President Nelson Is God's Prophet

[ransomme]

(Remember Noah cursing Ham, even though Noah made an honest mistake? That curse stuck to Ham regardless, because God had respect to the authority He gave Noah. Nelson has that authority too. So be careful how you speak. Word to the wise.)

Error....

Ham wasn't cursed, it was his son Canaan. Because seeing Noah's nakedness, is an idiom for sleeping with his wife. The product of that union, Canaan, received the curse, not Ham.

Both were cursed. As for sleeping with the wife: unlikely from the context.

As for the full JS quote, here it is:

The Prophet Joseph Smith added: “I referred to the curse of Ham for laughing at Noah, while in his wine, but doing no harm. Noah was a righteous man, and yet he drank wine and became intoxicated; the Lord did not forsake him in consequence thereof, for he retained all the power of his priesthood, and when he was accused by Canaan, he cursed him by the priesthood which he held, and the Lord had respect to his word, and the priesthood which he held, notwithstanding he was drunk, and the curse remains upon the posterity of Canaan until the present day” (History of the Church, 4:445–46).

Do you read the scriptures? Ham was not cursed, his son Canaan was.

Genesis 9
22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father’s nakedness.
24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
26 And he said, Blessed be the Lord God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant. (curse)
27 God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant. (curse)

To see nakedness is an idiomatic expression for intercourse. Learn your Bible please.

Example:
Leviticus 20
17 And if a man shall take his sister, his father’s daughter, or his mother’s daughter, and see her nakedness, and she see his nakedness; it is a wicked thing; and they shall be cut off in the sight of their people: he hath uncovered his sister’s nakedness; he shall bear his iniquity.

To see is parallel with to uncover (for the purpose of intercourse). Below to lie with is in parallel with to uncover nakedness.

(...continue)
18 And if a man shall lie with a woman having her sickness, and shall uncover her nakedness (genitals); he hath discovered her fountain, and she hath uncovered the fountain of her blood (vagina): and both of them shall be cut off from among their people.
19 And thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother’s sister, nor of thy father’s sister: for he uncovereth (have intercourse/incest) his near kin: they shall bear their iniquity.
20 And if a man shall lie with his uncle’s wife, he hath uncovered his uncle’s nakedness: they shall bear their sin; they shall die childless.
21 And if a man shall take his brother’s wife, it is an unclean thing: he hath uncovered his brother’s nakedness; they shall be childless.

Ezekiel 16
35 ¶ Wherefore, O harlot, hear the word of the Lord:
36 Thus saith the Lord God; Because thy filthiness was poured out, and thy nakedness discovered through thy whoredoms with thy lovers (SEX), and with all the idols of thy abominations, and by the blood of thy children, which thou didst give unto them;

Ezekiel 23
10 These discovered her nakedness (raped her): they took her sons and her daughters, and slew her with the sword: and she became famous among women; for they had executed judgment upon her.

[Obeone]

nd our church leaders have linked arm in arm with Satan's church and the counterfeit Zion AKA "Agenda 2030". That is irrefutable.

Satanic order of Illuminati was founded in 1830, just like the Church. Devil is a copycat.
But just because dates coincide, don't confuse the two.

[InfoWarrior82]

nd our church leaders have linked arm in arm with Satan's church and the counterfeit Zion AKA "Agenda 2030". That is irrefutable.


You do not understand keys and authority.

Satanic order of Illuminati was founded in 1830, just like the Church. Devil is a copycat.
But just because dates coincide, don't confuse the two.

I'm not claiming the founding of our church was satan's doing.

I am saying men, with their free agency, have chosen through their own volition to heed the arm of the flesh. This is why we are seeing them do the things they are doing now.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Their response to Covid was a symptom of a far greater systemic spiritual illness among the saints and their doctrine.

No, my friend, YOUR response to Covid "was a symptom of a far greater systemic spiritual illness" in you.

But God is merciful, if we repent and humble ourselves before Him.

I need it more than anyone else.

