Uchtdorf: God gave us masks. God gave us a vaccine.

[larsenb]

Read my use of "allow" vs. your "directing". There is a difference. I hope you understand the distinction.

Hold up, are you saying that the Lord is allowing them to be deceived? Can you go into further detail on what you mean by this? Like, for example, is Jesus hanging out with these guys and telling them they're doing a bang-up job but secretly he's cringing inside? Or, perhaps, not at all giving these men any sort of revelation on what to do, and letting them hang themselves with their own decisions?

I guess what I'm trying to say is: are they getting allllllllll the revelation a proper prophet of God should, except just not the stuff that counts? That sounds extremely nonsensical.

I doubt He's cringing much, but may be letting the rope out on this (covid and shots) and other issues, well knowing the end from the beginning. For instance, Pres. Benson was very adamant in testifying of a single high-level secret combination gaining power and influence in almost every country of the world during the time he gave his talk.

Have any of the Brethren that heard his talk or that have followed since then, taken his warnings seriously? I.e., have they followed through in acting on his warnings and admonitions regarding this issue? Doesn't appear so. Nothing that I'm aware of. So is it: follow the prophet . . . except Pres. Benson?

Do they get real promptings from the Spirit in guiding other activities and happenings in the Church having to do with callings, advising, blessings, temple work, etc., etc., I would think so. I hope so.

My basic position is that the Lord spent 2,600 years leading Lehi and company out of Jerusalem, and had them and their descendants laboriously and assiduously prepare writings of their history and experiences w/their religion, to include writings from the Jaredites, for our day. JS was chosen to restore missing elements of the 'primitive' church, and bring forth their writings in the form of the Book of Mormon (as well as from other prophets) and restore temple worship. The main organization that has and still is, spreading the Book of Mormon through the world is the LDS church. No other church is doing this. No other church is promulgating temple worship, whatever you think of recent changes.

I see D&C 1 as showing just how serious the Lord takes the restoration and the Book of Mormon, etc. It makes no logical sense to me that He would just let the church massively fail in it's mission. Therefore, he's allowing what is happening for His own purposes, of which, I can only guess and speculate about, which I've already done a bit in my previous posts.

[Chip]

...Why throw that all away over an inconvenience?

I was skimming posts and somehow read just this last sentence. I knew immediately that you must have written it.

[Chip]

Read my use of "allow" vs. your "directing". There is a difference. I hope you understand the distinction.

Hold up, are you saying that the Lord is allowing them to be deceived? Can you go into further detail on what you mean by this? Like, for example, is Jesus hanging out with these guys and telling them they're doing a bang-up job but secretly he's cringing inside? Or, perhaps, not at all giving these men any sort of revelation on what to do, and letting them hang themselves with their own decisions?

I guess what I'm trying to say is: are they getting allllllllll the revelation a proper prophet of God should, except just not the stuff that counts? That sounds extremely nonsensical.

I doubt He's cringing much, but may be letting the rope out on this (covid and shots) and other issues, well knowing the end from the beginning. For instance, Pres. Benson was very adamant in testifying of a single high-level secret combination gaining power and influence in almost every country of the world during the time he gave his talk.

Have any of the Brethren that heard his talk or that have followed since then, taken his warnings seriously? I.e., have they followed through in acting on his warnings and admonitions regarding this issue? Doesn't appear so. Nothing that I'm aware of. So is it: follow the prophet . . . except Pres. Benson?

Do they get real promptings from the Spirit in guiding other activities and happenings in the Church having to do with callings, advising, blessings, temple work, etc., etc., I would think so. I hope so.

My basic position is that the Lord spent 2,600 years leading Lehi and company out of Jerusalem, and had them and their descendants laboriously and assiduously prepare writings of their history and experiences w/their religion, to include writings from the Jaredites, for our day. JS was chosen to restore missing elements of the 'primitive' church, and bring forth their writings in the form of the Book of Mormon (as well as from other prophets) and restore temple worship. The main organization that has and still is, spreading the Book of Mormon through the world is the LDS church. No other church is doing this. No other church is promulgating temple worship, whatever you think of recent changes.

