Hugh Nibley explains the five laws covenanted to in the Temple

[Niemand]

The truth is that you have used many, many, many products that were developed using fetal cell lines. You probably still do and don't even know it.

That is not the fault of the end user, it is the result of the sick minds that were used to develop these products. God will judge those who have done this ungodly and unholy thing.

It is something that should never have happened in the first place. Babies had to die to produce these products. That is more in line with Abaddon and Moloch than Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ.

By promoting this knowingly, you are putting yourself under condemnation and need to repent of it.

Deuteronomy 18.10 says

There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire

This refers to those who knowingly sacrifice their children to a greater cause, or in ancient times to avert crop failure and disease. The story of Abraham also condemns those who sacrifice their offspring as these is not seen as acceptable to God. God provides a sheep instead, and later Jesus Christ, to symbolise the end of human sacrifice.

Colossians 3.5

Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

Aborted babies are usually the result of fornication and uncleanness, and a lack of affection, i.e. being unwilling to raise children. "Covetousness" is relevant as many people who get pregnant and abort don't want it to impinge on their finances or interfere with their career. "Concupiscence" refers to a state of lust, the predominant emotion that is encouraged by much of mass media.

This is not the fault of the foetuses themselves, of course, but the abortion is usually the fruit of such actions.

The use of dead babies, who cannot consent to anything, to produce cell lines for decades on end is clearly unclean in the sight of God, much as those who passed their children through the fire to appease pagan gods, is something which is clearly unclean to this day.

Luke 17

Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come! It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

As long as you promote this behaviour knowingly and encourage it, you have this millstone around your neck. We are supposed to light the world not darken it, and use our innocent dead children as spare parts for medicine. That is down there with the darkest pagan religions.

Time for you to repent and go back to God on this matter.

Promoting it? Since when it pointing out a fact "promoting it"? Would you rather I lie and pretend that there are fetal cells in vaccines when there aren't? Would you rather I lie and say that COVID vaccines are the only products in the world tested using fetal cell lines? Would you rather I lie and pretend you haven't eaten, drank, and smudged things on your body that have also been tested and developed using fetal cell lines?

I think it is hypocritical to whinge about President Nelson having "pushed vaccines" with baby bits in them when a) no vaccine has fetal cells in them, b) only the Johnston & Johnston vaccine used fetal cell lines during its testing and development, c) President Nelson didn't force you to get vaccinated, and d) you're probably eating, drinking, or wearing a product developed using fetal cell lines right now. This is one of the blood and sins of our generation. That's just an ugly fact.

I'll have to break this to you gently, but it wasn't just J&J that used foetal cell lines. All the major ones did. It's widespread and made acceptable.

God judges us on our knowledge. When you know about these things it is an entirely different scenario. You do know now.

There are many products that have been developed by immoral means. We've probably all used computer programs or bought music/books etc which were plagiarised from other sources. That does not make us culpable in those crimes if we didn't know it. Bill Gates is notorious for this kind of thing and it appears Elon Musk is too.

Also, please desist from calling these vaccines. Vaccines contain inert viral material, these are something quite different.

[innocentoldguy]

The truth is that you have used many, many, many products that were developed using fetal cell lines. You probably still do and don't even know it.

That is not the fault of the end user, it is the result of the sick minds that were used to develop these products. God will judge those who have done this ungodly and unholy thing.

It is something that should never have happened in the first place. Babies had to die to produce these products. That is more in line with Abaddon and Moloch than Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ.

By promoting this knowingly, you are putting yourself under condemnation and need to repent of it.

Deuteronomy 18.10 says

There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire

This refers to those who knowingly sacrifice their children to a greater cause, or in ancient times to avert crop failure and disease. The story of Abraham also condemns those who sacrifice their offspring as these is not seen as acceptable to God. God provides a sheep instead, and later Jesus Christ, to symbolise the end of human sacrifice.

Colossians 3.5

Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

Aborted babies are usually the result of fornication and uncleanness, and a lack of affection, i.e. being unwilling to raise children. "Covetousness" is relevant as many people who get pregnant and abort don't want it to impinge on their finances or interfere with their career. "Concupiscence" refers to a state of lust, the predominant emotion that is encouraged by much of mass media.

