Autism Spectrum Disorder
- AkalAish
- captain of 100
- Posts: 104
- Location: Alaska
Autism Spectrum Disorder
Shalom!
I know there has been at least one thread started (my time here has been short) on Autism, but I would like to try something different here if you are willing to humor me.
This is a thread for those on the spectrum, or for those who have questions or observations for those on the spectrum.
Please do not make this an ugly thread. This is meant to be a warm and welcoming place for folks such as myself who are (afflicted, blessed, cursed, rejoicing, fill-in-the-blank) have been diagnosed with ASD.
I am hopeful, G-d willing, that this will be a sanctuary to assist and guide those who need a friend and place to speak.
May Adonai bless and keep you, always.
I know there has been at least one thread started (my time here has been short) on Autism, but I would like to try something different here if you are willing to humor me.
This is a thread for those on the spectrum, or for those who have questions or observations for those on the spectrum.
Please do not make this an ugly thread. This is meant to be a warm and welcoming place for folks such as myself who are (afflicted, blessed, cursed, rejoicing, fill-in-the-blank) have been diagnosed with ASD.
I am hopeful, G-d willing, that this will be a sanctuary to assist and guide those who need a friend and place to speak.
May Adonai bless and keep you, always.
- FoxMammaWisdom
- The Heretic
- Posts: 3796
- Location: I think and I know things.
Re: Autism Spectrum Disorder
I would LOVE to see a list of neurodivergent talents people here have, that are not found in the non-neurodivergent population.
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- AkalAish
- captain of 100
- Posts: 104
- Location: Alaska
Re: Autism Spectrum Disorder
I suppose it would depend largely on your definition of talent...
My wife tells me Autism is my superpower.
I do not often agree, but I love her and I know she has my well-being at heart. Thank you for posting!!
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- captain of 1,000
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Re: Autism Spectrum Disorder
Thinking, thinking, thinking… or maybe that’s overthinking, overthinking, overthinking…lol
- Fred
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 7789
- Location: Zion
Re: Autism Spectrum Disorder
My daughter is on the spectrum. She is highly literate. Never misspells a word and corrects me on my grammar. She is an incredibly dedicated employee. She is always early for work. She is smart. If I tell her how something works, she gets it. The first time. One might never know she was affected. But she can get stressed out by the littlest damn thing. One day she got a letter from the government that said she had to reply by that day. Not possible as they wanted some documents that had to be signed by other people. I had to explain that in order to get a government job, one must prove they are incredibly stupid and so just ignore it. She wasn't about to ignore it so was stewing on it and I said well just call the number and tell them they are stupid. She did call the number but she left out the part about their being stupid.
- AkalAish
- captain of 100
- Posts: 104
- Location: Alaska
Re: Autism Spectrum Disorder
Dr. Stephen Shore once said, "When you meet one person with Autism, you've met one person with Autism."
There are certain characteristics that I would say bear common fruit in those on the spectrum, but there are so many differences that it is not always easy to define. This can and does lead to stereotypes.
"Everyone with Autism is good with numbers." Oy gevalt. Not me, that is for sure. This is also in part because I have synesthesia, which is more prevalent in those on the spectrum. The numbers have to be the right colors, or I simply cannot stand them being together.
P.S. I do not like that quote as it stands, because Dr. Shore uses a contraction. I cannot abide contractions in most situations.
There are certain characteristics that I would say bear common fruit in those on the spectrum, but there are so many differences that it is not always easy to define. This can and does lead to stereotypes.
"Everyone with Autism is good with numbers." Oy gevalt. Not me, that is for sure. This is also in part because I have synesthesia, which is more prevalent in those on the spectrum. The numbers have to be the right colors, or I simply cannot stand them being together.
P.S. I do not like that quote as it stands, because Dr. Shore uses a contraction. I cannot abide contractions in most situations.
- FoxMammaWisdom
- The Heretic
- Posts: 3796
- Location: I think and I know things.
Re: Autism Spectrum Disorder
I'm so glad you started the thread! Autism and all neurodivergent brains are HIGHLY misunderstood. I really want to help correct that!
