First Presidency Issues Statement on Secret Societies

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endlessismyname
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First Presidency Issues Statement on Secret Societies

Post by endlessismyname »

In 1901, the following circular letter from President Lorenzo Snow and his First Counselor Joseph F. Smith to all Stake Presidencies concerning Church members' desires to join "secret orders":

DEAR BRETHREN:

The following question has recently been asked us by one of our Stake Presidencies:

How strict shall we be with young men who wish to go to the temple who have united themselves with secret orders?

That our views might be known and acted upon by Presidents of Stakes generally, we send you herewith a copy of the same, as follows:

"The counsel of the First Presidency in all such cases has been against our brethren joining secret organizations, and where any of them have already done so their counsel to them is to withdraw themselves from such organizations as soon as circumstances permit and wisdom dictate.

"It is true that many of our people have been led to join some of these societies on the ground that their aims and objects are purely charitable and social in their character, and besides, inducements are held out of procuring life insurance at greatly reduced rates. But however worthy their aims and objects may be, this fact remains: They are outside the pale of the church and kingdom of God, and brethren in allying themselves with them divide their allegiance with organizations that are man-made, and which have not been devised of the Lord for the building up of Zion; and in doing this they render themselves liable to have their feelings alienated, in whole or in part, from the church which requires their all. We may say on this point, that it is the testimony of brethren who have joined organizations of this character and severed their connections with them, that their tendency is to draw away from the church; and it may be said and expected, without question, if the lines were sharply drawn between Mormon and non-Mormon, that all such organizations would be found in e ranks of our enemies, on the principle set forth in the saying of our Savior, "Those who are not for us are against us."

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HVDC
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Re: First Presidency Issues Statement on Secret Societies

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endlessismyname wrote: November 24th, 2022, 8:03 pm In 1901, the following circular letter from President Lorenzo Snow and his First Counselor Joseph F. Smith to all Stake Presidencies concerning Church members' desires to join "secret orders":

DEAR BRETHREN:

The following question has recently been asked us by one of our Stake Presidencies:

How strict shall we be with young men who wish to go to the temple who have united themselves with secret orders?

That our views might be known and acted upon by Presidents of Stakes generally, we send you herewith a copy of the same, as follows:

"The counsel of the First Presidency in all such cases has been against our brethren joining secret organizations, and where any of them have already done so their counsel to them is to withdraw themselves from such organizations as soon as circumstances permit and wisdom dictate.

"It is true that many of our people have been led to join some of these societies on the ground that their aims and objects are purely charitable and social in their character, and besides, inducements are held out of procuring life insurance at greatly reduced rates. But however worthy their aims and objects may be, this fact remains: They are outside the pale of the church and kingdom of God, and brethren in allying themselves with them divide their allegiance with organizations that are man-made, and which have not been devised of the Lord for the building up of Zion; and in doing this they render themselves liable to have their feelings alienated, in whole or in part, from the church which requires their all. We may say on this point, that it is the testimony of brethren who have joined organizations of this character and severed their connections with them, that their tendency is to draw away from the church; and it may be said and expected, without question, if the lines were sharply drawn between Mormon and non-Mormon, that all such organizations would be found in e ranks of our enemies, on the principle set forth in the saying of our Savior, "Those who are not for us are against us."
That kind of talk hurts our ears.

Look at all the good we are doing.

Those old guys didn't know how good such membership was.

Otherwise they would have joined too.

Study only CFM, conference talks and church publications.

Contained therein is all you need to know.

Hold fast to the Iron Rod.

The living prophet.

He/Her/Whatever.

Namaste.

Sir H

Joan7
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Re: First Presidency Issues Statement on Secret Societies

Post by Joan7 »

endlessismyname wrote: November 24th, 2022, 8:03 pm In 1901, the following circular letter from President Lorenzo Snow and his First Counselor Joseph F. Smith to all Stake Presidencies concerning Church members' desires to join "secret orders":

DEAR BRETHREN:

The following question has recently been asked us by one of our Stake Presidencies:

How strict shall we be with young men who wish to go to the temple who have united themselves with secret orders?

That our views might be known and acted upon by Presidents of Stakes generally, we send you herewith a copy of the same, as follows:

"The counsel of the First Presidency in all such cases has been against our brethren joining secret organizations, and where any of them have already done so their counsel to them is to withdraw themselves from such organizations as soon as circumstances permit and wisdom dictate.