This is not the fault of the foetuses themselves, of course, but the abortion is usually the fruit of such actions.

The use of dead babies, who cannot consent to anything, to produce cell lines for decades on end is clearly unclean in the sight of God, much as those who passed their children through the fire to appease pagan gods, is something which is clearly unclean to this day.

Luke 17

Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come! It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

As long as you promote this behaviour knowingly and encourage it, you have this millstone around your neck. We are supposed to light the world not darken it, and use our innocent dead children as spare parts for medicine. That is down there with the darkest pagan religions.

Time for you to repent and go back to God on this matter.

Promoting it? Since when it pointing out a fact "promoting it"? Would you rather I lie and pretend that there are fetal cells in vaccines when there aren't? Would you rather I lie and say that COVID vaccines are the only products in the world tested using fetal cell lines? Would you rather I lie and pretend you haven't eaten, drank, and smudged things on your body that have also been tested and developed using fetal cell lines?

I think it is hypocritical to whinge about President Nelson having "pushed vaccines" with baby bits in them when a) no vaccine has fetal cells in them, b) only the Johnston & Johnston vaccine used fetal cell lines during its testing and development, c) President Nelson didn't force you to get vaccinated, and d) you're probably eating, drinking, or wearing a product developed using fetal cell lines right now. This is one of the blood and sins of our generation. That's just an ugly fact.

I'll have to break this to you gently, but it wasn't just J&J that used foetal cell lines. All the major ones did. It's widespread and made acceptable.

God judges us on our knowledge. When you know about these things it is an entirely different scenario. You do know now.

There are many products that have been developed by immoral means. We've probably all used computer programs or bought music/books etc which were plagiarised from other sources. That does not make us culpable in those crimes if we didn't know it. Bill Gates is notorious for this kind of thing and it appears Elon Musk is too.

Also, please desist from calling these vaccines. Vaccines contain inert viral material, these are something quite different.

I am aware of this. The difference is that Moderna and Pfizer used fetal cell line HEK 293 during the research and development phase whereas Johnston & Johnston used PER.C6 in the production and manufacturing stage. I didn't clarify what I was saying, so thanks for pointing this out.

While I agree with your definition of a vaccine, "vaccines" are what the world is calling the pointless mRNA shots, so when in Rome...

Good luck avoiding products developed with fetal cell lines. They are literally everywhere. Lip balms, skin creams, flavorings, foods, drinks, medications, etc.

[Niemand]

Good luck avoiding products developed with fetal cell lines. They are literally everywhere. Lip balms, skin creams, flavorings, foods, drinks, medications, etc.

We were warned this would happen:

In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days, I have warned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation.

There is an urban legend that McDonalds uses human meat. I don't believe this is the case, but if it were, then it wouldn't make it right, would it? (The notion that there is very much meat at all in McDonald's burgers is ludicrous and that's before we get to the more extreme allegation.) Let's say for argument's sake that you saw something that proved this to you... like people being fed into a mincer, would you still endorse it?

Romans 2

the righteous judgment of God; who will render to every man according to his deeds:

They will get theirs. Your job is not to encourage it or endorse it, which you are.

[ransomme]

The trouble with the mainstream LDS is that "God's will" is supposed to be whatever the FP says. Like promoting the notorious "Godsend" of 2021 which has poisoned our society in more ways than one. Do we really want to consecrate everything to Davos? Seems that the world is trying to do so and the LDS by a more indirect route.

Not a dig at you, Luke, I know some of your basic views on this matter and think we agree on at least some things.

Just to make sure I'm understanding your position: Are you saying that obeying the prophet is "trouble"? Once you separate the Lord from his prophet, you've started jogging down the road to apostasy, my friend.

We are all supposed to be prophets.

[ransomme]

The trouble with the mainstream LDS is that "God's will" is supposed to be whatever the FP says. Like promoting the notorious "Godsend" of 2021 which has poisoned our society in more ways than one. Do we really want to consecrate everything to Davos? Seems that the world is trying to do so and the LDS by a more indirect route.

