Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Silver Pie wrote: September 25th, 2022, 4:15 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 25th, 2022, 3:56 pm So what do you believe constitutes “doctrine”?
This is what I believe. My definition comes from what Nephi said (2 Nephi 31), according to what the Heavens told him, not from a dictionary. Note that one must press forward, feasting upon the words of Christ, and endure to the end, so there is more to do, but there is only one doctrine. Nephi plainly said so.



Wherefore, the things which I have written sufficeth me, save it be a few words which I must speak concerning the doctrine of Christ; wherefore, I shall speak unto you plainly, according to the plainness of my prophesying. For my soul delighteth in plainness; for after this manner doth the Lord God work among the children of men. For the Lord God giveth light unto the understanding; for he speaketh unto men according to their language, unto their understanding.

Wherefore, I would that ye should remember that I have spoken unto you concerning that prophet which the Lord showed unto me, that should baptize the Lamb of God, which should take away the sins of the world. And now, if the Lamb of God, he being holy, should have need to be baptized by water, to fulfil all righteousness, O then, how much more need have we, being unholy, to be baptized, yea, even by water! And now, I would ask of you, my beloved brethren, wherein the Lamb of God did fulfil all righteousness in being baptized by water? Know ye not that he was holy? But notwithstanding he being holy, he showeth unto the children of men that, according to the flesh he humbleth himself before the Father, and witnesseth unto the Father that he would be obedient unto him in keeping his commandments. Wherefore, after he was baptized with water the Holy Ghost descended upon him in the form of a dove.

And again, it showeth unto the children of men the straitness of the path, and the narrowness of the gate, by which they should enter, he having set the example before them. And he said unto the children of men: Follow thou me. Wherefore, my beloved brethren, can we follow Jesus save we shall be willing to keep the commandments of the Father? And the Father said: Repent ye, repent ye, and be baptized in the name of my Beloved Son. And also, the voice of the Son came unto me, saying: He that is baptized in my name, to him will the Father give the Holy Ghost, like unto me; wherefore, follow me, and do the things which ye have seen me do.

Wherefore, my beloved brethren, I know that if ye shall follow the Son, with full purpose of heart, acting no hypocrisy and no deception before God, but with real intent, repenting of your sins, witnessing unto the Father that ye are willing to take upon you the name of Christ, by baptism—yea, by following your Lord and your Savior down into the water, according to his word, behold, then shall ye receive the Holy Ghost; yea, then cometh the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost; and then can ye speak with the tongue of angels, and shout praises unto the Holy One of Israel.

But, behold, my beloved brethren, thus came the voice of the Son unto me, saying: After ye have repented of your sins, and witnessed unto the Father that ye are willing to keep my commandments, by the baptism of water, and have received the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost, and can speak with a new tongue, yea, even with the tongue of angels, and after this should deny me, it would have been better for you that ye had not known me. And I heard a voice from the Father, saying: Yea, the words of my Beloved are true and faithful. He that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.

And now, my beloved brethren, I know by this that unless a man shall endure to the end, in following the example of the Son of the living God, he cannot be saved. Wherefore, do the things which I have told you I have seen that your Lord and your Redeemer should do; for, for this cause have they been shown unto me, that ye might know the gate by which ye should enter. For the gate by which ye should enter is repentance and baptism by water; and then cometh a remission of your sins by fire and by the Holy Ghost. And then are ye in this strait and narrow path which leads to eternal life; yea, ye have entered in by the gate; ye have done according to the commandments of the Father and the Son; and ye have received the Holy Ghost, which witnesses of the Father and the Son, unto the fulfilling of the promise which he hath made, that if ye entered in by the way ye should receive.

And now, my beloved brethren, after ye have gotten into this strait and narrow path, I would ask if all is done? Behold, I say unto you, Nay; for ye have not come thus far save it were by the word of Christ with unshaken faith in him, relying wholly upon the merits of him who is mighty to save. Wherefore, ye must press forward with a steadfastness in Christ, having a perfect brightness of hope, and a love of God and of all men. Wherefore, if ye shall press forward, feasting upon the word of Christ, and endure to the end, behold, thus saith the Father: Ye shall have eternal life.

And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.
I’m very familiar with 2 Nephi 31. I’d kindly suggest that what he is describing is the foundation. Those who say that this is the ONLY doctrine of Christ is akin to a Bible lover testifying that there is to be no more word of God outside of the Bible.

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Silver Pie
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Silver Pie »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 25th, 2022, 4:18 pm I’m very familiar with 2 Nephi 31. I’d kindly suggest that what he is describing is the foundation. Those who say that this is the ONLY doctrine of Christ is akin to a Bible lover testifying that there is to be no more word of God outside of the Bible.
Nephi plainly says he is speaking plainly, and he plainly says it is "the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost."

That is incredibly plain to me. I've said - twice, I think - that that is not all of everything. It is all the doctrine. That does not mean that more is not required of us as we go along. That does not mean the heavens can't open to us and teach us things that are beyond doctrine. It does not mean that God will not require us to do more. It is not limiting at all.

It is simply the definition of actual and real doctrine according to the Father and the Son. That's a pretty high authority in my book.

The doctrine is the foundation. Stuff beyond that is, from what I read in the scriptures, not doctrine. It has other labels.

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Obeone
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Re: Ephxx

Post by Obeone »

Chip wrote: September 25th, 2022, 2:39 pm In Brigham's time, the entire household of heaven had been recast as polygamist extraordinaires. We don't hear that, nowadays, and polygamists get summarily kicked out of the church.
The doctrine has not changed as far as heaven is concerned. If something is not spoken today, it does not mean it no longer exists.

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FrankOne
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by FrankOne »

In every religion, there is a system of doctrine which the members of those religions don't all agree on from day to day or minute to minute. These doctrines are debated ad nauseum.

What I do know about doctrine is that the harder the stance one takes in doctrine, the more likely they are wrong. The more one energetically argues only demonstrates how weak their own understanding is of the subject. When you know, you know and the truth is peace. When you don't , you doctrine bash.

One observation is that the ancient Jews were so attached to their doctrine that it was all that mattered. Truth didn't matter, the doctrine did. So....they had to kill Christ to justify that they were right.

It is my speculation that the same will occur again.

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Chip
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Re: Ephxx

Post by Chip »

Obeone wrote: September 25th, 2022, 4:57 pm
Chip wrote: September 25th, 2022, 2:39 pm In Brigham's time, the entire household of heaven had been recast as polygamist extraordinaires. We don't hear that, nowadays, and polygamists get summarily kicked out of the church.
The doctrine has not changed as far as heaven is concerned. If something is not spoken today, it does not mean it no longer exists.

Maybe Daniel in the lion's den, Meshak, Shadrak, and Imbednigo were are all actually on trial for polygamy. I mean, because polygamy was SO important in all the scriptures and Jesus talked about it, too. Unfortunately, in a grand coup against God, Satan had all the polygamy writing removed from the scriptures, but now we have D&C 132 to reestablish the vitality of this divine doctrine.

