How do you leave the forum?

[Reluctant Watchman]

There's more to come, but that doesn't change the fact that Jacob 5 and the D&C say that the servants were sent out for the last time to prune the vineyard beginning in 1830.

Nor does it change the fact that the D&C and teachings of Joseph Smith say that the Lord's one and only true church and kingdom in the last days was restored in 1830 as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and that it would role forth until it fills the whole earth and that no unhallowed hand can stop it.

Nephi would most likely disagree. There were only two churches. The LDS church loves to puff up its chest and hold this "one and only" badge of honor.

[LDS Watchman]

There's more to come, but that doesn't change the fact that Jacob 5 and the D&C say that the servants were sent out for the last time to prune the vineyard beginning in 1830.

Nor does it change the fact that the D&C and teachings of Joseph Smith say that the Lord's one and only true church and kingdom in the last days was restored in 1830 as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and that it would role forth until it fills the whole earth and that no unhallowed hand can stop it.

Nephi would most likely disagree. There were only two churches. The LDS church loves to puff up its chest and hold this "one and only" badge of honor.

Nephi would disagree with the revelations of Jesus Christ and the teachings of the Joseph Smith? Fascinating.

[Hosh]

Maybe we could talk about Jacob 5, there’s some fun stuff in there.

Yeah Jacob 5 is great. It tells us all about how the church was restored for the last time and the laborers sent out to prune the vineyard for the last time beginning in 1830.

Let's talk all about that.

If by "laborers" you're talking about 18 years olds coming into my home and asking me to role-play and pretend I'm an investigator so they can practice their word for word robotic invitations on me.... then yes let's talk about that.

[Reluctant Watchman]

There's more to come, but that doesn't change the fact that Jacob 5 and the D&C say that the servants were sent out for the last time to prune the vineyard beginning in 1830.

Nor does it change the fact that the D&C and teachings of Joseph Smith say that the Lord's one and only true church and kingdom in the last days was restored in 1830 as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and that it would role forth until it fills the whole earth and that no unhallowed hand can stop it.

Nephi would most likely disagree. There were only two churches. The LDS church loves to puff up its chest and hold this "one and only" badge of honor.

Nephi would disagree with the revelations of Jesus Christ and the teachings of the Joseph Smith? Fascinating.

Joseph Smith would not take the same perspective as you. I mean, if his "friends" killed him, blamed polygamy on him, tarnished his name and reputation, and drug his wife's name through the mud..... yeah, I'm sure he'd have a different perspective.

[LDS Watchman]

Maybe we could talk about Jacob 5, there’s some fun stuff in there.

Yeah Jacob 5 is great. It tells us all about how the church was restored for the last time and the laborers sent out to prune the vineyard for the last time beginning in 1830.

Let's talk all about that.

If by "laborers" you're talking about 18 years olds coming into my home and asking me to role-play and pretend I'm an investigator so they can practice their word for word robotic invitations on me.... then yes let's talk about that.

Sure, let's talk about that. I've had the missionaries over plenty of times and have never once in all my years in the church experienced what you just described. In fact, I just had the missionaries over at my house last night and they bore a simple but powerful testimony of Jesus Christ and extended our family with a genuine heart felt invitation that if followed will lead us closer to Him. I was grateful for their message.

[LDS Watchman]

There's more to come, but that doesn't change the fact that Jacob 5 and the D&C say that the servants were sent out for the last time to prune the vineyard beginning in 1830.

Nor does it change the fact that the D&C and teachings of Joseph Smith say that the Lord's one and only true church and kingdom in the last days was restored in 1830 as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and that it would role forth until it fills the whole earth and that no unhallowed hand can stop it.

Nephi would most likely disagree. There were only two churches. The LDS church loves to puff up its chest and hold this "one and only" badge of honor.

Nephi would disagree with the revelations of Jesus Christ and the teachings of the Joseph Smith? Fascinating.

Joseph Smith would not take the same perspective as you. I mean, if his "friends" killed him, blamed polygamy on him, tarnished his name and reputation, and drug his wife's name through the mud..... yeah, I'm sure he'd have a different perspective.

Yeah, none of this is true.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Yeah, none of this is true.

I would heartily disagree. There is plenty of evidence that you choose to turn a blind eye to.

In fact, I think we can learn a lot about what premonitions Joseph had just the day before he was murdered. His "Dilapidated Barn" dream was quite telling.

https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/josephs-last-dreams

Don't worry, I'm not including this link for you to read. It's for the other people who want to know about the experiences he had and to know Joseph on a more personal level. His other two dreams are just as telling.

Of course, God's work will go forward, just not in the way the pompous and prideful LDS org thinks it will.

[LDS Watchman]

Yeah, none of this is true.

