Holland in Helsinki

[ransomme]

In case anyone is interested, I got this link from a friend. Finland conference Nov. 13, 2022

https://youtu.be/KhCPhh_5To0

[endlessQuestions]

“In difficult times the church might not be able to provide everything that it has in the past”.

Sorry, plebs, no relief for you.

[HVDC]

“In difficult times the church might not be able to provide everything that it has in the past”.

Sorry, plebs, no relief for you.

Setting up the planned purge of their too white, too CIS membership.

You can bend the knee.

But you can't successfully scrape the White off.

I know you are trying.

Welcome to my world.

Pariahland.

Sir H

[ransomme]

“In difficult times the church might not be able to provide everything that it has in the past”.

Sorry, plebs, no relief for you.

yeah, they took a $100mil hit in their fund, so they are down to $1.2 billion

[Niemand]

"Holland in Helsinki"

Sounds like a Cold War thriller. Where's the young Michael Caine when you need him?

[Pazooka]

Super depressing talk by Holland, almost devoid of any mention of Jesus.

You can do whatever you want with the 90 years of your 100-year life? Just give God His 10% cut? Not a true principle.

[Lizzy60]

Super depressing talk by Holland, almost devoid of any mention of Jesus.

You can do whatever you want with the 90 years of your 100-year life? Just give God His 10% cut? Not a true principle.

Did he really say that? Yes, giving God 10%, whether it’s our money or our lives, is completely false. Does he not believe in consecration? Does he not understand that God wants ALL of us — our time, our money, and our very hearts? We give Him this by dedicating our lives to living as close to what we can discern that He wants for us. Our careers are not our own. Our spouses and children are not our own. The way we use any resources He provides for us is not our own. Everything belongs to Him. If it is not His, then it belongs to the devil and should be discarded and avoided at all costs. Only God can reveal to us what He would have us do here in this probation.

I am not surprised he said very little about Christ, our Eternal Father, the Creator of Heaven and Earth and all things therein.

[ransomme]

This was Stockholm
https://youtu.be/taZzM9W00eo

This was the YA/YSA agreed on Helsinki
https://youtube.com/watch?v=HunTgQKUHkI&feature=share

[Pazooka]

Super depressing talk by Holland, almost devoid of any mention of Jesus.

You can do whatever you want with the 90 years of your 100-year life? Just give God His 10% cut? Not a true principle.

Did he really say that? Yes, giving God 10%, whether it’s our money or our lives, is completely false. Does he not believe in consecration? Does he not understand that God wants ALL of us — our time, our money, and our very hearts? We give Him this by dedicating our lives to living as close to what we can discern that He wants for us. Our careers are not our own. Our spouses and children are not our own. The way we use any resources He provides for us is not our own. Everything belongs to Him. If it is not His, then it belongs to the devil and should be discarded and avoided at all costs. Only God can reveal to us what He would have us do here in this probation.

I am not surprised he said very little about Christ, our Eternal Father, the Creator of Heaven and Earth and all things therein.

No joke, that is what he said. And then he closes with a bizarre story about a son of an alcoholic abusive father who went to church once because he needed something in his life, but someone said something unkind to him and he left and never came back and somehow that was the reason he, himself, became an alcoholic abuser. He finally turned his life around in his old age and his biggest regrets were not having passed the Sacrament and not being able to tell his posterity stories from his mission. ??????? His regrets weren’t that he didn’t have God in his life for all those years?

The symptoms Holland is manifesting fit the underlying illness.

[Ebenezer]

“In difficult times the church might not be able to provide everything that it has in the past”.

I don’t think this applies only to temporal needs.

[ransomme]

Super depressing talk by Holland, almost devoid of any mention of Jesus.

You can do whatever you want with the 90 years of your 100-year life? Just give God His 10% cut? Not a true principle.