Not a dig at you, Luke, I know some of your basic views on this matter and think we agree on at least some things.

Just to make sure I'm understanding your position: Are you saying that obeying the prophet is "trouble"? Once you separate the Lord from his prophet, you've started jogging down the road to apostasy, my friend.

1) Do you support Davos?

Be specific.

2) I'd be more concerned about anyone pushing a shot developed from foetal cell lines.* Do you think it was godly and holy for President Nelson to suggest we inject ourselves with dead baby parts? If you support this, maybe it is you that is in apostasy, my friend. It is an abortion in more ways than one. If Jesus' NT followers could fall into Apostasy after meeting him in person, so can RMN who has apparently never met him.

There are so many things wrong with this paragraph:

1. There are no aborted fetal cells in any of the vaccines. Johnson & Johnson used "fetal cell lines," which are laboratory-grown, during their testing and development, but the vaccine doesn't contain fetal cell lines or fetal cells. These same fetal cell lines are also used in the testing and development of acetaminophen, ibuprofen, aspirin, and to treat Alzheimer's and hypertension. Did you bother to read the site you're using as a reference in your comment?

2. President Nelson didn't tell you to get vaccinated. He said that he had been praying for a vaccine, considered the fact that one arrived a "godsend," and then told members to consult the Holy Ghost and their medical professionals to see if getting vaccinated was right for them.

3. Meeting Christ in person is NOT what gives people a testimony of the truthfulness of the gospel. That can only be obtained through the Holy Ghost. This is why denying Christ isn't an unpardonable sin but denying the Holy Ghost is.

I gained a clear witness that these things were a precursor to the Mark.

* https://www.nationalgeographic.com/scie ... 9-vaccines

By completely failing to understand your own citation?

2. You don't understand position and influence do you. If someone in s position of authority says to roll up your sleeve and be a good global citizen just like me. That is telling them. Add to that, that they forced patriarchs, missionaries and who knows who else to get vaxxed.

3. The point Scott meeting Christ is about being a special witness or not

[innocentoldguy]

Just to make sure I'm understanding your position: Are you saying that obeying the prophet is "trouble"? Once you separate the Lord from his prophet, you've started jogging down the road to apostasy, my friend.

1) Do you support Davos?

Be specific.

2) I'd be more concerned about anyone pushing a shot developed from foetal cell lines.* Do you think it was godly and holy for President Nelson to suggest we inject ourselves with dead baby parts? If you support this, maybe it is you that is in apostasy, my friend. It is an abortion in more ways than one. If Jesus' NT followers could fall into Apostasy after meeting him in person, so can RMN who has apparently never met him.

There are so many things wrong with this paragraph:

1. There are no aborted fetal cells in any of the vaccines. Johnson & Johnson used "fetal cell lines," which are laboratory-grown, during their testing and development, but the vaccine doesn't contain fetal cell lines or fetal cells. These same fetal cell lines are also used in the testing and development of acetaminophen, ibuprofen, aspirin, and to treat Alzheimer's and hypertension. Did you bother to read the site you're using as a reference in your comment?

2. President Nelson didn't tell you to get vaccinated. He said that he had been praying for a vaccine, considered the fact that one arrived a "godsend," and then told members to consult the Holy Ghost and their medical professionals to see if getting vaccinated was right for them.

3. Meeting Christ in person is NOT what gives people a testimony of the truthfulness of the gospel. That can only be obtained through the Holy Ghost. This is why denying Christ isn't an unpardonable sin but denying the Holy Ghost is.

I gained a clear witness that these things were a precursor to the Mark.

* https://www.nationalgeographic.com/scie ... 9-vaccines

By completely failing to understand your own citation?

2. You don't understand position and influence do you. If someone in s position of authority says to roll up your sleeve and be a good global citizen just like me. That is telling them. Add to that, that they forced patriarchs, missionaries and who knows who else to get vaxxed.