I would heartily disagree. There is plenty of evidence that you choose to turn a blind eye to.

In fact, I think we can learn a lot about what premonitions Joseph had just the day before he was murdered. His "Dilapidated Barn" dream was quite telling.

https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/josephs-last-dreams

Don't worry, I'm not including this link for you to read. It's for the other people who want to know about the experiences he had and to know Joseph on a more personal level. His other two dreams are just as telling.

Of course, God's work will go forward, just not in the way the pompous and prideful LDS org thinks it will.

Oh, you mean the evidence where dozens of very credible witnesses who didn't follow Brigham Young testified that Joseph Smith taught and practiced polygamy?

Or that Emma ran off with some adulterous unbelieving drunk and lied through her teeth to her own children.

Yes, YOU are most definitely turning a blind eye to this.

As for Joseph's last dream. I'm very familiar with it. No interpretation was given and I put no stock in your spin on it.

And what's even funnier is that you keep accusing the church of not believing what Joseph Smith taught, while you reject many of his teachings in favor of your own ideas.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Yeah, none of this is true.

I would heartily disagree. There is plenty of evidence that you choose to turn a blind eye to.

In fact, I think we can learn a lot about what premonitions Joseph had just the day before he was murdered. His "Dilapidated Barn" dream was quite telling.

https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/josephs-last-dreams

Don't worry, I'm not including this link for you to read. It's for the other people who want to know about the experiences he had and to know Joseph on a more personal level. His other two dreams are just as telling.

Of course, God's work will go forward, just not in the way the pompous and prideful LDS org thinks it will.

Oh, you mean the evidence where dozens of very credible witnesses who didn't follow Brigham Young testified that Joseph Smith taught and practiced polygamy?

Or that Emma ran off with some adulterous unbelieving drunk and lied through her teeth to her own children.

Yes, YOU are most definitely turning a blind eye to this.

As for Joseph's last dream. I'm very familiar with it. No interpretation was given and I put no stock in your spin on it.

And what's even funnier is that you keep accusing the church of not believing what Joseph Smith taught, while you reject many of his teachings in favor of your own ideas.

That’s ok, people lied about Joseph. I’m excited for you to meet w/ Joseph and Emma some day. You can explain how you’ve drug both of their names through the mud.

[LDS Watchman]

Yeah, none of this is true.

I would heartily disagree. There is plenty of evidence that you choose to turn a blind eye to.

In fact, I think we can learn a lot about what premonitions Joseph had just the day before he was murdered. His "Dilapidated Barn" dream was quite telling.

https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/josephs-last-dreams

Don't worry, I'm not including this link for you to read. It's for the other people who want to know about the experiences he had and to know Joseph on a more personal level. His other two dreams are just as telling.

Of course, God's work will go forward, just not in the way the pompous and prideful LDS org thinks it will.

Oh, you mean the evidence where dozens of very credible witnesses who didn't follow Brigham Young testified that Joseph Smith taught and practiced polygamy?

Or that Emma ran off with some adulterous unbelieving drunk and lied through her teeth to her own children.

Yes, YOU are most definitely turning a blind eye to this.

As for Joseph's last dream. I'm very familiar with it. No interpretation was given and I put no stock in your spin on it.

And what's even funnier is that you keep accusing the church of not believing what Joseph Smith taught, while you reject many of his teachings in favor of your own ideas.

That’s ok, people lied about Joseph. I’m excited for you to meet w/ Joseph and Emma some day. You can explain how you’ve drug both of their names through the mud.

What motivation would Sidney Rigdon and the founders of the RLDS church have to lie about Joseph? None.

And Emma's bizarre marriage to Lewis Bidamon and the lies she told her children are well documented.

And you will one day have to explain to God why you viciously railed against and slandered his saints. And you won't be able to plead ignorance because the truth is right in front of your face.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I would heartily disagree. There is plenty of evidence that you choose to turn a blind eye to.

In fact, I think we can learn a lot about what premonitions Joseph had just the day before he was murdered. His "Dilapidated Barn" dream was quite telling.

https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/josephs-last-dreams

Don't worry, I'm not including this link for you to read. It's for the other people who want to know about the experiences he had and to know Joseph on a more personal level. His other two dreams are just as telling.

Of course, God's work will go forward, just not in the way the pompous and prideful LDS org thinks it will.

Oh, you mean the evidence where dozens of very credible witnesses who didn't follow Brigham Young testified that Joseph Smith taught and practiced polygamy?

Or that Emma ran off with some adulterous unbelieving drunk and lied through her teeth to her own children.

Yes, YOU are most definitely turning a blind eye to this.

As for Joseph's last dream. I'm very familiar with it. No interpretation was given and I put no stock in your spin on it.

