exactly. its the more nonsensical aspects of protestantism taken to their (il)logical extreme.
are paintings idols? is the christus a graven image? Lol
exactly. its the more nonsensical aspects of protestantism taken to their (il)logical extreme.
Post by Reluctant Watchman »
I actually think this was removed from the FSoY pamphlet. Bring on the arm sleeve!!
Post by John Tavner »
Yet a fundmental misunderstanding is also how God makes what was unholy, holy. Furthermore an idol is something consecrated for and as an object of worship. So curiousthinking is not creating an "idol" out of the symbolism of the cross. It is a representation of belief. Not the focus of belief. Paul said it best, if it violates your conscience, don't do it, if it doesn't great, and then don't judge those that do... and don't judge those that don't... whether you are weak or strong in the faith.Serragon wrote: ↑October 3rd, 2022, 12:37 pmThanks for sharing what the cross subjectively means to you.CuriousThinker wrote: ↑October 3rd, 2022, 12:08 pmI have never heard of anyone worshipping the cross, though I am sure they are out there. When I wear mine it is a reminder of who I represent and what I stand for. It represents the Savior and his sacrifice for me and my taking up the cross as he told us all too. If others do something crazy I don't think it means I should stop when I am not doing it crazy too. Wearing a cross is not the same as worshipping. Just like I wear garments, but I don't worship them.Serragon wrote: ↑October 3rd, 2022, 11:40 amThere is a fundamental difference between an object that to the vast majority of the Christian world represents Christ Himself and is often worshipped vicariously and an object that is meant to remind you to make good choices.CuriousThinker wrote: ↑October 3rd, 2022, 11:03 am
How did you feel about YW medallions, CTR rings, and now the emblems of belonging that they give to Primary kids turning 8?
And "Emblems of Belonging" makes me want to puke as that is progressive speak and is illustrative of the inroads that satanic ideology has made into our church.
I find it strange how people will take emblems from other faiths that have specific meanings, uses, and history and then act as though they are magically devoid of all those properties because that person has made up their own subjective definition of said stolen symbol.
Your subjective description of what the cross means to you is the very definition of an idol. It is a man-made representation of God. We have become so ignorant of history and christian theology that we often don't understand what we are doing, just like the ancient Israelites didn't understand the full measure of what they were doing when they needed a man made representation of God.
I would never wear the cross, because I understand how it came to be, its history, and how God has felt about idols throughout Judeo-christian history. But to most, that is all irrelevant and all that matters is how they feel about it.
Post by Reluctant Watchman »
Your right! Along with homosexuality being a sin! Guess they were equally unimportant!Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 3rd, 2022, 12:59 pmI actually think this was removed from the FSoY pamphlet. Bring on the arm sleeve!!
Post by CuriousThinker »
You and I clearly differ on what an idol is. If a reminder of your relationship with Christ is an idol then so are ctr rings and YW medallions. They represent faith.Serragon wrote: ↑October 3rd, 2022, 12:37 pmThanks for sharing what the cross subjectively means to you.CuriousThinker wrote: ↑October 3rd, 2022, 12:08 pmI have never heard of anyone worshipping the cross, though I am sure they are out there. When I wear mine it is a reminder of who I represent and what I stand for. It represents the Savior and his sacrifice for me and my taking up the cross as he told us all too. If others do something crazy I don't think it means I should stop when I am not doing it crazy too. Wearing a cross is not the same as worshipping. Just like I wear garments, but I don't worship them.Serragon wrote: ↑October 3rd, 2022, 11:40 amThere is a fundamental difference between an object that to the vast majority of the Christian world represents Christ Himself and is often worshipped vicariously and an object that is meant to remind you to make good choices.CuriousThinker wrote: ↑October 3rd, 2022, 11:03 am
How did you feel about YW medallions, CTR rings, and now the emblems of belonging that they give to Primary kids turning 8?
And "Emblems of Belonging" makes me want to puke as that is progressive speak and is illustrative of the inroads that satanic ideology has made into our church.