I bet your wife is not expecting you to mask and loves the things that make your brain different - NOT disabled or mentally ill as neurodiverse people have been "classified".
https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-ne ... nt-5196627
Here's a talent many neurodiverse people have: My brain can process like 50,000 ideas/thoughts/songs/images/etc. at a time, separately and simultaneously, and also map out the connections between all of them - where a non-divergent brain processes only one idea/thought at a time and has to jump quickly from idea to idea.
A drawback to that talent: It's extremely mentally (and otherwise) exhausting, can be overwhelming (which can lead to uncomfortable social or work situations), sometimes I need a minute to scroll through 50,000x the information - and this can lead to me appearing "slow" when answering questions or in normal conversation, it can lead to indecision when so many more thought options are available, makes "regular" conversation extremely tedious and boring sometimes, can be frustrating to try to communicate large complex ideas to others without drawing a bunch of pictures and maps and charts, etc.
- FoxMammaWisdom
- The Heretic
- Posts: 3796
- Location: I think and I know things.
- AkalAish
- captain of 100
- Posts: 104
- Location: Alaska
Re: Autism Spectrum Disorder
Bless you for this!Jules wrote: ↑October 3rd, 2022, 10:30 pmI'm so glad you started the thread! Autism and all neurodivergent brains are HIGHLY misunderstood. I really want to help correct that!
I bet your wife is not expecting you to mask and loves the things that make your brain different - NOT disabled or mentally ill as neurodiverse people have been "classified".
https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-ne ... nt-5196627
Here's a talent many neurodiverse people have: My brain can process like 50,000 ideas/thoughts/songs/images/etc. at a time, separately and simultaneously, and also map out the connections between all of them - where a non-divergent brain processes only one idea/thought at a time and has to jump quickly from idea to idea.
A drawback to that talent: It's extremely mentally (and otherwise) exhausting, can be overwhelming (which can lead to uncomfortable social or work situations), sometimes I need a minute to scroll through 50,000x the information - and this can lead to me appearing "slow" when answering questions or in normal conversation, it can lead to indecision when so many more thought options are available, makes "regular" conversation extremely tedious and boring sometimes, can be frustrating to try to communicate large complex ideas to others without drawing a bunch of pictures and maps and charts, etc.
My wife does NOT expect me to mask...most of the time. I think when we were in our first year of marriage, it was not what she expected. For the first time in my life, I felt comfortable enough to show myself...ALL myself...to her. This was a shock. This was not what she was expecting. I think the person with whom she fell in love was not the person she came to know...
...BUT...
...she will now tell you that she loves who I am...the me within the me...so much more than she ever thought possible and definitely more than the person with whom she originally fell in love.
I think it has been a struggle for her to love all the parts of me equally, and I am certain she still wrestles with the more difficult parts, but I am so grateful for her love and support. I do not often see what I have to offer...the gifts that I bring to our marriage...but she is always quick to show me lovingly that I see the world in a different and beautiful way that astonishes and moves her to compassion and love.
I KNOW it is not easy to live with me. It is not easy for me to live with me.
Much like you...I process so many things at once. It. Can. Be. Exhausting. Especially when I am trying to figure out a person or an emotion or a situation or a conversation or body language or humor or...............
My wife calls it my "radar." She can tell that I am searching faces, trying desperately to make sense of what seems to me chaos.
I have synesthesia, so everything "emotional" is filtered through color for me. Color, words, sounds, pictures...they are all mixed up and interconnected in my brain. If I do not like the "color" of certain numbers together in an address on the side of a building, for example, I will not enter.
And then there are the fixations...they change, of course, but they are ever-present. A common one is words. Words with "good" colors, such as oak or ranunculus. I tend to imagine myself "inside" the words. It calls the chaos.
I also tend to understand how things work by observing them. This is especially true with anatomy. I love medical stuff! Why did I not become a doctor....? Math.
People are an enigma. I often say (rudely, I might add) that I love people...but I do not like them very much. I prefer solitude. This is not easy when you are a rabbi as well as a public educator of children. Still...
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- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1251
Re: Autism Spectrum Disorder
How do I explain this…
With people on the spectrum everything seems to be either amplified or extremely dulled. There doesn’t seem to be as much of a balance as with people who are labeled as neurotypical.
