished his PhD program Rosamund Franklin and Crick and Watson were barely starting their seminal work on DNA and we know so much more about the inner workings of cells than 38 years ago I don't know where to begin.

Yes, things change quickly.
Last edited by Atrasado on November 25th, 2022, 10:19 am, edited 3 times in total.

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InfoWarrior82
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Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

innocentoldguy wrote: November 25th, 2022, 1:06 am
Atrasado wrote: November 22nd, 2022, 11:25 pm
innocentoldguy wrote: November 16th, 2022, 10:43 am
Mamabear wrote: November 15th, 2022, 2:33 pm

“President Nelson was talking as a medical professional, taking cues from the likes of the CDC, WHO, AMA, etc.“

When was the last time Nelson performed surgery? He hasn’t been a medical professional for many years and thus couldn’t speak as one. Even those who spoke as medical professionals were wrong.
Your first statement is nonsense. It isn't like a decade of medical training, years of residency, and years of professional experience just disappear when you retire. I haven't worked as a sys admin for over 30 years but I still know how to do it.

I don't see the relevancy of your second statement, since there's nothing wrong with being wrong. We're all wrong multiple times every day. That's just part of the human experience.
You were a system administrator in the early 90s? I've been involved in the IT field for 20 years and if it has been 30 years since you worked in it you don't know how to do it anymore. At all. Even a little. It changes every year. Within three years your skills are outdated and within five years are mostly irrelevant.

Same with being a doctor. Things change all the time.
Interesting take. Maybe you could give some examples of how much things like workstations, DNS, TCP/IP, VPNs, Unix, printers, firewalls, switches, cables, cooling, security, etc. have fundamentally morphed into something else. Then, go ahead and illustrate how much anatomy, physiology, cardiology, surgery, and especially the process of reading medical advice from government agencies has fundamentally changed, since that's what we're actually talking about here. Small things change, yes, but the foundations of both disciplines stay relatively the same and those with the experience and aptitude for it have a pretty easy time jumping in after years away.


Masks don't work against viruses. That's one thing that didn't change over time, and President Nelson knows this. Therefore, he is proven a liar. Is being proven a liar considered a "good fruit" of a true prophet of God? He does not prophesy. He does not see. He does not reveal. No words of Christ since the 1800's. Just joining with Babylon and Agenda 2030. Instructing apostles to carry out PR to mitigate "vaccine hesitancy". Supporting a federal gay marriage law that directly contradicts temple recommend question #7. All good fruits, eh?



15 ¶ Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good bfruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth devil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

innocentoldguy
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Posts: 261

Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by innocentoldguy »

Atrasado wrote: November 25th, 2022, 10:11 am
innocentoldguy wrote: November 25th, 2022, 1:06 am
Atrasado wrote: November 22nd, 2022, 11:25 pm
innocentoldguy wrote: November 16th, 2022, 10:43 am

Your first statement is nonsense. It isn't like a decade of medical training, years of residency, and years of professional experience just disappear when you retire. I haven't worked as a sys admin for over 30 years but I still know how to do it.

I don't see the relevancy of your second statement, since there's nothing wrong with being wrong. We're all wrong multiple times every day. That's just part of the human experience.
You were a system administrator in the early 90s? I've been involved in the IT field for 20 years and if it has been 30 years since you worked in it you don't know how to do it anymore. At all. Even a little. It changes every year. Within three years your skills are outdated and within five years are mostly irrelevant.

Same with being a doctor. Things change all the time.
Interesting take. Maybe you could give some examples of how much things like workstations, DNS, TCP/IP, VPNs, Unix, printers, firewalls, switches, cables, cooling, security, etc. have fundamentally morphed into something else. Then, go ahead and illustrate how much anatomy, physiology, cardiology, surgery, and especially the process of reading medical advice from government agencies has fundamentally changed, since that's what we're actually talking about here. Small things change, yes, but the foundations of both disciplines stay relatively the same and those with the experience and aptitude for it have a pretty easy time jumping in after years away.
I thought you might say that. Sure, mapping printers using IP addresses is the same and I'm sure a lot of Unix commands are the same, but almost nothing else is. 30 years ago people were still using NetWare to network and were programming with C and pascal. Now almost everything lives in the cloud, most programming is for the web and people use who knows what language to program--there's about fifty of them. And if you don't know how to use AWS then it's nearly impossible to be a high level system admin. Thirty years ago Cisco had been in business for eight years and Windows NT hadn't even been released. Nowadays, AI is an everyday part of life in many IT functions and it wasn't even a real thing back then.

I've been out of the IT world for eight years, but I stay tangentially involved through my day job at BYUI. I can tell you from my observations in working on IT classes that I would be lost, for the most part, just eight years later. Sure, it helps that I was in the field, and you sound like you were operating at a much higher level than I was in the IT field, so I have no doubt you would pick things up faster than I would, but I think it would be almost like starting over if I wanted to get back in and I can't imagine it would be too different for you.

In the medical field, over 1 million papers get published every year. Many of those aren't that important, but a large amount of them are. Since President Nelson last practiced in 1984 the amount of change is astounding. There are different protocols, robotic surgery, orthoscopic surgery, new medicine, and now mRNA therapy. When President Nelson finished his PhD program Rosamund Franklin and Crick and Watson were barely starting their seminal work on DNA and we know so much more about the inner workings of cells than 38 years ago I don't know where to begin.

Yes, things change quickly.
IP addresses are the same, TCP/IP has been around since the 70s, DNS has been around since the 80s, if you know how to write code in C, C++, Lisp, Python, and Pascal (all of which were around in the early 90s and all of which I've used professionally), you can easily figure out most other languages, the OSI model has morphed into the simpler "internet models" though it is still around too, SQL is pretty much the same, Normal Forms for relational data are still relatively the same, Unix has improved but isn't much different than it was in the 90s, web programming has become a lot MORE accessible than it was in the 90s, etc. We've gone from 16-bit CPUs to 64-bit multi-core CPUs, but the way you interact with registers, memory, etc. is still similar. Yes, things change on the surface, but the fundamentals are still pretty much the same, and if you understand them, picking up new information is easy.

If you'd like me to prove that professionals don't lose it all in 30 years, pick any popular, modern-day language that didn't exist in the early 90s (e.g., Elixir, Clojure, Crystal, etc.), pick a simple task you'd like me to do, like reading data from a public API (which wasn't a thing in the early 90s), and I'll post my code.