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Obeone
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Re: Ephxx

Post by Obeone »

Chip wrote: September 25th, 2022, 5:18 pm Maybe Daniel in the lion's den, Meshak, Shadrak, and Imbednigo were are all actually on trial for polygamy. I mean, because polygamy was SO important in all the scriptures and Jesus talked about it, too. Unfortunately, in a grand coup against God, Satan had all the polygamy writing removed from the scriptures, but now we have D&C 132 to reestablish the vitality of this divine doctrine.
I am glad you are onboard now. :)

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FrankOne
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Re: Ephxx

Post by FrankOne »

Chip wrote: September 25th, 2022, 5:18 pm
Obeone wrote: September 25th, 2022, 4:57 pm
Chip wrote: September 25th, 2022, 2:39 pm In Brigham's time, the entire household of heaven had been recast as polygamist extraordinaires. We don't hear that, nowadays, and polygamists get summarily kicked out of the church.
The doctrine has not changed as far as heaven is concerned. If something is not spoken today, it does not mean it no longer exists.

Maybe Daniel in the lion's den, Meshak, Shadrak, and Imbednigo were are all actually on trial for polygamy. I mean, because polygamy was SO important in all the scriptures and Jesus talked about it, too. Unfortunately, in a grand coup against God, Satan had all the polygamy writing removed from the scriptures, but now we have D&C 132 to reestablish the vitality of this divine doctrine.
thinking outside the box is always good. I love it, thanks.

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FrankOne
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by FrankOne »

By the way, I still believe that it is likely that Satan is a lesbian or at least bisexual woman. This would answer a wide spectrum of questions/mysteries.

She is the iconic man hater.

Her first trauma was when the Patriarchal Jehovah condemned her. She was the first victim in time.

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Chip
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Chip »

FrankOne wrote: September 25th, 2022, 5:57 pm By the way, I still believe that it is likely that Satan is a lesbian or at least bisexual woman. This would answer a wide spectrum of questions/mysteries.

She is the iconic man hater.

Her first trauma was when the Patriarchal Jehovah condemned her. She was the first victim in time.

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

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Being There
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Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Being There »

Jason wrote: September 25th, 2022, 7:17 am
Being There wrote: September 21st, 2022, 7:19 pm
Jason wrote: September 19th, 2022, 10:30 pm
Being There wrote: September 19th, 2022, 6:58 pm

lol.
talk about Breathtaking nonsense.

Just because God used Joseph Smith - to bring the BoM forward,
that doesn't mean that he's not a fallen prophet;
and that he didn't still possibly fail miserably in his personal life,
or in his responsibilities as a prophet.
Just like failing to establish Zion - as the Lord commanded.
Breathtaking apostasy indeed…

How was it put…Joseph Smith did more than any other person with the exception of Jesus Christ for the salvation of men…if that’s failure…sign me up!!!
truly spoken from the lips of a True Blue Mormon.

just reading that makes me sick !
what blasphemy !

trying to compare JS to our Savior ! -
or at least second to Him.

Mentioning Jesus Christ, and in the same sentence - mentioning JS having to do with our salvation !
How ugly - and sad.
By the way...thank you for the compliment...can't think of a finer one...make my uncle Brigham proud...
proud Gentiles - only they could be so proud.
No wonder why the "proud LDS Gentile church has lost the gospel back to The House of Israel -
because of members like you.
Just like the pride - that destroyed them - those peoples in the Book of Mormon -
who once had the gospel, but then lost it to us - because of their pride -
thinking - like you and many Gentile members in this forum -
"we are the Lord's chosen people - who the Lord restored His gospel through -
don't tell us anything - because we know everything - and will never lose the gospel"

famous last words.

repeating myself for others - others that want truth.

like most members -- (who just blindly follow, instead of really reading and knowing the scriptures)
you still have your head in the sand, because you don't want to see the truth, much less accept it -
that the church has been corrupted, and has fallen into apostasy; just as the scriptures warned it would.
We didn't heed the warnings of the book that was given to us - The Book of Mormon - (a book of warning)
We are repeating their history -
and what happened to them -- and now, has happened to us.
So now, because of our apostasy,
we will lose the gospel - the gospel will be taken from us, and given back to The House of Israel.

The first will be last and the last, first

"At the first, the Jews (in the Book of Mormon vernacular, meaning the house of Israel) were redeemed, then they rejected God and the gospel was taken to the Gentiles. (Acts 10.) In these last days, Joseph Smith restored the gospel among the Gentiles; and when they reject it, it will be taken back to the Jews, and they will be redeemed.
Hence, the first will be last and the last, first."

(1 Ne. 13:42; Jacob 5:63; Ether 13:12; D&C 88:59; Matt. 19:30; 20:8,16.)


"I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them."
The Lord doesn't say if, he says WHEN

10 And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you:
At that day WHEN the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things,
and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father,
I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them.

11 And then will I remember my covenant which I have made unto my people, O house of Israel,
and I will bring my gospel unto them.
12 And I will show unto thee, O house of Israel, that the Gentiles SHALL NOT have POWER over you;
but I will remember my covenant unto you, O house of Israel, and ye shall come unto the knowledge
of the fulness of my gospel.

---------------------------------------------
3 Nephi 21
9 For in that day, for my sake shall the Father work a work, which shall be a great and a marvelous work among them; and there shall be among them those who will not believe it, although a man shall declare it unto them.
10 But behold, the life of my servant shall be in my hand; therefore they shall not hurt him, although he shall be marred because of them. Yet I will heal him, for I will show unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the devil.
11 Therefore it shall come to pass that whosoever will not believe in my words, who am Jesus Christ, which the Father shall cause him to bring forth unto the Gentiles, and shall give unto him power that he shall bring them forth unto the Gentiles, (it shall be done even as Moses said) they shall be cut off from among my people who are of the covenant.

"The great and marvelous work - includes the restoration of the gospel, but that's just the beginning.
Most of the Lord's "great and marvelous work" of which Nephi speaks is still future. - with the entire purpose being -
to restore the Lord's ancient covenant people - The House of Israel.
And the man that shall declare it, (verse 9) is the Lord's end-time servant - the Davidic servant that
"brings forth (these great and marvelous revelations )unto the Gentiles" - being
the words of Christ (the sealed portion) (verse 11) to the church, but they don't believe it (verse 9)
and "he shall be marred because of them" (verse 10) (these words condemn the Lord's people - our church)
And because they reject these new revelations and the words of Christ and His servant,
"(it shall be done even as Moses said) they shall be cut off from among my people who are of the covenant." (verse 11)

quote
"When the Lord's servant comes to us with the words of Christ (sealed portion)
and we reject them, and him, we will have filled the full measure of our iniquity
and the Lord will take the gospel from us, and give it back to the House of Israel.
hence "the first will be last, and last first"
And when that happens, The Times of the Gentiles will be fulfilled.

