Flat Earth - Antarctica - The Firmament -The year NASA was founded

[francisco.colaco]

Take a simple telescope. measure the angles of a star with 6 months interval against the mosty distant stars in the background. Apply geometric reasoning. You can take parallaxes up to a few hundreds of light years with a simple 10 inch telescope.

Parallax happens at all distances. It simply shows different speeds, whether the stars are in the firmament or not. It just means that they move at different speeds. Just because you don't have the imagination to envision complexity as the stars revolve within the firmament doesn't mean that there isn't any.

We also have redshift to guess relative speeds of distant objects. Those are used for distant objects, confirming the expanding Universe.

By the way: stop putting God's creations in a bottle. Even the Book of Abraham states that the Earth is not the centre on the Universe. The Sun would be, since the celestial bodies referred there are evidently all stars, but even there it says the Sun is ruled by higher [mass] bodies.

I won't go into the evidence. I bet you could not solve x² + x + 9 = 1, if I gave you that, let alone differential equations. But it must be frustrating not being able to use the GPS of your car to go anywhere: GPS uses a quasi-spherical model of the earth (spherical for all practical purposes) -- and I know, I have programmed them myself -- so you are, by your own logic, being deceived. Or not being able to go to the seaside and see the boats at the distance appear, mast first. Or not be able to understand how a space probe flight is calculated using the heliocentric model (by personal experience, also).

The Bible was never meant to be a celestial chart. Old civilisations did not have a telescope, and had to reason with what they saw. Our generation has telescopes and advanced instruments, and most of us would not see anything but pretty pictures, let alone exert the gift of reason. I think God is at this very moment checking if he forgot to endow them before sending them off here.

[Gadget]

The earth is round. Anyone that thinks otherwise has a FLAT brain.

Problem is, you all are thinking EVERYTHING operates just on this plane of existence. The dome could exist at a higher spiritual level, perhaps it is a shield or part of the veil? Someone may have seen it while they where shown things we cannot see with our earthly eyes.

[francisco.colaco]

The earth is round. Anyone that thinks otherwise has a FLAT brain.

Problem is, you all are thinking EVERYTHING operates just on this plane of existence. The dome could exist at a higher spiritual level, perhaps it is a shield or part of the veil? Someone may have seen it while they where shown things we cannot see with our earthly eyes.

Or they were intelligent people, but not shown anything. The Lord requires us to evolve and find for ourselves temporal matters. Flat Earth or round Earth will not impact our salvation. Only our intelligence. So, I agree with you on the flat brain issue; and will add that the Lord will have compulsory advanced physics lessons for every one of those that (fortunately!) inherit the Celestial Kingdom.

[gradles21]

The earth is round. Anyone that thinks otherwise has a FLAT brain.

Nice ad hom

[Shawn Henry]

By the way: stop putting God's creations in a bottle.

boats at the distance appear, mast first.

Do you hear yourself? You are dead set on one view of the world at the exclusion of all others and you then turn to someone who is open minded enough to consider others and tell him he's putting God in bottle? Is it opposite day in Italy Francisco? Engage in hypocrisy much?

Why don't you use one of your fancy telescopes and you would actually see that boats do not sail over a curve. Observation has proven this years ago. Watch a ship as it is leaving disappear hull first, then zoom in and the hull reappears. Stay at that magnification until it disappears again and then zoom in again and you will see it reappear once again. Ships disappear hull first because of perspective. Tha angle to the bottom of the ships is less than the angle to the top, so surface particles along your path of vision increase because they are heavier and obscure your vision more easily.

You have missed the basics of too many things. I would have to assume that you are just as prone to do so in other areas as well.

[Shawn Henry]

The dome could exist at a higher spiritual level

So, a spiritual dome holds back physical waters above the earth? Perhaps you should think these through before resorting to name calling.

Nothing in the creation account hints at only the dome being spiritual. What's your logic train after that, all the stars are spiritual and that's how they can be underneath the waters that are above.