"It is true that many of our people have been led to join some of these societies on the ground that their aims and objects are purely charitable and social in their character, and besides, inducements are held out of procuring life insurance at greatly reduced rates. But however worthy their aims and objects may be, this fact remains: They are outside the pale of the church and kingdom of God, and brethren in allying themselves with them divide their allegiance with organizations that are man-made, and which have not been devised of the Lord for the building up of Zion; and in doing this they render themselves liable to have their feelings alienated, in whole or in part, from the church which requires their all. We may say on this point, that it is the testimony of brethren who have joined organizations of this character and severed their connections with them, that their tendency is to draw away from the church; and it may be said and expected, without question, if the lines were sharply drawn between Mormon and non-Mormon, that all such organizations would be found in e ranks of our enemies, on the principle set forth in the saying of our Savior, "Those who are not for us are against us."
I am so glad you brought this statement to my attention! It is particularly interesting that it was issued by Lorenzo Snow AND Joseph F Smith. Joseph F Smith was 2nd Counselor to Wilford Woodruff in 1895. Brigham took the 1st counselor, George Q Cannon, and set off for a San Francisco event at the Bohemian Grove Society. That is a secret society. It was there that Woodruff died.

If Joseph F Smith learned that the secret societies were evil, and joined in the Church pronouncement against it, why didn't he at this particular time, repent of the wayward path marked by the former leaders in becoming involved in a secret society? Is there unrepented sin in the annals of church history?

But, it goes much further than that. Brigham and his crew, were so all fired up to build the Masonic Hall in Nauvoo, they neglected building the temple, and never finished it. Joseph knew that was a mistake, and warned the people to help build the temple. Joseph Smith was not a Mason. But most of the apostles were. I think the connections with that secret society were the path that has led to where we are today. It is not pretty.

I am especially unhappy to see the hypocritical nature of this announcement to the general membership. When did the leaders swear off being Masons?
Last edited by Joan7 on November 25th, 2022, 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

endlessismyname
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Re: First Presidency Issues Statement on Secret Societies

Post by endlessismyname »

Joan7 wrote: November 24th, 2022, 8:27 pm
endlessismyname wrote: November 24th, 2022, 8:03 pm In 1901, the following circular letter from President Lorenzo Snow and his First Counselor Joseph F. Smith to all Stake Presidencies concerning Church members' desires to join "secret orders":

DEAR BRETHREN:

The following question has recently been asked us by one of our Stake Presidencies:

How strict shall we be with young men who wish to go to the temple who have united themselves with secret orders?

That our views might be known and acted upon by Presidents of Stakes generally, we send you herewith a copy of the same, as follows:

"The counsel of the First Presidency in all such cases has been against our brethren joining secret organizations, and where any of them have already done so their counsel to them is to withdraw themselves from such organizations as soon as circumstances permit and wisdom dictate.

"It is true that many of our people have been led to join some of these societies on the ground that their aims and objects are purely charitable and social in their character, and besides, inducements are held out of procuring life insurance at greatly reduced rates. But however worthy their aims and objects may be, this fact remains: They are outside the pale of the church and kingdom of God, and brethren in allying themselves with them divide their allegiance with organizations that are man-made, and which have not been devised of the Lord for the building up of Zion; and in doing this they render themselves liable to have their feelings alienated, in whole or in part, from the church which requires their all. We may say on this point, that it is the testimony of brethren who have joined organizations of this character and severed their connections with them, that their tendency is to draw away from the church; and it may be said and expected, without question, if the lines were sharply drawn between Mormon and non-Mormon, that all such organizations would be found in e ranks of our enemies, on the principle set forth in the saying of our Savior, "Those who are not for us are against us."
I am so glad you brought this statement to my attention! It is particularly interesting that it was issued by Lorenzo Snow AND Joseph F Smith. Joseph F Smith was 2nd Counselor to Brigham Young in 1895. Brigham took the 1st counselor, George Q Cannon, and set off for a San Francisco event at the Bohemian Grove Society. That is a secret society. It was there that Woodruff died.

If Joseph F Smith learned that the secret societies were evil, and joined in the Church pronouncement against it, why didn't he at this particular time, repent of the wayward path marked by the former leaders in becoming involved in a secret society? Is there unrepented sin in the annals of church history?

But, it goes much further than that. Brigham and his crew, were so all fired up to build the Masonic Hall in Nauvoo, they neglected building the temple, and never finished it. Joseph knew that was a mistake, and warned the people to help build the temple. Joseph Smith was not a Mason. But most of the apostles were. I think the connections with that secret society were the path that has led to where we are today. It is not pretty.

