Poll: LDS church is true, but everyone is false?

[LukeAir2008]

The Lord called on the church in 1831 to BECOME the true and living church in D&C 1:30. He didn’t indicate it had become such, or that he was yet well pleased with it.

Joseph’s pleading in 1836 at the Kirtland temple dedication that the church may yet come forth out of the wilderness of darkness (D&C 109:73) seems to indicate the church hadn’t become “true and living” by that point either.

When that prayer was given, the gospel hadn’t yet been fully restored - it was an ongoing process. There were no temple ordinances and no keys or sealing power to complete those future ordinances. The whole point of the Kirtland Temole was to have an edifice where those things could be restored. Kirtland was a preparatory Temple.

[Silver Pie]

I have found in my journey that any organization claiming to be the one true path is most definitely not.

Does that include the proclamation of John the Baptist and the original 12 apostles?

I honestly believe that neither John the Baptist nor the original apostles started or had an organization, let alone proclaiming that any organization was the one true path.

Jesus is the one true path. Organizations spring up around him. Organizations spring up claiming to be his. Organizations spring up around even true prophets, but I think God does not prefer formally organized entities.

[InfoWarrior82]

I have found in my journey that any organization claiming to be the one true path is most definitely not.

Does that include the proclamation of John the Baptist and the original 12 apostles?

I honestly believe that neither John the Baptist nor the original apostles started or had an organization, let alone proclaiming that any organization was the one true path.

Jesus is the one true path. Organizations spring up around him. Organizations spring up claiming to be his. Organizations spring up around even true prophets, but I think God does not prefer formally organized entities.

What? Are you saying the Lord doesn't like 501c3 corporations?!!??? (Sarcasm)

[Silver Pie]

What? Are you saying the Lord doesn't like 501c3 corporations?!!??? (Sarcasm)

[FoundMyEden]

I have found in my journey that any organization claiming to be the one true path is most definitely not.

Does that include the proclamation of John the Baptist and the original 12 apostles?

I honestly believe that neither John the Baptist nor the original apostles started or had an organization, let alone proclaiming that any organization was the one true path.

Jesus is the one true path. Organizations spring up around him. Organizations spring up claiming to be his. Organizations spring up around even true prophets, but I think God does not prefer formally organized entities.

Although I agree with you that Jesus is the one true way, how would you conclude that he spread this message throughout the world without some sort of semi-organized plan on how to do that?
He gave us certain ordinances to prepare us to receive him after he died. Just wondering what your thoughts are.

[Silver Pie]

Although I agree with you that Jesus is the one true way, how would you conclude that he spread this message throughout the world without some sort of semi-organized plan on how to do that?
He gave us certain ordinances to prepare us to receive him after he died. Just wondering what your thoughts are.

I know it can be difficult to wrap one's mind around, but I didn't say he didn't have a plan, nor that ordinances are not required. I believe there was no organization with a man at the head who held it all together (Peter, for example. Or Paul). I believe Jesus never intended there to be a legally organized entity, nor did he intend there to be a man at the head who was the intercessor between humans and Jesus.

I believe that prophets were never supposed to create organized religions; that they were/are only to preach as personal witnesses to Jesus' suffering, death, and resurrection, as well as whatever message Jesus wants delivered.

I believe the priesthood of God (whether Aaronic or Melchizedek) is independent of any sect, and that the Aaronic priesthood can be passed from man to man, independent of any organization.

I believe the Melchizedek priesthood can only be given by God.

I believe that missionaries should be called by God without a human intercessory telling them they are called as missionaries, or that God wants them to go here or there.

I believe that the purpose of preaching repentance is not only so people will stop being mean to each other, but so that they can at some point be brought back into the presence of God in this life (being redeemed from the fall, which kicked people out from the presence of God).

I believe that temples are supposed to be divine reenactments of this, and that they need not be built by some some religious organization or other, but only by God's command to a group of people open enough to God to hear his voice and obey only him.

I believe that baptism should not require the person to join some sect or other, and that the gift of the Holy Ghost can only be given by God (instead of a man who has been told by another man, or by tradition, that he now has the right to give the gift of the Holy Ghost).

