Modern Day Apostles & Prophets viewing Christ

[Chris]

I have heard over and over on this site, how fallen the church is and no leaders are inspired or know anything to do with God and that they dont perform miracles etc. etc......

I DONT believe that. I Believe they are inspired and the Lord leads and guides them.


Here are a few apostles talking about seeing Christ and also some other special and spiritual expereinces. Some that are even current apostles.

ENJOY

Here are just a few ------

President Wilford Woodruff
At the dedication of the Salt Lake Temple in April of 1893, Woodruff stated, "Our Savior had appeard unto [me] in the East Room in the Holy of Holies, & told [me] that He had accepted of the Temple & of the dedication services, & that the Lord forgave us His Saints who had assisted in any manner towards the erection and completion of the Temple."[1]

President Lorenzo Snow
This is a more-well known account, which occurred in the House of the Lord at Salt Lake City immediately after the death of Woodruff. President Snow said that "the Lord Jesus Christ appeared to me at the time of the death of President Woodruff. He instructed me to go right ahead and reorganize the First Presidency of the Church at once and not wait as had been done after the death of the previous presidents."[2]

President George Q. Cannon
This experience also occurred during the almost month-long dedication of the House of the Lord in 1893. President Cannon said, "My mind has been rapt in vision and have saw [sic] the beaties and Glory of God. I have saw [sic] and conversed with the Savior face to face."[3]

Elder Orson F. Whitney
“One night I dreamed … that I was in the Garden of Gethsemane, a witness of the Savior’s agony. … I stood behind a tree in the foreground. … Jesus, with Peter, James, and John, came through a little wicket gate at my right. Leaving the three Apostles there, after telling them to kneel and pray, He passed over to the other side, where He also knelt and prayed … : ‘Oh my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless not as I will but as Thou wilt.’

Gethsemane“As He prayed the tears streamed down His face, which was [turned] toward me. I was so moved at the sight that I wept also, out of pure sympathy with His great sorrow. My whole heart went out to Him. I loved Him with all my soul and longed to be with Him as I longed for nothing else.

“Presently He arose and walked to where those Apostles were kneeling—fast asleep! He shook them gently, awoke them, and in a tone of tender reproach, untinctured by the least show of anger or scolding, asked them if they could not watch with Him one hour. …

“Returning to His place, He prayed again and then went back and found them again sleeping. Again He awoke them, admonished them, and returned and prayed as before. Three times this happened, until I was perfectly familiar with His appearance—face, form, and movements. He was of noble stature and of majestic mien … the very God that He was and is, yet as meek and lowly as a little child.

“All at once the circumstance seemed to change. … Instead of before, it was after the Crucifixion, and the Savior, with those three Apostles, now stood together in a group at my left. They were about to depart and ascend into heaven. I could endure it no longer. I ran from behind the tree, fell at His feet, clasped Him around the knees, and begged Him to take me with Him.

“I shall never forget the kind and gentle manner in which He stooped and raised me up and embraced me. It was so vivid, so real that I felt the very warmth of His bosom against which I rested. Then He said: ‘No, my son; these have finished their work, and they may go with me; but you must stay and finish yours.’ Still I clung to Him. Gazing up into His face—for He was taller than I—I besought Him most earnestly: ‘Well, promise me that I will come to You at the last.’ He smiled sweetly and tenderly and replied: ‘That will depend entirely upon yourself.’ I awoke with a sob in my throat, and it was morning.”

Elder Melvin J. Ballard
Elder Melvin J. Ballard was ordained an Apostle in 1919, serving until 1939. Incidentally, he is the grandfather and namesake of current LDS Apostle M. Russell Ballard. Elder Melvin Ballard had this vision while he was a Mission President in Portland, Oregon, shortly before his ordination to the Apostleship. He remembered, "'I saw, seated on a raised platform, the most glorious Being my eyes have ever beheld or that I ever conceived existed in all the eternal worlds. As I approached to be introduced, He arose and stepped towards me with extended arms, and He smiled as He softly spoke my name. If I shall live to be a million years old, I shall never forget that smile. He took me into his arms and kissed me, pressed me to His bosom, and blessed me, until the marrow of my bones seemed to melt! When He had finished, I fell at His feet, and, as I bathed them with my tears and kisses, I saw the prints of the nails in the feet of the Redeemer of the world. The feeling that I had in the presence of Him who hath all things in His hands, to have His love, His affection, and His blessing was such that if I ever can receive that of which I had but a foretaste, I would give all that I am, all that I ever hope to be, to feel what I then felt!' (quoted by Bryant S. Hinckley, in Sermons and Missionary Service of Melvin J. Ballard [1949], 156)."

