Wear a cross?

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abijah
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by abijah »

FoundMyEden wrote: October 3rd, 2022, 12:20 pmPick your idol, pick your poison.
exactly. its the more nonsensical aspects of protestantism taken to their (il)logical extreme.

are paintings idols? is the christus a graven image? Lol

Niyr
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by Niyr »

I must have missed where Elder Holland said that no member should ever wear a cross. He only said that the cross wasn't a symbol for our church, and he explained why. The cross wasn't used for hundreds of years after Christ's crucifixion.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Mamabear wrote: October 3rd, 2022, 12:11 pm Don’t get tattoos!
I actually think this was removed from the FSoY pamphlet. Bring on the arm sleeve!!

John Tavner
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by John Tavner »

Serragon wrote: October 3rd, 2022, 12:37 pm
CuriousThinker wrote: October 3rd, 2022, 12:08 pm
Serragon wrote: October 3rd, 2022, 11:40 am
CuriousThinker wrote: October 3rd, 2022, 11:03 am

How did you feel about YW medallions, CTR rings, and now the emblems of belonging that they give to Primary kids turning 8?
There is a fundamental difference between an object that to the vast majority of the Christian world represents Christ Himself and is often worshipped vicariously and an object that is meant to remind you to make good choices.

And "Emblems of Belonging" makes me want to puke as that is progressive speak and is illustrative of the inroads that satanic ideology has made into our church.
I have never heard of anyone worshipping the cross, though I am sure they are out there. When I wear mine it is a reminder of who I represent and what I stand for. It represents the Savior and his sacrifice for me and my taking up the cross as he told us all too. If others do something crazy I don't think it means I should stop when I am not doing it crazy too. Wearing a cross is not the same as worshipping. Just like I wear garments, but I don't worship them.
Thanks for sharing what the cross subjectively means to you.

I find it strange how people will take emblems from other faiths that have specific meanings, uses, and history and then act as though they are magically devoid of all those properties because that person has made up their own subjective definition of said stolen symbol.

Your subjective description of what the cross means to you is the very definition of an idol. It is a man-made representation of God. We have become so ignorant of history and christian theology that we often don't understand what we are doing, just like the ancient Israelites didn't understand the full measure of what they were doing when they needed a man made representation of God.

I would never wear the cross, because I understand how it came to be, its history, and how God has felt about idols throughout Judeo-christian history. But to most, that is all irrelevant and all that matters is how they feel about it.
Yet a fundmental misunderstanding is also how God makes what was unholy, holy. Furthermore an idol is something consecrated for and as an object of worship. So curiousthinking is not creating an "idol" out of the symbolism of the cross. It is a representation of belief. Not the focus of belief. Paul said it best, if it violates your conscience, don't do it, if it doesn't great, and then don't judge those that do... and don't judge those that don't... whether you are weak or strong in the faith.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

A person could make the emblems of bread and water just as much of an idol if we lose the symbolic intent.

Mamabear
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by Mamabear »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 3rd, 2022, 12:59 pm
Mamabear wrote: October 3rd, 2022, 12:11 pm Don’t get tattoos!
I actually think this was removed from the FSoY pamphlet. Bring on the arm sleeve!!
Your right! Along with homosexuality being a sin! Guess they were equally unimportant!

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Robin Hood
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by Robin Hood »

I'm with Elder Holland on this... no cross wearing.

abijah
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by abijah »

this kid wears a cross
generally speaking hes way more based than 99% percentile of mormons, runs in more enlightened social circles maybe. he's about to leave on a mission.

he talks about it (wearing a cross) at 21:34. makes a point about making conversation with other christians, which i think is fair.

CuriousThinker
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by CuriousThinker »

Serragon wrote: October 3rd, 2022, 12:37 pm
CuriousThinker wrote: October 3rd, 2022, 12:08 pm
Serragon wrote: October 3rd, 2022, 11:40 am
CuriousThinker wrote: October 3rd, 2022, 11:03 am

How did you feel about YW medallions, CTR rings, and now the emblems of belonging that they give to Primary kids turning 8?
There is a fundamental difference between an object that to the vast majority of the Christian world represents Christ Himself and is often worshipped vicariously and an object that is meant to remind you to make good choices.

