Looking Beyond the Mark: The Davidic Servant

[Amonhi]

Here's another reference in the D&C 10 where the Lord tells us his doctrine and Gospel are contained in the Book of Mormon and declaring more or less than this comes of evil showing that his statement applies today as much as when Nephi said it and as much as when Jesus said it. H also say what I have been saying which is "Whosoever declareth more or less than this, the same is not of me, but is against me; therefore he is not of my church."

Joseph Smith was translating the Book of Mormon in 1829 and lost the 116 pages. The Lord said that the Book of Mormon would "bring to light my gospel" and "bring to light the true points of my doctrine, yea, and the only doctrine which is in me." the Lord said that through the record of the Nephites he would establish his gospel and stop the "contention concerning the points of my doctrine."

D&C 10
62 Yea, and I will also bring to light my gospel which was ministered unto them, and, behold, they shall not deny that which you have received, but they shall build it up, and shall bring to light the true points of my doctrine, yea, and the only doctrine which is in me.
63 And this I do that I may establish my gospel, that there may not be so much contention; yea, Satan doth stir up the hearts of the people to contention concerning the points of my doctrine; and in these things they do err, for they do wrest the scriptures and do not understand them.
64 Therefore, I will unfold unto them this great mystery;
65 For, behold, I will gather them as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, if they will not harden their hearts;
66 Yea, if they will come, they may, and partake of the waters of life freely.
67 Behold, this is my doctrine—whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church.
68 Whosoever declareth more or less than this, the same is not of me, but is against me; therefore he is not of my church.
69 And now, behold, whosoever is of my church, and endureth of my church to the end, him will I establish upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them.

He's talking to you Artaxerxes and using "word games".

Peace,
Amonhi

[Artaxerxes]

Here's another reference in the D&C 10 where the Lord tells us his doctrine and Gospel are contained in the Book of Mormon and declaring more or less than this comes of evil showing that his statement applies today as much as when Nephi said it and as much as when Jesus said it. H also say what I have been saying which is "Whosoever declareth more or less than this, the same is not of me, but is against me; therefore he is not of my church."

Joseph Smith was translating the Book of Mormon in 1829 and lost the 116 pages. The Lord said that the Book of Mormon would "bring to light my gospel" and "bring to light the true points of my doctrine, yea, and the only doctrine which is in me." the Lord said that through the record of the Nephites he would establish his gospel and stop the "contention concerning the points of my doctrine."

D&C 10
62 Yea, and I will also bring to light my gospel which was ministered unto them, and, behold, they shall not deny that which you have received, but they shall build it up, and shall bring to light the true points of my doctrine, yea, and the only doctrine which is in me.
63 And this I do that I may establish my gospel, that there may not be so much contention; yea, Satan doth stir up the hearts of the people to contention concerning the points of my doctrine; and in these things they do err, for they do wrest the scriptures and do not understand them.
64 Therefore, I will unfold unto them this great mystery;
65 For, behold, I will gather them as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, if they will not harden their hearts;
66 Yea, if they will come, they may, and partake of the waters of life freely.
67 Behold, this is my doctrine—whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church.
68 Whosoever declareth more or less than this, the same is not of me, but is against me; therefore he is not of my church.
69 And now, behold, whosoever is of my church, and endureth of my church to the end, him will I establish upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them.

He's talking to you Artaxerxes and using "word games".

Peace,
Amonhi

You guys need to take it up with the Savior and tell Him why He was wrong to say that things like doing away with anger were part of His doctrine. Or you guys can stop cherry picking verses that support your desire to advocate sin. One of the two, I guess.

[Amonhi]

And another reference where Jesus says, "I'll tell you my gospel", "My gospel is", "that was my Gospel".

3 Nephi 27
8 And how be it my church save it be called in my name? For if a church be called in Moses’ name then it be Moses’ church; or if it be called in the name of a man then it be the church of a man; but if it be called in my name then it is my church, if it so be that they are built upon my gospel.
9 Verily I say unto you, that ye are built upon my gospel; therefore ye shall call whatsoever things ye do call, in my name; therefore if ye call upon the Father, for the church, if it be in my name the Father will hear you;
10 And if it so be that the church is built upon my gospel then will the Father show forth his own works in it.
11 But if it be not built upon my gospel, and is built upon the works of men, or upon the works of the devil, verily I say unto you they have joy in their works for a season, and by and by the end cometh, and they are hewn down and cast into the fire, from whence there is no return.
12 For their works do follow them, for it is because of their works that they are hewn down; therefore remember the things that I have told you.
13 Behold I have given unto you my gospel, and this is the gospel which I have given unto you—that I came into the world to do the will of my Father, because my Father sent me.
14 And my Father sent me that I might be lifted up upon the cross; and after that I had been lifted up upon the cross, that I might draw all men unto me, that as I have been lifted up by men even so should men be lifted up by the Father, to stand before me, to be judged of their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil—
15 And for this cause have I been lifted up; therefore, according to the power of the Father I will draw all men unto me, that they may be judged according to their works.
16 And it shall come to pass, that whoso repenteth and is baptized in my name shall be filled; and if he endureth to the end, behold, him will I hold guiltless before my Father at that day when I shall stand to judge the world.
17 And he that endureth not unto the end, the same is he that is also hewn down and cast into the fire, from whence they can no more return, because of the justice of the Father.
18 And this is the word which he hath given unto the children of men. And for this cause he fulfilleth the words which he hath given, and he lieth not, but fulfilleth all his words.
19 And no unclean thing can enter into his kingdom; therefore nothing entereth into his rest save it be those who have washed their garments in my blood, because of their faith, and the repentance of all their sins, and their faithfulness unto the end.
20 Now this is the commandment: Repent, all ye ends of the earth, and come unto me and be baptized in my name, that ye may be sanctified by the reception of the Holy Ghost, that ye may stand spotless before me at the last day.
21 Verily, verily, I say unto you, THIS is my gospel; and ye know the things that ye must do in my church; for the works which ye have seen me do that shall ye also do; for that which ye have seen me do even that shall ye do;

Peace,
Amonhi

[Redpilled Mormon]

You guys need to take it up with the Savior and tell Him why He was wrong to say that things like doing away with anger were part of His doctrine. Or you guys can stop cherry picking verses that support your desire to advocate sin. One of the two, I guess.

You've chosen an interesting line of attack. Let me see if I understand your argument... Even though the Savior himself strictly instructed to add nothing to nor take nothing away from his doctrine, it's still somehow ok for ldscorp to add in whatever they want because of what Christ says in verse 30 before listing the attributes of his doctrine:

"Behold, this is not my doctrine, to stir up the hearts of men with anger, one against another; but this is my doctrine, that such things should be done away."

Therefore since Christ himself adds in another element before even listing the attributes of his doctrine, which you have described as 'doing away with anger', then somehow it's ok for ldscorp to monkey around and add in any other element that 'sorta feels' like it ought to be lumped in.

Did I get your line of reasoning correct? If so, I think there's some flaws in your logic.

1 - Even if we grant the premise that there's a 'don't be angry' element to the doctrine, that does NOT provide for adding on any other piece to Christ's doctrine. Your own argument for other things being considered part of Christ's doctrine falls apart here, and you're only logically able to argue for 'don't be angry' being included.

2 - 'Don't be angry' is a gross oversimplification anyway. The actual wording is "this is my doctrine, that such things should be done away." So we have to go define what 'such things' would be. It's not as simple as 'anger'. The prior verses 28 and 29 give context that the Savior was speaking specifically about having 'the spirit of contention' and in reference to disputes of what is and is not part of his doctrine. Seems clear to me he's saying he's going to do away with any need for any of his followers to ever have to argue with each other about what does and does not constitute his doctrine. Which he immediately proceeds to do, in crystal clarity, by listing what his doctrine is, in no uncertain terms. He's saying 'there is no longer any need for contention over what is and is not part of the doctrine of Christ, because here it is, once and for all, in black and white simplicity'.

3 - Christ commanding us not to have the 'spirit of contention' is not the same thing as him saying: 'Never contend, under any circumstances. Just go along with whatever anyone says or does, no matter how evil.' I feel like this is kinda absurdly obvious, but I thought I would point it out. For example, Captain Moroni is not currently roasting in hell for daring to contend with Amalickiah imo.

[John Tavner]

Back to the OP, I wonder sometimes if the obsession with the Davidic servant might lead people to be deceived by the anti-christ/ dark prophet. It is almost like prepping them for it. Always hoping for this servant to put things in order as if that will change their lives without letting the Lord mold them in His image in teh meantime. Seems like a set up for major deception in the future. Just my two cents. I mean look at how half the church reacts to those who just call themselves prophets, seers and revelators. It is kind of like Islam and their end time prophet, which sounds a lot like the anti-christ. I just wonder how much Satan is screwing with us getting our focus on some man to save us rather than keeping our eye on Christ.

[Artaxerxes]

You guys need to take it up with the Savior and tell Him why He was wrong to say that things like doing away with anger were part of His doctrine. Or you guys can stop cherry picking verses that support your desire to advocate sin. One of the two, I guess.

You've chosen an interesting line of attack. Let me see if I understand your argument... Even though the Savior himself strictly instructed to add nothing to nor take nothing away from his doctrine, it's still somehow ok for ldscorp to add in whatever they want because of what Christ says in verse 30 before listing the attributes of his doctrine:

"Behold, this is not my doctrine, to stir up the hearts of men with anger, one against another; but this is my doctrine, that such things should be done away."

Therefore since Christ himself adds in another element before even listing the attributes of his doctrine, which you have described as 'doing away with anger', then somehow it's ok for ldscorp to monkey around and add in any other element that 'sorta feels' like it ought to be lumped in.