Also, this discussion is about the fundamentals of immunology, which haven't changed, and President Nelson's receiving and understanding information from the CDC, AMA, WHO, and other authoritative sources. The tech equivalent would be writing a "Hello, world!" program or pinging an IP address, wouldn't it? Have public statements by governmental or medical entities become indecipherable during the past 30 years? I have a friend in his mid 80s who still practices as a plastic surgeon https://fairbanksplasticsurgery.com and his take-aways regarding the China Virus vaccines are identical to President Nelson's, because that's the training they both received.

I'm not sure why this is such a point of contention. It seems pretty obvious and reasonable to me.

innocentoldguy
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Posts: 261

Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by innocentoldguy »

InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 25th, 2022, 10:14 am
innocentoldguy wrote: November 25th, 2022, 1:06 am
Atrasado wrote: November 22nd, 2022, 11:25 pm
innocentoldguy wrote: November 16th, 2022, 10:43 am

Your first statement is nonsense. It isn't like a decade of medical training, years of residency, and years of professional experience just disappear when you retire. I haven't worked as a sys admin for over 30 years but I still know how to do it.

I don't see the relevancy of your second statement, since there's nothing wrong with being wrong. We're all wrong multiple times every day. That's just part of the human experience.
You were a system administrator in the early 90s? I've been involved in the IT field for 20 years and if it has been 30 years since you worked in it you don't know how to do it anymore. At all. Even a little. It changes every year. Within three years your skills are outdated and within five years are mostly irrelevant.

Same with being a doctor. Things change all the time.
Interesting take. Maybe you could give some examples of how much things like workstations, DNS, TCP/IP, VPNs, Unix, printers, firewalls, switches, cables, cooling, security, etc. have fundamentally morphed into something else. Then, go ahead and illustrate how much anatomy, physiology, cardiology, surgery, and especially the process of reading medical advice from government agencies has fundamentally changed, since that's what we're actually talking about here. Small things change, yes, but the foundations of both disciplines stay relatively the same and those with the experience and aptitude for it have a pretty easy time jumping in after years away.


Masks don't work against viruses. That's one thing that didn't change over time, and President Nelson knows this. Therefore, he is proven a liar. Is being proven a liar considered a "good fruit" of a true prophet of God? He does not prophesy. He does not see. He does not reveal. No words of Christ since the 1800's. Just joining with Babylon and Agenda 2030. Instructing apostles to carry out PR to mitigate "vaccine hesitancy". Supporting a federal gay marriage law that directly contradicts temple recommend question #7. All good fruits, eh?



15 ¶ Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good bfruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth devil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Nope. Masks don't work. Says so right on the box. However, that wasn't the reason President Nelson gave for wearing masks, is it? I believe the phrase he said repeatedly was for us to be "good global citizens." I take his statements to be in line with the 12th Article of Faith. "We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law." In other words, we wore masks for the same reason we stopped practicing polygamy.

Also, from your quoted scripture, "Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire." It is the Lord who does that, not you. Your command from the Lord is to not judge others, since that's his job.

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by BeNotDeceived »

innocentoldguy wrote: November 27th, 2022, 8:07 pm
If you'd like me to prove that professionals don't lose it all in 30 years, pick any popular, modern-day language that didn't exist in the early 90s (e.g., Elixir, Clojure, Crystal, etc.), pick a simple task you'd like me to do, like reading data from a public API (which wasn't a thing in the early 90s), and I'll post my code.
Swift or SwiftUI and preserve a post on ldsff the moment it’s posted.

innocentoldguy
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Posts: 261

Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by innocentoldguy »

BeNotDeceived wrote: November 27th, 2022, 8:19 pm
innocentoldguy wrote: November 27th, 2022, 8:07 pm
If you'd like me to prove that professionals don't lose it all in 30 years, pick any popular, modern-day language that didn't exist in the early 90s (e.g., Elixir, Clojure, Crystal, etc.), pick a simple task you'd like me to do, like reading data from a public API (which wasn't a thing in the early 90s), and I'll post my code.
Swift or SwiftUI and preserve a post on ldsff the moment it’s posted.
I'd love to, but I don't have the required tools. Please pick a ubiquitous language that functions on all platforms.

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by BeNotDeceived »

innocentoldguy wrote: November 27th, 2022, 8:48 pm
BeNotDeceived wrote: November 27th, 2022, 8:19 pm
innocentoldguy wrote: November 27th, 2022, 8:07 pm
If you'd like me to prove that professionals don't lose it all in 30 years, pick any popular, modern-day language that didn't exist in the early 90s (e.g., Elixir, Clojure, Crystal, etc.), pick a simple task you'd like me to do, like reading data from a public API (which wasn't a thing in the early 90s), and I'll post my code.
Swift or SwiftUI and preserve a post on ldsff the moment it’s posted.
I'd love to, but I don't have the required tools. Please pick a ubiquitous language that functions on all platforms.
What works well to capture it and email the text?

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InfoWarrior82
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Location: "There are 15 on the earth today, you can trust them completely." -President Nelson (Jan 2022)

Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

innocentoldguy wrote: November 27th, 2022, 8:16 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 25th, 2022, 10:14 am
innocentoldguy wrote: November 25th, 2022, 1:06 am
Atrasado wrote: November 22nd, 2022, 11:25 pm
You were a system administrator in the early 90s? I've been involved in the IT field for 20 years and if it has been 30 years since you worked in it you don't know how to do it anymore. At all. Even a little. It changes every year. Within three years your skills are outdated and within five years are mostly irrelevant.

Same with being a doctor. Things change all the time.
Interesting take. Maybe you could give some examples of how much things like workstations, DNS, TCP/IP, VPNs, Unix, printers, firewalls, switches, cables, cooling, security, etc. have fundamentally morphed into something else. Then, go ahead and illustrate how much anatomy, physiology, cardiology, surgery, and especially the process of reading medical advice from government agencies has fundamentally changed, since that's what we're actually talking about here. Small things change, yes, but the foundations of both disciplines stay relatively the same and those with the experience and aptitude for it have a pretty easy time jumping in after years away.