And "Emblems of Belonging" makes me want to puke as that is progressive speak and is illustrative of the inroads that satanic ideology has made into our church.
I have never heard of anyone worshipping the cross, though I am sure they are out there. When I wear mine it is a reminder of who I represent and what I stand for. It represents the Savior and his sacrifice for me and my taking up the cross as he told us all too. If others do something crazy I don't think it means I should stop when I am not doing it crazy too. Wearing a cross is not the same as worshipping. Just like I wear garments, but I don't worship them.
Thanks for sharing what the cross subjectively means to you.

I find it strange how people will take emblems from other faiths that have specific meanings, uses, and history and then act as though they are magically devoid of all those properties because that person has made up their own subjective definition of said stolen symbol.

Your subjective description of what the cross means to you is the very definition of an idol. It is a man-made representation of God. We have become so ignorant of history and christian theology that we often don't understand what we are doing, just like the ancient Israelites didn't understand the full measure of what they were doing when they needed a man made representation of God.

I would never wear the cross, because I understand how it came to be, its history, and how God has felt about idols throughout Judeo-christian history. But to most, that is all irrelevant and all that matters is how they feel about it.
You and I clearly differ on what an idol is. If a reminder of your relationship with Christ is an idol then so are ctr rings and YW medallions. They represent faith.

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Subcomandante
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by Subcomandante »

Mamabear wrote: October 3rd, 2022, 1:23 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 3rd, 2022, 12:59 pm
Mamabear wrote: October 3rd, 2022, 12:11 pm Don’t get tattoos!
I actually think this was removed from the FSoY pamphlet. Bring on the arm sleeve!!
Your right! Along with homosexuality being a sin! Guess they were equally unimportant!
Both of you misrepresent what was written in the pamphlet.

Homosexual BEHAVIOR, that is, homosexual ACTIONS, are the sin. Having same-sex ATTRACTION, due to a TEMPTATION, is not a sin. ACTING on that temptation is a sin.

Everyone is tempted with various sins. Even Jesus was tempted.

blitzinstripes
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by blitzinstripes »

I love the sacred and beautiful symbolism of the cross which reminds me daily of my Lord's atonement. I've never understood the animosity displayed by the LDS church toward that symbol.

In truth and deed I consider myself first and foremost a CHRISTIAN. I am far less concerned with any form of religious identity beyond that. Christ is coming back for his people. Some of them will be LDS, many of them will not be.

CuriousThinker
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by CuriousThinker »

I was thinking about this a bit more and I find it really interesting that others, whether they are GA's or other church members get to determine what something means to others. It is especially strange given that most people do not consider us Christian, but we do believe in Christ, just not by their prescribed manner or definition. So, even knowing that history of wanting to decide what our own faith means and not wanting others to put definitions or opinions on it, we can say that crosses must mean that it isn't about the Savior being resurrected. I know many who use the empty cross BECAUSE it means he has risen and that they believe in Him. That is what I think of when I see a cross and when I wear mine. It is not at all doctrinal to not wear it. The church used to use crosses. They even put one on the D&C European version in the 19th Century. It is something that fell out of favor because of President McKay but there is no scripture that says it is wrong, and in fact they use crosses to remind us to follow the Savior and take up our cross. So, we are conflating opinions with doctrine. It totally get if the church doesn't want to have it in temples, artwork, meetinghouses, etc. That is their prerogative. But, to say that someone putting one in their home or wearing one is somehow wrong is overstepping in my opinion.