So great is this challenge, in fact, that many Gentiles will not accept it.
Instead, they will reject the words of Christ, and be "cut off" as
bitter branches, from His people (3 Nephi 21:11"

We Gentiles, and also the entire World, will have two choices when the Davidic King arrives: we will either
(1) harden our hearts to our own condemnation and destruction; or else
(2) we will repent and prepare to join Zion.
There will be a complete division between the righteous and the wicked in that day."
end quote

3 Nephi 21

11 Therefore it shall come to pass that whosoever will not believe in my words, who am Jesus Christ, which the Father shall cause him to bring forth unto the Gentiles, and shall give unto him power that he shall bring them forth unto the Gentiles, (it shall be done even as Moses said) they shall be cut off from among my people who are of the covenant.

quote
"These Gentiles have no charity for their fellow beings.
They don't thank the Jews nor Lehi's descendants for the scriptures they have received from them.
Instead, they curse and hate them and will not recover them.
The Lord lengthens out his arm to the Gentiles all the day long.
But they mar the Lord's servant who brings forth His words.
Their rejecting the Lord's servant and their rejecting the gospel doubly testifies of their apostasy;
Nephi, therefore, offers no hope for the Gentiles unless they reconcile themselves to Christ."

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Jason
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Re: Ephxx

Post by Jason »

InfoWarrior82 wrote: September 25th, 2022, 9:07 am
Jason wrote: September 25th, 2022, 7:06 am
Being There wrote: September 24th, 2022, 5:08 pm
Jason wrote: September 24th, 2022, 3:50 pm

I've been in a couple of bishoprics over my decades in the church
I don't doubt it -
you're quite good at quoting and "parroting" -
like the Q15 - who don't have the spirit, but who are FULL of men's words and their precepts -
parroting and quoting each other all the time - patting each other on the back;
not to mention they don't preach against anything - all the evils in the World that governments
and World and religious leaders (like Nelson) follow, but they have aligned with it.

Like the Q15 - The Drunkards of Ephraim -
I think you fulfill Isaiah 28:9,10 to the tee.

Isaiah 28

7 These too have indulged in wine and are giddy with strong drink:priests and prophets have gone astray through liquor.
They are intoxicated with wine and stagger because of strong drink; they err as seers, they blunder in their decisions.
8 For all tables are filled with vomit; no spot is without excrement.

As the political and ecclesiastical leaderships of Jehovah’s people always appear on a par (Isaiah 3:2-4; 9:14-16; 24:2), so Ephraim’s “fat proud ones” (vv 1, 4) include its “priests,” “prophets,” and “seers” (Isaiah 56:10-12). Intoxicated with the wine of self-deception (v 15), they “stray,” “err,” and “blunder” in their policies. Instead of obtaining revelation from Jehovah (vv 9, 14, 16, 26, 29), they water down his word until it is ineffectual in empowering his people (vv 10-13; Isaiah 32:6). The best their spiritual feasts offer is “vomit”—partly digested food regurgitated for Jehovah’s people to consume.


We are still satisfied with the milk portions - the ABC portions of the gospel.
We will not accept the meat portions of the gospel.

9 Whom shall he give instruction?
Whom shall he enlighten with revelation?
Weanlings weaned from milk,
those just taken from the breast?
10 For it is but line upon line, line upon line,
precept upon precept, precept upon precept;
a trifle here, a trifle there.

Although Jehovah wants to give his people “instruction” and “revelation,” they are but babes and sucklings who haven’t developed far enough to digest more than milk: “Everyone who uses milk is unskillful in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe” (Hebrews 5:13).
Ephraim’s mode of learning is still “line upon line, line upon line, precept upon precept, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little” (saw lasaw saw lasaw qaw laqaw qaw laqaw ze‘ir sam ze‘ir sam).
Assonance and alliteration parody their rote method of learning
that consists of parroting back what their leaders teach.


13 So to them the word of Jehovah remained:
Line upon line, line upon line,
precept upon precept, precept upon precept;
a trifle here, a trifle there, that,
persisting, they might lapse into stumbling
and break themselves,
become ensnared and be taken captive.

Instead of receiving a greater portion of the “word of Jehovah” through divine revelation, the people of Ephraim remain ensconced in its lesser version as that is all they know. The end result is their ruination: “Sanctify Jehovah of Hosts, making him your fear, him your awe. And [to you] he will be a sanctuary, but to the two houses of Israel a stumbling block or obstructing rock, and a snare, catching unawares the inhabitants of Jerusalem. Many will stumble into them, and when they fall shall be broken, and when they become ensnared shall be taken captive” (Isaiah 8:13-15; cf. 5:13; 42:18-25).
---------------------

Isaiah 3
12 As for my people, babes subject them; women wield authority over them.
O my people, your leaders mislead you, abolishing your traditional ways.

"The leaders of these people have misled them, and those who are led are confused” (Isaiah 9:13–16).
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=54297&p=1144743&hil ... d#p1144743

Isaiah 28 exposes the follies of the "Drunkards of Ephraim! " (church leaders)
Isaiah 28
Ephraim and its prophets reap disaster for being delusional and for rejecting divine revelation.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=55396&p=1037704&hil ... h#p1037704
rant about quoting...and then you put out a bunch of quotes...out of context though...

His complaint was that you're parroting uninspired men. If you'd like to try and put these scriptures IN context, let's hear it. Don't be lazy.
He ranted about quotes and then came back with quotes...

Uninspired is a frame of reference...many say the same for his quotes...

I buy into both...

Not that it matters much in your frame of reference....

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Jason
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Posts: 18296

Re: Ephxx

Post by Jason »

Being There wrote: September 25th, 2022, 9:33 am
Jason wrote: September 25th, 2022, 7:06 am
Being There wrote: September 24th, 2022, 5:08 pm
Jason wrote: September 24th, 2022, 3:50 pm

I've been in a couple of bishoprics over my decades in the church
I don't doubt it -
you're quite good at quoting and "parroting" -
like the Q15 - who don't have the spirit, but who are FULL of men's words and their precepts -
parroting and quoting each other all the time - patting each other on the back;
not to mention they don't preach against anything - all the evils in the World that governments
and World and religious leaders (like Nelson) follow, but they have aligned with it.

Like the Q15 - The Drunkards of Ephraim -
I think you fulfill Isaiah 28:9,10 to the tee.

Isaiah 28

7 These too have indulged in wine and are giddy with strong drink:priests and prophets have gone astray through liquor.
They are intoxicated with wine and stagger because of strong drink; they err as seers, they blunder in their decisions.
8 For all tables are filled with vomit; no spot is without excrement.