There is no reconciliation of the creation account and the heliocentric model, they are diametrically opposed. If the heliocentric model is correct, then our creation accounts, including the ones from Joseph, are wrong.

There is no way to split the earth's waters and put all the stars within them, according to our current model.

[gkearney]

What I don't understand in all of this is what would be the motivations for NASA and other scientific organizations to lie about the nature and shape of the earth, solar system and the universe? What would they gain by doing so?

[Army Of Truth]

. . . . . but the majority of all ancient cultures for thousands of years subscribed to a flat, stationary earth with a dome ceiling. . . . . .

Why should this surprise anyone. Describing our earthly environment as a "flat, stationary earth with a dome ceiling", is what they saw . . . . its based on what you could call a first impression idea of what they were seeing. Not a bad first-stab orientation.

Not only what they saw, but what they read about in their Bible! The Bible is replete with scriptures supporting a flat nonrotating earth, starting with the first page of Genesis which talks about the Firmament!

And the Book of Mormon states that is the Earth that revolves around the Sun. And don't get me started on the Pearl of Great Price.

You mean that one scripture? How about the over 200 scriptures in the Bible that support a flat nonrotating earth while debunking the pagan, sun worshipping heliocentric theory?


Isaiah 40:22 states “It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth…”
If you think this means “ball”, you need to research the meaning of “circle”. A simple image search is shown in the meme below.


Isaiah 22:18 states “toss thee like a ball…” which proves that the word “ball” was purposely not used to describe the “Circle of the earth” eighteen chapters later.


I challenge you to find one single scripture that describes the earth as a ball or sphere.
I'll be waiting...

[Artaxerxes]

Why should this surprise anyone. Describing our earthly environment as a "flat, stationary earth with a dome ceiling", is what they saw . . . . its based on what you could call a first impression idea of what they were seeing. Not a bad first-stab orientation.

Not only what they saw, but what they read about in their Bible! The Bible is replete with scriptures supporting a flat nonrotating earth, starting with the first page of Genesis which talks about the Firmament!

And the Book of Mormon states that is the Earth that revolves around the Sun. And don't get me started on the Pearl of Great Price.

You mean that one scripture? How about the over 200 scriptures in the Bible that support a flat nonrotating earth while debunking the pagan, sun worshipping heliocentric theory?


Isaiah 40:22 states “It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth…”
If you think this means “ball”, you need to research the meaning of “circle”. A simple image search is shown in the meme below.


Isaiah 22:18 states “toss thee like a ball…” which proves that the word “ball” was purposely not used to describe the “Circle of the earth” eighteen chapters later.


I challenge you to find one single scripture that describes the earth as a ball or sphere.
I'll be waiting...

The bible is wrong, the BoM is right.

"And thus, according to his word the earth goeth back, and it appeareth unto man that the sun standeth still; yea, and behold, this is so; for surely it is the earth that moveth and not the sun."
Helaman 12:15

[Army Of Truth]

What I don't understand in all of this is what would be the motivations for NASA and other scientific organizations to lie about the nature and shape of the earth, solar system and the universe? What would they gain by doing so?

You mean other than the $64 Million a day that NASA gets from our taxpayer money? Do you really think they would want to endanger their $64 Million Cash Cow?

All corrupt governments throughout history have lied for the same reasons. The same reasons they lied about evolution, Big bang theory, fluoride, MSG, aspartame, the moon landing, 9/11, etc - Control, Power, and Money to fund the puppets. More power for them means less power for We the People.

They want us to believe we're a Godless random accident that evolved from primordial soup to monkeys spinning on a ball flying through space and can randomly be taken out by an asteroid any day. This fills us with fear and no life purpose which makes us easier to control. Since there's no room for God in their pagan sun-worshipping Heliocentric spinning ball space monkey religion, it's easier for people to look to the government for answers. Then they continue to lie to us through mainstream government-controlled media while stealing more of our money through taxes which gives them even more power & control over us. This is what we've all been indoctrinated with since kindergarten.

