Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

[TheChristian]

In the days our Lord walked the earth He gave the very essence of worshipping God called the Sermon on the mount, those that heard said sermon and followed it, become

Peacemakers,
Mercyfull,
Non Judgemental,
Loved their friends and foes,
They became Christians.

There also were deeply religious men whom resented with great hatred and self righteous indignation the Roman and greek occupation and defilement of their land with all the pagan customs the Romans and greeks brought with them.
They were known as "Zealots" they did not listen to Jesus of Nazeraths Sermon apon the mount, and so in around 70 AD they arose up and rebelled against the Romans......
They say that over a million of them were slaughtered by the Romans, their Temple was destroyed and those taken captive were led out of Jerusalem as slaves, never to return to their beloved Israel again.................

If only they had listened to that Sermon apon the Mount....

The best preaching a Christian can do is not by loud and angry words, but by example, by ensuring that our own lives are spotless and by our kindness towards all our fellow men, that all can see our acts of charity which speak louder than words, by this some hearts will soften and will ask us why we are the way we are and hence we are given opportunities to share the message of Jesus with them.
Go read the multitude of accounts thru out the ages and of our present day of men and women whom were hardened in their sins and when shown kindness and mercy became Instruments of grace in the hands of the very God they had so fought against.

The questions for all we religious men are
"Are we Christians or Zealots?"
Are we builders of peace or are we destroyers of peace.

You confuse pacifism with Christianity

You realize the Jews were shocked because Jesus was claiming that their very thoughts would send them to hell?

What is Light that doesn't expose Darkness (not actual light)

Sermon on the Mount:

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
---------------

You're speaking half truths

Matthew 10:34-37 KJV
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

Look us look to the Cross my brother, let us behold the One there hanging there in our stead, then we will understand, He was not just dieing and shedding His precious blood for us but for all our brothers and Sisters.
Be thankfull He has given us undeserved mercy, yes we sinners whoms religious works are like filthy rotten rags in His sight and let us beg our Saviour that the same mercy He has shown unto us might be shown and manifested unto those that do not know Him that they also might share in that grace of salvation with us.
Look at all the true Martyrs thru the last 2000 years, look at stephen as he was being stoned for his witness of our Lord......... Jesus he cried, have mercy apon them for they know not what they do......
Our Saviour Himself, whilst apon the cross, heard a mothers weepings, a thiefs cry and as the howling mob was jeering and mocking Him he called out " Father forgive them for they know not what they do"

Look us look to the example of the One whom hung apon the Cross, then pick up ones cross and follow Him, let not the mockers and scoffers, nor the waywardness of the word distract our eyes off the Saviour, but humbly bear our Cross and follow in our Masters footsteps.......

I was a little confused by your prior post. We’re you saying that we should be careful as to how we go about calling out sin? Especially when doing it out of anger and not love.

Or are you saying that we shouldn’t be calling out sin at all?

My brother, I think the sins we should be calling out is the sin in ourselves, when I look into the mirror every morning to wash my face I am staring at the worst devil and sinner that I will ever encounter and I will spend a life time striving with him..

[tribrac]

I want to thank Jimmy Lee Farnsworth for joining us today.

[IcedKoffee]

You confuse pacifism with Christianity

You realize the Jews were shocked because Jesus was claiming that their very thoughts would send them to hell?

What is Light that doesn't expose Darkness (not actual light)

Sermon on the Mount:

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
---------------

You're speaking half truths

Matthew 10:34-37 KJV
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

Look us look to the Cross my brother, let us behold the One there hanging there in our stead, then we will understand, He was not just dieing and shedding His precious blood for us but for all our brothers and Sisters.
Be thankfull He has given us undeserved mercy, yes we sinners whoms religious works are like filthy rotten rags in His sight and let us beg our Saviour that the same mercy He has shown unto us might be shown and manifested unto those that do not know Him that they also might share in that grace of salvation with us.
Look at all the true Martyrs thru the last 2000 years, look at stephen as he was being stoned for his witness of our Lord......... Jesus he cried, have mercy apon them for they know not what they do......
Our Saviour Himself, whilst apon the cross, heard a mothers weepings, a thiefs cry and as the howling mob was jeering and mocking Him he called out " Father forgive them for they know not what they do"

Look us look to the example of the One whom hung apon the Cross, then pick up ones cross and follow Him, let not the mockers and scoffers, nor the waywardness of the word distract our eyes off the Saviour, but humbly bear our Cross and follow in our Masters footsteps.......

I was a little confused by your prior post. We’re you saying that we should be careful as to how we go about calling out sin? Especially when doing it out of anger and not love.

Or are you saying that we shouldn’t be calling out sin at all?

I am speaking for him (not in any official capacity) and he can correct me if I am wrong or misunderstood what he was saying , but I believe he is calling out calling out sin for the sake of sin. I agree with that. We shouldn't be "calling out sin" we should be calling poeple unto Christ. In Calling poeple unto Christ sin may be exposed, but it isn't for sins sake, but more for the salvation of the soul. It is a nuance that I believe matters. IF we look at others as "sinners" rather than as Saints who happen to be lost, then we can focus more on the sin rather than on the purpose of Christ, which was to save. Calling out sin to a person in sin rarely resolves sin, but it is in PReaching Christ that the heart is chagned and desires to cast off sin. For instance most youth know htey shouldn't fornicate. Telling them they are fornicators isn't going to fix that in most cases, but in some it may if we snatch them out in love. In most cases they need to be built up in faith in Christ and realize what their identity is in Him. This will allow them to be strengthened nad overcome through Christ - His grace will take care of the rest.

In short if we view everyone as a sinner, our view is wrong. We aren't to view them as sinners, but as Sheep who have become lost. In the traditional sense when I hear "call out sin" I see "You are a sinner and you are going to hell" That is judgment. Rather than. Christ died so you might be saved. Turn to Him and live, cast off your old life and live, be set free. We all were condemned to death but for God and His mercy. Believe and receive.

