I'm confused;

[Reluctant Watchman]

Yeah, can you believe I'm telling people to pray about it? I can understand why you're objecting so strongly.

I actually don’t recall you inviting anyone to pray about anything in this thread. I also highly doubt you understand why I believe the way I do.

[Artaxerxes]

Yeah, can you believe I'm telling people to pray about it? I can understand why you're objecting so strongly.

I actually don’t recall you inviting anyone to pray about anything in this thread. I also highly doubt you understand why I believe the way I do.

I don't know why you keep overlooking one particular sentence. I know how inconvenient facts can be sometimes, so I guess it's understandable thar you're ignoring me saying "If He hasn't, then you need to ask if it is."

[Ancalagon]

I have been active LDS virtually my entire life. I've been in Bishoprics, been YM Pres, EQ Pres, High Councilman, etc... but when the 1st presidency began urging membership to get the clot shot, followed by many of the brethren declaring these killer jabs as "safe & effective", I was deeply disturbed, and it's only gotteen worse, especially as I've seen friends and family die and/or have serious health problems from them. Since then, my eyes have been opened, and I'm more confused than ever. It seems like a lot of if not most of church h leadership have become "woke". We seen large donations of tithes and offerings going to woke (Satanic) organizations like the UN. I hear brethren basically regurgitating leftist talking points, especially about non-existent "racism", such as what happened at BYU Women's volleyball, where none of what was accussed happened. I'm bewildered. Things about the church that never bothered me before are now very disconcerting, such as the similarities between our temple ordinances & signs and the Masonic lodge. Now I'm seeing multiple accusations toward the church as being part of a CIA mind control program called Monarch, and accusations of long term physical and serial abuse of children as part of this program. I'm hearing about the "Left hand of God" within the LDS church, and many of those making the allegations don't appear to have much to gain by doing so. I'm truly confused.

While I still have a strong testimony of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, as of right now I have zero faith in the church as an organization. Has the church h "fallen"? If so, how long ago? Or are many of the leaders being deceived? Am I being deceived? How can I pay tithes that are given to satanic organization?

Bottom line; it is indeed a hard time, where evil is declared good, and vice versa. I'm hoping joining this forum and listening to those on this board can help me find peace, whether in the church, or outside it but still within the gospel of Christ.

Welcome to the forum! I am in a pretty similar situation as well, so I think I know how you feel, though my doubts started creeping in a year or so before the scamdemic started, but definitely accelerated with all the craziness since. There are great people on the forum and lively discussions. Just wanted to say you are not alone.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Yeah, can you believe I'm telling people to pray about it? I can understand why you're objecting so strongly.

I actually don’t recall you inviting anyone to pray about anything in this thread. I also highly doubt you understand why I believe the way I do.

I don't know why you keep overlooking one particular sentence. I know how inconvenient facts can be sometimes, so I guess it's understandable thar you're ignoring me saying "If He hasn't, then you need to ask if it is."

Ah, looky there, you did. I don’t know, but I’m sure this person has been asking a lot of questions the past year and a half. I think many on the forum asked a similar question: “…then you need to ask if it was.” (Past tense)

[Chip]

I have been active LDS virtually my entire life. I've been in Bishoprics, been YM Pres, EQ Pres, High Councilman, etc... but when the 1st presidency began urging membership to get the clot shot, followed by many of the brethren declaring these killer jabs as "safe & effective", I was deeply disturbed, and it's only gotteen worse, especially as I've seen friends and family die and/or have serious health problems from them. Since then, my eyes have been opened, and I'm more confused than ever. It seems like a lot of if not most of church h leadership have become "woke". We seen large donations of tithes and offerings going to woke (Satanic) organizations like the UN. I hear brethren basically regurgitating leftist talking points, especially about non-existent "racism", such as what happened at BYU Women's volleyball, where none of what was accussed happened. I'm bewildered. Things about the church that never bothered me before are now very disconcerting, such as the similarities between our temple ordinances & signs and the Masonic lodge. Now I'm seeing multiple accusations toward the church as being part of a CIA mind control program called Monarch, and accusations of long term physical and serial abuse of children as part of this program. I'm hearing about the "Left hand of God" within the LDS church, and many of those making the allegations don't appear to have much to gain by doing so. I'm truly confused.