3. The point Scott meeting Christ is about being a special witness or not

2. Nobody forced anybody to do anything. "Influence" is just a justification for misdirected rage.

3. Do you know what that process entails, exactly? If not, then it's kind of silly for us to argue about it, don't you think?

[MikeMaillet]

What the vaccine contains is irrelevant. What is relevant is that our so-called Prophet never advocated for the use of the Priesthood to heal someone who may be ill. The man who supposedly holds all of the keys of the Priesthood and its power on earth and who demands that I call him a Prophet, Seer and Revelator before I am permitted in the Lord's house decided that the arm of flesh would be more effective than God's own power.

One possibility that seems to escape most is that we are not living according to the covenant that was extended to the Gentiles wherein everything would be in common and we would be taking care of the poor and oppressed. By not living the covenant we expose ourselves to covenant curses such as illness, disease, pestilence, war, famine, poverty, plagues... The Gentiles rejected the covenant and we will now be forced to endure the penalties for doing so. The cure for COVID and all other ills is found in the first chapter of Isaiah (below).

Mike

14) Your monthly and regular meetings
my soul detests.
They have become a burden on me;
I am weary of putting up with them.

15) When you spread forth your hands,
I will conceal my eyes from you;
though you pray at length, I will not hear—
your hands are filled with blood.

16) Wash yourselves clean:
remove your wicked deeds
from before my eyes;
cease to do evil.

17) Learn to do good: demand justice,
stand up for the oppressed;
plead the cause of the fatherless,
appeal on behalf of the widow.

18) Come now, let us put it to the test,
says Jehovah:
though your sins are as scarlet,
they can be made white as snow;
though they have reddened as crimson,
they may become white as wool.

19) If you are willing and obey,
you shall eat the good of the land.

20) But if you are unwilling and disobey,
you shall be eaten by the sword.
By his mouth Jehovah has spoken it.

[ransomme]

1) Do you support Davos?

Be specific.

2) I'd be more concerned about anyone pushing a shot developed from foetal cell lines.* Do you think it was godly and holy for President Nelson to suggest we inject ourselves with dead baby parts? If you support this, maybe it is you that is in apostasy, my friend. It is an abortion in more ways than one. If Jesus' NT followers could fall into Apostasy after meeting him in person, so can RMN who has apparently never met him.

There are so many things wrong with this paragraph:

1. There are no aborted fetal cells in any of the vaccines. Johnson & Johnson used "fetal cell lines," which are laboratory-grown, during their testing and development, but the vaccine doesn't contain fetal cell lines or fetal cells. These same fetal cell lines are also used in the testing and development of acetaminophen, ibuprofen, aspirin, and to treat Alzheimer's and hypertension. Did you bother to read the site you're using as a reference in your comment?

2. President Nelson didn't tell you to get vaccinated. He said that he had been praying for a vaccine, considered the fact that one arrived a "godsend," and then told members to consult the Holy Ghost and their medical professionals to see if getting vaccinated was right for them.

3. Meeting Christ in person is NOT what gives people a testimony of the truthfulness of the gospel. That can only be obtained through the Holy Ghost. This is why denying Christ isn't an unpardonable sin but denying the Holy Ghost is.

I gained a clear witness that these things were a precursor to the Mark.

* https://www.nationalgeographic.com/scie ... 9-vaccines

By completely failing to understand your own citation?

2. You don't understand position and influence do you. If someone in s position of authority says to roll up your sleeve and be a good global citizen just like me. That is telling them. Add to that, that they forced patriarchs, missionaries and who knows who else to get vaxxed.

3. The point of seeing Christ is about being a special witness or not

2. Nobody forced anybody to do anything. "Influence" is just a justification for misdirected rage.

3. Do you know what that process entails, exactly? If not, then it's kind of silly for us to argue about it, don't you think?

2) fine, let's say it more accurately, they exhibited unrighteous dominion to push people to vax

3) It's not about the process, it's the definition of being a Special Witness.

[logonbump]

The trouble with the mainstream LDS is that "God's will" is supposed to be whatever the FP says. Like promoting the notorious "Godsend" of 2021 which has poisoned our society in more ways than one. Do we really want to consecrate everything to Davos? Seems that the world is trying to do so and the LDS by a more indirect route.