I actually agree with this. However, we are living in a time where the lines of what it means to be a sinner are very effectively and deliberately being blurred. To the point where many so called Christian minister’s are preaching that homosexuality is of God. Trying to combat that message is a messy process. Especially with everyone being so emotionally charged. As the acceptance of homosexuality continue’s to grow and become normalized. It will be important to speak to the reality of what homosexuality really is, and to stand firm on the right side of the argument. Speaking the truth will always be necessary. Having said that, many Christian’s use the truth as an excuse to bash people over the head with it. So your point is well taken. Love is how we win souls to Christ. And as Christians I believe we need to be extremely careful with what we say, and how we say it. Calling someone a fag who’s going to burn in hell forever will never bring anyone to God. The task of being patient, empathetic, and truthful is the responsibility of anyone who claims to follow Christ.

[The Red Pill]

I want to thank Jimmy Lee Farnsworth for joining us today.

I love Fletch...

[IcedKoffee]

You confuse pacifism with Christianity

You realize the Jews were shocked because Jesus was claiming that their very thoughts would send them to hell?

What is Light that doesn't expose Darkness (not actual light)

Sermon on the Mount:

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
---------------

You're speaking half truths

Matthew 10:34-37 KJV
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

Look us look to the Cross my brother, let us behold the One there hanging there in our stead, then we will understand, He was not just dieing and shedding His precious blood for us but for all our brothers and Sisters.
Be thankfull He has given us undeserved mercy, yes we sinners whoms religious works are like filthy rotten rags in His sight and let us beg our Saviour that the same mercy He has shown unto us might be shown and manifested unto those that do not know Him that they also might share in that grace of salvation with us.
Look at all the true Martyrs thru the last 2000 years, look at stephen as he was being stoned for his witness of our Lord......... Jesus he cried, have mercy apon them for they know not what they do......
Our Saviour Himself, whilst apon the cross, heard a mothers weepings, a thiefs cry and as the howling mob was jeering and mocking Him he called out " Father forgive them for they know not what they do"

Look us look to the example of the One whom hung apon the Cross, then pick up ones cross and follow Him, let not the mockers and scoffers, nor the waywardness of the word distract our eyes off the Saviour, but humbly bear our Cross and follow in our Masters footsteps.......

I was a little confused by your prior post. We’re you saying that we should be careful as to how we go about calling out sin? Especially when doing it out of anger and not love.

Or are you saying that we shouldn’t be calling out sin at all?

My brother, I think the sins we should be calling out is the sin in ourselves, when I look into the mirror every morning to wash my face I am staring at the worst devil and sinner that I will ever encounter and I will spend a life time striving with him..

While I agree, allow to pose a question to you. In my family one of our nieces has recently come out as gay and she is currently in a relationship with another young lady. Her current belief is that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality because she was “born that way” so God must have made her gay. So therefore she sees nothing wrong with dating and possibly marrying her girlfriend. If you were in my shoes would you tell her that God loves her no matter what she chooses? Or would you lovingly point her to the scriptures were she can read for herself what God has to say about those who choose to live that lifestyle?

[John Tavner]

Look us look to the Cross my brother, let us behold the One there hanging there in our stead, then we will understand, He was not just dieing and shedding His precious blood for us but for all our brothers and Sisters.
Be thankfull He has given us undeserved mercy, yes we sinners whoms religious works are like filthy rotten rags in His sight and let us beg our Saviour that the same mercy He has shown unto us might be shown and manifested unto those that do not know Him that they also might share in that grace of salvation with us.
Look at all the true Martyrs thru the last 2000 years, look at stephen as he was being stoned for his witness of our Lord......... Jesus he cried, have mercy apon them for they know not what they do......
Our Saviour Himself, whilst apon the cross, heard a mothers weepings, a thiefs cry and as the howling mob was jeering and mocking Him he called out " Father forgive them for they know not what they do"

Look us look to the example of the One whom hung apon the Cross, then pick up ones cross and follow Him, let not the mockers and scoffers, nor the waywardness of the word distract our eyes off the Saviour, but humbly bear our Cross and follow in our Masters footsteps.......

I was a little confused by your prior post. We’re you saying that we should be careful as to how we go about calling out sin? Especially when doing it out of anger and not love.

Or are you saying that we shouldn’t be calling out sin at all?

My brother, I think the sins we should be calling out is the sin in ourselves, when I look into the mirror every morning to wash my face I am staring at the worst devil and sinner that I will ever encounter and I will spend a life time striving with him..

While I agree, allow to pose a question to you. In my family one of our nieces has recently come out as gay and she is currently in a relationship with another young lady. Her current belief is that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality because she was “born that way” so God must have made her gay. So therefore she sees nothing wrong with dating and possibly marrying her girlfriend. If you were in my shoes would you tell her that God loves her no matter what she chooses? Or would you lovingly point her to the scriptures were she can read for herself what God has to say about those who choose to live that lifestyle?

