Uchtdorf: God gave us masks. God gave us a vaccine.

[creator]

So what do you think is going on with the Church?

It's in a state of apostasy.

You were quoting Ezra T Benson. I assume you do not consider him to be in apostasy or a false prophet?

I value truth wherever it is found. Ezra Taft Benson has a lot of great teachings, and did a lot of good in his efforts to wake up a sleeping people.

[Obeone]

I value truth wherever it is found. Ezra Taft Benson has a lot of great teachings, and did a lot of good in his efforts to wake up a sleeping people.

But was he a false prophet who pretended to hold the true keys of the kingdom of God on earth?

This reminds me a bit of some Muslims who say "Jesus was a good man and a prophet", but of course He was a liar because he said he was a Son of God, when in fact He wasn't.

I am not trying to provoke you. I am simply showing inherent self-contradictions in your position.

(Thanks for a great forum, by the way!)

[creator]

I value truth wherever it is found. Ezra Taft Benson has a lot of great teachings, and did a lot of good in his efforts to wake up a sleeping people.

But was he a false prophet who pretended to hold the true keys of the kingdom of God on earth?
This reminds me a bit of some Muslims who say "Jesus was a good man and a prophet", but of course He was a liar because he said he was a Son of God, when in fact He wasn't.
I am not trying to provoke you. I am simply showing inherent self-contradictions in your position.

I don't mind answering your inquiries but please recognize that you've made a straw man argument. I never said anything about a false prophet, you did, and then you used your own words in your argument as if I said it. There is no self-contradiction in my position, you are committing a straw man fallacy.

I expressed nothing but respect for Ezra Taft Benson.

I find it problematic that the culture in the Church has gotten to a point where every new President of the Church is automatically called "The Prophet" (it wasn't always like that). Just because a person is given a calling as a prophet, seer, and revelator, doesn't make them one. Read the Charge to the Twelve for more context on this. Prior to President McKay, it was Joseph Smith that was commonly referred to as "The Prophet", not the succeeding church presidents. The word "prophet" has mostly lost it's meaning in the church today.

[larsenb]

Jana Christopherson: 41-year-old Utah woman dies in her sleep

jana.png (156.85 KiB) Viewed 679 times

Ms. Jana Lyn Perkins Christopherson resided in Riverdale, Utah. She worked in sales with her father at a company called River Rock Cabinetry.

Ms. Christopherson “passed away unexpectedly and peacefully in her sleep” ( https://www.aaronsmortuary.com/obituari ... opherson-1 ) on August 1. She posted the following Facebook update on December 3, 2021.

[EmmaLee]

Wow, that karma is a real thing...

[The Red Pill]

Jana Christopherson: 41-year-old Utah woman dies in her sleep

jana.png
Ms. Jana Lyn Perkins Christopherson resided in Riverdale, Utah. She worked in sales with her father at a company called River Rock Cabinetry.

Ms. Christopherson “passed away unexpectedly and peacefully in her sleep” ( https://www.aaronsmortuary.com/obituari ... opherson-1 ) on August 1. She posted the following Facebook update on December 3, 2021.

Based on her own quote...NOT difficult to ascertain what took her to room temperature prematurely.

Still sad...anyone dying from the damn clot-shot is a waste.

This is why I am so angry with Q15...urging this genocidal weapon, with no apologies, retraction or even current warnings about side effects.

[FrankOne]

Wow, that karma is a real thing...

I do find it intriguing that within the last 2 months, I've read of about 8 people that have died which were publicly outspoken against people which didn't get the vax. . Each death was unexplainable and sudden. Doctors are baffled. There needs to be research done to find out what is happening. Maybe it's a new covid strain that has no symptoms, .... it just kills people. We likely need a new vax against this. I tell ya... it's damn baffling!

[HVDC]

Wow, that karma is a real thing...

I do find it intriguing that within the last 2 months, I've read of about 8 people that have died which were publicly outspoken against people which didn't get the vax. . Each death was unexplainable and sudden. Doctors are baffled. There needs to be research done to find out what is happening. Maybe it's a new covid strain that has no symptoms, .... it just kills people. We likely need a new vax against this. I tell ya... it's damn baffling!

Don't give them any ideas.

Sir H

[Obeone]

I value truth wherever it is found. Ezra Taft Benson has a lot of great teachings, and did a lot of good in his efforts to wake up a sleeping people.

But was he a false prophet who pretended to hold the true keys of the kingdom of God on earth?
This reminds me a bit of some Muslims who say "Jesus was a good man and a prophet", but of course He was a liar because he said he was a Son of God, when in fact He wasn't.
I am not trying to provoke you. I am simply showing inherent self-contradictions in your position.

I don't mind answering your inquiries but please recognize that you've made a straw man argument. I never said anything about a false prophet, you did, and then you used your own words in your argument as if I said it. There is no self-contradiction in my position, you are committing a straw man fallacy.

