Wood burning Fireplace Suggestions

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Reluctant Watchman
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Wood burning Fireplace Suggestions

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

I would like to replace my old 40+ year old fireplace with something that is more fuel efficient. I'm curious if anyone has any suggestions between catalytic vs non-catalytic. I have a friend who recommends Blaze King fireplaces w/ a catalytic converter, but I've heard that cats aren't as reliable.

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Robin Hood
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Re: Wood burning Fireplace Suggestions

Post by Robin Hood »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: November 14th, 2022, 9:09 am I would like to replace my old 40+ year old fireplace with something that is more fuel efficient. I'm curious if anyone has any suggestions between catalytic vs non-catalytic. I have a friend who recommends Blaze King fireplaces w/ a catalytic converter, but I've heard that cats aren't as reliable.
Cats are unreliable.
Dogs less so

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mudflap
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Re: Wood burning Fireplace Suggestions

Post by mudflap »

beyond me. Blaze King is a good brand. Fisher's are good too. Make sure you do exactly what they say for chimney pipes in an existing brick chimney. Fire is hot. ;) Here's an article detailing conversion of fireplace to wood stove insert : https://inspectapedia.com/chimneys/Home ... Brewer.pdf
If you already have a fireplace, you can install an insert or hearth stove
without putting up a new chimney. But beware, there are considerable
drawbacks to this such as the potential for increased creosote deposits.
Increased volume and glazed creosote deposits will mean more frequent
and aggressive cleanings, often twice a year. Proper cleaning of the
chimney requires that the stove be removed to provide access to the
firebox and smoke chamber. Since these installations are harder to
service and therefore represent greater expense, the homeowner tends to
perform the required servicing less often, thereby creating a higher risk
of chimney fires. Freestanding stoves are both more efficient and easier
to maintain. Most freestanding woodstoves can be maintained by an
able homeowner with only a few special tools. This ease of
maintenance will lead to safer overall burning conditions.

If you already have or plan to vent a fireplace insert or hearth stove into
your fireplace chimney, we highly recommend installing a properly
sized chimney liner from the woodstove to the top of the chimney.

Keep in mind that your fireplace was designed to vent a large, hot fire
with plenty of air reaching the fire. When you install either an insert or
hearth stove into the fireplace, the burning characteristics of the
fireplace change. Instead of the hot, open fire normally found in a
fireplace you will generally have a slow smoldering fire in the
woodstove. In addition, the typical fireplace flue is usually much larger
than what the average woodstove requires, and this leads to greater
cooling of the flue gases and high rate of creosote buildup. This
buildup will often be in the form of a tarry creosote that is difficult to
remove from the chimney and yet poses a serious fire risk. Because of
these design considerations, it is unlikely you will be able to achieve the
efficiency your heater is designed to provide without a liner from the
stove to the top of the chimney.
Inspectopedia is a great resource for safety info. https://inspectapedia.com/index.php

I would say some kind of insert with a fan. I know Utah has some pretty tough restrictions on emissions, so you need a cat, but I don't know much about the recent laws.

For anyone else, B. Allan Mackie said a wood stove should be as centrally located as possible. Up against an exterior wall means you're heating that wall (and the outside of the wall) = throwing away your heat. Masonry heaters are extremely efficient, and heavy - you would need foundational support for it.

Finally, my buddy that builds log homes always pours a pad and installs radiant heating with pex. His home is almost right on the Appalachian trail, and he has an outdoor wood furnace and radiant heated floors.

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ParticleMan
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Re: Wood burning Fireplace Suggestions

Post by ParticleMan »

Liberator Rocket Heaters:
https://rocketheater.com/

However, I've never used or experienced one or know anyone who has.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Wood burning Fireplace Suggestions

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

To add a bit of cost info, the Blaze King, King 40 fireplace is just over $4k... I was a little shocked at the price tag.