I wasn't asked, but in my journey I would probably do something of the following, first ask God so that I might see her as He sees her. Then trust in the Spirit. My initial thought, though would be to do the first step and then when hte moment is right, trusting in the Lord, teach her about who God and Christ really are. Teach her about how they bring life to the world. Sowing seeds. HOw God made us in His image, that because of hte fall we've become deceived, that lies have been planted in all of us that we all believe things we shouldn't and Christ came to expose the lie and allow us to live in Truth. That Adam and Eve were created with the purpose of propogating hte image of God and not of man, but because man fell, it needs be born again. If she gets born again, I believe she will know- and God meets peole wherever they are as long as they come to them and HE doesn't want them to stay there. We can do it with ulterior motive, but share with her how there is a law of sin and death, and Christ came to remove us from that law. Sowing seeds that life is of God. If it doesn't produce life, it isn't of God (as she wrestles with that seed, choosing to accept or reject it , we can water through our love and manifesting hte love of God to her, continuign to water the word with words of LIfe. It will click at some point that Lesbianism can not bring forth life, therefore it can't be of God nor can it be accepted. There may be a point when she asks about it in an accusatory way even in defense. YOu can replay with a question, often as teh Savior did.As she faces truth, she either has to accept it or reject it, but she won't be able to live decieved anymore. All this though, as you know can only be done in pure love, without projection. or with very little projection, because she will know. I'm not even saying it is easy, but I really Believe God can be in that encounter.

She already "feels" that is her lifestyle or likely that she can't "escape" it. We have to teach her she is free and it never was who she identitfies as,.

[TheChristian]

Look us look to the Cross my brother, let us behold the One there hanging there in our stead, then we will understand, He was not just dieing and shedding His precious blood for us but for all our brothers and Sisters.
Be thankfull He has given us undeserved mercy, yes we sinners whoms religious works are like filthy rotten rags in His sight and let us beg our Saviour that the same mercy He has shown unto us might be shown and manifested unto those that do not know Him that they also might share in that grace of salvation with us.
Look at all the true Martyrs thru the last 2000 years, look at stephen as he was being stoned for his witness of our Lord......... Jesus he cried, have mercy apon them for they know not what they do......
Our Saviour Himself, whilst apon the cross, heard a mothers weepings, a thiefs cry and as the howling mob was jeering and mocking Him he called out " Father forgive them for they know not what they do"

Look us look to the example of the One whom hung apon the Cross, then pick up ones cross and follow Him, let not the mockers and scoffers, nor the waywardness of the word distract our eyes off the Saviour, but humbly bear our Cross and follow in our Masters footsteps.......

I was a little confused by your prior post. We’re you saying that we should be careful as to how we go about calling out sin? Especially when doing it out of anger and not love.

Or are you saying that we shouldn’t be calling out sin at all?

My brother, I think the sins we should be calling out is the sin in ourselves, when I look into the mirror every morning to wash my face I am staring at the worst devil and sinner that I will ever encounter and I will spend a life time striving with him..

While I agree, allow to pose a question to you. In my family one of our nieces has recently come out as gay and she is currently in a relationship with another young lady. Her current belief is that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality because she was “born that way” so God must have made her gay. So therefore she sees nothing wrong with dating and possibly marrying her girlfriend. If you were in my shoes would you tell her that God loves her no matter what she chooses? Or would you lovingly point her to the scriptures were she can read for herself what God has to say about those who choose to live that lifestyle?

I would continue to love them as I love myself and pray for their souls and opportunities to tell them about Jesus of Nazerath and His sacrifice .
The preaching of the Cross is the power of God unto salvation.

We can only plant the Gospel seed, it is Jesus of Nazerath that makes the seed grow.

[IcedKoffee]

I was a little confused by your prior post. We’re you saying that we should be careful as to how we go about calling out sin? Especially when doing it out of anger and not love.

Or are you saying that we shouldn’t be calling out sin at all?

My brother, I think the sins we should be calling out is the sin in ourselves, when I look into the mirror every morning to wash my face I am staring at the worst devil and sinner that I will ever encounter and I will spend a life time striving with him..

While I agree, allow to pose a question to you. In my family one of our nieces has recently come out as gay and she is currently in a relationship with another young lady. Her current belief is that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality because she was “born that way” so God must have made her gay. So therefore she sees nothing wrong with dating and possibly marrying her girlfriend. If you were in my shoes would you tell her that God loves her no matter what she chooses? Or would you lovingly point her to the scriptures were she can read for herself what God has to say about those who choose to live that lifestyle?

I wasn't asked, but in my journey I would probably do something of the following, first ask God so that I might see her as He sees her. Then trust in the Spirit. My initial thought, though would be to do the first step and then when hte moment is right, trusting in the Lord, teach her about who God and Christ really are. Teach her about how they bring life to the world. Sowing seeds. HOw God made us in His image, that because of hte fall we've become deceived, that lies have been planted in all of us that we all believe things we shouldn't and Christ came to expose the lie and allow us to live in Truth. That Adam and Eve were created with the purpose of propogating hte image of God and not of man, but because man fell, it needs be born again. If she gets born again, I believe she will know- and God meets peole wherever they are as long as they come to them and HE doesn't want them to stay there. We can do it with ulterior motive, but share with her how there is a law of sin and death, and Christ came to remove us from that law. Sowing seeds that life is of God. If it doesn't produce life, it isn't of God (as she wrestles with that seed, choosing to accept or reject it , we can water through our love and manifesting hte love of God to her, continuign to water the word with words of LIfe. It will click at some point that Lesbianism can not bring forth life, therefore it can't be of God nor can it be accepted. There may be a point when she asks about it in an accusatory way even in defense. YOu can replay with a question, often as teh Savior did.As she faces truth, she either has to accept it or reject it, but she won't be able to live decieved anymore. All this though, as you know can only be done in pure love, without projection. or with very little projection, because she will know. I'm not even saying it is easy, but I really Believe God can be in that encounter.

She already "feels" that is her lifestyle or likely that she can't "escape" it. We have to teach her she is free and it never was who she identitfies as,.

As much as I would have loved to do and say all that we don’t see or talk to her all that much. Her parents have already caved to her lifestyle, and now they are even more emboldened in their beliefs with the churches recent support of gay marriage. All my wife and I had was a 30 minute telephone conversation with her. As much as I can appreciate what it is that you are trying to say, sometimes you have to speak the truth boldly and plainly.

