No Big Bang

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SempiternalHarbinger
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Re: No Big Bang

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Four Revelations From the Webb Telescope About Distant Galaxies
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-02056-5

JWST’s First Glimpses of Early Galaxies Could Break Cosmology
https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... cosmology/

Perhaps the only falsifiable concept about the Lambda cold dark matter (LCDM) model anymore is the concept of galaxy evolution over time. It's one of the few places where "fudging the numbers" with the LCDM model becomes much more complicated than simply sprinkling in some additional amounts of magical forms of matter or energy.

From the first article:
Some early galaxies are surprisingly complex

Webb’s distant galaxies are also turning out to have more structure than astronomers had expected.

One study of Webb’s first deep-field image found a surprisingly large number of distant galaxies that are shaped like disks. Using Hubble, astronomers had concluded that distant galaxies are more irregularly shaped than nearby ones, which, like the Milky Way, often display regular forms such as disks. The theory was that early galaxies were more often distorted by interactions with neighbouring galaxies. But the Webb observations suggest there are up to ten times as many distant disk-shaped galaxies as previously thought.

With the resolution of James Webb, we are able to see that galaxies have disks way earlier than we thought they did,” says Allison Kirkpatrick, an astronomer at the University of Kansas in Lawrence. That’s a problem, she says, because it contradicts earlier theories of galaxy evolution. “We’re going to have to figure that out.”"
A "disk" shaped galaxy has to rotate a number of times before the disk itself forms in the LCMD model. Our galaxy is thought to rotate once every 200 million years. "Mature" galaxies like disk galaxies would need to rotate a number of times in order to form a disk shape.

DISCOVERY OF THE "WOLFE DISK" TESTS THE THEORY OF GALAXY FORMATION
https://www.inverse.com/science/wolfe-galactic-disk
Most galaxy formation models have shown that it would take approximately 6 billion years after the Big Bang for a galaxy disk to form.
The discovery of many "mature" disk-shaped galaxies so early in the universe *significantly* deviates from standard galaxy formation models. Keep in mind the LCMD model is off by at least an order of magnitude in terms of the number of disk-shaped galaxies expected to exist at these long distances. But wait, there's more...

First article again:
Another preprint manuscript suggests that massive galaxies formed earlier in the Universe than previously known. A team led by Ivo Labbé at the Swinburne University of Technology in Melbourne, Australia, reports finding seven massive galaxies in the CEERS field, with redshifts between 7 and 1010. “We infer that the central regions of at least some massive galaxies were already largely in place 500 million years after the Big Bang, and that massive galaxy formation began extremely early in the history of the Universe,” the scientists write.
So not only are early galaxies more "mature" than expected, and forming into disk shapes much earlier than galaxy formation models predict, the "size" of the distant galaxies seen in Webb images also defies their LCDM model. The LCDM model presumes that just after the "bang", just hydrogen atoms existed in space, then atoms started "clumping" together to form the first suns, and over time small galaxies formed, which collided with other small galaxies to produce larger ones. The mainstream timeline to form "massive" galaxies is much greater than what we're seeing in Webb images. But wait, there's even more trouble in LCMD paradise...
And studies of galactic chemistry also show a rich and complicated picture emerging from the Webb data. One analysis of the first deep-field image examined the light emitted by galaxies at a redshift of 5 or greater. (Spectral lines that appear at various wavelengths of light correlate with the chemical elements composing the galaxies.) It found a surprising richness of elements such as oxygen11. Astronomers had thought that the process of chemical enrichment — in which stars fuse hydrogen and helium to form heavier elements — took a while, but the finding that it is under way in early galaxies “will make us rethink the speed at which star formation occurs”, Kirkpatrick says.
The mainstream solar models also require time in order to form heavier elements, and their solar composition models are rather "stringent" in terms of composition and how early they expect significant amounts of heavier atoms to form in any real quantities. There's a bit of fudge factor here since they can make early suns "larger" which would burn out faster and produce heavier elements faster, but they have to fit all these things into their computer models, and such changes are simply "ad hoc" changes in the final analysis. They don't follow from their actual model.