I believe the only churches that matter are the church of the devil and the church of the Holy One of Israel (Jesus), and that we, by default, are of the church of the devil - but that God wants us to be part of his church, and if we are humble enough (open to God's teachings) we can eventually become a part of his church.

I believe that the two churches are the state of our hearts, not some organization (legal or otherwise, religious or otherwise, political or otherwise, etc.) that meets in buildings.

edit: added a missing word.

[cab]

The Lord called on the church in 1831 to BECOME the true and living church in D&C 1:30. He didn’t indicate it had become such, or that he was yet well pleased with it.

Joseph’s pleading in 1836 at the Kirtland temple dedication that the church may yet come forth out of the wilderness of darkness (D&C 109:73) seems to indicate the church hadn’t become “true and living” by that point either.

When that prayer was given, the gospel hadn’t yet been fully restored - it was an ongoing process. There were no temple ordinances and no keys or sealing power to complete those future ordinances. The whole point of the Kirtland Temole was to have an edifice where those things could be restored. Kirtland was a preparatory Temple.

Right. But my point is that in both 1831 (D&C 1) and 1836 (D&C 109), the Lord was calling on the people to emerge from the wilderness of obscurity and darkness and become the true and living church. I am not aware of anywhere that the Lord pronounces that the church actually was “true and living” or that he was “well pleased” with it collectively.

I fear that we heap these praises upon ourselves (in our incessant repetition of D&C 1:30) without actually ever meriting them. This vanity is a sure way to remain condemned before the Lord.

[BeNotDeceived]

I chose "other" because: It's complicated.

Yea, especially in light of this:

With USGS update as is quite common as per the posted video.

Me rode out a 7.0 mere weeks after signing me life away for a parcel of property with a most peculiar address much resembling the next planned moon shadow crossing of the North American continent.

Where oh where doth the DS descend in the latest bunch of lackluster apostles fondly referenced as the Fab 15? 8.1 may be next expected as per the logical progression as per me recent post in a thread with title: EARTHQUAKES, or logic dictates no one should be expecting nothin’.

[BeNotDeceived]

But just now I switched me vote back to choice #1 to make it be 43% and now the remainder truly is 57%. I believe in number fifty seven anomalies, so maybe my current choice is correct.

Gotta love ya, man.

Just switched me vote to “Other” to regain 43/57% ratio.

Gotta love it, when a plan comes together.

[Alaris]

But just now I switched me vote back to choice #1 to make it be 43% and now the remainder truly is 57%. I believe in number fifty seven anomalies, so maybe my current choice is correct.

Gotta love ya, man.

Just switched me vote to “Other” to regain 43/57% ratio.

Gotta love it, when a plan comes together.

Joseph Smith is an Archangel.
Brigham Young was lost and all of them are lost up until Russel Nelson. Sorry guys. They are all lost.

It was Hyrum and Joseph who were martyred by John Taylor and William (he wrote down Joseph Smith's will.)

So....other.... the same as it was in other as it was in 2019 and before.

[Fred]

The problem with any organization existing under a legal charter, is that the governing body of the legal charter becomes the leader, boss, head, chief, king, or whatever. Jesus and God are automatically not in charge and are delegated to following the "higher" authority. In this case the higher authority is the US government.

Who owns your land if it can be taken from you legally without your permission, as in neglecting to pay property tax? Who is actually in charge of a church that can lose it's 501 (C)3 or business license without asking either Jesus or God? If God is in charge, no man can remove the church's authority.

The day the church became a corporation is the day that God was no longer the boss.

Jesus was never subservient to government. That is what got him killed. Professing to have a higher power. But even when they killed Jesus, the church still lived. Because it was not a corporation. It was still ran by Jesus and oversaw by God.

Today's church does not pretend to have a higher power except in secret to members only. President Hinckley said on national TV that he did not speak with God or receive direct revelation. Such things are only said in church by other GAs.

