Poll: LDS church is true, but everyone is false?

[The Red Pill]

NOWHERE does it say that the temple had to be completely finished just as they had planned it no matter what or they would be rejected as a church.

Oh folks!! Did I call it or what!!!

I sense your pending response: "The Lord said build a house, not build a complete house". Save it spin meister.

You totally called it.

Unfortunately, for all of us, Watchman is a professional apologist. A Daniel Peterson type...heck, it might even be Daniel...

He's got more spin cycles than my Maytag.

[LDS Watchman]

Jehovah is a title that can be applied to more than one God. It usually refers to the Father, but can also refer to the Son. Plus the Father and Son are one anyway.

The title has nothing to do with my point. I can now see how you get into so many arguments.

Why would Christ refer to his "only begotten"? Did he have a relapse into his previous life as Jehovah and then referred to himself from that other self ?

no need to respond. In fact, let this just be a misunderstanding on my part. I apologize for interjecting a new topic. Please disregard.

We can drop it if you want. But the simple answer is that it was God the Father referring to his only begotten son in that verse.

uh. ok.
so.. if Jehovah became Christ when Christ was born on earth, then they are one and the same NOW and also when that revelation was given. They are the same. One guy. Just one according to LDS doctrine. In that scripture, the person speaking referred to a second individual and called him "my only begotten". If they are one and the same, then he wouldn't talk like that because he'd be referring to himself.

It's just like the first vision where JS reportedly saw the Father and the Son at the SAME time. Ok... how is that possible? If Jehovah became Christ, who is the Father in the first vision? uh.....

something's wonky. Either the doctrine that Jehovah became Christ is wrong or there is a mystery Father that isn't mentioned anywhere.

I'm sure you'll come up with something. I've got my popcorn.

Again, Jehovah is a title. It can and is applied to both the Father and the Son, depending on the context. And no, the Father and the Son are not the same being.

But since you're just looking to be entertained as you eat your popcorn and these aren't sincere questions, I will just leave it at that for now.

[LDS Watchman]

NOWHERE does it say that the temple had to be completely finished just as they had planned it no matter what or they would be rejected as a church.

Oh folks!! Did I call it or what!!!

I sense your pending response: "The Lord said build a house, not build a complete house". Save it spin meister.

You totally called it.

Unfortunately, for all of us, Watchman is a professional apologist. A Daniel Peterson type...heck, it might even be Daniel...

He's got more spin cycles than my Maytag.

I'm just a guy who knows his scriptures and church history. That's all.

And if one random guy is able to thwart your claims this easily, that should tell you all something.

[FrankOne]

NOWHERE does it say that the temple had to be completely finished just as they had planned it no matter what or they would be rejected as a church.

Oh folks!! Did I call it or what!!!

I sense your pending response: "The Lord said build a house, not build a complete house". Save it spin meister.

You totally called it.

Unfortunately, for all of us, Watchman is a professional apologist. A Daniel Peterson type...heck, it might even be Daniel...

He's got more spin cycles than my Maytag.

I'm just a guy who knows his scriptures and church history. That's all.

And if one random guy is able to thwart your claims this easily, that should tell you all something.

hahah.

you are funny. Thanks.

[ransomme]

The original building was never completed, let alone by the appointed time.

Yes it was.

Stop lying to yourself and trying to spread those lies to others. The temple reached about 80% completion. Before it was destroyed they dedicated sections of it, like 6 dedications/sections.

https://archives.lib.byu.edu/agents/cor ... ities/1021

Nauvoo Temple (Nauvoo, Ill. : 1841-1850)
“The Nauvoo Temple (1841-1850), in Nauvoo, Illinois was the second temple built by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Never fully finished, it was set on fire by arsonists in 1848, and the building was destroyed by 1850.” (BYU Library – Special Collections: Nauvoo Temple)

Hmm.... where in section 124 does the Lord say that the temple had to be finished 100% or the church would be rejected?

Seriously? Is that how you approach life too? Meh, 80%....that's good enough.

100% is God's way. Imagine if God stopped creation at 80%... I guess man wouldn't have made the cut and wouldn't be on Earth.

And the rejection is evident in the loss of protection, ie Joseph and Hyrum were killed, and the saints also moved from their place. And so on...

[ransomme]

I believe Brigham tried selling the temple like six times, but he could never prove ownership.

Not just that, he started to try sell it before they even dedicated a portion of it.