So, already we're finding significant tension between LCDM galaxy and solar evolution models and what we actually observe in space in Webb images.

It's going to be a very bumpy ride for LCDM proponents over the next decade. Not much about their galaxy evolution concepts hold any weight and is theoretical garbage. No base in reality.

Additionally, given the JWST results so far, I'm shocked (shocked I tell you!) that NASA hasn't already pulled the graphics on their website that say the FIRST STARS formed at 300 to 400 million years after the Big Bang.

For example, this fancy timeline graphic says the 1st star appeared “about 400 million” years after the Big Bang It's displayed at multiple locations on the NASA websites ...
https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/infographics/t ... e-universe

Or this example that's on the first page of this webpage ( https://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/ ) which discusses WMAP results. Click the image and you go here ... (https://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/media/060915/index.html ) where you can download the image as a "media resource". And indeed, the media is still using it.

Another example, here's an article that was just published on October 20th: by *science communicator* Monisha Ravisetti. The article contains that graphic.
https://www.cnet.com/science/space/why- ... -big-deal/

The Chandra website shows another timeline: although it states the first stars are at about 300 million years (and galaxies at 1 billion years).
https://chandra.harvard.edu/xray_astro/ ... ndex5.html

The Hubble Website says pretty much the same thing … that stars appeared about 400 million years after the Big Bang.
https://cdn.spacetelescope.org/archives ... c0805c.jpg

And NASA is not the only space agency doing this. The European Space Agency (ESA) has this graphic that says the first stars formed "300 to 500 million years" after the Big Bang.
https://sci.esa.int/web/planck/-/55392- ... e-universe

https://cdn.sci.esa.int/documents/34222 ... 7216030508

This must be very confusing to *science communicators*, the public and especially future astronomers. Especially since back in 2009 Scientific American published an article titled "The First Stars in the Universe" which stated that "The first stars did not appear until perhaps 100 million years after the big bang".
https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... in-the-un/

Where did NASA and ESA go wrong ... to abandon an answer that was far closer to what JWST says and proclaim the first stars appear 200 to 300 million years later instead? It wasn't a lack of resources. They spent tens of BILLIONS of dollars to get a wrong answer. So how did it happen?

Might I suggest their gnome filled Big Bang model led them farther and farther away from the truth? Either way, the Big Bang never happened, unless that is you believe in creation out of nothing.

“It is a self-evident truth, which will not admit of argument, that nothing remains nothing. Nonentity is the negative of all existence. This negative possesses no property or element upon which the energies of creative power can operate.”-Parley P Pratt

Not only is the JWST disproving long-held beliefs and theories of the big bang but the two scientific crutches that it stands on (Redshift and Microwave Background ) have been disproven time and time again to be false, at least their interpretation thereof. I have posted extensively on these two topics including recently here... viewtopic.php?p=1312732#p1312732
Last edited by SempiternalHarbinger on October 26th, 2022, 10:35 am, edited 2 times in total.

Sunain
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Re: No Big Bang

Post by Sunain »

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Niemand
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Re: No Big Bang

Post by Niemand »

Bronco73idi wrote: September 8th, 2022, 3:06 pm There is no evidence that it did happen!
As I understand it, it's based initially on red shift and proceeds from there.

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Mindfields
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Re: No Big Bang

Post by Mindfields »

Well the scientists do have one advantage over the creationists. When the evidence doesn't support the the generally accepted theory the scientists will at least admit their error and then press on developing new theories in their quest to understand the universe. Can't say the same for the creationists.

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Niemand
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Re: No Big Bang

Post by Niemand »

Mindfields wrote: October 26th, 2022, 4:22 am Well the scientists do have one advantage over the creationists. When the evidence doesn't support the the generally accepted theory the scientists will at least admit their error and then press on developing new theories in their quest to understand the universe. Can't say the same for the creationists.
Creationists do modify their viewpoints sometimes, but the two groups have different anchor points, i.e. one lot wants to fix things on God and the other lot would sooner spit out their dummy* than admit God's existence.


