This forum has failed miserably

[Silver Pie]

It seems to me that you were Spirit before your current moniker.

correct.
and before that, I was I AM
But before that - I was Isaiah

Wow! I remember you as Isaiah. It seems you shared a file with me way back when - and I think I still have it on my Google Drive.
I had no idea those previous incarnations were kicked off (or, if I did, I've totally forgotten it).



I would not say this forum has failed miserably, though. Its claim is to be a place where LDS people can freely speak about things unique to LDS who love freedom.

As far as coming to Christ, that's a matter for each individual, and may not be able to be judged by reading a person's posts.

But I will tell you that my life was changed drastically by being a part of the Heavenly Gift forum. I met people there who I later met in real life, some of who are still in-real-life friends. I lapped up the spiritual discussions until it got so many new people that the conversations seemed less uplifting. It changed my whole trajectory, my physical life (where I lived and live) as well as my spiritual life (my eyes were opened like never before).

The first eye-opener was a thread on tithing, where a member from - I think it may have been the Netherlands - explained how it was impossible for him to pay 10% tithing because of the huge amount of money taken out for taxes.

My latest spiritual opening or uplift was probably a few days ago, but God doesn't just use this forum to draw me closer to him. Scriptures, prayer, rough times - all of that draws me closer to him, moreso than any online forum could do.


And since you have been here so long, surely you've noticed the pattern of the forum. It goes up and down. It's in constant flux, reflecting the voices of those who choose to post - and choose to argue or not argue - and the topics change in accordance with what is happening in people's lives - and that was strongly reflected during the last 3 years of insanity out there in society.

[cab]

why ?

before I tell you - at least why I think it has -
your comments will most likely prove why.

Tell me what you think.
why it has - hasn't, or why I would even say this.

The church has failed. And the sooner we come to realize it and repent and return to God the better.

[Silver Pie]

That is quite an ambition to get everyone to put Christ first. I would not bet that was the reason Brian started the forum. Unless it was the forum's mission, it could not have failed. Maybe that was your goal for the forum. Then in your mind, the forum failed to reach your mission for it.

I quite agree.

Wow, that's a pretty bold claim. I think you've missed the point of many of the posts on here. I would think that the majority of the doctrinal posts on here attempt to define what Christ actually said himself, or what He spoke to one of His servants, or what a church leader supposedly said the Lord told them.

Yes. What I see on here is a searching for Christ, to find out what Christ wants the person posting to do and be whether they are tbm or have discarded the corporate Church and gone after Christ alone. Yes, there are disagreements, and going round and round uselessly, and there are people hellbent on saying "Screw you," to logic, but the people on here are human. We are not without imperfections. How can we be anything else in our present state?

[BeNotDeceived]

why ?

before I tell you - at least why I think it has -
your comments will most likely prove why.

Tell me what you think.
why it has - hasn't, or why I would even say this.

The church has failed. And the sooner we come to realize it and repent and return to God the better.

Little progress has been made although most recognize the prevalence of deception.

[ransomme]

why ?

before I tell you - at least why I think it has -
your comments will most likely prove why.

Tell me what you think.
why it has - hasn't, or why I would even say this.

The church has failed. And the sooner we come to realize it and repent and return to God the better.

I think this is what many on the "TBM" leaning side don't acknowledge or understand is that the "disagreeable" members are not trying to take down the Church per se, rather their motivation is to try to be a better servant, and seek the face of the Lord. But it's true done are probably just cranky lol.

[Reluctant Watchman]

...and there are people hellbent on saying "Screw you," to logic, but the people on here are human.

Haha... I'm pretty sure I've used at least one of those words a few times in the past week or so. I'm not sure if they were used to defend the lack fo logic, but I am guilty as charged.

[The Red Pill]

Putting Christ first in our lives is an admirable goal and objective. However, it is an extremely personal thing. It is also all but impossible to do on a forum one comments on. It's human nature in quite a few people to be sickening sweet if they feel that's the way to score brownie points.

Think of all the fake people in church. They have ALWAYS been a part of it, they always will. They speak and act differently once in a building...FAKE.

I for one am sick of fake. That's what I like about this forum. I love to see Fred just tell it how he sees it...and others as well. It is SO refreshing to see people express themselves without self censorship and a bunch of self imposed filters.

I don't want a bunch of people running what they intend to say through a bunch of filters and carefully choosing every word and tone...I can get that at church on any Sunday.