Did he really say that? Yes, giving God 10%, whether it’s our money or our lives, is completely false. Does he not believe in consecration? Does he not understand that God wants ALL of us — our time, our money, and our very hearts? We give Him this by dedicating our lives to living as close to what we can discern that He wants for us. Our careers are not our own. Our spouses and children are not our own. The way we use any resources He provides for us is not our own. Everything belongs to Him. If it is not His, then it belongs to the devil and should be discarded and avoided at all costs. Only God can reveal to us what He would have us do here in this probation.

I am not surprised he said very little about Christ, our Eternal Father, the Creator of Heaven and Earth and all things therein.

No joke, that is what he said. And then he closes with a bizarre story about a son of an alcoholic abusive father who went to church once because he needed something in his life, but someone said something unkind to him and he left and never came back and somehow that was the reason he, himself, became an alcoholic abuser. He finally turned his life around in his old age and his biggest regrets were not having passed the Sacrament and not being able to tell his posterity stories from his mission. ??????? His regrets weren’t that he didn’t have God in his life for all those years?

The symptoms Holland is manifesting fit the underlying illness.

Yeah it seemed really weird to me. After the meeting, I didn't hear anyone talk about the speeches that were given. It was like they never happened.

[Lizzy60]

Who gives a drawn-out description of the fathers in our lives, including the fathers in our homes, our spouses’ fathers, the fathers of our wards, and even the fathers of our stakes, and how we may need to rely on these fathers even more in the future as times become more difficult.............AND NEVER MENTIONS OUR FATHER IN HEAVEN?!?!

I am speechless.

[Alexander]

This was Stockholm
https://youtu.be/taZzM9W00eo

This was the YA/YSA agreed on Helsinki
https://youtube.com/watch?v=HunTgQKUHkI&feature=share

At about the 1:23:00 mark, Holland recounts this story from President Mckay, in which he went into the mountains to pray as a boy "going up like Enos", spending the entire day expecting a spiritual manifestation or "gaining of a testimony". Holland states, "well if you know the story, you know he didn't succeed. And even if you didn't know the story, you probably guessed, which is why I'm telling the story, that he tried and he didn't get a manifestation."
Holland continues and describes how Mckay didn't get anything up on that mountain; it wasn't until Mckay's mission (which he went on out of duty and respect for his parents and ward) that he felt like he "obtained a testimony".

Holland's moral of the story is that nobody he knows has obtained something as expected like that in the scriptures, of a great manifestation. Everybody he knows has "gotten a testimony" just by doing their church duties.


So basically "don't go into the mountains or the grove to pray; you won't experience God that way".

[Lizzy60]

This was definitely a talk designed to guilt the young men and young women into staying in the church. They have to use fear, shame and guilt because they don’t believe the pure doctrine of Christ is enough.

Their desperation is showing.

[Pazooka]

“In difficult times the church might not be able to provide everything that it has in the past”.

I don’t think this applies only to temporal needs.

He kinda made it sound like it did apply to the temporal because he talked about how they’re not able to help a whole lot in the Ukraine.

I also get weirdness when he tells the congregation, “I get to do what I want…unless President Nelson walks in.”

[tribrac]

“In difficult times the church might not be able to provide everything that it has in the past”.

Sorry, plebs, no relief for you.

They have been working that management policy since after the 2008 crash. Pay attention to the messages in the self reliance classes they pushed so hard.

Heard some comments attributed to COPB that suggests they think the members were spoiled thinking the church would help them.

It's a difficult topic, I have mixed strong feelings. In 2008 the Stk I was living in was full of 4th or 5th generation member families, and most lived on the edge of poverty (US style). The stake told the bishops 1 mortgage payment or 2 rental payments then the members had to figure out on their own. Mortgage payments were only 5-8 hundred .

Meanwhile at my work I heard of wards in Draper helping people pay $5,000 mortgages. Enough to keep 6-8 families in their homes in my area.

It was and is hard for me, it was about this time that I perceived a differentiation between "the church" meaning the Corporation and the members. Until that time I had naively believed we were one in the same.