[HVDC]

Look us look to the Cross my brother, let us behold the One there hanging there in our stead, then we will understand, He was not just dieing and shedding His precious blood for us but for all our brothers and Sisters.
Be thankfull He has given us undeserved mercy, yes we sinners whoms religious works are like filthy rotten rags in His sight and let us beg our Saviour that the same mercy He has shown unto us might be shown and manifested unto those that do not know Him that they also might share in that grace of salvation with us.
Look at all the true Martyrs thru the last 2000 years, look at stephen as he was being stoned for his witness of our Lord......... Jesus he cried, have mercy apon them for they know not what they do......
Our Saviour Himself, whilst apon the cross, heard a mothers weepings, a thiefs cry and as the howling mob was jeering and mocking Him he called out " Father forgive them for they know not what they do"

Look us look to the example of the One whom hung apon the Cross, then pick up ones cross and follow Him, let not the mockers and scoffers, nor the waywardness of the word distract our eyes off the Saviour, but humbly bear our Cross and follow in our Masters footsteps.......

I was a little confused by your prior post. We’re you saying that we should be careful as to how we go about calling out sin? Especially when doing it out of anger and not love.

Or are you saying that we shouldn’t be calling out sin at all?

My brother, I think the sins we should be calling out is the sin in ourselves, when I look into the mirror every morning to wash my face I am staring at the worst devil and sinner that I will ever encounter and I will spend a life time striving with him..

While I agree, allow to pose a question to you. In my family one of our nieces has recently come out as gay and she is currently in a relationship with another young lady. Her current belief is that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality because she was “born that way” so God must have made her gay. So therefore she sees nothing wrong with dating and possibly marrying her girlfriend. If you were in my shoes would you tell her that God loves her no matter what she chooses? Or would you lovingly point her to the scriptures were she can read for herself what God has to say about those who choose to live that lifestyle?

I'd tell what I tell anyone else who asks.

Lots of roads out there.

Some are more interesting than others.

All have a fare.

Makes sure the one you're on is taking you to the place you want to arrive at.

And that you can afford the toll.

Most tell me they never heard it put that way before.

I don't know if it influenced them in any way.

Sir H

[IcedKoffee]

I was a little confused by your prior post. We’re you saying that we should be careful as to how we go about calling out sin? Especially when doing it out of anger and not love.

Or are you saying that we shouldn’t be calling out sin at all?

My brother, I think the sins we should be calling out is the sin in ourselves, when I look into the mirror every morning to wash my face I am staring at the worst devil and sinner that I will ever encounter and I will spend a life time striving with him..

While I agree, allow to pose a question to you. In my family one of our nieces has recently come out as gay and she is currently in a relationship with another young lady. Her current belief is that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality because she was “born that way” so God must have made her gay. So therefore she sees nothing wrong with dating and possibly marrying her girlfriend. If you were in my shoes would you tell her that God loves her no matter what she chooses? Or would you lovingly point her to the scriptures were she can read for herself what God has to say about those who choose to live that lifestyle?

I would continue to love them as I love myself and pray for their souls and opportunities to tell them about Jesus of Nazerath and His sacrifice .
The preaching of the Cross is the power of God unto salvation.

We can only plant the Gospel seed, it is Jesus of Nazerath that makes the seed grow.

So let me repackage the question. If you saw someone driving off of a cliff. Would you beep at them and try to warn them? Or would you pray for them and hope that they see their error before driving off into certain death?

[John Tavner]

My brother, I think the sins we should be calling out is the sin in ourselves, when I look into the mirror every morning to wash my face I am staring at the worst devil and sinner that I will ever encounter and I will spend a life time striving with him..

While I agree, allow to pose a question to you. In my family one of our nieces has recently come out as gay and she is currently in a relationship with another young lady. Her current belief is that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality because she was “born that way” so God must have made her gay. So therefore she sees nothing wrong with dating and possibly marrying her girlfriend. If you were in my shoes would you tell her that God loves her no matter what she chooses? Or would you lovingly point her to the scriptures were she can read for herself what God has to say about those who choose to live that lifestyle?

I wasn't asked, but in my journey I would probably do something of the following, first ask God so that I might see her as He sees her. Then trust in the Spirit. My initial thought, though would be to do the first step and then when hte moment is right, trusting in the Lord, teach her about who God and Christ really are. Teach her about how they bring life to the world. Sowing seeds. HOw God made us in His image, that because of hte fall we've become deceived, that lies have been planted in all of us that we all believe things we shouldn't and Christ came to expose the lie and allow us to live in Truth. That Adam and Eve were created with the purpose of propogating hte image of God and not of man, but because man fell, it needs be born again. If she gets born again, I believe she will know- and God meets peole wherever they are as long as they come to them and HE doesn't want them to stay there. We can do it with ulterior motive, but share with her how there is a law of sin and death, and Christ came to remove us from that law. Sowing seeds that life is of God. If it doesn't produce life, it isn't of God (as she wrestles with that seed, choosing to accept or reject it , we can water through our love and manifesting hte love of God to her, continuign to water the word with words of LIfe. It will click at some point that Lesbianism can not bring forth life, therefore it can't be of God nor can it be accepted. There may be a point when she asks about it in an accusatory way even in defense. YOu can replay with a question, often as teh Savior did.As she faces truth, she either has to accept it or reject it, but she won't be able to live decieved anymore. All this though, as you know can only be done in pure love, without projection. or with very little projection, because she will know. I'm not even saying it is easy, but I really Believe God can be in that encounter.

She already "feels" that is her lifestyle or likely that she can't "escape" it. We have to teach her she is free and it never was who she identitfies as,.

As much as I would have loved to do and say all that we don’t see or talk to her all that much. Her parents have already caved to her lifestyle, and now they are even more emboldened in their beliefs with the churches recent support of gay marriage. All my wife and I had was a 30 minute telephone conversation with her. As much as I can appreciate what it is that you are trying to say, sometimes you have to speak the truth boldly and plainly.