[Army Of Truth]

Not only what they saw, but what they read about in their Bible! The Bible is replete with scriptures supporting a flat nonrotating earth, starting with the first page of Genesis which talks about the Firmament!

And the Book of Mormon states that is the Earth that revolves around the Sun. And don't get me started on the Pearl of Great Price.

You mean that one scripture? How about the over 200 scriptures in the Bible that support a flat nonrotating earth while debunking the pagan, sun worshipping heliocentric theory?


Isaiah 40:22 states “It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth…”
If you think this means “ball”, you need to research the meaning of “circle”. A simple image search is shown in the meme below.


Isaiah 22:18 states “toss thee like a ball…” which proves that the word “ball” was purposely not used to describe the “Circle of the earth” eighteen chapters later.


I challenge you to find one single scripture that describes the earth as a ball or sphere.
I'll be waiting...

The bible is wrong, the BoM is right.

"And thus, according to his word the earth goeth back, and it appeareth unto man that the sun standeth still; yea, and behold, this is so; for surely it is the earth that moveth and not the sun."
Helaman 12:15

LOL! Actually, the BoM is WRONG. The 200+ BIBLE verses are RIGHT!
200 to 1 is a LANDSLIDE Win for truth!

By the way, Im still waiting for any more scriptural proof for the Heliocentric theory?

[Artaxerxes]

And the Book of Mormon states that is the Earth that revolves around the Sun. And don't get me started on the Pearl of Great Price.

You mean that one scripture? How about the over 200 scriptures in the Bible that support a flat nonrotating earth while debunking the pagan, sun worshipping heliocentric theory?


Isaiah 40:22 states “It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth…”
If you think this means “ball”, you need to research the meaning of “circle”. A simple image search is shown in the meme below.


Isaiah 22:18 states “toss thee like a ball…” which proves that the word “ball” was purposely not used to describe the “Circle of the earth” eighteen chapters later.


I challenge you to find one single scripture that describes the earth as a ball or sphere.
I'll be waiting...

The bible is wrong, the BoM is right.

"And thus, according to his word the earth goeth back, and it appeareth unto man that the sun standeth still; yea, and behold, this is so; for surely it is the earth that moveth and not the sun."
Helaman 12:15

LOL! Actually, the BoM is WRONG. The 200+ BIBLE verses are RIGHT!
200 to 1 is a LANDSLIDE Win for truth!

By the way, Im still waiting for any more scriptural proof for the Heliocentric theory?

I'm gonna stick with the most correct book, myself, but you do you.

You're looking for one that says the earth moves and not the sun? ... The ... the one that says that the earth moves and not the sun. That one.

[Niemand]

What I don't understand in all of this is what would be the motivations for NASA and other scientific organizations to lie about the nature and shape of the earth, solar system and the universe? What would they gain by doing so?

You mean other than the $64 Million a day that NASA gets from our taxpayer money? Do you really think they would want to endanger their $64 Million Cash Cow?

All corrupt governments throughout history have lied for the same reasons. The same reasons they lied about evolution, Big bang theory, fluoride, MSG, aspartame, the moon landing, 9/11, etc - Control, Power, and Money to fund the puppets. More power for them means less power for We the People.

They want us to believe we're a Godless random accident that evolved from primordial soup to monkeys spinning on a ball flying through space and can randomly be taken out by an asteroid any day. This fills us with fear and no life purpose which makes us easier to control. Since there's no room for God in their pagan sun-worshipping Heliocentric spinning ball space monkey religion, it's easier for people to look to the government for answers. Then they continue to lie to us through mainstream government-controlled media while stealing more of our money through taxes which gives them even more power & control over us. This is what we've all been indoctrinated with since kindergarten.