As the political and ecclesiastical leaderships of Jehovah’s people always appear on a par (Isaiah 3:2-4; 9:14-16; 24:2), so Ephraim’s “fat proud ones” (vv 1, 4) include its “priests,” “prophets,” and “seers” (Isaiah 56:10-12). Intoxicated with the wine of self-deception (v 15), they “stray,” “err,” and “blunder” in their policies. Instead of obtaining revelation from Jehovah (vv 9, 14, 16, 26, 29), they water down his word until it is ineffectual in empowering his people (vv 10-13; Isaiah 32:6). The best their spiritual feasts offer is “vomit”—partly digested food regurgitated for Jehovah’s people to consume.


We are still satisfied with the milk portions - the ABC portions of the gospel.
We will not accept the meat portions of the gospel.

9 Whom shall he give instruction?
Whom shall he enlighten with revelation?
Weanlings weaned from milk,
those just taken from the breast?
10 For it is but line upon line, line upon line,
precept upon precept, precept upon precept;
a trifle here, a trifle there.

Although Jehovah wants to give his people “instruction” and “revelation,” they are but babes and sucklings who haven’t developed far enough to digest more than milk: “Everyone who uses milk is unskillful in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe” (Hebrews 5:13).
Ephraim’s mode of learning is still “line upon line, line upon line, precept upon precept, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little” (saw lasaw saw lasaw qaw laqaw qaw laqaw ze‘ir sam ze‘ir sam).
Assonance and alliteration parody their rote method of learning
that consists of parroting back what their leaders teach.


13 So to them the word of Jehovah remained:
Line upon line, line upon line,
precept upon precept, precept upon precept;
a trifle here, a trifle there, that,
persisting, they might lapse into stumbling
and break themselves,
become ensnared and be taken captive.

Instead of receiving a greater portion of the “word of Jehovah” through divine revelation, the people of Ephraim remain ensconced in its lesser version as that is all they know. The end result is their ruination: “Sanctify Jehovah of Hosts, making him your fear, him your awe. And [to you] he will be a sanctuary, but to the two houses of Israel a stumbling block or obstructing rock, and a snare, catching unawares the inhabitants of Jerusalem. Many will stumble into them, and when they fall shall be broken, and when they become ensnared shall be taken captive” (Isaiah 8:13-15; cf. 5:13; 42:18-25).
---------------------

Isaiah 3
12 As for my people, babes subject them; women wield authority over them.
O my people, your leaders mislead you, abolishing your traditional ways.

"The leaders of these people have misled them, and those who are led are confused” (Isaiah 9:13–16).
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=54297&p=1144743&hil ... d#p1144743

Isaiah 28 exposes the follies of the "Drunkards of Ephraim! " (church leaders)
Isaiah 28
Ephraim and its prophets reap disaster for being delusional and for rejecting divine revelation.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=55396&p=1037704&hil ... h#p1037704
rant about quoting...and then you put out a bunch of quotes...out of context though...
quoting someone - like Isaiah - which the Lord said that his words were GREAT -
and gave a commandment that we "search diligently" his words -
is hardly the same as you quoting and parroting your church leaders. lol. -
but you probably wouldn't understand that.
and btw - they're anything but out of context.

but that's ok, you keep trusting in the arm of the flesh and quoting church leaders - precepts of men.
lol...they were all church leaders at one point or another...its just your train got derailed where you chose to derail it...and now you have no more future reference points...

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Jason
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Posts: 18296

Re: Renlund uses words of Moroni to convince a man to take pharmaceuticals

Post by Jason »

Being There wrote: September 25th, 2022, 6:54 pm
Jason wrote: September 25th, 2022, 7:17 am
Being There wrote: September 21st, 2022, 7:19 pm
Jason wrote: September 19th, 2022, 10:30 pm

Breathtaking apostasy indeed…

How was it put…Joseph Smith did more than any other person with the exception of Jesus Christ for the salvation of men…if that’s failure…sign me up!!!
truly spoken from the lips of a True Blue Mormon.

just reading that makes me sick !
what blasphemy !

trying to compare JS to our Savior ! -
or at least second to Him.

Mentioning Jesus Christ, and in the same sentence - mentioning JS having to do with our salvation !
How ugly - and sad.
By the way...thank you for the compliment...can't think of a finer one...make my uncle Brigham proud...
proud Gentiles - only they could be so proud.
No wonder why the "proud LDS Gentile church has lost the gospel back to The House of Israel -
because of members like you.
Just like the pride - that destroyed them - those peoples in the Book of Mormon -
who once had the gospel, but then lost it to us - because of their pride -
thinking - like you and many Gentile members in this forum -
"we are the Lord's chosen people - who the Lord restored His gospel through -
don't tell us anything - because we know everything - and will never lose the gospel"

famous last words.

repeating myself for others - others that want truth.

like most members -- (who just blindly follow, instead of really reading and knowing the scriptures)
you still have your head in the sand, because you don't want to see the truth, much less accept it -
that the church has been corrupted, and has fallen into apostasy; just as the scriptures warned it would.
We didn't heed the warnings of the book that was given to us - The Book of Mormon - (a book of warning)
We are repeating their history -
and what happened to them -- and now, has happened to us.
So now, because of our apostasy,
we will lose the gospel - the gospel will be taken from us, and given back to The House of Israel.

The first will be last and the last, first

"At the first, the Jews (in the Book of Mormon vernacular, meaning the house of Israel) were redeemed, then they rejected God and the gospel was taken to the Gentiles. (Acts 10.) In these last days, Joseph Smith restored the gospel among the Gentiles; and when they reject it, it will be taken back to the Jews, and they will be redeemed.
Hence, the first will be last and the last, first."

(1 Ne. 13:42; Jacob 5:63; Ether 13:12; D&C 88:59; Matt. 19:30; 20:8,16.)


"I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them."
The Lord doesn't say if, he says WHEN

10 And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you:
At that day WHEN the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things,
and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father,
I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them.

11 And then will I remember my covenant which I have made unto my people, O house of Israel,
and I will bring my gospel unto them.
12 And I will show unto thee, O house of Israel, that the Gentiles SHALL NOT have POWER over you;
but I will remember my covenant unto you, O house of Israel, and ye shall come unto the knowledge
of the fulness of my gospel.

---------------------------------------------
3 Nephi 21
9 For in that day, for my sake shall the Father work a work, which shall be a great and a marvelous work among them; and there shall be among them those who will not believe it, although a man shall declare it unto them.
10 But behold, the life of my servant shall be in my hand; therefore they shall not hurt him, although he shall be marred because of them. Yet I will heal him, for I will show unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the devil.
11 Therefore it shall come to pass that whosoever will not believe in my words, who am Jesus Christ, which the Father shall cause him to bring forth unto the Gentiles, and shall give unto him power that he shall bring them forth unto the Gentiles, (it shall be done even as Moses said) they shall be cut off from among my people who are of the covenant.