[Silver Pie]

...and there are people hellbent on saying "Screw you," to logic, but the people on here are human.

Haha... I'm pretty sure I've used at least one of those words a few times in the past week or so. I'm not sure if they were used to defend the lack fo logic, but I am guilty as charged.

I was actually not thinking of you. Your comments seem well thought out. I was thinking of those so blind that they cannot see what is in front of their faces ("Nobody believes the prophet can't lead us astray," even while they've been saying that very thing).

[farmerchick]

One persons perception of failure can be seen by another person as an opportunity.

[Fred]

One persons perception of failure can be seen by another person as an opportunity.

Here is what the forum did for me today. Today I learned that the Holy Ghost does not leave me when I make a mistake. I was always taught that if I did wrong, the Holy Ghost went home or wherever He goes. Today, I read a post that made me realize just how ridiculous that is. I don't have any idea how many times I have went to church, but that was never taught on a day when I attended. Without this forum, I would still be in the dark.

This same thing has happened many times with different topics over the time I have been reading the forum.

I believe that Brian will be blessed for creating this forum, if he hasn't already.

How many people learn something every day? Probably more than that hear the same old thing repeated over and over.

[farmerchick]

One persons perception of failure can be seen by another person as an opportunity.

Here is what the forum did for me today. Today I learned that the Holy Ghost does not leave me when I make a mistake. I was always taught that if I did wrong, the Holy Ghost went home or wherever He goes. Today, I read a post that made me realize just how ridiculous that is. I don't have any idea how many times I have went to church, but that was never taught on a day when I attended. Without this forum, I would still be in the dark.

This same thing has happened many times with different topics over the time I have been reading the forum.

I believe that Brian will be blessed for creating this forum, if he hasn't already.

How many people learn something every day? Probably more than that hear the same old thing repeated over and over.

I'm glad you learned something...sometimes I think I must belong to a different church than some of you...i didn't grow up in Utah....I'm two generations away from the park city area....where water freezes midstream in the winter...lol...at least thats what they said...lol...there are definitely some different ideas out there from what I was taught and no one ever told me the holy ghost would go home if I did wrong...lol...maybe they didn't know...lol....or maybe the saints who migrated to the seattle area were Jack Mormons who didn't know any better...mingled with the converts who knew less...so none of that chewed gum philosophy made its way into my upbringing...lol....i do know the more righteous parts of my family stayed in the valley when my ancestors ran away to park city area....and then my branch of the family ran further to the pnw.....lol....I think the forum is an awesome attempt to allow anyone to say anything....I think it' is an opportunity to see other viewpoints, ponder, study it out and more completely form opinions and beliefs....it also helps me see what others are thinking in their innermost selves about church policies and events in real time. As far as bringing me to Christ.....i don't need the forum for that...I mean it's ok if it does...and it does sometimes.....I hope I'm already on that path and I try to encompass all parts of my real life into being a disciple.....maybe sometimes people get confused and believe the forum is real life.......i mean most of us don't live in our parents basement and just type out religious opinions all day...lol...well maybe some do but thats not the reality for the majority of us who are trying and failing to be like Jesus while we live our lives......soooo VIVA LA lds freedomforum....lol

[Niemand]

the people on here are human.

There is some argument about that in a couple of cases. Ontario definitely seems to have been a bot. I won't name other possible examples.

[SPIRIT]

This forum has been GREAT !
I guess mostly because - for me - it's given me a place - where I could speak my mind - freely -
(like the name of this forum says - LDS FREEDOM FORUM )
to speak out - allowing me to be able to give my opinion - (whatever that may be)
on anything about the church - on any topic about the gospel;
having not really being able to do that in church, without being looked at strange,
and frowned upon, and looked down on, or worse.

A place where I could share my knowledge about the scriptures -
about the truths I've learned in them over the years - the things the Lord has shown me -
specifically- about the warnings to us as Gentiles - like in The Book of Mormon and in Isaiah.
I truly believe - that this is what the Lord has wanted me to do -
and that I have served here in this forum in this capacity;
and many here have expressed their appreciation to me for that.
( I wouldn't of have spent the hundreds of hours I have here - trying to bring to light -
what I believe to be the truth - the real truth about what the scriptures are really saying -
the truth about the church, and how it's fallen into apostasy, and the truth about
just what's really going on in the World - that so many have been deceived about,
if I didn't think that it wouldn't of helped some to see the truth, and what's really going on,
and that it's what the Lord has wanted me to do).

