Official Church statement: Respect for Marriage Act

[Christianlee]

Why is it obvious?

The only reason it's obvious is because of RELIGION.

Without religion you can make up any rules you want to to please your narcissist tendencies.

Nonsense.
People are born with the light of Christ (conscience).... the ability to know right from wrong.

Why won't you answer my original question....?

What is worse?

Here's part of the answer,

Revelation 21:27:

27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

As for which is worse the Bible doesn't exactly have a hierarchy of which sins are the worst, we are told that no unclean thing can enter into the presence of God.

We do know that there is one unforgivable sin though, blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. We also know that God calls the act of homosexuality an Abomination and destroyed Sodom & Gomorrah for this vile practice. According to some Jewish scholars the two reasons that God flooded the world were Same-Sex Marriage & Beastiality. Additionally, the scriptures warn that those that practice homosexuality will be given over to a reprobate mind, hardness of heart, and will be filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity;whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents. Without understanding, covenant breakers, without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful. Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

The other one that you compare this to "a guy setting up a church that promotes the idea that there is no sin or Christ?" there are no direct correlation in the scriptures. Furthermore, it would depend on one's understanding and relationship to God, and their faith or lack thereof. For example, if the person in question had committed the unforgivable sin, then obviously this "guy" would be on a one-way ticket to hll. Your question does not give us context on this "guy" for us to know if this is or is not the case.

Jesus does talk a lot about the Pharisees & Sadducees of his day, which I would assume would be similar to many modern-day pastors that start their own religions.

The bottom line is that all of us need to repent and through Christ's Atonement, we can be saved. The people that you asked the question about (without additional context) have the ability to go through this process. It comes down to what choices people choose to make in this life and the hereafter.

Yes... there is a DIRECT correlation in the scriptures.


Furthermore.........................................

Jk

You miss my point.

God says I have the freedom to turn to Satan, set up a church... and spread an antichrist religion until everyone I can reach is lost.

God also say that I can choose to be gay and live with a man
Lol BUT HEAVEN FORBID THE MIGHTY STATE WOULD RECOGNIZE IT
then we'd really be sinning. Because the state....Well...it's the state. And us Americans worship at its altar.
Who is the government to recognize a marriage? It makes no sense to me.

Take away our silly modern ways and then hash it out

I lived with my wife for 5 years before we were "legally" married. And even at the beginning of it I considered her my wife.
But I need the state to sign off on it. Lol it's blows my mind.

F the state. They don't make anything more or less sinful.
It's the people that do. It's what people think even before they act. It's the prevailing opinions... even before they are moved into action.
By our thoughts we are judged.


LDS have this "subject" mentality, whether it be the state or religion.
It's because LDS want to live the old law with undertones of the new (old wine new bottle type)

The thing is, under Moses in the old world... if you tried to set up a religion that said God wasn't real, they would kill you

But in the Old testament time on this continent... God made a strict law where a man could do this if you wanted to.

Why the discrepancy

This this what leads me to believe that if I'm not infringing on someone else's rights..... I'm free to do what I want

If you want to stop a gay persons from claiming they are married..... Then be man enough to say we should break into the gays house to stop them from living together.

This thread is about what the Church is approving not about what the government is doing.

[TheChristian]

In the days our Lord walked the earth He gave the very essence of worshipping God called the Sermon on the mount, those that heard said sermon and followed it, become

Peacemakers,
Mercyfull,
Non Judgemental,
Loved their friends and foes,
They became Christians.

There also were deeply religious men whom resented with great hatred and self righteous indignation the Roman and greek occupation and defilement of their land with all the pagan customs the Romans and greeks brought with them.
They were known as "Zealots" they did not listen to Jesus of Nazeraths Sermon apon the mount, and so in around 70 AD they arose up and rebelled against the Romans......
They say that over a million of them were slaughtered by the Romans, their Temple was destroyed and those taken captive were led out of Jerusalem as slaves, never to return to their beloved Israel again.................

If only they had listened to that Sermon apon the Mount....

The best preaching a Christian can do is not by loud and angry words, but by example, by ensuring that our own lives are spotless and by our kindness towards all our fellow men, that all can see our acts of charity which speak louder than words, by this some hearts will soften and will ask us why we are the way we are and hence we are given opportunities to share the message of Jesus with them.
Go read the multitude of accounts thru out the ages and of our present day of men and women whom were hardened in their sins and when shown kindness and mercy became Instruments of grace in the hands of the very God they had so fought against.

The questions for all we religious men are
"Are we Christians or Zealots?"
Are we builders of peace or are we destroyers of peace.

[Thinker]

Pandora's Box has a lot of things in it.

Can't just pick the ones we like.

And leave the rest.

True - a lot of things in Pandora’s Box (or Eve & Adam taking the fruit).

Still, I believe you cannot help but be selective.
Who knows and thinks about everything 24-7?
So, there is a need to focus on the good while keeping bad in the periphery… take the best, leave the rest.

[Thinker]

The Church is perfectly comfortable selling out your individual rights for the false hope that their religious rights will be protected.