"The great and marvelous work - includes the restoration of the gospel, but that's just the beginning.
Most of the Lord's "great and marvelous work" of which Nephi speaks is still future. - with the entire purpose being -
to restore the Lord's ancient covenant people - The House of Israel.
And the man that shall declare it, (verse 9) is the Lord's end-time servant - the Davidic servant that
"brings forth (these great and marvelous revelations )unto the Gentiles" - being
the words of Christ (the sealed portion) (verse 11) to the church, but they don't believe it (verse 9)
and "he shall be marred because of them" (verse 10) (these words condemn the Lord's people - our church)
And because they reject these new revelations and the words of Christ and His servant,
"(it shall be done even as Moses said) they shall be cut off from among my people who are of the covenant." (verse 11)

quote
"When the Lord's servant comes to us with the words of Christ (sealed portion)
and we reject them, and him, we will have filled the full measure of our iniquity
and the Lord will take the gospel from us, and give it back to the House of Israel.
hence "the first will be last, and last first"
And when that happens, The Times of the Gentiles will be fulfilled.

So great is this challenge, in fact, that many Gentiles will not accept it.
Instead, they will reject the words of Christ, and be "cut off" as
bitter branches, from His people (3 Nephi 21:11"

We Gentiles, and also the entire World, will have two choices when the Davidic King arrives: we will either
(1) harden our hearts to our own condemnation and destruction; or else
(2) we will repent and prepare to join Zion.
There will be a complete division between the righteous and the wicked in that day."
end quote

3 Nephi 21

11 Therefore it shall come to pass that whosoever will not believe in my words, who am Jesus Christ, which the Father shall cause him to bring forth unto the Gentiles, and shall give unto him power that he shall bring them forth unto the Gentiles, (it shall be done even as Moses said) they shall be cut off from among my people who are of the covenant.

quote
"These Gentiles have no charity for their fellow beings.
They don't thank the Jews nor Lehi's descendants for the scriptures they have received from them.
Instead, they curse and hate them and will not recover them.
The Lord lengthens out his arm to the Gentiles all the day long.
But they mar the Lord's servant who brings forth His words.
Their rejecting the Lord's servant and their rejecting the gospel doubly testifies of their apostasy;
Nephi, therefore, offers no hope for the Gentiles unless they reconcile themselves to Christ."
sweet...members like me...that would be cool!

User avatar
Being There
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2868

Re: Ephxx

Post by Being There »

Obeone wrote: September 24th, 2022, 8:35 pm
Being There wrote: September 24th, 2022, 5:08 pm you're quite good at quoting and "parroting" -
It is funny coming from a man who just copied and pasted several chapters from Isaiah.
Being There wrote: September 24th, 2022, 5:08 pm Ephraim’s mode of learning is still “line upon line, line upon line, precept upon precept, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little” (saw lasaw saw lasaw qaw laqaw qaw laqaw ze‘ir sam ze‘ir sam).
Assonance and alliteration parody their rote method of learning
that consists of parroting back what their leaders teach.


13 So to them the word of Jehovah remained:
Line upon line, line upon line,
precept upon precept, precept upon precept;
a trifle here, a trifle there, that,
persisting, they might lapse into stumbling
and break themselves,
become ensnared and be taken captive.
Did you forget this?
 2 Nephi 28:
30 For behold, thus saith the Lord God: I will give unto the children of men line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little; and blessed are those who hearken unto my precepts, and lend an ear unto my counsel, for they shall learn wisdom; for unto him that receiveth I will give more; and from them that shall say, We have enough, from them shall be taken away even that which they have.
It looks like "line upon line" is the Lord's way of teaching.

You on the other hand, boast of "meat" instead of milk, yet broke the covenant you made with God to support His Church.

Not smart. You will know it. Mark my word.
glad you quoted this - because 2 Nephi 28 - is all about the church -
like this verse describes perfectly -
"and from them that shall say, We have enough,
from them shall be taken away even that which they have."
-
which has happened to the church.
2 Nephi 28:
30 For behold, thus saith the Lord God: I will give unto the children of men line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little; and blessed are those who hearken unto my precepts, and lend an ear unto my counsel, for they shall learn wisdom; for unto him that receiveth I will give more,
and from them that shall say, We have enough, from them shall be taken away even that which they have.
and btw - it's not His church.
And here's your ""line upon line". *****

So mark MY word, because you will know it - SOON - as you fall with your Gentile friends-
your church leaders who you worship - The Drunkards of Ephraim -
who the Lord will hurl to the ground. Isaiah 28:2

* to quote myself. - and as I said to someone else *
getting tired of quoting myself to those that are not looking for the truth -
but want the truth to be what they want it to be.
"“People say they love truth, but in reality they want to believe that which they love is true.”
and you love and worship your church leaders, and not the words of Jesus Christ
or the truth in our scriptures.

* "actually, "those who truly try to follow Christ" and read His words, know we are in apostasy.
but it's pretty useless and hopeless to even reply to you because you don't even read any of the scriptures I post or care what they say; you go totally on your feelings - blindly wanting to believe in what you want, and seeing what you want to see - that "all is well in Zion", instead of wanting to find the truth.
“People say they love truth, but in reality they want to believe that which they love is true.”
And they're not my judgments; they are words of Jesus Christ and Isaiah saying these things; so how will I be judged.

you're the typical kind of member that always says "the church would never be taken off the earth again".
You're right, the gospel won't be taken off the Earth; the Lord will take it from us -

Just because we have the restored gospel.
That, just as the children of Abraham said:
"we are the children of Abraham that God
has covenanted with and that he would bless
his seed forever."
Us members say -
"We have the restored gospel and it will
never be taken from the earth again."

Matthew 3:9 (KJV)
9 And think not to say within yourselves,
We have Abraham to our father:
for I say unto you, that God is able
of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

It won't be taken from the earth again.
The Lord will take it FROM us.
"I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them."

3 Nephi 16:10,11,12
10 And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you: At that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father,
I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them.

11 And then will I remember my covenant which I have made unto my people, O house of Israel, and I will bring my gospel unto them.
12 And I will show unto thee, O house of Israel, that the Gentiles shall not have power over you; but I will remember my covenant unto you, O house of Israel, and ye shall come unto the knowledge of the fulness of my gospel.

------------------------------------------------
and as I commented to someone else -
44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms,
and it shall stand for ever.
fortunately, this scripture -
this kingdom - IS NOT talking about, and IS NOT the current LDS church at all
(which the Lord will hurl to the ground. Isa 28)

but this one is. Isa 28

The church and it's leaders haven't been led by the Lord for over a hundred years.
and have corrupted His church, and brought it to where it is - in total apostasy -
just as the scriptures said it would.
And now The Times of the Gentiles (US) are ending - and the Lord will hurl to the ground *** Isa.28:2
The Drunkards of Ephraim (church leaders) and blind members - that follow them blindly.