Elder David B. Haight
This is the most recent, given in a 1989 General Conference talk, wherein the Apostle recollected his comatose-induced vision he had after a heart attack. Elder Haight said, "I was shown a panoramic view of His earthly ministry: His baptism, His teaching, His healing the sick and lame, the mock trial, His crucifixion, His resurrection and ascension. There followed scenes of His earthly ministry to my mind in impressive detail, confirming scriptural eyewitness accounts. . . . I was given, by the gift and power of the Holy Ghost, a more perfect knowledge of His mission. . . . I cannot begin to convey to you the deep impact that these scenes have confirmed upon my soul."

I hope this information is helpful in helping you understand the true meaning of what it means to be an Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ.

"In conclusion, please be assured that senior Church leaders who preside over the divinely appointed purposes of the Church receive divine assistance. This guidance comes from the Spirit and sometimes directly from the Savior. Both kinds of spiritual guidance are given. I am grateful to have received such assistance."

- Elder Quentin L. Cook

"We do not talk of those sacred interviews that qualify the servants of the Lord to bear a special witness of Him, for we have been commanded not to do so. But we are free, indeed, we are obliged, to bear that special witness."

"I declare to you that I know that Jesus is the Christ. I know that He lives. He was born in the meridian of time. He taught His gospel, was tried, was crucified. He rose on the third day. He was the first fruits of the resurrection. He has a body of flesh and bone. Of this I bear testimony. Of Him I am a witness.”

-Elder Boyd K. Packer

"Why don’t our talks in general conference and local meetings say more about the miracles we have seen? Most of the miracles we experience are not to be shared. Consistent with the teachings of the scriptures, we hold them sacred and share them only when the Spirit prompts us to do so…In bearing testimonies and in our public addresses we rarely mention our most miraculous experiences, and we rarely rely on signs that the gospel is true. We usually just affirm our testimony of the truthfulness of the restored gospel and give few details on how we obtained it."

-Dallin H Oaks

"I don’t know just how to answer people when they ask the question, ‘Have you seen the Lord?’ I think that the witness that I have and the witness that each of us [apostles] has, and the details of how it came, are too sacred to tell. I have never told anybody some of the experiences I have had, not even my wife. I know that God lives. I not only know that he lives, but I know him."

-Marion G. Romney

"Our Savior had appeard unto [me] in the East Room in the Holy of Holies, & told [me] that He had accepted of the Temple & of the dedication services, & that the Lord forgave us His Saints who had assisted in any manner towards the erection and completion of the Temple."

-Wilford Woodruff

"I know that Jesus lives; for I have seen Him."

-George Q. Cannon

"I know that God lives. I know that Jesus Christ lives,” said John Taylor, my predecessor, “for I have seen him.” I bear this testimony to you brethren in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen."

PResident Packer
In the April 2014 General Conference Boyd K Packer said, "'And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he lives! For we saw him'(D&C 76:22–23).Their words are my words."

President Faust- ( speaks of the 2nd comforter )
https://youtu.be/VgxandXWbUk

President Heber J Grant-
Heber J. Grant shared a vision he had while riding in through the Utah desert:

Heber J. Grant
Heber J. Grant 1856-1945
There are two spirits striving with us always, one telling us to continue our labor for good, and one telling us that with the faults and failings of our nature we are unworthy. I can truthfully say that from October, 1882, until February, 1883, that spirit followed me day and night telling me that I was unworthy to be an Apostle of the Church, and that I ought to resign. When I would testify of my knowledge that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God, the Redeemer of mankind, it seemed as though a voice would say to me: “You lie! You lie! You have never seen Him.”

While on the Navajo Indian reservation with Brigham Young, Jr., and a number of others, six or eight, on horseback, and several others in “white tops”—riding along with Lot Smith at the rear of that procession, suddenly the road veered to the left almost straight, but there was a well beaten path leading ahead. I said: “Stop, Lot, stop. Where does this trail lead? There are plenty of foot marks and plenty of horses’ hoof marks here.” He said, “It leads to an immense gulley just a short distance ahead, that it is impossible to cross with a wagon. We have made a regular ‘Muleshoe’ of miles here to get on the other side of the gulley.”