Not a dig at you, Luke, I know some of your basic views on this matter and think we agree on at least some things.

Just to make sure I'm understanding your position: Are you saying that obeying the prophet is "trouble"? Once you separate the Lord from his prophet, you've started jogging down the road to apostasy, my friend.

Which jogging you have done when you and the Olde Guard began to conflate the responsibilities and role of president of a corporation with the Lord and his servant, the prophet Joseph Smith.

Joseph Smith is the prophet of this dispensation.

[innocentoldguy]

The trouble with the mainstream LDS is that "God's will" is supposed to be whatever the FP says. Like promoting the notorious "Godsend" of 2021 which has poisoned our society in more ways than one. Do we really want to consecrate everything to Davos? Seems that the world is trying to do so and the LDS by a more indirect route.

Not a dig at you, Luke, I know some of your basic views on this matter and think we agree on at least some things.

Just to make sure I'm understanding your position: Are you saying that obeying the prophet is "trouble"? Once you separate the Lord from his prophet, you've started jogging down the road to apostasy, my friend.

Which jogging you have done when you and the Olde Guard began to conflate the responsibilities and role of president of a corporation with the Lord and his servant, the prophet Joseph Smith.

Joseph Smith is the prophet of this dispensation.

He was the first one, yes. Russell M. Nelson is the current prophet, seer, and revelatory for the church.

I think an old quote by George Q. Cannon is especially important for the Reject Church Leaders crowd here.

Speaking of the Lord, he said, "It is his privilege to choose whom he pleases. The man he wants preserved is preserved . . . and if men whom he choose are fallible, that is his business. He requires on our part obedience to his will as it is made manifest through the man whom he has chosen."

It is impossible to draw near unto the savior while rejecting the prophet he has called to instruct you. You can pretend, of course, but it will always be a fiction you tell yourself if you choose to disregard the Lord's prophets.

[innocentoldguy]

The trouble with the mainstream LDS is that "God's will" is supposed to be whatever the FP says. Like promoting the notorious "Godsend" of 2021 which has poisoned our society in more ways than one. Do we really want to consecrate everything to Davos? Seems that the world is trying to do so and the LDS by a more indirect route.

Not a dig at you, Luke, I know some of your basic views on this matter and think we agree on at least some things.

Just to make sure I'm understanding your position: Are you saying that obeying the prophet is "trouble"? Once you separate the Lord from his prophet, you've started jogging down the road to apostasy, my friend.

We are all supposed to be prophets.

No. Not in the way you're suggesting.

[innocentoldguy]

Be specific.



There are so many things wrong with this paragraph:

1. There are no aborted fetal cells in any of the vaccines. Johnson & Johnson used "fetal cell lines," which are laboratory-grown, during their testing and development, but the vaccine doesn't contain fetal cell lines or fetal cells. These same fetal cell lines are also used in the testing and development of acetaminophen, ibuprofen, aspirin, and to treat Alzheimer's and hypertension. Did you bother to read the site you're using as a reference in your comment?

2. President Nelson didn't tell you to get vaccinated. He said that he had been praying for a vaccine, considered the fact that one arrived a "godsend," and then told members to consult the Holy Ghost and their medical professionals to see if getting vaccinated was right for them.

3. Meeting Christ in person is NOT what gives people a testimony of the truthfulness of the gospel. That can only be obtained through the Holy Ghost. This is why denying Christ isn't an unpardonable sin but denying the Holy Ghost is.



By completely failing to understand your own citation?

2. You don't understand position and influence do you. If someone in s position of authority says to roll up your sleeve and be a good global citizen just like me. That is telling them. Add to that, that they forced patriarchs, missionaries and who knows who else to get vaxxed.

3. The point of seeing Christ is about being a special witness or not

2. Nobody forced anybody to do anything. "Influence" is just a justification for misdirected rage.

3. Do you know what that process entails, exactly? If not, then it's kind of silly for us to argue about it, don't you think?