The Church is condemning itself in the long run.

So short sighted, so stupid

While it’s definitely short -sighted, there’s evidence to suggest blackmail is the motivating factor leading leaders & thus the millions of members who blindly follow.

[Thinker]

Unpopular opinion here

I just don't think it's the government should be in the marriage business

In a high trust, moral society the government wouldn't need to be involved in marriage. But since we don't have that the government has to be involved.

Exactly.
And on here where herd mentality is not immune, the notion is actually popular.
Suggesting marriage should not involve government is suggesting we should have no government period. And such arguments give little thought to the real reason of “legal” marriage: children.

'If men were angels, no government would be necessary.'
-James Madison

[Thinker]

If that law gets signed, married gay students will be mixed all through BYU housing. If that "preserving the rights" gets codified, women will be legalized into men's housing, and men into women's in church run schools. The same goes for trans. The new law isn't focused on preserving rights, it is, truthfully, a battering ram that will be used to make the rights of this small percentage of the population more important than everyone else's rights.

Why do you think they are in such an all fired hurry? Did you know they are voting on that law today?

The really sickening thing is, the leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ know this will be the end result. And they are all for it. You know the 2nd in command is a top tier lawyer, who served for years as a Utah Supreme Court Judge.

It seems that church leaders care more about their own reputations & are acting on pressures of past blackmail & likely secret combinations (like Nelson’s Skull and Bones’ membership).

This is what is so insane & sad - leaders become corrupted and then lead so many into the pit with them.

[nightlight]

Unpopular opinion here

I just don't think it's the government should be in the marriage business

In a high trust, moral society the government wouldn't need to be involved in marriage. But since we don't have that the government has to be involved.

Exactly.
And on here where herd mentality is not immune, the notion is actually popular.
Suggesting marriage should not involve government is suggesting we should have no government period. And such arguments give little thought to the real reason of “legal” marriage: children.

'If men were angels, no government would be necessary.'
-James Madison

Herd mentality?
It's actually the opposite, with all those in favor for government regulations on ALL things as the

And I don't need to be married to have a child. A gay couple doesn't either

So.....what good is the mighty "government acknowledgement"?

Its nonsense. It's empty words on worthless paper

Return to sender

[mtmom]

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.or ... a9W4aO0UUQ

The Church does not believe in FORCING governments to adhere to its definition of marriage. Nor does it believe that the government has the right to FORCE a specific definition of marriage on people who might disagree with this interpretation. The moment the government starts to abuse that power, the Church will be forceful amongst the opponents on that abuse of power.

I do not believe that for a minute!! I believe we have been sold out. So at this point, we will agree to disagree.

[nightlight]

In the days our Lord walked the earth He gave the very essence of worshipping God called the Sermon on the mount, those that heard said sermon and followed it, become

Peacemakers,
Mercyfull,
Non Judgemental,
Loved their friends and foes,
They became Christians.

There also were deeply religious men whom resented with great hatred and self righteous indignation the Roman and greek occupation and defilement of their land with all the pagan customs the Romans and greeks brought with them.
They were known as "Zealots" they did not listen to Jesus of Nazeraths Sermon apon the mount, and so in around 70 AD they arose up and rebelled against the Romans......
They say that over a million of them were slaughtered by the Romans, their Temple was destroyed and those taken captive were led out of Jerusalem as slaves, never to return to their beloved Israel again.................

If only they had listened to that Sermon apon the Mount....

The best preaching a Christian can do is not by loud and angry words, but by example, by ensuring that our own lives are spotless and by our kindness towards all our fellow men, that all can see our acts of charity which speak louder than words, by this some hearts will soften and will ask us why we are the way we are and hence we are given opportunities to share the message of Jesus with them.
Go read the multitude of accounts thru out the ages and of our present day of men and women whom were hardened in their sins and when shown kindness and mercy became Instruments of grace in the hands of the very God they had so fought against.

The questions for all we religious men are
"Are we Christians or Zealots?"
Are we builders of peace or are we destroyers of peace.

You confuse pacifism with Christianity

You realize the Jews were shocked because Jesus was claiming that their very thoughts would send them to hell?

What is Light that doesn't expose Darkness (not actual light)

Sermon on the Mount:

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
---------------

You're speaking half truths

Matthew 10:34-37 KJV
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

[[email protected]]

The answer to all these questions of why the Church would essentially do a 180 on it's positions is really simple.

The Church is has an incredible amount of wealth and assests and it wants to protect them. If it chooses to maintain it's traditional stances on certain social issues it will put those assets in jeopardy as it risks being "cancelled". Basically the Church is too tied up in the things of the world.

If the leadership wants to take a softer stance on same-sex marriage and homosexuality in general then it is what it is. However, it then starts to become incredibly hypocritical to be strongly speaking out against things like pronography use or really any kind of sexual immorality.

I no longer believe Russell Nelson is a prophet, and I no longer believe God is at this head of this church and this is part the reason why. Nelson is lead by focus groups, public relations teams, lawyers and I don't know how it can be any more clear.