[JandD6572]

I struggled for nearly 58 years attending this church, I was never happy. there are many things I don't either agree with or have not the desire to follow. I do believe in the book of Mormon, I do believe the church was true, maybe at one time, but not so sure anymore. There are so many things I want to believe, yet, it doesn't seem right. For instance, tithing, while I agree with charity, and assisting in feeding the poor, the hungry, etc. I can't accept that if you are not paying a full tithing, a tithing to their dictation, you are not worthy to stand before God. what church ever, paints a God, that will not accept his children into his kingdom, because they were poor? This is just one of many points of why I left this church. I so wanted it to be true, I so wanted to believe it was, but the true church, in my mind anyway, should be a church that brings peace, and brings happiness, none of which this church has ever done for me. There is too much for me to share here, about why I don't feel this is true any longer. so I will just leave it with this one little example.

[ransomme]

A church cannot be true. Truth exists in ordinances, the Gospel, teachings, fruits, actions, etc and always needs to be witnessed and or sealed by the Spirit.

The current community/the Church is in apostasy but is not irredeemable.

[JandD6572]

Although I agree with you that Jesus is the one true way, how would you conclude that he spread this message throughout the world without some sort of semi-organized plan on how to do that?
He gave us certain ordinances to prepare us to receive him after he died. Just wondering what your thoughts are.

I know it can be difficult to wrap one's mind around, but I didn't say he didn't have a plan, nor that ordinances are not required. I believe there was no organization with a man at the head who held it all together (Peter, for example. Or Paul). I believe Jesus never intended there to be a legally organized entity, nor did he intend there to be a man at the head who was the intercessor between humans and Jesus.

I believe that prophets were never supposed to create organized religions; that they were/are only to preach as personal witnesses to Jesus' suffering, death, and resurrection, as well as whatever message Jesus wants delivered.

I believe the priesthood of God (whether Aaronic or Melchizedek) is independent of any sect, and that the Aaronic priesthood can be passed from man to man, independent of any organization.

I believe the Melchizedek priesthood can only be given by God.

I believe that missionaries should be called by God without a human intercessory telling them they are called as missionaries, or that God wants them to go here or there.

I believe that the purpose of preaching repentance is not only so people will stop being mean to each other, but so that they can at some point be brought back into the presence of God in this life (being redeemed from the fall, which kicked people out from the presence of God).

I believe that temples are supposed to be divine reenactments of this, and that they need not be built by some some religious organization or other, but only by God's command to a group of people open enough to God to hear his voice and obey only him.

I believe that baptism should not require the person to join some sect or other, and that the gift of the Holy Ghost can only be given by God (instead of a man who has been told by another man, or by tradition, that he now has the right to give the gift of the Holy Ghost).

I believe the only churches that matter are the church of the devil and the church of the Holy One of Israel (Jesus), and that we, by default, are of the church of the devil - but that God wants us to be part of his church, and if we are humble enough (open to God's teachings) we can eventually become a part of his church.

I believe that the two churches are the state of our hearts, not some organization (legal or otherwise, religious or otherwise, political or otherwise, etc.) that meets in buildings.

edit: added a missing word.

this is where I am leaning, though I have been a member for over 50 plus years, I struggle with what the church calls its "authority" the Mormons are taught from as early in life as possible, to teach they are the one and true church, and that the holy spirit confirms this, so, therefore, it must be the only true church. But still, I have a neighbor, who is Jehovah's witness, we've had a lot of talks, but you know what they teach, the very same thing, they are the one and true church, because the holy spirit witness this to them. When the Mormon church hears other churches proclaiming this, their answer is they are deceived by satan, funny really, all other churches who claim to be the one true church, all say the same thing about the others. Since I've left "THE" church, I have been so much at peace, so much happier, and much calmer. I have a hard time believing, Jesus would make his one true church so complicated, so difficult and so burdensome when everything he taught was the complete opposite. But, this has been the result of my own searching, so therefor, merely my own opinion.

[Luke]

A church cannot be true. Truth exists in ordinances, the Gospel, teachings, fruits, actions, etc and always needs to be witnessed and or sealed by the Spirit.

The current community/the Church is in apostasy but is not irredeemable.

Yeah, the phrase “the Church is/isn’t true” doesn’t make any sense.

[Niemand]

A church cannot be true. Truth exists in ordinances, the Gospel, teachings, fruits, actions, etc and always needs to be witnessed and or sealed by the Spirit.

The current community/the Church is in apostasy but is not irredeemable.