Truly baffling topic indeed.

[InfoWarrior82]

I can’t believe it took me so long to realize Obeone was just being sarcastic all this time.

LoL, you really think so?

[ransomme]

Their response to Covid was a symptom of a far greater systemic spiritual illness among the saints and their doctrine.

No, my friend, YOUR response to Covid "was a symptom of a far greater systemic spiritual illness" in you.

But God is merciful, if we repent and humble ourselves before Him.

I need it more than anyone else.

In order for the Brethren to repent they must apologize and ask for it. I can forgive them but I don't trust them anymore.

“Because of pride, and because of false teachers, and false doctrine, their Churches have become corrupted, and their Churches are lifted up; because of pride they are puffed up…they have all gone astray save it be a few, who are the humble followers of Christ; nevertheless, they are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men” (2 Ne. 28:12-14).

I try to be a humble follower and I know that I have to throw off the precepts of men that the Brethren continually teach. This is the painful witness that I have received.

[FoxMammaWisdom]

You don't look so good!

Not when I read crapoli like that!

[Reluctant Watchman]

I can’t believe it took me so long to realize Obeone was just being sarcastic all this time.

LoL, you really think so?

There's no other logical conclusion.

[FoxMammaWisdom]

These men have 0 scriptural fruits of prophets. I have to judge them accordingly because that's how Christ commanded us to judge men who claim to be prophets of God regardless of what office they were ordained.

Are you privy to all the private revelation they receive?

Oh, so you are telling me that the Lord commanded them to join with the United Nations and Klaus Schwab and Agenda 2030?

That's another test don't you see?! God is commanding us to form alliance with Schwab via the words of Nelson, to see if we are mind-F'd enough to do it, and if we do, we go to hell for that because we did what the prophet told us to do when we were commanded to follow the prophet, but only if he's not playing sick psychological games with people that could cost their exaltation and leading people to their death cuz God told him to - which should be apparent to righteous members who always follow but don't follow the prophet when it's a test, cuz we're supposed to know when to follow the prophet and when to not follow the prophet but always follow the prophet and never question the prophet and follow the spirit unless it says something different than the prophet but not when the prophet is wrong like God wanted him to be so God can play Hunger Games with his children. I think I got it right?

[FoxMammaWisdom]

I can’t believe it took me so long to realize Obeone was just being sarcastic all this time.

LoL, you really think so?

There's no other logical conclusion.

Good gravy I pray you guys are right.

[Letfreedumbring]

So how long can a member of the Q15 remain prophecy-hesitant and still remain up to date on the restoration booster schedule?

Asking for a 98 year old friend.

[logonbump]

These men have 0 scriptural fruits of prophets. I have to judge them accordingly because that's how Christ commanded us to judge men who claim to be prophets of God regardless of what office they were ordained.

Are you privy to all the private revelation they receive?

Oh, so you are telling me that the Lord commanded them to join with the United Nations and Klaus Schwab and Agenda 2030?

That's another test don't you see?! God is commanding us to form alliance with Schwab via the words of Nelson, to see if we are mind-F'd enough to do it, and if we do, we go to hell for that because we did what the prophet told us to do when we were commanded to follow the prophet, but only if he's not playing sick psychological games with people that could cost their exaltation and leading people to their death cuz God told him to - which should be apparent to righteous members who always follow but don't follow the prophet when it's a test, cuz we're supposed to know when to follow the prophet and when to not follow the prophet but always follow the prophet and never question the prophet and follow the spirit unless it says something different than the prophet but not when the prophet is wrong like God wanted him to be so God can play Hunger Games with his children. I think I got it right?

Not a test as much as us getting the king we deserve. Every time the people demanded a king, the Lord was grieved and they were cursed with the king they desired.
How can we deny that we have over our kingdom the king that best fits our wicked idolotrous natures.

[Being There]

"...follow the wise and thoughtful recommendations of medical experts and government leaders."

Could be interpreted follow ONLY "wise and thoughtful recommendations".