[ransomme]

NOWHERE does it say that the temple had to be completely finished just as they had planned it no matter what or they would be rejected as a church.

Oh folks!! Did I call it or what!!!

I sense your pending response: "The Lord said build a house, not build a complete house". Save it spin meister.

You totally called it.

Unfortunately, for all of us, Watchman is a professional apologist. A Daniel Peterson type...heck, it might even be Daniel...

He's got more spin cycles than my Maytag.

I'm just a guy who knows his scriptures and church history. That's all.

And if one random guy is able to thwart your claims this easily, that should tell you all something.

Dude you didn't know that the Nauvoo temple wasn't completed 100%, so you switched your argument to 'where did it say that it needed to be 100%'

Making claims like that is, like wow... Just some feedback, you need to know your scriptures and history a lot better in order to make that claim. It's fine to disagree on interpretation perhaps, but you get facts wrong.

[logonbump]

D&C 101:43-69 Jesus tells us how the church went astray and how Zion will need to be redeemed.

Yeah, it says the strength of the Lord's house will do it. AkA the wheat in the church once the tares have been removed.

Right, the tares that were unwise and put the tithing money into the stock exchange and failed to build the watchtower.

D&C 101 doesn't say this. This is just your spin on it.

Money changers, tower it's all in there.. yall need to study this section once a week, it seems. It's D&C Section 101; for related studying, go to 103 for the identity of secondary figure in the parable to be revealed.

[LDS Watchman]

Seriously? Is that how you approach life too? Meh, 80%....that's good enough.

100% is God's way. Imagine if God stopped creation at 80%... I guess man wouldn't have made the cut and wouldn't be on Earth.

Oh my, you need to actually to the time to read. The Lord's warning of being rejected was 100% about the baptismal font and the ordinance of baptism for the dead. That requirement was met in November 1841.

As for the interior not be finished all of the way, this principle applies:

49 Verily, verily, I say unto you, that when I give a commandment to any of the sons of men to do a work unto my name, and those sons of men go with all their might and with all they have to perform that work, and cease not their diligence, and their enemies come upon them and hinder them from performing that work, behold, it behooveth me to require that work no more at the hands of those sons of men, but to accept of their offerings. (D&C 124)

And the rejection is evident in the loss of protection, ie Joseph and Hyrum were killed, and the saints also moved from their place. And so on...

Nope. Please see D&C 136.

[LDS Watchman]

Oh folks!! Did I call it or what!!!

You totally called it.

Unfortunately, for all of us, Watchman is a professional apologist. A Daniel Peterson type...heck, it might even be Daniel...

He's got more spin cycles than my Maytag.

I'm just a guy who knows his scriptures and church history. That's all.

And if one random guy is able to thwart your claims this easily, that should tell you all something.

Dude you didn't know that the Nauvoo temple wasn't completed 100%, so you switched your argument to 'where did it say that it needed to be 100%'

Making claims like that is, like wow... Just some feedback, you need to know your scriptures and history a lot better in order to make that claim. It's fine to disagree on interpretation perhaps, but you get facts wrong.

Dude, I've known about the interior not being finished 100% for years. I didn't switch anything. Please stop with the childish false accusations.

[LDS Watchman]

Yeah, it says the strength of the Lord's house will do it. AkA the wheat in the church once the tares have been removed.

Right, the tares that were unwise and put the tithing money into the stock exchange and failed to build the watchtower.

D&C 101 doesn't say this. This is just your spin on it.

Money changers, tower it's all in there.. yall need to study this section once a week, it seems. It's D&C Section 101; for related studying, go to 103 for the identity of secondary figure in the parable to be revealed.

Tithing and tares isn't there.

[The Red Pill]

Yes it was.

Stop lying to yourself and trying to spread those lies to others. The temple reached about 80% completion. Before it was destroyed they dedicated sections of it, like 6 dedications/sections.

https://archives.lib.byu.edu/agents/cor ... ities/1021

Nauvoo Temple (Nauvoo, Ill. : 1841-1850)
“The Nauvoo Temple (1841-1850), in Nauvoo, Illinois was the second temple built by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Never fully finished, it was set on fire by arsonists in 1848, and the building was destroyed by 1850.” (BYU Library – Special Collections: Nauvoo Temple)

Hmm.... where in section 124 does the Lord say that the temple had to be finished 100% or the church would be rejected?

Seriously? Is that how you approach life too? Meh, 80%....that's good enough.

100% is God's way. Imagine if God stopped creation at 80%... I guess man wouldn't have made the cut and wouldn't be on Earth.