Shame on the members for thinking that hundreds of hours of volunteering at church meetings, church welfare assignments, pulling weeds, picking rocks, bottling applesauce, making furniture was anything more than a donation of time. It was not a buy in to a community, or paying it forward, or laying up a store for a future time of need.

[Alexander]

"By the way, I have a lot of those couples who name their kids after me, just because there wouldn't have been any kids if it wasn't for me."
-Holland

"I am not an idiot"
-Holland

[BuriedTartaria]

“In difficult times the church might not be able to provide everything that it has in the past”.

Sorry, plebs, no relief for you.

Religious institutions are failing. This church will go broke if it goes woke. It'll probably go broke regardless. The excessive temple building is to keep up appearances of health and growth. There's what, 40 temples being built and/or announced to be built? There is no way an organization that has been locked in at 5 millionish active/believing members for the past 20 years with no growth on that is in need of that many more new temples.

[ransomme]

"By the way, I have a lot of those couples who name their kids after me, just because there wouldn't have been any kids if it wasn't for me."
-Holland

"I am not an idiot"
-Holland

He's always joking, but I want to hear the will of God and be taught like Paul taught the early saints. Such drivel helps no one, and it's distracting.

[HVDC]

"By the way, I have a lot of those couples who name their kids after me, just because there wouldn't have been any kids if it wasn't for me."
-Holland

"I am not an idiot"
-Holland

WTH?

Dementia?

Sir H

[TwochurchesOnly]

“In difficult times the church might not be able to provide everything that it has in the past”.

Sorry, plebs, no relief for you.

Such a load of bs

[Bronco73idi]

“In difficult times the church might not be able to provide everything that it has in the past”.

Sorry, plebs, no relief for you.

They have been working that management policy since after the 2008 crash. Pay attention to the messages in the self reliance classes they pushed so hard.

Heard some comments attributed to COPB that suggests they think the members were spoiled thinking the church would help them.

It's a difficult topic, I have mixed strong feelings. In 2008 the Stk I was living in was full of 4th or 5th generation member families, and most lived on the edge of poverty (US style). The stake told the bishops 1 mortgage payment or 2 rental payments then the members had to figure out on their own. Mortgage payments were only 5-8 hundred .

Meanwhile at my work I heard of wards in Draper helping people pay $5,000 mortgages. Enough to keep 6-8 families in their homes in my area.

It was and is hard for me, it was about this time that I perceived a differentiation between "the church" meaning the Corporation and the members. Until that time I had naively believed we were one in the same.

Shame on the members for thinking that hundreds of hours of volunteering at church meetings, church welfare assignments, pulling weeds, picking rocks, bottling applesauce, making furniture was anything more than a donation of time. It was not a buy in to a community, or paying it forward, or laying up a store for a future time of need.

Honestly I didn’t know the church helped this much. I always thought of it as “bishop storehouse”. I have never needed it, someone always needs a mechanic

[Niemand]

“In difficult times the church might not be able to provide everything that it has in the past”.

Sorry, plebs, no relief for you.

Religious institutions are failing. This church will go broke if it goes woke. It'll probably go broke regardless. The excessive temple building is to keep up appearances of health and growth. There's what, 40 temples being built and/or announced to be built? There is no way an organization that has been locked in at 5 millionish active/believing members for the past 20 years with no growth on that is in need of that many more new temples.

Wealth transfer too.

[TwochurchesOnly]

“In difficult times the church might not be able to provide everything that it has in the past”.

I don’t think this applies only to temporal needs.

He kinda made it sound like it did apply to the temporal because he talked about how they’re not able to help a whole lot in the Ukraine.

I also get weirdness when he tells the congregation, “I get to do what I want…unless President Nelson walks in.”

Yes- weird - creepy

[TwochurchesOnly]

In case anyone is interested, I got this link from a friend. Finland conference Nov. 13, 2022

https://youtu.be/KhCPhh_5To0

Wondering if his trip there was planned for distraction from the big
Meeting in Egypt/ blasphemous 10 commandment conference ...