Masks don't work against viruses. That's one thing that didn't change over time, and President Nelson knows this. Therefore, he is proven a liar. Is being proven a liar considered a "good fruit" of a true prophet of God? He does not prophesy. He does not see. He does not reveal. No words of Christ since the 1800's. Just joining with Babylon and Agenda 2030. Instructing apostles to carry out PR to mitigate "vaccine hesitancy". Supporting a federal gay marriage law that directly contradicts temple recommend question #7. All good fruits, eh?



15 ¶ Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good bfruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth devil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Nope. Masks don't work. Says so right on the box. However, that wasn't the reason President Nelson gave for wearing masks, is it? I believe the phrase he said repeatedly was for us to be "good global citizens." I take his statements to be in line with the 12th Article of Faith. "We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law." In other words, we wore masks for the same reason we stopped practicing polygamy.

Also, from your quoted scripture, "Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire." It is the Lord who does that, not you. Your command from the Lord is to not judge others, since that's his job.
So we participate in the satanic ritual because we don't want to be persecuted for standing up for truth? Interesting. What's being on the good side of the gadianton robbers going to get us? Genuinely curious. Also, what's the line for you? What if the law was that you had to sacrifice your first born son? Do we still have to be good global citizens? That article of faith does not include the entire context and you know that. (D&C 134) Stop being intellectually dishonest. We should only obey if those laws are righteous.


Furthermore, where was the mask law? I saw none. The church bent over backwards to institute masking even in local states and cities where the were no mask "guidance". They did it to please Satan.



https://www.latterdayconservative.com/f ... -of-faith/

Some Latter-day Saints take the 12th Article of Faith at face value without understanding the additional context provided in other scriptures and from statements of church leaders.

It’s not uncommon to hear this from a Latter-day Saint: “We are obeying _____ ordinance because it is the law and saints are required to sustain and uphold the law.”

It is important to consider a more complete context of LDS doctrine & teachings regarding obedience to law, lest we act in ignorance.

“And now, verily I say unto you concerning the laws of the land, it is my will that my people should observe to do all things whatsoever I command them. And that law of the land which is constitutional, supporting that principle of freedom in maintaining rights and privileges, belongs to all mankind, and is justifiable before me. Therefore, I, the Lord, justify you, and your brethren of my church, in befriending that law which is the constitutional law of the land; And as pertaining to law of man, whatsoever is more or less than this, cometh of evil.

“I, the Lord God, make you free, therefore ye are free indeed; and the law also maketh you free. Nevertheless, when the wicked rule the people mourn. Wherefore, honest men and wise men should be sought for diligently, and good men and wise men ye should observe to uphold; otherwise whatsoever is less than these cometh of evil. And I give unto you a commandment, that ye shall forsake all evil and cleave unto all good, that ye shall live by every word which proceedeth forth out of the mouth of God.” (D&C 98:4-11)

We are only required to obey that law which is constitutional and supports freedom. However, if we choose to disobey the dictates of evil men, we may also risk having to face the unjust punishment of man; nevertheless we would be justified before God in our actions.

“…it is my will that they should continue to importune for redress, and redemption, by the hands of those who are placed as rulers and are in authority over you — According to the laws and constitution of the people, which I have suffered to be established, and should be maintained for the rights and protection of all flesh, according to just and holy principles; That every man may act in doctrine and principle pertaining to futurity, according to the moral agency which I have given unto him, that every man may be accountable for his own sins in the day of judgment.

“Therefore, it is not right that any man should be in bondage one to another. And for this purpose have I established the Constitution of this land, by the hands of wise men whom I raised up unto this very purpose, and redeemed the land by the shedding of blood.” (D&C 101: 76-80)

Again we have more revelation from the Lord, to Joseph Smith, stating that though the wicked may rule it is our responsibility to stand up for our rights and for just and holy principles.

Consider these excerpts from Doctrine & Covenants section 134, which is a declaration of belief regarding governments and laws in general:

“We believe that governments were instituted of God for the benefit of man; and that he holds men accountable for their acts in relation to them…

“We believe that no government can exist in peace, except such laws are framed and held inviolate as will secure to each individual the free exercise of conscience, the right and control of property, and the protection of life.

“We believe that all men are bound to sustain and uphold the respective governments in which they reside, while protected in their inherent and inalienable rights by the laws of such governments; and that sedition and rebellion are unbecoming every citizen thus protected…”

Additionally, Joseph Smith made other statements regarding our duty to the law:

“The different states, and even Congress itself, have passed many laws diametrically contrary to the Constitution of the United States…

“Shall we be such fools as to be governed by its laws, which are unconstitutional? No! … The Constitution acknowledges that the people have all power not reserved to itself. … This is the doctrine of the Constitution, so help me God. The Constitution is not law to us, but it makes provision for us whereby we can make laws. Where it provides that no one shall be hindered from worshiping God according to his own conscience, is a law. No legislature can enact a law to prohibit it. The Constitution provides to regulate bodies of men and not individuals.” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 278)

It is quite clear that while we do believe in “obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law”, there is a requirement that those laws be just and do not infringe on the rights of the people. As Thomas Aquinas stated, “an unjust law is not really a law at all.”

The United States of America would not exist if the Founding Fathers believed, as many do today, in obeying the edicts of corrupt government officials.

Thomas Jefferson believed that “disobedience to tyrants is obedience to God” and he made it his personal seal. Virginia, home to a Bible believing society, with such men as George Washington and James Madison, had it as its official seal in 1776. Benjamin Franklin suggested it as the official motto of the United States.

In the Declaration of Independence we find this important directive:

“Whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends (defending the rights of the people), it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government.”

For a better understanding of why these concepts are important, consider the proper role of government:

“…the proper function of government is limited only to those spheres of activity within which the individual citizen has the right to act. By deriving its just powers from the governed, government becomes primarily a mechanism for defense against bodily harm, theft and involuntary servitude. It cannot claim the power to redistribute the wealth or force reluctant citizens to perform acts of charity against their will. Government is created by man. No man possesses such power to delegate. The creature cannot exceed the creator.

“In general terms, therefore, the proper role of government includes such defensive activities, as maintaining national military and local police forces for protection against loss of life, loss of property, and loss of liberty at the hands of either foreign despots or domestic criminals.” (Ezra Taft Benson, The Proper Role of Government)

John Taylor explained our obligation to the laws of man, and of God, as he spoke of celestial and terrestrial laws:

John Taylor“There are again celestial laws as before referred to, and terrestrial laws, and the question arises, what is the meaning of a celestial law; and what again is the meaning of a terrestrial law; a celestial law pertains to the law of heaven; and is a principle by which the intelligences in the celestial world are governed. The Gospel in its fulness places those who obey it, under its influences, while at the same time it does not relieve them from other obligations of a terrestrial nature.