Did I get your line of reasoning correct? If so, I think there's some flaws in your logic.

1 - Even if we grant the premise that there's a 'don't be angry' element to the doctrine, that does NOT provide for adding on any other piece to Christ's doctrine. Your own argument for other things being considered part of Christ's doctrine falls apart here, and you're only logically able to argue for 'don't be angry' being included.

2 - 'Don't be angry' is a gross oversimplification anyway. The actual wording is "this is my doctrine, that such things should be done away." So we have to go define what 'such things' would be. It's not as simple as 'anger'. The prior verses 28 and 29 give context that the Savior was speaking specifically about having 'the spirit of contention' and in reference to disputes of what is and is not part of his doctrine. Seems clear to me he's saying he's going to do away with any need for any of his followers to ever have to argue with each other about what does and does not constitute his doctrine. Which he immediately proceeds to do, in crystal clarity, by listing what his doctrine is, in no uncertain terms. He's saying 'there is no longer any need for contention over what is and is not part of the doctrine of Christ, because here it is, once and for all, in black and white simplicity'.

3 - Christ commanding us not to have the 'spirit of contention' is not the same thing as him saying: 'Never contend, under any circumstances. Just go along with whatever anyone says or does, no matter how evil.' I feel like this is kinda absurdly obvious, but I thought I would point it out. For example, Captain Moroni is not currently roasting in hell for daring to contend with Amalickiah imo.

No. I'm saying that Jesus made clear what He was talking about.

And whoso believeth in me, and is baptized, the same shall be saved; and they are they who shall inherit the kingdom of God.
34 And whoso believeth not in me, and is not baptized, shall be damned.
35 Verily, verily, I say unto you, that this is my doctrine

Doctrine just means teaching. Obviously, this was not the only thing he taught. He was saying that this was his doctrine to inherit the kingdom of God. There are more teachings, but this is the only teaching to enter the kingdom of God. But as Nephi teaches so well, all is not done when we have done those things.

[darknesstolight]

Here's another reference in the D&C 10 where the Lord tells us his doctrine and Gospel are contained in the Book of Mormon and declaring more or less than this comes of evil showing that his statement applies today as much as when Nephi said it and as much as when Jesus said it. H also say what I have been saying which is "Whosoever declareth more or less than this, the same is not of me, but is against me; therefore he is not of my church."

Joseph Smith was translating the Book of Mormon in 1829 and lost the 116 pages. The Lord said that the Book of Mormon would "bring to light my gospel" and "bring to light the true points of my doctrine, yea, and the only doctrine which is in me." the Lord said that through the record of the Nephites he would establish his gospel and stop the "contention concerning the points of my doctrine."

D&C 10
62 Yea, and I will also bring to light my gospel which was ministered unto them, and, behold, they shall not deny that which you have received, but they shall build it up, and shall bring to light the true points of my doctrine, yea, and the only doctrine which is in me.
63 And this I do that I may establish my gospel, that there may not be so much contention; yea, Satan doth stir up the hearts of the people to contention concerning the points of my doctrine; and in these things they do err, for they do wrest the scriptures and do not understand them.
64 Therefore, I will unfold unto them this great mystery;
65 For, behold, I will gather them as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, if they will not harden their hearts;
66 Yea, if they will come, they may, and partake of the waters of life freely.
67 Behold, this is my doctrine—whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church.
68 Whosoever declareth more or less than this, the same is not of me, but is against me; therefore he is not of my church.
69 And now, behold, whosoever is of my church, and endureth of my church to the end, him will I establish upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them.

He's talking to you Artaxerxes and using "word games".

Peace,
Amonhi

You guys need to take it up with the Savior and tell Him why He was wrong to say that things like doing away with anger were part of His doctrine. Or you guys can stop cherry picking verses that support your desire to advocate sin. One of the two, I guess.

Of course we need to take it up with the Savior. That's besides the point though.

Jesus talks about a particular set of ideas that are related to each other in a deep way and He calls this set of ideas the Doctrine of Christ.

You remember how the Spirit matters most? So the Doctrine of Christ is a description of how a person may be like Christ and have the Spirit. It is what makes Jesus the Christ. And it is by following the iron rod, which is the Word and Spirit that we pick up our cross and carry it.

The way we receive this marvelous transformation of our nature so that we can be "indwelled" by the Spirit of Christ is to have faith in Christ enough to lead us to repent or to have a broken heart and a contrite spirit. This leads us to then being baptized by fire, which fire purifies us to be vessels ready to have the Holy Ghost.

This is the way we get the Holy Ghost and it is the doctrine of Christ that Jesus mentions in the Book of Mormon.

...

[SPIRIT]

Back to the OP, I wonder sometimes if the obsession with the Davidic servant might lead people to be deceived by the anti-christ/ dark prophet. It is almost like prepping them for it. Always hoping for this servant to put things in order as if that will change their lives without letting the Lord mold them in His image in teh meantime. Seems like a set up for major deception in the future. Just my two cents. I mean look at how half the church reacts to those who just call themselves prophets, seers and revelators. It is kind of like Islam and their end time prophet, which sounds a lot like the anti-christ. I just wonder how much Satan is screwing with us getting our focus on some man to save us rather than keeping our eye on Christ.

my brother, I know what you're saying,
I've thought about this very thing for years now.

Just this morning, again I was thinking - NO ONE IS PUTTING JESUS CHRIST FIRST - like we should -
al our focus and attention on Christ - keeping our eye on Him.

Just look at this forum !
All the garbage - useless things - that so many are wasting there time talking about -
so many arguing about the most ridiculous and trivial things.
SATAN IS RAGING HERE !
WHAT DIVERSION - LEADING SO MANY AWAY FROM THE LORD.

BUT - believe me - if you know Jesus -
you will also then know and recognize His servant when he comes -
and will realize - why you should be looking for him.

This alone says volumes, and why we should be keeping this commandment - 3 Nephi 23:1- 4
because this Davidic Servant - is the theme in Isaiah.

and to repeat myself - and as I've said before -
(all below is a comment I made in another thread)

"I believe this is one of the reasons the Lord gave us a commandment
to search diligently the words of Isaiah - for great are the words of Isaiah -
is "Because the servant is a forerunner to Jehovah’s coming to reign on the earth,
the roles of Jehovah and his servant are closely intertwined."

this end time servant's mission
will be more like Christ's than any other, he will personify Christ, and it's because of this,
and the scriptures that talk about him, that many have taken it to mean Christ, when it's really His servant.

that's all I'll say on this.
I've wasted enough time talking about it over the years in this forum.

You can believe what you want,
but Christ has a servant in these last days.
And ALL of Isaiah's words are for us - now,
and Christ has said that we are to study diligently Isaiah's words -
why ? not to just find out that it's talking about Him,
but because it's talking about His servant.
So it makes more sense - for Isaiah to be talking about the servant
than it does to be talking about Christ.

as I've previously posted -

"One of, if not THE most important thing relating to "Isaiah as Found in the Book of Mormon" is
Nephi's hidden message quoting Isaiah.
WHY did he do this ?
What, or WHO are these Chapters in Isaiah about ? **********


to repeat myself -
as far as I know, correct me if I'm wrong, but the book of Isaiah is the ONLY book, or words from a prophet that Jesus ever gave a commandment to read.

To all those of you who don't follow what Jesus said,
and do not keep this commandment; and don't think much of it, or care that much about it -

my question to you is;
WHY ? why would Jesus even tell us to read Isaiah; not only read but "search these things diligently; for great are the words of Isaiah."
Why ? !

3 Nephi 23:1- 4
1 "And now, behold, I say unto you,
that ye ought to search these things.
Yea, a commandment I give unto
you that ye search these things diligently;
for great are the words of Isaiah."

2 "For surely he spake as touching all things
concerning my people which are of the house of Israel;
therefore it must needs be that he must speak
also to the Gentiles."

3 "And all things that he spake (have been and shall be),
even according to the words which he spake."

4 "Therefore give heed to my words;
write the things which I have told you;
and according to the time and the will
of the Father they shall go forth unto the Gentiles."

I would really like to hear what your reasoning is,
and your answers - the excuses you have for not only not keeping this commandment, but even more,
WHY ? is Jesus telling us to do this ?

what's so interesting is -

First,
here we have the Lord saying to us to read Isaiah, and " search these things diligently;
for great are the words of Isaiah."
and even giving us a commandment to do it -
(yet we don't even stop and ask ourselves WHY ! much less do it) why should we search diligently the words of Isaiah ? ? ?

and then Second
when we do what the Lord said - lo and behold, what do we find in the very first chapter of Isaiah ! ?

Isaiah 1
4 Alas, a nation astray,a people weighed down by sin,
the offspring of wrongdoers,perverse children:
they have forsaken Jehovah,they have spurned
the Holy One of Israel, they have lapsed into APOSTASY.



*********
Why did Nephi, of all places, stop in the middle of his own writing and quote
chapters 48 and 49 of of Isaiah (compare 1 Nephi 20 and 21) WHY ?
http://www.isaiahexplained.com/48#commentary
http://www.isaiahexplained.com/49#commentary
maybe he is trying to tell us something using Isaiah that he was forbidden to say, 1 Nephi 14:28
that he "durst not speak" 1Nephi 22:29.
Maybe by using Isaiah's words, "Nephi is trying to tell us something indirectly what he himself cannot say directly.
"The things he was not permitted to say plainly - in order to protect those who may be spiritually vulnerable -
are quite appropriate for him to say indirectly.
He can do so at least in part by quoting Isaiah."

about the "Great and Marvelous work" - Israel's restoration,"apostasy among the people of the Lord as the stage for his fulfillment of prophetic events, a prophet's prophesying, the coming forth of new revelations, the Lord's servant hated by the wicked of his people,
the Lord's saving intervention, an endowment of divine power, Israel's physical restoration, a light amid apostasy,
release from bondage, a new exodus, a new wandering in the wilderness, divine guidance and miracles,
return from dispersion, assistance from Gentiles, the destruction of the wicked...."

