Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

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Niemand
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by Niemand »

There are laws being brought in around the world so that people can alter their birth certificates... but even before all that, I don't think anyone at any time had asked me to produce a birth certificate or passport etc for baptism, endowment etc. If a convincing transgender could, they would, and many would be taken in by it.

Lizzy60
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by Lizzy60 »

1775peasant wrote: November 18th, 2022, 6:33 am
MikeMaillet wrote: November 18th, 2022, 4:57 am I have limited time to participate in the forum but I did read the majority of the posts in this discussion. I also read some of the news stories regarding the church's support of the bill. It seems that this is just another indication that our "leaders" have sold their souls to the whore Babylon and these guys are better left ignored. Instead of wasting our time paying attention to the Q15 we would be better off sticking our noses in the scriptures.

The topic of homosexuality is a hot button these days but what is right is right and what is wrong is wrong. Why do we pussyfoot around the subject? Adam (which is many) was placed in a state of deep sleep (amnesia) and was separated into two sexes, male and female. Is not the marriage act on earth a symbolic reunification of Adam and Eve? Homosexuality is a dead end and sodomy is a gross mockery of the power God has given us to perpetuate the species. Calling this "love" is an absolute farce. It is what it is and I don't have a problem saying it.

For those of you who still believe that the Q15 are Prophets, Seers and Revelators, how much more evidence do you need before you conclude that something is very wrong in Zion? The Book of Mormon tells us that we are living on land that was covenanted to belong to the descendants of Lehi and this covenanted land requires a certain life style or we will be swept off like the Nephites of old. We Gentiles had an opportunity to live the fulness of the Gospel (United Order) and we rejected the covenant and a consequence of this is that God's protection is no longer promised. Our land has been taken over by Satanists and we support these devil worshippers by using their money. With this money they have purchased all major media outlets and are now spreading their filth and polluting the minds of our youth.

Ignore the Q15 and stand up for what is right!

Mike

Isaiah 3

8) Jerusalem will falter and Judea fall
because their tongue and their actions
are contrary to Jehovah,
an affront to his glory before his very eyes.

9) The look on their faces betrays them:
they flaunt their sin like Sodom;
they cannot hide it.
Woe to their souls;
they have brought disaster upon themselves!

10) Tell the righteous it shall be well with them;
they shall eat the fruits of their own labors.

11) But woe to the wicked
when calamity overtakes them:
they shall be paid back
for the deeds they have done!

12) As for my people, babes subject them;
women wield authority over them.
O my people, your leaders mislead you,
abolishing your traditional ways.

13) Jehovah will take a stand and contend with them;
he has arisen to judge the nations.

14) He will bring to trial the elders of his people
and their rulers, and say to them,
It is you who have devoured the vineyard;
you fill your houses by depriving the needy.

yes, that’s 1 admirable course of action that would remove A LOT of distraction from the most important topics of life…….

BUT, if i were the posterity of Pioneer Stock, knowing i had ancestors that sacrificed so the Mormon Church could flourish, having generations contributed time, sweat & $$$ in the relatively short history of this Church…..? i’d be quite upset with these Leaders of today!

heck, i’m just a convert of 11 years now, and just witnessing the drastic changes in that drop of time, i’m at my wits end with these “leaders”!!!
I come from pioneer stock. One grandfather was in Liberty Jail with Joseph, and another emigrated from England, served in the Mormon Battalion, and had a city in Utah named after him. I am in my 60’s and I was “all in” and serving as a temple worker when everything started going off the rails. It is heartbreaking. I’ve tried to stay active in my local area, but even there the church has gutted so many things that used to bring ward members together. The outright support of the rights of homosexuals to make a mockery of marriage is intolerable.

Christianlee
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

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Does the fact nobody in the Q15 questions any of this publicly show they are all paid off almost like blackmail?

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ithink
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by ithink »

Dave62 wrote: November 15th, 2022, 4:32 pm I feel like I'm listening to Chamberlain appeasing Hitler.
Broken analogy, IMHO, because I agree with Patton -- who actually would have agreed with Chamberlain.

"We may have been fighting the wrong enemy (Germany) all along. But while we're here (on the Soviet border), we should go after the bastards now, 'cause we're gonna have to fight 'em eventually."

However, if we stay with your analogy, we have to ask: Who are the Soviets in this scenario?

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ithink
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

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Christianlee wrote: November 18th, 2022, 7:12 am Does the fact nobody in the Q15 questions any of this publicly show they are all paid off almost like blackmail?
Are they paid off? It's about money for sure.