So this forum, has been a BIG PART - of my spiritual life - learning and sharing the things I've learned;
and I'm proud to say that I've been a part of it.

Thank you

SPIRIT
(Being There, I AM, Isaiah)

[FrankOne]

One persons perception of failure can be seen by another person as an opportunity.

Here is what the forum did for me today. Today I learned that the Holy Ghost does not leave me when I make a mistake. I was always taught that if I did wrong, the Holy Ghost went home or wherever He goes. Today, I read a post that made me realize just how ridiculous that is. I don't have any idea how many times I have went to church, but that was never taught on a day when I attended. Without this forum, I would still be in the dark.

This same thing has happened many times with different topics over the time I have been reading the forum.

I believe that Brian will be blessed for creating this forum, if he hasn't already.

How many people learn something every day? Probably more than that hear the same old thing repeated over and over.

A thumbs up wasn't enough for this comment.

These past few years, I have been astonished how the HG is always there and manifests to me in the most unexpected moments. These moments are the most humbling that I've ever experienced. To know that God is always with us despite our childish ways and stubborn moments. (when we err). It is a certainty that the most 'real' blockade between us and God is when we are sure that we've screwed up so much that he won't help us. The guilt and fear that is imposed by the 'modern' church is wrong because it does more harm than good. Sure, it helps to motivate people to do better, but the manner in which these principles are taught maintains a dark shroud over the plan of salvation.

To go on my mission, I was instructed to read "The Miracle of Forgiveness" as a part of my penance. (I was an imperfect young man). I read about three quarters of it and concluded that it was not of Christ. Yes, that is my perspective and to others, they may find it perfect for what they needed. For me, the contradictions were glaring. The book heaps guilt upon the reader for sins of commission and omission and then throws out the possibility of forgiveness as if it's nearly unachievable.

It took me 15 yrs to figure that all out and it was thanks to God, not church 'leaders' ,that I was given the understanding of sin and forgiveness.

God is ALWAYS there. ALWAYS. ALWAYS. I can't repeat this enough times. He appears gone because we build walls. NOT walls of 'sin'. Walls of guilt.

[Jonesy]

One persons perception of failure can be seen by another person as an opportunity.

Here is what the forum did for me today. Today I learned that the Holy Ghost does not leave me when I make a mistake. I was always taught that if I did wrong, the Holy Ghost went home or wherever He goes. Today, I read a post that made me realize just how ridiculous that is. I don't have any idea how many times I have went to church, but that was never taught on a day when I attended. Without this forum, I would still be in the dark.

This same thing has happened many times with different topics over the time I have been reading the forum.

I believe that Brian will be blessed for creating this forum, if he hasn't already.

How many people learn something every day? Probably more than that hear the same old thing repeated over and over.

A thumbs up wasn't enough for this comment.

These past few years, I have been astonished how the HG is always there and manifests to me in the most unexpected moments. These moments are the most humbling that I've ever experienced. To know that God is always with us despite our childish ways and stubborn moments. (when we err). It is a certainty that the most 'real' blockade between us and God is when we are sure that we've screwed up so much that he won't help us. The guilt and fear that is imposed by the 'modern' church is wrong because it does more harm than good. Sure, it helps to motivate people to do better, but the manner in which these principles are taught maintains a dark shroud over the plan of salvation.

To go on my mission, I was instructed to read "The Miracle of Forgiveness" as a part of my penance. (I was an imperfect young man). I read about three quarters of it and concluded that it was not of Christ. Yes, that is my perspective and to others, they may find it perfect for what they needed. For me, the contradictions were glaring. The book heaps guilt upon the reader for sins of commission and omission and then throws out the possibility of forgiveness as if it's nearly unachievable.

It took me 15 yrs to figure that all out and it was thanks to God, not church 'leaders' ,that I was given the understanding of sin and forgiveness.

God is ALWAYS there. ALWAYS. ALWAYS. I can't repeat this enough times. He appears gone because we build walls. NOT walls of 'sin'. Walls of guilt.

I’m learning the same. My understanding of our conscience is that it’s tied into our experience and knowledge; so, if we learn things that are actually wrong, it’s a faith killer. We should heed our conscience and be hot or cold about it so that God can correct us if needs be (like Rev. 3). Then when he drops knowledge on us, we’ll have zeal with knowledge until we get to our next progression. It’s a pretty humbling process.