I'm confused;

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BroJones
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Re: I'm confused;

Post by BroJones »

Nevervaxxed wrote: October 27th, 2022, 4:39 pm I have been active LDS virtually my entire life. I've been in Bishoprics, been YM Pres, EQ Pres, High Councilman, etc... but when the 1st presidency began urging membership to get the clot shot, followed by many of the brethren declaring these killer jabs as "safe & effective", I was deeply disturbed, and it's only gotteen worse, especially as I've seen friends and family die and/or have serious health problems from them. Since then, my eyes have been opened, and I'm more confused than ever. It seems like a lot of if not most of church h leadership have become "woke". We seen large donations of tithes and offerings going to woke (Satanic) organizations like the UN. I hear brethren basically regurgitating leftist talking points, especially about non-existent "racism", such as what happened at BYU Women's volleyball, where none of what was accussed happened. I'm bewildered. Things about the church that never bothered me before are now very disconcerting, such as the similarities between our temple ordinances & signs and the Masonic lodge. Now I'm seeing multiple accusations toward the church as being part of a CIA mind control program called Monarch, and accusations of long term physical and serial abuse of children as part of this program. I'm hearing about the "Left hand of God" within the LDS church, and many of those making the allegations don't appear to have much to gain by doing so. I'm truly confused.

While I still have a strong testimony of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, as of right now I have zero faith in the church as an organization. Has the church h "fallen"? If so, how long ago? Or are many of the leaders being deceived? Am I being deceived? How can I pay tithes that are given to satanic organization?

Bottom line; it is indeed a hard time, where evil is declared good, and vice versa. I'm hoping joining this forum and listening to those on this board can help me find peace, whether in the church, or outside it but still within the gospel of Christ.
I surely sympathize.. Strongly encourage you to "hold on", going to church etc, until end-April 2023... big changes coming in the next few months.
See my thread viewtopic.php?t=67430

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Re: I'm confused;

Post by LDS Watchman »

InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 7:05 pm
Look, here are the facts:

1. We have a literal revelation with the literal words of Jesus Christ commanding the prophet NOT TO CAVE TO GOVERNMENT DEMANDS with a promise that the saints will be kept safe by His hand.
What we have are words Wilford Woodruff wrote down as if in the first person of Jesus Christ. How he received them or if these were really the literal words of Jesus Christ or a mixture of his own thoughts and ideas at that moment in time is unknown. In any event, if it was in fact a revelation to him by the Spirit, which it very well may have been, it would have been personal revelation to him, not to the entire church. He wasn't the president of the church at that time and the words he wrote down were never presented to the church as the will of the Lord.

And there is nothing within this personal revelation to Wilford Woodruff preventing the Lord from later telling the church to end the practice.
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 7:05 pm 2. We have the words of a man who says God told him to directly contradict the literal revelation he got.
Again, it isn't the words of man. It's the words of a prophet, apostle, and President of the Lord's church declaring that he had seen a vision, received a revelation, and had been commanded by God to end the practice.

And please see those verses in D&C 124 and D&C 58 again. The Lord can command and revoke as he pleases. If the Lord revokes a command, those who were worthy and would have continued to be faithful to God's commands if they could have (like Wilford Woodruff) are relieved of that responsibility without penalty and those who were unfaithful will lose out on the blessings.
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 7:05 pm 3. The church was broke.
Yeah, so what? It had been broke in the days of Joseph Smith, too.
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 7:05 pm 4. Gadianton Robbers invited him to San Francisco to have a party together.
So members of the Bohemian grove are Gadianton Robbers now? Interesting. Got any evidence that they had made secret Satanic oaths to commit secret murder and get gain?

They seem more like the "mammon of unrighteousness" to me.
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 7:05 pm 5. He died like a day later.
He was also in his 90s and had lived a very hard life.
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 7:05 pm 6. There's no proof any church president after W.W. received a literal revelation from Jesus Christ in first person narrative.
Oh, so you demand proof now? Faith isn't good enough?

It doesn't matter whether or not a revelation is in the "first person narrative." When a servant of God is moved upon by the Holy Ghost, their words are the words, voice, mind, and will of God.

Instead of crying about no proof of "first person narrative" revelations, why not put the teachings of the Lord's servants to the test? And I'm not talking about the few here and there that you can twist. I'm talking about the bulk of their teachings that have been consistent since the days of Joseph Smith.
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 7:05 pm I'm sorry, but it doesn't add up.
I think you see what you want to see.

I'm curious though, since you're parroting the arguments of fundamentalists, when are you going to take start marrying additional wives and joining one of the fundamentalist groups or united orders? If you really believe what they preach, then this is the next step, right?

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Re: I'm confused;

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

LDS Watchman wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 8:01 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 7:05 pm
Look, here are the facts:

1. We have a literal revelation with the literal words of Jesus Christ commanding the prophet NOT TO CAVE TO GOVERNMENT DEMANDS with a promise that the saints will be kept safe by His hand.
What we have are words Wilford Woodruff wrote down as if in the first person of Jesus Christ. How he received them or if these were really the literal words of Jesus Christ or a mixture of his own thoughts and ideas at that moment in time is unknown. In any event, if it was in fact a revelation to him by the Spirit, which it very well may have been, it would have been personal revelation to him, not to the entire church. He wasn't the president of the church at that time and the words he wrote down were never presented to the church as the will of the Lord.

And there is nothing within this personal revelation to Wilford Woodruff preventing the Lord from later telling the church to end the practice.
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 7:05 pm 2. We have the words of a man who says God told him to directly contradict the literal revelation he got.
Again, it isn't the words of man. It's the words of a prophet, apostle, and President of the Lord's church declaring that he had seen a vision, received a revelation, and had been commanded by God to end the practice.

And please see those verses in D&C 124 and D&C 58 again. The Lord can command and revoke as he pleases. If the Lord revokes a command, those who were worthy and would have continued to be faithful to God's commands if they could have (like Wilford Woodruff) are relieved of that responsibility without penalty and those who were unfaithful will lose out on the blessings.
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 7:05 pm 3. The church was broke.
Yeah, so what? It had been broke in the days of Joseph Smith, too.
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 7:05 pm 4. Gadianton Robbers invited him to San Francisco to have a party together.
So members of the Bohemian grove are Gadianton Robbers now? Interesting. Got any evidence that they had made secret Satanic oaths to commit secret murder and get gain?