While I still have a strong testimony of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, as of right now I have zero faith in the church as an organization. Has the church h "fallen"? If so, how long ago? Or are many of the leaders being deceived? Am I being deceived? How can I pay tithes that are given to satanic organization?

Bottom line; it is indeed a hard time, where evil is declared good, and vice versa. I'm hoping joining this forum and listening to those on this board can help me find peace, whether in the church, or outside it but still within the gospel of Christ.

It sounds like the church hasn't changed, but you have. That happens to lots of folk. If the Lord told you before that this was His church, then it still is. If He hasn't, then you need to ask if it is.

Nevervaxxed, beware of this troll. He/she/it is downright evil much of the time. Don't let its words cause you to second-guess your instincts.

[thaabit]

I can feel your pain, brother. I remember when we used to talk about the last days and preparedness in church. Something has certainly changed. The lessons are watered down to the minimal possible doctrinal level, and are often little more than group therapy and the gospel of make-things-up mingled with a few GC quotes. But, then there are so many factions among the semi-to-fully disaffected that it's hard to know where to turn for truth. We all have much to learn, it seems.

[FrankOne]

In regards to the original post,

It's all so baffling. Doctors are baffled at all the deaths, Apostles are baffled at the backlash from members, steadfast "follow the prophet" members are baffled that others don't get vaxed.

so... we can choose to be baffled and accept the prescriptions of the state and church or we can be observant, honest, and true.

time to cut the umbilical cord and walk free.

[cab]

The church, as instituted by Joseph, has changed, drastically in fact. Most members have no idea what Joseph actually taught about a variety of topics. Also, almost all of the things he listed were things the church has done, and none of them had to do with changes he had made. So to make the claim that he changed is very much incorrect.

You misunderstand my post.

I don't think OP is claiming that he held church callings and didn't doubt during the 1830s. I think he's saying that just a few years ago he didn't have problems, but now he does. He listed things like Masonry, CIA conspiracy theories, and the like. Those aren't new. If the church was true 10 years ago, then he can dismiss his concerns. The church certainly hasn't become MORE masonic since then. OP was fairly open about things "never bothered me before" suddenly becoming an issue. That is a clear indication that he has changed, not the church.

The gospel of Christ is true. It is those things he was hanging on to. It's when you begin to peel back the layers that you discover what you thought was the lord's church is just a facade. A bunch of charlatans. And sure, maybe a few of them truly are doing their best given where they are, but that doesn't change the fact that much has been distorted and even completely contradicts what Christ taught in the scriptures. Sure, the BoM is truly another witness of the Lord, but that doesn't mean that the lord will always sustain this organization. In fact, he prophesied to the contrary.

You completely changed the issue, so I'll say it again: If OP was told by the Lord that this was His church 10 years ago, then he can dismiss his concerns about things that never bothered him before.

If 10 years ago, he believed the Lord told him “the church is true”, and now he believes the Lord is indicating that it isn’t, then he should prayerfully scrutinize what he has accepted as an answer from the Lord both past and present.

For me, I’ve come to understand that what I used to believe was the Holy Ghost was likely the positive emotive response that occurs when my currently held beliefs are reaffirmed to me. Also known as emotional confirmation bias.