I agree with Dr Shore’s statement that one person with Autism is not like the other because everyone is different in the respect that they are an individual that inherit their individual intellect and characteristics from their progenitors, but like I said, people on the spectrum seem to be amplified or dulled in some respect…to whatever their talents allow.
I also do not think Autism is the same as Asperger’s…just to clarify where I am coming from…but that might be because they’ve changed the definitions so much as the spectrum has seemed to progress or regress…
I didn’t understand synesthesia growing up but I saw in patterns and colors as well. All my numbers were associated with colors and I dreamed very vividly in shapes and textures. I can remember feeling the weight of the shapes on me as I dreamt of them. My son told me he used to have dreams like this also. He also had night terrors and I used to sleep walk and talk all the time. I’m not sure if this is an ASD thing but it sure runs in my family.
And definitely regulating emotions appropriately is something that seems to be a struggle with ASD, as with Fred’s comment about his daughters anxiety over something that didn’t bother him but it did her.
And with ASD a lot of thinking about what one might say BEFORE it is said doesn’t happen unless one is taught that tool. There is not much of a filter until AFTER…then it might be too late to recover what was said.
Meltdowns are the daily norm at times for my kids and triggers are too. We just get used to it and have to work over and over until it becomes ingrained.
Oh and stimming…ya, lots of stimming…
Anyway, just some thoughts.
With people on the spectrum everything seems to be either amplified or extremely dulled. There doesn’t seem to be as much of a balance as with people who are labeled as neurotypical.
I agree with Dr Shore’s statement that one person with Autism is not like the other because everyone is different in the respect that they are an individual that inherit their individual intellect and characteristics from their progenitors, but like I said, people on the spectrum seem to be amplified or dulled in some respect…to whatever their talents allow.
I also do not think Autism is the same as Asperger’s…just to clarify where I am coming from…but that might be because they’ve changed the definitions so much as the spectrum has seemed to progress or regress…
I didn’t understand synesthesia growing up but I saw in patterns and colors as well. All my numbers were associated with colors and I dreamed very vividly in shapes and textures. I can remember feeling the weight of the shapes on me as I dreamt of them. My son told me he used to have dreams like this also. He also had night terrors and I used to sleep walk and talk all the time. I’m not sure if this is an ASD thing but it sure runs in my family.
And definitely regulating emotions appropriately is something that seems to be a struggle with ASD, as with Fred’s comment about his daughters anxiety over something that didn’t bother him but it did her.
And with ASD a lot of thinking about what one might say BEFORE it is said doesn’t happen unless one is taught that tool. There is not much of a filter until AFTER…then it might be too late to recover what was said.
Meltdowns are the daily norm at times for my kids and triggers are too. We just get used to it and have to work over and over until it becomes ingrained.
Oh and stimming…ya, lots of stimming…
Anyway, just some thoughts.
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- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1251
Re: Autism Spectrum Disorder
Oh boy, I agree with so much of what you and Jules said. I’m too exhausted to respond to it all. But man I love this thread!AkalAish wrote: ↑October 3rd, 2022, 10:45 pmBless you for this!Jules wrote: ↑October 3rd, 2022, 10:30 pmI'm so glad you started the thread! Autism and all neurodivergent brains are HIGHLY misunderstood. I really want to help correct that!
I bet your wife is not expecting you to mask and loves the things that make your brain different - NOT disabled or mentally ill as neurodiverse people have been "classified".
https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-ne ... nt-5196627
Here's a talent many neurodiverse people have: My brain can process like 50,000 ideas/thoughts/songs/images/etc. at a time, separately and simultaneously, and also map out the connections between all of them - where a non-divergent brain processes only one idea/thought at a time and has to jump quickly from idea to idea.
A drawback to that talent: It's extremely mentally (and otherwise) exhausting, can be overwhelming (which can lead to uncomfortable social or work situations), sometimes I need a minute to scroll through 50,000x the information - and this can lead to me appearing "slow" when answering questions or in normal conversation, it can lead to indecision when so many more thought options are available, makes "regular" conversation extremely tedious and boring sometimes, can be frustrating to try to communicate large complex ideas to others without drawing a bunch of pictures and maps and charts, etc.