These arguments don't really work. Let's go through them.
* It's not just about NASA. This idea was centuries before NASA. It is also worldwide not just the USA. Most of us foreigners aren't that bothered by how much money you folk give NASA really. That's your affair.
* The effort of maintaining the charade of a globular Earth far outstrips any benefit to those in power. Much more so than the other examples you mention.
* Most Christians are not flat Earthers. To them the question of the shape of the Earth has never been essential to their salvation. As I have mentioned elsewhere it is theoretically possible to be a Flat Earther and an atheist – I have never come across such a person, but it is not impossible.
* "Since there's no room for God in their pagan sun-worshipping Heliocentric spinning ball space monkey religion, it's easier for people to look to the government for answers." – this is questionable tol. There are plenty of anarchists and libertarians who are not Flat Earthers. The shape of the world plays little to no part in determining people's loyalty to government. In ancient times, there were plenty of despotic governments who operated without any such recourse to the shape of the world.
* "there's no room for God in their pagan sun-worshipping Heliocentric spinning ball space monkey religion" – as opposed to a shrunken God with few powers who essentially operates a small children's diorama which we live on. The problem with Flat Earth theory from a theological POV is that it diminishes God's creative powers and control to something very minor.

[Shawn Henry]

I'm gonna stick with the most correct book, myself, but you do you.

You are not sticking with the BoM at all. You didn't quote the most important part of that chapter, the part where he says "if" he says unto the earth move, then it moves. He's introducing a hypothetical. Helaman 12 is a geostationary chapter. All you are sticking with is the precepts of men.

By the way, you are also claiming Joseph Smith translated the PoGP incorrectly when he states all the stars are right here within the earth's waters.

[Shawn Henry]

These arguments don't really work. Let's go through them. Yes, let's go through them.

* It's not just about NASA. This idea was centuries before NASA. It is also worldwide not just the USA. Most of us foreigners aren't that bothered by how much money you folk give NASA really. That's your affair. The US government controls the entire world through economic sanctions. Maybe you should hit an endowment session and learn about how Satan buys up armies, navies, space agencies, and false priests who oppress.
* The effort of maintaining the charade of a globular Earth far outstrips any benefit to those in power. Much more so than the other examples you mention. The hell it does, if you don't maintain it, you are thrown out of power and you lose the whole game. Atheisms dies as soon as everyone sees we are inside God's creation.
* Most Christians are not flat Earthers. To them the question of the shape of the Earth has never been essential to their salvation. As I have mentioned elsewhere it is theoretically possible to be a Flat Earther and an atheist – I have never come across such a person, but it is not impossible. Yeah, there are likely a few idiots who will think aliens built the dome, so what. Well over 90% of non-believers will start believing.
* "Since there's no room for God in their pagan sun-worshipping Heliocentric spinning ball space monkey religion, it's easier for people to look to the government for answers." – this is questionable too. There are plenty of anarchists and libertarians who are not Flat Earthers. The shape of the world plays little to no part in determining people's loyalty to government. In ancient times, there were plenty of despotic governments who operated without any such recourse to the shape of the world. Once the people find out they were mind raped, they will utterly destroy their system of government.
* "there's no room for God in their pagan sun-worshipping Heliocentric spinning ball space monkey religion" – as opposed to a shrunken God with few powers who essentially operates a small children's diorama which we live on. The problem with Flat Earth theory from a theological POV is that it diminishes God's creative powers and control to something very minor. That's a dumb thing to say. Just because we don't know what is outside our creation, therefore it must mean that God is limited, simply because we don't know. Why the hell wouldn't you just presuppose that even something better is beyond?

[Niemand]

These arguments don't really work. Let's go through them. Yes, let's go through them.

