Poll: LDS church is true, but everyone is false?

[Chris]

In essence, I understand "true" to refer to priesthood authority, and "living" to mean continuing revelation to and direction through the Lord's servants.

How do you know if someone is truly serving God?
Isn’t talk cheap - “faith without works dead”?
By their fruits ye shall know them.

Deuteronomy 14:28-29 (conveniently ignored in lds curriculums) states that tithing collectors are to give at least 1/3 of TITHES to those in need. Christ asked those who can, to give much more.

While we are often pressured and shamed into giving “honest tithes,” church leaders keep money dark and secret, though Oaks did admit no tithes go to the poor. Funds intended for the poor go to the corporate empire of mormon leaders and we have no clue or say in how it’s spent. We do know the church had some fancy malls built, and a list of greedy wordly companies using the name of Jesus Christ in vain. Meanwhile, about 1,000,000,000 of our brothers and sisters are starving.

Grand ribon-cutting opening by for another mall built using the name of Jesus Christ...






Even if you designated fast offerings - the church leaders now say it’s their money and they can use it as they want...

Stop being a hypocrite and casting stones as judas did complaining on how the lord spends his money.

I happen to think they are very good stewards.

The Lord spends his money????

Good stewards????

Seriously....

The Lord has nothing to do with the 150 billion tithing slush fund...or a paid ministry that gets $152K base plus perks...FALLIBLE IMPERFECT MEN DO.

Don't try to pin this crap on the Lord.

...and the Lord had NOTHING to do with the deadly-jab "urging" either.

Yes Judas was the one who complained about how the Lord spent his money, he made the exact same argument you make..... interesting huh.

The church donates tones of money and if they didnt have a large slush fund they would not be good stewards. The fact you think that salery they take is high is an absolute joke. Middle class income is now considered living high on the hog huh.....

Mumur murmur murmur....

[Reluctant Watchman]

The church donates tones of money and if they didnt have a large slush fund they would not be good stewards. The fact you think that salery they take is high is an absolute joke. Middle class income is now considered living high on the hog huh.....

Mumur murmur murmur....

The church donates less than 2% of its "slush fund." Also, it isn't that the church has a surplus, it's that they keep it when there is a great need around them. Oh, and how they acquired that slush fund should also be questioned. Nephi put it this way:

12 Because of pride, and because of false teachers, and false doctrine, their churches have become corrupted, and their churches are lifted up; because of pride they are puffed up.

13 They rob the poor because of their fine sanctuaries; they rob the poor because of their fine clothing; and they persecute the meek and the poor in heart, because in their pride they are puffed up.

Requiring an incorrect tithe of the poor is wrong.

[Shawn Henry]

Just like he temporarily accepted baptisms for the dead outside of the temple, he temporarily allowed the endowment and sealings to be performed outside the temple until the temple could be completed and dedicated (which it was).

That is not and cannot be the same. The Lord would make himself a liar, because he specifically said the temple was needed to reveal the ordinances. It clearly wasn't at all needed. Do you see the difference?

God did not misspeak. Joseph was testing the saints to see if they would be faithful to God's word in section 124 and they failed the test.

[LDS Watchman]

Where the higher ordinances revealed by Joseph Smith in the Red Brick Store administered in the dedicated Nauvoo Temple?

Yes or no?

You can interpret what the Lord said for yourself. Obviously he had something in mind.

Why are you dodging the question?

Where the higher ordinances revealed by Joseph Smith in the Red Brick Store administered in the dedicated Nauvoo Temple?

Yes or no?

I am not dodging the question, but you ask the wrong question. A better question is was what Joseph Smith taught in the Red Brick everything that the Lord said he wanted to teach and do in His House?

Do you not take accept the Lord's word when He says plainly to build a House in His name because, "...there is not a place found on earth that he may come to and restore again that which was lost unto you, or which he hath taken away, even the fulness of the priesthood." (D&C 124:28)?

The Lord said to build a place, but they didn't. We have not fully received what he intended for us.

I believe that the ordinances of the priesthood were restored in the Nauvoo temple to the Saints at large, after having been revealed to a select group previously in the Red Brick Store.

But I guess whether or not what was revealed in the Red Brick store and later in the Nauvoo temple was what God had in mind for the Temple is a matter of opinion.

I believe that it was.

[LDS Watchman]

That is not and cannot be the same.

It is the exact same thing.

[Shawn Henry]

It is the exact same thing.

You're like a damn broken record, only parroting back things you have already said while ignoring everything else.

Explain to me how absolutely nothing was revealed in the Nauvoo Temple, how it was all already revealed in the Red Brick store and how that doesn't make God's word void when he said he would reveal them in the temple.

[LDS Watchman]

It is the exact same thing.