I expressed nothing but respect for Ezra Taft Benson.

I find it problematic that the culture in the Church has gotten to a point where every new President of the Church is automatically called "The Prophet" (it wasn't always like that). Just because a person is given a calling as a prophet, seer, and revelator, doesn't make them one. Read the Charge to the Twelve for more context on this. Prior to President McKay, it was Joseph Smith that was commonly referred to as "The Prophet", not the succeeding church presidents. The word "prophet" has mostly lost it's meaning in the church today.

I am simply asking: did Benson hold the keys of the kingdom of God on earth or not?
He said he did. If you have but respect for him, I assume you agree that he did not lie on that point (because good and honorable men do not lie about such things).

If Benson held valid keys, where did he get them?
And if he held valid keys, why not Nelson now?

And if a man with valid priesthood keys is at the head of the Church who support him as God's ordained servant, with all their hearts, are they in apostasy while holding the same keys with him?

It is the question of keys. Are they in this Church or not?

That is the question.

And while men make mistakes, while holding the keys, does not mean God does not recognize the authority He gave them.

As I said: Zion is in the wilderness, but is not dead.

This is the kingdom of God on earth. This is my testimony.

[CuriousThinker]

Jana Christopherson: 41-year-old Utah woman dies in her sleep

jana.png
Ms. Jana Lyn Perkins Christopherson resided in Riverdale, Utah. She worked in sales with her father at a company called River Rock Cabinetry.

Ms. Christopherson “passed away unexpectedly and peacefully in her sleep” ( https://www.aaronsmortuary.com/obituari ... opherson-1 ) on August 1. She posted the following Facebook update on December 3, 2021.

Am I missing something? Her post says mandatory vacations, not vaccinations.

[Lizzy60]

Jana Christopherson: 41-year-old Utah woman dies in her sleep

jana.png
Ms. Jana Lyn Perkins Christopherson resided in Riverdale, Utah. She worked in sales with her father at a company called River Rock Cabinetry.

Ms. Christopherson “passed away unexpectedly and peacefully in her sleep” ( https://www.aaronsmortuary.com/obituari ... opherson-1 ) on August 1. She posted the following Facebook update on December 3, 2021.

Am I missing something? Her post says mandatory vacations, not vaccinations.

It also says “then” instead of “them”. She probably misspelled vaccination and it was autocorrected to vacation.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Jana Christopherson: 41-year-old Utah woman dies in her sleep

jana.png
Ms. Jana Lyn Perkins Christopherson resided in Riverdale, Utah. She worked in sales with her father at a company called River Rock Cabinetry.

Ms. Christopherson “passed away unexpectedly and peacefully in her sleep” ( https://www.aaronsmortuary.com/obituari ... opherson-1 ) on August 1. She posted the following Facebook update on December 3, 2021.

Am I missing something? Her post says mandatory vacations, not vaccinations.

Now that sounds like an idea I can get behind.

[Chip]

Wow, that karma is a real thing...

I do find it intriguing that within the last 2 months, I've read of about 8 people that have died which were publicly outspoken against people which didn't get the vax. . Each death was unexplainable and sudden. Doctors are baffled. There needs to be research done to find out what is happening. Maybe it's a new covid strain that has no symptoms, .... it just kills people. We likely need a new vax against this. I tell ya... it's damn baffling!

This is what autopsies are for. Doesn't seem like any are happening in these cases.

[CuriousThinker]

Jana Christopherson: 41-year-old Utah woman dies in her sleep

jana.png
Ms. Jana Lyn Perkins Christopherson resided in Riverdale, Utah. She worked in sales with her father at a company called River Rock Cabinetry.

Ms. Christopherson “passed away unexpectedly and peacefully in her sleep” ( https://www.aaronsmortuary.com/obituari ... opherson-1 ) on August 1. She posted the following Facebook update on December 3, 2021.

Am I missing something? Her post says mandatory vacations, not vaccinations.

It also says “then” instead of “them”. She probably misspelled vaccination and it was autocorrected to vacation.

I"m not sure it was auto corrected, especially given the laughing reaction to her post . I saw that exact meme on multiple FB friends' posts. It was a running gag.

[Fred]

I value truth wherever it is found. Ezra Taft Benson has a lot of great teachings, and did a lot of good in his efforts to wake up a sleeping people.

But was he a false prophet who pretended to hold the true keys of the kingdom of God on earth?
This reminds me a bit of some Muslims who say "Jesus was a good man and a prophet", but of course He was a liar because he said he was a Son of God, when in fact He wasn't.
I am not trying to provoke you. I am simply showing inherent self-contradictions in your position.