Yeah, I do'nt know, I"m not in your shoes. Perhaps there was another way, perhaps not. Perhaps your situation was you, as James says "sntaching them out of the fire." That is between you and God. Though I suspect if her parents have catered to her lifestyle, her beliefs are built on lie after lie... especially if they hvae an LDS background, but I admit freely I could be worng. You will know your own heart and God will be merciful to you as well and if it was done in love, or not then the Grace of God can still touch her through you or others. All we can do is hace faith. adn the prayer of a righteous man availeth much. Our inteceesory prayers can have a lot of power towards unbelievers when done in the love of Christ. I wish you the best in your journey brother!

[Shawn Henry]

Might is dependent upon our faith.

We weren't talking about degrees of faith, we are talking about past, present, and future tense. Evil has not been put down, Satan is currently at his best.

[Lizzy60]

I was a little confused by your prior post. We’re you saying that we should be careful as to how we go about calling out sin? Especially when doing it out of anger and not love.

Or are you saying that we shouldn’t be calling out sin at all?

My brother, I think the sins we should be calling out is the sin in ourselves, when I look into the mirror every morning to wash my face I am staring at the worst devil and sinner that I will ever encounter and I will spend a life time striving with him..

While I agree, allow to pose a question to you. In my family one of our nieces has recently come out as gay and she is currently in a relationship with another young lady. Her current belief is that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality because she was “born that way” so God must have made her gay. So therefore she sees nothing wrong with dating and possibly marrying her girlfriend. If you were in my shoes would you tell her that God loves her no matter what she chooses? Or would you lovingly point her to the scriptures were she can read for herself what God has to say about those who choose to live that lifestyle?

I'd tell what I tell anyone else who asks.

Lots of roads out there.

Some are more interesting than others.

All have a fare.

Makes sure the one you're on is taking you to the place you want to arrive at.

And that you can afford the toll.

Most tell me they never heard it put that way before.

I don't know if it influenced them in any way.

Sir H

From a song — “How far will you go, down a road that’s paved with gold, that takes away your soul?

[John Tavner]

Might is dependent upon our faith.

We weren't talking about degrees of faith, we are talking about past, present, and future tense. Evil has not been put down, Satan is currently at his best.

"My kingdom is not of this world" "The Kingdom of God is within you" "fear not little flock your Father is pleased to give you the Kingdom."
The Kingdom of God is not meat or drink, but righeousness, peace and joy in the Holy SPirit.

I'm not talking about degrees of faith either. I"m talking about believing the word of God. When you bleieve what God did for you the lies fall apart. You become free. Satan has no more power over you. You are an ambassador for the Kingdom of God. This world is the devils Kingdom only because people believe the lie. Satan continues to convince people to continue to believe the lies and so they remain bound. If you halter a horse long enough, if you do hte same motions, even if you lack the halter, the horse will still believe you have a halter - even when they are set free. We are teh same. We believe what we see/have experienced more than we have faith in what God has told us He has done for us. I'm saying we need to stop living in the Kingdom of the Devil and start living in the Kingdom of God, which HE promised us we can have if we believe... fear not, it is the Father's GOOD PLEASURE to give you the Kingdom.

Faith is trusting in God and His word. It is having a Hope (joyful expectation) of receiving that which HE has said. Even if you don't see it now, you know you will and you live as if you have already received and grace makes it so.

[The Red Pill]

Here is the bitter reality of how the churches horrendous decision is viewed by the world.

Are you proud of those headlines? I'm NOT!

[Serragon]

I was a little confused by your prior post. We’re you saying that we should be careful as to how we go about calling out sin? Especially when doing it out of anger and not love.

Or are you saying that we shouldn’t be calling out sin at all?

My brother, I think the sins we should be calling out is the sin in ourselves, when I look into the mirror every morning to wash my face I am staring at the worst devil and sinner that I will ever encounter and I will spend a life time striving with him..

While I agree, allow to pose a question to you. In my family one of our nieces has recently come out as gay and she is currently in a relationship with another young lady. Her current belief is that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality because she was “born that way” so God must have made her gay. So therefore she sees nothing wrong with dating and possibly marrying her girlfriend. If you were in my shoes would you tell her that God loves her no matter what she chooses? Or would you lovingly point her to the scriptures were she can read for herself what God has to say about those who choose to live that lifestyle?

I wasn't asked, but in my journey I would probably do something of the following, first ask God so that I might see her as He sees her. Then trust in the Spirit. My initial thought, though would be to do the first step and then when hte moment is right, trusting in the Lord, teach her about who God and Christ really are. Teach her about how they bring life to the world. Sowing seeds. HOw God made us in His image, that because of hte fall we've become deceived, that lies have been planted in all of us that we all believe things we shouldn't and Christ came to expose the lie and allow us to live in Truth. That Adam and Eve were created with the purpose of propogating hte image of God and not of man, but because man fell, it needs be born again. If she gets born again, I believe she will know- and God meets peole wherever they are as long as they come to them and HE doesn't want them to stay there. We can do it with ulterior motive, but share with her how there is a law of sin and death, and Christ came to remove us from that law. Sowing seeds that life is of God. If it doesn't produce life, it isn't of God (as she wrestles with that seed, choosing to accept or reject it , we can water through our love and manifesting hte love of God to her, continuign to water the word with words of LIfe. It will click at some point that Lesbianism can not bring forth life, therefore it can't be of God nor can it be accepted. There may be a point when she asks about it in an accusatory way even in defense. YOu can replay with a question, often as teh Savior did.As she faces truth, she either has to accept it or reject it, but she won't be able to live decieved anymore. All this though, as you know can only be done in pure love, without projection. or with very little projection, because she will know. I'm not even saying it is easy, but I really Believe God can be in that encounter.