[cab]

I have been active LDS virtually my entire life. I've been in Bishoprics, been YM Pres, EQ Pres, High Councilman, etc... but when the 1st presidency began urging membership to get the clot shot, followed by many of the brethren declaring these killer jabs as "safe & effective", I was deeply disturbed, and it's only gotteen worse, especially as I've seen friends and family die and/or have serious health problems from them. Since then, my eyes have been opened, and I'm more confused than ever. It seems like a lot of if not most of church h leadership have become "woke". We seen large donations of tithes and offerings going to woke (Satanic) organizations like the UN. I hear brethren basically regurgitating leftist talking points, especially about non-existent "racism", such as what happened at BYU Women's volleyball, where none of what was accussed happened. I'm bewildered. Things about the church that never bothered me before are now very disconcerting, such as the similarities between our temple ordinances & signs and the Masonic lodge. Now I'm seeing multiple accusations toward the church as being part of a CIA mind control program called Monarch, and accusations of long term physical and serial abuse of children as part of this program. I'm hearing about the "Left hand of God" within the LDS church, and many of those making the allegations don't appear to have much to gain by doing so. I'm truly confused.

While I still have a strong testimony of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, as of right now I have zero faith in the church as an organization. Has the church h "fallen"? If so, how long ago? Or are many of the leaders being deceived? Am I being deceived? How can I pay tithes that are given to satanic organization?

Bottom line; it is indeed a hard time, where evil is declared good, and vice versa. I'm hoping joining this forum and listening to those on this board can help me find peace, whether in the church, or outside it but still within the gospel of Christ.

There are many here like you and many good resources available which have been produced by like minded folks who have awaken to serious problems within the church yet can’t deny the core doctrines taught at the onset of Joseph Smith’s ministry.

It can be incredibly unnerving at first, but all things start to make sense as you come to realize that the strait and narrow path cannot ever be walked by the mainstream masses. Few be there that find it, but what a glorious find it is. Cling to Jesus and all will work out.

[cyclOps]

I have been active LDS virtually my entire life. I've been in Bishoprics, been YM Pres, EQ Pres, High Councilman, etc... but when the 1st presidency began urging membership to get the clot shot, followed by many of the brethren declaring these killer jabs as "safe & effective", I was deeply disturbed, and it's only gotteen worse, especially as I've seen friends and family die and/or have serious health problems from them. Since then, my eyes have been opened, and I'm more confused than ever. It seems like a lot of if not most of church h leadership have become "woke". We seen large donations of tithes and offerings going to woke (Satanic) organizations like the UN. I hear brethren basically regurgitating leftist talking points, especially about non-existent "racism", such as what happened at BYU Women's volleyball, where none of what was accussed happened. I'm bewildered. Things about the church that never bothered me before are now very disconcerting, such as the similarities between our temple ordinances & signs and the Masonic lodge. Now I'm seeing multiple accusations toward the church as being part of a CIA mind control program called Monarch, and accusations of long term physical and serial abuse of children as part of this program. I'm hearing about the "Left hand of God" within the LDS church, and many of those making the allegations don't appear to have much to gain by doing so. I'm truly confused.

While I still have a strong testimony of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, as of right now I have zero faith in the church as an organization. Has the church h "fallen"? If so, how long ago? Or are many of the leaders being deceived? Am I being deceived? How can I pay tithes that are given to satanic organization?

Bottom line; it is indeed a hard time, where evil is declared good, and vice versa. I'm hoping joining this forum and listening to those on this board can help me find peace, whether in the church, or outside it but still within the gospel of Christ.

It sounds like the church hasn't changed, but you have. That happens to lots of folk. If the Lord told you before that this was His church, then it still is. If He hasn't, then you need to ask if it is.

Nevervaxxed, beware of this troll. He/she/it is downright evil much of the time. Don't let its words cause you to second-guess your instincts.

Evil?