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technomagus
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Re: Wood burning Fireplace Suggestions

Post by technomagus »

There are some nice new models that load from the top. Very convenient. I would not bother with a catalytic, it just becomes something that will break/wear out later on.
The one thing I wish I had done is get a bigger wood stove to be able to load more wood in. Buy the biggest you can afford. You can get a soapstone model (those you pay double for them), those radiate more heat. I would find a local dealer than can help you since they are usually your best support network.
Nowadays I would like to get a big pellet stove. Less mess, no babysitting of the fire. No worries about power outages, as I can just buy a $2-300 solar power battery.

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mudflap
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Re: Wood burning Fireplace Suggestions

Post by mudflap »

The prepper in me says no to pellets - what if you suddenly can't buy pellets? You always have to rely on someone else for your supply. Wood stove - you just need trees.

But people who have the pellet stoves like the automatic feeds some of them have.

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Cruiserdude
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Re: Wood burning Fireplace Suggestions

Post by Cruiserdude »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: November 14th, 2022, 9:09 am I would like to replace my old 40+ year old fireplace with something that is more fuel efficient. I'm curious if anyone has any suggestions between catalytic vs non-catalytic. I have a friend who recommends Blaze King fireplaces w/ a catalytic converter, but I've heard that cats aren't as reliable.
I heated a newer home full time round the clock all winter with no furnace assistance for a few years with a Pacific Energy manufactured Alderlea model. This was 15 years ago. It was a great on getting bang for your buck out of the firewood.
As someone mentioned above I'd avoid the catalytic technology clean burn stuff and get a stove that uses technology of double burn of the smoke for its 'clean burn technology'.
Blaze King is great too. Can't go wrong with either of those.

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Momma J
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Re: Wood burning Fireplace Suggestions

Post by Momma J »

I have been wondering about this too. Our old fireplace has a gianormous fire box. I climbed in ours to clean out the cobwebs and look for bird nests. It can hold a large cook pot on a stand.

That means I can load it up and build a roaring fire... But, I need to figure a fan of sorts to pump more of the heat into the house. As is, it is great for heating one room, which works for power outages.

Indy
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Re: Wood burning Fireplace Suggestions

Post by Indy »

I would stay away from the catalytic. Many of the companies that produce them do not have a warrenty on them. Talk to your local stove dealers and get info from them. I just sold my home which had a soapstone wood burner. I absolutely loved it. Heated my house for ten years and rarely used the funace. I puchased a home with a pacific energy stove. So far it is ok when using the blower, but not nearly as economical to use as a soapstone. One thing that I want to mention-it is hard to get a good stove right now. Our stove shop told us they could not even give us a price until a unit ships which would be 6 months or more. This issue may be solved soon because of the high interest rates slowing the building of new homes.

Letfreedumbring
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Re: Wood burning Fireplace Suggestions

Post by Letfreedumbring »

I have heard great things about Blaze King and also cooking stoves like Pioneer Princess or Elmira Fireview stove.

All are pricey $3500-7000 see if you can get a discount site with them or Amish stores since they are into that sort of thing. You can also get the cooking stoves with a reservoir for heating water while you cook while you heat the house
Last edited by Letfreedumbring on November 17th, 2022, 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Wood burning Fireplace Suggestions

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

mudflap wrote: November 14th, 2022, 11:10 am The prepper in me says no to pellets - what if you suddenly can't buy pellets? You always have to rely on someone else for your supply. Wood stove - you just need trees.

But people who have the pellet stoves like the automatic feeds some of them have.
Yeah, definitely not going the pellet route for emergency use.