I am especially unhappy to see the hypocritical nature of this announcement to the general membership. When did the leaders swear off being Masons?
Great addition to the thread. Thanks.

There’sa bigger problem because in 2019 the church came out with a statement saying there is no prohibition against being a Mormon and a Mason. I’ll add that statement later.

Are you sure Joseph wasn’t a Mason? Have a source for that claim by chance?

endlessismyname
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Re: First Presidency Issues Statement on Secret Societies

Post by endlessismyname »

“In modern times, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) has clarified in its Now You Know series that its members may become Freemasons.”

endlessismyname
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Re: First Presidency Issues Statement on Secret Societies

Post by endlessismyname »

From the church website:

“Some early Latter-day Saints were Masons. Heber C. Kimball, Hyrum Smith, and others belonged to Masonic lodges in the 1820s, and Joseph Smith joined the fraternity in March 1842 in Nauvoo, Illinois.”

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BigT
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Pretty sure Joseph was a Mason. I’ve read he was hustled up to master rank in a few days. I’ll try to recall where I read that.

endlessismyname
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Re: First Presidency Issues Statement on Secret Societies

Post by endlessismyname »

Seems there was a time where we didn’t want them, and they didn’t want us:

“It's been nearly a quarter of a century since Freemasons in Utah rescinded a 60-year ban that prohibited Latter-day Saints from joining their fraternity. And while many remember the religious division that had characterized Freemasonry in the Beehive State from pioneer times, Glen Cook believes he is evidence that things are changing among his Masonic brethren.

Cook, a Salt Lake criminal defense attorney and Brigham Young University law school graduate, is believed to be the first member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to be elected grand master in Utah in nearly a century”

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Re: First Presidency Issues Statement on Secret Societies

Post by Joan7 »

endlessismyname wrote: November 24th, 2022, 8:46 pm From the church website:

“Some early Latter-day Saints were Masons. Heber C. Kimball, Hyrum Smith, and others belonged to Masonic lodges in the 1820s, and Joseph Smith joined the fraternity in March 1842 in Nauvoo, Illinois.”
That is according to the edited church history. I would be very interested if anyone can find a document from Joseph's lifetime which indicates he was involved with the Masons. I have not found a word. Joseph knew that the Lord's priority was the temple, do you think he approved of the brethren of the quorum shirking their duty to God to build up that secret society freemason lodge? I don't think so. Joseph was so totally engaged in the work of the Lord, day by day, he had no time for such things. In fact, for the last few years of his life, he never went anywhere, save he had a man with him that kept a record of where he went and what he did each day, throughout the day. I have read many of those entries. I have not found any indication that he was involved in that brotherhood, which would have been recorded by that man assigned to go with him. Now, take note, Joseph knew there were leaders involved in polygamy, which was against the Lord's will, and he and Hyrum had been preaching against it. The purpose of always having a record of his activities, was to prove, in a court of law, that he had not any relations with anyone save his wife, Emma.
Last edited by Joan7 on November 24th, 2022, 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Letfreedumbring
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Re: First Presidency Issues Statement on Secret Societies

Post by Letfreedumbring »

endlessismyname wrote: November 24th, 2022, 8:03 pm In 1901, the following circular letter from President Lorenzo Snow and his First Counselor Joseph F. Smith to all Stake Presidencies concerning Church members' desires to join "secret orders":

DEAR BRETHREN:

The following question has recently been asked us by one of our Stake Presidencies:

How strict shall we be with young men who wish to go to the temple who have united themselves with secret orders?

That our views might be known and acted upon by Presidents of Stakes generally, we send you herewith a copy of the same, as follows:

"The counsel of the First Presidency in all such cases has been against our brethren joining secret organizations*, and where any of them have already done so their counsel to them is to withdraw themselves from such organizations as soon as circumstances permit and wisdom dictate.

"It is true that many of our people have been led to join some of these societies on the ground that their aims and objects are purely charitable and social in their character, and besides, inducements are held out of procuring life insurance at greatly reduced rates. But however worthy their aims and objects may be, this fact remains: They are outside the pale of the church and kingdom of God, and brethren in allying themselves with them divide their allegiance with organizations that are man-made, and which have not been devised of the Lord for the building up of Zion; and in doing this they render themselves liable to have their feelings alienated, in whole or in part, from the church which requires their all. We may say on this point, that it is the testimony of brethren who have joined organizations of this character and severed their connections with them, that their tendency is to draw away from the church; and it may be said and expected, without question, if the lines were sharply drawn between Mormon and non-Mormon, that all such organizations would be found in e ranks of our enemies, on the principle set forth in the saying of our Savior, "Those who are not for us are against us."
* Excluding any organizations at University of Utah

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Post by Joan7 »

Here is a letter that Joseph wrote his brother in 1830, regarding the Masons:

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper ... ource-note

Brother Hyrum [Smith], beware of the Freemasons, [Alexander] McIntyre heard that you were in Manchester and he got out a warrant and went to your father’s to distress the family but Harrison [Samuel Harrison Smith] overheard their talk and they said that they cared not for the debt, if they only could obtain your body. They were there with carriages. Therefore beware of the Freemasons, This from yours &c.