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largerthanlife2
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by largerthanlife2 »

Mamabear wrote: October 3rd, 2022, 12:11 pm Don’t wear a colored shirt if you’re a guy at church! Don’t get tattoos! Don’t wear more than one pair of earrings! Don’t wear a cross! Don’t show your shoulders! Don’t have a beard! Wear your garments!
None of it matters. I find it ironic that the scriptures warn against fine apparel and the leaders ignore that one and everbawdy running around in expensive suits!
We are temples of God made without hands where His Spirit may dwell. How about caring about that? Who cares about what we wear!
If I was still attending church I would buy the biggest cross and wear it every Sunday.
I proudly wear a blue or purple shirt every week to church. I sit in the front row so everyone knows it is just fine to wear colored shirts.

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AkalAish
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by AkalAish »

Identity is a powerful thing. When we wear something...anything, really, but especially things of a religious nature...we are making a statement about identity.

When people see me wearing a kippah or tzitzit, they automatically have an idea (for good, ill, or somewhere in between) of who I am and for what I stand.

I appreciate this conversation, because I think it speaks to deeper ontological themes. The worn item becomes a bearer of perceived identity. It reveals to those who see it where we stand.

There is a phrase that often adorns the Aron HaKodesh (the Holy Ark) in synagogues wherein the Torah scrolls are kept. It says this...

דע לפני מי אתה עומד

Da lifnei mi atah omed.

Know before Whom you stand.

It is important to realize, I believe, our place before the Sovereign of the Universe.

What the world thinks of this is largely beyond our control. What we wear suggests to the world what we wish them to know about where we stand.

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David13
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by David13 »

I guess you might say I'm somewhat of an iconoclast. I don't think there should be any symbols, or tattoos, or tokens, or lucky rabbit's foot, or crosses, and most most most certainly no "pictures" "photos" or "paintings" of Jesus, looking like some 1960s long haired, bearded hippie on the wall.

But I can[t stop you people from doing it, so .... trip out!

It's not for me, though.
dc

Nor lucky Jesus rabbit foot, with long hair, or beard.

Peeps
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by Peeps »

1 Corinthians 1
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

Spoiler
The cross is the "sacred geometry," Image"Corpus Hypercubus" by Salvador Dali

that gets us out of this "sacred geometry."

Image

The platonic solids that have entrapped us, i.e., the flesh.
Image

Image

Jude 1
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting *chains* under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Chains according to Strong's concordance are "ligaments of the body," which are to be considered an impediment.

We may not be the fallen angels of Genesis chapter 6 which the verse is referring to (who took the daughters of men to wife and beget the giants that caused the flood), but we surely did not keep our first estate either, otherwise, we would not now be facing death, and we would still be in Heaven with the Father. We are like the youngest son in the prodigal son parable, Jesus Christ was like the "fatted calf," and the fallen angels are the jealous older son.

The Book of Mormon speaks of Heaven and hell. No middle kingdoms. The bible speaks of differing glories of resurrected bodies, not different kingdoms of glory. The LDS belief that everyone except for some son of perdition, inherits a kingdom of glory is a false, Universalist approach that appeals to the flesh.

Hell is a real place. We should all watch Mel Gibson's "Passion of Christ," to check our attitude toward sin. He suffered that so we wouldn't have to. We are all just as guilty as the crowd who wanted Barabbas to go free, because we are Barabbas.

Image

Image

The sacrament song "I Know My Redeemer Lives" should brings tears to our eyes when sung, because it's not only beautiful, it's absolutely true. He Lives! And He is worthy to be praised! All praise goes to Him, for nothing is greater than He is.

He split time itself when He was crucified and was resurrected. Nobody else has ever done that. The veil was rent into, a veil so thick and strong teams of oxen pulling in opposite directions could not have done it. The stone in the Holies also split into. The flesh is a cube, unfold a cube it makes a cross. The Atonement took place on the cross. Sweating blood from every pore was agonizing, but it did not get us out of our cube. The flesh had to literally be crucified on a cross because we have been locked in a cube, in chains under darkness. We are beings of light that cast a shadow.