**********
Jehovah’s servant
Isaiah 49
2 He has made my mouth like a sharp sword—in the shadow of his hand he hid me.He has made me into a polished arrow—in his quiver he kept me secret.

Jehovah’s “hiding” and “secreting” his servant suggests that the world knows nothing of his calling until the time Jehovah empowers him. Even Jehovah’s people don’t know him or are ignorant of him until he fulfills his mission: “You will summon a nation that you did not know; a nation that did not know you will hasten to you” (Isaiah 55:5). He himself, therefore, is one of the “new things” Jehovah does suddenly that test the loyalty of his people (Isaiah 42:9; 48:6-8; 51:4-11). The terms mouth, sword, hand, and arrow designate Jehovah’s servant metaphorically (Isaiah 31:8; 51:16; 62:2-3)"

[Amonhi]

Oliver Cowdery transcribed the Book of Mormon. The Lord said to him regarding the things he transcribed...

D&C 18
2 Behold, I have manifested unto you, by my Spirit in many instances, that the things which you have written, (the Book of Mormon) are true; wherefore you know that they are true.
3 And if you know that they are true, behold, I give unto you a commandment, that you rely upon the things which are written;
4 For in them are all things written concerning the foundation of my church, my gospel, and my rock.
5 Wherefore, if you shall build up my church, upon the foundation of my gospel and my rock, the gates of hell shall not prevail against you.

The Lord's words are to all of us today as well as to Oliver Cowdrey.

Peace,
Amonhi

[Luke]

^^ You guys need to realise that there’s no point whatsoever in having these conversations with trolls like Artaxerxes. Totally pointless. He is here to engage in polemics and apologetics. He has no desire to change his mind on anything, because his chosen middlemen have spoken.

[FrankOne]

You guys need to take it up with the Savior and tell Him why He was wrong to say that things like doing away with anger were part of His doctrine. Or you guys can stop cherry picking verses that support your desire to advocate sin. One of the two, I guess.

You've chosen an interesting line of attack. Let me see if I understand your argument... Even though the Savior himself strictly instructed to add nothing to nor take nothing away from his doctrine, it's still somehow ok for ldscorp to add in whatever they want because of what Christ says in verse 30 before listing the attributes of his doctrine:

"Behold, this is not my doctrine, to stir up the hearts of men with anger, one against another; but this is my doctrine, that such things should be done away."

Therefore since Christ himself adds in another element before even listing the attributes of his doctrine, which you have described as 'doing away with anger', then somehow it's ok for ldscorp to monkey around and add in any other element that 'sorta feels' like it ought to be lumped in.

Did I get your line of reasoning correct? If so, I think there's some flaws in your logic.

1 - Even if we grant the premise that there's a 'don't be angry' element to the doctrine, that does NOT provide for adding on any other piece to Christ's doctrine. Your own argument for other things being considered part of Christ's doctrine falls apart here, and you're only logically able to argue for 'don't be angry' being included.

2 - 'Don't be angry' is a gross oversimplification anyway. The actual wording is "this is my doctrine, that such things should be done away." So we have to go define what 'such things' would be. It's not as simple as 'anger'. The prior verses 28 and 29 give context that the Savior was speaking specifically about having 'the spirit of contention' and in reference to disputes of what is and is not part of his doctrine. Seems clear to me he's saying he's going to do away with any need for any of his followers to ever have to argue with each other about what does and does not constitute his doctrine. Which he immediately proceeds to do, in crystal clarity, by listing what his doctrine is, in no uncertain terms. He's saying 'there is no longer any need for contention over what is and is not part of the doctrine of Christ, because here it is, once and for all, in black and white simplicity'.

3 - Christ commanding us not to have the 'spirit of contention' is not the same thing as him saying: 'Never contend, under any circumstances. Just go along with whatever anyone says or does, no matter how evil.' I feel like this is kinda absurdly obvious, but I thought I would point it out. For example, Captain Moroni is not currently roasting in hell for daring to contend with Amalickiah imo.

good points^

my take is that the basis of contention is only slightly based in anger. A person can contend without any anger at all. I've seen "bible bashing" without any anger at all. My perspective is that the basis of contention is righteous indignation and pride. The opposite of these is humble and teachable.

I don't see how "the lord says Don't be angry" is relative to the subject. As said above, if someone is obviously in the wrong, posing another viewpoint isn't about anger, it's about being resolute.

On the flip side, I personally see anger as a base emotion which is to be discarded at some point in our learning process. When I have posited this in the past, those that like to justify their anger always bring up Christ overturning tables of the money changers. When I read that account, I see a man watching an event and adding in what he felt instead of what Christ felt. During the last few years, I have learned to question all words because they were written by men. The original apostles did not speak for Christ! They spoke of their understandings, NOT Christ's understandings. There is a huge difference, yet today, churches quote the original apostles as if every word is an absolute fact, which is plain silly.

[Amonhi]

He didn't give more doctrine?
"this is not my doctrine, to stir up the hearts of men with anger, one against another; but this is my doctrine, that such things should be done away."

No, he was not giving more doctrine here. He was not saying, "my doctrine is that such things should be done away", though I can see why you would read it that way because the wording can have multiple meanings. But to read it that way would be inconsistent with ALL the other scriptures that talk about his doctrine and his gospel. And it would mean that his doctrine was faith, repentance, baptism, then cometh the gift of the Holy Ghost and that such things should be done away, and to add to or take away from this list cometh of evil and opens the gates of hell. Even if that is what he was saying, it still does not include tithing, or the laws of commandments, or the temple, or endowment, etc. Jesus said that ALL of his doctrine was taught in 3 Nephi 11 and there is nothing more that is his doctrine besides what is taught in 3 Nephi 11. So, your argument is still a dead end even if you pulled in something taught in that chapter and called it his doctrine, it doesn't make what you are teaching correct when you saying things not taught in that chapter are also his doctrine. And, since there are several places in the scriptures that teach his doctrine where he tells us not to add or take away or that these are the only doctrines given him and accepted by the father, we can compare the chapters and find the common components and conclude that those common components are his doctrine and those uncommon components like "such things should be done away", are not his gospel. But your interpretation was not what he was saying.

Jesus was very clear to say that ALL of his doctrine is included in 3 Nephi 11 and that adding to or taking away from the doctrine taught in that chapter by Jesus comes of evil and opens the gates of hell. Nephi also said that all of the doctrine of Christ was taught in 2 Nephi 31 and that the doctrines taught in 2 Nephi 31 were the only doctrines accepted by the Father, and the Son and the Holy Ghost. I can't find the "doctrine" saying that such things should be done away in 2 Nephi 31 or in any of the other references where he said "this is my doctrine" or "this is my gospel". Also, Nephi told us in 2 Nephi 32 that The doctrine of Christ was that we "enter in by the way, and receive the Holy Ghost, it will show unto you all things what ye should do", and that there would be no other doctrine given accept this until Christ came in the flesh. This is the same doctrine repeated several times in both 2 Nephi 31 and 3 Nephi 11 where we are told it is the only doctrine of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. In none of these other references does it say that Christ's doctrine includes "that these things should be done away". The other way to read that verse is with the comma between "doctrine" and "that" which means "I'm telling you my doctrine, so that the disputing about my doctrine will stop among you" or "this is my doctrine, that such things should be done away". Not "my doctrine is that such things should be done away." (no comma) This reading of the verse is consistent with D&C 10 which says the following.

D&C 10
62 Yea, and I will also, (through the Book of Mormon), bring to light my gospel which was ministered unto them, (the Nephites), and, behold, they shall not deny that which you have received, but they shall build it up, and shall bring to light the true points of my doctrine, yea, and the only doctrine which is in me.
63 And this I do that I may establish my gospel, that there may not be so much contention; yea, Satan doth stir up the hearts of the people to contention concerning the points of my doctrine; and in these things they do err, for they do wrest the scriptures and do not understand them.

I'm amazed you guys consistently downplay the savior's own words. But when you have an ax to grind...

(Face Palm) Put the mirror down friend. I'm the one saying the Savior's words are important. You are the one calling them "word games" and using the dictionary definition for the word "doctrine" as a reason to reject, downplay and utterly ignore the fact that Jesus said adding to or taking away from what he taught as his doctrine comes of evil and opens the gates of hell. You are the one downplaying the Savior's words and criticizing me for up playing them and relying on them too much.

You guys have no idea how extremely important ALL of the saviors words are, and by cherry picking to only follow snippets when it agreed with you and gives you license to sin, you guys damn yourselves.

All of the Saviors words are important, but they are not all equally important. Some of the things he said are more important than other things he said. You are making ALL of the Savior's words equal with the specific words that are his doctrine. This is incorrect. And, as odd as it may sound to you, it is more important to speak positively about the Holy Ghost than it is to speak positively about Jesus Christ. And it is this principle which makes the Gospel or Doctrine of Christ more important than the other teachings of Christ because the doctrine of Christ is everything needed for a person to gain the Holy Ghost, and gaining the Holy Ghost is more important than following all the other teachings of Jesus which do not get a person the Holy Ghost. For example, Jesus said that to hate your neighbor in your heart is to commit murder in your heart. A person could find value in his teachings and apply that teaching and still not have the Holy Ghost or the Testimony of Christ gained through the Holy Ghost. If a person receives the teachings of Jesus but not a testimony of him or his gospel, they still only qualify for the Telestial Kingdom.