And what's even funnier is that you keep accusing the church of not believing what Joseph Smith taught, while you reject many of his teachings in favor of your own ideas.

That’s ok, people lied about Joseph. I’m excited for you to meet w/ Joseph and Emma some day. You can explain how you’ve drug both of their names through the mud.

What motivation would Sidney Rigdon and the founders of the RLDS church have to lie about Joseph? None.

And Emma's bizarre marriage to Lewis Bidamon and the lies she told her children are well documented.

And you will one day have to explain to God why you viciously railed against and slandered his saints. And you won't be able to plead ignorance because the truth is right in front of your face.

Ok, you can preach to me while I’m in hell. I’ll take you up on that.

[Hosh]

Maybe we could talk about Jacob 5, there’s some fun stuff in there.

Yeah Jacob 5 is great. It tells us all about how the church was restored for the last time and the laborers sent out to prune the vineyard for the last time beginning in 1830.

Let's talk all about that.

If by "laborers" you're talking about 18 years olds coming into my home and asking me to role-play and pretend I'm an investigator so they can practice their word for word robotic invitations on me.... then yes let's talk about that.

Sure, let's talk about that. I've had the missionaries over plenty of times and have never once in all my years in the church experienced what you just described. In fact, I just had the missionaries over at my house last night and they bore a simple but powerful testimony of Jesus Christ and extended our family with a genuine heart felt invitation that if followed will lead us closer to Him. I was grateful for their message.

No joke, the last two sets of missionaries role played with us in the exact way I mentioned and asked if they could come back to do the same. I told them no, but if they wanted to come back and share a scripture, or their testimony of Christ, I would love that. The set of missionaries before that shared a 20 minute chirstmas video, then asked us if we knew anyone who would like to watch the video. Again, I told them no. These are not those sent out with power for one last time. Those sent out one last time preaching with power arent going to need preach my gospel manuals to memorize and strict white hand books to keep them in check.

[LDS Watchman]

Oh, you mean the evidence where dozens of very credible witnesses who didn't follow Brigham Young testified that Joseph Smith taught and practiced polygamy?

Or that Emma ran off with some adulterous unbelieving drunk and lied through her teeth to her own children.

Yes, YOU are most definitely turning a blind eye to this.

As for Joseph's last dream. I'm very familiar with it. No interpretation was given and I put no stock in your spin on it.

And what's even funnier is that you keep accusing the church of not believing what Joseph Smith taught, while you reject many of his teachings in favor of your own ideas.

That’s ok, people lied about Joseph. I’m excited for you to meet w/ Joseph and Emma some day. You can explain how you’ve drug both of their names through the mud.

What motivation would Sidney Rigdon and the founders of the RLDS church have to lie about Joseph? None.

And Emma's bizarre marriage to Lewis Bidamon and the lies she told her children are well documented.

And you will one day have to explain to God why you viciously railed against and slandered his saints. And you won't be able to plead ignorance because the truth is right in front of your face.

Ok, you can preach to me while I’m in hell. I’ll take you up on that.

You got it.

But I would much rather you listen before it comes to that.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Those sent out one last time preaching with power arent going to need preach my gospel manuals to memorize and strict white hand books to keep them in check.

I'm pretty sure they won't be wearing white shirts and ties either.

[LDS Watchman]

Yeah Jacob 5 is great. It tells us all about how the church was restored for the last time and the laborers sent out to prune the vineyard for the last time beginning in 1830.

Let's talk all about that.

If by "laborers" you're talking about 18 years olds coming into my home and asking me to role-play and pretend I'm an investigator so they can practice their word for word robotic invitations on me.... then yes let's talk about that.

Sure, let's talk about that. I've had the missionaries over plenty of times and have never once in all my years in the church experienced what you just described. In fact, I just had the missionaries over at my house last night and they bore a simple but powerful testimony of Jesus Christ and extended our family with a genuine heart felt invitation that if followed will lead us closer to Him. I was grateful for their message.

No joke, the last two sets of missionaries role played with us in the exact way I mentioned and asked if they could come back to do the same. I told them no, but if they wanted to come back and share a scripture, or their testimony of Christ, I would love that. The set of missionaries before that shared a 20 minute chirstmas video, then asked us if we knew anyone who would like to watch the video. Again, I told them no. These are not those sent out with power for one last time. Those sent out one last time preaching with power arent going to need preach my gospel manuals to memorize and strict white hand books to keep them in check.

Were these Sister missionaries?

[Hosh]

If by "laborers" you're talking about 18 years olds coming into my home and asking me to role-play and pretend I'm an investigator so they can practice their word for word robotic invitations on me.... then yes let's talk about that.