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Momma J
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by Momma J »

I did not wear a cross for 30-some years. I was taught that the cross signifies Christs death. We, as Mormons celebrated his resurrection not his death. I thought this was odd, but I never questioned.

When I remarried, my husband gave me a beautiful crucifix on a delicate chain. He asked me when he proposed if I would be able to live a Christ-like life with him. This cross means a great deal more than my wedding band.

Many times throughout the day, I reach up and touch it. It is a gentle reminder of our Savior's love for us and my commitment to live a better life. (similar to the CTR ring I suppose)

I have had members of the church and my family question my wearing of the cross; some in an accusing tone. It is almost as if they feel I am being blasphemous.

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Momma J
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by Momma J »

AkalAish wrote: October 3rd, 2022, 10:05 pm Identity is a powerful thing. When we wear something...anything, really, but especially things of a religious nature...we are making a statement about identity.

When people see me wearing a kippah or tzitzit, they automatically have an idea (for good, ill, or somewhere in between) of who I am and for what I stand.

I appreciate this conversation, because I think it speaks to deeper ontological themes. The worn item becomes a bearer of perceived identity. It reveals to those who see it where we stand.

There is a phrase that often adorns the Aron HaKodesh (the Holy Ark) in synagogues wherein the Torah scrolls are kept. It says this...

דע לפני מי אתה עומד

Da lifnei mi atah omed.

Know before Whom you stand.

It is important to realize, I believe, our place before the Sovereign of the Universe.

What the world thinks of this is largely beyond our control. What we wear suggests to the world what we wish them to know about where we stand.
This has me thinking. Are we strong enough to to stand in front of an enemy army and wear our kippah or cross? Will we be able to stand firm in our beliefs, even if doing so will bring about our death?

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AkalAish
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by AkalAish »

Momma J wrote: October 4th, 2022, 9:31 am
AkalAish wrote: October 3rd, 2022, 10:05 pm Identity is a powerful thing. When we wear something...anything, really, but especially things of a religious nature...we are making a statement about identity.

When people see me wearing a kippah or tzitzit, they automatically have an idea (for good, ill, or somewhere in between) of who I am and for what I stand.

I appreciate this conversation, because I think it speaks to deeper ontological themes. The worn item becomes a bearer of perceived identity. It reveals to those who see it where we stand.

There is a phrase that often adorns the Aron HaKodesh (the Holy Ark) in synagogues wherein the Torah scrolls are kept. It says this...

דע לפני מי אתה עומד

Da lifnei mi atah omed.

Know before Whom you stand.

It is important to realize, I believe, our place before the Sovereign of the Universe.

What the world thinks of this is largely beyond our control. What we wear suggests to the world what we wish them to know about where we stand.
This has me thinking. Are we strong enough to to stand in front of an enemy army and wear our kippah or cross? Will we be able to stand firm in our beliefs, even if doing so will bring about our death?
It is easy for us, sitting in the comfort of our own societal acceptance, to say emphatically, "Yes!" Of course I would be willing to...even unto death. For many who are faced with the actuality of it...if we are intellectually honest...it is more of a mental struggle. Still, I would like to say that I would stand firm. Hopefully I will not have to find out.

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Momma J
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by Momma J »

AkalAish wrote: October 4th, 2022, 9:56 am
Momma J wrote: October 4th, 2022, 9:31 am
This has me thinking. Are we strong enough to to stand in front of an enemy army and wear our kippah or cross? Will we be able to stand firm in our beliefs, even if doing so will bring about our death?
It is easy for us, sitting in the comfort of our own societal acceptance, to say emphatically, "Yes!" Of course I would be willing to...even unto death. For many who are faced with the actuality of it...if we are intellectually honest...it is more of a mental struggle. Still, I would like to say that I would stand firm. Hopefully I will not have to find out.
I believe that I am strong enough to stand for my beliefs. Yet, I am reminded that Peter denied knowing Jesus three times.