But their thinking is just stinking to me.
In 2015, for instance, when a Kentucky county clerk, citing her Christian faith, refused to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples, Latter-day Saint apostle Dallin H. Oaks, a former Utah Supreme Court justice, spoke out against her decision. Public officials, he said at the time, “are not free to apply personal convictions — religious or other — in place of the defined responsibilities of their public offices.”


That's the dark side talking.

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ithink
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by ithink »

JandD6572 wrote: November 15th, 2022, 5:22 pm Rights? I suppose if God thought they should have equal rights, perhaps he would have reconsidered destroying Sodom and Gomorrah 🤷
Sodom and Gomorrah's final and most egregious sin was an economic one, not sexual moral depravity.

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ithink
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

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largerthanlife2 wrote: November 15th, 2022, 8:20 pm Sodom and Gomorrah has full support of the church.
Next thing Michael Mclean will be straight up writing uplifting music for the Backdoor Boys.

Afterglow takes on a whole new meaning as well.

It's coming(sp).

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ithink
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by ithink »

Niemand wrote: November 18th, 2022, 6:40 am There are laws being brought in around the world so that people can alter their birth certificates... but even before all that, I don't think anyone at any time had asked me to produce a birth certificate or passport etc for baptism, endowment etc. If a convincing transgender could, they would, and many would be taken in by it.
But surely the prophets would be able to discern the truth would they not?

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JandD6572
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by JandD6572 »

ithink wrote: November 18th, 2022, 7:30 am
JandD6572 wrote: November 15th, 2022, 5:22 pm Rights? I suppose if God thought they should have equal rights, perhaps he would have reconsidered destroying Sodom and Gomorrah 🤷
Sodom and Gomorrah's final and most egregious sin was an economic one, not sexual moral depravity.
I'm sure the bible says differently 🤔

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ithink
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by ithink »

JandD6572 wrote: November 18th, 2022, 7:54 am
ithink wrote: November 18th, 2022, 7:30 am
JandD6572 wrote: November 15th, 2022, 5:22 pm Rights? I suppose if God thought they should have equal rights, perhaps he would have reconsidered destroying Sodom and Gomorrah 🤷
Sodom and Gomorrah's final and most egregious sin was an economic one, not sexual moral depravity.
I'm sure the bible says differently 🤔
It does. I'm not referring to the Bible.

Say what?
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by Say what? »

I think this will never appease the LGBTQ. Their next step: change Heavenly Fathers mind!

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

For those of you who are still "in the boat", I hope you understand that the church will work its spinster magic as they've done for generations. They will present a lie so cunning that you'll gladly skip down the Babylonian yellow brick road.

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JandD6572
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by JandD6572 »

ithink wrote: November 18th, 2022, 7:56 am
JandD6572 wrote: November 18th, 2022, 7:54 am
ithink wrote: November 18th, 2022, 7:30 am
JandD6572 wrote: November 15th, 2022, 5:22 pm Rights? I suppose if God thought they should have equal rights, perhaps he would have reconsidered destroying Sodom and Gomorrah 🤷
Sodom and Gomorrah's final and most egregious sin was an economic one, not sexual moral depravity.
I'm sure the bible says differently 🤔
It does. I'm not referring to the Bible.
I'm not going by what the world says, or whoever thinks they uncovered some study of some sort, scripture is very clear about sexual immorality and the reasons Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed. Its thinking like what you're saying is why the church will be finding itself in the same predicament. But we will just have to agree to disagree.

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Subcomandante
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by Subcomandante »

The Church hasn't compromised a single thing. They recognize that they live in a country where same sex marriage is the law of the land.

They also recognize current actions being undertaken (wink wink Mike Lee wink wink) to try to put religious freedom protections within the law.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Subcomandante wrote: November 18th, 2022, 8:53 am The Church hasn't compromised a single thing. They recognize that they live in a country where same sex marriage is the law of the land.

They also recognize current actions being undertaken (wink wink Mike Lee wink wink) to try to put religious freedom protections within the law.
Keep skipping down that path Sub.

Image

CuriousThinker
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by CuriousThinker »

Subcomandante wrote: November 18th, 2022, 8:53 am The Church hasn't compromised a single thing. They recognize that they live in a country where same sex marriage is the law of the land.

They also recognize current actions being undertaken (wink wink Mike Lee wink wink) to try to put religious freedom protections within the law.
From their actions, they are not pro Mike Lee's actions. They are calling things rights that aren't and are doing everything they can to protect themselves while throwing individual religious liberty under the bus.