“It is said in the Doctrine and Covenants, that he that keepeth the laws of God, hath no need to break the laws of the land. It is further explained in section 98, what is meant in relation to this. That all laws which are constitutional must be obeyed, as follows: ‘And now, verily I say unto you concerning the laws of the land, it is my will that my people should observe to do all things whatsoever I command them. And that the law of the land which is constitutional, supporting that principle of freedom in maintaining rights and privileges, belongs to all mankind, and is justifiable before me. Therefore, I, the Lord, justify you, and your brethren of the church, in befriending that law which is the constitutional law of the land; And as pertaining to law of man, whatsoever is more or less than this cometh of evil.’

“That is taking this nation as an example, all laws that are proper and correct, and all obligations entered into which are not violative of the constitution should be kept inviolate. But if they are violative of the constitution, then the compact between the rulers and the ruled is broken and the obligation ceases to be binding. Just as a person agreeing to purchase anything and to pay a certain amount for it, if he receives the article bargained for, and does not pay its price, he violates his contract; but if he does not receive the article he is not required to pay for it. Again we ask, what is this celestial law? The celestial law above referred to is absolute submission and obedience to the law of God. It is exemplified in the words of Jesus, who, when He came to introduce the Gospel said, ‘I came not to do my will but the will of the Father that sent me;’ and His mission was to do the will of the Father who sent him, or to fulfill a celestial law.”

(John Taylor, Remarks before the High Council of Salt Lake Stake of Zion, Feb 20, 1884. Journal of Discourse 26:350)

Ezra Taft Benson, in a talk titled “The Twelfth Article of Faith“, further expounded upon these concepts:

Ezra Taft Benson“In it is a declaration requiring obedience, loyalty to, and respect for duly constituted laws and the officials administering those laws. In justifying such loyal compliance, however, the Lord also promulgated certain safeguards and conditions which must be observed if freedom and liberty are to be preserved and enjoyed. These are emphasized primarily in the 98th and 134th sections of the Doctrine and Covenants. How I wish these fundamental concepts were emblazoned on the hearts of all our people!”

“We must be eternally vigilant as Latter-day Saints and inspire in the lives of our children a love for eternal principles and a desire to seek out honorable men—the best possible—to stand at the head of our political governments, local, state, and federal. Only in this way can we safeguard the liberties which have been vouchsafed to us as our inalienable rights. Unless we do so, we may very easily lose them because of our indifference, because of our failure to exercise our franchise, because we permit men who are unworthy to rise to positions of political power.”

(Ezra Taft Benson, The Twelfth Article of Faith. From God, Family, Country: Our Three Great Loyalties, 279. 1974.)

All this being said, we live in a wicked world full of tyrants, corrupt politicians, and oppressive laws. In all that we do we must consider the risks and use the Holy Spirit as our guide.

Joseph Smith“Our lives have already become jeopardized by revealing the wicked and bloodthirsty purposes of our enemies; and for the future we must cease to do so. All we have said about them is truth, but it is not always wise to relate all the truth. Even Jesus, the Son of God, had to refrain from doing so, and had to restrain His feelings many times for the safety of Himself and His followers, and had to conceal the righteous purposes of His heart in relation to many things pertaining to His Father’s kingdom. When still a boy He had all the intelligence necessary to enable Him to rule and govern the kingdom of the Jews, and could reason with the wisest and most profound doctors of law and divinity, and make their theories and practice to appear like folly compared with the wisdom He possessed; but He was a boy only, and lacked physical strength even to defend His own person; and was subject to cold, to hunger and to death. So it is with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints; we have the revelation of Jesus, and the knowledge within us is sufficient to organize a righteous government upon the earth, and to give universal peace to all mankind, if they would receive it, but we lack the physical strength, as did our Savior when a child, to defend our principles, and we have a necessity to be afflicted, persecuted and smitten, and to bear it patiently until Jacob is of age, then he will take care of himself.”

(Joseph Smith, Not Always Wise to Expose Evil. TPJS Section Six 1843-44, p.392 — June 27, 1844.)

While there are some threats to liberty that we must bear patiently, we do have a responsibility to do something. Ezra Taft Benson spoke about our immediate responsibility, regarding freedom, stating:

Ezra Taft Benson“We have been warned again and again and again. The Lord’s spokesman has consistently raised his voice of warning about the loss of our freedom. Now he that has ears, let him hear, and ye who praise the Lord, learn to also follow His spokesman.

“‘No greater immediate responsibility rests upon the members of the church, upon all citizens of this republic and of neighboring republics than to protect the freedom vouchsafe by the Constitution of the United States.’

“In this mighty struggle each of you has a part. Be on the right side. Stand up and be counted.”

(Ezra Taft Benson. Our Immediate Responsibility. BYU University. October 25, 1966.)

Bonus:

https://journalofdiscourses.com/23/8
Last edited by InfoWarrior82 on November 27th, 2022, 9:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Atrasado
captain of 100
Posts: 435

Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by Atrasado »

innocentoldguy wrote: November 27th, 2022, 8:07 pm
Atrasado wrote: November 25th, 2022, 10:11 am
innocentoldguy wrote: November 25th, 2022, 1:06 am
Atrasado wrote: November 22nd, 2022, 11:25 pm
You were a system administrator in the early 90s? I've been involved in the IT field for 20 years and if it has been 30 years since you worked in it you don't know how to do it anymore. At all. Even a little. It changes every year. Within three years your skills are outdated and within five years are mostly irrelevant.