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Re: Wood burning Fireplace Suggestions

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Cruiserdude wrote: November 14th, 2022, 11:28 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: November 14th, 2022, 9:09 am I would like to replace my old 40+ year old fireplace with something that is more fuel efficient. I'm curious if anyone has any suggestions between catalytic vs non-catalytic. I have a friend who recommends Blaze King fireplaces w/ a catalytic converter, but I've heard that cats aren't as reliable.
I heated a newer home full time round the clock all winter with no furnace assistance for a few years with a Pacific Energy manufactured Alderlea model. This was 15 years ago. It was a great on getting bang for your buck out of the firewood.
As someone mentioned above I'd avoid the catalytic technology clean burn stuff and get a stove that uses technology of double burn of the smoke for its 'clean burn technology'.
Blaze King is great too. Can't go wrong with either of those.
I found a local dealer for the Pacific Energy Alderlea T6. Really nice stove, double burn system, no cat. ($3700)

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mudflap
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Re: Wood burning Fireplace Suggestions

Post by mudflap »

I don't know how strict your laws are there, but mine is an antique replica ("Made in Taiwan", it says on the back), but that doesn't matter much to me - what mattered to me was that it was made out of cast iron, and that the cast iron had no cracks. Cast iron is known to be an excellent material for heat retention - these thin new stoves that cost thousands are made out of thick steel, but not cast iron. Granted, they are a lot more efficient, but they are also a lot more expensive.

Mine cost me $100. I restored it panel by panel and even replaced the mica in the window.

And the reason I didn't care how air tight it was, was because I knew I was installing about 26' of stove pipe in a straight shot through the roof. With that length of pipe, you get a very strong draft - "suction" - going through the air vents in the stove, so it doesn't really matter if the stove leaks a little. Now you don't want it to leak a lot, so I carefully caulked the seams with some stove cement. If it leaks a lot, you won't have a lot of control over the fire, which could be bad if you have a flare up.

Anyway, it doesn't heat the entire place, but it does heat the kitchen and most of the living room very well. If worst came to worst, and it was our only heat source, we'd just throw some mattresses down near the stove and some sleeping bags and it would be fine. And actually, I'm not sure if it works well or not - I haven't finished insulating the gables, so I'm probably getting a lot of drafts coming in from there. I will remedy that shortly.

FWIW, here's a photo of it the day I got it installed:
Image

wife built the brick hearth - it is also great for heat retention.

Chris
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Re: Wood burning Fireplace Suggestions

Post by Chris »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: November 14th, 2022, 9:09 am I would like to replace my old 40+ year old fireplace with something that is more fuel efficient. I'm curious if anyone has any suggestions between catalytic vs non-catalytic. I have a friend who recommends Blaze King fireplaces w/ a catalytic converter, but I've heard that cats aren't as reliable.
We have a vermont castings defiant stove, we like it but it was pricey.

bbrown
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Re: Wood burning Fireplace Suggestions

Post by bbrown »

Momma J wrote: November 14th, 2022, 1:19 pm I have been wondering about this too. Our old fireplace has a gianormous fire box. I climbed in ours to clean out the cobwebs and look for bird nests. It can hold a large cook pot on a stand.

That means I can load it up and build a roaring fire... But, I need to figure a fan of sorts to pump more of the heat into the house. As is, it is great for heating one room, which works for power outages.

Geometry of the fire box will do more to broadcast heat than most fans. Most commercial boxes rely on fans. Look up various styles if you can build yourself. A fire place can be very effective

A rockmass heater is also a very good option if you can build yourself. Needs foundation support And I’m not sure if the peoples republic of Utah will let you do it. Mine cost $850 or so to build and $500 or so of that was the double wall exit pipe. It works best with little pieces of wood. Where I’m at you could heat with straight windfall that is easily chopped up with an axe. It uses about 25% of the wood the wood stove used and doesn’t smoke, doesn’t make creasote, I can put my hand on the up pipe when it’s running. almost all the heat is captured and used in the house. Worth looking at.

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mudflap
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Re: Wood burning Fireplace Suggestions

Post by mudflap »

bbrown wrote: November 14th, 2022, 9:30 pm
Momma J wrote: November 14th, 2022, 1:19 pm I have been wondering about this too. Our old fireplace has a gianormous fire box. I climbed in ours to clean out the cobwebs and look for bird nests. It can hold a large cook pot on a stand.