I see D&C 1 as showing just how serious the Lord takes the restoration and the Book of Mormon, etc. It makes no logical sense to me that He would just let the church massively fail in it's mission. Therefore, he's allowing what is happening for His own purposes, of which, I can only guess and speculate about, which I've already done a bit in my previous posts.

Agency is a real disruptor.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I see D&C 1 as showing just how serious the Lord takes the restoration and the Book of Mormon, etc. It makes no logical sense to me that He would just let the church massively fail in it's mission. Therefore, he's allowing what is happening for His own purposes, of which, I can only guess and speculate about, which I've already done a bit in my previous posts.

What better way to let a prideful organization crash and burn. This isn’t crazy talk. Prophets all throughout the BoM condemned the actions of the later-day gentile church. They were talking to us, and yes, they also grouped us into the gentile nation. Both Nephi and Christ prophesied that there would be a restoration, a period of tribulation, and THEN the work of the Father would “commence.” Search the word “commence in the BoM. The parallels and prophesies are quite profound and enlightening.

[Chip]

I still think God is allowing this for His own purposes, which could be multifaceted to include both good and bad (e.g., an element of punishment). The good could include allowing the situation in the church to develop in order to bring to pass a fundamental change, which might include the DS.

God allows everything, it's called agency. That doesn't mean God is in any way directing the church leaders to do what they are doing. I know some people like to come up with a scenario that eases their cognitive dissonance. Doesn't make it true.

Read my use of "allow" vs. your "directing". There is a difference. I hope you understand the distinction.

Hold up, are you saying that the Lord is allowing them to be deceived? Can you go into further detail on what you mean by this? Like, for example, is Jesus hanging out with these guys and telling them they're doing a bang-up job but secretly he's cringing inside? Or, perhaps, not at all giving these men any sort of revelation on what to do, and letting them hang themselves with their own decisions?

I guess what I'm trying to say is: are they getting allllllllll the revelation a proper prophet of God should, except just not the stuff that counts? That sounds extremely nonsensical.

We are dealing with generational idolatry here and false traditions of their fathers. This is almost impossible for some church members to shake. I wouldn't have believed it, was I not a Mormon, myself.

[Alexander]

Reported by an attendee of a “Special Stake Conference”, October 23, 2022 in Bangkok, Thailand.

Uchtdorf: “I wear my mask all the time. Sometimes I forget. Harriet says, ‘Wear your mask!.’ And she’s right. God gave us masks. God gave us a vaccine. God gave us technology so we could stay close to each other and close to the church during the pandemic”

uchtdorf-masks-vaccines.jpg

source

"Then shall the seers be ashamed, and the diviners confounded: yea, they shall all cover their lips"

[thaabit]

And brains.

Well...some of us.

[larsenb]

Read my use of "allow" vs. your "directing". There is a difference. I hope you understand the distinction.

Hold up, are you saying that the Lord is allowing them to be deceived? Can you go into further detail on what you mean by this? Like, for example, is Jesus hanging out with these guys and telling them they're doing a bang-up job but secretly he's cringing inside? Or, perhaps, not at all giving these men any sort of revelation on what to do, and letting them hang themselves with their own decisions?

I guess what I'm trying to say is: are they getting allllllllll the revelation a proper prophet of God should, except just not the stuff that counts? That sounds extremely nonsensical.

I doubt He's cringing much, but may be letting the rope out on this (covid and shots) and other issues, well knowing the end from the beginning. For instance, Pres. Benson was very adamant in testifying of a single high-level secret combination gaining power and influence in almost every country of the world during the time he gave his talk.

Have any of the Brethren that heard his talk or that have followed since then, taken his warnings seriously? I.e., have they followed through in acting on his warnings and admonitions regarding this issue? Doesn't appear so. Nothing that I'm aware of. So is it: follow the prophet . . . except Pres. Benson?

Do they get real promptings from the Spirit in guiding other activities and happenings in the Church having to do with callings, advising, blessings, temple work, etc., etc., I would think so. I hope so.