[John Tavner]

In the days our Lord walked the earth He gave the very essence of worshipping God called the Sermon on the mount, those that heard said sermon and followed it, become

Peacemakers,
Mercyfull,
Non Judgemental,
Loved their friends and foes,
They became Christians.

There also were deeply religious men whom resented with great hatred and self righteous indignation the Roman and greek occupation and defilement of their land with all the pagan customs the Romans and greeks brought with them.
They were known as "Zealots" they did not listen to Jesus of Nazeraths Sermon apon the mount, and so in around 70 AD they arose up and rebelled against the Romans......
They say that over a million of them were slaughtered by the Romans, their Temple was destroyed and those taken captive were led out of Jerusalem as slaves, never to return to their beloved Israel again.................

If only they had listened to that Sermon apon the Mount....

The best preaching a Christian can do is not by loud and angry words, but by example, by ensuring that our own lives are spotless and by our kindness towards all our fellow men, that all can see our acts of charity which speak louder than words, by this some hearts will soften and will ask us why we are the way we are and hence we are given opportunities to share the message of Jesus with them.
Go read the multitude of accounts thru out the ages and of our present day of men and women whom were hardened in their sins and when shown kindness and mercy became Instruments of grace in the hands of the very God they had so fought against.

The questions for all we religious men are
"Are we Christians or Zealots?"
Are we builders of peace or are we destroyers of peace.

You confuse pacifism with Christianity

You realize the Jews were shocked because Jesus was claiming that their very thoughts would send them to hell?

What is Light that doesn't expose Darkness (not actual light)

Sermon on the Mount:

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
---------------

You're speaking half truths

Matthew 10:34-37 KJV
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

I don't think he is confusing them. Our intent ought to be covered by love, and not just for the sake of calling out sin for sin's sake. It is why intent matters, it is why our heart matters when we do things. (I'm not saying that is what you are saying, but I don't think he is saying what you think he is saying)

The sword is not a physical sword, but one of truth. The truth will create variance. Truth does not need to be shared angrily. It does not need to be done haughtily. It is truth. It cuts it's own way. Rather we are to speak truth, in love (Eph 4:15) 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ—16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.
Too often, I include myself in this, I have spoken truth from a place of pride and condemnation. Christ's purpose was to save, not to condemn. If the eternal welfare and love for the person is not in our heart, we may need to commune with God more in order to obtain that so we do share truth in love. For works do nothing, but faith works through love Gal 5:6 ( For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.)

I would also add that Christ says to love your enemies (foes)- and if we love our father or mother or siblings more than Him we are not worthy of Him.

[Shawn Henry]

Are we builders of peace or are we destroyers of peace.

There is no peace until you destroy evil.

There's no such thing as peaceful Laodicean Christians.

[John Tavner]

Are we builders of peace or are we destroyers of peace.

There is no peace until you destroy evil.

There's no such thing as peaceful Laodicean Christians.

Christ already destroyed the works of hte devil- the question we have to ask and renew our minds daily over is whether or not we will let His grace do that to us daily and keep us in His kingdom or return to the Kingdom of the Prince of Air.

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Do we believe and do we let Him purify us and believe we are cleansed of our sin and made righteous? Do we let His righteousness guide us or our own fallen nature?

[nightlight]

In the days our Lord walked the earth He gave the very essence of worshipping God called the Sermon on the mount, those that heard said sermon and followed it, become

Peacemakers,
Mercyfull,
Non Judgemental,
Loved their friends and foes,
They became Christians.

There also were deeply religious men whom resented with great hatred and self righteous indignation the Roman and greek occupation and defilement of their land with all the pagan customs the Romans and greeks brought with them.
They were known as "Zealots" they did not listen to Jesus of Nazeraths Sermon apon the mount, and so in around 70 AD they arose up and rebelled against the Romans......
They say that over a million of them were slaughtered by the Romans, their Temple was destroyed and those taken captive were led out of Jerusalem as slaves, never to return to their beloved Israel again.................

If only they had listened to that Sermon apon the Mount....

The best preaching a Christian can do is not by loud and angry words, but by example, by ensuring that our own lives are spotless and by our kindness towards all our fellow men, that all can see our acts of charity which speak louder than words, by this some hearts will soften and will ask us why we are the way we are and hence we are given opportunities to share the message of Jesus with them.
Go read the multitude of accounts thru out the ages and of our present day of men and women whom were hardened in their sins and when shown kindness and mercy became Instruments of grace in the hands of the very God they had so fought against.

The questions for all we religious men are
"Are we Christians or Zealots?"
Are we builders of peace or are we destroyers of peace.

You confuse pacifism with Christianity

You realize the Jews were shocked because Jesus was claiming that their very thoughts would send them to hell?

What is Light that doesn't expose Darkness (not actual light)

Sermon on the Mount:

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
---------------

You're speaking half truths

Matthew 10:34-37 KJV
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

I don't think he is confusing them. Our intent ought to be covered by love, and not for the sake of calling out sin for sin's sake. It is why intent matters, it is why our heart matters when we do things.