My wife does NOT expect me to mask...most of the time. I think when we were in our first year of marriage, it was not what she expected. For the first time in my life, I felt comfortable enough to show myself...ALL myself...to her. This was a shock. This was not what she was expecting. I think the person with whom she fell in love was not the person she came to know...
...BUT...
...she will now tell you that she loves who I am...the me within the me...so much more than she ever thought possible and definitely more than the person with whom she originally fell in love.
I think it has been a struggle for her to love all the parts of me equally, and I am certain she still wrestles with the more difficult parts, but I am so grateful for her love and support. I do not often see what I have to offer...the gifts that I bring to our marriage...but she is always quick to show me lovingly that I see the world in a different and beautiful way that astonishes and moves her to compassion and love.
I KNOW it is not easy to live with me. It is not easy for me to live with me.
Much like you...I process so many things at once. It. Can. Be. Exhausting. Especially when I am trying to figure out a person or an emotion or a situation or a conversation or body language or humor or...............
My wife calls it my "radar." She can tell that I am searching faces, trying desperately to make sense of what seems to me chaos.
I have synesthesia, so everything "emotional" is filtered through color for me. Color, words, sounds, pictures...they are all mixed up and interconnected in my brain. If I do not like the "color" of certain numbers together in an address on the side of a building, for example, I will not enter.
And then there are the fixations...they change, of course, but they are ever-present. A common one is words. Words with "good" colors, such as oak or ranunculus. I tend to imagine myself "inside" the words. It calls the chaos.
I also tend to understand how things work by observing them. This is especially true with anatomy. I love medical stuff! Why did I not become a doctor....? Math.
People are an enigma. I often say (rudely, I might add) that I love people...but I do not like them very much. I prefer solitude. This is not easy when you are a rabbi as well as a public educator of children. Still...
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- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1251
Re: Autism Spectrum Disorder
The mapping is so true. I could never put a name to it but I always said to my husband…if I could just get my words out of the way and show him the picture it would be a lot easier to understand.Jules wrote: ↑October 3rd, 2022, 10:30 pmI'm so glad you started the thread! Autism and all neurodivergent brains are HIGHLY misunderstood. I really want to help correct that!
I bet your wife is not expecting you to mask and loves the things that make your brain different - NOT disabled or mentally ill as neurodiverse people have been "classified".
https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-ne ... nt-5196627
Here's a talent many neurodiverse people have: My brain can process like 50,000 ideas/thoughts/songs/images/etc. at a time, separately and simultaneously, and also map out the connections between all of them - where a non-divergent brain processes only one idea/thought at a time and has to jump quickly from idea to idea.
A drawback to that talent: It's extremely mentally (and otherwise) exhausting, can be overwhelming (which can lead to uncomfortable social or work situations), sometimes I need a minute to scroll through 50,000x the information - and this can lead to me appearing "slow" when answering questions or in normal conversation, it can lead to indecision when so many more thought options are available, makes "regular" conversation extremely tedious and boring sometimes, can be frustrating to try to communicate large complex ideas to others without drawing a bunch of pictures and maps and charts, etc.
- Robin Hood
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 13159
- Location: England
Re: Autism Spectrum Disorder
I'm not autistic but my 31 year old daughter is, so I have a significant understanding of the challenges, both for the individual and for those around them.
Additionally, my grandson in Canada has recently been diagnosed as autistic. He is also profoundly deaf.
I hope I can make some useful contributions to the thread.
Additionally, my grandson in Canada has recently been diagnosed as autistic. He is also profoundly deaf.
I hope I can make some useful contributions to the thread.
- MikeMaillet
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1728
- Location: Ingleside, Ontario
Re: Autism Spectrum Disorder
I have a 13 year old grand-son who is mildly autistic and he reminds me very much of myself when I was younger. I had issues with social behaviour that led to my having a somewhat lonely childhood. I'm reasonably intelligent and have learned how to behave properly but it was/is not an easy task. There is one plant that works marvels for me but that is a topic for another discussion. I have worked with several youth at church who were autistic and have learned much from their parents.
I am grateful to have married an angel who has shown a great deal of patience with me.