And the rejection is evident in the loss of protection, ie Joseph and Hyrum were killed, and the saints also moved from their place. And so on...

Good point. Words have meaning!

finished
adjective

fin·​ished | \ ˈfi-nisht \
Definition of finished
1: entirely done
Are you finished yet?
: brought to a completed state
reviewing a finished manuscript
a finished job

[LDS Watchman]

Stop lying to yourself and trying to spread those lies to others. The temple reached about 80% completion. Before it was destroyed they dedicated sections of it, like 6 dedications/sections.

https://archives.lib.byu.edu/agents/cor ... ities/1021

Nauvoo Temple (Nauvoo, Ill. : 1841-1850)
“The Nauvoo Temple (1841-1850), in Nauvoo, Illinois was the second temple built by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Never fully finished, it was set on fire by arsonists in 1848, and the building was destroyed by 1850.” (BYU Library – Special Collections: Nauvoo Temple)

Hmm.... where in section 124 does the Lord say that the temple had to be finished 100% or the church would be rejected?

Seriously? Is that how you approach life too? Meh, 80%....that's good enough.

100% is God's way. Imagine if God stopped creation at 80%... I guess man wouldn't have made the cut and wouldn't be on Earth.

And the rejection is evident in the loss of protection, ie Joseph and Hyrum were killed, and the saints also moved from their place. And so on...

Good point. Words have meaning!

finished
adjective

fin·​ished | \ ˈfi-nisht \
Definition of finished
1: entirely done
Are you finished yet?
: brought to a completed state
reviewing a finished manuscript
a finished job

D&C 124 doesn't mention the word "finish" in conjunction with the command to build the temple. So this is a mute point.

[ransomme]

You totally called it.

Unfortunately, for all of us, Watchman is a professional apologist. A Daniel Peterson type...heck, it might even be Daniel...

He's got more spin cycles than my Maytag.

I'm just a guy who knows his scriptures and church history. That's all.

And if one random guy is able to thwart your claims this easily, that should tell you all something.

Dude you didn't know that the Nauvoo temple wasn't completed 100%, so you switched your argument to 'where did it say that it needed to be 100%'

Making claims like that is, like wow... Just some feedback, you need to know your scriptures and history a lot better in order to make that claim. It's fine to disagree on interpretation perhaps, but you get facts wrong.

Dude, I've known about the interior not being finished 100% for years. I didn't switch anything. Please stop with the childish false accusations.

Really? That is rich. You love telling people falsely about moving goalposts as you strawman, and all sorts of stuff.

And just above you claimed it was finished and it wasn't. I even provided proof for you but go ahead and try to wriggle your way out.

[LDS Watchman]

I'm just a guy who knows his scriptures and church history. That's all.

And if one random guy is able to thwart your claims this easily, that should tell you all something.

Dude you didn't know that the Nauvoo temple wasn't completed 100%, so you switched your argument to 'where did it say that it needed to be 100%'

Making claims like that is, like wow... Just some feedback, you need to know your scriptures and history a lot better in order to make that claim. It's fine to disagree on interpretation perhaps, but you get facts wrong.

Dude, I've known about the interior not being finished 100% for years. I didn't switch anything. Please stop with the childish false accusations.

Really? That is rich. You love telling people falsely about moving goalposts as you strawman, and all sorts of stuff.

And just above you claimed it was finished and it wasn't. I even provided proof for you but go ahead and try to wriggle your way out.

I said that the basement with the baptismal font was finished. And the rest was finished sufficiently to perform the endowment and be dedicated.

But sure go ahead and keep up with the false accusations.

[Reluctant Watchman]

What amazes me is some of you keep engaging him.

[ransomme]

Hmm.... where in section 124 does the Lord say that the temple had to be finished 100% or the church would be rejected?

Seriously? Is that how you approach life too? Meh, 80%....that's good enough.

100% is God's way. Imagine if God stopped creation at 80%... I guess man wouldn't have made the cut and wouldn't be on Earth.

And the rejection is evident in the loss of protection, ie Joseph and Hyrum were killed, and the saints also moved from their place. And so on...

Good point. Words have meaning!

finished
adjective

fin·​ished | \ ˈfi-nisht \
Definition of finished
1: entirely done
Are you finished yet?
: brought to a completed state
reviewing a finished manuscript
a finished job

D&C 124 doesn't mention the word "finish" in conjunction with the command to build the temple. So this is a mute point.