That means I can load it up and build a roaring fire... But, I need to figure a fan of sorts to pump more of the heat into the house. As is, it is great for heating one room, which works for power outages.

Geometry of the fire box will do more to broadcast heat than most fans. Most commercial boxes rely on fans. Look up various styles if you can build yourself. A fire place can be very effective

A rockmass heater is also a very good option if you can build yourself. Needs foundation support And I’m not sure if the peoples republic of Utah will let you do it. Mine cost $850 or so to build and $500 or so of that was the double wall exit pipe. It works best with little pieces of wood. Where I’m at you could heat with straight windfall that is easily chopped up with an axe. It uses about 25% of the wood the wood stove used and doesn’t smoke, doesn’t make creasote, I can put my hand on the up pipe when it’s running. almost all the heat is captured and used in the house. Worth looking at.
These guys are the most recent ones I can think of that built a masonry heater in their log home - just like you are describing. Very efficient: https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q= ... home+build

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FrankOne
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Re: Wood burning Fireplace Suggestions

Post by FrankOne »

I have no idea what your current fireplace looks like, but if it were me, I'd find a good used wood stove that can be inserted into the space. Of course you may have to do some removal of the hearth or adding around it to make it look nice, but that's what I'd do.

the reasoning:

I've had several wood stoves in different locations (work and homes). The flue pipe pulls a draft due to the size and makes it all work correctly. The scavenging of heat is best done off of the flue pipe. They call it "heat reclamation". The brand "magic heat" is by far the best. I tried a different brand in my last one and it didn't have the cleaner rod function on it, so it loads with carbon so it doesn't conduct the heat well.

My opinion is that you could save a few thousand in the stove and put money into making a total inset stove look nice. But...maybe you don't have the room or? Also, there are some that have a double wall for a blower to put the heat out into the room.

just a few thoughts.

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mudflap
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Re: Wood burning Fireplace Suggestions

Post by mudflap »

Momma J wrote: November 14th, 2022, 1:19 pm I have been wondering about this too. Our old fireplace has a gianormous fire box. I climbed in ours to clean out the cobwebs and look for bird nests. It can hold a large cook pot on a stand.

That means I can load it up and build a roaring fire... But, I need to figure a fan of sorts to pump more of the heat into the house. As is, it is great for heating one room, which works for power outages.
I was just reading about this - the suggestion for pumping heat into the rest of the house is to place box fans on the floor in the doorways of the rooms you'd like to heat and blow the air TOWARDS the fire. The fans blow the cold air on the floor toward the fire, causing the warm air at the ceiling to flow into the room. I haven't tried this, but it makes sense.

Last night, I built a roaring fire in my "parlor stove", but was busy working outside all night so I couldn't enjoy the heat. outside temps were in the 40's and dropped into the 30's by the time I was done two hours later. Inside temp started out in the 40's, but by the time I left had reached into the high 60's. Even the bedrooms were in the 60's. Of course, I don't have drywall up yet, so the heat can flow wherever it wants. But I was impressed that little stove could make that much difference in such a huge house in so little time.

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Momma J
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Re: Wood burning Fireplace Suggestions

Post by Momma J »

mudflap wrote: November 17th, 2022, 6:17 am
I was just reading about this - the suggestion for pumping heat into the rest of the house is to place box fans on the floor in the doorways of the rooms you'd like to heat and blow the air TOWARDS the fire. The fans blow the cold air on the floor toward the fire, causing the warm air at the ceiling to flow into the room. I haven't tried this, but it makes sense.
I will try this this weekend and give my thoughts. I can see how it would work in theory.
mudflap wrote: November 17th, 2022, 6:17 am Last night, I built a roaring fire in my "parlor stove", but was busy working outside all night so I couldn't enjoy the heat. outside temps were in the 40's and dropped into the 30's by the time I was done two hours later. Inside temp started out in the 40's, but by the time I left had reached into the high 60's. Even the bedrooms were in the 60's. Of course, I don't have drywall up yet, so the heat can flow wherever it wants. But I was impressed that little stove could make that much difference in such a huge house in so little time.
That is impressive output of heat!