* = pacifier?

moving2zion
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Re: No Big Bang

Post by moving2zion »

Whatever happened, happened so far in the past that we won't obtain the answer or full and complete understanding in this lifetime. So while folks try to push one side or the other I simply shrug it off and tell them to 'wait for the next big discovery'. They tend to cancel each other out.

Bronco73idi
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Re: No Big Bang

Post by Bronco73idi »

Niemand wrote: October 26th, 2022, 2:20 am
Bronco73idi wrote: September 8th, 2022, 3:06 pm There is no evidence that it did happen!
As I understand it, it's based initially on red shift and proceeds from there.
The first RF telescope was developed in 1937

Georges Lemaître Theorized the Big Bang in 1931

I call the Red shift reasoning BS

It was a fringe idea that the Beast ran with. You know the Beast that help the dragon, the same one that the whore (USA) rides on?

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Niemand
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Re: No Big Bang

Post by Niemand »

Bronco73idi wrote: October 26th, 2022, 9:53 pm
Niemand wrote: October 26th, 2022, 2:20 am
Bronco73idi wrote: September 8th, 2022, 3:06 pm There is no evidence that it did happen!
As I understand it, it's based initially on red shift and proceeds from there.
The first RF telescope was developed in 1937

Georges Lemaître Theorized the Big Bang in 1931

I call the Red shift reasoning BS

It was a fringe idea that the Beast ran with. You know the Beast that help the dragon, the same one that the whore (USA) rides on?
The whore appears to be the UN rather than the USA.

Bronco73idi
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Re: No Big Bang

Post by Bronco73idi »

Niemand wrote: October 27th, 2022, 3:10 am
Bronco73idi wrote: October 26th, 2022, 9:53 pm
Niemand wrote: October 26th, 2022, 2:20 am
Bronco73idi wrote: September 8th, 2022, 3:06 pm There is no evidence that it did happen!
As I understand it, it's based initially on red shift and proceeds from there.
The first RF telescope was developed in 1937

Georges Lemaître Theorized the Big Bang in 1931

I call the Red shift reasoning BS

It was a fringe idea that the Beast ran with. You know the Beast that help the dragon, the same one that the whore (USA) rides on?
The whore appears to be the UN rather than the USA.
Nope, beast with 2 horns = whore.

Rev:17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

The whore is a kingdom that buys and trades with the world. It makes the world rich and stays rich. Only one currency has truly fulfilled that, Rev 18:11-15

She is/was a Christian nation, Rev 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries (sorceries is a false translation of Greek word pharmakeia, Pharmaceutical is the proper word) were all nations deceived.

https://www.etymonline.com/word/pharmaceutical

The UN isn’t a kingdom. It will fall during the 2nd civil war that we, the United States will have.

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FrankOne
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Re: No Big Bang

Post by FrankOne »

science says

-big bang proven,
-big bang unproven
-vax good
-mo drugs the better
-trust your doctor
-white men evolved from african ancestors
--peak oil , be afraid
-global warming from CO2
-cows need diapers
-pyramids built by men pulling ropes

lots of good science out there and none of it matters.
"You think that's air you're breathing?" (morpheus)

larsenb
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Re: No Big Bang

Post by larsenb »

Bronco73idi wrote: September 8th, 2022, 3:06 pm
Durzan wrote: September 8th, 2022, 12:58 pm
darknesstolight wrote: September 8th, 2022, 7:46 am
Durzan wrote: September 8th, 2022, 7:22 am

Misleading clickbait to begin with.

A somewhat better source:
What makes your source better? What makes it misleading clickbait?

...
Because he’s clarifying the fact that “the Big Bang may not have happened” is false clickbait to begin with, among other things.
There is no evidence that it did happen!
There is a hypothesis/theory as to how the BB would proceed, if it did happen, and there has been evidence supporting elements of the described process. However, much of this evidence is being dismantled or shown to be flawed in significant ways.