D&C 76
98 And the glory of the telestial is one, even as the glory of the stars is one; for as one star differs from another star in glory, even so differs one from another in glory in the telestial world;
99 For these are they who are of Paul, and of Apollos, and of Cephas.
100 These are they who say they are some of one and some of another—some of Christ and some of John, and some of Moses, and some of Elias, and some of Esaias, and some of Isaiah, and some of Enoch;
101 But received not the gospel, neither the testimony of Jesus, neither the prophets, neither the everlasting covenant.

The Telestial may have accepted some of the teachings of Christ, but they didn't receive the Gospel of Jesus Christ and so they remain Telestial. Yes, the doctrines of Christ and his gospel are more important than any of his other words. The reason again is because they are the steps a person needs to take to receive the Holy Ghost. How important is the Holy Ghost as compared to Jesus Christ?

Well, Jesus Christ is VERY important, but you can blaspheme him and speak evil about him and still be forgiven. You cannot blaspheme or speak evil of the Holy Ghost and be forgiven. Speaking against Jesus is pardonable, but speaking against the Holy Ghost is unpardonable. This is how Jesus said this.

Matthew 12:31–32
31 ¶ Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

The Gospel is all about receiving and following the Holy Ghost. Jesus, who is the Son of Man, said that if you speak evil against him it can be forgiven, but if you speak evil against the Holy Ghost it will not be forgiven you. This clearly places a higher priority on the importance of following the Holy Ghost. Just as the Holy Ghost has a special place in our lives, so too does the gospel and doctrine of Christ which is given for us to receive the Holy Ghost. It takes priority and precedence over all other principles, ordinances, teachings and commandments. It is the MOST important thing we can learn, understand and follow, more than all the other teachings of Christ. That's why it alone is the doctrine, and nothing else ranks equal with it in importance and priority.

But that is only the beginning...

Look at the promise given for following the doctrine and gospel of Christ as compared with the curse for not. This promise is repeated again and again the same way.

I'll mark the blessing for following the doctrine and gospel in green and the curse for not following in red so it is easier to see...

3 Nephi 11
39 Verily, verily, I say unto you, that this is my doctrine, and whoso buildeth upon this buildeth upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them.
40 And whoso shall declare more or less than this, and establish it for my doctrine, the same cometh of evil, and is not built upon my rock; but he buildeth upon a sandy foundation, and the gates of hell stand open to receive such when the floods come and the winds beat upon them.

D&C 10
67 Behold, this is my doctrine—whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church.
68 Whosoever declareth more or less than this, the same is not of me, but is against me; therefore he is not of my church.
69 And now, behold, whosoever is of my church, and endureth of my church to the end, him will I establish upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them.

Oliver Cowdery transcribed the Book of Mormon and the Lord said to him the following:

D&C 18
2 Behold, I have manifested unto you, by my Spirit in many instances, that the things which you have written, (the Book of Mormon) are true; wherefore you know that they are true.
3 And if you know that they are true, behold, I give unto you a commandment, that you rely upon the things which are written;
4 For in them are all things written concerning the foundation of my church, my gospel, and my rock.
5 Wherefore, if you shall build up my church, upon the foundation of my gospel and my rock, the gates of hell shall not prevail against you.

Matt. 16
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven, (by the spirit whaich is neither flesh nor blood).
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

D&C 33
11 Yea, repent and be baptized, every one of you, for a remission of your sins; yea, be baptized even by water, and then cometh the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost.
12 Behold, verily, verily, I say unto you, this is my gospel; and remember that they shall have faith in me or they can in nowise be saved;
13 And upon this rock I will build my church; yea, upon this rock ye are built, and if ye continue, the gates of hell shall not prevail against you.

Hel. 5
12 And now, my sons, remember, remember that it is upon the rock of our Redeemer, who is Christ, the Son of God, that ye must build your foundation; that when the devil shall send forth his mighty winds, yea, his shafts in the whirlwind, yea, when all his hail and his mighty storm shall beat upon you, it shall have no power over you to drag you down to the gulf of misery and endless wo, because of the rock upon which ye are built, which is a sure foundation, a foundation whereon if men build they cannot fall.

3 Nephi 18
11 And this (Administer the Sacrament as a continual reminder of Christ) shall ye always do to those who repent and are baptized in my name; and ye shall do it in remembrance of my blood, which I have shed for you, that ye may witness unto the Father that ye do always remember me. And if ye do always remember me ye shall have my Spirit to be with you.
12 And I give unto you a commandment that ye shall do these things. And if ye shall always do these things blessed are ye, for ye are built upon my rock.
13 But whoso among you shall do more or less than these are not built upon my rock, but are built upon a sandy foundation; and when the rain descends, and the floods come, and the winds blow, and beat upon them, they shall fall, and the gates of hell are ready open to receive them.

The gospel is the process by which we get the spirit or the Holy Ghost. Having and following the Holy Ghost is the Rock on which we must build. It tells us the words of Christ from the philosophies of men, so building on the spirit is building on Christ. We are told that this is the only rock or sure foundation on which if we build we cannot fall. It doesn't say we are likely not to fall, it says we CANNOT Fall. On the other hand, if we do not build on this one and only rock, from which we cannot fall, then we are building on what is described as a sandy foundation from which we we will fall. It doesn't tell us that we are likely to fall if we build on the sand, it says we are guaranteed to fall if we build on the sand. Since there is only one rock, all other foundations are sand. If you build on prophets and apostles or following your leaders, then you are building on sand. If you are building on your understanding of the scriptures, then you are building on sand. If you are building on the teachings of Jesus Christ, then you are building on sand. If you are building on the Church approved curriculum, then you are really building on a sandy foundation.

There is only one rock and it is the rock of personal revelation from God through the spirit. Even if you learn truth, if it is received in any other way than by the spirit in personal revelation, then it is still not of God, because it is received via a sandy foundation and you are not built on the rock.

D&C 50
19 And again, he that receiveth the word of truth, doth he receive it by the Spirit of truth or some other way?
20 If it be some other way it is not of God.

Why? Why can't we take away from the doctrine of Christ and it still be considered his doctrine? Why are the gates of hell open to receive those who take even one point away from his doctrine?

Because...

• without true faith, they cannot receive the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost.
• without true repentance, they cannot receive the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost.
• without baptism, the power of God is not manifest to the children of men in the flesh, (D&C 84:20), and so they cannot "witness before the church that they have truly repented of all their sins" (D&C 20:37)
• without the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost, nothing else they have done or will do can save them. They have not entered in at the gate and are not on the path that leads to eternal life.

Because they have not been saved, the gates of hell are open to received them.

Why can't we add to the doctrine of Christ and it still be considered his doctrine? Why are the gates of hell open to receive those who add even one point to his doctrine?

Because...

• If a person has the gift of the Holy Ghost, and
• if the Holy Ghost is supposed to teach them all things, and
• if the Holy Ghost is supposed to tell them all things that they should do, then
• giving even one more doctrine, no matter what it is, is doing the Holy Ghost's job of telling a person what to believe or what to do.

For example, if you tell someone to pay tithing and that paying tithing is a doctrine of Christ, then you are telling them what the Holy Ghost is supposed to tell them. What if they are not supposed to pay tithing? (Not everyone should.)

If for example you tell teach a person about the pre-existence and call that teaching "doctrine" then you are teaching the person what is not your right to teach them and you are denying the Holy Ghost from teaching them all things. What if you teach something false or incorrect, like the church does ALL THE TIME? If we make those things doctrine, then they must be accepted without question, even if they are wrong.

Adding doctrines to Christ's doctrine is encroaching on the role, mission and purpose of having the Holy Ghost which is to teach us all things and show us all things that we should do. Every doctrine added to the doctrine of Christ is speaking evil of the Holy Ghost and saying that it is not capable of teaching you all things. Anything teaching that you call doctrine is being given and received without the spirit, because doctrines are given to people who don't have the spirit to help them get the spirit. Once we have the spirit, we are not to receive anything in any other way than by the spirit. Receiving anything, even if it is true, without the spirit means that it is not of God. There is only one rock and it is the rock of personal revelation from God through the spirit. Even if what was learn is true, if it is received in any other way than by the spirit in personal revelation, then it is still not of God, because it is received via a sandy foundation and encourages us to build on sandy foundations and not to build on the rock or sure foundation.

D&C 50
19 And again, he that receiveth the word of truth, doth he receive it by the Spirit of truth or some other way?
20 If it be some other way it is not of God.

Calling anything a doctrine except the four points of doctrine accepted by the Father, and the Son and the Holy Ghost, is not of God because it is telling you to receive a word of truth by doctrine and not by the spirit.

Ultimately, if we didn't follow the Gospel of Jesus Christ because we accepted as truth that which was given by a prophet or Davidic Servant or some other true or false messenger and relied on a person or a position or a church teachings false doctrines, (any doctrine not given or accepted by Christ), then not only are we not following the gospel, but we are being blinded by the craftiness of men and will end up in the Telestial or Terrestrial and not the Celestial kingdom.

in D&C 76 we are told that the Telestial never accepted the Gospel nor the testimony of Christ, so they never entered in by the gate. We are also told that the Celestial are those who gained the testimony of Christ and walked the path that leads to eternal life and did everything required to reach the end of that path and were sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise to their eternal life. Anyone who did accept the Gospel and testimony of Christ is not Telestial because they didn't receive those things. And, Anyone who didn't reach the end of the path that leads to eternal life isn't Celestial, because the Celestial all reached the end of the path. Which means that if you started the path but never reached the end, then you by default will go to the Terrestrial where we are told that they had the testimony of Christ, but were not valiant in the testimony of Christ unto obtaining the crown, (Celestial Crown). The reason we are told that are not valiant in the testimony of Christ is because they were "blinded by the craftiness of men". This can only happen if they are accepting truth from some other way than by the spirit of truth. It means that they were not built on the rock and were not living the gospel of Jesus Christ.

