Uchtdorf: God gave us masks. God gave us a vaccine.

[David13]

God is capable of inspiring the human mind to find consistently better solutions and innovations to relieve sicknesses and pain. Thank goodness for the miracles of modern medicine and treatments versus living even a couple hundred years ago.

The Book of Mormon documents a people who, hundreds of years ago, were so righteous that God the Father himself visited and led them (imagine a whole community of people granted salvation). Would you rather live in that community or this community of supposedly inspired minds innovating a better world through the religion of science?

How much illness do you think existed among that group of righteous people in the presence of the Father?

Let's not get carried away here. If you want to believe western medicine (which John the Revelator calls 'sorceries') is inspired of God, that's your prerogative. However, there's clearly something that's much better that God definitely would provide if we were cooperative.

At best we're settling for something lesser. I'm a bit more cynical than that.

John the Revelator did not call western medicine sorceries. Yes, the Greek word used is "Pharmakeia," but it is not the same context in the slightest.

Pharmakeia had nothing to do with medicine but more to do with magic potions and sorcery, oftentimes untested and yet marketed as a cure.

All the vaccinations that exist in the world can in no means be called Pharmakeia in the Koine Greek sense. HCQ and IVM can definitely be called pharmakeia in relation to COVID-19.

hm. I've seen twisted interpretations before, but yours tops them all.

Convolution at it's best, as usual.
dc

[Subcomandante]

...
All the vaccinations that exist in the world can in no means be called Pharmakeia in the Koine Greek sense. HCQ and IVM can definitely be called pharmakeia in relation to COVID-19.

Everybody, please note the utterly preposterous nature of the nonsense being spouted here by Sub. This is EXTREME trolling. It takes a very perverse mind to produce things like this.

I would respond with:

Nananana.jpg

My vaccine did not have the mRNA spike protein. None of them did.

[Subcomandante]

The Book of Mormon documents a people who, hundreds of years ago, were so righteous that God the Father himself visited and led them (imagine a whole community of people granted salvation). Would you rather live in that community or this community of supposedly inspired minds innovating a better world through the religion of science?

How much illness do you think existed among that group of righteous people in the presence of the Father?

Let's not get carried away here. If you want to believe western medicine (which John the Revelator calls 'sorceries') is inspired of God, that's your prerogative. However, there's clearly something that's much better that God definitely would provide if we were cooperative.

At best we're settling for something lesser. I'm a bit more cynical than that.

John the Revelator did not call western medicine sorceries. Yes, the Greek word used is "Pharmakeia," but it is not the same context in the slightest.

Pharmakeia had nothing to do with medicine but more to do with magic potions and sorcery, oftentimes untested and yet marketed as a cure.

All the vaccinations that exist in the world can in no means be called Pharmakeia in the Koine Greek sense. HCQ and IVM can definitely be called pharmakeia in relation to COVID-19.

hm. I've seen twisted interpretations before, but yours tops them all.

Convolution at it's best, as usual.
dc

No. Just a better understanding of Greek than you guys, who try to cherry pick a similar sounding word and then try to say that it means sorcery and then apply it to modern medicine.

There were doctors and physicians that were working during the days of Jesus. There were also witches and sorcerors that used different types of potions and elixirs. Some done in the names of their gods.

Against that was what John preached to the people. But no. I see in this forum a group of people that would be content to go back to the Dark Ages.

[Subcomandante]

Pretty much every medicine in the pharmaceutical industry consists of chemicals that have been derived from nature. People became curious about why specific herbs had healing properties than others did not, then isolated the healing chemical so as to have it in a more concentrated fashion, then did tests on them to determine the proper dosage.

Organic chemistry works wonders.

The problem with that approach is that these compounds can also have toxic properties. In nature, when you take an extract or tincture from a whole plant, or even a component of the plant, there are a variety of constituents that provide balance, counteracting the negative and toxic attributes to provide a general healing effect. By isolating a single component, yes you may get a good effect, but you also get bad effects. Yeah, it may cure your fever, but wreak havoc on your liver. This is not what nature intended.