My basic position is that the Lord spent 2,600 years leading Lehi and company out of Jerusalem, and had them and their descendants laboriously and assiduously prepare writings of their history and experiences w/their religion, to include writings from the Jaredites, for our day. JS was chosen to restore missing elements of the 'primitive' church, and bring forth their writings in the form of the Book of Mormon (as well as from other prophets) and restore temple worship. The main organization that has and still is, spreading the Book of Mormon through the world is the LDS church. No other church is doing this. No other church is promulgating temple worship, whatever you think of recent changes.

I see D&C 1 as showing just how serious the Lord takes the restoration and the Book of Mormon, etc. It makes no logical sense to me that He would just let the church massively fail in it's mission. Therefore, he's allowing what is happening for His own purposes, of which, I can only guess and speculate about, which I've already done a bit in my previous posts.

Agency is a real disruptor.

Yup, especially if you decide not to pray fervently about a particularly important subject.

Though I'm partial to the 'free agency' usage.

[larsenb]

I see D&C 1 as showing just how serious the Lord takes the restoration and the Book of Mormon, etc. It makes no logical sense to me that He would just let the church massively fail in it's mission. Therefore, he's allowing what is happening for His own purposes, of which, I can only guess and speculate about, which I've already done a bit in my previous posts.

What better way to let a prideful organization crash and burn. . . . . .

Could very well be. But I guess we'll have to wait and see how total the crash and burn turns out.

[thaabit]

Reminds me of Kathy Hochul in New York:

https://youtu.be/NXaP76musWM

Hahah, what a load of cow manure.

gathering chips for wood, don't you remember?

[thaabit]

I don't know, might be a bad time to double-down on mrna, but maybe that's just me?

[InfoWarrior82]

Read my use of "allow" vs. your "directing". There is a difference. I hope you understand the distinction.

Hold up, are you saying that the Lord is allowing them to be deceived? Can you go into further detail on what you mean by this? Like, for example, is Jesus hanging out with these guys and telling them they're doing a bang-up job but secretly he's cringing inside? Or, perhaps, not at all giving these men any sort of revelation on what to do, and letting them hang themselves with their own decisions?

I guess what I'm trying to say is: are they getting allllllllll the revelation a proper prophet of God should, except just not the stuff that counts? That sounds extremely nonsensical.

I doubt He's cringing much, but may be letting the rope out on this (covid and shots) and other issues, well knowing the end from the beginning. For instance, Pres. Benson was very adamant in testifying of a single high-level secret combination gaining power and influence in almost every country of the world during the time he gave his talk.

Have any of the Brethren that heard his talk or that have followed since then, taken his warnings seriously? I.e., have they followed through in acting on his warnings and admonitions regarding this issue? Doesn't appear so. Nothing that I'm aware of. So is it: follow the prophet . . . except Pres. Benson?

Do they get real promptings from the Spirit in guiding other activities and happenings in the Church having to do with callings, advising, blessings, temple work, etc., etc., I would think so. I hope so.

My basic position is that the Lord spent 2,600 years leading Lehi and company out of Jerusalem, and had them and their descendants laboriously and assiduously prepare writings of their history and experiences w/their religion, to include writings from the Jaredites, for our day. JS was chosen to restore missing elements of the 'primitive' church, and bring forth their writings in the form of the Book of Mormon (as well as from other prophets) and restore temple worship. The main organization that has and still is, spreading the Book of Mormon through the world is the LDS church. No other church is doing this. No other church is promulgating temple worship, whatever you think of recent changes.

I see D&C 1 as showing just how serious the Lord takes the restoration and the Book of Mormon, etc. It makes no logical sense to me that He would just let the church massively fail in it's mission. Therefore, he's allowing what is happening for His own purposes, of which, I can only guess and speculate about, which I've already done a bit in my previous posts.

Yes, the Lord knows exactly what's going on and what's going to happen with His church. He knows the thoughts and hearts of the leaders of this church too. He will preserve His remnant on the Earth, because He said so in our scriptures. But first, there needs to be a setting in order the affairs of the church where many leaders have, unfortunately, put the church... well... out of order. (That's a nice way of saying they lead the church astray). And for these things, I do not believe the Lord is happy. However, He still loves these men and gives them personal inspiration and revelation for their own lives. But, nothing further than this. I don't believe our God would be open with revelation, with all sorts of important things, but at the same time withhold knowledge that would literally save people from being maimed and murdered at the hands of our enemies.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I see D&C 1 as showing just how serious the Lord takes the restoration and the Book of Mormon, etc. It makes no logical sense to me that He would just let the church massively fail in it's mission. Therefore, he's allowing what is happening for His own purposes, of which, I can only guess and speculate about, which I've already done a bit in my previous posts.

