BYU to honor ‘Black 14’ football players kicked off Wyoming’s 1969 team

[Fred]

https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/comment ... EAAA%3D%3D

BYU is directly confronting its past history on race this weekend by honoring two members of the Black 14, the players kicked off the 1969 Wyoming football team because they considered wearing black armbands during a game with BYU to protest a past Latter-day Saint policy on race and priesthood.

thomaslewis1857
·
2 days ago
Is it “confronting its past history”?

There is a lot of blame levelled at Coach Eaton, and none at the Church. My guess is the Church, and certainly ETB, appreciated Eaton’s firm stance on the issue at the time. Any demonising of Eaton serves to pass off and attempts to diminish the Church’s responsibility.

And of course, no apology, not even close. No acknowledgement of error, even. Like the GTE on Race and the Priesthood, which never accepts error: the closest it gets is to say the reasons for the race restrictions are not “accepted today as the official doctrine of the Church”. How weak is that.

So as others say, it’s decades late and many dollars short. It reeks of mere PR unless they accept responsibility. And everybody can see that, except the Church. But no, when Uchtdorf makes the mildest acceptance of the idea that some leaders made mistakes, it’s so offensive that he gets booted out of the FP at the first opportunity so he can learn the Oaks doctrine: never apologize, never accept we were wrong, obfuscate, coverup, deny.

[tribrac]

Never understood athletes using their societal position to make political statements or protesting.

Do they start to believe that all those screaming fans care about them deeply as a human rather than as just another player in a uniform?

Anyway I don't know why BYU thought it needs to apologize now for something two other groups did so long ago ...it happened before the current group of players parents were born. But nothing woke makes sense other than it making great headlines and virtue signaling.

I do hope the Wyoming players who were still bothered by this can now let it go and move on, although they might be asking themselves why Wyoming and COPB had not apologized.

[dreamtheater76]

I long for the days when sports was about sports. It no longer seems like a rivalry when I hate both teams now.

[Subcomandante]

Never understood athletes using their societal position to make political statements or protesting.

Do they start to believe that all those screaming fans care about them deeply as a human rather than as just another player in a uniform?

Anyway I don't know why BYU thought it needs to apologize now for something two other groups did so long ago ...it happened before the current group of players parents were born. But nothing woke makes sense other than it making great headlines and virtue signaling.

I do hope the Wyoming players who were still bothered by this can now let it go and move on, although they might be asking themselves why Wyoming and COPB had not apologized.

I present to you exhibit A about why these things do matter. Jesse Owens at the Berlin Olympics in 1936 after winning the gold medal. Note also that while everyone else has the Hitler salute, Jesse Owens is saluting the American flag.

[Niemand]

Never understood athletes using their societal position to make political statements or protesting.

Do they start to believe that all those screaming fans care about them deeply as a human rather than as just another player in a uniform?

Anyway I don't know why BYU thought it needs to apologize now for something two other groups did so long ago ...it happened before the current group of players parents were born. But nothing woke makes sense other than it making great headlines and virtue signaling.

I do hope the Wyoming players who were still bothered by this can now let it go and move on, although they might be asking themselves why Wyoming and COPB had not apologized.

I present to you exhibit A about why these things do matter. Jesse Owens at the Berlin Olympics in 1936 after winning the gold medal. Note also that while everyone else has the Hitler salute, Jesse Owens is saluting the American flag.

Thing is... that didn't matter. Owens himself went home, got a low paid job and melted into obscurity. Two years later, Germany gobbled up bits of Czechoslovakia. Three years later Germany invaded Poland and ended up at war with France and the Commonwealth. Five years later and Germany was at war with the USSR and USA.

So of very minor importance in the scheme of things.

If I remember rightly Hitler himself clapped at Owens and may have even shaken his hand. But none of that mattered in the long run.

[Christianlee]

Virtue signaling at its finest.

[sevenbak]

Virtue signaling at its finest.