Same with being a doctor. Things change all the time.
Interesting take. Maybe you could give some examples of how much things like workstations, DNS, TCP/IP, VPNs, Unix, printers, firewalls, switches, cables, cooling, security, etc. have fundamentally morphed into something else. Then, go ahead and illustrate how much anatomy, physiology, cardiology, surgery, and especially the process of reading medical advice from government agencies has fundamentally changed, since that's what we're actually talking about here. Small things change, yes, but the foundations of both disciplines stay relatively the same and those with the experience and aptitude for it have a pretty easy time jumping in after years away.
I thought you might say that. Sure, mapping printers using IP addresses is the same and I'm sure a lot of Unix commands are the same, but almost nothing else is. 30 years ago people were still using NetWare to network and were programming with C and pascal. Now almost everything lives in the cloud, most programming is for the web and people use who knows what language to program--there's about fifty of them. And if you don't know how to use AWS then it's nearly impossible to be a high level system admin. Thirty years ago Cisco had been in business for eight years and Windows NT hadn't even been released. Nowadays, AI is an everyday part of life in many IT functions and it wasn't even a real thing back then.

I've been out of the IT world for eight years, but I stay tangentially involved through my day job at BYUI. I can tell you from my observations in working on IT classes that I would be lost, for the most part, just eight years later. Sure, it helps that I was in the field, and you sound like you were operating at a much higher level than I was in the IT field, so I have no doubt you would pick things up faster than I would, but I think it would be almost like starting over if I wanted to get back in and I can't imagine it would be too different for you.

In the medical field, over 1 million papers get published every year. Many of those aren't that important, but a large amount of them are. Since President Nelson last practiced in 1984 the amount of change is astounding. There are different protocols, robotic surgery, orthoscopic surgery, new medicine, and now mRNA therapy. When President Nelson finished his PhD program Rosamund Franklin and Crick and Watson were barely starting their seminal work on DNA and we know so much more about the inner workings of cells than 38 years ago I don't know where to begin.

Yes, things change quickly.
IP addresses are the same, TCP/IP has been around since the 70s, DNS has been around since the 80s, if you know how to write code in C, C++, Lisp, Python, and Pascal (all of which were around in the early 90s and all of which I've used professionally), you can easily figure out most other languages, the OSI model has morphed into the simpler "internet models" though it is still around too, SQL is pretty much the same, Normal Forms for relational data are still relatively the same, Unix has improved but isn't much different than it was in the 90s, web programming has become a lot MORE accessible than it was in the 90s, etc. We've gone from 16-bit CPUs to 64-bit multi-core CPUs, but the way you interact with registers, memory, etc. is still similar. Yes, things change on the surface, but the fundamentals are still pretty much the same, and if you understand them, picking up new information is easy.

If you'd like me to prove that professionals don't lose it all in 30 years, pick any popular, modern-day language that didn't exist in the early 90s (e.g., Elixir, Clojure, Crystal, etc.), pick a simple task you'd like me to do, like reading data from a public API (which wasn't a thing in the early 90s), and I'll post my code.

Also, this discussion is about the fundamentals of immunology, which haven't changed, and President Nelson's receiving and understanding information from the CDC, AMA, WHO, and other authoritative sources. The tech equivalent would be writing a "Hello, world!" program or pinging an IP address, wouldn't it? Have public statements by governmental or medical entities become indecipherable during the past 30 years? I have a friend in his mid 80s who still practices as a plastic surgeon https://fairbanksplasticsurgery.com and his take-aways regarding the China Virus vaccines are identical to President Nelson's, because that's the training they both received.

I'm not sure why this is such a point of contention. It seems pretty obvious and reasonable to me.
Ok, maybe you're the kind of guy who can jump back in without missing a beat. I guarantee you that most people aren't like that. I still think you significantly underestimate how hard it would be to do.

Immunology hasn't significantly changed in the last 38 years? Maybe at a high school level. Beyond that it has. The abstract from a 2021 Nature (the top biology journal) article reviewing recent immunology advances states,
The knowledge of human immunology has improved exponentially in recent years, and more advances in the near future are certainly imminent. The immune system is extremely complex, but we are now developing new tools and skills to study it. Several factors have been involved in these advancements, and the most important ones include the development of thousands of different monoclonal antibodies that allow the identification of a large variety of cell subpopulations and the functional analysis of immune cells. These tools, together with new and sophisticated technologies, such as single-cell analysis, imaging techniques, omics (including massive DNA-RNA sequencing, proteomics, and metabolomics data and new tools for processing these data, such as artificial intelligence and machine learning approaches, mathematical modeling, etc.), newly designed animal models (using conventional transgenic/knockout/knock-in mice or new technologies such as CRISPR-Cas9 (clustered regularly interspaced short palindromic repeats–CRISPR-associated protein 9), are increasing our knowledge about how our immune system functions. The study of the interaction between the immune system and other systems, such as the nervous and endocrine systems or the microbiome, in several illnesses has produced interesting results with important clinical applications.
That sounds like some things have really changed.

I'm sure that President Nelson knows more about the body than I do, but I don't think he's an expert on mRNA vaccines since none were in existence when he was practicing. I also don't think he knows what the vaccines are made of since the ingredient inserts are blank. I doubt if he knows as much about the catastrophic side effects of these vaccines as many of this forums' participants since the main stream refuses to cover them, for the most part. (If he does then he's truly a wicked man.)

In any case, I'm not sure any of this really applies to my original question. Which was, how could a just God condemn someone for rejecting the current general Church leadership when that is exactly what He told us to do? I don't know nearly everything so I might be missing something, but so far no one has told me what. Any ideas?
Last edited by Atrasado on November 28th, 2022, 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

Atrasado
captain of 100
Posts: 435

Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by Atrasado »

innocentoldguy wrote: November 27th, 2022, 8:48 pm
BeNotDeceived wrote: November 27th, 2022, 8:19 pm
innocentoldguy wrote: November 27th, 2022, 8:07 pm
If you'd like me to prove that professionals don't lose it all in 30 years, pick any popular, modern-day language that didn't exist in the early 90s (e.g., Elixir, Clojure, Crystal, etc.), pick a simple task you'd like me to do, like reading data from a public API (which wasn't a thing in the early 90s), and I'll post my code.
Swift or SwiftUI and preserve a post on ldsff the moment it’s posted.
I'd love to, but I don't have the required tools. Please pick a ubiquitous language that functions on all platforms.
Swift works on Windows and Linux. It's a little trickier on Windows but we got it to work just fine on student machines this semester.
Last edited by Atrasado on November 28th, 2022, 7:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

endlessismyname
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2100

Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by endlessismyname »

innocentoldguy wrote: November 25th, 2022, 1:06 am
Atrasado wrote: November 22nd, 2022, 11:25 pm
innocentoldguy wrote: November 16th, 2022, 10:43 am
Mamabear wrote: November 15th, 2022, 2:33 pm

“President Nelson was talking as a medical professional, taking cues from the likes of the CDC, WHO, AMA, etc.“

When was the last time Nelson performed surgery? He hasn’t been a medical professional for many years and thus couldn’t speak as one. Even those who spoke as medical professionals were wrong.
Your first statement is nonsense. It isn't like a decade of medical training, years of residency, and years of professional experience just disappear when you retire. I haven't worked as a sys admin for over 30 years but I still know how to do it.