Lizzy60
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Posts: 8520

Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by Lizzy60 »

Subcomandante wrote: November 18th, 2022, 8:53 am The Church hasn't compromised a single thing. They recognize that they live in a country where same sex marriage is the law of the land.

They also recognize current actions being undertaken (wink wink Mike Lee wink wink) to try to put religious freedom protections within the law.
The Deseret News, 100% owned by the Church, supported Egg McMuffin against Mike Lee.

Joan7
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by Joan7 »

Subcomandante wrote: November 18th, 2022, 8:53 am The Church hasn't compromised a single thing. They recognize that they live in a country where same sex marriage is the law of the land.

They also recognize current actions being undertaken (wink wink Mike Lee wink wink) to try to put religious freedom protections within the law.
What they have written and done in the last while, is in exact opposition to the Proclamation on Family. That is the very definition of compromise.

<Subcomandate>Just think, if the Apostles in Jesus' time would have just obeyed those Roman laws, they wouldn't have been chased down and murdered! They should have just done as our wise stewards are doing. It is the right way of course. And those foolish Christians would not have ever been thrown to the lions. </not sarc, just applying your reasoning to another situation>

mtmom
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by mtmom »

Lizzy60 wrote: November 18th, 2022, 6:46 am
1775peasant wrote: November 18th, 2022, 6:33 am
MikeMaillet wrote: November 18th, 2022, 4:57 am I have limited time to participate in the forum but I did read the majority of the posts in this discussion. I also read some of the news stories regarding the church's support of the bill. It seems that this is just another indication that our "leaders" have sold their souls to the whore Babylon and these guys are better left ignored. Instead of wasting our time paying attention to the Q15 we would be better off sticking our noses in the scriptures.

The topic of homosexuality is a hot button these days but what is right is right and what is wrong is wrong. Why do we pussyfoot around the subject? Adam (which is many) was placed in a state of deep sleep (amnesia) and was separated into two sexes, male and female. Is not the marriage act on earth a symbolic reunification of Adam and Eve? Homosexuality is a dead end and sodomy is a gross mockery of the power God has given us to perpetuate the species. Calling this "love" is an absolute farce. It is what it is and I don't have a problem saying it.


For those of you who still believe that the Q15 are Prophets, Seers and Revelators, how much more evidence do you need before you conclude that something is very wrong in Zion? The Book of Mormon tells us that we are living on land that was covenanted to belong to the descendants of Lehi and this covenanted land requires a certain life style or we will be swept off like the Nephites of old. We Gentiles had an opportunity to live the fulness of the Gospel (United Order) and we rejected the covenant and a consequence of this is that God's protection is no longer promised. Our land has been taken over by Satanists and we support these devil worshippers by using their money. With this money they have purchased all major media outlets and are now spreading their filth and polluting the minds of our youth.

Ignore the Q15 and stand up for what is right!

Mike

Isaiah 3

8) Jerusalem will falter and Judea fall
because their tongue and their actions
are contrary to Jehovah,
an affront to his glory before his very eyes.

9) The look on their faces betrays them:
they flaunt their sin like Sodom;
they cannot hide it.
Woe to their souls;
they have brought disaster upon themselves!

10) Tell the righteous it shall be well with them;
they shall eat the fruits of their own labors.

11) But woe to the wicked
when calamity overtakes them:
they shall be paid back
for the deeds they have done!

12) As for my people, babes subject them;
women wield authority over them.
O my people, your leaders mislead you,
abolishing your traditional ways.

13) Jehovah will take a stand and contend with them;
he has arisen to judge the nations.

14) He will bring to trial the elders of his people
and their rulers, and say to them,
It is you who have devoured the vineyard;
you fill your houses by depriving the needy.

yes, that’s 1 admirable course of action that would remove A LOT of distraction from the most important topics of life…….

BUT, if i were the posterity of Pioneer Stock, knowing i had ancestors that sacrificed so the Mormon Church could flourish, having generations contributed time, sweat & $$$ in the relatively short history of this Church…..? i’d be quite upset with these Leaders of today!

heck, i’m just a convert of 11 years now, and just witnessing the drastic changes in that drop of time, i’m at my wits end with these “leaders”!!!
I come from pioneer stock. One grandfather was in Liberty Jail with Joseph, and another emigrated from England, served in the Mormon Battalion, and had a city in Utah named after him. I am in my 60’s and I was “all in” and serving as a temple worker when everything started going off the rails. It is heartbreaking. I’ve tried to stay active in my local area, but even there the church has gutted so many things that used to bring ward members together. The outright support of the rights of homosexuals to make a mockery of marriage is intolerable.
I also come from pioneer stock on my mother's side. My gr, gr, great grandmother tried to wash Joseph's blood off the floors (after Joseph and Hyrum were brought into the mansion house) after they were assassinated. She said they could not wash it off. She was there helping.