And inasmuch as there are none, don't follow them.

Thank you for that illustration of text without a context is a pretext to say anything you want. The context here is GET VACCINATED!

"Members of the Church are encouraged to safeguard themselves, their children, and their communities through vaccination."
"Receiving the vaccine today was part of our personal efforts to be good global citizens in helping to eliminate COVID-19 from the world."
"We know that protection from the diseases they cause can only be achieved by immunizing a very high percentage of the population."
"Available vaccines have proven to be both safe and effective."

That's why I said Q15 were dead wrong on covid. And God allowed it for a test.

Still their errors are not intentional, and God will forgive them.

In fact, as a test, God could have commanded them to "urge" us to get vax, just like the second prophet was commanded to urge the first to dinner as a test.

So for us it is simply a test: grow up, and follow the Spirit, because He outranks Q15 every time.

God didn't allow anything. SMH
it's not a test at all.


Doesn't matter how much you try to make them look bad -
by saying how wrong they were with the Vax - to then try to make them look good -
just with the excuse saying that they made an "honest error",
and that this is all just a test. lol. HOW RIDICULOUS !

You can come up with all the lame excuses you want to try to justify your false prophet
and fallen corrupt church, but it won't do ya any good; because there are too many awake now -
the ones that don't just blindly follow have woken up to the truth,
and see for themselves the rotten fruit of church leaders and the apostasy of the church.

You're a little bit confused and delusional,
and these scriptures are being fulfilled - by YOU - the confused,
along with your (church leaders "The Drunkards of Ephraim" )

"Jehovah’s people who are here addressed are chronically delusional
to the point of slumbering in a deep sleep. " *****


Isaiah 29

9 Procrastinate, and become bewildered;
preoccupy yourselves, until you cry for help.
Be drunk, but not with wine;
stagger, but not from strong drink.
10 ***** Jehovah has poured out on you
a spirit of deep sleep:
he has shut your eyes, the prophets;
he has covered your heads, the seers.


Jehovah’s people who are here addressed are chronically delusional
to the point of slumbering in a deep sleep.
Having procrastinated the day of their salvation by buying into dreamlike deceptions and fantasies, they grow “bewildered” and “cry for help” when Jehovah’s judgments come upon them.
As a people’s leaders generally reflect the people themselves, so all are spiritually “drunk” and “stagger”
instead of walking straight.
The prophets and seers—the people’s “eyes” and “heads”—can’t awaken them to spiritual realities because they themselves are intoxicated and asleep(Isaiah 28:7; 56:9-12).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Isaiah 28:7 talks about priests and prophets.

7 These too have indulged in wine and are giddy with strong drink: priests and prophets have gone astray through liquor.
They are intoxicated with wine and stagger because of strong drink;
they err as seers, they blunder in their decisions.
8 For all tables are filled with vomit; no spot is without excrement.

As the political and ecclesiastical leaderships of Jehovah’s people always appear on a par (Isaiah 3:2-4; 9:14-16; 24:2), so Ephraim’s “fat proud ones” (vv 1, 4) include its “priests,” “prophets,” and “seers” (Isaiah 56:10-12).
Intoxicated with the wine of self-deception (v 15), they “stray,” “err,” and “blunder” in their policies.
Instead of obtaining revelation from Jehovah (vv 9, 14, 16, 26, 29), they water down his word until it is ineffectual in empowering his people (vv 10-13; Isaiah 32:6). The best their spiritual feasts offer is “vomit”—partly digested food regurgitated for Jehovah’s people to consume.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The leaders of these people have misled them, and those who are led are confused” (Isaiah 9:13–16).

Isaiah 9

14 Therefore Jehovah will cut off from Israel
head and tail, palm top and reed, in a single day;
15 the elders or notables are the head,
the prophets who teach falsehoods, the tail.
16 The leaders of these people have misled them,
and those who are led are confused.