What better way to let a prideful organization crash and burn. . . . . .

Could very well be. But I guess we'll have to wait and see how total the crash and burn turns out.

There will definitely be some weeping and wailing. But I think the Lord will be allowing others to take the helm.

[larsenb]

. . . . . I don't believe our God would be open with revelation, with all sorts of important things, but at the same time withhold knowledge that would literally save people from being maimed and murdered at the hands of our enemies.

It's giving them the rope on these issues.

At the same time, you have very sincere and even valiant members whom the Lord is also mindful of. I don't see the Lord leaving them totally in the lurch on issues having to do with their faith and worship withing the organization of the Church.

[InfoWarrior82]

. . . . . I don't believe our God would be open with revelation, with all sorts of important things, but at the same time withhold knowledge that would literally save people from being maimed and murdered at the hands of our enemies.

It's giving them the rope on these issues.

At the same time, you have very sincere and even valiant members whom the Lord is also mindful of. I don't see the Lord leaving them totally in the lurch on issues having to do with their faith and worship withing the organization of the Church.

No rope for temple building, and building the Kingdom of God..... but all the rope they need to join with satan's church?

Interesting theory.

[TwochurchesOnly]

Reported by an attendee of a “Special Stake Conference”, October 23, 2022 in Bangkok, Thailand.

Uchtdorf: “I wear my mask all the time. Sometimes I forget. Harriet says, ‘Wear your mask!.’ And she’s right. God gave us masks. God gave us a vaccine. God gave us technology so we could stay close to each other and close to the church during the pandemic”

uchtdorf-masks-vaccines.jpg

source

[TwochurchesOnly]

Reminds me of Kathy Hochul in New York:

https://youtu.be/NXaP76musWM

Completely insane%#$'@!!

even for a year ago !!!

[BenMcCrea]

Remember - He’s a member of the Democratic Party. He has to say this. It’s their doctrine.

[larsenb]

. . . . . I don't believe our God would be open with revelation, with all sorts of important things, but at the same time withhold knowledge that would literally save people from being maimed and murdered at the hands of our enemies.

It's giving them the rope on these issues.

At the same time, you have very sincere and even valiant members whom the Lord is also mindful of. I don't see the Lord leaving them totally in the lurch on issues having to do with their faith and worship withing the organization of the Church.

No rope for temple building, and building the Kingdom of God..... but all the rope they need to join with satan's church?

Interesting theory.

Temple building and "building the Kingdom of God", per se, isn't in my theory. Temple going and not destroying the faith of faithful members who may not be up to speed on the covid/clot shot disaster, etc., is And the effort to 'spread the gospel' of the restoration and promulgate the Book of Mormon, etc., is, as well.

Plus honoring all the faith, sacrifice and good-works of current faithful members, and the many, many people from the past in the same category, is.

One could think of myriad ways the Lord may be using this scenario to bring about needed changes, and His purposes in general; ways that don't necessarily destroy the faith of the currently faithful who aren't up-to-speed on the things you or I know about.

[larsenb]

. . . . . . . No rope for temple building, and building the Kingdom of God..... but all the rope they need to join with satan's church?

Interesting theory.

Temple building and "building the Kingdom of God", per se, isn't in my theory. Temple going and not destroying the faith of faithful members who may not be up to speed on the covid/clot shot disaster, etc., is And the effort to 'spread the gospel' of the restoration and promulgate the Book of Mormon, etc., is, as well.

Plus honoring all the faith, sacrifice and good-works of current faithful members, and the many, many people from the past in the same category, is.

One could think of myriad ways the Lord may be using this scenario to bring about needed changes, and His purposes in general; ways that don't necessarily destroy the faith of the currently faithful who aren't up-to-speed on the things you or I know about.

One of these possibilities, is that if even one or two of the top leaders were to sincerely pray about what they have done, and received revelation they couldn't shut up about, this would bring it all out in the open with the hope of honest correction.