The direction the church is going in breaks my heart. Are our general authorities being blackmailed into backing the UN and the new world order? Are we being sold out? I don't understand.

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The Red Pill
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by The Red Pill »

Kit-OTW wrote: November 18th, 2022, 9:46 am
Subcomandante wrote: November 18th, 2022, 8:53 am The Church hasn't compromised a single thing. They recognize that they live in a country where same sex marriage is the law of the land.

They also recognize current actions being undertaken (wink wink Mike Lee wink wink) to try to put religious freedom protections within the law.
What they have written and done in the last while, is in exact opposition to the Proclamation on Family. That is the very definition of compromise.
Good point!

I personally, will use stronger language...since God is the same yesterday, today and forever (unchanging)...and the scriptures are quite clear about homo behavior...and the Proclamation on Family is quite clear on homo behavior...the "leaders" have taken the church into Apostasy.

Ditto with the clot-shot "urging". They CLEARLY were NOT getting their intel from God...and CAN very much lead you astray.

Christianlee
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Posts: 2531

Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by Christianlee »

Alexander wrote: November 17th, 2022, 7:56 pm
The Red Pill wrote: November 17th, 2022, 4:48 pm What does my wife tell her Catholic colleague who asked why the Mormons would support such a thing???
Image
Image
The Pope hasn’t changed anything. The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops has come out against this law because the religious freedom protections are weak. The difference between the Catholic Church and the LDS Church is Catholic Bishops and Cardinals have the freedom to go against Papal opinions. The LDS hierarchy never criticizes the Corporation of the President. I wish the Q12 felt they had the right to criticize the President of the Church.

Lizzy60
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Posts: 8520

Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by Lizzy60 »

Niemand wrote: November 18th, 2022, 6:40 am There are laws being brought in around the world so that people can alter their birth certificates... but even before all that, I don't think anyone at any time had asked me to produce a birth certificate or passport etc for baptism, endowment etc. If a convincing transgender could, they would, and many would be taken in by it.
As early as Feb 2020, this was the update in the Handbook:

A new section on transgender people says the church will allow members identifying as transgender to be baptized, confirmed and take the sacrament and they can update their preferred names and pronouns in the church records.

tribrac
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by tribrac »

mtmom wrote: November 18th, 2022, 10:31 am
The direction the church is going in breaks my heart. Are our general authorities being blackmailed into backing the UN and the new world order? Are we being sold out? I don't understand.
Looks like someone forgot to doubt her doubts and question herself for questioning.

Remember, you can find peace if you turn every question you have into an inner search for something you did wrong. Your guilt and shame will help you forget the question.

Serragon
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by Serragon »

tribrac wrote: November 18th, 2022, 11:35 am
mtmom wrote: November 18th, 2022, 10:31 am
The direction the church is going in breaks my heart. Are our general authorities being blackmailed into backing the UN and the new world order? Are we being sold out? I don't understand.
Looks like someone forgot to doubt her doubts and question herself for questioning.

Remember, you can find peace if you turn every question you have into an inner search for something you did wrong. Your guilt and shame will help you forget the question.
But if I am to doubt my doubts, then I have to doubt those doubts of doubts as well. Which puts me in an infinite loop of doubting.

More nice sounding wisdom from our leaders that can easily be quoted by members while having no real substance beneath it.

Christianlee
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Re: Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

Post by Christianlee »

Lizzy60 wrote: November 18th, 2022, 11:28 am
Niemand wrote: November 18th, 2022, 6:40 am There are laws being brought in around the world so that people can alter their birth certificates... but even before all that, I don't think anyone at any time had asked me to produce a birth certificate or passport etc for baptism, endowment etc. If a convincing transgender could, they would, and many would be taken in by it.
As early as Feb 2020, this was the update in the Handbook:

A new section on transgender people says the church will allow members identifying as transgender to be baptized, confirmed and take the sacrament and they can update their preferred names and pronouns in the church records.
Wasn’t there a time when having transgender surgery was a reason for excommunication?

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