I find it strange how people will take emblems from other faiths that have specific meanings, uses, and history and then act as though they are magically devoid of all those properties because that person has made up their own subjective definition of said stolen symbol.
Your subjective description of what the cross means to you is the very definition of an idol. It is a man-made representation of God. We have become so ignorant of history and christian theology that we often don't understand what we are doing, just like the ancient Israelites didn't understand the full measure of what they were doing when they needed a man made representation of God.
I would never wear the cross, because I understand how it came to be, its history, and how God has felt about idols throughout Judeo-christian history. But to most, that is all irrelevant and all that matters is how they feel about it.
Post by Subcomandante »
Both of you misrepresent what was written in the pamphlet.Mamabear wrote: ↑October 3rd, 2022, 1:23 pmYour right! Along with homosexuality being a sin! Guess they were equally unimportant!Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑October 3rd, 2022, 12:59 pmI actually think this was removed from the FSoY pamphlet. Bring on the arm sleeve!!
Post by blitzinstripes »
Post by CuriousThinker »
Post by largerthanlife2 »
I proudly wear a blue or purple shirt every week to church. I sit in the front row so everyone knows it is just fine to wear colored shirts.Mamabear wrote: ↑October 3rd, 2022, 12:11 pm Don’t wear a colored shirt if you’re a guy at church! Don’t get tattoos! Don’t wear more than one pair of earrings! Don’t wear a cross! Don’t show your shoulders! Don’t have a beard! Wear your garments!
None of it matters. I find it ironic that the scriptures warn against fine apparel and the leaders ignore that one and everbawdy running around in expensive suits!
We are temples of God made without hands where His Spirit may dwell. How about caring about that? Who cares about what we wear!
If I was still attending church I would buy the biggest cross and wear it every Sunday.
This has me thinking. Are we strong enough to to stand in front of an enemy army and wear our kippah or cross? Will we be able to stand firm in our beliefs, even if doing so will bring about our death?AkalAish wrote: ↑October 3rd, 2022, 10:05 pm Identity is a powerful thing. When we wear something...anything, really, but especially things of a religious nature...we are making a statement about identity.
When people see me wearing a kippah or tzitzit, they automatically have an idea (for good, ill, or somewhere in between) of who I am and for what I stand.
I appreciate this conversation, because I think it speaks to deeper ontological themes. The worn item becomes a bearer of perceived identity. It reveals to those who see it where we stand.
There is a phrase that often adorns the Aron HaKodesh (the Holy Ark) in synagogues wherein the Torah scrolls are kept. It says this...
דע לפני מי אתה עומד
Da lifnei mi atah omed.
Know before Whom you stand.
It is important to realize, I believe, our place before the Sovereign of the Universe.
What the world thinks of this is largely beyond our control. What we wear suggests to the world what we wish them to know about where we stand.
It is easy for us, sitting in the comfort of our own societal acceptance, to say emphatically, "Yes!" Of course I would be willing to...even unto death. For many who are faced with the actuality of it...if we are intellectually honest...it is more of a mental struggle. Still, I would like to say that I would stand firm. Hopefully I will not have to find out.Momma J wrote: ↑October 4th, 2022, 9:31 amThis has me thinking. Are we strong enough to to stand in front of an enemy army and wear our kippah or cross? Will we be able to stand firm in our beliefs, even if doing so will bring about our death?AkalAish wrote: ↑October 3rd, 2022, 10:05 pm Identity is a powerful thing. When we wear something...anything, really, but especially things of a religious nature...we are making a statement about identity.
When people see me wearing a kippah or tzitzit, they automatically have an idea (for good, ill, or somewhere in between) of who I am and for what I stand.
I appreciate this conversation, because I think it speaks to deeper ontological themes. The worn item becomes a bearer of perceived identity. It reveals to those who see it where we stand.
There is a phrase that often adorns the Aron HaKodesh (the Holy Ark) in synagogues wherein the Torah scrolls are kept. It says this...