She already "feels" that is her lifestyle or likely that she can't "escape" it. We have to teach her she is free and it never was who she identitfies as,.

I appreciate you taking the abstract principles constantly espoused by TheChristian and giving them a practical implementation. I think most of us are actually very much in alignment with each other, and it is easier to see at the practical level.

There is much power in abstraction. It allows us to get our minds around ideas and concepts that would be difficult to do otherwise. But ultimately these abstractions must have some implementation attached to them to have any value in our lives. And this is where the great danger of abstraction lies. When we divorce our ideas and principles from the practical, there is no limit to where those ideas can take you. We end up with great evil when others attempt to put an implementation to those impractical ideas, or with complete isolation from reality.

TheChristian talks constantly in the abstract. "preach Christ" "Look to the Cross". Abstract ideas that no one disagrees with, but are absolutely meaningless without some practical application. Wehn no one can agree on what it means to "Preach Christ,", what is the point of the constant repetition of the abstract idea? When the one person believes that Christ requires they give up their natural man and the other believes it means that Christ wants you to indulge yourself in it, of what use is the constant refrain "Preach Christ"? This is the very issue Joseph struggled with. And it is the direction our church is heading by trying to be tolerant and inclusive by removing the practical aspects of our faith.

So again, thank you for providing some practical application. The abstract is a very comfortable and safe place to live, but it takes a courageous Christian who is interested in the actual implementation of those principles to help bring the power of Godliness to peoples lives. Zion wasn't built on abstract ideas and preaching. King Lamoni's people were not brought to an understanding of their need for a Savior through abstraction. It took real people implementing those principles in their lives.

[FoundMyEden]

My brother, I think the sins we should be calling out is the sin in ourselves, when I look into the mirror every morning to wash my face I am staring at the worst devil and sinner that I will ever encounter and I will spend a life time striving with him..

While I agree, allow to pose a question to you. In my family one of our nieces has recently come out as gay and she is currently in a relationship with another young lady. Her current belief is that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality because she was “born that way” so God must have made her gay. So therefore she sees nothing wrong with dating and possibly marrying her girlfriend. If you were in my shoes would you tell her that God loves her no matter what she chooses? Or would you lovingly point her to the scriptures were she can read for herself what God has to say about those who choose to live that lifestyle?

I wasn't asked, but in my journey I would probably do something of the following, first ask God so that I might see her as He sees her. Then trust in the Spirit. My initial thought, though would be to do the first step and then when hte moment is right, trusting in the Lord, teach her about who God and Christ really are. Teach her about how they bring life to the world. Sowing seeds. HOw God made us in His image, that because of hte fall we've become deceived, that lies have been planted in all of us that we all believe things we shouldn't and Christ came to expose the lie and allow us to live in Truth. That Adam and Eve were created with the purpose of propogating hte image of God and not of man, but because man fell, it needs be born again. If she gets born again, I believe she will know- and God meets peole wherever they are as long as they come to them and HE doesn't want them to stay there. We can do it with ulterior motive, but share with her how there is a law of sin and death, and Christ came to remove us from that law. Sowing seeds that life is of God. If it doesn't produce life, it isn't of God (as she wrestles with that seed, choosing to accept or reject it , we can water through our love and manifesting hte love of God to her, continuign to water the word with words of LIfe. It will click at some point that Lesbianism can not bring forth life, therefore it can't be of God nor can it be accepted. There may be a point when she asks about it in an accusatory way even in defense. YOu can replay with a question, often as teh Savior did.As she faces truth, she either has to accept it or reject it, but she won't be able to live decieved anymore. All this though, as you know can only be done in pure love, without projection. or with very little projection, because she will know. I'm not even saying it is easy, but I really Believe God can be in that encounter.

She already "feels" that is her lifestyle or likely that she can't "escape" it. We have to teach her she is free and it never was who she identitfies as,.

As much as I would have loved to do and say all that we don’t see or talk to her all that much. Her parents have already caved to her lifestyle, and now they are even more emboldened in their beliefs with the churches recent support of gay marriage. All my wife and I had was a 30 minute telephone conversation with her. As much as I can appreciate what it is that you are trying to say, sometimes you have to speak the truth boldly and plainly.

I call it out boldly and plainly. I have a child who wants to claim ssa. I tell her we love her but it’s obvious when you look at the design of creation that ssa will only prevent life, not continue it, therefore it’s not of God. We love our children but do not pander to their emotions that will cause obvious damning to their lives. I have a brother-in-law who lived the lifestyle, came out of it, and is struggling with going back into it because he does not want to carry his cross. He thinks he has to do it alone, but he doesn’t. We love him but again do not support those decisions if he chooses to live a ssa lifestyle. I struggled with ssa growing up but did not recognize it as “I was born this way” anymore than someone who struggled with anything in this world. I had suffered a lot of abuse from men and I believe that was my emotional state for denial towards the opposite sex. But ssa can be overcome and it IS a choice. It is not something that someone should have to hide if they struggle but it shouldn’t be thrown in peoples faces as something that people should accept and can’t be overcome. It should be overcome. It’s not natural, it’s not productive to society, and it’s not truth. It is a lie and a deception from the adversary. I speak the truth being a person who has struggled with it, but overcame it. So I can speak from both sides, and I speak it boldly.

*edit for spelling

[TheChristian]

My brother, I think the sins we should be calling out is the sin in ourselves, when I look into the mirror every morning to wash my face I am staring at the worst devil and sinner that I will ever encounter and I will spend a life time striving with him..

While I agree, allow to pose a question to you. In my family one of our nieces has recently come out as gay and she is currently in a relationship with another young lady. Her current belief is that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality because she was “born that way” so God must have made her gay. So therefore she sees nothing wrong with dating and possibly marrying her girlfriend. If you were in my shoes would you tell her that God loves her no matter what she chooses? Or would you lovingly point her to the scriptures were she can read for herself what God has to say about those who choose to live that lifestyle?