Yeah, the phrase “the Church is/isn’t true” doesn’t make any sense.

As someone who was once a non-member, it can sound bizarre like they're talking about something like Nessie/Bigfoot/Flying Saucers or that they think the building they're standing in doesn't really exist.

You can find truth in the church, but there is also a lot of untruth in the church. At a recent stake conference, a member of the SP said we should obey the government without question and it was a test from God. Just so untrue on so many levels. I don't know if any of our Chinese ward members were in, but some of them may have a very different view. We had one whose father was a CCP official and was scared about what would happen if he found out.

[Mamabear]

Although I agree with you that Jesus is the one true way, how would you conclude that he spread this message throughout the world without some sort of semi-organized plan on how to do that?
He gave us certain ordinances to prepare us to receive him after he died. Just wondering what your thoughts are.

I know it can be difficult to wrap one's mind around, but I didn't say he didn't have a plan, nor that ordinances are not required. I believe there was no organization with a man at the head who held it all together (Peter, for example. Or Paul). I believe Jesus never intended there to be a legally organized entity, nor did he intend there to be a man at the head who was the intercessor between humans and Jesus.

I believe that prophets were never supposed to create organized religions; that they were/are only to preach as personal witnesses to Jesus' suffering, death, and resurrection, as well as whatever message Jesus wants delivered.

I believe the priesthood of God (whether Aaronic or Melchizedek) is independent of any sect, and that the Aaronic priesthood can be passed from man to man, independent of any organization.

I believe the Melchizedek priesthood can only be given by God.

I believe that missionaries should be called by God without a human intercessory telling them they are called as missionaries, or that God wants them to go here or there.

I believe that the purpose of preaching repentance is not only so people will stop being mean to each other, but so that they can at some point be brought back into the presence of God in this life (being redeemed from the fall, which kicked people out from the presence of God).

I believe that temples are supposed to be divine reenactments of this, and that they need not be built by some some religious organization or other, but only by God's command to a group of people open enough to God to hear his voice and obey only him.

I believe that baptism should not require the person to join some sect or other, and that the gift of the Holy Ghost can only be given by God (instead of a man who has been told by another man, or by tradition, that he now has the right to give the gift of the Holy Ghost).

I believe the only churches that matter are the church of the devil and the church of the Holy One of Israel (Jesus), and that we, by default, are of the church of the devil - but that God wants us to be part of his church, and if we are humble enough (open to God's teachings) we can eventually become a part of his church.

I believe that the two churches are the state of our hearts, not some organization (legal or otherwise, religious or otherwise, political or otherwise, etc.) that meets in buildings.

edit: added a missing word.

this is where I am leaning, though I have been a member for over 50 plus years, I struggle with what the church calls its "authority" the Mormons are taught from as early in life as possible, to teach they are the one and true church, and that the holy spirit confirms this, so, therefore, it must be the only true church. But still, I have a neighbor, who is Jehovah's witness, we've had a lot of talks, but you know what they teach, the very same thing, they are the one and true church, because the holy spirit witness this to them. When the Mormon church hears other churches proclaiming this, their answer is they are deceived by satan, funny really, all other churches who claim to be the one true church, all say the same thing about the others. Since I've left "THE" church, I have been so much at peace, so much happier, and much calmer. I have a hard time believing, Jesus would make his one true church so complicated, so difficult and so burdensome when everything he taught was the complete opposite. But, this has been the result of my own searching, so therefor, merely my own opinion.

I agree with you. My opinion is all religions are man made, full of lies, corrupt, and greedy.

[Christianlee]

I once heard a preacher remark on whether we are saved by faith or by works. His only response was we are saved by Jesus.

To the extent we find Jesus being exemplified and taught within the Church, the Church is true. Joseph Smith had a unique experience with the Godhead. We cannot claim that experience simply because men have legalistically claimed to have passed the priesthood by the laying on of hands from one generation to the next. The power is not automatically passed onto each generation. To the extent we see that power manifest we can be assured Jesus is still there.

Look for that. Other churches make the same claim.

[ithink]

I'm amazed about the amount of backlash I see on this forum regarding President Nelson or past presidents. I believe that the current prophet is the Mouth of God, and when it comes to religion, administration, doctrine, money, etc I don't have to worry about following and believing his words.