I don't mind answering your inquiries but please recognize that you've made a straw man argument. I never said anything about a false prophet, you did, and then you used your own words in your argument as if I said it. There is no self-contradiction in my position, you are committing a straw man fallacy.

I expressed nothing but respect for Ezra Taft Benson.

I find it problematic that the culture in the Church has gotten to a point where every new President of the Church is automatically called "The Prophet" (it wasn't always like that). Just because a person is given a calling as a prophet, seer, and revelator, doesn't make them one. Read the Charge to the Twelve for more context on this. Prior to President McKay, it was Joseph Smith that was commonly referred to as "The Prophet", not the succeeding church presidents. The word "prophet" has mostly lost it's meaning in the church today.

I am simply asking: did Benson hold the keys of the kingdom of God on earth or not?
He said he did. If you have but respect for him, I assume you agree that he did not lie on that point (because good and honorable men do not lie about such things).

If Benson held valid keys, where did he get them?
And if he held valid keys, why not Nelson now?

Benson was a conservative. He believed in conserving the original intent of the constitution which God inspired. He was for freedom, or in other words Christlike.

NONE of the current Q15 are either conservatives or Christlike. It may not even be possible for them to hold any keys. For a socialist to hold keys is like allowing satan to hold the keys.

[larsenb]

Jana Christopherson: 41-year-old Utah woman dies in her sleep

jana.png
Ms. Jana Lyn Perkins Christopherson resided in Riverdale, Utah. She worked in sales with her father at a company called River Rock Cabinetry.

Ms. Christopherson “passed away unexpectedly and peacefully in her sleep” ( https://www.aaronsmortuary.com/obituari ... opherson-1 ) on August 1. She posted the following Facebook update on December 3, 2021.

Am I missing something? Her post says mandatory vacations, not vaccinations.

It also says “then” instead of “them”. She probably misspelled vaccination and it was autocorrected to vacation.

I"m not sure it was auto corrected, especially given the laughing reaction to her post . I saw that exact meme on multiple FB friends' posts. It was a running gag.

Guess the laugh was on her. Her obit is real enough.

[Christianlee]

The mandatory vacations meme was a joke going around. Most of those who posted it were not for the vax.
She was 42 and seems to have had weight problems. We cannot assume she was killed by the vaccine.

[larsenb]

The mandatory vacations meme was a joke going around. Most of those who posted it were not for the vax.
She was 42 and seems to have had weight problems. We cannot assume she was killed by the vaccine.

Makes quite a bit of sense in light of the "vacations" wording. Even if she had employed an image containing 'vaccinations', there is no proof she got the shot or died from having done so.

[InfoWarrior82]

I value truth wherever it is found. Ezra Taft Benson has a lot of great teachings, and did a lot of good in his efforts to wake up a sleeping people.

But was he a false prophet who pretended to hold the true keys of the kingdom of God on earth?
This reminds me a bit of some Muslims who say "Jesus was a good man and a prophet", but of course He was a liar because he said he was a Son of God, when in fact He wasn't.
I am not trying to provoke you. I am simply showing inherent self-contradictions in your position.

I don't mind answering your inquiries but please recognize that you've made a straw man argument. I never said anything about a false prophet, you did, and then you used your own words in your argument as if I said it. There is no self-contradiction in my position, you are committing a straw man fallacy.

I expressed nothing but respect for Ezra Taft Benson.

I find it problematic that the culture in the Church has gotten to a point where every new President of the Church is automatically called "The Prophet" (it wasn't always like that). Just because a person is given a calling as a prophet, seer, and revelator, doesn't make them one. Read the Charge to the Twelve for more context on this. Prior to President McKay, it was Joseph Smith that was commonly referred to as "The Prophet", not the succeeding church presidents. The word "prophet" has mostly lost it's meaning in the church today.

I am simply asking: did Benson hold the keys of the kingdom of God on earth or not?
He said he did. If you have but respect for him, I assume you agree that he did not lie on that point (because good and honorable men do not lie about such things).

If Benson held valid keys, where did he get them?
And if he held valid keys, why not Nelson now?

And if a man with valid priesthood keys is at the head of the Church who support him as God's ordained servant, with all their hearts, are they in apostasy while holding the same keys with him?

It is the question of keys. Are they in this Church or not?

That is the question.

And while men make mistakes, while holding the keys, does not mean God does not recognize the authority He gave them.

As I said: Zion is in the wilderness, but is not dead.

This is the kingdom of God on earth. This is my testimony.

D&C 121 tells us that a man may hold keys, but still lack the power and authority due to their own personal unworthiness.

The question really comes down to fruits. A true, worthy, prophet of God will have the fruits associated with that status. When they lack these scriptural fruits, or bring forth corrupt fruit, then Christ says you can then know who they are because it is next to impossible to know what motivates them in their hearts and minds.