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Re: First Presidency Issues Statement on Secret Societies

Post by gkearney »

I would point out that there is a big difference in building a simple three story frame building like the lodge hall at Nauvoo and the Temple there. The first takes a couple of months to finish the temple would take years even under the best of conditions.

The saint built out whole cities while working to complete temples. This including building theatres and other similar civic and recreation use buildings long before the temples in Utah were ever finished.

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Post by Niemand »

Masons often come out with the cliché that they are a society of secrets rather than a secret society. It's their version of 'sacred not secret", but points out that their existence isn't secret but their rituals are. (Despite being leaked.)

There are groups such as the OTO, Bohemian Grove and Bilderbergers who straddle that. They keep their existence and membership quiet and lowkey, but are not completely hidden.

Then there is another group. The Italian Mafia has tended to be in that category. Members deny involvement but their existence is widely known.

There are other groups who DON'T publicise their existence. There are inner circles in the WEF etc and groups behind it who are even more cagey about their existence.

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Re: First Presidency Issues Statement on Secret Societies

Post by Luke »

Joan7 wrote: November 24th, 2022, 8:27 pm I am so glad you brought this statement to my attention! It is particularly interesting that it was issued by Lorenzo Snow AND Joseph F Smith. Joseph F Smith was 2nd Counselor to Brigham Young in 1895. Brigham took the 1st counselor, George Q Cannon, and set off for a San Francisco event at the Bohemian Grove Society. That is a secret society. It was there that Woodruff died.
Brigham Young died in 1877, so what you just said clearly didn’t happen. I assume you meant Wilford Woodruff.
Joan7 wrote: November 24th, 2022, 8:27 pm Joseph Smith was not a Mason.
Yes he was.

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Luke
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Post by Luke »

Joan7 wrote: November 24th, 2022, 9:08 pm I would be very interested if anyone can find a document from Joseph's lifetime which indicates he was involved with the Masons.
Tuesday 15 Officiated as grand Chaplin. at the Installation of the Nauvoo Lodge. of Free Masons, on At the Grove. near the Temple. Grand Master Jonas being present.— A Large number of people assembled on the occasion, the day was exceedingly fine, all things were done in order, and universal satisfaction manifested. Admitted a meber of the Lodge in the evening.

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper ... er-1842/22

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Post by endlessismyname »

gkearney wrote: November 25th, 2022, 5:02 am I would point out that there is a big difference in building a simple three story frame building like the lodge hall at Nauvoo and the Temple there. The first takes a couple of months to finish the temple would take years even under the best of conditions.

The saint built out whole cities while working to complete temples. This including building theatres and other similar civic and recreation use buildings long before the temples in Utah were ever finished.
Good point. I'm especially interested to know what you think about the statement itself, gkearney, since you are very open about the fact that you joined yourself to one of these societies.

Do you feel that Snow and Smith's concerns about divided allegiances is unfounded?

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Post by silverado »

Matthew 6:24. No man can serve two masters....

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Re: First Presidency Issues Statement on Secret Societies

Post by gkearney »

endlessismyname wrote: November 25th, 2022, 9:16 am
gkearney wrote: November 25th, 2022, 5:02 am I would point out that there is a big difference in building a simple three story frame building like the lodge hall at Nauvoo and the Temple there. The first takes a couple of months to finish the temple would take years even under the best of conditions.

The saint built out whole cities while working to complete temples. This including building theatres and other similar civic and recreation use buildings long before the temples in Utah were ever finished.
Good point. I'm especially interested to know what you think about the statement itself, gkearney, since you are very open about the fact that you joined yourself to one of these societies.

Do you feel that Snow and Smith's concerns about divided allegiances is unfounded?
I of course can only speak for myself and Freemasonry in this. Given that Masonry is not and has never presented it self to be a religion I have never felt as if it presented any for of divided allegiances with my faith.