They seem more like the "mammon of unrighteousness" to me.
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 7:05 pm 5. He died like a day later.
He was also in his 90s and had lived a very hard life.
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 7:05 pm 6. There's no proof any church president after W.W. received a literal revelation from Jesus Christ in first person narrative.
Oh, so you demand proof now? Faith isn't good enough?

It doesn't matter whether or not a revelation is in the "first person narrative." When a servant of God is moved upon by the Holy Ghost, their words are the words, voice, mind, and will of God.

Instead of crying about no proof of "first person narrative" revelations, why not put the teachings of the Lord's servants to the test? And I'm not talking about the few here and there that you can twist. I'm talking about the bulk of their teachings that have been consistent since the days of Joseph Smith.
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 7:05 pm I'm sorry, but it doesn't add up.
I think you see what you want to see.

I'm curious though, since you're parroting the arguments of fundamentalists, when are you going to take start marrying additional wives and joining one of the fundamentalist groups or united orders? If you really believe what they preach, then this is the next step, right?


It definitely does matter that a true prophet of God will recite the exact words of the Lord. Why? Because the prophets in our scriptures all did it. It's pretty much the basic fruit of a true prophet of God. "Thus saith the Lord".

And if any of the church presidents after W.W. did receive a revelation like this, then they are hiding it. Here are the words of the Lord to the apostle Wilford Woodruff in 1880:

https://historyofmormonism.com/2010/03/ ... evelation/
Jesus Christ wrote: And whenever any one of you receives the word of the Lord, let it be written and presented in your councils and whatever by united consent you deem wisdom to be presented unto the people, let it be presented by the President, my servant John Taylor, as the word of the Lord. In this way you will uphold him and strengthen his hands, as all the burden should not lie upon one man.


And the fact that you don't get that the Bohemian Grove folks are part of the Gadianton Robber Secret Combinations is a bit troubling since your handle is "LDS Watchman". I highly suggest you watch "Dark Secrets Inside Bohemian Grove" documentary on Rumble to see how satanic it is.

Nevervaxxed
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Re: I'm confused;

Post by Nevervaxxed »

LDS Watchmen,
Why do you insist on creating strawman arguments? Why do you say I said Christ taught his disciples to rebell against authority? I never said anything like that. I said Christ stood against the powers that be during his lifetime, and was killed for it. "Do what is right let the consequence follow". That's what Christ did; not out of rebellion to proper authority, but simple doing the "right thing", regardless of consequence! That is the point, not the diatribe you departed onto just to confuse. Today's church leaders don't stand against the evil woke authorities; they praise them...

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Re: I'm confused;

Post by Nevervaxxed »

Reluctant Watchman,
You have given me much to contemplate. Thank you. I just watched a video with a woman who wrote a book about JS never being a polygamist - very interesting & disturbing at the same time; if true, JS was NOT a fallen prophet, he was killed by evil men trying to take power, but obviously that increases my doubts about the state of the current church and it leaders...

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Re: I'm confused;

Post by LDS Watchman »

Nevervaxxed wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 9:38 pm LDS Watchmen,
Why do you insist on creating strawman arguments? Why do you say I said Christ taught his disciples to rebell against authority? I never said anything like that. I said Christ stood against the powers that be during his lifetime, and was killed for it. "Do what is right let the consequence follow". That's what Christ did; not out of rebellion to proper authority, but simple doing the "right thing", regardless of consequence! That is the point, not the diatribe you departed onto just to confuse. Today's church leaders don't stand against the evil woke authorities; they praise them...
I didn't create strawman argument. The whole point is that Jesus did not teach anyone to challenge the authority of the governments they were under, even an very unjust and cruel government, like Rome. He didn't say anything to undermine the authority of Rome or to encourage his followers to disregard any of the laws Rome placed upon them. He always taught to submit the the authority of the government. He didn't say that it as soon as the authorities become "woke" or "evil" that we are required to stand against them.

Is it the right thing to challenge and undermine the authority of the government and bring unnecessary trouble upon the church that could be avoided if the church submits?

As for praising worldly authorities, you do realize that Daniel praised the King of Babylon, right?

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Re: I'm confused;

Post by madvin »

The King of Babylon is a far cry from these new world order 'leaders' we have now. (much less evil)

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Re: I'm confused;

Post by LDS Watchman »

Nevervaxxed wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 9:46 pm Reluctant Watchman,
You have given me much to contemplate. Thank you. I just watched a video with a woman who wrote a book about JS never being a polygamist - very interesting & disturbing at the same time; if true, JS was NOT a fallen prophet, he was killed by evil men trying to take power, but obviously that increases my doubts about the state of the current church and it leaders...
The Joseph Smith wasn't a polygamist narrative is not in harmony with reality. While a few isolated pieces of evidence can be used to make this argument, the entire body of evidence overwhelming proves that he was in fact a polygamist.

Whether he was a fallen or false prophet over this or whether he remained true and faithful to God because God commanded it is really the only thing that is open for debate without throwing most of the evidence out the window.

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Re: I'm confused;

Post by LDS Watchman »

madvin wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 11:04 pm The King of Babylon is a far cry from these new world order 'leaders' we have now. (much less evil)
How so?

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Re: I'm confused;

Post by LDS Watchman »

InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 8:59 pm
It definitely does matter that a true prophet of God will recite the exact words of the Lord. Why? Because the prophets in our scriptures all did it. It's pretty much the basic fruit of a true prophet of God. "Thus saith the Lord".
Yeah, I get that you believe this and will cling to it until the bitter end. But nowhere in all of scripture is this established as a requirement for a true prophet. The word of the Lord is not usually delivered this way. It is typically delivered as the servants of God are moved upon by the Holy Ghost and deliver an inspired message. That message is the word, will, voice, and mind of God, regardless of whether or not it is prefaced with "thus saith the Lord."
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 8:59 pm And if any of the church presidents after W.W. did receive a revelation like this, then they are hiding it. Here are the words of the Lord to the apostle Wilford Woodruff in 1880:

https://historyofmormonism.com/2010/03/ ... evelation/
Jesus Christ wrote: And whenever any one of you receives the word of the Lord, let it be written and presented in your councils and whatever by united consent you deem wisdom to be presented unto the people, let it be presented by the President, my servant John Taylor, as the word of the Lord. In this way you will uphold him and strengthen his hands, as all the burden should not lie upon one man.
If the best you have to offer to support your argument is an unpublished revelation to an apostle that was never presented to the church as the word of God, then you don't have a very strong argument do you? And this quote doesn't even say that they have to present revelations in "first person language" anyway. I says that if they receive the word of the Lord (doesn't mention first person language) and they all feel that it should be presented to the church, then they should present it to the church. That's it. So you'll have to try again.
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 8:59 pm And the fact that you don't get that the Bohemian Grove folks are part of the Gadianton Robber Secret Combinations is a bit troubling since your handle is "LDS Watchman". I highly suggest you watch "Dark Secrets Inside Bohemian Grove" documentary on Rumble to see how satanic it is.
I know that the Bohemian grove is wicked, but Gadianton Robbers? You'll have to prove that one. Telling me to watch some video online isn't going to cut it. The last few videos you suggested were very unimpressive. Point me to some reputable sources and will check them out.