Bronco73idi
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Posts: 3676

Re: No Big Bang

Post by Bronco73idi »

FrankOne wrote: October 27th, 2022, 12:51 pm science says

-big bang proven,
-big bang unproven
-vax good
-mo drugs the better
-trust your doctor
-white men evolved from african ancestors
--peak oil , be afraid
-global warming from CO2
-cows need diapers
-pyramids built by men pulling ropes

lots of good science out there and none of it matters.
"You think that's air you're breathing?" (morpheus)
Christians don’t like that Africans are a lot older then the white man 😂

I say it fits the Bible precisely.

larsenb
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Location: Between here and Standing Rock

Re: No Big Bang

Post by larsenb »

Durzan wrote: September 9th, 2022, 8:13 am
This implies Neil deGrasse Tyson is going to be spiritually homeless to some degree, now that he may be losing his "first cause".

larsenb
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Location: Between here and Standing Rock

Re: No Big Bang

Post by larsenb »

Niemand wrote: September 9th, 2022, 1:41 pm Fred Hoyle, one of the big proponents of the Steady State theory said that he felt the Big Bang resembled religious creation ideas.
Right, proponents of BB kind of regard it as a first cause. Very philosophically and even religiously satisfying, especially if you don't see God taking on that role.

I.e., with the BB, you can ascribe everything in reality to it, so can take it off your worry plate that dishes out questions such as: "Why is there anything? Where did it all begin, etc., etc.

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SempiternalHarbinger
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Re: No Big Bang

Post by SempiternalHarbinger »

Mindfields wrote: October 26th, 2022, 4:22 am Well the scientists do have one advantage over the creationists. When the evidence doesn't support the the generally accepted theory the scientists will at least admit their error and then press on developing new theories in their quest to understand the universe. Can't say the same for the creationists.
Completely disagree. If mainstream theoretical science were to ever actually admitted their errors, their continuously failed predictions on a regular basis and was actually willing to correct their course we would be so far away from big bang cosmology, General Relativity, Evolution, and Quantum physics, etc., that all these bogus wild imaginations wouldn't even be in the rearview mirror today. But that is not the case and these theories have never been stronger which is imperative to the scientific establishment to continue the funneling of tens of billions of dollars yearly. Not a single thing we observe (or when the data comes in) on the so-called thermonuclear sun has been predicted nor fits into their precious model yet the mainstream thermonuclear sun is as strong as ever. They never correct course and are masters of simply moving the goalpost and creating new invisible substances so the train continues right on. In other words, if mainstream theoretical science were to actually correct its course on a plethora of blatant falsehoods and errors we would never have such black, invisible, theoretical substances/theories such as...

Big Bang Cosmology
General Relativity, Newtonian Science,
Expanding Universe
Invisible Dark Energy
Invisible Dark Matter
Invisible Black Holes
Galaxy Formations
Thermonuclear Sun
Planet Formation
Planet Stability
Protoplanetary Disk
Neutron Stars
Nebula Theory
Asteroids
Dirty snowball comet
Isolated Heliosphere
Uniformitarianism
Redshift
Exploding Stars (Supernova theory)
Radiocarbon dating (It would sure be nice to have a method of absolute dating that was reasonably reliable and accurate but that is simply not the case. Radiocarbon dating and other radiometric dating techniques give an illusion of mathematical precision which is not justified. The assumption of constant rates of decay under any condition (for radiometric dating) and the assumption of reasonably constant carbon levels (for C 14 dating) in the past would not apply under dynamic and catastrophic conditions involving massive electrical discharges, floods, volcanic eruptions, etc. The fact that C14 dating needs to be "calibrated" is a tip-off that all is not well in the theoretical mathematical world.)

I could go on and on. When they do admit that all is not well, they just get a few well-paid theoretical mathematicians to correct the course and all the blatant errors are all but forgotten. This is exactly why we have all the listed above. But I must say that in no way am I defending creationists. They both (creationist and mainstream theoretical science) ignore facts like a plague. But theoretical science is by far and away the worst of the two and money proves this beyond a shadow of a doubt.

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