Isaiah 28 is all about - The Drunkards of Ephraim

Ephraim’s “fat proud ones” (vv 1, 4) include its “priests,” “prophets,” and “seers” (Isaiah 56:10-12).
Intoxicated with the wine of self-deception (v 15), they “stray,” “err,” and “blunder” in their policies. Instead of obtaining revelation from Jehovah (vv 9, 14, 16, 26, 29), they water down his word until it is ineffectual in empowering his people (vv 10-13; Isaiah 32:6). The best their spiritual feasts offer is “vomit”—partly digested food regurgitated for Jehovah’s people to consume.

----------------------------------------------------

Isaiah 28 exposes the follies of the "Drunkards of Ephraim! " (mostly the leaders of the church)

Isaiah 28
Ephraim and its prophets reap disaster for being delusional and for rejecting divine revelation.
https://www.isaiahexplained.com/commentary/28


I find it absurd that some, (the "all is well in Zion" crowd ) can say that Isaiah 28
has nothing to do with the church,
while the church itself says that Isaiah 29 does.

quote
"First we must note here that Isaiah is speaking to "the drunkards of Ephraim”.
There is no question that the Latter-Day Saints refer to themselves as “Ephraim” and there is no question that the Church teaches that the very next chapter of Isaiah (chapter 29) refers to our day or the coming forth of the Church, and the Book of Mormon. Therefore, it would seem quite logical that Isaiah 28 would also refer to Ephraim of our day."

taken from: LDS Seminary Student Study Guide

"Isaiah 29 is one place in the Bible where the Book of Mormon is referred to, even though it is not mentioned by name.
As you read this chapter, look for prophecies of the coming forth of the Book of Mormon and the impact this book will have on the world."
*****
If you want a big wake up call please read and study the 28th chapter of Isaiah,
it will reveal that every word applies to our church in these days
and to no other people.
Isaiah cites that this people would be given "precept upon precept;
precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little and there a little."
These identical words, were used by the Prophet Joseph Smith among his closing instructions
to the latter day saints, warning us to go forward not backward. D.C.128:21-22 ; 2Nephi 28:30

That's where the Lord has laid a trap for us.
Isaiah 28:13 "But the word of the Lord was unto them
precept upon precept, precept upon precept;
line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little;
that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken,
and snared, and taken."

1 Woe to the garlands of glory
of the drunkards of Ephraim!
Their crowning splendor has become as fading wreaths
on the heads of the opulent overcome with wine.

Chapters 28-31, which form a didactic unit comprising Part VI of Isaiah’s Seven-Part Structure (Isaiah 28-31; 55-59),
each commence with a “woe” or covenant curse.
Ephraim’s chief sins of pride and drunkenness catch up with Israel’s birthright tribe in Jehovah’s Day of Judgment. Instead of acknowledging current inconvenient truths,
the people of Ephraim look back on past glories earned in more righteous times as if they still apply today. Ephraim’s self-deception, stemming from intoxication with “wine” at the highest levels, compounds the hard times that lie ahead (v 7; Isaiah 56:10-12).

"Isaiah's prophecy concerning Ephraim consists mostly of censure.
Ephraim lives in the past, acting as if former glories were current ones: “Woe to the garlands of glory of the drunkards of Ephraim!
Their crowning splendor has become as fading wreaths on the heads of the opulent overcome with wine” (Isaiah 28:1).
The king of Assyria—a new Flood (Isaiah 8:7–8)—will invade Ephraim’s land:

*** 2.“My Lord has in store one mighty and strong: as a ravaging hailstorm sweeping down, or like an inundating deluge of mighty waters,
he will hurl them to the ground by his hand.

The proud garlands of the drunkards of Ephraim shall be trodden underfoot”(Isaiah 28:2–3)."

The imagery of “a ravaging hailstorm sweeping down” and of “an inundating deluge of mighty waters” identifies the king of Assyria/Babylon and his alliance of aggressor nations (Isaiah 8:7-8; 17:12; 18:2).
A second “one mighty and strong” in the Book of Isaiah is Jehovah’s servant, who makes an end of him at the last. Although Jehovah provides a refuge for a repentant remnant of his people against the storms of their enemies (Isaiah 4:6; 25:4-5; 57:13), he empowers the archtyrant—Jehovah’s (left) hand—over “the drunkards of Ephraim” to cast their illustriousness to the ground (cf. vv 1, 3).(Bold & Italics mine)

Isaiah 28

7 These too have indulged in wine and are giddy with strong drink:priests and prophets have gone astray through liquor.
They are intoxicated with wine and stagger because of strong drink; they err as seers, they blunder in their decisions.
8 For all tables are filled with vomit; no spot is without excrement.

As the political and ecclesiastical leaderships of Jehovah’s people always appear on a par (Isaiah 3:2-4; 9:14-16; 24:2), so Ephraim’s “fat proud ones” (vv 1, 4) include its “priests,” “prophets,” and “seers” (Isaiah 56:10-12). Intoxicated with the wine of self-deception (v 15), they “stray,” “err,” and “blunder” in their policies. Instead of obtaining revelation from Jehovah (vv 9, 14, 16, 26, 29), they water down his word until it is ineffectual in empowering his people (vv 10-13; Isaiah 32:6). The best their spiritual feasts offer is “vomit”—partly digested food regurgitated for Jehovah’s people to consume.


We are still satisfied with the milk portions - the ABC portions of the gospel.
We will not accept the meat portions of the gospel.

9 Whom shall he give instruction?
Whom shall he enlighten with revelation?
Weanlings weaned from milk,
those just taken from the breast?
10 For it is but line upon line, line upon line,
precept upon precept, precept upon precept;
a trifle here, a trifle there.

Although Jehovah wants to give his people “instruction” and “revelation,” they are but babes and sucklings who haven’t developed far enough to digest more than milk: “Everyone who uses milk is unskillful in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe” (Hebrews 5:13). Ephraim’s mode of learning is still “line upon line, line upon line, precept upon precept, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little” (saw lasaw saw lasaw qaw laqaw qaw laqaw ze‘ir sam ze‘ir sam). Assonance and alliteration parody their rote method of learning that consists of parroting back what their leaders teach.

13 So to them the word of Jehovah remained:
Line upon line, line upon line,
precept upon precept, precept upon precept;
a trifle here, a trifle there, that,
persisting, they might lapse into stumbling
and break themselves,
become ensnared and be taken captive.

Instead of receiving a greater portion of the “word of Jehovah” through divine revelation, the people of Ephraim remain ensconced in its lesser version as that is all they know. The end result is their ruination: “Sanctify Jehovah of Hosts, making him your fear, him your awe. And [to you] he will be a sanctuary, but to the two houses of Israel a stumbling block or obstructing rock, and a snare, catching unawares the inhabitants of Jerusalem. Many will stumble into them, and when they fall shall be broken, and when they become ensnared shall be taken captive” (Isaiah 8:13-15; cf. 5:13; 42:18-25).