I would continue to love them as I love myself and pray for their souls and opportunities to tell them about Jesus of Nazerath and His sacrifice .
The preaching of the Cross is the power of God unto salvation.

We can only plant the Gospel seed, it is Jesus of Nazerath that makes the seed grow.

So let me repackage the question. If you saw someone driving off of a cliff. Would you beep at them and try to warn them? Or would you pray for them and hope that they see their error before driving off into certain death?

Speaking about Christs love for mankind and of his sacrifice apon the Cross is the greatest yet gentlest warning voices of all, a gentle testimony is louder than any trumpet call.......

Not by might, nor by strength, but by My Spirit says the Lord.

Sharing ones witness of Jesus of Nazerath by the power of the Spirit of God is the only way..........

[Joan7]

• Do we, or do we not believe that Satan and his angels have power to possess our bodies?
• Did Christ spend the majority of His ministry casting out devils and unclean spirits?
• What would be the result of unclean spirits, of the opposite sex of the victim, entered into the body of a son or daughter of God?
• Do you think you would be more focused on casting out devils and unclean spirits?

[IcedKoffee]

While I agree, allow to pose a question to you. In my family one of our nieces has recently come out as gay and she is currently in a relationship with another young lady. Her current belief is that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality because she was “born that way” so God must have made her gay. So therefore she sees nothing wrong with dating and possibly marrying her girlfriend. If you were in my shoes would you tell her that God loves her no matter what she chooses? Or would you lovingly point her to the scriptures were she can read for herself what God has to say about those who choose to live that lifestyle?

I wasn't asked, but in my journey I would probably do something of the following, first ask God so that I might see her as He sees her. Then trust in the Spirit. My initial thought, though would be to do the first step and then when hte moment is right, trusting in the Lord, teach her about who God and Christ really are. Teach her about how they bring life to the world. Sowing seeds. HOw God made us in His image, that because of hte fall we've become deceived, that lies have been planted in all of us that we all believe things we shouldn't and Christ came to expose the lie and allow us to live in Truth. That Adam and Eve were created with the purpose of propogating hte image of God and not of man, but because man fell, it needs be born again. If she gets born again, I believe she will know- and God meets peole wherever they are as long as they come to them and HE doesn't want them to stay there. We can do it with ulterior motive, but share with her how there is a law of sin and death, and Christ came to remove us from that law. Sowing seeds that life is of God. If it doesn't produce life, it isn't of God (as she wrestles with that seed, choosing to accept or reject it , we can water through our love and manifesting hte love of God to her, continuign to water the word with words of LIfe. It will click at some point that Lesbianism can not bring forth life, therefore it can't be of God nor can it be accepted. There may be a point when she asks about it in an accusatory way even in defense. YOu can replay with a question, often as teh Savior did.As she faces truth, she either has to accept it or reject it, but she won't be able to live decieved anymore. All this though, as you know can only be done in pure love, without projection. or with very little projection, because she will know. I'm not even saying it is easy, but I really Believe God can be in that encounter.

She already "feels" that is her lifestyle or likely that she can't "escape" it. We have to teach her she is free and it never was who she identitfies as,.

As much as I would have loved to do and say all that we don’t see or talk to her all that much. Her parents have already caved to her lifestyle, and now they are even more emboldened in their beliefs with the churches recent support of gay marriage. All my wife and I had was a 30 minute telephone conversation with her. As much as I can appreciate what it is that you are trying to say, sometimes you have to speak the truth boldly and plainly.

I call it out boldly and plainly. I have a child who wants to claim ssa. I tell her we love her but it’s obvious when you look at the design of creation that ssa will only prevent life, not continue it, therefore it’s not of God. We love our children but do not pander to their emotions that will cause obvious damning to their lives. I have a brother-in-law who lived the lifestyle, came out of it, and is struggling with going back into it because he does not want to carry his cross. He thinks he has to do it alone, but he doesn’t. We love him but again do not support those decisions if he chooses to live a ssa lifestyle. I struggled with ssa growing up but did not recognize it as “I was born this way” anymore than someone who struggled with anything in this world. I had suffered a lot of abuse from men and I believe that was my emotional state for denial towards the opposite sex. But ssa can be overcome and it IS a choice. It is not something that someone should have to hide if they struggle but it shouldn’t be thrown in peoples faces as something that people should accept and can’t be overcome. It should be overcome. It’s not natural, it’s not productive to society, and it’s not truth. It is a lie and a deception from the adversary. I speak the truth being a person who has struggled with it, but overcame it. So I can speak from both sides, and I speak it boldly.

*edit for spelling

Thank you for sharing that. Ssa is such a difficult mine field to navigate through. I really do feel for them. Christians haven’t helped the situation much either by how we’ve handled it over the years. It takes a lot of patience and compassion to try and understand where their coming from. While at the same time doing our best to teach them biblical truths without scaring them away. Congratulations on over coming your own struggles. We all have something that we are dealing with. I feel like the “holier then though” attitude that many Christians exude make it difficult for people to connect and relate to. When in reality those people are often the most damaged. It’s no wonder that the LDS youth are finding people like John Dehlin a welcomed refuge. Good luck with your child. I’m sure it will be a tough road ahead especially with the gay lifestyle/agenda becoming more and more attractive and prevalent, but I’m sure the Lord will be guiding you and your family!

God bless!!