As in ancient times, the political and ecclesiastical leaders of Jehovah’s end-time people resemble one another.
Because of their wickedness, Jehovah “cuts off” both from his presence in “a single day”—his Day of Judgment (Isaiah 48:18-19). Because a people’s leaders reflect what the people are, the leaders’ misleading and confusing “these people”—Jehovah’s alienated people—constitutes an integral part of their punishment (cf. Isaiah 3:12).
***
Most reprehensible in the prophets who represent Jehovah to his people are the “falsehoods” or “lies” (seqer) they teach
(Isaiah 28:7; 29:10; 32:6-7).

A kind of delusion sets in among ecclesiastical leader as the people subscribe to the new narrative that merely perpetuates the status quo:
“These too have indulged in wine and are giddy with strong drink: priests and prophets have gone astray through liquor. They are intoxicated with wine and stagger because of strong drink; they err as seers, they blunder in their decisions. For all tables are filled with vomit; no spot is without excrement. Whom shall he give instruction?
Whom shall he enlighten with revelation? Weanlings weaned from milk, those just taken from the breast? For it is but line upon line, line upon line, precept upon precept, precept upon precept; a trifle here, a trifle there” (Isaiah 28:7–10);

“Their watchmen are altogether blind and unaware; all of them are but dumb watchdogs unable to bark, lolling seers fond of slumber.
***
Gluttonous dogs, and insatiable, such indeed are insensible shepherds.
They are all diverted to their own way, every one after his own advantage. ‘
Come, [they say,]let us get wine and have our fill of liquor. For tomorrow will be like today, only far better!’” (Isaiah 56:10–12).

When a spirit of self-sufficiency follows the people’s prosperity, spiritual standards grow lax and predatory practices prevail:
“How the faithful city has become a harlot! She was filled with justice; righteousness made its abode in her,
but now murderers.
Your silver has become dross, your wine diluted with water. Your rulers are renegades, accomplices of robbers: with one accord they love bribes and run after rewards; they do not dispense justice to the fatherless, nor does the widow’s case come before them” (Isaiah 1:21–23);
“The godless utter blasphemy; their heart ponders impiety: how to practice hypocrisy and preach perverse things concerning Jehovah, leaving the hungry soul empty, depriving the thirsty [soul]of drink. And rogues scheme by malevolent means and insidious devices to ruin the poor, and with false slogans and accusations to denounce the needy” (Isaiah 32:6–7).


The prophets in the Book of Mormon are speaking to us and have tried to warn us
but we - as a church have not heeded the warnings, and most members are being led away by -
"those wolves in sheep's clothing that would harm His sheep" (church leaders) dumb watch dogs)
Watchmen that don't watch but are asleep. Isaiah 56, 29
"Instead of warning of trouble as Jehovah’s Day of Judgment approaches,
they resemble wanton herdsmen who scatter the sheep and feed themselves off the fattest"

Isaiah 56
*** 8 Thus says my Lord Jehovah, who gathers up the outcasts of Israel: I will gather others to those already gathered.
9 All you wild beasts, you animals of the forest, come and devour!
10 Their watchmen are altogether blind and unaware; all of them are but dumb watchdogs
unable to bark, lolling seers fond of slumber.

Typifying the leaders of Jehovah’s people who make a Covenant with Death instead of a Covenant of Life (Isaiah 28:15, 18), or Jehovah’s wife who turns adulterous (Isaiah 1:21; 50:1), are certain “watchmen”—prophets and seers—who occupy the highest rung of society. Because they epitomize “dumb watchdogs” and “lolling seers,”

********** Jehovah replaces them with a righteous watchman—his servant—and other watchmen:
“Go and appoint a watchman who reports what he sees” (Isaiah 21:6); “I have appointed watchmen on your walls,
O Jerusalem, who shall not be silent day or night” (Isaiah 62:6).