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Re: I'm confused;

Post by Nevervaxxed »

LDS Watchman,
That was never the point. YOU made it the point, thus strawman. Christ always did what was right regardless of consequence, which our current church does NOT do. That's always been my point. Holy Hell, you're impossibly obtuse.

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Re: I'm confused;

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

LDS Watchman wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 11:20 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 8:59 pm
It definitely does matter that a true prophet of God will recite the exact words of the Lord. Why? Because the prophets in our scriptures all did it. It's pretty much the basic fruit of a true prophet of God. "Thus saith the Lord".
Yeah, I get that you believe this and will cling to it until the bitter end. But nowhere in all of scripture is this established as a requirement for a true prophet. The word of the Lord is not usually delivered this way. It is typically delivered as the servants of God are moved upon by the Holy Ghost and deliver an inspired message. That message is the word, will, voice, and mind of God, regardless of whether or not it is prefaced with "thus saith the Lord."
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 8:59 pm And if any of the church presidents after W.W. did receive a revelation like this, then they are hiding it. Here are the words of the Lord to the apostle Wilford Woodruff in 1880:

https://historyofmormonism.com/2010/03/ ... evelation/
Jesus Christ wrote: And whenever any one of you receives the word of the Lord, let it be written and presented in your councils and whatever by united consent you deem wisdom to be presented unto the people, let it be presented by the President, my servant John Taylor, as the word of the Lord. In this way you will uphold him and strengthen his hands, as all the burden should not lie upon one man.
If the best you have to offer to support your argument is an unpublished revelation to an apostle that was never presented to the church as the word of God, then you don't have a very strong argument do you? And this quote doesn't even say that they have to present revelations in "first person language" anyway. I says that if they receive the word of the Lord (doesn't mention first person language) and they all feel that it should be presented to the church, then they should present it to the church. That's it. So you'll have to try again.
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 8:59 pm And the fact that you don't get that the Bohemian Grove folks are part of the Gadianton Robber Secret Combinations is a bit troubling since your handle is "LDS Watchman". I highly suggest you watch "Dark Secrets Inside Bohemian Grove" documentary on Rumble to see how satanic it is.
I know that the Bohemian grove is wicked, but Gadianton Robbers? You'll have to prove that one. Telling me to watch some video online isn't going to cut it. The last few videos you suggested were very unimpressive. Point me to some reputable sources and will check them out.
This is a fruit that all prophets in our scriptures have. From Adam all the way down to President Woodruff. Then.... Abruptly stops. Very curious. And it doesn't register as curious with people like you for some strange reason. Maybe it's one of those things that you've never even thought about until now?

So footage from within the Grove of the cremation of care ceremony wasn't impressive for you???? Weird...

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Re: I'm confused;

Post by ransomme »

LDS Watchman wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 8:01 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 7:05 pm
Look, here are the facts:

1. We have a literal revelation with the literal words of Jesus Christ commanding the prophet NOT TO CAVE TO GOVERNMENT DEMANDS with a promise that the saints will be kept safe by His hand.
What we have are words Wilford Woodruff wrote down as if in the first person of Jesus Christ. How he received them or if these were really the literal words of Jesus Christ or a mixture of his own thoughts and ideas at that moment in time is unknown. In any event, if it was in fact a revelation to him by the Spirit, which it very well may have been, it would have been personal revelation to him, not to the entire church. He wasn't the president of the church at that time and the words he wrote down were never presented to the church as the will of the Lord.

And there is nothing within this personal revelation to Wilford Woodruff preventing the Lord from later telling the church to end the practice.
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 7:05 pm 2. We have the words of a man who says God told him to directly contradict the literal revelation he got.
Again, it isn't the words of man. It's the words of a prophet, apostle, and President of the Lord's church declaring that he had seen a vision, received a revelation, and had been commanded by God to end the practice.

And please see those verses in D&C 124 and D&C 58 again. The Lord can command and revoke as he pleases. If the Lord revokes a command, those who were worthy and would have continued to be faithful to God's commands if they could have (like Wilford Woodruff) are relieved of that responsibility without penalty and those who were unfaithful will lose out on the blessings.
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 7:05 pm 3. The church was broke.
Yeah, so what? It had been broke in the days of Joseph Smith, too.
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 7:05 pm 4. Gadianton Robbers invited him to San Francisco to have a party together.
So members of the Bohemian grove are Gadianton Robbers now? Interesting. Got any evidence that they had made secret Satanic oaths to commit secret murder and get gain?

They seem more like the "mammon of unrighteousness" to me.
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 7:05 pm 5. He died like a day later.
He was also in his 90s and had lived a very hard life.
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 7:05 pm 6. There's no proof any church president after W.W. received a literal revelation from Jesus Christ in first person narrative.
Oh, so you demand proof now? Faith isn't good enough?

It doesn't matter whether or not a revelation is in the "first person narrative." When a servant of God is moved upon by the Holy Ghost, their words are the words, voice, mind, and will of God.

Instead of crying about no proof of "first person narrative" revelations, why not put the teachings of the Lord's servants to the test? And I'm not talking about the few here and there that you can twist. I'm talking about the bulk of their teachings that have been consistent since the days of Joseph Smith.
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 7:05 pm I'm sorry, but it doesn't add up.
I think you see what you want to see.

I'm curious though, since you're parroting the arguments of fundamentalists, when are you going to take start marrying additional wives and joining one of the fundamentalist groups or united orders? If you really believe what they preach, then this is the next step, right?
🙊🙉🙈

I'm sure lots of good people gather together in the woods and perform mock human sacrifice to Moloch.

Do you even believe that modern Gadiantons exist?