Several months ago I had a dream that my husband and I were on our knees. Our heads were bowed in prayer as we held each other's hand. We were being mocked and threatened with death. We continued to pray and my husband squeezed my hand. I heard a gun shot and could no longer feel my husband's hand squeeze mine.

I raised my head to Heaven and sang a song of praise and my voice was joined with an army of angels. I do not know if I can be this strong

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Jamescm
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by Jamescm »

I used to wear a cross as a reminder of Jesus Christ. Quite some time ago, however, I ceased wearing them because I came to believe the true significance of Christ's Atonement was more in the garden than on the cross, per se. The cross is merely where he "finished" everything and died. I'm not opposed to wearing a cross, and I recognize it as a symbol of those professing faith in Jesus as the Christ, but I don't outwardly wear a literal one anymore.

Niyr
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by Niyr »

blitzinstripes wrote: October 3rd, 2022, 6:03 pm I love the sacred and beautiful symbolism of the cross which reminds me daily of my Lord's atonement. I've never understood the animosity displayed by the LDS church toward that symbol.

In truth and deed I consider myself first and foremost a CHRISTIAN. I am far less concerned with any form of religious identity beyond that. Christ is coming back for his people. Some of them will be LDS, many of them will not be.
The Atonement didn't happen on the cross.

John Tavner
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by John Tavner »

Niyr wrote: October 4th, 2022, 12:15 pm
blitzinstripes wrote: October 3rd, 2022, 6:03 pm I love the sacred and beautiful symbolism of the cross which reminds me daily of my Lord's atonement. I've never understood the animosity displayed by the LDS church toward that symbol.

In truth and deed I consider myself first and foremost a CHRISTIAN. I am far less concerned with any form of religious identity beyond that. Christ is coming back for his people. Some of them will be LDS, many of them will not be.
The Atonement didn't happen on the cross.
Much of it did. Mormon's don't understand the full scope of atonement and we think it all happened in the garden, that it all happened in the Garden is an incorrect understanding.

CuriousThinker
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by CuriousThinker »

John Tavner wrote: October 4th, 2022, 12:40 pm
Niyr wrote: October 4th, 2022, 12:15 pm
blitzinstripes wrote: October 3rd, 2022, 6:03 pm I love the sacred and beautiful symbolism of the cross which reminds me daily of my Lord's atonement. I've never understood the animosity displayed by the LDS church toward that symbol.

In truth and deed I consider myself first and foremost a CHRISTIAN. I am far less concerned with any form of religious identity beyond that. Christ is coming back for his people. Some of them will be LDS, many of them will not be.
The Atonement didn't happen on the cross.
Much of it did. Mormon's don't understand the full scope of atonement and we think it all happened in the garden, that it all happened in the Garden is an incorrect understanding.
Many scriptures, including the Book of Mormon, specifically mention the cross as being part of the Atonement. I don't know why we don't understand that better as members.

blitzinstripes
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Re: Wear a cross?

Post by blitzinstripes »

Niyr wrote: October 4th, 2022, 12:15 pm
blitzinstripes wrote: October 3rd, 2022, 6:03 pm I love the sacred and beautiful symbolism of the cross which reminds me daily of my Lord's atonement. I've never understood the animosity displayed by the LDS church toward that symbol.

In truth and deed I consider myself first and foremost a CHRISTIAN. I am far less concerned with any form of religious identity beyond that. Christ is coming back for his people. Some of them will be LDS, many of them will not be.
The Atonement didn't happen on the cross.
Part of it certainly did. Jesus had to become a literal blood sacrifice and die. That happened on the cross. The atonement was not completed in Gethsemane. It was begun there. Christ himself declared it complete only after he had also hung and suffered the physical anguish of the cross and was ready to offer up his Spirit at that time. It's frustrating to always hear the LDS church downplaying the crucifixion. It shows an utter lack of understanding of the law of sacrifice. Torture, anguish, and prolonged suffering were not the hallmarks of blood sacrifice from Adam to Moses and up until Christ. But the actual slaying of the sacrificial animal WAS.

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