---------------
Isaiah 3
12 As for my people, babes subject them; women wield authority over them.
O my people, your leaders mislead you, abolishing your traditional ways.

"The leaders of these people have misled them, and those who are led are confused” (Isaiah 9:13–16).
https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtop ... d#p1144743

Isaiah 28 exposes the follies of the "Drunkards of Ephraim! " (church leaders)
Isaiah 28
Ephraim and its prophets reap disaster for being delusional and for rejecting divine revelation.
https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtop ... h#p1037704

User avatar
Obeone
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1382

Re: Ephxx

Post by Obeone »

Being There wrote: September 25th, 2022, 7:43 pm [whatever this is...]
You accused all the prophets and apostles for the last 100 years of murder, lying, drunkenness, apostasy and not believing in Christ without a shred of evidence.

The magnitude of your delusion is truly profound. It has been said that when the spirit of God leaves a man so does also common sense and basic logic.

How did you disconnect yourself from the Spirit so thoroughly?

If you think God has told you this nonsense that contradicts basic facts, you are mistaken, and are under an influence of a lying spirit.

I know these men whom you baselessly accused of every sin under the sun as men of faith who believe in, and reverence Jesus Christ deeply, and are laying down/spending their lives in His service diligently and devoutly. These are facts.

Their works and their words prove it. They are devoted disciples of Jesus Christ.

Moreover I have testimony of the Spirit of God that these men hold the true keys of the kingdom of God on earth.

You are profoundly inverted, my friend. What is up, seems down to you. Black is white, and sweet is bitter.

Isaiah spoke well of this condition:
 Isaiah 5:
20 ¶ Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
21 Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!
Yet I sense you are trying to follow Jesus. That is good. But please, if you believe in prayer, pray more. And learn to discern the true influence of the Spirit. It is not bitterness. It is not darkness. It is not fear.

It is love, light, meekness and truth.

Jesus gave a great test how to detect a false prophet or a false church: By their fruits ye shall know them.

The fruits brought forward by this Church are on balance good. And some are very good. Please focus on that. And please try to be fair and merciful in your judgments. For with the same judgment you will be judged again.

Try to give these men benefit of the doubt. Are they perfect in all things? No. But neither are you. I venture to say no mortal being is fully perfect. Therefore please keep in mind the words of Moroni:
And now, if there are faults they are the mistakes of men; wherefore, condemn not the things of God, that ye may be found spotless at the judgment-seat of Christ.
This is my testimony to you.

User avatar
InfoWarrior82
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 10861
Location: "There are 15 on the earth today, you can trust them completely." -President Nelson (Jan 2022)

Re: Ephxx

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

Jason wrote: September 25th, 2022, 7:14 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: September 25th, 2022, 9:07 am
Jason wrote: September 25th, 2022, 7:06 am
Being There wrote: September 24th, 2022, 5:08 pm

I don't doubt it -
you're quite good at quoting and "parroting" -
like the Q15 - who don't have the spirit, but who are FULL of men's words and their precepts -
parroting and quoting each other all the time - patting each other on the back;
not to mention they don't preach against anything - all the evils in the World that governments
and World and religious leaders (like Nelson) follow, but they have aligned with it.

Like the Q15 - The Drunkards of Ephraim -
I think you fulfill Isaiah 28:9,10 to the tee.

Isaiah 28

7 These too have indulged in wine and are giddy with strong drink:priests and prophets have gone astray through liquor.
They are intoxicated with wine and stagger because of strong drink; they err as seers, they blunder in their decisions.
8 For all tables are filled with vomit; no spot is without excrement.

As the political and ecclesiastical leaderships of Jehovah’s people always appear on a par (Isaiah 3:2-4; 9:14-16; 24:2), so Ephraim’s “fat proud ones” (vv 1, 4) include its “priests,” “prophets,” and “seers” (Isaiah 56:10-12). Intoxicated with the wine of self-deception (v 15), they “stray,” “err,” and “blunder” in their policies. Instead of obtaining revelation from Jehovah (vv 9, 14, 16, 26, 29), they water down his word until it is ineffectual in empowering his people (vv 10-13; Isaiah 32:6). The best their spiritual feasts offer is “vomit”—partly digested food regurgitated for Jehovah’s people to consume.


We are still satisfied with the milk portions - the ABC portions of the gospel.
We will not accept the meat portions of the gospel.

9 Whom shall he give instruction?
Whom shall he enlighten with revelation?
Weanlings weaned from milk,
those just taken from the breast?
10 For it is but line upon line, line upon line,
precept upon precept, precept upon precept;
a trifle here, a trifle there.

Although Jehovah wants to give his people “instruction” and “revelation,” they are but babes and sucklings who haven’t developed far enough to digest more than milk: “Everyone who uses milk is unskillful in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe” (Hebrews 5:13).
Ephraim’s mode of learning is still “line upon line, line upon line, precept upon precept, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little” (saw lasaw saw lasaw qaw laqaw qaw laqaw ze‘ir sam ze‘ir sam).
Assonance and alliteration parody their rote method of learning
that consists of parroting back what their leaders teach.


13 So to them the word of Jehovah remained:
Line upon line, line upon line,
precept upon precept, precept upon precept;
a trifle here, a trifle there, that,
persisting, they might lapse into stumbling
and break themselves,
become ensnared and be taken captive.

Instead of receiving a greater portion of the “word of Jehovah” through divine revelation, the people of Ephraim remain ensconced in its lesser version as that is all they know. The end result is their ruination: “Sanctify Jehovah of Hosts, making him your fear, him your awe. And [to you] he will be a sanctuary, but to the two houses of Israel a stumbling block or obstructing rock, and a snare, catching unawares the inhabitants of Jerusalem. Many will stumble into them, and when they fall shall be broken, and when they become ensnared shall be taken captive” (Isaiah 8:13-15; cf. 5:13; 42:18-25).
---------------------

Isaiah 3
12 As for my people, babes subject them; women wield authority over them.
O my people, your leaders mislead you, abolishing your traditional ways.

"The leaders of these people have misled them, and those who are led are confused” (Isaiah 9:13–16).
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=54297&p=1144743&hil ... d#p1144743

Isaiah 28 exposes the follies of the "Drunkards of Ephraim! " (church leaders)
Isaiah 28
Ephraim and its prophets reap disaster for being delusional and for rejecting divine revelation.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=55396&p=1037704&hil ... h#p1037704
rant about quoting...and then you put out a bunch of quotes...out of context though...

His complaint was that you're parroting uninspired men. If you'd like to try and put these scriptures IN context, let's hear it. Don't be lazy.
He ranted about quotes and then came back with quotes...

Uninspired is a frame of reference...many say the same for his quotes...

I buy into both...

Not that it matters much in your frame of reference....
He quoted a prophet speaking as a prophet.