D&C 76
75 These are they who are honorable men of the earth, who were blinded by the craftiness of men.
76 These are they who receive of his glory, but not of his fulness.
77 These are they who receive of the presence of the Son, but not of the fulness of the Father.
78 Wherefore, they are bodies terrestrial, and not bodies celestial, and differ in glory as the moon differs from the sun.
79 These are they who are not valiant in the testimony of Jesus; wherefore, they obtain not the crown over the kingdom of our God.
80 And now this is the end of the vision which we saw of the terrestrial, that the Lord commanded us to write while we were yet in the Spirit.

The ONLY way to walk the path that leads to eternal life is to receive and follow the spirit and let go of everything you have received accept by the spirit of truth. Question everything by hte spirit that you have learned from the church and from the prophets, and from Elliaison, and from me and your parents, and any other source than the Spirit of Truth. You cannot make it to the Celestial Kingdom by doing everything you are told by the church or by the Davidic Servant or by the prophet or by me. You must have your own revelation, be your own prophet and talk to God for yourself. In the temple endowment, when you are standing at the veil talking to the Lord through the veil, IT IS YOU that are talking to the Lord through the veil, not Peter, James and John. The person assisting you is playing the role of the Holy Ghost guiding you, telling you what to do, but you must do it. No one can speak to the Lord through the veil on your behalf or in proxy for you. If you do not learn to do it, then it will not happen. Only the spirit can properly guide you. Others can give you thoughts and advice and experience, but they can't do it for you.

If someone it telling you to "follow them" or "follow a prophet" and promising you that by doing so you will make it to the Celestial Kingdom, they are wrong and blinding you by the craftiness of men. They are telling you that some man can teach you all things and show you all things that you should do to qualify for the Celestial Kingdom. They are teaching you exactly contrary to the gospel of Jesus Christ and teaching you that which will ensure that you do not make it to the Celestial kingdom.

47 And EVERY ONE that hearkeneth to the voice of the Spirit cometh unto God, even the Father.

Adding to or taking away from the doctrine of Christ comes of evil and opens the gates of hell to receive people, (3 Nephi 11). As the Lord said to us in D&C 10,

D&C 10
62 Yea, and I will, (through the Book of Mormon), also bring to light my gospel which was ministered unto them, (the Nephites), and, behold, they shall not deny that which you have received, but they shall build it up, and shall bring to light the true points of my doctrine, yea, and the only doctrine which is in me.
63 And this I do that I may establish my gospel, that there may not be so much contention; yea, Satan doth stir up the hearts of the people to contention concerning the points of my doctrine; and in these things they do err, for they do wrest the scriptures and do not understand them.
...
67 Behold, this is my doctrine—whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church.
68 Whosoever declareth more or less than this, the same is not of me, but is against me; therefore he is not of my church.

Taking away or adding to Christ's doctrine either prevents people from getting the Holy Ghost or replaces the Holy Ghost in teaching and showing all things that you should do, which is not of God.

You guys really should read the scriptures before you all post again to prevent yourselves from displaying your gross ignorance. But, it's never stopped you guys before....

It's funny that you would say this since I am the one quoting scriptures, and you are the one giving your opinion rarely if at all backed by a scripture. You are the one teaching false doctrines and saying that you see no issue with doing so. You are the one who is saying that the Lord is playing word games even after I have consistently point out over 20 verses which are consistent in teaching that the the four points are the only doctrines and that the main purpose that the Book of Mormon was given was to end contention regarding Christ's doctrine and gospel and that to teach more or less than this and call it Christ's doctrine comes of evil and opens the gates of hell, and Whosoever declareth more or less than this, the same is not of me, but is against me; therefore he is not of my church..

You, Artaxerxes, are declaring more than this as Christ's doctrine. And so, you, Artaxerxes are not of Christ, but are against Christ, therefore you, Artaxerxes, are not of his church.

Also, the formalized, documented, published and preached, core, fundamental, basic doctrines and practices of a church teach for doctrines more than this and so it cannot possibly be his church. This is why the Lord condemned this church saying,

D&C 84
52 And whoso receiveth not my voice is not acquainted with my voice, and is not of me.
53 And by this you may know the righteous from the wicked, and that the whole world groaneth under sin and darkness even now.
54 And your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—
55 Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation.
56 And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all.
57 And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written

The Lord commanded us to have faith in him, repent, and be baptized and promised that if we did we would receive the Holy Ghost which would tell us and show us all things that we should do. This is his gospel and his doctrine. And anyone who teaches more or less than this and declares it his gospel or his doctrine is not of God but fights against God and opens the gates of hell to receive those who believe the false doctrine and false gospel they preach.

In the name of Jesus Christ, Amen

[Artaxerxes]

Yeah, he meant what he said: this was the doctrine for admission to the kingdom. Then he went on to give us more doctrine. I choose not to reject God's words because I think I have enough.

NO, he did not give us more doctrine and won't until he comes to us in the flesh. You call it a word game because you don't understand why the Father, the son and the Holy Ghost only recognize these four principles as doctrine. I do, and I agree with them that these need to be the only doctrines of Christ's gospel. But before talking about why, let's look at a little more of the "what".

Nephi had the Law of Moses which included all the commandments like keep the Sabbath day holy, thou shalt not kill, lie or steal, thou shalt have no other Gods before me, etc. and yet he still said that there was no other doctrine and would be no other doctrine until Christ will manifest himself in the flesh. This means that all the commandments and ordinances and information that he had and taught were not considered doctrine by Nephi.

2 Nephi 32
5 For behold, again I say unto you that if ye will enter in by the way, (faith, repentance, Baptism) and receive the Holy Ghost, it will show unto you all things what ye should do.
6 Behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and there will be no more doctrine given until after he shall manifest himself unto you in the flesh. And when he shall manifest himself unto you in the flesh, the things which he shall say unto you shall ye observe to do.

Nephi summarized the first three points of Christ's doctrine by saying, "if ye will enter in by the way" which was a reference to what he just taught in the previous chapter where he used the exact same words and promised that the Holy Ghost would come to us if we entered in by faith, repentance and baptism. So, in a single sentence, he taught the entire doctrine of Christ, reiterating his detailed extensive teachings in the previous chapter, then he said that "this IS the doctrine of Christ". He didn't mention any of the commandments, tithing or endowments, etc. Just like Jesus, he said, "THIS is it." Then he said there would be no other doctrine given until Christ came in the flesh. He could have been talking about Christ coming in 3 Nephi 11 or he could have been talking about the Second Comforter experience given to those who have their calling and election made sure. When Christ came in the flesh to the Nephites in 3 Nephi 11, the very first thing he taught was his doctrine when he said nothing more or less than this is my doctrine. So, everything that Nephi taught and all the things taught between Nephi and Christ, there was no new doctrine given. And, when Jesus arrived, he not only said there was still nothing new, he said to add or take away from this doctrine comes of evil and opens the gates of hell. To say that he then added to his own doctrine is to say that he taught what comes of evil and opens the gates of hell to receive people.

Jesus's own statement that anything more or less than this comes of evil and opens the gates of hell to receive such means that even he could not add to his own doctrine without coming of evil and opening the gates of hell to receive such.

I didn't want to walk through 2 Nephi 31 because like 3 Nephi 11, its long. But for the sake of showing that Nephi was in complete 100% agreement with Jesus in saying that these four things are the only doctrines of Christ. I think that 2 Nephi 32:5-6 quoted above shows that already, but since Nephi was so clear about what was and what was not doctrine of Christ, (he was playing the same word game Jesus was), I will. Again, this is the "what", not the "why". The what is all about what is doctrine and what is not. The why is all about why is this the only doctrine of the Father, the son and the holy Ghost.

To make this easier on me, I'll not skip any verses, but I will break them up with comments... I'll quote them in order without skipping.

2 Nephi 31
2 Wherefore, the things which I have written sufficeth me, save it be a few words which I must speak concerning the doctrine of Christ; wherefore, I shall speak unto you plainly, according to the plainness of my prophesying.
3 For my soul delighteth in plainness; for after this manner doth the Lord God work among the children of men. For the Lord God giveth light unto the understanding; for he speaketh unto men according to their language, unto their understanding.

He had just said finished teaching a whole bunch of stuff, and then he said, "the things which I have written sufficeth me, save it be a few words which I must speak concerning the doctrine of Christ;" This is his transition from what he was saying to the doctrine of Christ. He knows that what he was teaching before not part of "the doctrine of Christ". So, he ended what he was saying before and now he is going to talk to us about "the doctrine of Christ". So, we are going to look and see if he starts talking about faith, repentance, baptism and the Holy Ghost.