I wonder who you think they are...

There are Gadiantons and then there are Gadiantons. There are various levels. Sure there are some that give the blood oaths, but then there are many familiars who serve them, and so on.

There are more of them than most will recognize. There are many Gadiantons that don't even know that they are Gadiantons, because it's more than an single in-group. It's an archetype. Many play the role while simply in pursuit of gain and power.

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Re: I'm confused;

Post by LDS Watchman »

InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 4th, 2022, 5:42 am
This is a fruit that all prophets in our scriptures have. From Adam all the way down to President Woodruff. Then.... Abruptly stops. Very curious. And it doesn't register as curious with people like you for some strange reason. Maybe it's one of those things that you've never even thought about until now?
I have thought long and hard about why the D&C isn't full of post Joseph Smith "thus saith the Lord" revelations. My conclusion is that Joseph Smith's successors weren't prophets in the same sense that he was and that God stopped giving these types of revelations.

As for why it stopped, I don't know. I don't believe that it stopped abruptly with the Manifesto. I would say if anything it stopped abruptly with D&C 136, in 1847. This is the last published "first person revelation." So obviously the few "first person revelations" after that weren't deemed as the word of the Lord to the entire church.

I have also read all of the unpublished "first person revelations" after D&C 136, and they don't read the same as the published revelations. I think that this is just the style the men who received inspiration by the Holy Ghost chose to record their impressions in. I don't believe that these unpublished revelations constitute word for word dictation from the Lord.

I think the brethren were aware that these weren't literal word for word dictation from the Lord, so they didn't publish them as such. And beginning with Lorenzo Snow the brethren stopped recording their impressions in first person style.

I think that the final words in D&C 136 tell us that this would be the last first person revelation for a LONG time when the Lord said:

41 Now, therefore, hearken, O ye people of my church; and ye elders listen together; you have received my kingdom.
42 Be diligent in keeping all my commandments, lest judgments come upon you, and your faith fail you, and your enemies triumph over you. So no more at present. Amen and Amen.

Which to me means that there wasn't going to be new bonified "thus saith the Lord" revelation for the time being. Instead the saints were to follow the revelations they had already received.

Again, nowhere in all of scripture is it a requirement that the word of the Lord be delivered in the first person. The word of the Lord is often not delivered this way. So for me it doesn't matter that we haven't had published "first person revelations" since 1847. The brethren since then have often delivered the word of the Lord as moved upon by the Holy Ghost. And that's good enough for me.
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 4th, 2022, 5:42 am So footage from within the Grove of the cremation of care ceremony wasn't impressive for you???? Weird...
Dude, I didn't watch the video, but I know what the Cremation of Care ceremony. The ceremony doesn't include the members making Satanic oaths to commit murder and get gain.

Please show me any actual proof that the members of the Bohemian Grove have made secret Satanic oaths to commit secret murder and get gain, let alone the members of the club Wilford Woodruff met with. You have none.

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Re: I'm confused;

Post by LDS Watchman »

ransomme wrote: November 4th, 2022, 5:53 am
LDS Watchman wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 8:01 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 7:05 pm
Look, here are the facts:

1. We have a literal revelation with the literal words of Jesus Christ commanding the prophet NOT TO CAVE TO GOVERNMENT DEMANDS with a promise that the saints will be kept safe by His hand.
What we have are words Wilford Woodruff wrote down as if in the first person of Jesus Christ. How he received them or if these were really the literal words of Jesus Christ or a mixture of his own thoughts and ideas at that moment in time is unknown. In any event, if it was in fact a revelation to him by the Spirit, which it very well may have been, it would have been personal revelation to him, not to the entire church. He wasn't the president of the church at that time and the words he wrote down were never presented to the church as the will of the Lord.

And there is nothing within this personal revelation to Wilford Woodruff preventing the Lord from later telling the church to end the practice.
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 7:05 pm 2. We have the words of a man who says God told him to directly contradict the literal revelation he got.
Again, it isn't the words of man. It's the words of a prophet, apostle, and President of the Lord's church declaring that he had seen a vision, received a revelation, and had been commanded by God to end the practice.

And please see those verses in D&C 124 and D&C 58 again. The Lord can command and revoke as he pleases. If the Lord revokes a command, those who were worthy and would have continued to be faithful to God's commands if they could have (like Wilford Woodruff) are relieved of that responsibility without penalty and those who were unfaithful will lose out on the blessings.
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 7:05 pm 3. The church was broke.
Yeah, so what? It had been broke in the days of Joseph Smith, too.
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 7:05 pm 4. Gadianton Robbers invited him to San Francisco to have a party together.
So members of the Bohemian grove are Gadianton Robbers now? Interesting. Got any evidence that they had made secret Satanic oaths to commit secret murder and get gain?

They seem more like the "mammon of unrighteousness" to me.
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 7:05 pm 5. He died like a day later.
He was also in his 90s and had lived a very hard life.
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 7:05 pm 6. There's no proof any church president after W.W. received a literal revelation from Jesus Christ in first person narrative.
Oh, so you demand proof now? Faith isn't good enough?

It doesn't matter whether or not a revelation is in the "first person narrative." When a servant of God is moved upon by the Holy Ghost, their words are the words, voice, mind, and will of God.

Instead of crying about no proof of "first person narrative" revelations, why not put the teachings of the Lord's servants to the test? And I'm not talking about the few here and there that you can twist. I'm talking about the bulk of their teachings that have been consistent since the days of Joseph Smith.
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 7:05 pm I'm sorry, but it doesn't add up.
I think you see what you want to see.

I'm curious though, since you're parroting the arguments of fundamentalists, when are you going to take start marrying additional wives and joining one of the fundamentalist groups or united orders? If you really believe what they preach, then this is the next step, right?
🙊🙉🙈

I'm sure lots of good people gather together in the woods and perform mock human sacrifice to Moloch.

Do you even believe that modern Gadiantons exist?

I wonder who you think they are...

There are Gadiantons and then there are Gadiantons. There are various levels. Sure there are some that give the blood oaths, but then there are many familiars who serve them, and so on.

There are more of them than most will recognize. There are many Gadiantons that don't even know that they are Gadiantons, because it's more than an single in-group. It's an archetype. Many play the role while simply in pursuit of gain and power.
I believe that modern Gadianton Robbers exist. If people have proof that someone is a Gadianton Robber I'm happy to look at it, but I'm not really interested in unproven theories intended to slander the leaders of the Lord's church.