The sword is not a physical sword, but one of truth. The truth will create variance. Truth does not need to be shared angrily. It does not need to be done haughtily. It is truth. It cuts it's own way. Rather we are to speak truth, in love (Eph 4:15) 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ—16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.
Too often, I include myself in this, I have spoken truth from a place of pride and condemnation. Christ's purpose was to save, not to condemn. If the eternal welfare and love for the person is not in our heart, we may need to commune with God more in order to obtain that so we do share truth in love. For works do nothing, but faith works through love Gal 5:6 ( For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.)

Obviously not an actual sword my guy

Im not talking to people....I'm talking about ideas.

If anyone treats people like shjt because they are gay...they are fakes.


IF THE SUBJECT IS SODOMY.....does one say nothing, so not hurt feelings?

You cannot teach , with fairness, the + without teaching the -

I'm as kind to a gay man as anyone else...its not in my nature to not be friends with those I'm around, but its my beliefs on behavior that is hated by the unbelievers. It is what divides. Hence the hate towards Christ

[Shawn Henry]

Christ already destroyed the works of the devil- the question we have to ask and renew our minds daily over is whether or not we will let His grace do that to us daily and keep us in His kingdom or return to the Kingdom of the Prince of Air.

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Do we believe and do we let Him purify us and believe we are cleansed of our sin and made righteous? Do we let His righteousness guide us or our own fallen nature?

No and again no.

First, you can't use destroyed in the past tense and then use "might" destroy as proof.

Secondly, look around, do you see the works of devil being destroyed or do you see them at their apex.

[John Tavner]

In the days our Lord walked the earth He gave the very essence of worshipping God called the Sermon on the mount, those that heard said sermon and followed it, become

Peacemakers,
Mercyfull,
Non Judgemental,
Loved their friends and foes,
They became Christians.

There also were deeply religious men whom resented with great hatred and self righteous indignation the Roman and greek occupation and defilement of their land with all the pagan customs the Romans and greeks brought with them.
They were known as "Zealots" they did not listen to Jesus of Nazeraths Sermon apon the mount, and so in around 70 AD they arose up and rebelled against the Romans......
They say that over a million of them were slaughtered by the Romans, their Temple was destroyed and those taken captive were led out of Jerusalem as slaves, never to return to their beloved Israel again.................

If only they had listened to that Sermon apon the Mount....

The best preaching a Christian can do is not by loud and angry words, but by example, by ensuring that our own lives are spotless and by our kindness towards all our fellow men, that all can see our acts of charity which speak louder than words, by this some hearts will soften and will ask us why we are the way we are and hence we are given opportunities to share the message of Jesus with them.
Go read the multitude of accounts thru out the ages and of our present day of men and women whom were hardened in their sins and when shown kindness and mercy became Instruments of grace in the hands of the very God they had so fought against.

The questions for all we religious men are
"Are we Christians or Zealots?"
Are we builders of peace or are we destroyers of peace.

You confuse pacifism with Christianity

You realize the Jews were shocked because Jesus was claiming that their very thoughts would send them to hell?

What is Light that doesn't expose Darkness (not actual light)

Sermon on the Mount:

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
---------------

You're speaking half truths

Matthew 10:34-37 KJV
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

I don't think he is confusing them. Our intent ought to be covered by love, and not for the sake of calling out sin for sin's sake. It is why intent matters, it is why our heart matters when we do things.

The sword is not a physical sword, but one of truth. The truth will create variance. Truth does not need to be shared angrily. It does not need to be done haughtily. It is truth. It cuts it's own way. Rather we are to speak truth, in love (Eph 4:15) 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ—16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.
Too often, I include myself in this, I have spoken truth from a place of pride and condemnation. Christ's purpose was to save, not to condemn. If the eternal welfare and love for the person is not in our heart, we may need to commune with God more in order to obtain that so we do share truth in love. For works do nothing, but faith works through love Gal 5:6 ( For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.)

Obviously not an actual sword my guy

Im not talking to people....I'm talking about ideas.

If anyone treats people like shjt because they are gay...they are fakes.


IF THE SUBJECT IS SODOMY.....does one say nothing, so not hurt feelings?

You cannot teach , with fairness, the + without teaching the -

I'm as kind to a gay man as anyone else...its not in my nature to not be friends with those I'm around, but its my beliefs on behavior that is hated by the unbelievers. It is what divides. Hence the hate towards Christ

I apologize if it came off like I was saying you weren't kind to others or treated those who commit sodomic acts as less than. I wasn't my intent to accuse you.