"For verily I say unto you, that after you have had sufficient time to build a house to me,..."

"...how shall your washings be acceptable unto me, except ye perform them in a house which you have built to my name?"

"And verily I say unto you, let this house be built unto my name, that I may reveal mine ordinances therein unto my people;"

To "be built" implies complete %.

It's not partially built. It's not mostly built. The command was to build a "holy house" in His name. IDK about you but if the Lord said to build it, I'm not going to try to cut corners. I also would try to pass off something partially finished as an offering to the Lord.

It was an imperfect offering and I would say an unfit one too for our Lord.

[ransomme]

Dude you didn't know that the Nauvoo temple wasn't completed 100%, so you switched your argument to 'where did it say that it needed to be 100%'

Making claims like that is, like wow... Just some feedback, you need to know your scriptures and history a lot better in order to make that claim. It's fine to disagree on interpretation perhaps, but you get facts wrong.

Dude, I've known about the interior not being finished 100% for years. I didn't switch anything. Please stop with the childish false accusations.

Really? That is rich. You love telling people falsely about moving goalposts as you strawman, and all sorts of stuff.

And just above you claimed it was finished and it wasn't. I even provided proof for you but go ahead and try to wriggle your way out.

I said that the basement with the baptismal font was finished. And the rest was finished sufficiently to perform the endowment and be dedicated.

But sure go ahead and keep up with the false accusations.

The Lord is my witness as well as everyone reading this thread. You are lying.

You should stay posting under a new account, because you have trashed the reputation of this one.

[LDS Watchman]

Seriously? Is that how you approach life too? Meh, 80%....that's good enough.

100% is God's way. Imagine if God stopped creation at 80%... I guess man wouldn't have made the cut and wouldn't be on Earth.

And the rejection is evident in the loss of protection, ie Joseph and Hyrum were killed, and the saints also moved from their place. And so on...

Good point. Words have meaning!

finished
adjective

fin·​ished | \ ˈfi-nisht \
Definition of finished
1: entirely done
Are you finished yet?
: brought to a completed state
reviewing a finished manuscript
a finished job

D&C 124 doesn't mention the word "finish" in conjunction with the command to build the temple. So this is a mute point.

"For verily I say unto you, that after you have had sufficient time to build a house to me,..."

"...how shall your washings be acceptable unto me, except ye perform them in a house which you have built to my name?"

"And verily I say unto you, let this house be built unto my name, that I may reveal mine ordinances therein unto my people;"

To "be built" implies complete %.

It's not partially built. It's not mostly built. The command was to build a "holy house" in His name. IDK about you but if the Lord said to build it, I'm not going to try to cut corners. I also would try to pass off something partially finished as an offering to the Lord.

It was an imperfect offering and I would say an unfit one too for our Lord.

You can believe whatever you want, but God determines of it was an acceptable offering and met his requirements, not you.

[LDS Watchman]

Dude, I've known about the interior not being finished 100% for years. I didn't switch anything. Please stop with the childish false accusations.

Really? That is rich. You love telling people falsely about moving goalposts as you strawman, and all sorts of stuff.

And just above you claimed it was finished and it wasn't. I even provided proof for you but go ahead and try to wriggle your way out.

I said that the basement with the baptismal font was finished. And the rest was finished sufficiently to perform the endowment and be dedicated.

But sure go ahead and keep up with the false accusations.

The Lord is my witness as well as everyone reading this thread. You are lying.

You should stay posting under a new account, because you have trashed the reputation of this one.

You're the one lying and now taking the name of the Lord in vain.

But carry on.

[The Red Pill]

Brigham and Heber C. Kimball were BFF's and very involved in Freemasonry...and the Freemasonry lodge got finished...

But the temple and boarding house did not...

Hmmmm

[ransomme]

Really? That is rich. You love telling people falsely about moving goalposts as you strawman, and all sorts of stuff.

And just above you claimed it was finished and it wasn't. I even provided proof for you but go ahead and try to wriggle your way out.

I said that the basement with the baptismal font was finished. And the rest was finished sufficiently to perform the endowment and be dedicated.

But sure go ahead and keep up with the false accusations.

The Lord is my witness as well as everyone reading this thread. You are lying.

You should stay posting under a new account, because you have trashed the reputation of this one.

You're the one lying and now taking the name of the Lord in vain.

But carry on.

Saying that the Lord witnessed your lie is not taking the Lord's name in vain. This apparently is yet another thing that you have no understanding of.