I don't see the relevancy of your second statement, since there's nothing wrong with being wrong. We're all wrong multiple times every day. That's just part of the human experience.
You were a system administrator in the early 90s? I've been involved in the IT field for 20 years and if it has been 30 years since you worked in it you don't know how to do it anymore. At all. Even a little. It changes every year. Within three years your skills are outdated and within five years are mostly irrelevant.

Same with being a doctor. Things change all the time.
Interesting take. Maybe you could give some examples of how much things like workstations, DNS, TCP/IP, VPNs, Unix, printers, firewalls, switches, cables, cooling, security, etc. have fundamentally morphed into something else. Then, go ahead and illustrate how much anatomy, physiology, cardiology, surgery, and especially the process of reading medical advice from government agencies has fundamentally changed, since that's what we're actually talking about here. Small things change, yes, but the foundations of both disciplines stay relatively the same and those with the experience and aptitude for it have a pretty easy time jumping in after years away.
“especially the process of reading medical advice from government agencies”

Dude is right. We all should be taking our medical advice from government agencies. We should be puffing on those cigarettes, using that asbestos, soaking our crops in pesticides, etc, etc. They’ve got a fantastic track record, so especially as a prophet, you definitely want to take your advice from those sources.

Where’d I put those sarcasm tags? I know they’re around here somewhere.

innocentoldguy
captain of 100
Posts: 261

Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by innocentoldguy »

innocentoldguy wrote: November 27th, 2022, 8:48 pm
BeNotDeceived wrote: November 27th, 2022, 8:19 pm
innocentoldguy wrote: November 27th, 2022, 8:07 pm
If you'd like me to prove that professionals don't lose it all in 30 years, pick any popular, modern-day language that didn't exist in the early 90s (e.g., Elixir, Clojure, Crystal, etc.), pick a simple task you'd like me to do, like reading data from a public API (which wasn't a thing in the early 90s), and I'll post my code.
Swift or SwiftUI and preserve a post on ldsff the moment it’s posted.
I'd love to, but I don't have the required tools. Please pick a ubiquitous language that functions on all platforms.
Since you haven't yet picked another open-source language that runs on FreeBSD, here's some Swift code to pull planetary API data from the Star Wars API. I can't debug it or verify it works because I don't have access to an Apple development environment at the moment, but it should be right, according to Apple's documentation. Also, based on the documentation, I believe the call to

Code: Select all

URLSession.shared.dataTask
is asynchronous and runs in a separate thread. That being the case, I'm assuming my print statements within that call may not print to the console, since they're running in a separate thread. At least that is the case with other languages. Maybe Swift handles that differently though. I don't know.

Enjoy.

Code: Select all

import Foundation

fetchPlanet(from: "https://swapi.dev/api/planets/1/")

// This struct holds the response code and the results.
struct Response: Codable {
    let results: SWResult
    let status: String
}

// This struct holds the top-level values of the returned JSON data because I'm lazy and don't
// care to make this code any larger or complex.
struct SWResult: Codable {
    let name: String
    let rotation_period: String
    let orbital_period: String
    let diameter: String
    let climate: String
    let gravity: String
    let terrain: String
    let surface_water: String
    let population: String
}

func fetchPlanet(from url: String) {
    URLSession.shared.dataTask(with: URL(string: url)!, completionHandler: {
        data,
        response,
        error in
        
        // Guard: Print an error message and return if the guard doesn't pass.
        guard let data = data, error == nil else {
            print("Request failed.")
            return
        }
        
        // Save the variable "result" to mutate after the API call is made.
        // Catch any exceptions during the decoding process.
        var result: Response?
        do {
            result = try JSONDecoder().decode(Response.self, from: data)
        }
        catch {
            print("Failed to decode JSON \(error.localizedDescription)")
        }
        
        // Guard: Unpack the results.
        guard let json = result else {
            return
        }
        
        // Print out the HTTP status code and the name and population of the planet.
        print(json.status)
        print(json.results.name)
        print(json.results.population)
    }).resume()
    
    print("Finished pulling data from \(url)")
}

innocentoldguy
captain of 100
Posts: 261

Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by innocentoldguy »

endlessismyname wrote: November 27th, 2022, 9:50 pm
innocentoldguy wrote: November 25th, 2022, 1:06 am
Atrasado wrote: November 22nd, 2022, 11:25 pm
innocentoldguy wrote: November 16th, 2022, 10:43 am

Your first statement is nonsense. It isn't like a decade of medical training, years of residency, and years of professional experience just disappear when you retire. I haven't worked as a sys admin for over 30 years but I still know how to do it.

I don't see the relevancy of your second statement, since there's nothing wrong with being wrong. We're all wrong multiple times every day. That's just part of the human experience.
You were a system administrator in the early 90s? I've been involved in the IT field for 20 years and if it has been 30 years since you worked in it you don't know how to do it anymore. At all. Even a little. It changes every year. Within three years your skills are outdated and within five years are mostly irrelevant.

Same with being a doctor. Things change all the time.
Interesting take. Maybe you could give some examples of how much things like workstations, DNS, TCP/IP, VPNs, Unix, printers, firewalls, switches, cables, cooling, security, etc. have fundamentally morphed into something else. Then, go ahead and illustrate how much anatomy, physiology, cardiology, surgery, and especially the process of reading medical advice from government agencies has fundamentally changed, since that's what we're actually talking about here. Small things change, yes, but the foundations of both disciplines stay relatively the same and those with the experience and aptitude for it have a pretty easy time jumping in after years away.
“especially the process of reading medical advice from government agencies”

Dude is right. We all should be taking our medical advice from government agencies. We should be puffing on those cigarettes, using that asbestos, soaking our crops in pesticides, etc, etc. They’ve got a fantastic track record, so especially as a prophet, you definitely want to take your advice from those sources.