דע לפני מי אתה עומד
Da lifnei mi atah omed.
Know before Whom you stand.
It is important to realize, I believe, our place before the Sovereign of the Universe.
What the world thinks of this is largely beyond our control. What we wear suggests to the world what we wish them to know about where we stand.
I believe that I am strong enough to stand for my beliefs. Yet, I am reminded that Peter denied knowing Jesus three times.AkalAish wrote: ↑October 4th, 2022, 9:56 amIt is easy for us, sitting in the comfort of our own societal acceptance, to say emphatically, "Yes!" Of course I would be willing to...even unto death. For many who are faced with the actuality of it...if we are intellectually honest...it is more of a mental struggle. Still, I would like to say that I would stand firm. Hopefully I will not have to find out.
The Atonement didn't happen on the cross.blitzinstripes wrote: ↑October 3rd, 2022, 6:03 pm I love the sacred and beautiful symbolism of the cross which reminds me daily of my Lord's atonement. I've never understood the animosity displayed by the LDS church toward that symbol.
In truth and deed I consider myself first and foremost a CHRISTIAN. I am far less concerned with any form of religious identity beyond that. Christ is coming back for his people. Some of them will be LDS, many of them will not be.
Post by John Tavner »
Much of it did. Mormon's don't understand the full scope of atonement and we think it all happened in the garden, that it all happened in the Garden is an incorrect understanding.Niyr wrote: ↑October 4th, 2022, 12:15 pmThe Atonement didn't happen on the cross.blitzinstripes wrote: ↑October 3rd, 2022, 6:03 pm I love the sacred and beautiful symbolism of the cross which reminds me daily of my Lord's atonement. I've never understood the animosity displayed by the LDS church toward that symbol.
In truth and deed I consider myself first and foremost a CHRISTIAN. I am far less concerned with any form of religious identity beyond that. Christ is coming back for his people. Some of them will be LDS, many of them will not be.
Post by CuriousThinker »
Many scriptures, including the Book of Mormon, specifically mention the cross as being part of the Atonement. I don't know why we don't understand that better as members.John Tavner wrote: ↑October 4th, 2022, 12:40 pmMuch of it did. Mormon's don't understand the full scope of atonement and we think it all happened in the garden, that it all happened in the Garden is an incorrect understanding.Niyr wrote: ↑October 4th, 2022, 12:15 pmThe Atonement didn't happen on the cross.blitzinstripes wrote: ↑October 3rd, 2022, 6:03 pm I love the sacred and beautiful symbolism of the cross which reminds me daily of my Lord's atonement. I've never understood the animosity displayed by the LDS church toward that symbol.
In truth and deed I consider myself first and foremost a CHRISTIAN. I am far less concerned with any form of religious identity beyond that. Christ is coming back for his people. Some of them will be LDS, many of them will not be.
Post by blitzinstripes »
Part of it certainly did. Jesus had to become a literal blood sacrifice and die. That happened on the cross. The atonement was not completed in Gethsemane. It was begun there. Christ himself declared it complete only after he had also hung and suffered the physical anguish of the cross and was ready to offer up his Spirit at that time. It's frustrating to always hear the LDS church downplaying the crucifixion. It shows an utter lack of understanding of the law of sacrifice. Torture, anguish, and prolonged suffering were not the hallmarks of blood sacrifice from Adam to Moses and up until Christ. But the actual slaying of the sacrificial animal WAS.Niyr wrote: ↑October 4th, 2022, 12:15 pmThe Atonement didn't happen on the cross.blitzinstripes wrote: ↑October 3rd, 2022, 6:03 pm I love the sacred and beautiful symbolism of the cross which reminds me daily of my Lord's atonement. I've never understood the animosity displayed by the LDS church toward that symbol.
In truth and deed I consider myself first and foremost a CHRISTIAN. I am far less concerned with any form of religious identity beyond that. Christ is coming back for his people. Some of them will be LDS, many of them will not be.
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