* It's not just about NASA. This idea was centuries before NASA. It is also worldwide not just the USA. Most of us foreigners aren't that bothered by how much money you folk give NASA really. That's your affair. The US government controls the entire world through economic sanctions. Maybe you should hit an endowment session and learn about how Satan buys up armies, navies, space agencies, and false priests who oppress.
* The effort of maintaining the charade of a globular Earth far outstrips any benefit to those in power. Much more so than the other examples you mention. The hell it does, if you don't maintain it, you are thrown out of power and you lose the whole game. Atheisms dies as soon as everyone sees we are inside God's creation.
* Most Christians are not flat Earthers. To them the question of the shape of the Earth has never been essential to their salvation. As I have mentioned elsewhere it is theoretically possible to be a Flat Earther and an atheist – I have never come across such a person, but it is not impossible. Yeah, there are likely a few idiots who will think aliens built the dome, so what. Well over 90% of non-believers will start believing.
* "Since there's no room for God in their pagan sun-worshipping Heliocentric spinning ball space monkey religion, it's easier for people to look to the government for answers." – this is questionable too. There are plenty of anarchists and libertarians who are not Flat Earthers. The shape of the world plays little to no part in determining people's loyalty to government. In ancient times, there were plenty of despotic governments who operated without any such recourse to the shape of the world. Once the people find out they were mind raped, they will utterly destroy their system of government.
* "there's no room for God in their pagan sun-worshipping Heliocentric spinning ball space monkey religion" – as opposed to a shrunken God with few powers who essentially operates a small children's diorama which we live on. The problem with Flat Earth theory from a theological POV is that it diminishes God's creative powers and control to something very minor. That's a dumb thing to say. Just because we don't know what is outside our creation, therefore it must mean that God is limited, simply because we don't know. Why the hell wouldn't you just presuppose that even something better is beyond?

NASA was only founded in 1958, which is still within living memory. They had little influence on the British and French empires which were crumbling at this point in time, let alone people of the 19th century. There were no NASA sanctions back when Queen Victoria was on the throne. In fact, the USA had an inferior bargaining position back then and a smaller navy.

When one does most things in life, you expect to get at least equal return or something better. The same applies in this instance. The effort needed to keep such a charade going is massive, and is much less than the payoff. On the other hand, the expense of keeping Flat Earth Theory in the public eye is fairly minimal, and has the payoff of ridiculing any non-mainstream ideas by association. Flat Earth Theory has been round for a while, but at some point in the 2010s it suddenly became very high profile. (Much higher profile than the much more interesting Hollow Earth theory.)

A Flat Earth isn't innately faith promoting, anymore than the Electric Universe, Steady Stage, Welteislehre or Hollow Earth. Yes, some might think it is artificial (there is even a Stephen King novel called "the Dome" which promotes a similar idea), or organic (much like a bubble in a bath or ice).

Why the hell wouldn't you just presuppose that even something better is beyond?

I already do. But I don't think of us living in a pocket universe where we can only see a few miles up. I think there is bigger and better out there. Flat Earth Theory inadvertently minimises and shrinks the visible universe.

I often wonder if this revival is also partly a consequence of light pollution. (Aside from the dubious funding). In most built up areas now, you can't see many stars or planets at all. If you've been in a remote area in the dark, you can see hundreds of them. If you get a half decent telescope you can make out a number of features which can't be seen with the naked eye, such as the moons of at least three planets – Mars, Jupiter and Saturn.

Once the people find out they were mind raped, they will utterly destroy their system of government.

Most people out there "don't want to cause trouble". I think recent events prove that. There are governments out there which have caused far worse atrocities than the west in living memory yet are still in power or were never removed. The PRC for one in the sixties and seventies.

[francisco.colaco]

Why don't you use one of your fancy telescopes and you would actually see that boats do not sail over a curve.

Yes they do. I was born near the sea. I also took pictures from satellites myself. The Earth is round.

[Artaxerxes]

By the way: stop putting God's creations in a bottle.

boats at the distance appear, mast first.

Do you hear yourself? You are dead set on one view of the world at the exclusion of all others and you then turn to someone who is open minded enough to consider others and tell him he's putting God in bottle? Is it opposite day in Italy Francisco? Engage in hypocrisy much?