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ransomme
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1551

Re: I'm confused;

Post by ransomme »

LDS Watchman wrote: November 4th, 2022, 7:32 am
ransomme wrote: November 4th, 2022, 5:53 am
LDS Watchman wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 8:01 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 7:05 pm
Look, here are the facts:

1. We have a literal revelation with the literal words of Jesus Christ commanding the prophet NOT TO CAVE TO GOVERNMENT DEMANDS with a promise that the saints will be kept safe by His hand.
What we have are words Wilford Woodruff wrote down as if in the first person of Jesus Christ. How he received them or if these were really the literal words of Jesus Christ or a mixture of his own thoughts and ideas at that moment in time is unknown. In any event, if it was in fact a revelation to him by the Spirit, which it very well may have been, it would have been personal revelation to him, not to the entire church. He wasn't the president of the church at that time and the words he wrote down were never presented to the church as the will of the Lord.

And there is nothing within this personal revelation to Wilford Woodruff preventing the Lord from later telling the church to end the practice.
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 7:05 pm 2. We have the words of a man who says God told him to directly contradict the literal revelation he got.
Again, it isn't the words of man. It's the words of a prophet, apostle, and President of the Lord's church declaring that he had seen a vision, received a revelation, and had been commanded by God to end the practice.

And please see those verses in D&C 124 and D&C 58 again. The Lord can command and revoke as he pleases. If the Lord revokes a command, those who were worthy and would have continued to be faithful to God's commands if they could have (like Wilford Woodruff) are relieved of that responsibility without penalty and those who were unfaithful will lose out on the blessings.
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 7:05 pm 3. The church was broke.
Yeah, so what? It had been broke in the days of Joseph Smith, too.
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 7:05 pm 4. Gadianton Robbers invited him to San Francisco to have a party together.
So members of the Bohemian grove are Gadianton Robbers now? Interesting. Got any evidence that they had made secret Satanic oaths to commit secret murder and get gain?

They seem more like the "mammon of unrighteousness" to me.
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 7:05 pm 5. He died like a day later.
He was also in his 90s and had lived a very hard life.
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 7:05 pm 6. There's no proof any church president after W.W. received a literal revelation from Jesus Christ in first person narrative.
Oh, so you demand proof now? Faith isn't good enough?

It doesn't matter whether or not a revelation is in the "first person narrative." When a servant of God is moved upon by the Holy Ghost, their words are the words, voice, mind, and will of God.

Instead of crying about no proof of "first person narrative" revelations, why not put the teachings of the Lord's servants to the test? And I'm not talking about the few here and there that you can twist. I'm talking about the bulk of their teachings that have been consistent since the days of Joseph Smith.
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 7:05 pm I'm sorry, but it doesn't add up.
I think you see what you want to see.

I'm curious though, since you're parroting the arguments of fundamentalists, when are you going to take start marrying additional wives and joining one of the fundamentalist groups or united orders? If you really believe what they preach, then this is the next step, right?
🙊🙉🙈

I'm sure lots of good people gather together in the woods and perform mock human sacrifice to Moloch.

Do you even believe that modern Gadiantons exist?

I wonder who you think they are...

There are Gadiantons and then there are Gadiantons. There are various levels. Sure there are some that give the blood oaths, but then there are many familiars who serve them, and so on.

There are more of them than most will recognize. There are many Gadiantons that don't even know that they are Gadiantons, because it's more than an single in-group. It's an archetype. Many play the role while simply in pursuit of gain and power.
I believe that modern Gadianton Robbers exist. If people have proof that someone is a Gadianton Robber I'm happy to look at it, but I'm not really interested in unproven theories intended to slander the leaders of the Lord's church.
lol you need proof for each individual? sure, ok. Maybe if we ask them nicely they will admit it...

As I alluded to, the inner circle of real blood oathers that are in the know is probably small. Most people are just useful idiots and easily won over by the allure of power and gain. Secret Combinations are not only participated in by Master Mahan types. Secret combinations can be had by all, including any that uphold them. The robber barons that WW met with definitely meet the criteria of informal (if not formal (there is plenty on Rockerfellers and similar)) Gadiantons seeking power and gain at the expense of many human lives and much human suffering.

Ether 8
22 And whatsoever nation shall uphold such secret combinations, to get power and gain, until they shall spread over the nation, behold, they shall be destroyed; for the Lord will not suffer that the blood of his saints, which shall be shed by them, shall always cry unto him from the ground for vengeance upon them and yet he avenge them not.
23 Wherefore, O ye Gentiles, it is wisdom in God that these things should be shown unto you, that thereby ye may repent of your sins, and suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you, which are built up to get power and gain—and the work, yea, even the work of destruction come upon you, yea, even the sword of the justice of the Eternal God shall fall upon you, to your overthrow and destruction if ye shall suffer these things to be.
24 Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you; or wo be unto it, because of the blood of them who have been slain; for they cry from the dust for vengeance upon it, and also upon those who built it up.
25 For it cometh to pass that whoso buildeth it up seeketh to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries; and it bringeth to pass the destruction of all people, for it is built up by the devil, who is the father of all lies; even that same liar who beguiled our first parents, yea, even that same liar who hath caused man to commit murder from the beginning; who hath hardened the hearts of men that they have murdered the prophets, and stoned them, and cast them out from the beginning.

Especially since WWII the US fits the pattern of such a nation. I'm sure that you'll dismiss it all, but someday your bubble will pop. And the consequences for the US will be that as a nation it will place the last straw on the proverbial camel's back to break the covenant that is on the land of America. It will lose its protection, which will immediately precede the events leading to the Day of the Lord.

A few ways that the US upholds SCs for power and gain (oh and many die along the way during the pursuit). US's neo-colonialism, especially in banana republics. The US's military-industrial complex (MIC) promotes war around the world including (wanting) the current Russian-Ukraine conflict (which could easily expand across the globe). What's better than an endless war like the War on (pick your nebulous term)? The MIC loves regime change. The MIC is the world's #1 arms dealer in the world. US's strong-arm tactics, using its political and economic might to push the profits of US corporations (1 example was in Clinton's email via wikileaks showing the state dept. trying to influence countries into accepting Monsatan's...err Monsanto's GMOs). The massive public-private partnerships, both formal and informal/secret, are used to subvert the law (with Big Pharmakeia, Big Tech, etc.). And Covid was a good case in point, with the Govt and Big Pharma working together for power and gain at the expense of lives. Even during the short aftermath thus far, it is becoming clear.