Mike Maillet
Ingleside, Ontario
I am grateful to have married an angel who has shown a great deal of patience with me.
Mike Maillet
Ingleside, Ontario
- Niemand
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 14232
Re: Autism Spectrum Disorder
There is some prejudice about it here. However, some posters are autistic or have autistic family. Others are friends with them.
Autistic people are actually one of the most picked on groups in society and have been discriminated against for decades, maybe centuries. Most of the discriminator may not know that the person is autistic. Unemployment and suicide rates among autistic people are horrific because of the bigotry they have to put up with.
We have a number of autistic people in my ward (some are undiagnosed and maybe even unaware of it). There is a teenage boy who is mildly autistic and I've had to warn people about making nasty comments about him.
Autistic people are actually one of the most picked on groups in society and have been discriminated against for decades, maybe centuries. Most of the discriminator may not know that the person is autistic. Unemployment and suicide rates among autistic people are horrific because of the bigotry they have to put up with.
We have a number of autistic people in my ward (some are undiagnosed and maybe even unaware of it). There is a teenage boy who is mildly autistic and I've had to warn people about making nasty comments about him.
Last edited by Niemand on October 4th, 2022, 5:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Jonesy
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Re: Autism Spectrum Disorder
I don’t know if this counts, but I’m neurodivergently cursed with misophonia. So, there’s definitely an element of the social aspect that is incredibly difficult to endure and control at times—makes me feel like a psychopath. I feel more sorry for my family that has to deal with me abruptly excusing myself or acting rashly, constantly having to say you didn’t do anything wrong—it’s me. I can mostly control my behavior— but it can be taxing. Heaven is a life without this malady. Maybe somebody here has it and doesn’t know it.
- Niemand
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Re: Autism Spectrum Disorder
That's very common. I'm in a room with a ticking clock and it doesn't bother me. But I know people it would. On the other hand, if there are people having multiple conversations around me I find I can't shut them all out.Jonesy wrote: ↑October 4th, 2022, 5:49 am I don’t know if this counts, but I’m neurodivergently cursed with misophonia. So, there’s definitely an element of the social aspect that is incredibly difficult to endure and control at times—makes me feel like a psychopath. I feel more sorry for my family that has to deal with me abruptly excusing myself or acting rashly, constantly having to say you didn’t do anything wrong—it’s me. I can mostly control my behavior— but it can be taxing. Heaven is a life without this malady. Maybe somebody here has it and doesn’t know it.
- Niemand
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- Posts: 14232
Re: Autism Spectrum Disorder
Well as I've said elsewhere, Asperger's no longer exists officially. There are various reasons for that but it's still in the pop culture.FoundMyEden wrote: ↑October 3rd, 2022, 11:22 pm I also do not think Autism is the same as Asperger’s…just to clarify where I am coming from…
I was discussing this with a friend recently who was diagnosed with Asperger's many years ago. He tells me even the ASD label is out of the window now.
- Jonesy
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Re: Autism Spectrum Disorder
Very true. Many times I have to distinguish that I completely understand the difference between being annoyed and having misophonia. With misophonia I mentally black out with rage or have to leave immediately; sometimes mimicking helps, but that doesn’t help with the optics of it all. Sometimes humming or heavy breathing helps me (along with listening via bone conduction), but again it just makes me look crazy Lol. And it is crazy!Niemand wrote: ↑October 4th, 2022, 5:51 amThat's very common. I'm in a room with a ticking clock and it doesn't bother me. But I know people it would. On the other hand, if there are people having multiple conversations around me I find I can't shut them all out.Jonesy wrote: ↑October 4th, 2022, 5:49 am I don’t know if this counts, but I’m neurodivergently cursed with misophonia. So, there’s definitely an element of the social aspect that is incredibly difficult to endure and control at times—makes me feel like a psychopath. I feel more sorry for my family that has to deal with me abruptly excusing myself or acting rashly, constantly having to say you didn’t do anything wrong—it’s me. I can mostly control my behavior— but it can be taxing. Heaven is a life without this malady. Maybe somebody here has it and doesn’t know it.