But go on with your sorceries. What they are doing now goes well beyond what God designed for us, and it is as the days of Noah. If you know what that portends, you would steer well clear of Big Pharma.

This is why these compounds are tested out, repeatedly, in lab environments to determine the proper dosage and for how long someone should take something. You don't want to create dependence, and you certainly do not want to destroy or damage organs in the process.

There are people that have allergic reactions to other components that are found in nature. Isolating a chemical that someone is not allergic to from a plant that contains other reactants that might cause an allergy very well saves lives. Again, organic chemistry works wonders. And the Lord can inspire a scientist to discover these cures for themselves. Modern medicine is indeed a miracle from the Lord, when the Lord inspires people to come up with solutions to fix different problems.

[Ancalagon]

...
All the vaccinations that exist in the world can in no means be called Pharmakeia in the Koine Greek sense. HCQ and IVM can definitely be called pharmakeia in relation to COVID-19.

Everybody, please note the utterly preposterous nature of the nonsense being spouted here by Sub. This is EXTREME trolling. It takes a very perverse mind to produce things like this.

I would respond with:

Nananana.jpg

My vaccine did not have the mRNA spike protein. None of them did.

My apologies; the genetic material which is then translated by your own machinery into the spike protein. Hard to fit in a pithy meme, I took a short cut. My bad.

https://www.precisionvaccinations.com/v ... -v-vaccine

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-con ... t-20506465

If Novavax, you possibly could slide with a technicality, but it's a subunit vaccine, still made of S protein, though.

[ransomme]

Pretty much every medicine in the pharmaceutical industry consists of chemicals that have been derived from nature. People became curious about why specific herbs had healing properties than others did not, then isolated the healing chemical so as to have it in a more concentrated fashion, then did tests on them to determine the proper dosage.

Organic chemistry works wonders.

The problem with that approach is that these compounds can also have toxic properties. In nature, when you take an extract or tincture from a whole plant, or even a component of the plant, there are a variety of constituents that provide balance, counteracting the negative and toxic attributes to provide a general healing effect. By isolating a single component, yes you may get a good effect, but you also get bad effects. Yeah, it may cure your fever, but wreak havoc on your liver. This is not what nature intended.

But go on with your sorceries. What they are doing now goes well beyond what God designed for us, and it is as the days of Noah. If you know what that portends, you would steer well clear of Big Pharma.

This is why these compounds are tested out, repeatedly, in lab environments to determine the proper dosage and for how long someone should take something. You don't want to create dependence, and you certainly do not want to destroy or damage organs in the process.

There are people that have allergic reactions to other components that are found in nature. Isolating a chemical that someone is not allergic to from a plant that contains other reactants that might cause an allergy very well saves lives. Again, organic chemistry works wonders. And the Lord can inspire a scientist to discover these cures for themselves. Modern medicine is indeed a miracle from the Lord, when the Lord inspires people to come up with solutions to fix different problems.

You do realize that no they weren't all tested. The lipid nanoparticles are novel and have never been in a vaccine before, or tested properly.

In the lipid nanoparticles there is the polyethylene glycol (PEG) component and several other ingredients which have been implicated in hypersensitivity reactions including potentially life-threatening cases of anaphylaxis following mRNA shots.

Don't be willfully naive.

[InfoWarrior82]

Pretty much every medicine in the pharmaceutical industry consists of chemicals that have been derived from nature. People became curious about why specific herbs had healing properties than others did not, then isolated the healing chemical so as to have it in a more concentrated fashion, then did tests on them to determine the proper dosage.

Organic chemistry works wonders.

The problem with that approach is that these compounds can also have toxic properties. In nature, when you take an extract or tincture from a whole plant, or even a component of the plant, there are a variety of constituents that provide balance, counteracting the negative and toxic attributes to provide a general healing effect. By isolating a single component, yes you may get a good effect, but you also get bad effects. Yeah, it may cure your fever, but wreak havoc on your liver. This is not what nature intended.

But go on with your sorceries. What they are doing now goes well beyond what God designed for us, and it is as the days of Noah. If you know what that portends, you would steer well clear of Big Pharma.