[Niemand]

Jana Christopherson: 41-year-old Utah woman dies in her sleep

jana.png
Ms. Jana Lyn Perkins Christopherson resided in Riverdale, Utah. She worked in sales with her father at a company called River Rock Cabinetry.

Ms. Christopherson “passed away unexpectedly and peacefully in her sleep” ( https://www.aaronsmortuary.com/obituari ... opherson-1 ) on August 1. She posted the following Facebook update on December 3, 2021.

Am I missing something? Her post says mandatory vacations, not vaccinations.

"Mandatory vacations"? I suppose that was lockdown. Except it was a "staycation" or "break at home".

[ransomme]

I value truth wherever it is found. Ezra Taft Benson has a lot of great teachings, and did a lot of good in his efforts to wake up a sleeping people.

But was he a false prophet who pretended to hold the true keys of the kingdom of God on earth?
This reminds me a bit of some Muslims who say "Jesus was a good man and a prophet", but of course He was a liar because he said he was a Son of God, when in fact He wasn't.
I am not trying to provoke you. I am simply showing inherent self-contradictions in your position.

I don't mind answering your inquiries but please recognize that you've made a straw man argument. I never said anything about a false prophet, you did, and then you used your own words in your argument as if I said it. There is no self-contradiction in my position, you are committing a straw man fallacy.

I expressed nothing but respect for Ezra Taft Benson.

I find it problematic that the culture in the Church has gotten to a point where every new President of the Church is automatically called "The Prophet" (it wasn't always like that). Just because a person is given a calling as a prophet, seer, and revelator, doesn't make them one. Read the Charge to the Twelve for more context on this. Prior to President McKay, it was Joseph Smith that was commonly referred to as "The Prophet", not the succeeding church presidents. The word "prophet" has mostly lost it's meaning in the church today.

I am simply asking: did Benson hold the keys of the kingdom of God on earth or not?
He said he did. If you have but respect for him, I assume you agree that he did not lie on that point (because good and honorable men do not lie about such things).

If Benson held valid keys, where did he get them?
And if he held valid keys, why not Nelson now?

And if a man with valid priesthood keys is at the head of the Church who support him as God's ordained servant, with all their hearts, are they in apostasy while holding the same keys with him?

It is the question of keys. Are they in this Church or not?

That is the question.

And while men make mistakes, while holding the keys, does not mean God does not recognize the authority He gave them.

As I said: Zion is in the wilderness, but is not dead.

This is the kingdom of God on earth. This is my testimony.

"As I said: Zion is in the wilderness, but is not dead."

What does this represent our mean? Does being in the wilderness have any certain implications?

[Obeone]

D&C 121 tells us that a man may hold keys, but still lack the power and authority due to their own personal unworthiness.

The question really comes down to fruits. A true, worthy, prophet of God will have the fruits associated with that status. When they lack these scriptural fruits, or bring forth corrupt fruit, then Christ says you can then know who they are because it is next to impossible to know what motivates them in their hearts and minds.

This is a good point.

However the fruits brought forth by Q15 are on balance good, despite of their errors.
Which means the keys they hold are valid, active and real.

No other church in the world holds these keys.

This is key. (Pun intended).

[InfoWarrior82]

D&C 121 tells us that a man may hold keys, but still lack the power and authority due to their own personal unworthiness.

The question really comes down to fruits. A true, worthy, prophet of God will have the fruits associated with that status. When they lack these scriptural fruits, or bring forth corrupt fruit, then Christ says you can then know who they are because it is next to impossible to know what motivates them in their hearts and minds.

This is a good point.

However the fruits brought forth by Q15 are on balance good, despite of their errors.
Which means the keys they hold are valid, active and real.

No other church in the world holds these keys.

This is key. (Pun intended).

Balance?

No.

Christ said a good tree cannot yield corrupt fruit. Neither can a corrupt tree yield good fruit when it comes to prophets of God. He was very specific about this.

Furthermore, these men do not have scriptural fruits of prophets.

[Obeone]

"As I said: Zion is in the wilderness, but is not dead."

What does this represent our mean? Does being in the wilderness have any certain implications?

Yes. "Zion in the wilderness," means the City of Zion is still missing because the Church failed on many different levels so far: beginning with the members who are not valiant, and ending with Q15 who innocently believe damnable lies such as this and this.

But Zion is not dead, because the true keys and authority of the Kingdom of God on earth are still with it. They have the authority of God to perform valid ordinances. Those who doubt this will find out some day, in the most drastic way imaginable, that they doubted in vain.

And another implication of "Zion is in the wilderness, but is not dead" is that in 2030 Zion will be redeemed. Then all who doubted this Church will see their folly.

This is the work of God.

[Luke]

This is the work of God.

If it is, then why do they preach against Plural Marriage, and push out those who believe in and/or practise it?

It may not be so for you, but for me, it’s an absolute deal-breaker.