I had visited the day before the spot where a Navajo Indian had asked George A. Smith, Jr., to let him look at his pistol. George A. handed it to him, and the Navajo shot him.

I said, “Lot, is there any danger from Indians?”

“None at all.”

“I want to be all alone. Go ahead and follow the crowd.” I first asked him if I allowed the animal I was riding to walk if I would reach the road on the other side of the gulley before the horsemen and the wagons, and he said, “Yes.”

As I was riding along to meet them on the other side I seemed to see, and I seemed to hear, what to me is one of the most real things in all my life, I seemed to see a Council in Heaven. I seemed to hear the words that were spoken. I listened to the discussion with a great deal of interest. The First Presidency and the Council of the Twelve Apostles had not been able to agree on two men to fill the vacancies in the Quorum of the Twelve. There had been a vacancy of one for two years, and a vacancy of two for one year, and the Conference had adjourned without the vacancies being filled. In this Council the Savior was present, my father was there, and the Prophet Joseph Smith was there. They discussed the question that a mistake had been made in not filling those two vacancies and that in all probability it would be another six months before the Quorum would be completed, and they discussed as to whom they wanted to occupy those positions, and decided that the way to remedy the mistake that had been made in not filling these vacancies was to send a revelation. It was given to me that I had done nothing to entitle me to that exalted position, except that I had lived a clean, sweet life. It was given to me that because of my father having practically sacrificed his life in what was known as the great Reformation, so to speak, of the people in early days, having been practically a martyr, that the Prophet Joseph and my father desired me to have that position, and it was because of their faithful labors that I was called, and not because of anything I had done of myself or any great thing that I had accomplished. It was also given to me that that was all these men, the Prophet and my father, could do for me; from that day it depended upon me and upon me alone as to whether I made a success of my life or a failure. . . .


And a fantastic talk on MIRACLES by one of my favorite Apostles Matthew Cowley
https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/matthew-cowley/miracles/

[Luke]

There’s a bit of a difference.

I believe that Wilford, George Q., Lorenzo, etc. saw him. And they bore plain witness. Said it clearly. “I saw Jesus”.

Now such “testimonies” are hidden behind deceptive language designed to leave you in awe but not entirely sure what they’re bearing witness to.

[endlessQuestions]

Good thread, Chris. Thanks for compiling all those experiences into one spot.

[Chris]

There’s a bit of a difference.

I believe that Wilford, George Q., Lorenzo, etc. saw him. And they bore plain witness. Said it clearly. “I saw Jesus”.

Now such “testimonies” are hidden behind deceptive language designed to leave you in awe but not entirely sure what they’re bearing witness to.

I can see how some may feel that. However they should also not cast their pearls before swine. Usually now days in smaller more initmate groups they will share some things that are more sacred. Temple dedications, stake conferences etc. This is just a very small list i put together, i could have added many more.

Elder Renlund shared i think in last conference about how the savior appeared to his dad before his dad passed to comfort him. There are more sacred expereinces being shared. President Eyring has shared some very sacred expereinces in conference...... They do share, but they are careful as they should be.

They are out there they just arent in your face with it. If they were then people would be complaining about that as well.

I have seen with my own eyes miracles with the brethren i have also had some very special spiritual experieces. I know the Lord is at the helm of this church, The church is just now being faced with some TEST, some will pass and some will sadly fail...... But their is joy in the journey.

[BuriedTartaria]

I respect your opinion even if it isn't my opinion. My dad views things the way you do.

[InfoWarrior82]

Why was Wilford woodruff the last church president to write down the literal words of the Savior?

And whenever any one of you receives the word of the Lord, let it be written and presented in your councils and whatever by united consent you deem wisdom to be presented unto the people, let it be presented by the President, my servant John Taylor, as the word of the Lord. In this way you will uphold him and strengthen his hands, as all the burden should not lie upon one man

[Reluctant Watchman]

I honestly don’t care what they saw, they teach truths and falsehoods from the same pulpit. And they most certainly don’t teach us today to receive the Second Anointing.