I think if the subject is Sodomy, we should change the subject to Christ and help them develop faith in Him, The goodness of God will lead them to repentance. Telling someone who deosn't believe in God or know His nature in the first place that they are a sinner or that what they are doing is sin only causes them to develop a warped view of God. It is why Ammon taught the people who God was and the creation first rather than telling htem they were all murderers. We teach Christ crucified. We teach His love, and mercy and the power of belief in Him leads to transformation, of one being born again. If they already are a believe we can "snatch them out of the fire" but each case is different. Christ is the truth, not sin ( I know you know that, I'm not saying you don't, but what i am saying is I in the past did focus more on sin rather than Christ, and it is a tendency for most who profess to be Christian to do the same). It is only through Him we are saved. Sodomy is often an addictive behavior, much like other sexual sins, one needs Christ in order to overcome and have their heart changed in the first place. It is in giving or desiring to give their lives to Him that their hearts are pricked and hten we strengthen them in faith so they over come that desire. It is done by a case by case basis though. As for a large group, It would have to be done as the Spirit directs, I believe

[John Tavner]

Christ already destroyed the works of the devil- the question we have to ask and renew our minds daily over is whether or not we will let His grace do that to us daily and keep us in His kingdom or return to the Kingdom of the Prince of Air.

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Do we believe and do we let Him purify us and believe we are cleansed of our sin and made righteous? Do we let His righteousness guide us or our own fallen nature?

No and again no.

First, you can't use destroyed in the past tense and then use "might" destroy as proof.

Secondly, look around, do you see the works of devil being destroyed or do you see them at their apex.

Might is dependent upon our faith.

IN some yes, and in others no. It is our faith that determines the "might". Do you think God sent His Son just so "he "might" have success?" no He was successful, the might is completely and utterly dependent upon our faith and trust in Him. The truth sets us free. Destroy in this verse means to "loose" like to "unbind." If you believe, you will be saved, which means delivered, set free, unbound, lifted up, healed, made whole etc...

If you aren't seeing it in your own life, then we ought to pray and commune more with God to see what Gifts He has given us through His grace and mercy and receive them, rather than making our experience bigger than God's word. God loves us, He has given us a path, He has set us free, it is our choice whether or not we want to accept that freedom or remain bound. His love transcends the power of the devil. His might trancends the power of the devil and His grace, but we must commune and begin to see with an eye of faith, to dive into His word and seek revelation and illumination through His Holy Spirit and trust that He loves us so He will respond. For we are to bear the name of Christ. The Beauty of God and His mercy is that I personally know if we ask for Faith, God will give it to us, becaue HE is amazing.

[nightlight]

You confuse pacifism with Christianity

You realize the Jews were shocked because Jesus was claiming that their very thoughts would send them to hell?

What is Light that doesn't expose Darkness (not actual light)

Sermon on the Mount:

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
---------------

You're speaking half truths

Matthew 10:34-37 KJV
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

I don't think he is confusing them. Our intent ought to be covered by love, and not for the sake of calling out sin for sin's sake. It is why intent matters, it is why our heart matters when we do things.

The sword is not a physical sword, but one of truth. The truth will create variance. Truth does not need to be shared angrily. It does not need to be done haughtily. It is truth. It cuts it's own way. Rather we are to speak truth, in love (Eph 4:15) 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ—16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.
Too often, I include myself in this, I have spoken truth from a place of pride and condemnation. Christ's purpose was to save, not to condemn. If the eternal welfare and love for the person is not in our heart, we may need to commune with God more in order to obtain that so we do share truth in love. For works do nothing, but faith works through love Gal 5:6 ( For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.)

Obviously not an actual sword my guy

Im not talking to people....I'm talking about ideas.

If anyone treats people like shjt because they are gay...they are fakes.


IF THE SUBJECT IS SODOMY.....does one say nothing, so not hurt feelings?

You cannot teach , with fairness, the + without teaching the -

I'm as kind to a gay man as anyone else...its not in my nature to not be friends with those I'm around, but its my beliefs on behavior that is hated by the unbelievers. It is what divides. Hence the hate towards Christ

I apologize if it came off like I was saying you weren't kind to others or treated those who commit sodomic acts as less than. I wasn't my intent to accuse you.

I think if the subject is Sodomy, we should change the subject to Christ and help them develop faith in Him, The goodness of God will lead them to repentance. Telling someone who deosn't believe in God or know His nature in the first place that they are a sinner or that what they are doing is sin only causes them to develop a warped view of God. It is why Ammon taught the people who God was and the creation first rather than telling htem they were all murderers. We teach Christ crucified. We teach His love, and mercy and the power of belief in Him leads to transformation, of one being born again. If they already are a believe we can "snatch them out of the fire" but each case is different. Christ is the truth, not sin ( I know you know that, I'm not saying you don't, but what i am saying is I in the past did focus more on sin rather than Christ, and it is a tendency for most who profess to be Christian to do the same). It is only through Him we are saved. Sodomy is often an addictive behavior, much like other sexual sins, one needs Christ in order to overcome and have their heart changed in the first place. It is in giving or desiring to give their lives to Him that their hearts are pricked and hten we strengthen them in faith so they over come that desire. It is done by a case by case basis though. As for a large group, It would have to be done as the Spirit directs, I believe

Agree

But the large group is where our society has come to.

I teach my 5yearold that boys don't kiss boys. He asks "why?".

That is where the division comes, the "why?"

We'll never escape this question which causes persecution

It is why the meek are persecuted.