You're like a damn broken record, only parroting back things you have already said while ignoring everything else.

Explain to me how absolutely nothing was revealed in the Nauvoo Temple, how it was all already revealed in the Red Brick store and how that doesn't make God's word void when he said he would reveal them in the temple.

Nothing was revealed in the Nauvoo Temple? Really?

The thousands of Saints who received their endowments in the Nauvoo temple would beg to differ.

[ransomme]

You can interpret what the Lord said for yourself. Obviously he had something in mind.

Why are you dodging the question?

Where the higher ordinances revealed by Joseph Smith in the Red Brick Store administered in the dedicated Nauvoo Temple?

Yes or no?

I am not dodging the question, but you ask the wrong question. A better question is was what Joseph Smith taught in the Red Brick everything that the Lord said he wanted to teach and do in His House?

Do you not take accept the Lord's word when He says plainly to build a House in His name because, "...there is not a place found on earth that he may come to and restore again that which was lost unto you, or which he hath taken away, even the fulness of the priesthood." (D&C 124:28)?

The Lord said to build a place, but they didn't. We have not fully received what he intended for us.

I believe that the ordinances of the priesthood were restored in the Nauvoo temple to the Saints at large, after having been revealed to a select group previously in the Red Brick Store.

But I guess whether or not what was revealed in the Red Brick store and later in the Nauvoo temple was what God had in mind for the Temple is a matter of opinion.

I believe that it was.

That's fine, but there's no proof.

Personally I take the Lord at his word that he had more stuff to reveal in the temple once it was done.

[Shawn Henry]

It is the exact same thing.

You're like a damn broken record, only parroting back things you have already said while ignoring everything else.

Explain to me how absolutely nothing was revealed in the Nauvoo Temple, how it was all already revealed in the Red Brick store and how that doesn't make God's word void when he said he would reveal them in the temple.

Nothing was revealed in the Nauvoo Temple? Really?

The thousands of Saints who received their endowments in the Nauvoo temple would beg to differ.

If it has already been revealed, it is already revealed. They were just late to the party.

Is there no English word you won't twist to your advantage?

[Chris]

It is the exact same thing.

You're like a damn broken record, only parroting back things you have already said while ignoring everything else.

Explain to me how absolutely nothing was revealed in the Nauvoo Temple, how it was all already revealed in the Red Brick store and how that doesn't make God's word void when he said he would reveal them in the temple.

That is documented and recorded fact that all temple ordinances were done in the redbrick store. All of them and all done there. ( with the exception of baptisms which were done in the river )

[ransomme]

The church began to fall into apostasy circa 1890 and has continued to descend at a gradually accelerated pace since. Those who say Brigham Young and those that followed murdered brother Joseph are without fact or standing in this. Wilford Woordruff tried to play the devil at his own game and was killed by the luciferians in the end after, still with good intentions, but ultimately inadvertently leading the church into the wide and filthy path of babylon.

As far as I can tell, it started in earnest with the secret chamber and spiritual wifey.

When they abandoned polygamy… not when it was started.

No when the priesthood was not restored and they were removed from their place (they being Joseph & Hyrum, and also the saints). When they lost their claim to the land that was appointed to them (like in Missouri) and did not "bring forth fruit and works meet for my kingdom [so that] they shall dwell thereon." (D&C 101:100)

[Luke]

The church began to fall into apostasy circa 1890 and has continued to descend at a gradually accelerated pace since. Those who say Brigham Young and those that followed murdered brother Joseph are without fact or standing in this. Wilford Woordruff tried to play the devil at his own game and was killed by the luciferians in the end after, still with good intentions, but ultimately inadvertently leading the church into the wide and filthy path of babylon.

As far as I can tell, it started in earnest with the secret chamber and spiritual wifey.

When they abandoned polygamy… not when it was started.

No when the priesthood was not restored and they were removed from their place (they being Joseph & Hyrum, and also the saints). When they lost their claim to the land that was appointed to them (like in Missouri) and did not "bring forth fruit and works meet for my kingdom [so that] they shall dwell thereon." (D&C 101:100)

It clearly was restored.

Joseph Smith made it clear that it was.

[ransomme]

As far as I can tell, it started in earnest with the secret chamber and spiritual wifey.

When they abandoned polygamy… not when it was started.

No when the priesthood was not restored and they were removed from their place (they being Joseph & Hyrum, and also the saints). When they lost their claim to the land that was appointed to them (like in Missouri) and did not "bring forth fruit and works meet for my kingdom [so that] they shall dwell thereon." (D&C 101:100)

It clearly was restored.

Joseph Smith made it clear that it was.

Please share where he made that clear.