[Christianlee]

Catholic and Southern Baptist leaders oppose the same sex marriage bill. Senator Mike Lee told Glenn Beck today the bill does not protect religious freedom.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/religi ... 18a9ccdcbc

[Serragon]

While I agree, allow to pose a question to you. In my family one of our nieces has recently come out as gay and she is currently in a relationship with another young lady. Her current belief is that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality because she was “born that way” so God must have made her gay. So therefore she sees nothing wrong with dating and possibly marrying her girlfriend. If you were in my shoes would you tell her that God loves her no matter what she chooses? Or would you lovingly point her to the scriptures were she can read for herself what God has to say about those who choose to live that lifestyle?

I wasn't asked, but in my journey I would probably do something of the following, first ask God so that I might see her as He sees her. Then trust in the Spirit. My initial thought, though would be to do the first step and then when hte moment is right, trusting in the Lord, teach her about who God and Christ really are. Teach her about how they bring life to the world. Sowing seeds. HOw God made us in His image, that because of hte fall we've become deceived, that lies have been planted in all of us that we all believe things we shouldn't and Christ came to expose the lie and allow us to live in Truth. That Adam and Eve were created with the purpose of propogating hte image of God and not of man, but because man fell, it needs be born again. If she gets born again, I believe she will know- and God meets peole wherever they are as long as they come to them and HE doesn't want them to stay there. We can do it with ulterior motive, but share with her how there is a law of sin and death, and Christ came to remove us from that law. Sowing seeds that life is of God. If it doesn't produce life, it isn't of God (as she wrestles with that seed, choosing to accept or reject it , we can water through our love and manifesting hte love of God to her, continuign to water the word with words of LIfe. It will click at some point that Lesbianism can not bring forth life, therefore it can't be of God nor can it be accepted. There may be a point when she asks about it in an accusatory way even in defense. YOu can replay with a question, often as teh Savior did.As she faces truth, she either has to accept it or reject it, but she won't be able to live decieved anymore. All this though, as you know can only be done in pure love, without projection. or with very little projection, because she will know. I'm not even saying it is easy, but I really Believe God can be in that encounter.

She already "feels" that is her lifestyle or likely that she can't "escape" it. We have to teach her she is free and it never was who she identitfies as,.

As much as I would have loved to do and say all that we don’t see or talk to her all that much. Her parents have already caved to her lifestyle, and now they are even more emboldened in their beliefs with the churches recent support of gay marriage. All my wife and I had was a 30 minute telephone conversation with her. As much as I can appreciate what it is that you are trying to say, sometimes you have to speak the truth boldly and plainly.

I call it out boldly and plainly. I have a child who wants to claim ssa. I tell her we love her but it’s obvious when you look at the design of creation that ssa will only prevent life, not continue it, therefore it’s not of God. We love our children but do not pander to their emotions that will cause obvious damning to their lives. I have a brother-in-law who lived the lifestyle, came out of it, and is struggling with going back into it because he does not want to carry his cross. He thinks he has to do it alone, but he doesn’t. We love him but again do not support those decisions if he chooses to live a ssa lifestyle. I struggled with ssa growing up but did not recognize it as “I was born this way” anymore than someone who struggled with anything in this world. I had suffered a lot of abuse from men and I believe that was my emotional state for denial towards the opposite sex. But ssa can be overcome and it IS a choice. It is not something that someone should have to hide if they struggle but it shouldn’t be thrown in peoples faces as something that people should accept and can’t be overcome. It should be overcome. It’s not natural, it’s not productive to society, and it’s not truth. It is a lie and a deception from the adversary. I speak the truth being a person who has struggled with it, but overcame it. So I can speak from both sides, and I speak it boldly.

*edit for spelling

Thank you. I have had close family members and friends who have attractions to the same sex. They simply do not nourish those emotions. They are happy and do not feel any sense of oppression for not being able to indulge their natural man.

This is how the church used to deal with this issue. But since they have gone down the path of homosexuality as an identity, it is now near impossible to help people overcome this particular weakness. They feel justified in their behavior instead of seeing a need to overcome. In addition, there is no indulgence of the natural man that cannot be justified by claiming that your desires are actually your identity and thereby not only justified but celebrated in the eyes of God. This radical change our leaders have implemented is going to be our undoing. God won't support a people who claim to be His while actually standing for hedonism.

[h_p]

https://www.theblaze.com/news/republica ... rriage-act

In her statement, Collins said she supported the bill because it protects against discrimination and strengthens protections for religious liberty.

"This bill recognizes the unique and extraordinary importance of marriage on an individual and societal level," Collins said in a statement. "It would help promote equality, prevent discrimination, and protect the rights of Americans in same-sex and interracial marriages. It would accomplish these goals while maintaining—and indeed strengthening—important religious liberty and conscience protections."

The bill gained significant bipartisan support after a small bipartisan group of senators supported an amendment to protect religious liberties.

The exemption for churches was added to the Senate bill the same day the church issued their statement in support of the bill. I also noticed that the amendment added a clause excluding polygamous relationships from the new definition of marriage. And Mitt Romney was one of the key senators getting the amendment added. The church's fingerprints are all over this thing.

So they basically carved out an exemption for themselves and their businesses. The rest of the traditional-marriage folks with secular businesses can go pound sand. Sucks to be them, I guess!

[Christianlee]

Who do you trust more? Mitt Romney or Mike Lee? I’m with Lee.

https://news.yahoo.com/utah-sen-mike-le ... fb&tsrc=fb

[h_p]

Imagine if the Church's leaders decided to use the same type of language that President Kimball and President Benson used in the 60s up into the 80s. Social Media? Forget about it! ESG? Down the tubes. Bank accounts? Potentially blocked (this is already in the woodworks). Persecution to the point of confiscation of buildings and temples and making the Church illegal in those countries? You betcha.

It's not that I do not have faith. It's not that the Church doesn't have faith. The Church has to be smart. We members have to be smart. Association with a forum like this could be seen as bad.

You should change your user name to Neville Chamberlain. I think it'd be very fitting.