General Conference October 2022 - Saturday Live Thread and Recap

[EvanLM]

the words in these talks as well as the manuals and for the strength are all mens ideas or teachings. The scriptures which is the word of God and needs no flowery comments added to it or any logical men's words, will humble us to live them.

trying to talk one into living the doctrines by using man's reason is not going to get us anywhere. .6% church growth

there is no solid direction such as when one mentions ask, he never admits under what conditions a man's heart and conscience needs to be and his faithfulness demonstrated . . . whatever

He confuses motives . . . both oaks and renlund only justify and are talking to those who are apostste, not the regular saints.

[spiritMan]

Damned if you do, damned if you don't, it would appear.

How so? I don’t understand…

(Church is quiet on figures): Hey, I see your beautiful temples, but what do you do to help the poor?!?

(Church reveals figures): Hey, stop revealing what you do! You aren't supposed to show that to the world!

The church already publishes their donations. People know. There is no need to rehash it over the pulpit that’s broadcast to the world.

It's about them giving funds to things and organizations that are not Christian. BLM, NAACP, LGBTQ orgs. None of those align with Christ

[J2]

Elder Renlund: I didn't need to pray about it, because only the prophet receives revelation for the church.

WOW.

So we shouldn't ask God for confirmation of another person's truth claims? This is appallingly bad.

[BuriedTartaria]

Expect the message in this talk (the one about "The Lord's prophet" being the only person who can receive revelation and the Hiram Page story) to become a more commonly discussed topic. Nothing new is being given in this talk, but they can see people are walking away from the LDS Institution while continuing on in a belief in the Book of Mormon.

No unhallowed hand implies a hallowed hand can stop "the work" from progressing. I don't think "the work" is progressing in this institution.

[spiritMan]

Second framework: Personal revelation will come through our lanes, and not on others' lanes.

Only the Prophet receives revelation for the entire Church, Hiram Page referenced.

Yeah well don't ask me to sacrifice my kids in your ideological altar so my kids can be companions with openly queer missionaries.

[FrankOne]

Oaks’ talk is a prelude to RMN at the end…something is up…

He presented a leading 'statement' in his discourse. Like an atty presenting a premise.

[spiritMan]

Elder Renlund: I didn't need to pray about it, because only the prophet receives revelation for the church.

WOW.

Stupidity.

[Subcomandante]

Others cannot receive revelation for you.

Third framework: Personal revelation will be in harmony with the commandments of God.

Many justifications of not going to Church shot down.

If we ask revelation for something which God has already revealed, then we are subject to misinterpret those feelings that we receive.

"Nothing is of greater injury to the children of men, than when they are influenced by a false spirit, when he thinks he's inspired to a true spirit" JOSEPH SMITH

[tribrac]

Oaks’ talk is a prelude to RMN at the end…something is up…

Church keeps losing proselytizing missionaries, so they are going to announce expansion of service missionaries for youth.

Maybe more ward RS president responsibility to fulfill 'Just Serve' assignments.

[J2]

Can someone sum up what Oaks talked about? Also, why did he speak first instead of Nelson? I missed it.

[InfoWarrior82]

Those that said that the prophets would not tell the people to repent of their sins, need to pay up to those that challenged them.

But did they tell world leaders to repent of their sins? They certainly met with a lot of them lately.

[EvanLM]

renlund discourages and erodes the confidence that many of us have . . is he the only one that has done it perfect? I think not. . .this is actually what turns away members

not a lack of love from the savior but the causing us to second guess all of what Christ has given us individually.

he should be encouraging opur growth by delivering the words of Christ to us as given through the scriptures rather than recalling all mistakes even of the prophet JS

[FrankOne]

Elder Renlund: I didn't need to pray about it, because only the prophet receives revelation for the church.

WOW.

So we shouldn't ask God for confirmation of another person's truth claims? This is appallingly bad.

Another of many subtle manipulations to direct our attention to a Natural Man instead of depending on God. It's a subtle overtone that is becoming more prevalent as time goes on. Trust the Natural Man Prophet for your guidance.

[Subcomandante]

4th element of Framework: Previous personal revelation precedent...

"Joseph, you know how I feel about this...but I'll let you have your agency"

(This illustrates that sometimes God teaches his children the hard way, when they are adamant about doing something that will displease Him).