As the job of Jehovah’s watchmen is to report to his people what they see and hear (Isaiah 21:10; 48:16), those who are blind and unaware see and hear little of consequence and fail to warn his people: “Who is blind but my own servant, or so deaf as the messenger I have sent? Who is blind like those I have commissioned, as uncomprehending as the servant of Jehovah—seeing much but not giving heed, with open ears hearing nothing?” (Isaiah 42:19-20. The final fate of the blind watchmen, literally and figuratively, is to be devoured by wild beasts—a covenant curse (Isaiah 5:29; 15:9; 51:8).

***
11 Gluttonous dogs, and insatiable, such indeed are insensible shepherds.
They are all diverted to their own way, every one after his own advantage.
12 Come, they say, let us get wine and have our fill of liquor. For tomorrow will be like today, only far better!

Instead of portraying these watchmen as ones who feed and protect the flock (Isaiah 5:17; 40:11; 63:11), the imagery of shepherds as dogs characterizes them as predators and unclean animals (Psalm 22:16; 1 Kings 14:11; Matthew 7:6).
Instead of warning of trouble as Jehovah’s Day of Judgment approaches, they resemble wanton herdsmen who scatter the sheep and feed themselves off the fattest (Jeremiah 23:1-2; 50:6-7; Ezekiel 34:1-8).
Instead of serving as proxy saviors to Jehovah’s people under the terms of the Davidic Covenant (Isaiah 37:35; 63:17; 65:8), they look out for themselves.

Word links round out the shepherds’ recriminatory state: “These too have indulged in wine and are giddy with strong drink: priests and prophets have gone astray through liquor. They are intoxicated with wine and stagger because of strong drink; they err as seers, they blunder in their decisions” (Isaiah 28:7); “Procrastinate, and become bewildered; preoccupy yourselves, until you cry for help. Be drunk, but not with wine; stagger, but not from strong drink.
Jehovah has poured out on you a spirit of deep sleep: he has shut your eyes, the prophets;
he has covered your heads, the seers” (Isaiah 29:9-10).

*** from verse 8
A hard fact of Isaiah’s end-time scenario is that it is not those who appear to be God’s people (the church)
whom God saves in the end, but those who are rejected by the majority.
These “outcasts” suffer “reproach” and “ridicule,” are “excluded” from God’s people, and, like God’s servant who gathers them, are “despised” and “abhorred” until God reverses their circumstances (Isaiah 49:7–8; 51:7; 60:15–16; 61:7, 9; 66:5–8).
In the end, those who are excluded and betrayed by their own people, are gathered with God’s righteous remnant: “Thus says my Lord Jehovah, who gathers up the outcasts of Israel: ‘I will gather others to those already gathered’” (Isaiah 56:3, 8).


from above
**********
“Proclaim it aloud without restraint; raise your voice like a trumpet!
Declare to my people their transgressions, to the house of Jacob its sins”
(Isaiah 58:1).

"“watchmen” who prophesy in the day of power, when God “bares his holy arm in the eyes of all nations” (Isaiah 51:9–11; 52:8, 10). They stand on the watchtower day and night, are “most vigilant” and “fully alert” to approaching dangers, and report what they “see” and “hear” (Isaiah 21:6–10). They herald Jehovah’s coming to reign on the earth and prepare God’s people for their end-time exodus out of Babylon to Zion (Isaiah 52:7–8, 11–12; compare 48:20–21). They “raise their voice as one” at the time Jehovah comes (Isaiah 52:8).
They call upon God without ceasing for the welfare of his people and don’t keep silent day or night (Isaiah 62:6–7)."

[Letfreedumbring]

With so many people dropping dead, the solution may be a form of spiritual communism.

Where prophets pretend to prophesy and the elect pretend to follow them.
For the elect hear his voice and do not fall for the celestial pys-op - D&C 29:7

The gospel is the same as it ever was.

[TwochurchesOnly]

These men have 0 scriptural fruits of prophets. I have to judge them accordingly because that's how Christ commanded us to judge men who claim to be prophets of God regardless of what office they were ordained.

Are you privy to all the private revelation they receive?