Not even close. So many out there think like you do. I worked on this project with my students and I can tell you this has been something that has been in the works for some time, this isn’t a PR stunt by any means. In fact the university higharchy or the church didn’t even know of our project until the last few weeks. We’ve been planning this for about a year and started traveling and shooting back in early May. The Black 14 were invited to campus at our request, in the school of communications, to coincide with this long planned game against Wyoming, not the university’s invite. I would say the Lord has remarkable timing! The documentary that we did on their story can be seen here. This is about way more than a headline and these are great men doing great things.

https://universe.byu.edu/2022/09/23/byu ... FUrH3DsuIs

[Hugh Akston]

I’m finding it harder to financially contribute to an organization that is giving hundreds of millions away for restitution, tribute and indulgence not to mention the hundreds of millions annually to BYU that has become an embarrassing cess pool of entitlement and woke-lite mediocrity.

[The Red Pill]

If the church wants to really do something meaningful...they should come clean about the original racist in the church...Brigham Young...who brought slavery to Utah and banned blacks from the priesthood. He also spoke openly about preventing blacks from being in ANY leadership role, civic or religious.

Change the name of BYU...and come clean about the past history.

I know...they are never going to apologize for anything.

An organization that pretends the clot-shot isn't causing harm and death of it's own membership...is never going to come clean.

[p8riot]

I don't have a problem with it in and of itself. Those players deserve to have in-person apologies and hopefully it will give them some closure. I think they took the opportunity to do it before they start dying off. The optics of the timing of all the church diversity push and racial soul searching smacks of insincerity though coming on the heals of the BLM the last few years. Just like in a recent general conference when they made a big show of having primary kids singing from all over the world. Stuff like that has always touched my heart to know that the gospel is for everyone. But it was so in-your-face and made me think "Why now? Why haven't we been doing this all along?" instead of conveniently showcasing how non-racist we are as soon as race became a hot topic in society.

[Serragon]

I don't have a problem with it in and of itself. Those players deserve to have in-person apologies and hopefully it will give them some closure. I think they took the opportunity to do it before they start dying off. The optics of the timing of all the church diversity push and racial soul searching smacks of insincerity though coming on the heals of the BLM the last few years. Just like in a recent general conference when they made a big show of having primary kids singing from all over the world. Stuff like that has always touched my heart to know that the gospel is for everyone. But it was so in-your-face and made me think "Why now? Why haven't we been doing this all along?" instead of conveniently showcasing how non-racist we are as soon as race became a hot topic in society.

I think you hit the nail on the head. For the members, our church has really become about heavily choreographed and scripted events meant to elicit emotion from the consumer and have them act on that emotion. And for the rest of the world, it is about heavily choreographed and scripted events and articles that signal that we are no different than you.

It is really strange to me to go to church and listen to people in my quorum and in sunday school talk about the church and the Q15 as though they are still the church they remember being a part of in in the 70s - 90s. While at the same time seeing just how different our doctrinal positions are and how childishly our members are treated by our leaders.

Read some conference talks from the 70s or 80s. Look at how our leaders responded to sinful behaviors and ideas. And compare to how that is done now. Are the members of the church more committed now with this new teaching? Are they more faithful? Do they understand the doctrine of Christ and the purpose of the restoration better now? Are we more unified as Saints today?

The house is burning down around us, and most are happy as long as they can be reassured by those in whom their faith resides. It really is astonishing.

[Fred]

I’m finding it harder to financially contribute to an organization that is giving hundreds of millions away for restitution, tribute and indulgence not to mention the hundreds of millions annually to BYU that has become an embarrassing cess pool of entitlement and woke-lite mediocrity.

How about the $50 million to Black Lives Matter to burn down Wendys, loot stores, promote violence, and attempt to lead people from Christ to satan?

[FrankOne]

Virtue signaling at its finest.