[Chip]

I have been active LDS virtually my entire life. I've been in Bishoprics, been YM Pres, EQ Pres, High Councilman, etc... but when the 1st presidency began urging membership to get the clot shot, followed by many of the brethren declaring these killer jabs as "safe & effective", I was deeply disturbed, and it's only gotteen worse, especially as I've seen friends and family die and/or have serious health problems from them. Since then, my eyes have been opened, and I'm more confused than ever. It seems like a lot of if not most of church h leadership have become "woke". We seen large donations of tithes and offerings going to woke (Satanic) organizations like the UN. I hear brethren basically regurgitating leftist talking points, especially about non-existent "racism", such as what happened at BYU Women's volleyball, where none of what was accussed happened. I'm bewildered. Things about the church that never bothered me before are now very disconcerting, such as the similarities between our temple ordinances & signs and the Masonic lodge. Now I'm seeing multiple accusations toward the church as being part of a CIA mind control program called Monarch, and accusations of long term physical and serial abuse of children as part of this program. I'm hearing about the "Left hand of God" within the LDS church, and many of those making the allegations don't appear to have much to gain by doing so. I'm truly confused.

While I still have a strong testimony of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, as of right now I have zero faith in the church as an organization. Has the church h "fallen"? If so, how long ago? Or are many of the leaders being deceived? Am I being deceived? How can I pay tithes that are given to satanic organization?

Bottom line; it is indeed a hard time, where evil is declared good, and vice versa. I'm hoping joining this forum and listening to those on this board can help me find peace, whether in the church, or outside it but still within the gospel of Christ.

It sounds like the church hasn't changed, but you have. That happens to lots of folk. If the Lord told you before that this was His church, then it still is. If He hasn't, then you need to ask if it is.

Nevervaxxed, beware of this troll. He/she/it is downright evil much of the time. Don't let its words cause you to second-guess your instincts.

Evil?

That is correct.

That will be all.

[ransomme]

The church, as instituted by Joseph, has changed, drastically in fact. Most members have no idea what Joseph actually taught about a variety of topics. Also, almost all of the things he listed were things the church has done, and none of them had to do with changes he had made. So to make the claim that he changed is very much incorrect.

You misunderstand my post.

I don't think OP is claiming that he held church callings and didn't doubt during the 1830s. I think he's saying that just a few years ago he didn't have problems, but now he does. He listed things like Masonry, CIA conspiracy theories, and the like. Those aren't new. If the church was true 10 years ago, then he can dismiss his concerns. The church certainly hasn't become MORE masonic since then. OP was fairly open about things "never bothered me before" suddenly becoming an issue. That is a clear indication that he has changed, not the church.

The gospel of Christ is true. It is those things he was hanging on to. It's when you begin to peel back the layers that you discover what you thought was the lord's church is just a facade. A bunch of charlatans. And sure, maybe a few of them truly are doing their best given where they are, but that doesn't change the fact that much has been distorted and even completely contradicts what Christ taught in the scriptures. Sure, the BoM is truly another witness of the Lord, but that doesn't mean that the lord will always sustain this organization. In fact, he prophesied to the contrary.

You completely changed the issue, so I'll say it again: If OP was told by the Lord that this was His church 10 years ago, then he can dismiss his concerns about things that never bothered him before.

Having a testimony of the Gospel of Christ, of Joseph Smith's calling, of the BoM, etc doesn't mean that the CoJCoLDS is true. It means those other things are.

Just like in ancient Israel, or with the Nephites, the Church was not what was true, as demonstrated by it often being in apostasy. Really, an organization itself can't be "true". It's the doctrines, teachings, etc that are true or false.

Are we disciples of Christ or followers of an organization no matter what they do?

Disciples of Christ should be alarmed, even outraged by evil teachings and doings. Supporting UN BS is inexcusable. Going woke is departing from the Way. Pushing the UN's version of sustainability is tyrannical. And so forth.

[Nevervaxxed]

Thanks to all of you on this forum for your support and thoughts. For what it's worth, of course I have prayed much and studied in my efforts to find the truth. To the one person who keeps insisting that I've changed, I guess technically he's right, but as I've stated, it's BECAUSE the church has changed; those defending the church's urging to take the death jab never even consider the insidiousness of urging members to put this poison into our bodies - but you better not drink Dr Pepper! Or coffee (the horror)!! Whatever happened to the word of wisdom??? I cannot imagine a prophet of God giving that direction, and the lies of the brethren, in conference, which supposedly makes their words "scripture", saying these shots are "safe and effective", gives me great pause. Now, I am questioning everything; Joseph's polygamy, masonic lodge similarities, The book of Abraham, and so much more. If they are willing to lie to us about a deadly shot, surely they're capable and probably have lied about a LOT of things!