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ransomme
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1551

Re: I'm confused;

Post by ransomme »

LDS Watchman wrote: November 4th, 2022, 7:32 am
ransomme wrote: November 4th, 2022, 5:53 am
LDS Watchman wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 8:01 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 7:05 pm
Look, here are the facts:

1. We have a literal revelation with the literal words of Jesus Christ commanding the prophet NOT TO CAVE TO GOVERNMENT DEMANDS with a promise that the saints will be kept safe by His hand.
What we have are words Wilford Woodruff wrote down as if in the first person of Jesus Christ. How he received them or if these were really the literal words of Jesus Christ or a mixture of his own thoughts and ideas at that moment in time is unknown. In any event, if it was in fact a revelation to him by the Spirit, which it very well may have been, it would have been personal revelation to him, not to the entire church. He wasn't the president of the church at that time and the words he wrote down were never presented to the church as the will of the Lord.

And there is nothing within this personal revelation to Wilford Woodruff preventing the Lord from later telling the church to end the practice.
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 7:05 pm 2. We have the words of a man who says God told him to directly contradict the literal revelation he got.
Again, it isn't the words of man. It's the words of a prophet, apostle, and President of the Lord's church declaring that he had seen a vision, received a revelation, and had been commanded by God to end the practice.

And please see those verses in D&C 124 and D&C 58 again. The Lord can command and revoke as he pleases. If the Lord revokes a command, those who were worthy and would have continued to be faithful to God's commands if they could have (like Wilford Woodruff) are relieved of that responsibility without penalty and those who were unfaithful will lose out on the blessings.
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 7:05 pm 3. The church was broke.
Yeah, so what? It had been broke in the days of Joseph Smith, too.
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 7:05 pm 4. Gadianton Robbers invited him to San Francisco to have a party together.
So members of the Bohemian grove are Gadianton Robbers now? Interesting. Got any evidence that they had made secret Satanic oaths to commit secret murder and get gain?

They seem more like the "mammon of unrighteousness" to me.
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 7:05 pm 5. He died like a day later.
He was also in his 90s and had lived a very hard life.
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 7:05 pm 6. There's no proof any church president after W.W. received a literal revelation from Jesus Christ in first person narrative.
Oh, so you demand proof now? Faith isn't good enough?

It doesn't matter whether or not a revelation is in the "first person narrative." When a servant of God is moved upon by the Holy Ghost, their words are the words, voice, mind, and will of God.

Instead of crying about no proof of "first person narrative" revelations, why not put the teachings of the Lord's servants to the test? And I'm not talking about the few here and there that you can twist. I'm talking about the bulk of their teachings that have been consistent since the days of Joseph Smith.
InfoWarrior82 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 7:05 pm I'm sorry, but it doesn't add up.
I think you see what you want to see.

I'm curious though, since you're parroting the arguments of fundamentalists, when are you going to take start marrying additional wives and joining one of the fundamentalist groups or united orders? If you really believe what they preach, then this is the next step, right?
🙊🙉🙈

I'm sure lots of good people gather together in the woods and perform mock human sacrifice to Moloch.

Do you even believe that modern Gadiantons exist?

I wonder who you think they are...

There are Gadiantons and then there are Gadiantons. There are various levels. Sure there are some that give the blood oaths, but then there are many familiars who serve them, and so on.

There are more of them than most will recognize. There are many Gadiantons that don't even know that they are Gadiantons, because it's more than an single in-group. It's an archetype. Many play the role while simply in pursuit of gain and power.
I believe that modern Gadianton Robbers exist. If people have proof that someone is a Gadianton Robber I'm happy to look at it, but I'm not really interested in unproven theories intended to slander the leaders of the Lord's church.
What do you think of this?

Nevervaxxed
captain of 10
Posts: 20

Re: I'm confused;

Post by Nevervaxxed »

I think the Gadianton robbers are alive and doing well in Utah. Our election are as corrupt as any other state. The Romney ring wing especially, and don't even get me started on Cox! He was installed, not elected.

LDS Watchman
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 7227
Contact:

Re: I'm confused;

Post by LDS Watchman »

ransomme wrote: November 4th, 2022, 6:11 pm
LDS Watchman wrote: November 4th, 2022, 7:32 am
ransomme wrote: November 4th, 2022, 5:53 am
LDS Watchman wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 8:01 pm

What we have are words Wilford Woodruff wrote down as if in the first person of Jesus Christ. How he received them or if these were really the literal words of Jesus Christ or a mixture of his own thoughts and ideas at that moment in time is unknown. In any event, if it was in fact a revelation to him by the Spirit, which it very well may have been, it would have been personal revelation to him, not to the entire church. He wasn't the president of the church at that time and the words he wrote down were never presented to the church as the will of the Lord.

And there is nothing within this personal revelation to Wilford Woodruff preventing the Lord from later telling the church to end the practice.



Again, it isn't the words of man. It's the words of a prophet, apostle, and President of the Lord's church declaring that he had seen a vision, received a revelation, and had been commanded by God to end the practice.

And please see those verses in D&C 124 and D&C 58 again. The Lord can command and revoke as he pleases. If the Lord revokes a command, those who were worthy and would have continued to be faithful to God's commands if they could have (like Wilford Woodruff) are relieved of that responsibility without penalty and those who were unfaithful will lose out on the blessings.


Yeah, so what? It had been broke in the days of Joseph Smith, too.


So members of the Bohemian grove are Gadianton Robbers now? Interesting. Got any evidence that they had made secret Satanic oaths to commit secret murder and get gain?

They seem more like the "mammon of unrighteousness" to me.



He was also in his 90s and had lived a very hard life.



Oh, so you demand proof now? Faith isn't good enough?

It doesn't matter whether or not a revelation is in the "first person narrative." When a servant of God is moved upon by the Holy Ghost, their words are the words, voice, mind, and will of God.

Instead of crying about no proof of "first person narrative" revelations, why not put the teachings of the Lord's servants to the test? And I'm not talking about the few here and there that you can twist. I'm talking about the bulk of their teachings that have been consistent since the days of Joseph Smith.


I think you see what you want to see.

I'm curious though, since you're parroting the arguments of fundamentalists, when are you going to take start marrying additional wives and joining one of the fundamentalist groups or united orders? If you really believe what they preach, then this is the next step, right?
🙊🙉🙈

I'm sure lots of good people gather together in the woods and perform mock human sacrifice to Moloch.