2) fine, let's say it more accurately, they exhibited unrighteous dominion to push people to vax

3) It's not about the process, it's the definition of being a Special Witness.

I think you're thinking about this entirely the wrong way. You're looking for yet another justification to reject the Lord's prophet without ever considering why the Lord may have supported the mRNA vaccines himself. Lockdowns weren't really an issue in red states, but they were crippling in blue states and tyrannical countries, like Canada and Australia. We now know that these restrictions were the cause of depression and other mental health issues, developmental issues for children, etc. We also know that the left's Stasi were going around in many blue states, and countries like Canada and Australia, arresting religious leaders for worshipping God. Perhaps the Lord knew that the destruction caused by government tyranny would be worse for his saints than the risk of dying from a flawed, fake vaccine.

I KNOW from the scriptures that the Lord has commanded me to follow the prophet. I KNOW from the scriptures what the consequences of not following the prophet will be. I don't know to any degree why he may have supported the mRNA vaccines or had his prophet comment on them, so I'm going to choose to do the things I KNOW and let the Lord worry about the rest. May I suggest you do the same?

[Luke]

The trouble with the mainstream LDS is that "God's will" is supposed to be whatever the FP says. Like promoting the notorious "Godsend" of 2021 which has poisoned our society in more ways than one. Do we really want to consecrate everything to Davos? Seems that the world is trying to do so and the LDS by a more indirect route.

Not a dig at you, Luke, I know some of your basic views on this matter and think we agree on at least some things.

Just to make sure I'm understanding your position: Are you saying that obeying the prophet is "trouble"? Once you separate the Lord from his prophet, you've started jogging down the road to apostasy, my friend.

We are all supposed to be prophets.

No. Not in the way you're suggesting.

Yes, exactly in the way he is suggesting…

If you can show some satisfactory evidence as to why not, then I’ll hear it.

[Niemand]

tyrannical countries, like Canada and Australia.

Canada and Australia, tyrannical? Three years ago, I would never have dreamt of calling them such. That is why recent events were a nasty shock. They had an image as laid back, easy going societies that were not even as uptight as the USA. (Although Canada had been going overboard with the gender identity stuff.) These are two countries i would have said were less authoritarian than Latin America or German-speaking countries... and two countries I would have considered emigrating to in the past.

If I think of Canadian or Australian tyranny in the past it was not of this nature. In Canada I would think of how French speakers or natives had been treated, not the general population. In Oz, much the same, i.e. how natives had been treated, maybe some attacks on miners or the reputation of Bjelke-Petersen... but neither country would be the first to spring to mind as tyrannical.

[innocentoldguy]

Just to make sure I'm understanding your position: Are you saying that obeying the prophet is "trouble"? Once you separate the Lord from his prophet, you've started jogging down the road to apostasy, my friend.

We are all supposed to be prophets.

No. Not in the way you're suggesting.

Yes, exactly in the way he is suggesting…

If you can show some satisfactory evidence as to why not, then I’ll hear it.

I just gave you satisfactory evidence. Once you reject the Lord's prophets, you've gone astray. How many times does the Lord have to condemn people in every volume of scripture for doing this before you ask yourself, "Is rejecting the prophet really in my best interest?"

[innocentoldguy]

tyrannical countries, like Canada and Australia.

Canada and Australia, tyrannical? Three years ago, I would never have dreamt of calling them such. That is why recent events were a nasty shock. They had an image as laid back, easy going societies that were not even as uptight as the USA. (Although Canada had been going overboard with the gender identity stuff.) These are two countries i would have said were less authoritarian than Latin America or German-speaking countries... and two countries I would have considered emigrating to in the past.

If I think of Canadian or Australian tyranny in the past it was not of this nature. In Canada I would think of how French speakers or natives had been treated, not the general population. In Oz, much the same, i.e. how natives had been treated, maybe some attacks on miners or the reputation of Bjelke-Petersen... but neither country would be the first to spring to mind as tyrannical.

I have lived in both Australia and Canada, and before 2020 I would have agreed. How times have changed.