4 Wherefore, I would that ye should remember that I have spoken unto you concerning that prophet which the Lord showed unto me, that should baptize the Lamb of God, which should take away the sins of the world.
5 And now, if the Lamb of God, he being holy, should have need to be baptized by water, to fulfil all righteousness, O then, how much more need have we, being unholy, to be baptized, yea, even by water!
6 And now, I would ask of you, my beloved brethren, wherein the Lamb of God did fulfil all righteousness in being baptized by water?
7 Know ye not that he was holy? But notwithstanding he being holy, he showeth unto the children of men that, according to the flesh he humbleth himself before the Father, and witnesseth unto the Father that he would be obedient unto him in keeping his commandments.
8 Wherefore, after he was baptized with water the Holy Ghost descended upon him in the form of a dove.
9 And again, it showeth unto the children of men the straitness of the path, and the narrowness of the gate, by which they should enter, he having set the example before them.

Jesus gave us the example of living the doctrine of Christ and as a result, the Father gave him the Holy Ghost. He showed us how to live the doctrine of Christ by his example. This is the first time he teaches the doctrine of Christ since he stated he was going to teach it in the previous verse. He also defined this as the gate by which we enter.

10 And he said unto the children of men: Follow thou me. Wherefore, my beloved brethren, can we follow Jesus save we shall be willing to keep the commandments of the Father?
11 And the Father said: Repent ye, repent ye, and be baptized in the name of my Beloved Son.
12 And also, the voice of the Son came unto me, saying: He that is baptized in my name, to him will the Father give the Holy Ghost, like unto me; wherefore, follow me, and do the things which ye have seen me do.

This is the second time that the doctrine of Christ is taught by Nephi after he said he was going to start talking about the doctrine of Christ. Nephi says that these are the words of the Father and the Son.

As a side note, not really part of answering the question, "what is the doctrine of Christ?" ... The Son specifically said something RPM has pointed out a few times... "the Father will give the Holy Ghost, like unto Christ." How did Christ receive the Holy Ghost? It wasn't by the laying on of hands. I came upon him directly from God. This is and was a valid way to receive the Holy Ghost. But again, it's off topic, I just wanted to point out to RPM that his suspicions are correct and Nephi repeats this again in a few verses.

13 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, I know that if ye shall follow the Son, with full purpose of heart, acting no hypocrisy and no deception before God, but with real intent, repenting of your sins, witnessing unto the Father that ye are willing to take upon you the name of Christ, by baptism—yea, by following your Lord and your Savior down into the water, according to his word, behold, then shall ye receive the Holy Ghost; yea, then cometh the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost; and then can ye speak with the tongue of angels, and shout praises unto the Holy One of Israel.

This is the third time Nephi taught the doctrine of Christ after saying he was going to talk about it.

14 But, behold, my beloved brethren, thus came the voice of the Son unto me, saying: After ye have repented of your sins, and witnessed unto the Father that ye are willing to keep my commandments, by the baptism of water, and have received the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost, and can speak with a new tongue, yea, even with the tongue of angels, and after this should deny me, it would have been better for you that ye had not known me.
15 And I heard a voice from the Father, saying: Yea, the words of my Beloved are true and faithful. He that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.
16 And now, my beloved brethren, I know by this that unless a man shall endure to the end, in following the example of the Son of the living God, he cannot be saved.

This is the fourth time Nephi records the doctrine of Christ. But the Son tells us that if we start down this path and receive the doctrine of Christ, (faith in Christ, repentance, baptism by water and then receive the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost), and then after having been baptized with fire and the Holy Ghost we reject the doctrine of Christ by "denying him" (no longer having faith in Christ) or in other words nullifying the repentance and baptism, based on which we were given the Holy Ghost, then it would be better if we had never started down this path. For this reason, he tells us to "endure to the end" which means to not give up on the doctrine of Christ until the end when we reach eternal life at the end of the path. Another way of saying this is we just entered in at the gate and qualified for salvation by the doctrine of Christ. Don't exit the gate. Stay on this side of the gate or you cannot be saved.

17 Wherefore, do the things which I have told you I have seen that your Lord and your Redeemer should do; for, for this cause have they been shown unto me, that ye might know the gate by which ye should enter. For the gate by which ye should enter is repentance and baptism by water; and then cometh a remission of your sins by fire and by the Holy Ghost.

The fifth time he teaches the doctrine of Christ.

18 And then are ye in this strait and narrow path which leads to eternal life; yea, ye have entered in by the gate; ye have done according to the commandments of the Father and the Son; and ye have received the Holy Ghost, which witnesses of the Father and the Son, unto the fulfilling of the promise which he hath made, that if ye entered in by the way ye should receive.

Sixth time he teaches the doctrine of Christ, but adds some important insights.

• The last insight he gives us is that the Holy Ghost is promised to be given to everyone as soon as they enter in at the gate. If you haven't received the Holy Ghost, then you haven't entered in at the gate. Some people are baptized but don't really have faith in Christ. Maybe they have faith in their own works to save them, or they have faith in the baptism to save them, or faith in the church, etc. but they don't have faith in Christ. They aren't given the Holy Ghost because they didn't really enter in at the gate which requires faith in Christ. Some people get baptized and join the church but they aren't really repentant, so they don't get the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost. Whatever step they miss, if they don't get the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost, then they haven't entered in at the gate because the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost is promised to everyone who enters in at the gate correctly.
• First insight is that after we enter in at the gate, "ye in this strait and narrow path which leads to eternal life". We haven't gotten to eternal life yet, but we are on the path that leads to it. If we have not entered in at the gate, then we are not on the path that leads to eternal life. There is no hope of eternal life without entering in at the gate because there is no way to get on the path that leads to eternal life without entering in at the gate.
• The other insight we gather from his words here match up with what Jesus taught in John 10:1 where he said, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door (Gate) into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber." You CAN enter the church or "sheepfold" without going through the gate. People do it all the time. Let's say for example that you join the church but do not receive the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost which is promised to everyone who enters in at the gate. If you are a member of the Church but have not received the gift of the Holy Ghost, then you have entered in and not by the gate. This is what the Sacrament is administered for. It continually reminds us of the body and blood that was shed for us so we know where to look to receive the remission of our sins with the express purpose being, "that they may always have his spirit to be with them". In the Sacrament the gospel of Jesus Christ is preached every week to those who have already been baptized, but who do not "always have his spirit to be with them."

19 And now, my beloved brethren, after ye have gotten into this strait and narrow path, I would ask if all is done? Behold, I say unto you, Nay; for ye have not come thus far save it were by the word of Christ with unshaken faith in him, relying wholly upon the merits of him who is mighty to save.
20 Wherefore, ye must press forward with a steadfastness in Christ, having a perfect brightness of hope, and a love of God and of all men. Wherefore, if ye shall press forward, feasting upon the word of Christ, and endure to the end, behold, thus saith the Father: Ye shall have eternal life.

In these verses, Nephi is telling us to walk the path that leads to eternal life by "feasting on the words of Christ which only come by the Holy Ghost which we have now received since we entered in at the gate. We have entered in at the gate by the Gospel of Jesus Christ. but we must live by the Gospel which means feasting on the words of Christ which he said and says again in the next chapter is words spoken by the Holy Ghost. The only way to walk the path that leads to eternal life is to feast on the words of Christ which are spoken by the power of the Holy Ghost. That is the path. Follow the path and you'll reach eternal life. Leave the path and although you stayed behind the gate, you will not reach eternal life. Exit the gate by denying Christ and the covenants you made when you entered in at the gate and it will have been better for you to have not known him.

After teaching the gospel six times, he concludes by saying,

21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and THE ONLY and true DOCTRINE of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.

He started his remarks by telling us that he was ending his previous teachings and now going to speak to us about the doctrine of Christ. He taught the doctrine of Christ 6 times which doctrine matches up identically with what Jesus said in 3 Nephi 11. Then he concludes by saying THIS is the doctrine of Christ and the ONLY DOCTRINE of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. And then in the next chapter, he continues this thought process and reaffirming that this is the ONLY doctrine of Christ and that there will be no more doctrine given until Christ comes in the flesh by saying,

2 Nephi 32
5 For behold, AGAIN I say unto you that if ye will enter in by the way, (faith, repentance, Baptism) and receive the Holy Ghost, it will show unto you all things what ye should do.
6 Behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and there will be no more doctrine given until after he shall manifest himself unto you in the flesh. And when he shall manifest himself unto you in the flesh, the things which he shall say unto you shall ye observe to do.

Nephi is in complete agreement with Jesus Christ in 3 Nephi 11 when he says that THIS is the Doctrine of Christ and the ONLY doctrine of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.

Now, you call it "word play" because you were ignorant to this message and thought that the doctrine of Christ was every truth and commandment given by the church. Jesus said that your definition, which you received by learning from the church teachings and doctrines, comes of evil and opens the gates of hell to receive people. According to Nephi and Jesus it is important to define the doctrine of Christ correctly and that doctrine makes up his gospel and his church teaches his gospel correctly neither adding to nor taking away from the doctrines given by Christ. The LDS church does not because they like you before this discussion don't know the doctrine of Christ nor his gospel and they like you teach FALSE doctrines and a false Gospel which comes of evil and opens the gates of hell to receive people.

And I am amazed by the fact that after seeing what is clearly written your first response is to say it is simple word play and unimportant rather than ask for yourself why the Lord and his prophet Nephi would teach this. You downplay the savior's words because... you never were taught them by the church. because the church doesn't teach his doctrine nor his gospel, but they do teach a distortion of his doctrine which Jesus said "comes of evil and opens the gates of hell".

YOU can't even accept what Jesus said is his doctrine and nothing more than his doctrine and nothing less than his doctrine. You have no clue as to how etremely important this point is and why it is so important, so you down play it. But Jesus said it was so important that if a church doesn't teach his doctrine correctly, then it isn't his church. That's how important it is.