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Wood burning Fireplace Suggestions

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

I spent several hours yesterday watching demos on reburner vs catalytic stoves. As well as the longevity of catalytic stoves. I think we're gonna go with the Blaze King. The burn time on low for a catalytic stove is 2-3X that of a reburner. The catalytic doesn't have the pretty flame that the reburner does, but oh well... I can start a fire in the backyard if I want to see flame. :)

Given the cost of wood, this extra burn time would pay for itself. The other thing to consider is fuel scarcity. This stove (catalytic) would allow you to burn longer with finite resources.

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Cruiserdude
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Re: Wood burning Fireplace Suggestions

Post by Cruiserdude »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: December 1st, 2022, 10:48 am I spent several hours yesterday watching demos on reburner vs catalytic stoves. As well as the longevity of catalytic stoves. I think we're gonna go with the Blaze King. The burn time on low for a catalytic stove is 2-3X that of a reburner. The catalytic doesn't have the pretty flame that the reburner does, but oh well... I can start a fire in the backyard if I want to see flame. :)

Given the cost of wood, this extra burn time would pay for itself. The other thing to consider is fuel scarcity. This stove (catalytic) would allow you to burn longer with finite resources.
Can't go wrong with a Blaze King. 👍

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Re: Wood burning Fireplace Suggestions

Post by FoundMyEden »

We have a pacific energy stove. It is installed downstairs in the daylight basement, centered between three bedrooms the laundry, fallout, and living room. We have a stairway going upstairs to kitchen/family room, and two more bedrooms. Our stove can heat the whole 3700+ house, short our master bath…and our temps get down in the negative at times.
The only downside I have found is it isn’t as big as I would like. I do still have to stoke the fire a few more times a day but it’s still a work horse, so I’m happy.

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Re: Wood burning Fireplace Suggestions

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FoundMyEden wrote: December 1st, 2022, 11:58 am We have a pacific energy stove. It is installed downstairs in the daylight basement, centered between three bedrooms the laundry, fallout, and living room. We have a stairway going upstairs to kitchen/family room, and two more bedrooms. Our stove can heat the whole 3700+ house, short our master bath…and our temps get down in the negative at times.
The only downside I have found is it isn’t as big as I would like. I do still have to stoke the fire a few more times a day but it’s still a work horse, so I’m happy.
Yeah I loved our Pacific Energy Alderlea, wood burned forever in that thing it seemed like and I like the double burn system over the catalytic element .....And the size matters! You hear folks say 'I wish I would've got a bigger stove', but you NEVER hear folks say 'I wish I would've went with the smaller stove'

FoundMyEden
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Re: Wood burning Fireplace Suggestions

Post by FoundMyEden »

Cruiserdude wrote: December 1st, 2022, 12:04 pm
FoundMyEden wrote: December 1st, 2022, 11:58 am We have a pacific energy stove. It is installed downstairs in the daylight basement, centered between three bedrooms the laundry, fallout, and living room. We have a stairway going upstairs to kitchen/family room, and two more bedrooms. Our stove can heat the whole 3700+ house, short our master bath…and our temps get down in the negative at times.
The only downside I have found is it isn’t as big as I would like. I do still have to stoke the fire a few more times a day but it’s still a work horse, so I’m happy.
Yeah I loved our Pacific Energy Alderlea, wood burned forever in that thing it seemed like and I like the double burn system over the catalytic element .....And the size matters! You hear folks say 'I wish I would've got a bigger stove', but you NEVER hear folks say 'I wish I would've went with the smaller stove'
Yep exactly. It was already here and half installed when we bought our house unfinished, but we re-centered it when we finished the basement. We just lucked out w a good stove. Our next stove for our cabin will probably be the same but WILL be bigger so there will be no complaints here. ;)

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