Because the fullness of the priesthood having been removed (and if not restored) would explain the brethren continually claiming no revelation and not seeing the Lord and becoming a true special witness.

[Thinker]

…complaining on how the lord spends his money…

That’s your problem right there… equating cult leaders with God.

[LDS Watchman]

It is the exact same thing.

You're like a damn broken record, only parroting back things you have already said while ignoring everything else.

Explain to me how absolutely nothing was revealed in the Nauvoo Temple, how it was all already revealed in the Red Brick store and how that doesn't make God's word void when he said he would reveal them in the temple.

Nothing was revealed in the Nauvoo Temple? Really?

The thousands of Saints who received their endowments in the Nauvoo temple would beg to differ.

If it has already been revealed, it is already revealed. They were just late to the party.

Is there no English word you won't twist to your advantage?

Let's look at the actual text of D&C 124.

41 For I deign to reveal unto my church things which have been kept hid from before the foundation of the world, things that pertain to the dispensation of the fulness of times.
42 And I will show unto my servant Joseph all things pertaining to this house, and the priesthood thereof, and the place whereon it shall be built.

You'll notice that these things were to be revealed to the Lord's church in the temple and that they were to be previously revealed to Joseph Smith.

That's exactly what happened. The ordinances were revealed to Joseph and a few others in the Red Brick store. Then those who had received this from Joseph revealed it to the body of the church in the temple.

I see no problem here.

[FrankOne]

I just have one account.

This is not though. Now you are back to purposeful misdirect. He didn't say you have 4 accounts, he said you are on your fourth.

ldswatchmen is a clever one.

[FrankOne]

You're like a damn broken record, only parroting back things you have already said while ignoring everything else.

Explain to me how absolutely nothing was revealed in the Nauvoo Temple, how it was all already revealed in the Red Brick store and how that doesn't make God's word void when he said he would reveal them in the temple.

Nothing was revealed in the Nauvoo Temple? Really?

The thousands of Saints who received their endowments in the Nauvoo temple would beg to differ.

If it has already been revealed, it is already revealed. They were just late to the party.

Is there no English word you won't twist to your advantage?

Let's look at the actual text of D&C 124.

41 For I deign to reveal unto my church things which have been kept hid from before the foundation of the world, things that pertain to the dispensation of the fulness of times.
42 And I will show unto my servant Joseph all things pertaining to this house, and the priesthood thereof, and the place whereon it shall be built.

You'll notice that these things were to be revealed to the Lord's church in the temple and that they were to be previously revealed to Joseph Smith.

That's exactly what happened. The ordinances were revealed to Joseph and a few others in the Red Brick store. Then those who had received this from Joseph revealed it to the body of the church in the temple.

I see no problem here.

hahahah

I don't have any popcorn tonight, so this will be my only response. Just checking in to catch the next episode of "King of Spin"

[Reluctant Watchman]

Ironically, LDSW has written sufficient on his blog to get himself exxed from the church. The handbook would give his SP sufficient ammo to send him packing.

[LDS Watchman]

Ironically, LDSW has written sufficient on his blog to get himself exxed from the church. The handbook would give his SP sufficient ammo to send him packing.

Nope, I shared my concerns with my Bishop and Stake President. And nothing happened to me. They didn't even release me from my leadership calling.

But I do need to make some updates to a few of my earlier posts when I was a bit overzealous in some things I wrote.

But it's again fascinating how obsessed you are with trying to make me look bad. Very petty and childish.

[LDS Watchman]

Nothing was revealed in the Nauvoo Temple? Really?

The thousands of Saints who received their endowments in the Nauvoo temple would beg to differ.

If it has already been revealed, it is already revealed. They were just late to the party.

Is there no English word you won't twist to your advantage?

Let's look at the actual text of D&C 124.

41 For I deign to reveal unto my church things which have been kept hid from before the foundation of the world, things that pertain to the dispensation of the fulness of times.
42 And I will show unto my servant Joseph all things pertaining to this house, and the priesthood thereof, and the place whereon it shall be built.

You'll notice that these things were to be revealed to the Lord's church in the temple and that they were to be previously revealed to Joseph Smith.

That's exactly what happened. The ordinances were revealed to Joseph and a few others in the Red Brick store. Then those who had received this from Joseph revealed it to the body of the church in the temple.

I see no problem here.

hahahah

I don't have any popcorn tonight, so this will be my only response. Just checking in to catch the next episode of "King of Spin"

People on this forum (on this very thread even) deny and twist all sorts of scriptures in order to attack the church, yet you don't call them kings of spin.

But when I express my beliefs and support them with scriptures and historical evidence, I'm the "King of Spin."

Hypocrisy.

[FrankOne]

If it has already been revealed, it is already revealed. They were just late to the party.

Is there no English word you won't twist to your advantage?