Oh, so you are telling me that the Lord commanded them to join with the United Nations and Klaus Schwab and Agenda 2030?

That's another test don't you see?! God is commanding us to form alliance with Schwab via the words of Nelson, to see if we are mind-F'd enough to do it, and if we do, we go to hell for that because we did what the prophet told us to do when we were commanded to follow the prophet, but only if he's not playing sick psychological games with people that could cost their exaltation and leading people to their death cuz God told him to - which should be apparent to righteous members who always follow but don't follow the prophet when it's a test, cuz we're supposed to know when to follow the prophet and when to not follow the prophet but always follow the prophet and never question the prophet and follow the spirit unless it says something different than the prophet but not when the prophet is wrong like God wanted him to be so God can play Hunger Games with his children. I think I got it right?

[TwochurchesOnly]

So how long can a member of the Q15 remain prophecy-hesitant and still remain up to date on the restoration booster schedule?

Asking for a 98 year old friend.

[gruden2.0]

Prophet Joseph Smith said,

I will give you a key that will never rust, if you will stay with the majority of the Twelve Apostles, and the records of the Church, you will never be led astray.

"Never"means never.

Here's a really interesting essay on that quote:
https://faithfulsaints.com/a-key-that-will-never-rust/

Some salient quotes:

The keys of the priesthood will remain on the earth for the “last time.” There will not be a re-restoration. The keys have been restored, and they are here to stay. Does that mean that they will always be with whomever they are given to, no matter what?

The Lord warned Joseph that he could lose the keys of the priesthood, declaring:

“And the keys of the mysteries of the kingdom shall not be taken from my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., through the means I have appointed, while he liveth, inasmuch as he obeyeth mine ordinances.” (D&C 64:5)

“For unto you I have given the keys of the kingdom and if you transgress not they shall never be taken from you.” (1832 Revelation to Joseph Smith)

The requirement is clear. Joseph was promised that the keys would remain with him for the rest of his life, on the condition that Joseph would not “transgress,” and would obey (keep/perform) all of the ordinances.

The Lord has promised that the keys and priesthood will remain on the earth—but being able to maintain them as an individual entirely depends on one’s actions. No one’s agency is removed simply because they received a calling. We as individuals are not off the hook from seeking and gaining a testimony of who holds the keys, based on the principles laid out in the revelations. We are responsible for our own righteousness and actions, and cannot ride on anyone else’s coattails into the presence of God.

The keys are dependent on a calling of God and keeping the laws of God. They are not dependent upon one’s sustained position. For as Joseph explained:

“it is necessary to know who holds the keys of power, and who does not, or we may be likely to be deceived.” (History of the Church, vol. 6 pg. 251)

This is a “key that will never rust.”

The 'rust' quote not a legit quote from Joseph Smith. Again, a self-serving statement from the Utah leadership. Joseph Smith had organized things such that the quorum of the 12 had ZERO authority within the stakes of Zion. The apostles were to operate outside the stakes to build Zion. If one understands this, then one will immediately realize how suss that quote is.

But by all means, Obeone, keep spouting all your nonsense. The more I see you misquote scripture and post fabricated quotes without any retrospection tells me you're not a serious truth seeker, but just a defender of the status quo who loves making ominous condemnations. I see this will never end with you until it finally does. Who enjoys arguing for the sake of arguing?

[Luke]

Q15 are neither foolish nor wicked. They are simply mistaken about some lesser things.
In the most important things, i.e. things pertaining to eternal salvation, they are impeccable.

This is just simply not true. They don’t teach the Principles of the Gospel which Joseph Smith taught were salvific.

Yeah, plural marriage again. Get over it. It is not essential at this point. This is why God allowed it to end. But looking forward to it being restored in 10 years or so, because it is a good thing.

Not just Plural Marriage, although it is essential and never stopped being essential. Also Second Anointing, for instance.

[investigator]

If you will stay with the majority of the Twelve Apostles, and the records of the Church, you will never be led astray.

Joseph Smith, Jr.