[Chris]

I respect your opinion even if it isn't my opinion. My dad views things the way you do.

Your dad is a wise man. The lord guides the church and the brethren. The lord loves to try our faith and there are a lot of those trials now, but it is all true. I know it, i have been blessed with the very spiritual experience this thread is about and it happened only because of my diligence to keeping my covenants, and being active in the church and doing as asked and serving in the church. The church is the means by which the lord redeems and guides his children home.

[briznian]

… i have been blessed with the very spiritual experience this thread is about and it happened only because of my diligence to keeping my covenants, and being active in the church and doing as asked and serving in the church. The church is the means by which the lord redeems and guides his children home.

At the opening of the New Testament Anna and Simeon were diligent in keeping all of the commandments and the law as they understood them. Because of that they were blessed with seeing the infant Savior. However, that did NOT mean that their church as it was constituted in their was true. In fact it was destined to be replaced despite their diligence.

[LDS Watchman]

I honestly don’t care what they saw, they teach truths and falsehoods from the same pulpit.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you believe pretty much the same thing about Joseph Smith and the prophets in the scriptures?

[hedgehog]

Having been here off and on for over a decade, the place has changed drastically, and not for the better. Personally I like the way our church has handled discussion of heavenly communions. They don't punish people for discussing it but also they do not bring it up lightly. I have my own spiritual witnesses and do not need to piggyback off prophets personal experiences that do not pertain to our job in the Kingdom. This is how anyone with sacred experiences naturally feels. To share them feels like setting up a webcam in your home and letting strangers into your sacred home. I myself have felt close to receiving a personal manifestation several times but each time felt I was not yet ready. I greatly look forward to that event and already consider it among the most precious moments of my life.

Judas was an apostle who walked and talked and kissed the savior. All previous iterations of the Kingdom collapsed into apostasy. First slowly and then all at once. Sane members accept that Prophets are people and matters of the kingdom can get messy. Church office building is not our salvation. And even apostles can go bad. We should hold to the gospel and not get to caught up in the personality or background of each prophet. Studying church history i always found it odd how those who knew Joseph Smith would go from his zealous supporter to zealous enemy and sometimes back often over seemingly small personal matters. This forum has been very enlightening to me as to how the human ego interferes and makes such drama inevitable. Don't get me wrong, I am not immune to ego drama at work, but as there should be zero money or status involved, I am in a different mindset at church. Apparently this simple lesson I learned from my parents is not commonly learned. Thanks Dad!

Must of us have found a content spot, between the extremes of "these prophets are evil imposters" and "every word a prophet speaks or tweets is now Gospel truth." Crazies' are always attracted to religion and like in any organization they are the loudest. The internet makes this a bit harder, I guarantee if you saw the home and a current picture of most of these people here your brain would properly notice a large number of red flags of mental illness that are not so clearly conveyed through snippets of text.

There are a few powerful undercurrents I have noticed. First, the age old truth, of "they can leave the church but they cant leave it alone" applies. This among other church adjacent forums, has clearly been targeted by those from places like the reddit exmormon thread. They are here to coerce you into agreeing with them or at least drive wedges. Evil or feelings of betrayal spur them on with a zeal they never had as members. Remember to see through their words. For example, they are just as happy to drive you from the church for the prophet being too culturally left wing or not being left wing enough. In a single comment this pattern can be too subtle to notice but pay attention and you will see.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I honestly don’t care what they saw, they teach truths and falsehoods from the same pulpit.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you believe pretty much the same thing about Joseph Smith and the prophets in the scriptures?

That’s quite the stretch to think that what these men are doing today even comes close to what Joseph may have done. These men today directly and blatantly contradict scripture. And, as you failed to include in my quote, they actively discourage members from discussing and seeking their Second Anointing. I can find the audio of Oaks telling a stake leadership meeting that we don’t need to discuss such things.

[LDS Watchman]

These men today directly and blatantly contradict scripture.

Again, don't you claim the exact same thing about Joseph Smith?

[BenMcCrea]

Why was Wilford woodruff the last church president to write down the literal words of the Savior?

And whenever any one of you receives the word of the Lord, let it be written and presented in your councils and whatever by united consent you deem wisdom to be presented unto the people, let it be presented by the President, my servant John Taylor, as the word of the Lord. In this way you will uphold him and strengthen his hands, as all the burden should not lie upon one man

Except he obviously wasn’t the President of the Church when he received this revelation.