Let's look at the actual text of D&C 124.

41 For I deign to reveal unto my church things which have been kept hid from before the foundation of the world, things that pertain to the dispensation of the fulness of times.
42 And I will show unto my servant Joseph all things pertaining to this house, and the priesthood thereof, and the place whereon it shall be built.

You'll notice that these things were to be revealed to the Lord's church in the temple and that they were to be previously revealed to Joseph Smith.

That's exactly what happened. The ordinances were revealed to Joseph and a few others in the Red Brick store. Then those who had received this from Joseph revealed it to the body of the church in the temple.

I see no problem here.

hahahah

I don't have any popcorn tonight, so this will be my only response. Just checking in to catch the next episode of "King of Spin"

People on this forum (on this very thread even) deny and twist all sorts of scriptures in order to attack the church, yet you don't call them kings of spin.

But when I express my beliefs and support them with scriptures and historical evidence, I'm the "King of Spin."

Hypocrisy.

Yes, I have observed alot of spin in forums , but I don't think I"ve ever encountered anyone with such a talent as yours. Hence, I used the word "king". Since I strive to be as accurate as I possibly can , I am aware that I do not spin anything. I make errors, yes, but I do not 'spin' words or history. I am careful to say words such as "It is my opinion or perspective". Why? because I've been in error too many times when saying I know something that I really don't know.

Again, you have used your talent to spin the word Hypocrisy as if it applies to me when it does not. I said nothing hypocritical. Yet...you label my words as hypocrisy. That is to spin.

At this time, I feel the weight upon me for making the errors of mocking you. I sincerely apologize.

Good luck to you on your course.

[LDS Watchman]

At this time, I feel the weight upon me for making the errors of mocking you. I sincerely apologize.

Good luck to you on your course.

Thank you. I accept your apology.

[FrankOne]

At this time, I feel the weight upon me for making the errors of mocking you. I sincerely apologize.

Good luck to you on your course.

Thank you. I accept your apology.

[LDS Watchman]

Personally I take the Lord at his word that he had more stuff to reveal in the temple once it was done.

When did the Lord say that he had more to reveal in the Nauvoo Temple than what Joseph revealed to his inner circle in the Red Brick store?

As far as I'm aware, Joseph Smith said the opposite.

[The Red Pill]

How do you know if someone is truly serving God?
Isn’t talk cheap - “faith without works dead”?
By their fruits ye shall know them.

Deuteronomy 14:28-29 (conveniently ignored in lds curriculums) states that tithing collectors are to give at least 1/3 of TITHES to those in need. Christ asked those who can, to give much more.

While we are often pressured and shamed into giving “honest tithes,” church leaders keep money dark and secret, though Oaks did admit no tithes go to the poor. Funds intended for the poor go to the corporate empire of mormon leaders and we have no clue or say in how it’s spent. We do know the church had some fancy malls built, and a list of greedy wordly companies using the name of Jesus Christ in vain. Meanwhile, about 1,000,000,000 of our brothers and sisters are starving.

Grand ribon-cutting opening by for another mall built using the name of Jesus Christ...






Even if you designated fast offerings - the church leaders now say it’s their money and they can use it as they want...

Stop being a hypocrite and casting stones as judas did complaining on how the lord spends his money.

I happen to think they are very good stewards.

The Lord spends his money????

Good stewards????

Seriously....

The Lord has nothing to do with the 150 billion tithing slush fund...or a paid ministry that gets $152K base plus perks...FALLIBLE IMPERFECT MEN DO.

Don't try to pin this crap on the Lord.

...and the Lord had NOTHING to do with the deadly-jab "urging" either.

Yes Judas was the one who complained about how the Lord spent his money, he made the exact same argument you make..... interesting huh.

The church donates tones of money and if they didnt have a large slush fund they would not be good stewards. The fact you think that salery they take is high is an absolute joke. Middle class income is now considered living high on the hog huh.....

Mumur murmur murmur....

FACTS SKIPPY:

USA 2021 Real median household income was $70,784

That's HOUSEHOLD income...not individual income, like the red-chair crowd are getting.

Under 15,000 9.3%
15,000 to 24,999 8.1%
25,000 to 34,999 7.8%
35,000 to 49,999 10.9%
50,000 to 74,999 16.2%
75,000 to 99,999 11.9%
100,000 to 149,999 15.9%
150,000 to 199,999 8.3%
200,000 and over 11.6%

Less than 20% of HOUSEHOLDS make over 150K per year. The only joke is your understanding of income distribution.

152K base with lots of additional perks is NOT middle class.

....and please stop with "the Lord spent his money" nonsense. NOBODY has spotted Jesus making withdrawals over at Ensign Peak Advisors...