Joseph only said that for that particular man, that he would never be led astray. But we live in a later era with other leaders. No such promise for us.

Prophet Joseph Smith said,

I will give you a key that will never rust, if you will stay with the majority of the Twelve Apostles, and the records of the Church, you will never be led astray.

"Never" means never.

“I will give you a key that will never rust — if you will stay with the majority of the Twelve Apostles, and the records of the Church, you will never be led astray.”

The source is listed as a statement by William G. Nelson, published in the Young Woman’s Journal. This statement was published in 1906, 62 years after the death of Joseph Smith.


William G. Nelson, the source of this statement, was born in Jefferson County, Illinois, June 10, 1831; associated with the Saints in Illinois and in the West, where he served as a ward bishop and a member of the high council at Oxford, Idaho. The facts surrounding this quote are as follows:

Nelson appears to have been in a position as a boy to hear Joseph Smith make this statement in Nauvoo.
Nelson would have been 13 years, 2 weeks, and 3 days old when Joseph Smith was killed.
Nelson published the quote at least 62 years after hearing it, when his age was approximately 75 years.
Nelson makes no other statement of source, circumstances when, where and to whom Joseph said it, whether Nelson recorded it in writing, or how he remembers the wording precisely. It is therefore hearsay, and not a historical record. There is no contemporary collaborating source.

This statement was published in an adolescent periodical magazine among other faith-promoting and folksy stories about many topics. Essentially, the Mormon Seventeen. It is neither doctrine nor scripture.
Some difficulties with what is taught are as follows:

Depending on whose account you read, the majority of the twelve were in open rebellion to Joseph Smith in Kirtland.
The records of the church were recorded by the official church historian, John Whitmer, who took them with him when he left the church, requiring a new history to be written. Therefore to stay with the records of the church at that time would have required staying with Whitmer in Missouri, outside the church.

If the "majority of the twelve" doctrine was openly taught by Joseph Smith, there would have been no leadership succession crisis at Joseph's death. The church members would have known to follow the twelve. But no such thing happened.

Also, if this doctrine were known to Brigham Young at the time of the succession crisis, he could have argued that Joseph taught the members to stay with the majority of the twelve. But Brigham made no such argument.

https://www.totheremnant.com/2014/07/h ... art-2.html

[Letfreedumbring]

Why does LDS gospel doctrine always appear like a policy debate? Where any shred of evidence from any lds and sometimes non-lds source beats the person without such evidence and is used to prove their point.

Lost in all of this "We are right and can never lead you astray so you have to believe everything we say" narrative is the full range of agency available to each member and the accessibility of direct communication with God through his express agent on the earth - to clarify with the more sure word of prophecy and to definitively declare thus saith the Lord.

Instead it feels like a bunch of lawyers in opening arguments who defend the privilege of having prophets without ever using them. Am I missing something? Or have we been sold a Chinese luxury high rise that doesn't really exist but we keep paying on it because it says to on paper?

[Letfreedumbring]

If the "majority of the twelve" doctrine was openly taught by Joseph Smith, there would have been no leadership succession crisis at Joseph's death. The church members would have known to follow the twelve. But no such thing happened.

Also, if this doctrine were known to Brigham Young at the time of the succession crisis, he could have argued that Joseph taught the members to stay with the majority of the twelve. But Brigham made no such argument.

https://www.totheremnant.com/2014/07/h ... art-2.html

This is outstanding research by both the sharer and the original preparer. Thanks.

[Atrasado]

Joining the church with Babylon and secret combinations will have spiritual consequences for the members. It's already started long before any of us were born. Now it's just being thrown in our faces.

Have you not read what the Lord said?

 D&C 82
22 And now, verily I say unto you, and this is wisdom, make unto yourselves friends with the mammon of unrighteousness, and they will not destroy you.
23 Leave judgment alone with me, for it is mine and I will repay. ...

Are you wiser than Him?

Making "friends" is to join satan's church?