Another possibility, is that enough key members may be taken out by disasters/illness in a way that demands re-looking and revamping their methodologies and reconstituting their numbers. But this is more likely to happen in the midst of already developing disasters of one stripe or another; not because they allegedly took the clot shot, which is looking more like it may have been a saline solution.

And there are other possibilities. None of which would necessarily send most of the current faithful members out of the church and possibly out of exercising faith in a higher reality.

[tribrac]

God gave us masks. God gave us vaccines.

This frames a very interesting philosophical question. Everything man invents, creates, imagines...does it come from God?

Uctdorf attributes the Vax and mask to God. Does he also attribute the laboratory made virus to God?

Would he attribute radiation protection equipment to God as well as the nuclear warheads?

Does he attribute the internet to God, what about the gambling, gaming, porn, materialism, and surveillance that the internet enables?

Did God give us forever chemicals, Roundup, DDT?

I find it interesting to ponder, did God directly inspire all things under the sun, or did mankind do some things on their own accord? Or was there another dark inspirational force?

I seem to recall a quote that said something to the effect that God is offended when people fail to acknowledge His hand in things, but also offended when people attribute things to Him that He didn't do. Sounds like it might be important to distinguish between His goodness and the ill of others.

[InfoWarrior82]

Temple building and "building the Kingdom of God", per se, isn't in my theory.

Do you have a theory for it? Is that what the brethren are doing right now? Being led by the Lord to do so through direct revelation as they claim?

[Mamabear]

God gave us masks. God gave us vaccines.

This frames a very interesting philosophical question. Everything man invents, creates, imagines...does it come from God?

Uctdorf attributes the Vax and mask to God. Does he also attribute the laboratory made virus to God?

Would he attribute radiation protection equipment to God as well as the nuclear warheads?

Does he attribute the internet to God, what about the gambling, gaming, porn, materialism, and surveillance that the internet enables?

Did God give us forever chemicals, Roundup, DDT?

I find it interesting to ponder, did God directly inspire all things under the sun, or did mankind do some things on their own accord? Or was there another dark inspirational force?

I seem to recall a quote that said something to the effect that God is offended when people fail to acknowledge His hand in things, but also offended when people attribute things to Him that He didn't do. Sounds like it might be important to distinguish between His goodness and the I'll of others.

“God gave us masks. God gave us vaccines.”
Maybe they are talking about Lucifer, the “God of this world” as stated in the temple.

[larsenb]

Temple building and "building the Kingdom of God", per se, isn't in my theory.

Do you have a theory for it? Is that what the brethren are doing right now? Being led by the Lord to do so through direct revelation as they claim?

I just told you what my ideas on this are. I wouldn't really call it a theory; merely speculation for the reasons stated.

The Lord can "allow" what they are doing by simple non-intervention . . . . just allowing the rope to go out.

Once again, I believe it is important to avoid believing your assumptions are necessarily true. Its where you try to avoid assumptions or getting caught up in the implications of your assumptions that you think are true. Saves soooo much mental anguish.

It's probably my science background and profession that makes this so appealing to me; the multiple hypotheses thing; also encountered in the little pamphlet: The Five Agreements, one of which is to avoid making assumptions.

Too much of the time one's assumptions are driven by fear. Better just look at the evidence for what it directly tells you (e.g., did the Brethren push the mRNA shots and totally ignore outpatient prophylaxis treatments? Yes, they did, with very bad effects. Does this mean they were devoid of input from the Lord on this issue. It certainly seems that way, due to how their recommendations were promoting something very bad and essentially based on lies. This is evidence-based reasoning.

For the rest of the speculation one might indulge in (nothing wrong with speculating), any number of things could be come up with. But when you settle on your speculations as being true, especially those that are black-and-white generalizations, once or twice removed from the direct evidence, you cast yourself adrift into a sea you really don't have to sail in.

Just my point of view. You don't have to agree.

[Moroni104]

I got approved in facebook to see the post.

It is pictures of the event with someone (Ranger Jauregui) providing commentary.

It is not a video.

I would have really liked to see the video.

If there is a video somewhere, let me know.