Do you even believe that modern Gadiantons exist?

I wonder who you think they are...

There are Gadiantons and then there are Gadiantons. There are various levels. Sure there are some that give the blood oaths, but then there are many familiars who serve them, and so on.

There are more of them than most will recognize. There are many Gadiantons that don't even know that they are Gadiantons, because it's more than an single in-group. It's an archetype. Many play the role while simply in pursuit of gain and power.
I believe that modern Gadianton Robbers exist. If people have proof that someone is a Gadianton Robber I'm happy to look at it, but I'm not really interested in unproven theories intended to slander the leaders of the Lord's church.
lol you need proof
Yeah, call me crazy, but when someone accuses the Lord's prophet of being struck dead by God because he met with "Gadianton Robbers" I expect actual proof to back this charge up.

But alas asking people with an ax to grind against the church to back up their accusations with proof is usually a futile endeavor.
Last edited by LDS Watchman on November 4th, 2022, 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

logonbump
captain of 100
Posts: 259

Re: I'm confused;

Post by logonbump »

Nevervaxxed wrote: November 4th, 2022, 6:47 pm I think the Gadianton robbers are alive and doing well in Utah. Our election are as corrupt as any other state. The Romney ring wing especially, and don't even get me started on Cox! He was installed, not elected.

Informative biblical take on the Gadianton phenomenon:

https://biglion.blog/2021/09/21/the-wor ... last-days/

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ransomme
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1551

Re: I'm confused;

Post by ransomme »

LDS Watchman wrote: November 4th, 2022, 8:14 pm
ransomme wrote: November 4th, 2022, 6:11 pm
LDS Watchman wrote: November 4th, 2022, 7:32 am
ransomme wrote: November 4th, 2022, 5:53 am

🙊🙉🙈

I'm sure lots of good people gather together in the woods and perform mock human sacrifice to Moloch.

Do you even believe that modern Gadiantons exist?

I wonder who you think they are...

There are Gadiantons and then there are Gadiantons. There are various levels. Sure there are some that give the blood oaths, but then there are many familiars who serve them, and so on.

There are more of them than most will recognize. There are many Gadiantons that don't even know that they are Gadiantons, because it's more than an single in-group. It's an archetype. Many play the role while simply in pursuit of gain and power.
I believe that modern Gadianton Robbers exist. If people have proof that someone is a Gadianton Robber I'm happy to look at it, but I'm not really interested in unproven theories intended to slander the leaders of the Lord's church.
lol you need proof
Yeah, call me crazy, but when someone accuses the Lord's prophet of being struck dead by God because he met with "Gadianton Robbers" I expect actual proof to back this charge up.

But alas asking people with an ax to grind against the church to back up their accusations with proof is usually a futile endeavor.
Well there is some evidence in the video a couple of posts above.

Also it's interesting what you infer. Didn't info warrior just mentioned that WW died within days of the Bohemian Club meeting. And you say that he said he was struck dead... Hmm...

Personally I think there's a fair possibility that he was poisoned but idk.

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darknesstolight
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3574

Re: I'm confused;

Post by darknesstolight »

LDS Watchman wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 11:00 pm
Nevervaxxed wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 9:38 pm LDS Watchmen,
Why do you insist on creating strawman arguments? Why do you say I said Christ taught his disciples to rebell against authority? I never said anything like that. I said Christ stood against the powers that be during his lifetime, and was killed for it. "Do what is right let the consequence follow". That's what Christ did; not out of rebellion to proper authority, but simple doing the "right thing", regardless of consequence! That is the point, not the diatribe you departed onto just to confuse. Today's church leaders don't stand against the evil woke authorities; they praise them...
I didn't create strawman argument. The whole point is that Jesus did not teach anyone to challenge the authority of the governments they were under, even an very unjust and cruel government, like Rome. He didn't say anything to undermine the authority of Rome or to encourage his followers to disregard any of the laws Rome placed upon them. He always taught to submit the the authority of the government. He didn't say that it as soon as the authorities become "woke" or "evil" that we are required to stand against them.

Is it the right thing to challenge and undermine the authority of the government and bring unnecessary trouble upon the church that could be avoided if the church submits?

As for praising worldly authorities, you do realize that Daniel praised the King of Babylon, right?
The Constitution and the Declaration of Independence is one place to find out what God has said about this subject matter.

We have a divine duty and it is our civic duty and it is our responsibility as citizens to stand against tyranny.

Pretend legislation does not need to be obeyed.

Get educated and wake up my dear friend. There is danger near! Be careful and be wise! Open your eyes and look with the eyes of a child and see.
"HE HAS COMBINED WITH OTHERS TO SUBJECT US TO A JURISDICTION FOREIGN TO OUR CONSTITUTION, AND UNACKNOWLEDGED BY OUR LAWS; GIVING HIS ASSENT TO THEIR ACTS OF PRETENDED LEGISLATION"
"This line introduces a recitation of certain acts of Parliament regarded as unconstitutional exercises of authority by the Americans. "He has combined with others" means that King George has given his assent to these acts of "pretended Legislation," that is, he has refused to exercise his veto on them. The "others" referred to here are the members of Parliament. This entire section rests upon a principal issue for the colonists: To what extent did the British Parliament have the authority to legislate for the American colonists? As one reads these charges, one should keep in mind the principle stated at the beginning of the Declaration, that all legitimate political power derives from the consent of the governed. This principle is implicit in the phrase "foreign to our Constitution." Jefferson refers to the American understanding of the British constitution (see his Summary View), which rests upon the principle of consent. "Our constitution," in this view, rightfully grants authority to the colonial legislatures to make laws for their respective colonies. The Founders believed that the colonists in each of the colonies had voluntarily consented to be governed by their own elected representatives; The colonies acknowledged King George as their "chief executive," and were in this sense British citizens. However, the colonists had not consented to be governed by the British Parliament, and it therefore had no authority over them. Accordingly, when King George gave his consent to the acts of "pretended Legislation" of Parliament, he had given the colonists the justification for dissolving their allegiance to him, and thus for declaring their independence."

https://founding.com/he-has-combined-wi ... 0on%20them.

...