User avatar
Jason
Master of Puppets
Posts: 18296

Re: Ephxx

Post by Jason »

InfoWarrior82 wrote: September 25th, 2022, 10:47 pm
Jason wrote: September 25th, 2022, 7:14 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: September 25th, 2022, 9:07 am
Jason wrote: September 25th, 2022, 7:06 am

rant about quoting...and then you put out a bunch of quotes...out of context though...

His complaint was that you're parroting uninspired men. If you'd like to try and put these scriptures IN context, let's hear it. Don't be lazy.
He ranted about quotes and then came back with quotes...

Uninspired is a frame of reference...many say the same for his quotes...

I buy into both...

Not that it matters much in your frame of reference....
He quoted a prophet speaking as a prophet.
lol...it's all perspective isn't it. Said prophet in his day was drawn and quartered by his people who didn't consider him to be a prophet...

User avatar
InfoWarrior82
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 10861
Location: "There are 15 on the earth today, you can trust them completely." -President Nelson (Jan 2022)

Re: Ephxx

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

Jason wrote: October 2nd, 2022, 10:25 am
InfoWarrior82 wrote: September 25th, 2022, 10:47 pm
Jason wrote: September 25th, 2022, 7:14 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: September 25th, 2022, 9:07 am


His complaint was that you're parroting uninspired men. If you'd like to try and put these scriptures IN context, let's hear it. Don't be lazy.
He ranted about quotes and then came back with quotes...

Uninspired is a frame of reference...many say the same for his quotes...

I buy into both...

Not that it matters much in your frame of reference....
He quoted a prophet speaking as a prophet.
lol...it's all perspective isn't it. Said prophet in his day was drawn and quartered by his people who didn't consider him to be a prophet...
But none of these men can quote the Lord. "One of these things is not like the other."


Why was Wilford Woodruff the last church president able to do such a thing?

User avatar
Jason
Master of Puppets
Posts: 18296

Re: Ephxx

Post by Jason »

InfoWarrior82 wrote: October 2nd, 2022, 10:44 am
Jason wrote: October 2nd, 2022, 10:25 am
InfoWarrior82 wrote: September 25th, 2022, 10:47 pm
Jason wrote: September 25th, 2022, 7:14 pm

He ranted about quotes and then came back with quotes...

Uninspired is a frame of reference...many say the same for his quotes...

I buy into both...

Not that it matters much in your frame of reference....
He quoted a prophet speaking as a prophet.
lol...it's all perspective isn't it. Said prophet in his day was drawn and quartered by his people who didn't consider him to be a prophet...
But none of these men can quote the Lord. "One of these things is not like the other."


Why was Wilford Woodruff the last church president able to do such a thing?
Ever dig into the prophesies of his...or those who went before him...a few were quoted this weekend...

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InfoWarrior82
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Re: Ephxx

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

Jason wrote: October 2nd, 2022, 8:30 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: October 2nd, 2022, 10:44 am
Jason wrote: October 2nd, 2022, 10:25 am
InfoWarrior82 wrote: September 25th, 2022, 10:47 pm

He quoted a prophet speaking as a prophet.
lol...it's all perspective isn't it. Said prophet in his day was drawn and quartered by his people who didn't consider him to be a prophet...
But none of these men can quote the Lord. "One of these things is not like the other."


Why was Wilford Woodruff the last church president able to do such a thing?
Ever dig into the prophesies of his...or those who went before him...a few were quoted this weekend...
Yes.


Annnyways... why do you dodge the question?

Why was Wilford Woodruff the last church president able to do such a thing?

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Jason
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Re: Ephxx

Post by Jason »

InfoWarrior82 wrote: October 2nd, 2022, 8:48 pm
Jason wrote: October 2nd, 2022, 8:30 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: October 2nd, 2022, 10:44 am
Jason wrote: October 2nd, 2022, 10:25 am

lol...it's all perspective isn't it. Said prophet in his day was drawn and quartered by his people who didn't consider him to be a prophet...
But none of these men can quote the Lord. "One of these things is not like the other."


Why was Wilford Woodruff the last church president able to do such a thing?
Ever dig into the prophesies of his...or those who went before him...a few were quoted this weekend...
Yes.


Annnyways... why do you dodge the question?

Why was Wilford Woodruff the last church president able to do such a thing?
Ever analyze all the speaking styles of the various individuals in the Book of Mormon? I get this is your pet peeve to grind upon...which is only a thing in your eyes. Hence you dodge my questions...and I return the favor! A question for a question.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Ephxx

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Jason wrote: October 6th, 2022, 8:23 pm
Ever analyze all the speaking styles of the various individuals in the Book of Mormon?
That is a fascinating topic btw:

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InfoWarrior82
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Re: Ephxx

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

Jason wrote: October 6th, 2022, 8:23 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: October 2nd, 2022, 8:48 pm
Jason wrote: October 2nd, 2022, 8:30 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: October 2nd, 2022, 10:44 am

But none of these men can quote the Lord. "One of these things is not like the other."


Why was Wilford Woodruff the last church president able to do such a thing?
Ever dig into the prophesies of his...or those who went before him...a few were quoted this weekend...
Yes.


Annnyways... why do you dodge the question?

Why was Wilford Woodruff the last church president able to do such a thing?
Ever analyze all the speaking styles of the various individuals in the Book of Mormon? I get this is your pet peeve to grind upon...which is only a thing in your eyes. Hence you dodge my questions...and I return the favor! A question for a question.
Yes, and?

But why was Wilford Woodruff the last one? What happened during his time as President of the church? Did he do some weird stuff? Did he go and meet with some shady people and do some shady things?

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Re: Ephxx

Post by Joan7 »

Obeone wrote: September 25th, 2022, 4:57 pm
Chip wrote: September 25th, 2022, 2:39 pm In Brigham's time, the entire household of heaven had been recast as polygamist extraordinaires. We don't hear that, nowadays, and polygamists get summarily kicked out of the church.
The doctrine has not changed as far as heaven is concerned. If something is not spoken today, it does not mean it no longer exists.
Well, Obeone. That puts you in an interesting bind. Because there is doctrine that is no longer spoken of today. And it exists!

1835 Doctrine and Covenants 101:4
Inasmuch as this church of Christ has been reproached with the crime of fornication, and polygamy: we declare that we believe, that one man should have one wife; and one woman, but one husband, except in case of death, when either is at liberty to marry again.

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Re: Ephxx

Post by Obeone »

Kit-OTW wrote: October 7th, 2022, 7:11 am 1835 Doctrine and Covenants 101:4
Inasmuch as this church of Christ has been reproached with the crime of fornication, and polygamy: we declare that we believe, that one man should have one wife; and one woman, but one husband, except in case of death, when either is at liberty to marry again.
"we believe" is not revelation I believe.

Also this sounds like D&C 134 which is not a revelation and never was.

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