Not even close. So many out there think like you do. I worked on this project with my students and I can tell you this has been something that has been in the works for some time, this isn’t a PR stunt by any means. In fact the university higharchy or the church didn’t even know of our project until the last few weeks. We’ve been planning this for about a year and started traveling and shooting back in early May. The Black 14 were invited to campus at our request, in the school of communications, to coincide with this long planned game against Wyoming, not the university’s invite. I would say the Lord has remarkable timing! The documentary that we did on their story can be seen here. This is about way more than a headline and these are great men doing great things.

https://universe.byu.edu/2022/09/23/byu ... FUrH3DsuIs

Could I ask who was the specific person which first suggested it.?The actual initiating individual or office that suggested it. It doesn't need to be a name, just a title ie, student, teacher, administrator. If it came as a memo from an office , which office?

[FrankOne]

I’m finding it harder to financially contribute to an organization that is giving hundreds of millions away for restitution, tribute and indulgence not to mention the hundreds of millions annually to BYU that has become an embarrassing cess pool of entitlement and woke-lite mediocrity.

How about the $50 million to Black Lives Matter to burn down Wendys, loot stores, promote violence, and attempt to lead people from Christ to satan?

Just to clarify, the LDS Corporation gave 50 million to BLM? It would be interesting to read from a link if it's handy, if not, It's no big deal. I've heard this before. Giving 50 million to BLM is no different than giving 50 million to the Black Panthers or some other violent extremist group.

[BeNotDeceived]

When I see this thread title it makes me think about a Blackfoot 14 foot basketball player, and would she fit in.

[Fred]

I’m finding it harder to financially contribute to an organization that is giving hundreds of millions away for restitution, tribute and indulgence not to mention the hundreds of millions annually to BYU that has become an embarrassing cess pool of entitlement and woke-lite mediocrity.

How about the $50 million to Black Lives Matter to burn down Wendys, loot stores, promote violence, and attempt to lead people from Christ to satan?

Just to clarify, the LDS Corporation gave 50 million to BLM? It would be interesting to read from a link if it's handy, if not, It's no big deal. I've heard this before. Giving 50 million to BLM is no different than giving 50 million to the Black Panthers or some other violent extremist group.

Here is $10 million to NAACP https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2021/06 ... -donating/

Here is an official church logo:

http://ldswomenproject.com/wp-content/u ... 50x750.jpg in case the above image does not resolve

Here is how BLM feels about a church:
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/an ... h-the-real

I couldn't find the link where the church was bragging about their large donation to BLM. It was a real deal, though.

[abijah]

the era of it being the fashionable thing to signal these particular pseudovirtues won't last forever. that's the nature of these things, they're ultimately just trends.

the church has spent a good portion of it's remaining credibility for a mess of pottage this recent decade or so. at this rate i reckon the church will become basically irrelevant before too long, in the Lord's eyes, as well as saints who're actually serious about what they believe. that's what happens when you dilute yourself to the point where there's no savour anymore.

[Sunain]

Virtue signaling at its finest.

I'm ashamed at the way the leaders of the church are running things. They are very prideful and no longer lead by the spirit.

These evil organizations keep wanting reparations for the past. Move on, look forward to the future President Nelson, not the past. Take your own advice.

Isaiah 43:18 - Remember ye not the former things, neither consider the things of old.

[Vision]

Good, BYU should honor them.

[Fred]

Virtue signaling at its finest.

I'm ashamed at the way the leaders of the church are running things. They are very prideful and no longer lead by the spirit.

These evil organizations keep wanting reparations for the past. Move on, look forward to the future President Nelson, not the past. Take your own advice.

Isaiah 43:18 - Remember ye not the former things, neither consider the things of old.

Besides, it was the blacks that first sold other blacks. They would have to go to Africa to get reparations.