Where’d I put those sarcasm tags? I know they’re around here somewhere.
Just so you understand, doctors don't pull medical advice out of their nearest crevice. They get it from their schooling, internships, residencies, and professional experience; ALL of which are heavily influenced by government agencies, hospital policies, and medical licensing boards. Doctors who go against these entities can quickly lose their hospital privileges, board certifications, or medical licenses (sometimes all three). They also leave themselves wide open to malpractice lawsuits.

As humorous as I find puerile mockery in an arm-flailing attempt to win a argument, it never wins a debate.

Where'd I put those rolling eyes? I know they're around here somewhere.

endlessismyname
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2100

Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by endlessismyname »

innocentoldguy wrote: November 27th, 2022, 11:13 pm
endlessismyname wrote: November 27th, 2022, 9:50 pm
innocentoldguy wrote: November 25th, 2022, 1:06 am
Atrasado wrote: November 22nd, 2022, 11:25 pm
You were a system administrator in the early 90s? I've been involved in the IT field for 20 years and if it has been 30 years since you worked in it you don't know how to do it anymore. At all. Even a little. It changes every year. Within three years your skills are outdated and within five years are mostly irrelevant.

Same with being a doctor. Things change all the time.
Interesting take. Maybe you could give some examples of how much things like workstations, DNS, TCP/IP, VPNs, Unix, printers, firewalls, switches, cables, cooling, security, etc. have fundamentally morphed into something else. Then, go ahead and illustrate how much anatomy, physiology, cardiology, surgery, and especially the process of reading medical advice from government agencies has fundamentally changed, since that's what we're actually talking about here. Small things change, yes, but the foundations of both disciplines stay relatively the same and those with the experience and aptitude for it have a pretty easy time jumping in after years away.
“especially the process of reading medical advice from government agencies”

Dude is right. We all should be taking our medical advice from government agencies. We should be puffing on those cigarettes, using that asbestos, soaking our crops in pesticides, etc, etc. They’ve got a fantastic track record, so especially as a prophet, you definitely want to take your advice from those sources.

Where’d I put those sarcasm tags? I know they’re around here somewhere.
What an ignorant comment. Just so you understand, doctors don't pull medical advice out of their nearest crevice. They get it from their schooling, internships, residencies, and professional experience; ALL of which are heavily influenced by government agencies, hospital policies, and medical licensing boards. Doctors who go against these entities can quickly lose their hospital privileges, board certifications, or medical licenses (sometimes all three). They also leave themselves wide open to malpractice lawsuits.

As humorous as I find puerile mockery in an arm-flailing attempt to win a argument, it never wins a debate.

Where'd I put those rolling eyes? I know they're around here somewhere.
Doctors have a TERRIBLE track record of honoring their oath.

That’s just a fact.

Their “practicing” on us is one of the leading causes of human mortality… and that’s just the ones they count.

Also a fact.

You enjoy relying on the government and other authority figures? Makes you feel warm and cuddly?

It’s your life. No one here will try to stop you.

So why do you feel compelled to try to stop us from living as we please, and to convince us to follow your illogical, irrational, unreasonable advice?



Enjoy

innocentoldguy
captain of 100
Posts: 261

Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by innocentoldguy »

endlessismyname wrote: November 28th, 2022, 7:14 am
innocentoldguy wrote: November 27th, 2022, 11:13 pm
endlessismyname wrote: November 27th, 2022, 9:50 pm
innocentoldguy wrote: November 25th, 2022, 1:06 am

Interesting take. Maybe you could give some examples of how much things like workstations, DNS, TCP/IP, VPNs, Unix, printers, firewalls, switches, cables, cooling, security, etc. have fundamentally morphed into something else. Then, go ahead and illustrate how much anatomy, physiology, cardiology, surgery, and especially the process of reading medical advice from government agencies has fundamentally changed, since that's what we're actually talking about here. Small things change, yes, but the foundations of both disciplines stay relatively the same and those with the experience and aptitude for it have a pretty easy time jumping in after years away.
“especially the process of reading medical advice from government agencies”

Dude is right. We all should be taking our medical advice from government agencies. We should be puffing on those cigarettes, using that asbestos, soaking our crops in pesticides, etc, etc. They’ve got a fantastic track record, so especially as a prophet, you definitely want to take your advice from those sources.

Where’d I put those sarcasm tags? I know they’re around here somewhere.
What an ignorant comment. Just so you understand, doctors don't pull medical advice out of their nearest crevice. They get it from their schooling, internships, residencies, and professional experience; ALL of which are heavily influenced by government agencies, hospital policies, and medical licensing boards. Doctors who go against these entities can quickly lose their hospital privileges, board certifications, or medical licenses (sometimes all three). They also leave themselves wide open to malpractice lawsuits.

As humorous as I find puerile mockery in an arm-flailing attempt to win a argument, it never wins a debate.

Where'd I put those rolling eyes? I know they're around here somewhere.
Doctors have a TERRIBLE track record of honoring their oath.
There are examples of doctors not honoring their oath, sure. Typically, they get sued and often they lose their medical licenses or have them severely limited (e.g., no longer have the right to perform surgeries). This isn't a ubiquitous problem though.
That’s just a fact.
It's really not.
Their “practicing” on us is one of the leading causes of human mortality… and that’s just the ones they count.
It doesn't even make the top 10, which are: heart disease, cancer, personal accidents, respiratory diseases, strokes, Alzheimer's, diabetes, pneumonia, kidney disease, suicide, in that order.
Also a fact.
It's really not.
You enjoy relying on the government and other authority figures? Makes you feel warm and cuddly?
Did I say that? I remember saying that doctors are bound by hospital policies, government agencies, and medical licensure boards. Nice straw man though.
It’s your life. No one here will try to stop you.

So why do you feel compelled to try to stop us from living as we please, and to convince us to follow your illogical, irrational, unreasonable advice?
What advice? I just told you how the medical world works. You can whine about it all you like, but it won't alter the facts one iota.

User avatar
HereWeGo
captain of 100
Posts: 469

Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by HereWeGo »

Just curious, OldGuy. What are some of the earlier identities that you have posted under?

endlessismyname
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2100

Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by endlessismyname »

innocentoldguy wrote: November 28th, 2022, 12:30 pm
endlessismyname wrote: November 28th, 2022, 7:14 am
innocentoldguy wrote: November 27th, 2022, 11:13 pm
endlessismyname wrote: November 27th, 2022, 9:50 pm

“especially the process of reading medical advice from government agencies”

Dude is right. We all should be taking our medical advice from government agencies. We should be puffing on those cigarettes, using that asbestos, soaking our crops in pesticides, etc, etc. They’ve got a fantastic track record, so especially as a prophet, you definitely want to take your advice from those sources.