- Niemand
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- Posts: 14232
Re: Autism Spectrum Disorder
I know people who have all kinds of triggers that way. I was staying in a hostel the other day and there were some Indian people eating very noisily with their mouths open. That doesn't bother me too much but I know some people who go crazy about that.Jonesy wrote: ↑October 4th, 2022, 6:01 amVery true. Many times I have to distinguish that I completely understand the difference between being annoyed and having misophonia. With misophonia I mentally black out with rage or have to leave immediately; sometimes mimicking helps, but that doesn’t help with the optics of it all. Sometimes humming or heavy breathing helps me (along with listening with bone conduction), but again it just makes me look crazy Lol. And it is crazy!
- AkalAish
- captain of 100
- Posts: 104
- Location: Alaska
Re: Autism Spectrum Disorder
I harbor no doubts as to your ability to contribute great things to this thread. Welcome aboard, friend.Robin Hood wrote: ↑October 4th, 2022, 12:09 am I'm not autistic but my 31 year old daughter is, so I have a significant understanding of the challenges, both for the individual and for those around them.
Additionally, my grandson in Canada has recently been diagnosed as autistic. He is also profoundly deaf.
I hope I can make some useful contributions to the thread.
- AkalAish
- captain of 100
- Posts: 104
- Location: Alaska
Re: Autism Spectrum Disorder
Prejudice is strong toward people on the spectrum, but I think that is changing with time and education.Niemand wrote: ↑October 4th, 2022, 5:47 am There is some prejudice about it here. However, some posters are autistic or have autistic family. Others are friends with them.
Autistic people are actually one of the most picked on groups in society and have been discriminated against for decades, maybe centuries. Most of the discriminator may not know that the person is autistic. Unemployment and suicide rates among autistic people are horrific because of the bigotry they have to put up with.
We have a number of autistic people in my ward (some are undiagnosed and maybe even unaware of it). There is a teenage boy who is mildly autistic and I've had to warn people about making nasty comments about him.
The other problem that I have seen creeping into this "woke" generation is the "cool" factor or autism. It seems to be that everyone who is mildly unusual is labeled (or self-labels) with the term autistic. This is hurtful in many respects (at least it is to me) to those of us who are actually on the spectrum. It becomes a fad and not a real condition with which many struggle daily.
- AkalAish
- captain of 100
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- Location: Alaska
Re: Autism Spectrum Disorder
It is very, very difficult for me to focus on a single conversation in a room full of people talking. I have become somewhat better at it over time, but I feel quite often stuck and, in turn, panicky when there is a big crowd or a lot of things/conversations/movement around me.Niemand wrote: ↑October 4th, 2022, 5:51 amThat's very common. I'm in a room with a ticking clock and it doesn't bother me. But I know people it would. On the other hand, if there are people having multiple conversations around me I find I can't shut them all out.Jonesy wrote: ↑October 4th, 2022, 5:49 am I don’t know if this counts, but I’m neurodivergently cursed with misophonia. So, there’s definitely an element of the social aspect that is incredibly difficult to endure and control at times—makes me feel like a psychopath. I feel more sorry for my family that has to deal with me abruptly excusing myself or acting rashly, constantly having to say you didn’t do anything wrong—it’s me. I can mostly control my behavior— but it can be taxing. Heaven is a life without this malady. Maybe somebody here has it and doesn’t know it.
- AkalAish
- captain of 100
- Posts: 104
- Location: Alaska
Re: Autism Spectrum Disorder
This bothers me greatly. The difference in my adult self and the self of my youth is that I would not have thought twice about walking up and telling them that the way they were eating bothered me and would they be willing to stop or go somewhere else.Niemand wrote: ↑October 4th, 2022, 6:05 amI know people who have all kinds of triggers that way. I was staying in a hostel the other day and there were some Indian people eating very noisily with their mouths open. That doesn't bother me too much but I know some people who go crazy about that.Jonesy wrote: ↑October 4th, 2022, 6:01 amVery true. Many times I have to distinguish that I completely understand the difference between being annoyed and having misophonia. With misophonia I mentally black out with rage or have to leave immediately; sometimes mimicking helps, but that doesn’t help with the optics of it all. Sometimes humming or heavy breathing helps me (along with listening with bone conduction), but again it just makes me look crazy Lol. And it is crazy!