You gave a good quote:

“It is not intended that in making friends of the ‘mammon of unrighteousness’ that the brethren were to partake with them in their sins; to receive them to their bosoms, intermarry with them and otherwise come down to their level. They were to so live that peace with their enemies might be assured. They were to treat them kindly, be friendly with them as far as correct and virtuous principles would permit, but never to swear with them or drink and carouse with them. If they could allay prejudice and show a willingness to trade with and show a kindly spirit, it might help to turn them away from their bitterness. Judgment was to be left with the Lord” (Church History and Modern Revelation, 2 vols. [1953], 1:323).

Q15 are doing that.

By recommending that members of the Church take poison?!? Good grief.

[thaabit]

We are promised by God that this is the Final Dispensation, and that His Kingdom is here to stay.
Men may fall, but the Kingdom will not.

Learn this.

The Church is the Kingdom. By fighting it you fight God and will feel His hand.

Be wise, what can I say more?

The church is not the kingdom.
https://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2018 ... ngdom.html

[thaabit]

2030 is when Zion will be restored and the City founded.

Not too long now.

As for what God told them, I did not ask. But I do know that they do hold the keys and authority of God, because God told me so, and I believe Him.

That's a bold claim. Would be amazing if true.

[Chris]

Prophet Joseph Smith said,

I will give you a key that will never rust, if you will stay with the majority of the Twelve Apostles, and the records of the Church, you will never be led astray.

"Never"means never.

Here's a really interesting essay on that quote:
https://faithfulsaints.com/a-key-that-will-never-rust/

Some salient quotes:

The keys of the priesthood will remain on the earth for the “last time.” There will not be a re-restoration. The keys have been restored, and they are here to stay. Does that mean that they will always be with whomever they are given to, no matter what?

The Lord warned Joseph that he could lose the keys of the priesthood, declaring:

“And the keys of the mysteries of the kingdom shall not be taken from my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., through the means I have appointed, while he liveth, inasmuch as he obeyeth mine ordinances.” (D&C 64:5)

“For unto you I have given the keys of the kingdom and if you transgress not they shall never be taken from you.” (1832 Revelation to Joseph Smith)

The requirement is clear. Joseph was promised that the keys would remain with him for the rest of his life, on the condition that Joseph would not “transgress,” and would obey (keep/perform) all of the ordinances.

The Lord has promised that the keys and priesthood will remain on the earth—but being able to maintain them as an individual entirely depends on one’s actions. No one’s agency is removed simply because they received a calling. We as individuals are not off the hook from seeking and gaining a testimony of who holds the keys, based on the principles laid out in the revelations. We are responsible for our own righteousness and actions, and cannot ride on anyone else’s coattails into the presence of God.

The keys are dependent on a calling of God and keeping the laws of God. They are not dependent upon one’s sustained position. For as Joseph explained:

“it is necessary to know who holds the keys of power, and who does not, or we may be likely to be deceived.” (History of the Church, vol. 6 pg. 251)

This is a “key that will never rust.”

The 'rust' quote not a legit quote from Joseph Smith. Again, a self-serving statement from the Utah leadership. Joseph Smith had organized things such that the quorum of the 12 had ZERO authority within the stakes of Zion. The apostles were to operate outside the stakes to build Zion. If one understands this, then one will immediately realize how suss that quote is.

But by all means, Obeone, keep spouting all your nonsense. The more I see you misquote scripture and post fabricated quotes without any retrospection tells me you're not a serious truth seeker, but just a defender of the status quo who loves making ominous condemnations. I see this will never end with you until it finally does. Who enjoys arguing for the sake of arguing?

The rust quote is legit and has many sources in the church and also from some non members.

Yall are sleeping through your last remaining moments to repent and come back into the fold before it is to late.

You are missing so much, the prophet is the prophet and soon all the world will see it. There are miracles coming where people will line up from morning to night to be baptised. The church population will be over 100 million in just a few short years.

Things are about to get biblical for good and bad. Sad most of you are going to miss it