Where’d I put those sarcasm tags? I know they’re around here somewhere.
What an ignorant comment. Just so you understand, doctors don't pull medical advice out of their nearest crevice. They get it from their schooling, internships, residencies, and professional experience; ALL of which are heavily influenced by government agencies, hospital policies, and medical licensing boards. Doctors who go against these entities can quickly lose their hospital privileges, board certifications, or medical licenses (sometimes all three). They also leave themselves wide open to malpractice lawsuits.

As humorous as I find puerile mockery in an arm-flailing attempt to win a argument, it never wins a debate.

Where'd I put those rolling eyes? I know they're around here somewhere.
Doctors have a TERRIBLE track record of honoring their oath.
There are examples of doctors not honoring their oath, sure. Typically, they get sued and often they lose their medical licenses or have them severely limited (e.g., no longer have the right to perform surgeries). This isn't a ubiquitous problem though.
That’s just a fact.
It's really not.
Their “practicing” on us is one of the leading causes of human mortality… and that’s just the ones they count.
It doesn't even make the top 10, which are: heart disease, cancer, personal accidents, respiratory diseases, strokes, Alzheimer's, diabetes, pneumonia, kidney disease, suicide, in that order.
Also a fact.
It's really not.
You enjoy relying on the government and other authority figures? Makes you feel warm and cuddly?
Did I say that? I remember saying that doctors are bound by hospital policies, government agencies, and medical licensure boards. Nice straw man though.
It’s your life. No one here will try to stop you.

So why do you feel compelled to try to stop us from living as we please, and to convince us to follow your illogical, irrational, unreasonable advice?
What advice? I just told you how the medical world works. You can whine about it all you like, but it won't alter the facts one iota.
“Over 250,000 people in the U.S. die each year because of medical errors, making it the third leading cause of death in this country behind heart disease and cancer, according to a Johns Hopkins study.”

Annnnd… on to the foes list you go.

innocentoldguy
captain of 100
Posts: 261

Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by innocentoldguy »

endlessismyname wrote: November 28th, 2022, 2:28 pm
innocentoldguy wrote: November 28th, 2022, 12:30 pm
endlessismyname wrote: November 28th, 2022, 7:14 am
innocentoldguy wrote: November 27th, 2022, 11:13 pm

What an ignorant comment. Just so you understand, doctors don't pull medical advice out of their nearest crevice. They get it from their schooling, internships, residencies, and professional experience; ALL of which are heavily influenced by government agencies, hospital policies, and medical licensing boards. Doctors who go against these entities can quickly lose their hospital privileges, board certifications, or medical licenses (sometimes all three). They also leave themselves wide open to malpractice lawsuits.

As humorous as I find puerile mockery in an arm-flailing attempt to win a argument, it never wins a debate.

Where'd I put those rolling eyes? I know they're around here somewhere.
Doctors have a TERRIBLE track record of honoring their oath.
There are examples of doctors not honoring their oath, sure. Typically, they get sued and often they lose their medical licenses or have them severely limited (e.g., no longer have the right to perform surgeries). This isn't a ubiquitous problem though.
That’s just a fact.
It's really not.
Their “practicing” on us is one of the leading causes of human mortality… and that’s just the ones they count.
It doesn't even make the top 10, which are: heart disease, cancer, personal accidents, respiratory diseases, strokes, Alzheimer's, diabetes, pneumonia, kidney disease, suicide, in that order.
Also a fact.
It's really not.
You enjoy relying on the government and other authority figures? Makes you feel warm and cuddly?
Did I say that? I remember saying that doctors are bound by hospital policies, government agencies, and medical licensure boards. Nice straw man though.
It’s your life. No one here will try to stop you.

So why do you feel compelled to try to stop us from living as we please, and to convince us to follow your illogical, irrational, unreasonable advice?
What advice? I just told you how the medical world works. You can whine about it all you like, but it won't alter the facts one iota.
“Over 250,000 people in the U.S. die each year because of medical errors, making it the third leading cause of death in this country behind heart disease and cancer, according to a Johns Hopkins study.”

Annnnd… on to the foes list you go.
The CDC says otherwise. What can you do?

Lizzy60
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 7594

Re: Prophets Taking the Lord's Name in Vain

Post by Lizzy60 »

innocentoldguy wrote: November 28th, 2022, 2:38 pm
endlessismyname wrote: November 28th, 2022, 2:28 pm
innocentoldguy wrote: November 28th, 2022, 12:30 pm
endlessismyname wrote: November 28th, 2022, 7:14 am

Doctors have a TERRIBLE track record of honoring their oath.
There are examples of doctors not honoring their oath, sure. Typically, they get sued and often they lose their medical licenses or have them severely limited (e.g., no longer have the right to perform surgeries). This isn't a ubiquitous problem though.
That’s just a fact.
It's really not.
Their “practicing” on us is one of the leading causes of human mortality… and that’s just the ones they count.
It doesn't even make the top 10, which are: heart disease, cancer, personal accidents, respiratory diseases, strokes, Alzheimer's, diabetes, pneumonia, kidney disease, suicide, in that order.
Also a fact.
It's really not.
You enjoy relying on the government and other authority figures? Makes you feel warm and cuddly?
Did I say that? I remember saying that doctors are bound by hospital policies, government agencies, and medical licensure boards. Nice straw man though.
It’s your life. No one here will try to stop you.

So why do you feel compelled to try to stop us from living as we please, and to convince us to follow your illogical, irrational, unreasonable advice?
What advice? I just told you how the medical world works. You can whine about it all you like, but it won't alter the facts one iota.
“Over 250,000 people in the U.S. die each year because of medical errors, making it the third leading cause of death in this country behind heart disease and cancer, according to a Johns Hopkins study.”

Annnnd… on to the foes list you go.
The CDC says otherwise. What can you do?
No intelligent person, meaning anyone with an IQ over 80, believes anything the CDC says at this point. The lies they have told us over the past few years are numerous, blatant, and dangerous.

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