And to not answer the "why?"....is cowardice

It's almost 12.... heads-up

[TheChristian]

In the days our Lord walked the earth He gave the very essence of worshipping God called the Sermon on the mount, those that heard said sermon and followed it, become

Peacemakers,
Mercyfull,
Non Judgemental,
Loved their friends and foes,
They became Christians.

There also were deeply religious men whom resented with great hatred and self righteous indignation the Roman and greek occupation and defilement of their land with all the pagan customs the Romans and greeks brought with them.
They were known as "Zealots" they did not listen to Jesus of Nazeraths Sermon apon the mount, and so in around 70 AD they arose up and rebelled against the Romans......
They say that over a million of them were slaughtered by the Romans, their Temple was destroyed and those taken captive were led out of Jerusalem as slaves, never to return to their beloved Israel again.................

If only they had listened to that Sermon apon the Mount....

The best preaching a Christian can do is not by loud and angry words, but by example, by ensuring that our own lives are spotless and by our kindness towards all our fellow men, that all can see our acts of charity which speak louder than words, by this some hearts will soften and will ask us why we are the way we are and hence we are given opportunities to share the message of Jesus with them.
Go read the multitude of accounts thru out the ages and of our present day of men and women whom were hardened in their sins and when shown kindness and mercy became Instruments of grace in the hands of the very God they had so fought against.

The questions for all we religious men are
"Are we Christians or Zealots?"
Are we builders of peace or are we destroyers of peace.

You confuse pacifism with Christianity

You realize the Jews were shocked because Jesus was claiming that their very thoughts would send them to hell?

What is Light that doesn't expose Darkness (not actual light)

Sermon on the Mount:

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
---------------

You're speaking half truths

Matthew 10:34-37 KJV
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

Look us look to the Cross my brother, let us behold the One there hanging there in our stead, then we will understand, He was not just dieing and shedding His precious blood for us but for all our brothers and Sisters.
Be thankfull He has given us undeserved mercy, yes we sinners whoms religious works are like filthy rotten rags in His sight and let us beg our Saviour that the same mercy He has shown unto us might be shown and manifested unto those that do not know Him that they also might share in that grace of salvation with us.
Look at all the true Martyrs thru the last 2000 years, look at stephen as he was being stoned for his witness of our Lord......... Jesus he cried, have mercy apon them for they know not what they do......
Our Saviour Himself, whilst apon the cross, heard a mothers weepings, a thiefs cry and as the howling mob was jeering and mocking Him he called out " Father forgive them for they know not what they do"

Look us look to the example of the One whom hung apon the Cross, then pick up ones cross and follow Him, let not the mockers and scoffers, nor the waywardness of the word distract our eyes off the Saviour, but humbly bear our Cross and follow in our Masters footsteps.......

[Christianlee]

Interesting …

https://youtu.be/QXnh7tiROHY

[John Tavner]

I don't think he is confusing them. Our intent ought to be covered by love, and not for the sake of calling out sin for sin's sake. It is why intent matters, it is why our heart matters when we do things.

The sword is not a physical sword, but one of truth. The truth will create variance. Truth does not need to be shared angrily. It does not need to be done haughtily. It is truth. It cuts it's own way. Rather we are to speak truth, in love (Eph 4:15) 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ—16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.
Too often, I include myself in this, I have spoken truth from a place of pride and condemnation. Christ's purpose was to save, not to condemn. If the eternal welfare and love for the person is not in our heart, we may need to commune with God more in order to obtain that so we do share truth in love. For works do nothing, but faith works through love Gal 5:6 ( For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.)

Obviously not an actual sword my guy

Im not talking to people....I'm talking about ideas.

If anyone treats people like shjt because they are gay...they are fakes.


IF THE SUBJECT IS SODOMY.....does one say nothing, so not hurt feelings?

You cannot teach , with fairness, the + without teaching the -

I'm as kind to a gay man as anyone else...its not in my nature to not be friends with those I'm around, but its my beliefs on behavior that is hated by the unbelievers. It is what divides. Hence the hate towards Christ

I apologize if it came off like I was saying you weren't kind to others or treated those who commit sodomic acts as less than. I wasn't my intent to accuse you.

I think if the subject is Sodomy, we should change the subject to Christ and help them develop faith in Him, The goodness of God will lead them to repentance. Telling someone who deosn't believe in God or know His nature in the first place that they are a sinner or that what they are doing is sin only causes them to develop a warped view of God. It is why Ammon taught the people who God was and the creation first rather than telling htem they were all murderers. We teach Christ crucified. We teach His love, and mercy and the power of belief in Him leads to transformation, of one being born again. If they already are a believe we can "snatch them out of the fire" but each case is different. Christ is the truth, not sin ( I know you know that, I'm not saying you don't, but what i am saying is I in the past did focus more on sin rather than Christ, and it is a tendency for most who profess to be Christian to do the same). It is only through Him we are saved. Sodomy is often an addictive behavior, much like other sexual sins, one needs Christ in order to overcome and have their heart changed in the first place. It is in giving or desiring to give their lives to Him that their hearts are pricked and hten we strengthen them in faith so they over come that desire. It is done by a case by case basis though. As for a large group, It would have to be done as the Spirit directs, I believe

Agree

But the large group is where our society has come to.