[Fred]

the era of it being the fashionable thing to signal these particular pseudovirtues won't last forever. that's the nature of these things, they're ultimately just trends.

the church has spent a good portion of it's remaining credibility for a mess of pottage this recent decade or so. at this rate i reckon the church will become basically irrelevant before too long, in the Lord's eyes, as well as saints who're actually serious about what they believe. that's what happens when you dilute yourself to the point where there's no savour anymore.

Was Kiwi Farms your website?

[Serragon]

Some say we should honor the men. Some say we need to apologize for our racist past. Some say we should only look forward, not backwards. There are lots of opinions.

But the real problem here is that the Church has created this confusion and dissension by trying to play both sides of the fence at the same time. They have never given an explanation for any of the actions surrounding blacks and the priesthood. This not only allows, but requires that people come up with their own explanations and opinions regarding this matter so they can somehow try and balance in their minds that the Church is still operating under the guidance of Christ and was also operating under the guidance of Christ in the past.

It is well documented that every church president and nearly every apostle from Brigham Young to Kimball taught that it was doctrinal that people of African descent could not have the priesthood. There were very detailed explanations given of why this was so. And the church policy reflected that doctrinal teaching.

But in the late 70's this changed. A new doctrine was revealed through council and prayer instead of direct revelation. Those of African descent can now have the priesthood. The teachings about the lineage of the African were still in place, but it seems the Lord had now given His permission overlook that tribal distinction and authorize them to wield His priesthood power. Why did God now authorize the change? We are never told, but it is curious that it corresponded almost directly with the civil rights movement and a change in worldly sentiments.

Over time, the leaders began teaching that those stories about lineage were wrong and disavowed them. They taught that what was previously taught and done was never doctrine. And they began teaching that those previous doctrines were a result of racist sentiments of the day, and that our prophets were simply men of their times. They even began disavowing some of the teachings of ancient prophets like Nephi or that God would ever visibly curse a people with a change in skin tone. Why did this happen? Again, we aren't told, but it is curious that these teachings and disavowals seem to correspond directly to the sentiments of those who hold power in our world.

So now we have a serious issue on our hands. We are told that we need to follow today's prophet because he truly speaks for God and cannot lead you astray. But we are simultaneously told by this very same man that all of the previous prophets were teaching false doctrine and ascribing it to revelation from God, and that great evils was done as a consequence. And it is the fact that a succession of laying on of hands from these men who led everyone astray in a rather stupendous fashion that the current prophet claims his authority.

If the previous men were so susceptible to societal biases and bigotry that they believed those ideas were from God, how can we believe that RMN is somehow above such things and that the changes he is currently making, like the feminization of the temple ordinances and the acceptance of homosexuality as something normal and not sinful are from God and not from his own biases and bigotry?

If all modern doctrines can be redefined or discarded by future prophets, what good are they?

This to me is the real problem and is the cause of the debates we see. And since the church continues to destroy its foundation while claiming that the visible structure will never fail you, we will continue to have greater and greater dissension. Everyone will come up with their own explanations for these irreconcilable teachings.

But I see no resolution or explanation forthcoming from our current leadership, because I don't think they have any clue what to do with the conundrum they have created. Instead, they continue to pretend there is no massive crack in the foundation, and continue to teach that your only real task in this life is to follow them to heaven with exactness. And continue to lose members as they realize that the entire edifice built since Joseph died appears to be nothing more than a house of cards.

[Christianlee]

Virtue signaling at its finest.

I'm ashamed at the way the leaders of the church are running things. They are very prideful and no longer lead by the spirit.

These evil organizations keep wanting reparations for the past. Move on, look forward to the future President Nelson, not the past. Take your own advice.

Isaiah 43:18 - Remember ye not the former things, neither consider the things of old.

It sounds as if this idea may have come from the liberal elements in the Communications Department at BYU. We were always told back then that at some future time blacks would get the priesthood. That time arrived in 1978. So they are really questioning the Lord’s will in the matter.