Just look at how you lie, it's sad and I'm embarrassed for you. It seems like you just say whatever you want and claim that you already said it.

LDSW lie.1.JPG (132.87 KiB) Viewed 371 times

I sincerely hope that you have people close to you that love you.

[LDS Watchman]

Saying that the Lord witnessed your lie is not taking the Lord's name in vain. This apparently is yet another thing that you have no understanding of.

Just look at how you lie, it's sad and I'm embarrassed for you. It seems like you just say whatever you want and claim that you already said it.
LDSW lie.1.JPG

I sincerely hope that you have people close to you that love you.

Man, you're piece of work.

Have you ever heard of context? What was I saying before I said that the temple had been completed?

Here's the first response I made to your claim that the church was rejected over failing to complete the Nauvoo temple.

The requirement was to build a temple with a baptismal font and move the ordinance of baptism for the dead into the temple. This was done before Joseph's death.

You are the one who is lying and making false accusations. End of story.

For your own sake, I suggest you stop it.

34 Wo unto the liar, for he shall be thrust down to hell. (2 Nephi 9)

[FrankOne]

Saying that the Lord witnessed your lie is not taking the Lord's name in vain. This apparently is yet another thing that you have no understanding of.

Just look at how you lie, it's sad and I'm embarrassed for you. It seems like you just say whatever you want and claim that you already said it.
LDSW lie.1.JPG

I sincerely hope that you have people close to you that love you.

Man, you're piece of work.

Have you ever heard of context? What was I saying before I said that the temple had been completed?

Here's the first response I made to your claim that the church was rejected over failing to complete the Nauvoo temple.

The requirement was to build a temple with a baptismal font and move the ordinance of baptism for the dead into the temple. This was done before Joseph's death.

You are the one who is lying and making false accusations. End of story.

For your own sake, I suggest you stop it.

34 Wo unto the liar, for he shall be thrust down to hell. (2 Nephi 9)

glad I still have popcorn left over from last night. Your responses are hilarious. Thanks

[ransomme]

Saying that the Lord witnessed your lie is not taking the Lord's name in vain. This apparently is yet another thing that you have no understanding of.

Just look at how you lie, it's sad and I'm embarrassed for you. It seems like you just say whatever you want and claim that you already said it.
LDSW lie.1.JPG

I sincerely hope that you have people close to you that love you.

Man, you're piece of work.

Have you ever heard of context? What was I saying before I said that the temple had been completed?

Here's the first response I made to your claim that the church was rejected over failing to complete the Nauvoo temple.

The requirement was to build a temple with a baptismal font and move the ordinance of baptism for the dead into the temple. This was done before Joseph's death.

You are the one who is lying and making false accusations. End of story.

For your own sake, I suggest you stop it.

34 Wo unto the liar, for he shall be thrust down to hell. (2 Nephi 9)

Wow, you go back and forth to whatever suits you. Ok, now that you are going to push this point over the other ones, I hope you stick with it this time: even if you are grasping at straws. The ironic thing is that your point is narrow and misses the major portions of the point. You highlight a lesser part of the purpose; a part of the lesser priesthood. Do you not know the purpose of the Temple? Truthfully, your lack of respect for the House of the Lord and priesthood ordinances is astonishing for a TBM apologist.

The temple was for higher purposes, higher ordinances than only baptisms for the dead. They were instructed:
"38...to build a house in the land of promise, that those ordinances might be revealed which had been hid from before the world was...
39 for the beginning of the revelations and foundation of Zion, and for the glory, honor, and endowment of all her municipals, are ordained by the ordinance of my holy house, which my people are always commanded to build unto my holy name.
40 And verily I say unto you, let this house be built unto my name, that I may reveal mine ordinances therein unto my people;
41 For I deign to reveal unto my church things which have been kept hid from before the foundation of the world, things that pertain to the dispensation of the fulness of times.
42 And I will show unto my servant Joseph all things pertaining to this house, and the priesthood thereof..."

"44 If ye labor with all your might, I will consecrate that spot that it shall be made holy."
80% is not laboring with all one's might. unless you disagree. And this is precisely why 80% is not good enough...

It was meant to be a dwelling place, the House of the Lord, a Holy House where the Lord can teach and restore:
" 27...build a house to my name, for the Most High to dwell therein. 28 For there is not a place found on earth that he may come to and restore again that which was lost unto you, or which he hath taken away, even the fulness of the priesthood."