[Reluctant Watchman]

These men today directly and blatantly contradict scripture.

Again, don't you claim the exact same thing about Joseph Smith?

I don’t hold Joseph on a pedestal. Was he perfect? No. Admittedly so. But, as I’ve stated already, these men today merit the condemnation prophesied by ancient prophets. And yes, even the church during Joseph’s day (D&C 84).

[LDS Watchman]

These men today directly and blatantly contradict scripture.

Again, don't you claim the exact same thing about Joseph Smith?

I don’t hold Joseph on a pedestal. Was he perfect? No. Admittedly so. But, as I’ve stated already, these men today merit the condemnation prophesied by ancient prophets. And yes, even the church during Joseph’s day (D&C 84).

So you don't care what Joseph saw either? And lets not forget that he was s member of the church at the time D&C 84 was received and published. So if the condemnation is what you claim it is, then Joseph was under it, too.

[Reluctant Watchman]

These men today directly and blatantly contradict scripture.

Again, don't you claim the exact same thing about Joseph Smith?

I don’t hold Joseph on a pedestal. Was he perfect? No. Admittedly so. But, as I’ve stated already, these men today merit the condemnation prophesied by ancient prophets. And yes, even the church during Joseph’s day (D&C 84).

So you don't care what Joseph saw either? And lets not forget that he was s member of the church at the time D&C 84 was received and published. So if the condemnation is what you claim it is, then Joseph was under it, too.

?? What do you mean by I “don’t care what Joseph saw?” I measure the words of any man, be they good or bad.

And yes, Joseph could have been under the same condemnation.

[ransomme]

Thanks for sharing, it gives people something to ponder over.

It's difficult because because these same individuals are quick to use equivalent speech, euphemisms to suggest seeing the Lord without actually saying it.

Why say "apostolic witness" and not say the Lord lives, for I have seen him. That is not a pearls before swine thing. Because pearls are meat and mysteries of the kingdom not open truths like the Savior is resurrected.

And if they are true messengers then they should share the words of God. Honestly if we took their names off of their conferences talks, would we be able to tell the difference between a 70 and a 12? A 12 and a spirit filled blogger?

I am not being a doubting Thomas here either. I am looking for fruits. Testing spirits.

What I am seeing is a corporation and corporate officers. I am seeing lots of friendships with mammon and promotion of mammon's talking points from safe and effective, to sustainability, to agenda 2030, etc. I have literally seen them "restore" the Gospel by survey.

Isaiah, Nephi, Jeremiah, Daniel, and more speak of apostasy just prior to the day of the Lord. They speak of a remnant (and I am in Europe and know little about whatever movements in the states). They speak of things to happen where all is not as well in Zion. So somehow we get from Joseph to the day of the Lord. All will not be well in Zion. I have to ask who is right the scriptures or the current Brotheren? Did they already go away from the path, or is it still in the future?

[Chris]

Thanks for sharing, it gives people something to ponder over.

It's difficult because because these same individuals are quick to use equivalent speech, euphemisms to suggest seeing the Lord without actually saying it.

Why say "apostolic witness" and not say the Lord lives, for I have seen him. That is not a pearls before swine thing. Because pearls are meat and mysteries of the kingdom not open truths like the Savior is resurrected.

And if they are true messengers then they should share the words of God. Honestly if we took their names off of their conferences talks, would we be able to tell the difference between a 70 and a 12? A 12 and a spirit filled blogger?

I am not being a doubting Thomas here either. I am looking for fruits. Testing spirits.

What I am seeing is a corporation and corporate officers. I am seeing lots of friendships with mammon and promotion of mammon's talking points from safe and effective, to sustainability, to agenda 2030, etc. I have literally seen them "restore" the Gospel by survey.

Isaiah, Nephi, Jeremiah, Daniel, and more speak of apostasy just prior to the day of the Lord. They speak of a remnant (and I am in Europe and know little about whatever movements in the states). They speak of things to happen where all is not as well in Zion. So somehow we get from Joseph to the day of the Lord. All will not be well in Zion. I have to ask who is right the scriptures or the current Brotheren? Did they already go away from the path, or is it still in the future?