This is why these compounds are tested out, repeatedly, in lab environments to determine the proper dosage and for how long someone should take something. You don't want to create dependence, and you certainly do not want to destroy or damage organs in the process.

There are people that have allergic reactions to other components that are found in nature. Isolating a chemical that someone is not allergic to from a plant that contains other reactants that might cause an allergy very well saves lives. Again, organic chemistry works wonders. And the Lord can inspire a scientist to discover these cures for themselves. Modern medicine is indeed a miracle from the Lord, when the Lord inspires people to come up with solutions to fix different problems.

Oh... You're still at that part where you think that these things were properly tested.....


.... Yikes.... Or should I say.. Spikes...

[ransomme]

John the Revelator did not call western medicine sorceries. Yes, the Greek word used is "Pharmakeia," but it is not the same context in the slightest.

Pharmakeia had nothing to do with medicine but more to do with magic potions and sorcery, oftentimes untested and yet marketed as a cure.

All the vaccinations that exist in the world can in no means be called Pharmakeia in the Koine Greek sense. HCQ and IVM can definitely be called pharmakeia in relation to COVID-19.

hm. I've seen twisted interpretations before, but yours tops them all.

Convolution at it's best, as usual.
dc

No. Just a better understanding of Greek than you guys, who try to cherry pick a similar sounding word and then try to say that it means sorcery and then apply it to modern medicine.

There were doctors and physicians that were working during the days of Jesus. There were also witches and sorcerors that used different types of potions and elixirs. Some done in the names of their gods.

Against that was what John preached to the people. But no. I see in this forum a group of people that would be content to go back to the Dark Ages.

Ok Socrates...

The word pharmakeia has several meanings. It can refer to magic/sorcery, but it very often refers to the practice of medicine or what might be called healing arts (see Liddell and Scott, a Greek-English Lexicon). Also the concrete noun is pharmakon whose primary meaning is poison; its secondary meaning is magic potion or charm to achieve a desirable objective; and its tertiary meaning is medicine, remedy, or drug for healing.

Seeing how the book of revelation is an Endtime prophecy I don't think John and God were talking about magic/sorcery. The vaccine would fit the definition of poison and drug/remedy/therapy.

Revelations 18
23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

But that's just what I think.

[Obeone]

God allows everything, it's called agency. That doesn't mean God is in any way directing the church leaders to do what they are doing. I know some people like to come up with a scenario that eases their cognitive dissonance. Doesn't make it true.

I have my interpretation of what is going on here.

But what is your interpretation? Is the Church true? Are the keys of the kingdom of God on earth in it or not?

What is your view?

[Reluctant Watchman]

God allows everything, it's called agency. That doesn't mean God is in any way directing the church leaders to do what they are doing. I know some people like to come up with a scenario that eases their cognitive dissonance. Doesn't make it true.

I have my interpretation of what is going on here.

But what is your interpretation? Is the Church true? Are the keys of the kingdom of God on earth in it or not?

What is your view?

Regardless of where you think keys reside, they are only valid when lived in righteousness. These men have distorted the law and made lesser gods of themselves. The very definition of priestcraft. Sure, most people in the church will never see this. For them, these men cannot lead them astray. They’ve been told that God will not allow it. God compels no one and honors agency, both for a servant as well as a saint. When either party steps out of line, it is the responsibility of the individual to stand with God. Hence the counsel given to us in JST Mark 9. This can come through God calling people to repentance through a prophet, or for a people to cast off their leaders and follow the Holy Ghost. The scriptures are full of both examples.

[InfoWarrior82]

God allows everything, it's called agency. That doesn't mean God is in any way directing the church leaders to do what they are doing. I know some people like to come up with a scenario that eases their cognitive dissonance. Doesn't make it true.

I have my interpretation of what is going on here.

But what is your interpretation? Is the Church true? Are the keys of the kingdom of God on earth in it or not?

What is your view?