I teach my 5yearold that boys don't kiss boys. He asks "why?".

That is where the division comes, the "why?"

We'll never escape this question which causes persecution

It is why the meek are persecuted.

And to not answer the "why?"....is cowardice

It's almost 12.... heads-up

I agree, we won't escape it. To be persecuted is the lot of a Christian, and I don't believe we should try and run from it. We shouldn't be ashamed of Christ. We should preach Him when asked why and invite them unto Christ and like you said, it will invite persecution, but persecution will only draw us closer to the Lord if we keep our focus on HIm.

[IcedKoffee]

In the days our Lord walked the earth He gave the very essence of worshipping God called the Sermon on the mount, those that heard said sermon and followed it, become

Peacemakers,
Mercyfull,
Non Judgemental,
Loved their friends and foes,
They became Christians.

There also were deeply religious men whom resented with great hatred and self righteous indignation the Roman and greek occupation and defilement of their land with all the pagan customs the Romans and greeks brought with them.
They were known as "Zealots" they did not listen to Jesus of Nazeraths Sermon apon the mount, and so in around 70 AD they arose up and rebelled against the Romans......
They say that over a million of them were slaughtered by the Romans, their Temple was destroyed and those taken captive were led out of Jerusalem as slaves, never to return to their beloved Israel again.................

If only they had listened to that Sermon apon the Mount....

The best preaching a Christian can do is not by loud and angry words, but by example, by ensuring that our own lives are spotless and by our kindness towards all our fellow men, that all can see our acts of charity which speak louder than words, by this some hearts will soften and will ask us why we are the way we are and hence we are given opportunities to share the message of Jesus with them.
Go read the multitude of accounts thru out the ages and of our present day of men and women whom were hardened in their sins and when shown kindness and mercy became Instruments of grace in the hands of the very God they had so fought against.

The questions for all we religious men are
"Are we Christians or Zealots?"
Are we builders of peace or are we destroyers of peace.

You confuse pacifism with Christianity

You realize the Jews were shocked because Jesus was claiming that their very thoughts would send them to hell?

What is Light that doesn't expose Darkness (not actual light)

Sermon on the Mount:

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
---------------

You're speaking half truths

Matthew 10:34-37 KJV
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

Look us look to the Cross my brother, let us behold the One there hanging there in our stead, then we will understand, He was not just dieing and shedding His precious blood for us but for all our brothers and Sisters.
Be thankfull He has given us undeserved mercy, yes we sinners whoms religious works are like filthy rotten rags in His sight and let us beg our Saviour that the same mercy He has shown unto us might be shown and manifested unto those that do not know Him that they also might share in that grace of salvation with us.
Look at all the true Martyrs thru the last 2000 years, look at stephen as he was being stoned for his witness of our Lord......... Jesus he cried, have mercy apon them for they know not what they do......
Our Saviour Himself, whilst apon the cross, heard a mothers weepings, a thiefs cry and as the howling mob was jeering and mocking Him he called out " Father forgive them for they know not what they do"

Look us look to the example of the One whom hung apon the Cross, then pick up ones cross and follow Him, let not the mockers and scoffers, nor the waywardness of the word distract our eyes off the Saviour, but humbly bear our Cross and follow in our Masters footsteps.......

I was a little confused by your prior post. We’re you saying that we should be careful as to how we go about calling out sin? Especially when doing it out of anger and not love.

Or are you saying that we shouldn’t be calling out sin at all?

[John Tavner]

In the days our Lord walked the earth He gave the very essence of worshipping God called the Sermon on the mount, those that heard said sermon and followed it, become

Peacemakers,
Mercyfull,
Non Judgemental,
Loved their friends and foes,
They became Christians.

There also were deeply religious men whom resented with great hatred and self righteous indignation the Roman and greek occupation and defilement of their land with all the pagan customs the Romans and greeks brought with them.
They were known as "Zealots" they did not listen to Jesus of Nazeraths Sermon apon the mount, and so in around 70 AD they arose up and rebelled against the Romans......
They say that over a million of them were slaughtered by the Romans, their Temple was destroyed and those taken captive were led out of Jerusalem as slaves, never to return to their beloved Israel again.................

If only they had listened to that Sermon apon the Mount....

The best preaching a Christian can do is not by loud and angry words, but by example, by ensuring that our own lives are spotless and by our kindness towards all our fellow men, that all can see our acts of charity which speak louder than words, by this some hearts will soften and will ask us why we are the way we are and hence we are given opportunities to share the message of Jesus with them.
Go read the multitude of accounts thru out the ages and of our present day of men and women whom were hardened in their sins and when shown kindness and mercy became Instruments of grace in the hands of the very God they had so fought against.

The questions for all we religious men are
"Are we Christians or Zealots?"
Are we builders of peace or are we destroyers of peace.