Yea they speak of your apostacy and the people on this site and others in the church. The great later day apostacy. Ive read the scriptures you guys try to claim show the church is in apostacy. It doesnt say what yall say it says. It is talking about you guys, the unfaithful of the church who turn their backs on it and tge prophets and also our gentile nation who are about to be swept off.....

It fits so perfectly with heber c kimball test prophecy but none of you see it.

[LDS Watchman]

?? What do you mean by I “don’t care what Joseph saw?” I measure the words of any man, be they good or bad.

Just putting two and two together.

You said you don't care what all these apostles saw because you believe that they teach both truth and error.

You also believe that Joseph Smith taught both truth and error.

So the logical conclusion is that you don't care what Joseph Smith saw, either.

And yes, Joseph could have been under the same condemnation.

Okay then. So is it possible that you are making way too much out of this condemnation?

[Chris]

… i have been blessed with the very spiritual experience this thread is about and it happened only because of my diligence to keeping my covenants, and being active in the church and doing as asked and serving in the church. The church is the means by which the lord redeems and guides his children home.

At the opening of the New Testament Anna and Simeon were diligent in keeping all of the commandments and the law as they understood them. Because of that they were blessed with seeing the infant Savior. However, that did NOT mean that their church as it was constituted in their was true. In fact it was destined to be replaced despite their diligence.

And yet around that same time john the baptist father had his experience and an angel apperared in the temple as was the custom. Many also doubtless had experiences too, between you and me we listed 2.

Why did the savior continue to do as his religion expected of him throughout his life, giving sacrifice, going to the temple, teaching, learning, starting his ministry at age 30 as required?

Whether the church was or was not perfect, doesnt matter to the individual. We are still commanded to go to church, keep our covenants and serve as did the savior. Whether those people are righteous or not, we must do what we know is right just as you said. What a truly perfect example he gave.

If simeon and ana did as many on thise site and leave the church, and point fingers they would have lost their reward to see the christ and the ultimate reward of spending eternity with him no matter how right they think they are or how righteous.

[Reluctant Watchman]

?? What do you mean by I “don’t care what Joseph saw?” I measure the words of any man, be they good or bad.

Just putting two and two together.

You said you don't care what all these apostles saw because you believe that they teach both truth and error.

You also believe that Joseph Smith taught both truth and error.

So the logical conclusion is that you don't care what Joseph Smith saw, either.

And yes, Joseph could have been under the same condemnation.

Okay then. So is it possible that you are making way too much out of this condemnation?

Your 2+2 sometimes = asparagus

[LDS Watchman]

?? What do you mean by I “don’t care what Joseph saw?” I measure the words of any man, be they good or bad.

Just putting two and two together.

You said you don't care what all these apostles saw because you believe that they teach both truth and error.

You also believe that Joseph Smith taught both truth and error.

So the logical conclusion is that you don't care what Joseph Smith saw, either.

And yes, Joseph could have been under the same condemnation.

Okay then. So is it possible that you are making way too much out of this condemnation?

Your 2+2 sometimes = asparagus

Just following the logic.

Obviously you hold Joseph and every other church leader to different standards. Your bias and inconsistency is showing loud and clear. That's my whole point.

And I'm not pointing this out to insult you, I'm pointing this out so that you will hopefully recognize that you are being inconsistent and reevaluate some of your conclusions.

[InfoWarrior82]

Why was Wilford woodruff the last church president to write down the literal words of the Savior?

And whenever any one of you receives the word of the Lord, let it be written and presented in your councils and whatever by united consent you deem wisdom to be presented unto the people, let it be presented by the President, my servant John Taylor, as the word of the Lord. In this way you will uphold him and strengthen his hands, as all the burden should not lie upon one man

Except he obviously wasn’t the President of the Church when he received this revelation.

True, he was an apostle under President Taylor at the time.

He also had another in 1889 when he was the president of the church.


But, I'm not exactly sure what your point is? Are you refuting the validity of what was written here? This is either Jesus Christ speaking, or... Was President Woodruff lying and making up quotes? If he wasn't lying, and this truly is Jesus Christ speaking, then why haven't we had another revelation like this since WW??

[Reluctant Watchman]

Obviously you hold Joseph and every other church leader to different standards.

No, I don't. I've said this repeatedly.