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darknesstolight
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3574

Re: I'm confused;

Post by darknesstolight »

LDS Watchman wrote: November 4th, 2022, 8:14 pm
ransomme wrote: November 4th, 2022, 6:11 pm
LDS Watchman wrote: November 4th, 2022, 7:32 am
ransomme wrote: November 4th, 2022, 5:53 am

🙊🙉🙈

I'm sure lots of good people gather together in the woods and perform mock human sacrifice to Moloch.

Do you even believe that modern Gadiantons exist?

I wonder who you think they are...

There are Gadiantons and then there are Gadiantons. There are various levels. Sure there are some that give the blood oaths, but then there are many familiars who serve them, and so on.

There are more of them than most will recognize. There are many Gadiantons that don't even know that they are Gadiantons, because it's more than an single in-group. It's an archetype. Many play the role while simply in pursuit of gain and power.
I believe that modern Gadianton Robbers exist. If people have proof that someone is a Gadianton Robber I'm happy to look at it, but I'm not really interested in unproven theories intended to slander the leaders of the Lord's church.
lol you need proof
Yeah, call me crazy, but when someone accuses the Lord's prophet of being struck dead by God because he met with "Gadianton Robbers" I expect actual proof to back this charge up.

But alas asking people with an ax to grind against the church to back up their accusations with proof is usually a futile endeavor.
https://cspoa.org/sheriff-mack-explains ... term=Email

https://cspoa.org/sheriff-mack-answers- ... term=Email

...


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darknesstolight
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3574

Re: I'm confused;

Post by darknesstolight »

Greetings from the Sheriff of ____________County, __________
BACKGROUND:
As the elected Sheriff of _______________ County, I have taken an
oath before the “Supreme Judge of the Universe” to keep the peace
and to secure, defend and protect the people of this jurisdiction from
threats to their liberties, their livelihoods, and the peaceable
enjoyment of their property.
The nature of that solemn oath requires that the actions of the sheriff
in the performance of his duty must conform to the Constitution of the
United States and the Constitution of the State of _______________.
These documents are the supreme law of the land and describe the
powers entrusted to civil government by the consent of the people.
They also provide limits to those powers which are absolute,
permanent, and perpetual.
Furthermore, these documents are based upon and informed by a
philosophy of law and government set forth in the Declaration of
Independence which can be summarized as follows:
1) All men and women are created by an Almighty, All-knowing,
Eternal God.
2) God is the Author and Grantor of rights to men and women which
are inalienable, universal, and part of His created order. These
rights include life, liberty, and property.
3) People form civil governments for the purpose of securing and
protecting these God-given rights.
4) Whenever any government becomes destructive of these ends or
violative of this purpose it is the right and the duty of the people
to take corrective measures with respect to that government.



CURRENT CRISIS:
In March of last year, the Governor of this state issued executive orders
closing businesses, churches, schools and denying the people of this
state their God-given and constitutionally protected right to travel, to
worship, to assemble, and to exercise personal autonomy respecting
wearing face masks or other medical devices. When these directives
were first issued, they were accompanied by statements indicating they
were an attempt to deal with a medical catastrophe and were expected
to extend for only fourteen days.
Despite several judicial rulings that these measures lack constitutional
authority, the governor has expanded and extended these orders for
more than fourteen months.
During this time there has been a coordinated and constant effort by
media and some government agencies to justify the suspension or
denial of God-given, constitutionally protected rights under a plea of
emergency; but this is precisely what is forbidden by the Constitution of
the United States.
Moreover, the Constitution of _______________ provides that all
lawmaking power is vested in our state legislature and further provides
that the powers and authorities of one branch of government shall not
be discharged by an official from a different branch.
Lawmaking power being thus vested in the legislature, the Governor
has no constitutional authority to make law. Therefore, the edicts of
the Governor (or a health department subordinate), whether they are
characterized as mandates, orders, proclamations, or directives, are not
law and cannot be lawfully enforced.
In point of fact, no governor, in any state, has the authority to suspend
the Constitution. And any attempt by a Governor to suspend
Constitutional rights is an act of lawlessness and a violation of his/her
oath of office.
When I took my oath of office as Sheriff, I swore obedience and fidelity
to the United States Constitution and the Constitution of this State. I
did not swear allegiance to a mayor or a governor or a health
department bureaucrat.
Fidelity to my oath requires that I abstain from enforcing any edict or
order from a Governor, or any executive, which lacks constitutional
authority. Moreover, my sworn duty requires that I resist such edicts
and orders and act in such a manner as to shelter and protect the
citizenry from all acts of lawlessness, even and especially when they
originate from civil authorities.



CONCLUSION:
Accordingly, the Office of Sheriff of _____________ County, has and
will continue to adopt and execute policies and procedures consistent
with the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of this
State. These policies and procedures apply to the Sheriff, all Deputy
Sheriffs, all employees of the Office of Sheriff and anyone acting under
the authority of the Office of Sheriff and include, but are not limited to
the following:
1) This Office will not in any way assist in the enforcement of any
order, edict, mandate, proclamation, directive, regulation, etc.,
that violates the rights of the people to:
a. Move about freely
b. Wear or not wear any medical device they may choose
c. Freely express their religious beliefs, and freely engage in
the practice thereof
d. Freely speak their opinions
e. Assemble
f. Keep and bear arms
g. Lawfully engage in business activities without
interference by representatives of any government, or
agency or agent thereof, notwithstanding any real or
ostensible public health emergency
h. Engage in any other activity protected by the Constitution
of the United States or by the Constitution of this State.
2) This Office will not assist in the enforcement of any civil action
or any criminal charge against any person for trespass which is
based on that person’s failure to comply with unconstitutional
mandates or orders.
3) This Office will arrest, detain, and recommend prosecution of
any government official or agent thereof who knowingly and
deliberately violates the rights of the people under the
pretended authority of an unconstitutional order, edict,
mandate, proclamation, directive, or regulation.
4) This Office will arrest, detain, and recommend prosecution of
any government official or agent thereof who uses his or her
position or office to influence any private (non-governmental)
person or corporation to act in such a way as to coerce any
person or entity to comply with unconstitutional orders, edicts,
mandates, proclamations, directives or regulations.
5) The Bill of Rights will be strictly enforced within the
jurisdictional boundaries of this County.
The people of _________________ County, are entitled to the
protection of their God-given and constitutionally protected rights. As
the elected chief law enforcement official of this jurisdiction, it is the
responsibility, duty and privilege of the Sheriff to do everything in his or
her lawful power to protect, defend and secure these rights.
Signed,
Sheriff ______________________ of _________________ County, ____


...

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