Regardless of where you think keys reside, they are only valid when lived in righteousness. These men have distorted the law and made lesser gods of themselves. The very definition of priestcraft. Sure, most people in the church will never see this. For them, these men cannot lead them astray. They’ve been told that God will not allow it. God compels no one and honors agency, both for a servant as well as a saint. When either party steps out of line, it is the responsibility of the individual to stand with God. Hence the counsel given to us in JST Mark 9. This can come through God calling people to repentance through a prophet, or for a people to cast off their leaders and follow the Holy Ghost. The scriptures are full of both examples.

Excellent comment.

For reference: D&C section 121

[creator]

God allows everything, it's called agency. That doesn't mean God is in any way directing the church leaders to do what they are doing. I know some people like to come up with a scenario that eases their cognitive dissonance. Doesn't make it true.

I have my interpretation of what is going on here.

But what is your interpretation? Is the Church true? Are the keys of the kingdom of God on earth in it or not?

What is your view?

I agree that "the Spirit of God outranks them every time." but I disagree with much of your other statements about what you think is going on here.

It's important that we all come unto Christ.

[gradles21]

God allows everything, it's called agency. That doesn't mean God is in any way directing the church leaders to do what they are doing. I know some people like to come up with a scenario that eases their cognitive dissonance. Doesn't make it true.

I have my interpretation of what is going on here.

But what is your interpretation? Is the Church true? Are the keys of the kingdom of God on earth in it or not?

What is your view?

The Gospel and the Church are often used synonymously, but they shouldn't. One is unchanging and true, the other is a corporation led by men and is fallible.

[larsenb]

Here's part of a presentation by "soccer great, Matt LeTissier" posted on Twitter, where he calls for investigation of the myriad deaths of various soccer, etc., athletes, something he had never seen before, either in long daily practices or in competition over 17 years as a professional football player.

https://twitter.com/CitizenFreePres/sta ... 1366712320 ; from 6:44 PM · Nov 1, 2022

@CitizenFreePres

Soccer great Matt LeTissier: “I was a professional football player for 17 years... I never saw one player in my entire career with a heart problem. Not one. Now all these players start collapsing… The media have been complicit in all of this."

[FrankOne]

John the Revelator did not call western medicine sorceries. Yes, the Greek word used is "Pharmakeia," but it is not the same context in the slightest.

Pharmakeia had nothing to do with medicine but more to do with magic potions and sorcery, oftentimes untested and yet marketed as a cure.

All the vaccinations that exist in the world can in no means be called Pharmakeia in the Koine Greek sense. HCQ and IVM can definitely be called pharmakeia in relation to COVID-19.

hm. I've seen twisted interpretations before, but yours tops them all.

Convolution at it's best, as usual.
dc

No. Just a better understanding of Greek than you guys, who try to cherry pick a similar sounding word and then try to say that it means sorcery and then apply it to modern medicine.

There were doctors and physicians that were working during the days of Jesus. There were also witches and sorcerors that used different types of potions and elixirs. Some done in the names of their gods.

Against that was what John preached to the people. But no. I see in this forum a group of people that would be content to go back to the Dark Ages.

keep posting, you get funnier as you go. This is getting quite entertaining.

[NowWhat]

I want to think of a kinder word than "trolls," but I'm at a loss. What would happen if we respond to the trolls' comments by typing "Moving on..." and proceeding to address whatever issues are relevant to us. Or what if we just ignore them altogether? I have several trolls on my Foes list, and happily I'm not exposed to their prattle.

[madvin]

No. Just a better understanding of Greek than you guys, who try to cherry pick a similar sounding word and then try to say that it means sorcery and then apply it to modern medicine.

There were doctors and physicians that were working during the days of Jesus. There were also witches and sorcerors that used different types of potions and elixirs. Some done in the names of their gods.

Against that was what John preached to the people. But no. I see in this forum a group of people that would be content to go back to the Dark Ages.

The word “Physician” is not mentioned in the Bible

Neither the word Physician nor the word Doctor is used in the Bible. The word mistranslated as Physician is actually the word healer. It is the translators who have presumptuously – and wrongly – defined a Physician – a present-day Doctor - as a healer.

But the Bible, in the original, says something quite different.

Who claims to be our Healer?