[Fred]

Some say we should honor the men. Some say we need to apologize for our racist past. Some say we should only look forward, not backwards. There are lots of opinions.

But the real problem here is that the Church has created this confusion and dissension by trying to play both sides of the fence at the same time. They have never given an explanation for any of the actions surrounding blacks and the priesthood. This not only allows, but requires that people come up with their own explanations and opinions regarding this matter so they can somehow try and balance in their minds that the Church is still operating under the guidance of Christ and was also operating under the guidance of Christ in the past.

It is well documented that every church president and nearly every apostle from Brigham Young to Kimball taught that it was doctrinal that people of African descent could not have the priesthood. There were very detailed explanations given of why this was so. And the church policy reflected that doctrinal teaching.

But in the late 70's this changed. A new doctrine was revealed through council and prayer instead of direct revelation. Those of African descent can now have the priesthood. The teachings about the lineage of the African were still in place, but it seems the Lord had now given His permission overlook that tribal distinction and authorize them to wield His priesthood power. Why did God now authorize the change? We are never told, but it is curious that it corresponded almost directly with the civil rights movement and a change in worldly sentiments.

Over time, the leaders began teaching that those stories about lineage were wrong and disavowed them. They taught that what was previously taught and done was never doctrine. And they began teaching that those previous doctrines were a result of racist sentiments of the day, and that our prophets were simply men of their times. They even began disavowing some of the teachings of ancient prophets like Nephi or that God would ever visibly curse a people with a change in skin tone. Why did this happen? Again, we aren't told, but it is curious that these teachings and disavowals seem to correspond directly to the sentiments of those who hold power in our world.

So now we have a serious issue on our hands. We are told that we need to follow today's prophet because he truly speaks for God and cannot lead you astray. But we are simultaneously told by this very same man that all of the previous prophets were teaching false doctrine and ascribing it to revelation from God, and that great evils was done as a consequence. And it is the fact that a succession of laying on of hands from these men who led everyone astray in a rather stupendous fashion that the current prophet claims his authority.

If the previous men were so susceptible to societal biases and bigotry that they believed those ideas were from God, how can we believe that RMN is somehow above such things and that the changes he is currently making, like the feminization of the temple ordinances and the acceptance of homosexuality as something normal and not sinful are from God and not from his own biases and bigotry?

If all modern doctrines can be redefined or discarded by future prophets, what good are they?

This to me is the real problem and is the cause of the debates we see. And since the church continues to destroy its foundation while claiming that the visible structure will never fail you, we will continue to have greater and greater dissension. Everyone will come up with their own explanations for these irreconcilable teachings.

But I see no resolution or explanation forthcoming from our current leadership, because I don't think they have any clue what to do with the conundrum they have created. Instead, they continue to pretend there is no massive crack in the foundation, and continue to teach that your only real task in this life is to follow them to heaven with exactness. And continue to lose members as they realize that the entire edifice built since Joseph died appears to be nothing more than a house of cards.

When I was a kid, I was taught that blacks were cursed because of Cain. Since later blacks can not be accountable for Cain's transgression, I was told that our circumstances we are born into is based on our past. Not all spirits were equal in valiance. So those lazy bum cheaters could be born into circumstances that they would fit. But that God loved all and everyone had the same opportunity to be good.

That was probably never the official narrative. But it should have been. People taking personal responsibility for their own circumstances. Anyone can get to anywhere else from anywhere. But to get someplace, one must first know where they are. Then they can plot a course. So if I was born black in a ghetto, because I was less valiant in the preexistence, then I better work on being more valiant and not blame it on a white guy.

Duh!

If the church declares Brigham Young made a mistake, that blows the never be led astray theory. Better to make it a revelation. It was, you know. The lawyers revealed that if the church did not welcome blacks, they would not be able to overcome it.

[abijah]

Was Kiwi Farms your website?

no just a user moment of silence for fellow lds fallen kiwis