Why don't you use one of your fancy telescopes and you would actually see that boats do not sail over a curve. Observation has proven this years ago. Watch a ship as it is leaving disappear hull first, then zoom in and the hull reappears. Stay at that magnification until it disappears again and then zoom in again and you will see it reappear once again. Ships disappear hull first because of perspective. Tha angle to the bottom of the ships is less than the angle to the top, so surface particles along your path of vision increase because they are heavier and obscure your vision more easily.

You have missed the basics of too many things. I would have to assume that you are just as prone to do so in other areas as well.

In the northern hemisphere, when we all look north, we can see the sky rotating on a central point, which shows that there is some kind of north axis.

If the earth were flat, what would we see on the southern hemisphere when we looked south?

[gradles21]

Why don't you use one of your fancy telescopes and you would actually see that boats do not sail over a curve.

Yes they do. I was born near the sea. I also took pictures from satellites myself. The Earth is round.

We've been over this a bunch of times on this forum. Only to the naked eye do ships go over a horizon. Once you zoom in with a high powered optic the entire boat reappears (assuming the water is fairly calm), I've done this myself, and there are a myriad of examples of this online. The globe earth believers will shout "REFRACTION" and the globe sceptics will disagree.

[Shawn Henry]

NASA

Anything about Nasa is irrelevant, they are simply a tool used by the ruling secret societies, whose power and influence you seem to have a hard time seeing. The adversary has long since bought and owned the whole system.

Flat earth absolutely is faith promoting. 9 out of 10 will attribute our being in a giant terrarium to God, while an electric universe still allows for atheism and while a hollow earth would point to creation it still leaves us all alone floating through the vastness on nothingness.

It seems you have a religious connection to the heliocentric model, especially considering you are willing to discount Joseph's creation accounts.

Your presupposition that because you can't see beyond, therefore the beyond is "minimized" is quite illogical.

[Shawn Henry]

If the earth were flat, what would we see on the southern hemisphere when we looked south?

We don't know because we don't know what the make-up of the medium we are looking through is, nor its height or depth. There is so much moisture in the atmosphere and then we have the waters above. It would be akin to trying to measure distance and azimuth in a swimming pool.

Bringing up the North Star does not help your cause. It has been in that exact same position for far too long to still be right there in the middle. Not what you'd expect in an ever-expanding universe.

[Shawn Henry]

We've been over this a bunch of times on this forum.

It's frustrating, right!

Here we are trying to go over things that the debate passed over years ago, all for someone who refuses to look at the Flat Earth basic evidence that no one else any longer argues about.

[Artaxerxes]

If the earth were flat, what would we see on the southern hemisphere when we looked south?

We don't know because we don't know what the make-up of the medium we are looking through is, nor its height or depth. There is so much moisture in the atmosphere and then we have the waters above. It would be akin to trying to measure distance and azimuth in a swimming pool.

Bringing up the North Star does not help your cause. It has been in that exact same position for far too long to still be right there in the middle. Not what you'd expect in an ever-expanding universe.

I'm not talking about distance. I'm asking how there could be a southern axis to a disc?

[Shawn Henry]

I'm not talking about distance. I'm asking how there could be a southern axis to a disc?

I don't know the answer to that one brother, I seen it work in some YouTube videos, but I don't remember enough to re-articulate it.

Does it seem odd to you that Polaris is in the exact same position millenium after millenium?

[Artaxerxes]

I'm not talking about distance. I'm asking how there could be a southern axis to a disc?

I don't know the answer to that one brother, I seen it work in some YouTube videos, but I don't remember enough to re-articulate it.

Does it seem odd to you that Polaris is in the exact same position millenium after millenium?

No. And even if it did, "seems odd" is always going to lose out to "impossible." And having people in the different parts of the southern hemisphere all able to look south and see the same thing makes the flat earth impossible.

Think of it like a record player. It comports with a flat earth model that everyone can look inward (north) and see the same thing. But if you were on the outer edge of the record looking outward (south) and other people at different parts of the outer edge looking south, it would be impossible for you to be looking at the same thing. Not just odd but impossible.