Sure, let's talk about that. I've had the missionaries over plenty of times and have never once in all my years in the church experienced what you just described. In fact, I just had the missionaries over at my house last night and they bore a simple but powerful testimony of Jesus Christ and extended our family with a genuine heart felt invitation that if followed will lead us closer to Him. I was grateful for their message.

No joke, the last two sets of missionaries role played with us in the exact way I mentioned and asked if they could come back to do the same. I told them no, but if they wanted to come back and share a scripture, or their testimony of Christ, I would love that. The set of missionaries before that shared a 20 minute chirstmas video, then asked us if we knew anyone who would like to watch the video. Again, I told them no. These are not those sent out with power for one last time. Those sent out one last time preaching with power arent going to need preach my gospel manuals to memorize and strict white hand books to keep them in check.

Were these Sister missionaries?

Nope. All Elders.

[LDS Watchman]

Sure, let's talk about that. I've had the missionaries over plenty of times and have never once in all my years in the church experienced what you just described. In fact, I just had the missionaries over at my house last night and they bore a simple but powerful testimony of Jesus Christ and extended our family with a genuine heart felt invitation that if followed will lead us closer to Him. I was grateful for their message.

No joke, the last two sets of missionaries role played with us in the exact way I mentioned and asked if they could come back to do the same. I told them no, but if they wanted to come back and share a scripture, or their testimony of Christ, I would love that. The set of missionaries before that shared a 20 minute chirstmas video, then asked us if we knew anyone who would like to watch the video. Again, I told them no. These are not those sent out with power for one last time. Those sent out one last time preaching with power arent going to need preach my gospel manuals to memorize and strict white hand books to keep them in check.

Were these Sister missionaries?

Nope. All Elders.

There is more to come and then you'll see the power you're looking for. But this doesn't change what the scriptures and teachings of Joseph Smith say about the servants being sent out to prune the vineyard for the last time beginning on 1830.

We're still in the preliminary stages of the final gathering and pruning right now. The scriptures speak of the weak and the simple preaching the Gospel to the ends of the earth. I believe this clearly refers to the full-time missionaries.

[Hosh]

No joke, the last two sets of missionaries role played with us in the exact way I mentioned and asked if they could come back to do the same. I told them no, but if they wanted to come back and share a scripture, or their testimony of Christ, I would love that. The set of missionaries before that shared a 20 minute chirstmas video, then asked us if we knew anyone who would like to watch the video. Again, I told them no. These are not those sent out with power for one last time. Those sent out one last time preaching with power arent going to need preach my gospel manuals to memorize and strict white hand books to keep them in check.

Were these Sister missionaries?

Nope. All Elders.

There is more to come and then you'll see the power you're looking for. But this doesn't change what the scriptures and teachings of Joseph Smith say about the servants being sent out to prune the vineyard for the last time beginning on 1830.

We're still in the preliminary stages of the final gathering and pruning right now. The scriptures speak of the weak and the simple preaching the Gospel to the ends of the earth. I believe this clearly refers to the full-time missionaries.

I can't pretend to know the exact meaning of what the scriptures say about the last days though I do believe I can see certain consistant patterns and I've come to certain conclusions because of those patterns. So when I read about servants preaching with power in the scriptures and compare them to the LDS missionary effort today, well, there really isn't any comparison
in my mind at all. That being said, I honestly feel that As long as our sights are on the Lord and seeking his Spirit and doing what we honestly believe He is telling us to do in all sincerety, I think we'll be alright. And as more and more starts to unfold here in the last days, we will probably both stand corrected in many points where we thought we were spot on.

[innocentoldguy]

Proof? No more than there is about Christianity in general. Evidence? Sure.

Perhaps evidence was a better word for me to use. So if you believe you have evidence, then please go right ahead and show me.

I'll allow you to show yourself.

1. Make a list of all churches that believe in Christ, claim to have direct authority from Christ, and perform saving ordinances by authority. It's a short list, so it shouldn't be hard.
2. Compare that list with biblical scriptures like 2 Thessalonians 2.
3. Make a list of all remaining churches who claim direct authority and align with what you find in the Bible.

I think this is what is called "deflection" and "evasion".

Either provide some evidence or don't make such claims.

Deflection or evasion would be to change the subject, which I didn't do. What I did do is called showing you how to learn for yourself.

[Thinker]

Leaving denominational churches, including the LDS one, to pursue a personal relationship with Jesus Christ is like receiving spiritual food, like the manna from Heaven, and washing it down with Living Water. Following Christ can be a lonely trek, because the way is narrow. Most of the churches are on broad paths that leads to destruction…

I agree!
Reminds me of a similar analogy:
Going to church is often like reading and studying a menu or recipe but never actually getting & eating the food.