Thoughts on Faith Crisis and LDSFF

[Reluctant Watchman]

As the Church is presently, is definitely not the church I grew up in.

And the church I grew up in was not the church Joseph restored.

[Silver Pie]

As the Church is presently, is definitely not the church I grew up in.

And the church I grew up in was not the church Joseph restored.

True, but it was better than what Brigham did to it.

I can only praise God for giving me understanding and guidance, and for realizing that HE is who I should listen to and follow. I should not even follow a true prophet (and a true prophet will point to Christ, not to himself).

And as society digs itself deeper and deeper into hell, I see the truth of the prophesy some general authority made years and years ago (maybe reiterated more recently; I don't know about that), that there would come a time when we'd have to stand on our own testimony and not on another's, including not relying on and trusting The Brethren.

[jreuben]

I am very reluctant to post on the forum. I have never been in a place where I have had a crisis of faith. But, with the FP letter to get the shot, it just put me over the edge. ... So, our salvation now is relegated to a committee, then run past a the church's group of lawyers? This seems to me to be relying on the arm of flesh.
...

You're not alone in these thoughts and feelings, especially on LDSFF.

I'll have to look for the quote, but either James Talmage or David McKay had some of these same feelings even back when they were alive. I recall something to the effect of seeing how apostasies take form during the creation and empowerment of the Correlation Committee. Committees are nothing more than counsels and in Russian that word is "soviet".

[Niemand]

I am very reluctant to post on the forum. I have never been in a place where I have had a crisis of faith. But, with the FP letter to get the shot, it just put me over the edge. ... So, our salvation now is relegated to a committee, then run past a the church's group of lawyers? This seems to me to be relying on the arm of flesh.
...

You're not alone in these thoughts and feelings, especially on LDSFF.

I'll have to look for the quote, but either James Talmage or David McKay had some of these same feelings even back when they were alive. I recall something to the effect of seeing how apostasies take form during the creation and empowerment of the Correlation Committee. Committees are nothing more than counsels and in Russian that word is "soviet".

They also say a camel is a horse designed by a committee. I think they do have their uses, but can be a nuisance.

[Thinker]

Reorienting your faith takes effort, time & hope.
"Faith is an orientation of the total person, giving purpose and goal to one's hopes and strivings, thoughts and actions.” - James W. Fowler

[Thinker]

I like to refer to it as a trust crisis rather than a faith crisis. It seems that many of the listed reasons cause one to lose trust in the institution….

I like that way of saying it. It kind of assigns responsibility more appropriately. When I have told members of my faith crisis, I’ve received mainly 3 different responses:

1) Ignore/dismiss (most)
2) Pity, “That’s too bad. I’ll pray for you.”
3) You simply aren’t faithful enough so let me give you an onslaught of Mormon cult indoctrination to help you get back on track.

Really, it is trust that has been broken, truth that has been discovered - like discovering a spouse had been cheating on you for years but you just found out. Yes, you saw red flags over the years, but you didn’t want to believe them & rock the boat. Sure, we have response-ability to explore & act on the highest good, based on these discoveries. But also those who are cheating have response-ability to stop lying & cheating. We cannot control others but we don’t have to join them in gaslighting & shifting blame to us for daring to discover their immoral acts.

Trying to apply my own advice.

I like this summary:
“In the Mormon paradigm, anyone who leaves is either a threat to be avoided or a lost sheep that needs to be rescued. Regardless, the person who steps away is a problem to be dealt with —not a person to be understood. So, what does a Mormon faith crisis feel like? It feels like an identity crisis. A crisis of trust. It's shockingly lonely.” https://postmormoncoaching.com/blog/wha ... feel-like/

Another thought re OP: #2 has more inured layers - more truth crisis to process. The way is indeed narrow & few find it.

[oneClimbs]

It is basically Fowlers Stages of Faith.

Yes. This makes a lot of sense.

So, according to this chart, a TBM is in stage 3.

They enter this stage usually very young, after years of catchy primary songs and societal indoctrination.
And they never leave this stage. Because it’s very hard to leave... because of the culture, and the proofs of membership (like temple recommends).

It’s highly looked down upon to advance to the next stage. Because the next stage does not NEED an institution.

So, as a result, a TBM is locked into stage 3 forever and ever and ever.... because stage 4 disqualifies one as a TBM.
How fitting. We are taught in our TBM institution that our progression continues AFTER WE DIE. All is well in this life... just keep following the rules. No progressing past stage 3. We shall progress in the next life.

I read something once that said something to the affect of: if your group or church or religion tells you of rewards AFTER you die, you are in a cult.

So interesting.

I archived an audio presentation from John Paulien who is a 7th Day Adventist and he covers Fowler's stages of faith. I listen to this at least once per year and it is incredibly powerful, especially the part about the war vet and his calling. I think that understanding these stages is a pretty good framework for ministering to others and also realizing what to do with ourselves when we find ourselves in unfamiliar territory on our faith journey.

https://oneclimbs.com/2015/08/13/audio- ... n-paulien/

[Cruiserdude]

It is basically Fowlers Stages of Faith.

Yes. This makes a lot of sense.

So, according to this chart, a TBM is in stage 3.

They enter this stage usually very young, after years of catchy primary songs and societal indoctrination.
And they never leave this stage. Because it’s very hard to leave... because of the culture, and the proofs of membership (like temple recommends).

It’s highly looked down upon to advance to the next stage. Because the next stage does not NEED an institution.

So, as a result, a TBM is locked into stage 3 forever and ever and ever.... because stage 4 disqualifies one as a TBM.
How fitting. We are taught in our TBM institution that our progression continues AFTER WE DIE. All is well in this life... just keep following the rules. No progressing past stage 3. We shall progress in the next life.

I read something once that said something to the affect of: if your group or church or religion tells you of rewards AFTER you die, you are in a cult.

So interesting.

I archived an audio presentation from John Paulien who is a 7th Day Adventist and he covers Fowler's stages of faith. I listen to this at least once per year and it is incredibly powerful, especially the part about the war vet and his calling. I think that understanding these stages is a pretty good framework for ministering to others and also realizing what to do with ourselves when we find ourselves in unfamiliar territory on our faith journey.

https://oneclimbs.com/2015/08/13/audio- ... n-paulien/

I loved that oneclimbs, fantastic stuff.