There are many in this forum that have other opinions and I am curious about the beliefs of others here and to see how common different beliefs are.

How is it possible to pay tithing and go to the temple but not believe in current prophets? How can the church be true but the prophet is false?

IMHO, and this is only my opinion. Everyone at this forum came here for the same reason, though they cannot or will not admit it. Deep down inside, at your innermost core, beyond even your ability to consciously access directly, is a sinking feeling that something is wrong. Something very, very wrong. The fact you sense that is good. What you need to do is trust yourself. You also need to ensure that you are fair, above all else, to those around you. (Note: do not confuse being fair with being nice as being fair sometimes means shooting a lame horse).

[ithink]

Oh, and of the 5 poll options, one is true, but only one.

[The Red Pill]

Personally I believe the "church" went into apostasy when Joseph and Hyrum were murdered. The gospel has mostly survived, but even that was corrupted by false doctrines and false beliefs such as blood atonement, Adam God theory, polygamy, blacks not holding priesthood, infallibility of the apostles and the doctrine of self reliance as opposed to a Zion society.

Some leaders have been better than others through the years and some of the false doctrines have been reversed, but not all.

The church is under condemnation because it has never come clean on it's past mistakes and doctored history. The "acting no hypocrisy and no deception" applies to the organizational church as much as it does individuals. The clot-shot being the most recent example.

Joseph Smith never believed or taught in the infallibility of church leaders. (Can't lead you astray doctrine) I believe that is currently one of the biggest stumbling blocks the institutional church has.

The current church is still in a state of apostasy.

[LDS Watchman]

My opinion is all religions are man made, full of lies, corrupt, and greedy.

I had a feeling that it wouldn't be long before you said something like this.

So do you now consider Christianity to be man made? Do you no longer believe in Jesus Christ as the Savior of the world as testified of in the Bible and other holy scriptures?

[LDS Watchman]

A church cannot be true. Truth exists in ordinances, the Gospel, teachings, fruits, actions, etc and always needs to be witnessed and or sealed by the Spirit.

The current community/the Church is in apostasy but is not irredeemable.

Yeah, the phrase “the Church is/isn’t true” doesn’t make any sense.

So how do you explain D&C 1:30 then, where Christ refers to the church he restored through Joseph Smith as "the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth?"

[Silver Pie]

this is where I am leaning, though I have been a member for over 50 plus years, I struggle with what the church calls its "authority" the Mormons are taught from as early in life as possible, to teach they are the one and true church, and that the holy spirit confirms this, so, therefore, it must be the only true church. But still, I have a neighbor, who is Jehovah's witness, we've had a lot of talks, but you know what they teach, the very same thing, they are the one and true church, because the holy spirit witness this to them. When the Mormon church hears other churches proclaiming this, their answer is they are deceived by satan, funny really, all other churches who claim to be the one true church, all say the same thing about the others. Since I've left "THE" church, I have been so much at peace, so much happier, and much calmer. I have a hard time believing, Jesus would make his one true church so complicated, so difficult and so burdensome when everything he taught was the complete opposite. But, this has been the result of my own searching, so therefor, merely my own opinion.

It reminds me of 2 Nephi 28:3-5. We were always taught that this didn't include the LDS Church, but it surely does.

For it shall come to pass in that day that the churches which are built up, and not unto the Lord, when the one shall say unto the other: Behold, I, I am the Lord's; and the others shall say: I, I am the Lord's; and thus shall every one say that hath built up churches, and not unto the Lord— And they shall contend one with another; and their priests shall contend one with another, and they shall teach with their learning, and deny the Holy Ghost, which giveth utterance. And they deny the power of God, the Holy One of Israel; and they say unto the people: Hearken unto us, and hear ye our precept; for behold there is no God today, for the Lord and the Redeemer hath done his work, and he hath given his power unto men;

[Mamabear]

My opinion is all religions are man made, full of lies, corrupt, and greedy.

I had a feeling that it wouldn't be long before you said something like this.

So do you now consider Christianity to be man made? Do you no longer believe in Jesus Christ as the Savior of the world as testified of in the Bible and other holy scriptures?

LOL