[NowWhat]

Either they are PSRs or they're not. I don't see middle ground. We know that they were 180 degrees off base on everything since 2020, so there you are. Then, Pandora's Box has been opened: What else is there? Painful stuff, cognitive dissonance.

[Mamabear]

Thanks to all of you on this forum for your support and thoughts. For what it's worth, of course I have prayed much and studied in my efforts to find the truth. To the one person who keeps insisting that I've changed, I guess technically he's right, but as I've stated, it's BECAUSE the church has changed; those defending the church's urging to take the death jab never even consider the insidiousness of urging members to put this poison into our bodies - but you better not drink Dr Pepper! Or coffee (the horror)!! Whatever happened to the word of wisdom??? I cannot imagine a prophet of God giving that direction, and the lies of the brethren, in conference, which supposedly makes their words "scripture", saying these shots are "safe and effective", gives me great pause. Now, I am questioning everything; Joseph's polygamy, masonic lodge similarities, The book of Abraham, and so much more. If they are willing to lie to us about a deadly shot, surely they're capable and probably have lied about a LOT of things!

Well said friend. Welcome to the forum.

[Chip]

Thanks to all of you on this forum for your support and thoughts. For what it's worth, of course I have prayed much and studied in my efforts to find the truth. To the one person who keeps insisting that I've changed, I guess technically he's right, but as I've stated, it's BECAUSE the church has changed; those defending the church's urging to take the death jab never even consider the insidiousness of urging members to put this poison into our bodies - but you better not drink Dr Pepper! Or coffee (the horror)!! Whatever happened to the word of wisdom??? I cannot imagine a prophet of God giving that direction, and the lies of the brethren, in conference, which supposedly makes their words "scripture", saying these shots are "safe and effective", gives me great pause. Now, I am questioning everything; Joseph's polygamy, masonic lodge similarities, The book of Abraham, and so much more. If they are willing to lie to us about a deadly shot, surely they're capable and probably have lied about a LOT of things!

A friend just sent me these excerpts from prophecies that Julie Green has been given this year, which relate to Mormons and Utah.

71833.jpeg (417.42 KiB) Viewed 993 times

71835.jpeg (553.21 KiB) Viewed 993 times

[Nevervaxxed]

I'm not familiar with Julie Green, but I pray she is right! And it doesn't take any revelation to see what Romney is, but still so many miss it, especially the "elite" in the church. My wife and I know some, are related to some as well. All woke to one degree or another, and all "promoted" to higher callings recently...

[Artaxerxes]

Yeah, can you believe I'm telling people to pray about it? I can understand why you're objecting so strongly.

I actually don’t recall you inviting anyone to pray about anything in this thread. I also highly doubt you understand why I believe the way I do.

I don't know why you keep overlooking one particular sentence. I know how inconvenient facts can be sometimes, so I guess it's understandable thar you're ignoring me saying "If He hasn't, then you need to ask if it is."

Ah, looky there, you did. I don’t know, but I’m sure this person has been asking a lot of questions the past year and a half. I think many on the forum asked a similar question: “…then you need to ask if it was.” (Past tense)

.... You spend a great many posts about how I shouldn't assume more than what is in OP, then go with this gigantic assumption, huh?

[Artaxerxes]

You misunderstand my post.

I don't think OP is claiming that he held church callings and didn't doubt during the 1830s. I think he's saying that just a few years ago he didn't have problems, but now he does. He listed things like Masonry, CIA conspiracy theories, and the like. Those aren't new. If the church was true 10 years ago, then he can dismiss his concerns. The church certainly hasn't become MORE masonic since then. OP was fairly open about things "never bothered me before" suddenly becoming an issue. That is a clear indication that he has changed, not the church.