This post is long enough, so I will explain why it is significantly important that we understand his doctrine and teach it correctly in my next post. If you can wait to make another post until you read what I am about to post about why it is essential to teach his doctrine correctly, you might prevent yourself from displaying your gross ignorance further.

Peace,
Amonhi

He didn't give more doctrine?
"this is not my doctrine, to stir up the hearts of men with anger, one against another; but this is my doctrine, that such things should be done away."

No, he was not giving more doctrine here. He was not saying, "my doctrine is that such things should be done away", though I can see why you would read it that way because the wording can have multiple meanings. But to read it that way would be inconsistent with ALL the other scriptures that talk about his doctrine and his gospel. And it would mean that his doctrine was faith, repentance, baptism, then cometh the gift of the Holy Ghost and that such things should be done away, and to add to or take away from this list cometh of evil and opens the gates of hell.

Jesus was very clear to say that ALL of his doctrine is included in 3 Nephi 11 and that adding to or taking away from the doctrine taught in that chapter by Jesus comes of evil and opens the gates of hell. Nephi also said that all of the doctrine of Christ was taught in 2 Nephi 31 and that the doctrines taught in 2 Nephi 31 were the only doctrines accepted by the Father, and the Son and the Holy Ghost. I can't find the "doctrine" saying that such things should be done away in 2 Nephi 31. Also, Nephi told us in 2 Nephi 32 that The doctrine of Christ was that we "enter in by the way, and receive the Holy Ghost, it will show unto you all things what ye should do", and that there would be no other doctrine given accept this until Christ came in the flesh. This is the same doctrine repeated several times in both 2 Nephi 31 and 3 Nephi 11 where we are told it is the only doctrine of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. In none of these other references does it say that Christ's doctrine includes "that these things should be done away". The other way to read that verse is with the comma between "doctrine" and "that" which means "I'm telling you my doctrine, so that the disputing about my doctrine will stop among you" or "this is my doctrine, that such things should be done away". Not "my doctrine is that such things should be done away." (no comma)

I'm amazed you guys consistently downplay the savior's own words. But when you have an ax to grind...

(Face Palm) Put the mirror down friend.

You guys have no idea how extremely important ALL of the saviors words are, and by cherry picking to only follow snippets when it agreed with you and gives you license to sin, you guys damn yourselves.

All of the Saviors words are important, but they are not all equally important. Some of the things he said are more important than other things he said. You are making ALL of the Savior's words equal with the specific words that are his doctrine. This is incorrect. And, as odd as it may sound to you, it is more important to speak positively about the Holy Ghost than it is to speak positively about Jesus Christ. And it is this principle which makes the Gospel or Doctrine of Christ more important than the other teachings of Christ because the doctrine of Christ is everything needed for a person to gain the Holy Ghost, and gaining the Holy Ghost is more important than following all the other teachings of Jesus which do not get a person the Holy Ghost. For example, Jesus said that to hate your neighbor in your heart is to commit murder in your heart. A person could find value in his teachings and apply that teaching and still not have the Holy Ghost or the Testimony of Christ gained through the Holy Ghost. If a person receives the teachings of Jesus but not a testimony of him or his gospel, they still only qualify for the Telestial Kingdom.

D&C 76
98 And the glory of the telestial is one, even as the glory of the stars is one; for as one star differs from another star in glory, even so differs one from another in glory in the telestial world;
99 For these are they who are of Paul, and of Apollos, and of Cephas.
100 These are they who say they are some of one and some of another—some of Christ and some of John, and some of Moses, and some of Elias, and some of Esaias, and some of Isaiah, and some of Enoch;
101 But received not the gospel, neither the testimony of Jesus, neither the prophets, neither the everlasting covenant.

The Telestial may have accepted some of the teachings of Christ, but they didn't receive the Gospel of Jesus Christ and so they remain Telestial. Yes, the doctrines of Christ and his gospel are more important than any of his other words. The reason again is because they are the steps a person needs to take to receive the Holy Ghost. How important is the Holy Ghost as compared to Jesus Christ?

Well, Jesus Christ is VERY important, but you can blaspheme him and speak evil about him and still be forgiven. You cannot blaspheme or speak evil of the Holy Ghost and be forgiven. Speaking against Jesus is pardonable, but speaking against the Holy Ghost is unpardonable. This is how Jesus said this.

Matthew 12:31–32
31 ¶ Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

The Gospel is all about receiving and following the Holy Ghost. Jesus, who is the Son of Man, said that if you speak evil against him it can be forgiven, but if you speak evil against the Holy Ghost it will not be forgiven you. This clearly places a higher priority on the importance of following the Holy Ghost. Just as the Holy Ghost has a special place in our lives, so too does the gospel and doctrine of Christ which is given for us to receive the Holy Ghost. It takes priority and precedence over all other principles, ordinances, teachings and commandments. It is the MOST important thing we can learn, understand and follow, more than all the other teachings of Christ. That's why it alone is the doctrine, and nothing else ranks equal with it in importance and priority.

But that is only the beginning...

Look at the promise given for following the doctrine and gospel of Christ as compared with the curse for not. This promise is repeated again and again the same way.

I'll mark the blessing for following the doctrine and gospel in green and the curse for not following in red so it is easier to see...

3 Nephi 11
39 Verily, verily, I say unto you, that this is my doctrine, and whoso buildeth upon this buildeth upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them.
40 And whoso shall declare more or less than this, and establish it for my doctrine, the same cometh of evil, and is not built upon my rock; but he buildeth upon a sandy foundation, and the gates of hell stand open to receive such when the floods come and the winds beat upon them.

D&C 10
67 Behold, this is my doctrine—whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church.
68 Whosoever declareth more or less than this, the same is not of me, but is against me; therefore he is not of my church.
69 And now, behold, whosoever is of my church, and endureth of my church to the end, him will I establish upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them.

Oliver Cowdery transcribed the Book of Mormon and the Lord said to him the following:

D&C 18
2 Behold, I have manifested unto you, by my Spirit in many instances, that the things which you have written, (the Book of Mormon) are true; wherefore you know that they are true.
3 And if you know that they are true, behold, I give unto you a commandment, that you rely upon the things which are written;
4 For in them are all things written concerning the foundation of my church, my gospel, and my rock.
5 Wherefore, if you shall build up my church, upon the foundation of my gospel and my rock, the gates of hell shall not prevail against you.

Matt. 16
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven, (by the spirit whaich is neither flesh nor blood).
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

D&C 33
11 Yea, repent and be baptized, every one of you, for a remission of your sins; yea, be baptized even by water, and then cometh the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost.
12 Behold, verily, verily, I say unto you, this is my gospel; and remember that they shall have faith in me or they can in nowise be saved;
13 And upon this rock I will build my church; yea, upon this rock ye are built, and if ye continue, the gates of hell shall not prevail against you.

Hel. 5
12 And now, my sons, remember, remember that it is upon the rock of our Redeemer, who is Christ, the Son of God, that ye must build your foundation; that when the devil shall send forth his mighty winds, yea, his shafts in the whirlwind, yea, when all his hail and his mighty storm shall beat upon you, it shall have no power over you to drag you down to the gulf of misery and endless wo, because of the rock upon which ye are built, which is a sure foundation, a foundation whereon if men build they cannot fall.

3 Nephi 18
11 And this (Administer the Sacrament as a continual reminder of Christ) shall ye always do to those who repent and are baptized in my name; and ye shall do it in remembrance of my blood, which I have shed for you, that ye may witness unto the Father that ye do always remember me. And if ye do always remember me ye shall have my Spirit to be with you.
12 And I give unto you a commandment that ye shall do these things. And if ye shall always do these things blessed are ye, for ye are built upon my rock.
13 But whoso among you shall do more or less than these are not built upon my rock, but are built upon a sandy foundation; and when the rain descends, and the floods come, and the winds blow, and beat upon them, they shall fall, and the gates of hell are ready open to receive them.

The gospel is the process by which we get the spirit or the Holy Ghost. Having and following the Holy Ghost is the Rock on which we must build. It tells us the words of Christ from the philosophies of men, so building on the spirit is building on Christ. We are told that this is the only rock or sure foundation on which if we build we cannot fall. It doesn't say we are likely not to fall, it says we CANNOT Fall. On the other hand, if we do not build on this one and only rock, from which we cannot fall, then we are building on what is described as a sandy foundation from which we we will fall. It doesn't tell us that we are likely to fall if we build on the sand, it says we are guaranteed to fall if we build on the sand. Since there is only one rock, all other foundations are sand. If you build on prophets and apostles or following your leaders, then you are building on sand. If you are building on your understanding of the scriptures, then you are building on sand. If you are building on the teachings of Jesus Christ, then you are building on sand. If you are building on the Church approved curriculum, then you are really building on a sandy foundation.

There is only one rock and it is the rock of personal revelation from God through the spirit. Even if you learn truth, if it is received in any other way than by the spirit in personal revelation, then it is still not of God, because it is received via a sandy foundation and you are not built on the rock.

D&C 50
19 And again, he that receiveth the word of truth, doth he receive it by the Spirit of truth or some other way?
20 If it be some other way it is not of God.

Why? Why can't we take away from the doctrine of Christ and it still be considered his doctrine? Why are the gates of hell open to receive those who take even one point away from his doctrine?

Because...

• without true faith, they cannot receive the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost.
• without true repentance, they cannot receive the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost.
• without baptism, the power of God is not manifest to the children of men in the flesh, (D&C 84:20), and so they cannot "witness before the church that they have truly repented of all their sins" (D&C 20:37)
• without the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost, nothing else they have done or will do can save them. They have not entered in at the gate and are not on the path that leads to eternal life.