You confuse pacifism with Christianity

You realize the Jews were shocked because Jesus was claiming that their very thoughts would send them to hell?

What is Light that doesn't expose Darkness (not actual light)

Sermon on the Mount:

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
---------------

You're speaking half truths

Matthew 10:34-37 KJV
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

Look us look to the Cross my brother, let us behold the One there hanging there in our stead, then we will understand, He was not just dieing and shedding His precious blood for us but for all our brothers and Sisters.
Be thankfull He has given us undeserved mercy, yes we sinners whoms religious works are like filthy rotten rags in His sight and let us beg our Saviour that the same mercy He has shown unto us might be shown and manifested unto those that do not know Him that they also might share in that grace of salvation with us.
Look at all the true Martyrs thru the last 2000 years, look at stephen as he was being stoned for his witness of our Lord......... Jesus he cried, have mercy apon them for they know not what they do......
Our Saviour Himself, whilst apon the cross, heard a mothers weepings, a thiefs cry and as the howling mob was jeering and mocking Him he called out " Father forgive them for they know not what they do"

Look us look to the example of the One whom hung apon the Cross, then pick up ones cross and follow Him, let not the mockers and scoffers, nor the waywardness of the word distract our eyes off the Saviour, but humbly bear our Cross and follow in our Masters footsteps.......

I was a little confused by your prior post. We’re you saying that we should be careful as to how we go about calling out sin? Especially when doing it out of anger and not love.

Or are you saying that we shouldn’t be calling out sin at all?

I am speaking for him (not in any official capacity) and he can correct me if I am wrong or misunderstood what he was saying , but I believe he is calling out calling out sin for the sake of sin. I agree with that. We shouldn't be "calling out sin" we should be calling poeple unto Christ. In Calling poeple unto Christ sin may be exposed, but it isn't for sins sake, but more for the salvation of the soul. It is a nuance that I believe matters. IF we look at others as "sinners" rather than as Saints who happen to be lost, then we can focus more on the sin rather than on the purpose of Christ, which was to save. Calling out sin to a person in sin rarely resolves sin, but it is in PReaching Christ that the heart is chagned and desires to cast off sin. For instance most youth know htey shouldn't fornicate. Telling them they are fornicators isn't going to fix that in most cases, but in some it may if we snatch them out in love. In most cases they need to be built up in faith in Christ and realize what their identity is in Him. This will allow them to be strengthened nad overcome through Christ - His grace will take care of the rest.

In short if we view everyone as a sinner, our view is wrong. We aren't to view them as sinners, but as Sheep who have become lost. In the traditional sense when I hear "call out sin" I see "You are a sinner and you are going to hell" That is judgment. Rather than. Christ died so you might be saved. Turn to Him and live, cast off your old life and live, be set free. We all were condemned to death but for God and His mercy. Believe and receive. We intercede on their behalf "Forgive them Father, they don't know what htey are doing"

[The Red Pill]

It's important to understand that all these 24/7 narratives to be a pacifist, don't ever get angry, what would Jesus do...are all by design. So that the PTB can implement their NWO plans unopposed.

It's OK to have righteous indignation, it's OK to get angry enough about something to get you to act...to seek justice and truth. Christ turned over the tables, made a whip from rope. We have all heard of God's wrath...wrath is cold anger.

We are told to wear out our lives exposing evil and the hidden things of darkness. This is accomplished by speaking and teaching the truth about things and standing for truth. Defending what is right and truthful.

Not doing or saying anything...while evil is all around us...does NOT make us Chistlike...it makes us pathetic and weak.

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

This is what is happening right now...good men are doing nothing...while self righteously thinking they are being Christlike.

[John Tavner]

It's important to understand that all these 24/7 narratives to be a pacifist, don't ever get angry, what would Jesus do...are all by design. So that the PTB can implement their NWO plans unopposed.

It's OK to have righteous indignation, it's OK to get angry enough about something to get you to act...to seek justice and truth. Christ turned over the tables, made a whip from rope. We have all heard of God's wrath...wrath is cold anger.

We are told to wear out our lives exposing evil and the hidden things of darkness. This is accomplished by speaking and teaching the truth about things and standing for truth. Defending what is right and truthful.

Not doing or saying anything...while evil is all around us...does NOT make us Chistlike...it makes us pathetic and weak.

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

This is what is happening right now...good men are doing nothing...while self righteously thinking they are being Christlike.

It isn't until you obtain Charity. Otherwise you and I are doing it as a man. The righteousness of God is not found in the anger of man. James 1:20 19My beloved brothers, understand this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to anger, 20for man’s anger does not bring about the righteousness that God desires. 21Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and every expression of evil, and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save your souls.

We are so quick to use Jesus flipping over tables as our excuse to do what we want because something is "righteousn indignation." More often it is our own self-righteousness rather than the love for our fellow man that causes us to act this way. Hence - IF ye have not charity, ye are nothing. (1 Cor 13)

Do not be Overcome by evil, but over come evil with GOod- Paul Apostle of Christ (romans 12:21)