The gospel of Christ is true. It is those things he was hanging on to. It's when you begin to peel back the layers that you discover what you thought was the lord's church is just a facade. A bunch of charlatans. And sure, maybe a few of them truly are doing their best given where they are, but that doesn't change the fact that much has been distorted and even completely contradicts what Christ taught in the scriptures. Sure, the BoM is truly another witness of the Lord, but that doesn't mean that the lord will always sustain this organization. In fact, he prophesied to the contrary.

You completely changed the issue, so I'll say it again: If OP was told by the Lord that this was His church 10 years ago, then he can dismiss his concerns about things that never bothered him before.

Having a testimony of the Gospel of Christ, of Joseph Smith's calling, of the BoM, etc doesn't mean that the CoJCoLDS is true. It means those other things are.

Just like in ancient Israel, or with the Nephites, the Church was not what was true, as demonstrated by it often being in apostasy. Really, an organization itself can't be "true". It's the doctrines, teachings, etc that are true or false.

Are we disciples of Christ or followers of an organization no matter what they do?

Disciples of Christ should be alarmed, even outraged by evil teachings and doings. Supporting UN BS is inexcusable. Going woke is departing from the Way. Pushing the UN's version of sustainability is tyrannical. And so forth.

It's probably a good idea to read posts before responding....

[Artaxerxes]

I have been active LDS virtually my entire life. I've been in Bishoprics, been YM Pres, EQ Pres, High Councilman, etc... but when the 1st presidency began urging membership to get the clot shot, followed by many of the brethren declaring these killer jabs as "safe & effective", I was deeply disturbed, and it's only gotteen worse, especially as I've seen friends and family die and/or have serious health problems from them. Since then, my eyes have been opened, and I'm more confused than ever. It seems like a lot of if not most of church h leadership have become "woke". We seen large donations of tithes and offerings going to woke (Satanic) organizations like the UN. I hear brethren basically regurgitating leftist talking points, especially about non-existent "racism", such as what happened at BYU Women's volleyball, where none of what was accussed happened. I'm bewildered. Things about the church that never bothered me before are now very disconcerting, such as the similarities between our temple ordinances & signs and the Masonic lodge. Now I'm seeing multiple accusations toward the church as being part of a CIA mind control program called Monarch, and accusations of long term physical and serial abuse of children as part of this program. I'm hearing about the "Left hand of God" within the LDS church, and many of those making the allegations don't appear to have much to gain by doing so. I'm truly confused.

While I still have a strong testimony of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, as of right now I have zero faith in the church as an organization. Has the church h "fallen"? If so, how long ago? Or are many of the leaders being deceived? Am I being deceived? How can I pay tithes that are given to satanic organization?

Bottom line; it is indeed a hard time, where evil is declared good, and vice versa. I'm hoping joining this forum and listening to those on this board can help me find peace, whether in the church, or outside it but still within the gospel of Christ.

It sounds like the church hasn't changed, but you have. That happens to lots of folk. If the Lord told you before that this was His church, then it still is. If He hasn't, then you need to ask if it is.

Nevervaxxed, beware of this troll. He/she/it is downright evil much of the time. Don't let its words cause you to second-guess your instincts.

Yes, just keep going with your feelings and don't pray about it.

I certainly appreciate you fulfilling the prophecy of Isaiah 5:20.

[Chip]

I'm not familiar with Julie Green, but I pray she is right! And it doesn't take any revelation to see what Romney is, but still so many miss it, especially the "elite" in the church. My wife and I know some, are related to some as well. All woke to one degree or another, and all "promoted" to higher callings recently...