[endlessQuestions]

Renlund’s argument for why Nephi was justified in killing Laban is appallingly bad from a logical standpoint. <shrug>

[Subcomandante]

Even though we have our answers, sometimes, we need to be open to further personal revelation. Revelation is frequently and inherently incremental - Elder Renlund

[J2]

Elder Renlund: I didn't need to pray about it, because only the prophet receives revelation for the church.

WOW.

So we shouldn't ask God for confirmation of another person's truth claims? This is appallingly bad.

Another of many subtle manipulations to direct our attention to a Natural Man instead of depending on God. It's a subtle overtone that is becoming more prevalent as time goes on. Trust the Natural Man Prophet for your guidance.

Agreed. It was never anything close to this when the president was Monson or Hinckley. This obsessive worship of man has got to stop.

[EvanLM]

Nelson probably went down and they gave us one hour of the choir in different dresses making me think it was a feed. . . not all live

perhaps they took down a shooter..I went one year and they did have to take down a guy in the congregation that stood up and started shouting

cameras avoided the man but today the cameras probably couldn't avoid what was going on.

[tribrac]

So Strength of Youth is removing standards so people can seek their own guidance...

Then Renlend says people get deceived when seeking personal revalation and should rely on words of the prophets.

I feel like I have wasted my life not understanding how those two principles work together. Think I am too rigid to ever understand.

[BuriedTartaria]

They're removing standards from Strength of Youth? They're trying to get out of LGBT conflicting doctrine. More changes will come. The writing is on the wall. This institution is dying spiritually

Oaks’ talk is a prelude to RMN at the end…something is up…

Church keeps losing proselytizing missionaries, so they are going to announce expansion of service missionaries for youth.

Maybe more ward RS president responsibility to fulfill 'Just Serve' assignments.

From my narrow, anecdotal perspective, I feel like the proselytizing mission forces are declining in quality of integrity found per missionary and in the experience the missionary gets on their mission. I would say it largely started with the covid measures impacting how a mission functions. There just seems to be something lost. You can call your family weekly. You spend so much time messaging people on facebook. The experience seems like it has declined, lining up with a lot of society feeling it has gone down in value.

I know this is anecdotal, but I work with a young girl leaving on a mission in a few months. She has some serious issues (night after night, pushing moral boundaries, she's struggling, she's directionless) and she's going out there just to have something to do. I think a lot of youth are. They treat it like a summer sales experience after high school where they get to live somewhere new. It's just something to do. Something to be able to share on your social media page.


There is no considerable church growth found in the missionary program. There hasn't been in a long time. Study the Book of Mormon. Future events prophesied in it will occur, but this institution is less than it claims to be and it's declining in light.

[Lizzy60]

Nelson probably went down and they gave us one hour of the choir in different dresses making me think it was a feed. . . not all live

perhaps they took down a shooter..I went one year and they did have to take down a guy in the congregation that stood up and started shouting

cameras avoided the man but today the cameras probably couldn't avoid what was going on.

Did something happen today?

[Subcomandante]

Nelson probably went down and they gave us one hour of the choir in different dresses making me think it was a feed. . . not all live

perhaps they took down a shooter..I went one year and they did have to take down a guy in the congregation that stood up and started shouting

cameras avoided the man but today the cameras probably couldn't avoid what was going on.

When did this happen? After President Oaks' talk?

[InfoWarrior82]

Even though we have our answers, sometimes, we need to be open to further personal revelation. Revelation is frequently and inherently incremental - Elder Renlund

Yep. Just like the Covid shots, amirite?

[Subcomandante]

Now speaking is Elder Pino of the Seventy. He was one of the counselors of the Mexico Area Presidency.

[InfoWarrior82]

Elder Renlund: I didn't need to pray about it, because only the prophet receives revelation for the church.

WOW.

So we shouldn't ask God for confirmation of another person's truth claims? This is appallingly bad.

Another of many subtle manipulations to direct our attention to a Natural Man instead of depending on God. It's a subtle overtone that is becoming more prevalent as time goes on. Trust the Natural Man Prophet for your guidance.

Agreed. It was never anything close to this when the president was Monson or Hinckley. This obsessive worship of man has got to stop.

And for some reason there are still people on this forum who are like "Huh? I don't get it when you claim that these men talk on both sides of their mouths!"