God says, “I am the Lord who heals you.” Exodus 15:26

“I will take away sickness from among you. . .” Exodus 23:25,26

“He forgives all my sins and heals ALL my Diseases.” Psalm 103:3

“I will give you back your health again and heal your wounds.” Jeremiah 30:17

“The Lord will remove from you all sickness. . .” Deuteronomy 7:15

“My counsel shall stand, and I WILL do ALL my pleasure.: Isaiah 46:10

“Yes, I have spoken it. I will also bring it to Pass. I have purposed it. I will also do it.” Isaiah 46:11

“God cannot lie.” Titus 1:2

“I am the Lord: I will speak, and the word that I shall speak shall come to pass. Ezekiel 12:25

When Jesus was on earth, He NEVER referred anyone to a Physician

[Subcomandante]

No. Just a better understanding of Greek than you guys, who try to cherry pick a similar sounding word and then try to say that it means sorcery and then apply it to modern medicine.

There were doctors and physicians that were working during the days of Jesus. There were also witches and sorcerors that used different types of potions and elixirs. Some done in the names of their gods.

Against that was what John preached to the people. But no. I see in this forum a group of people that would be content to go back to the Dark Ages.

The word “Physician” is not mentioned in the Bible

Neither the word Physician nor the word Doctor is used in the Bible. The word mistranslated as Physician is actually the word healer. It is the translators who have presumptuously – and wrongly – defined a Physician – a present-day Doctor - as a healer.

But the Bible, in the original, says something quite different.

Who claims to be our Healer?

God says, “I am the Lord who heals you.” Exodus 15:26

“I will take away sickness from among you. . .” Exodus 23:25,26

“He forgives all my sins and heals ALL my Diseases.” Psalm 103:3

“I will give you back your health again and heal your wounds.” Jeremiah 30:17

“The Lord will remove from you all sickness. . .” Deuteronomy 7:15

“My counsel shall stand, and I WILL do ALL my pleasure.: Isaiah 46:10

“Yes, I have spoken it. I will also bring it to Pass. I have purposed it. I will also do it.” Isaiah 46:11

“God cannot lie.” Titus 1:2

“I am the Lord: I will speak, and the word that I shall speak shall come to pass. Ezekiel 12:25

When Jesus was on earth, He NEVER referred anyone to a Physician

Why would he refer anyone to a physician? He was called the Chief Physician.

[madvin]

Why would he refer anyone to a physician? He was called the Chief Physician.

Healer

[Obeone]

I agree that "the Spirit of God outranks them every time." but I disagree with much of your other statements about what you think is going on here.

It's important that we all come unto Christ.

Which brings me to the next question: What's your story? How did you start LDS Freedom Forum?
Sounds like you are or used to be LDS. Is that correct?

What was your journey? What happened?

(Sorry for prying, but it is fascinating.)

[creator]

Which brings me to the next question: What's your story? How did you start LDS Freedom Forum?
Sounds like you are or used to be LDS. Is that correct?

What was your journey? What happened?

(Sorry for prying, but it is fascinating.)

I posted my story and how I started LDS Freedom Forum here >>

I am LDS/Mormon, strive to be a disciple of Christ, and I'm a truth seeker.

[Obeone]

I am LDS/Mormon, strive to be a disciple of Christ, and I'm a truth seeker.

Thanks.

So what do you think is going on with the Church?

[creator]

So what do you think is going on with the Church?

It's in a state of apostasy.

[HereWeGo]

I want to think of a kinder word than "trolls," but I'm at a loss. What would happen if we respond to the trolls' comments by typing "Moving on..." and proceeding to address whatever issues are relevant to us. Or what if we just ignore them altogether? I have several trolls on my Foes list, and happily I'm not exposed to their prattle.

You've got it. The main thing is to ignore posters when it is clear that they are not here to learn. A lot of us need to do this more often. There are several threads where there are 2-3 people dominating the posting BUT they are being respectful and just putting out information. They seem to be in an open & learning space. Ignore those who are not.

[Obeone]

So what do you think is going on with the Church?

It's in a state of apostasy.

You were quoting Ezra T Benson. I assume you do not consider him to be in apostasy or a false prophet?