This statement strikes me as having come from a time when the Saints still saw themselves as an insular group who drew their collective identity from that fact
Last edited by gkearney on November 26th, 2022, 10:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: First Presidency Issues Statement on Secret Societies

Post by endlessismyname »

gkearney wrote: November 25th, 2022, 12:45 pm
endlessismyname wrote: November 25th, 2022, 9:16 am
gkearney wrote: November 25th, 2022, 5:02 am I would point out that there is a big difference in building a simple three story frame building like the lodge hall at Nauvoo and the Temple there. The first takes a couple of months to finish the temple would take years even under the best of conditions.

The saint built out whole cities while working to complete temples. This including building theatres and other similar civic and recreation use buildings long before the temples in Utah were ever finished.
Good point. I'm especially interested to know what you think about the statement itself, gkearney, since you are very open about the fact that you joined yourself to one of these societies.

Do you feel that Snow and Smith's concerns about divided allegiances is unfounded?
I of course can only speak for myself and Freemasonry in this. Given that Masonry is not and has never presented it self to be a religion I have never felt as if it presented any for of divided allegiances with my faith.

This statement stile me as having come from a time when the Saints still saw themselves as an insular group who drew their collective identity from that fact
Thanks for your thoughtful, honest response. I’m fascinated by this subject.

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Re: First Presidency Issues Statement on Secret Societies

Post by FoxMammaWisdom »

Church employed Alvin Gittins to paint Joseph throwing gang signs :?:
FiWFJoAWAAY70PI.jpg
FiWFJoAWAAY70PI.jpg (53.17 KiB) Viewed 481 times
FhLRKJBX0AAGVSD.jpg
FhLRKJBX0AAGVSD.jpg (124 KiB) Viewed 481 times
If Joseph wasn't a Freemason, why would he plea to his brotherhood of Freemasons in the mob murdering him, and use Freemason code, and cry out the Freemason Grand Hailing Sign of Distress: "Oh Lord, my God, is there no help for the widow's son?" :?:

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Re: First Presidency Issues Statement on Secret Societies

Post by gkearney »

FoxMammaWisdom wrote: November 26th, 2022, 1:35 pm Church employed Alvin Gittins to paint Joseph throwing gang signs :?: FiWFJoAWAAY70PI.jpg
FhLRKJBX0AAGVSD.jpg

If Joseph wasn't a Freemason, why would he plea to his brotherhood of Freemasons in the mob murdering him, and use Freemason code, and cry out the Freemason Grand Hailing Sign of Distress: "Oh Lord, my God, is there no help for the widow's son?" :?:
That Joseph Smith, as well as his brothers and father were Freemasons has never been in doubt.

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Post by FoxMammaWisdom »

gkearney wrote: November 26th, 2022, 2:11 pm
FoxMammaWisdom wrote: November 26th, 2022, 1:35 pm Church employed Alvin Gittins to paint Joseph throwing gang signs :?: FiWFJoAWAAY70PI.jpg
FhLRKJBX0AAGVSD.jpg

If Joseph wasn't a Freemason, why would he plea to his brotherhood of Freemasons in the mob murdering him, and use Freemason code, and cry out the Freemason Grand Hailing Sign of Distress: "Oh Lord, my God, is there no help for the widow's son?" :?:
That Joseph Smith, as well as his brothers and father were Freemasons has never been in doubt.
Pardon me, forgot to tag Joan7.

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Re: First Presidency Issues Statement on Secret Societies

Post by larsenb »

Joan7 wrote: November 24th, 2022, 8:27 pm . . . .
I am so glad you brought this statement to my attention! It is particularly interesting that it was issued by Lorenzo Snow AND Joseph F Smith. Joseph F Smith was 2nd Counselor to Wilford Woodruff in 1895. Brigham took the 1st counselor, George Q Cannon, and set off for a San Francisco event at the Bohemian Grove Society. That is a secret society. It was there that Woodruff died.

If Joseph F Smith learned that the secret societies were evil, and joined in the Church pronouncement against it, why didn't he at this particular time, repent of the wayward path marked by the former leaders in becoming involved in a secret society? Is there unrepented sin in the annals of church history?

But, it goes much further than that. Brigham and his crew, were so all fired up to build the Masonic Hall in Nauvoo, they neglected building the temple, and never finished it. Joseph knew that was a mistake, and warned the people to help build the temple. Joseph Smith was not a Mason. But most of the apostles were. I think the connections with that secret society were the path that has led to where we are today. It is not pretty.