I just posted about one of her latest videos from yesterday. Very interesting stuff that speaks to what you and many of us are thinking about:

viewtopic.php?t=68390

[endlessQuestions]

I have been active LDS virtually my entire life. I've been in Bishoprics, been YM Pres, EQ Pres, High Councilman, etc... but when the 1st presidency began urging membership to get the clot shot, followed by many of the brethren declaring these killer jabs as "safe & effective", I was deeply disturbed, and it's only gotteen worse, especially as I've seen friends and family die and/or have serious health problems from them. Since then, my eyes have been opened, and I'm more confused than ever. It seems like a lot of if not most of church h leadership have become "woke". We seen large donations of tithes and offerings going to woke (Satanic) organizations like the UN. I hear brethren basically regurgitating leftist talking points, especially about non-existent "racism", such as what happened at BYU Women's volleyball, where none of what was accussed happened. I'm bewildered. Things about the church that never bothered me before are now very disconcerting, such as the similarities between our temple ordinances & signs and the Masonic lodge. Now I'm seeing multiple accusations toward the church as being part of a CIA mind control program called Monarch, and accusations of long term physical and serial abuse of children as part of this program. I'm hearing about the "Left hand of God" within the LDS church, and many of those making the allegations don't appear to have much to gain by doing so. I'm truly confused.

While I still have a strong testimony of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, as of right now I have zero faith in the church as an organization. Has the church h "fallen"? If so, how long ago? Or are many of the leaders being deceived? Am I being deceived? How can I pay tithes that are given to satanic organization?

Bottom line; it is indeed a hard time, where evil is declared good, and vice versa. I'm hoping joining this forum and listening to those on this board can help me find peace, whether in the church, or outside it but still within the gospel of Christ.

It sounds like the church hasn't changed, but you have. That happens to lots of folk. If the Lord told you before that this was His church, then it still is. If He hasn't, then you need to ask if it is.

Meet Art. He’s here to use his strange brand of logic to make you feel ashamed and hopefully get you back on the strait and narrow.

Sounds like you’re in the thick of it right now. It’s a tough spot. Many here have given up. Some have not. You’ll find a group of people willing to listen and share, so I hope you enjoy your time here.

[Nevervaxxed]

Thanks all, I can't even tell what "Art" is talking about in his last couple of posts, but it is obvious that he thinks being snide will win those of us struggling with the CHURCH, not the gospel of Christ, back. Does Art always have to be right, and get the last word? Seems that way...
Art, I get it, I need to pray. Thanks for the advice, and as I've already stated I have been and will continue to do so. I recommend you do likewise - you can never pray to much! But Art, you do not come across as caring or trying to help in any way. You come across as a judgmental and uncaring? Do you happen to be a lefty?? Perhaps so many on this board would find you more tolerable if you got off your high horse. Now, ate you humble enough to endure criticism? We shall see...

[Artaxerxes]

Thanks all, I can't even tell what "Art" is talking about in his last couple of posts, but it is obvious that he thinks being snide will win those of us struggling with the CHURCH, not the gospel of Christ, back. Does Art always have to be right, and get the last word? Seems that way...
Art, I get it, I need to pray. Thanks for the advice, and as I've already stated I have been and will continue to do so. I recommend you do likewise - you can never pray to much! But Art, you do not come across as caring or trying to help in any way. You come across as a judgmental and uncaring? Do you happen to be a lefty?? Perhaps so many on this board would find you more tolerable if you got off your high horse. Now, ate you humble enough to endure criticism? We shall see...

What do you think I was judgmental about?

I'm a conservative.

I understand that people don't like hearing things they don't like that. Sometimes people take that to be haughtiness. I just disagree. That's all.

[Shawn Henry]

Has the church "fallen"? If so, how long ago?

Yes! When they rejected coming into the Lord's presence by failing to build Zion in 1832/33.

In May of 1834, Jospeh presided at a conference where Christ's name was removed from the church. It was changed from the Church of Christ to The Church of Latter Day Saints, fulfilling Christ's warnings in the BoM when a church is not called by his name. This began the fulfilment of Isaish's words that the eyes of the Seers would be closed because of the wickedness of the people.

In Nauvoo, the Lord gave them another chance. They were told they would have the fulness restored to them, if they finished the Nauvoo House, which they never did and were hence rejected as a church with their dead.