I am especially unhappy to see the hypocritical nature of this announcement to the general membership. When did the leaders swear off being Masons?
Woodruff and Cannon did not go to SF in order to attend an "event at the Bohemian Grove Society". No evidence for this that I"m aware of. He probably went to Calif., for his health, as indicated by his diary, etc.

Now he was invited to attend a dinner put on for "octogenarians" at the Bohemian Club in SF, once he got there. But he had been staying at the house of a fellow LDS man and a friend of his, who also was a member of the Bohemian Club, so giving Woodruf an invitation to such an event would be a friendly gesture.

And I'm not sure, at least way back then, that the Bohemian Club was or is a secret society. It was certainly a by-invitation-only club, but I'm not aware of any evidence that it was an actual secret society.

So your question about an unrepented Joseph F. Smith doesn't really wash, in my strongly held view.

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Re: First Presidency Issues Statement on Secret Societies

Post by Joan7 »

FoxMammaWisdom wrote: November 26th, 2022, 2:16 pm
gkearney wrote: November 26th, 2022, 2:11 pm
FoxMammaWisdom wrote: November 26th, 2022, 1:35 pm Church employed Alvin Gittins to paint Joseph throwing gang signs :?: FiWFJoAWAAY70PI.jpg
FhLRKJBX0AAGVSD.jpg

If Joseph wasn't a Freemason, why would he plea to his brotherhood of Freemasons in the mob murdering him, and use Freemason code, and cry out the Freemason Grand Hailing Sign of Distress: "Oh Lord, my God, is there no help for the widow's son?" :?:
That Joseph Smith, as well as his brothers and father were Freemasons has never been in doubt.
Pardon me, forgot to tag Joan7.
Thanks. I cannot speak to his brothers or father. What I can speak to, is Joseph warning his brother about the Freemasons in 1830/1831. I find that evidence of Joseph becoming a Mason interesting. But, that is evidence that was not published until much later. What I am looking for are journal entries of him attending meetings, when there were masonic meetings, during the three years up to his death. I am feeling like the Lord had him go and see what the Brethren were doing, by going through the process himself. But, then he took no further part in their rituals or society. I have found evidence, that the Freemasons and the Railroad were linked to Brigham and overthrowing the church that Joseph set up. Which is why Brigham was so keenly interested and involved in Union Pacific. The most important man in getting the Union Pacific rail lines laid across the country was a Freemason. Still researching to see if the two ever met.

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Wondering Wendy
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Post by Wondering Wendy »

Joan7 wrote: November 26th, 2022, 7:27 pm I have found evidence, that the Freemasons and the Railroad were linked to Brigham and overthrowing the church that Joseph set up. Which is why Brigham was so keenly interested and involved in Union Pacific. The most important man in getting the Union Pacific rail lines laid across the country was a Freemason. Still researching to see if the two ever met.
I found some really interesting information on this site:
https://payseurs.com/payseur-family-history/

I have not linked the UP Railroad to the the Payseurs until a recent purchase, but the family pretty much owned them all back east back in the 1800-1900's. The originator of the family was apparently the Dauphin of France, who escaped the Revolution and changed his name, then moved to the US. The Rothschilds now own most of their former empire.

According to the site, the Payseurs are part of the 13 top Illuminati families. There's also a few interesting Mormon nuggets on there. Such as:
· The British Royalty are tied in with the 13th Bloodline.

· Many of the American political leaders have been related to the British Royalty incl. George Bush and Dan Quayle.

· Finally, a little of the genealogical information I assembled on the Mormon leaders is given.

The Mormon leadership ties back in with the leading occult bloodlines of the Merovingian dynasty.
The reason that I gave the genealogies of the some of the Mormon Presidents to people, is that all of the Mormon Presidents in history, whether RLDS or LDS, trace their blood back to this 13th bloodline.
Also:
Ezra Taft Benson is a descendent of Alphonso Taft, who along with William Huntington Russell (WHR), started the Order of the Skull and Bones at Yale University in 1832 (legally it has been known as the Russell Trust Association, inc. 1856).
Now, also according to the site, not everyone in these bloodlines actually participate in their satanic activities, as they, themselves, are Payseurs but poor and not insiders. The fact that Joseph was not rich, makes me believe he was not an insider.

What is also interesting to me, is the description of the Merovingian bloodline:
The 13th Illuminati Bloodline is where the Anti-Christ will come from. This bloodline believes that it has both the Holy Blood of Jesus and the blood (or seed) of Satan in its bloodline.
Not sure what to think about that. Anyway, the investigation continues. :)

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