Because they have not been saved, the gates of hell are open to received them.

Why can't we add to the doctrine of Christ and it still be considered his doctrine? Why are the gates of hell open to receive those who add even one point to his doctrine?

Because...

• If a person has the gift of the Holy Ghost, and
• if the Holy Ghost is supposed to teach them all things, and
• if the Holy Ghost is supposed to tell them all things that they should do, then
• giving even one more doctrine, no matter what it is, is doing the Holy Ghost's job of telling a person what to believe or what to do.

For example, if you tell someone to pay tithing and that paying tithing is a doctrine of Christ, then you are telling them what the Holy Ghost is supposed to tell them. What if they are not supposed to pay tithing? (Not everyone should.)

If for example you tell teach a person about the pre-existence and call that teaching "doctrine" then you are teaching the person what is not your right to teach them and you are denying the Holy Ghost from teaching them all things. What if you teach something false or incorrect, like the church does ALL THE TIME? If we make those things doctrine, then they must be accepted without question, even if they are wrong.

Adding doctrines to Christ's doctrine is encroaching on the role, mission and purpose of having the Holy Ghost which is to teach us all things and show us all things that we should do. Every doctrine added to the doctrine of Christ is speaking evil of the Holy Ghost and saying that it is not capable of teaching you all things. Anything teaching that you call doctrine is being given and received without the spirit, because doctrines are given to people who don't have the spirit to help them get the spirit. Once we have the spirit, we are not to receive anything in any other way than by the spirit. Receiving anything, even if it is true, without the spirit means that it is not of God. There is only one rock and it is the rock of personal revelation from God through the spirit. Even if what was learn is true, if it is received in any other way than by the spirit in personal revelation, then it is still not of God, because it is received via a sandy foundation and encourages us to build on sandy foundations and not to build on the rock or sure foundation.

D&C 50
19 And again, he that receiveth the word of truth, doth he receive it by the Spirit of truth or some other way?
20 If it be some other way it is not of God.

Calling anything a doctrine except the four points of doctrine accepted by the Father, and the Son and the Holy Ghost, is not of God because it is telling you to receive a word of truth by doctrine and not by the spirit.

Ultimately, if we didn't follow the Gospel of Jesus Christ because we accepted as truth that which was given by a prophet or Davidic Servant or some other true or false messenger and relied on a person or a position or a church teachings false doctrines, (any doctrine not given or accepted by Christ), then not only are we not following the gospel, but we are being blinded by the craftiness of men and will end up in the Telestial or Terrestrial and not the Celestial kingdom.

in D&C 76 we are told that the Telestial never accepted the Gospel nor the testimony of Christ, so they never entered in by the gate. We are also told that the Celestial are those who gained the testimony of Christ and walked the path that leads to eternal life and did everything required to reach the end of that path and were sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise to their eternal life. Anyone who did accept the Gospel and testimony of Christ is not Telestial because they didn't receive those things. And, Anyone who didn't reach the end of the path that leads to eternal life isn't Celestial, because the Celestial all reached the end of the path. Which means that if you started the path but never reached the end, then you by default will go to the Terrestrial where we are told that they had the testimony of Christ, but were not valiant in the testimony of Christ unto obtaining the crown, (Celestial Crown). The reason we are told that are not valiant in the testimony of Christ is because they were "blinded by the craftiness of men". This can only happen if they are accepting truth from some other way than by the spirit of truth. It means that they were not built on the rock and were not living the gospel of Jesus Christ.

D&C 76
75 These are they who are honorable men of the earth, who were blinded by the craftiness of men.
76 These are they who receive of his glory, but not of his fulness.
77 These are they who receive of the presence of the Son, but not of the fulness of the Father.
78 Wherefore, they are bodies terrestrial, and not bodies celestial, and differ in glory as the moon differs from the sun.
79 These are they who are not valiant in the testimony of Jesus; wherefore, they obtain not the crown over the kingdom of our God.
80 And now this is the end of the vision which we saw of the terrestrial, that the Lord commanded us to write while we were yet in the Spirit.

The ONLY way to walk the path that leads to eternal life is to receive and follow the spirit and let go of everything you have received accept by the spirit of truth. Question everything by hte spirit that you have learned from the church and from the prophets, and from Elliaison, and from me and your parents, and any other source than the Spirit of Truth. You cannot make it to the Celestial Kingdom by doing everything you are told by the church or by the Davidic Servant or by the prophet or by me. You must have your own revelation, be your own prophet and talk to God for yourself. In the temple endowment, when you are standing at the veil talking to the Lord through the veil, IT IS YOU that are talking to the Lord through the veil, not Peter, James and John. The person assisting you is playing the role of the Holy Ghost guiding you, telling you what to do, but you must do it. No one can speak to the Lord through the veil on your behalf or in proxy for you. If you do not learn to do it, then it will not happen. Only the spirit can properly guide you. Others can give you thoughts and advice and experience, but they can't do it for you.

If someone it telling you to "follow them" or "follow a prophet" and promising you that by doing so you will make it to the Celestial Kingdom, they are wrong and blinding you by the craftiness of men. They are telling you that some man can teach you all things and show you all things that you should do to qualify for the Celestial Kingdom. They are teaching you exactly contrary to the gospel of Jesus Christ and teaching you that which will ensure that you do not make it to the Celestial kingdom.

47 And EVERY ONE that hearkeneth to the voice of the Spirit cometh unto God, even the Father.

Adding to or taking away from the doctrine of Christ comes of evil and opens the gates of hell to receive people, (3 Nephi 11). As the Lord said to us in D&C 10,

D&C 10
62 Yea, and I will, (through the Book of Mormon), also bring to light my gospel which was ministered unto them, (the Nephites), and, behold, they shall not deny that which you have received, but they shall build it up, and shall bring to light the true points of my doctrine, yea, and the only doctrine which is in me.
63 And this I do that I may establish my gospel, that there may not be so much contention; yea, Satan doth stir up the hearts of the people to contention concerning the points of my doctrine; and in these things they do err, for they do wrest the scriptures and do not understand them.
...
67 Behold, this is my doctrine—whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church.
68 Whosoever declareth more or less than this, the same is not of me, but is against me; therefore he is not of my church.

Taking away or adding to Christ's doctrine either prevents people from getting the Holy Ghost or replaces the Holy Ghost in teaching and showing all things that you should do, which is not of God.

You guys really should read the scriptures before you all post again to prevent yourselves from displaying your gross ignorance. But, it's never stopped you guys before....

It's funny that you would say this since I am the one quoting scriptures, and you are the one giving your opinion rarely if at all backed by a scripture. You are the one teaching false doctrines and saying that you see no issue with doing so. You are the one who is saying that the Lord is playing word games even after I have consistently point out over 20 verses which are consistent in teaching that the the four points are the only doctrines and that the main purpose that the Book of Mormon was given was to end contention regarding Christ's doctrine and gospel and that to teach more or less than this and call it Christ's doctrine comes of evil and opens the gates of hell, and Whosoever declareth more or less than this, the same is not of me, but is against me; therefore he is not of my church..

You, Artaxerxes, are declaring more than this as Christ's doctrine. And so, you, Artaxerxes are not of Christ, but are against Christ, therefore you, Artaxerxes, are not of his church.

Also, the formalized, documented, published and preached, core, fundamental, basic doctrines and practices of a church teach for doctrines more than this and so it cannot possibly be his church. This is why the Lord condemned this church saying,

D&C 84
52 And whoso receiveth not my voice is not acquainted with my voice, and is not of me.
53 And by this you may know the righteous from the wicked, and that the whole world groaneth under sin and darkness even now.
54 And your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—
55 Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation.
56 And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all.
57 And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written

The Lord commanded us to have faith in him, repent, and be baptized and promised that if we did we would receive the Holy Ghost which would tell us and show us all things that we should do. This is his gospel and his doctrine. And anyone who teaches more or less than this and declares it his gospel or his doctrine is not of God but fights against God and opens the gates of hell to receive those who believe the false doctrine and false gospel they preach.

In the name of Jesus Christ, Amen

No, it would simply mean you guys are misreading it. Jesus is perfectly clear. This is his doctrine (teaching) for admission to the kingdom of god. He has other doctrine. Lots of it.

2 Nephi 31 says the same thing. "there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end."

Nephi says that's not all (in other words, teaches another doctrine). "I would ask if all is done? Behold, I say unto you, Nay."

Jesus told us to follow the prophet. "and the day cometh that they who will not hear the voice of the Lord, neither the voice of his servants, neither give heed to the words of the prophets and apostles, shall be cut off from among the people;"

Again, you guys cherry pick which of Jesus's words you obey and which you don't. Be sure your entire goal is to justify your own sins, rather than keep the commandments.

[Amonhi]

You guys need to take it up with the Savior and tell Him why He was wrong to say that things like doing away with anger were part of His doctrine. Or you guys can stop cherry picking verses that support your desire to advocate sin. One of the two, I guess.

You've chosen an interesting line of attack. Let me see if I understand your argument... Even though the Savior himself strictly instructed to add nothing to nor take nothing away from his doctrine, it's still somehow ok for ldscorp to add in whatever they want because of what Christ says in verse 30 before listing the attributes of his doctrine:

"Behold, this is not my doctrine, to stir up the hearts of men with anger, one against another; but this is my doctrine, that such things should be done away."

Therefore since Christ himself adds in another element before even listing the attributes of his doctrine, which you have described as 'doing away with anger', then somehow it's ok for ldscorp to monkey around and add in any other element that 'sorta feels' like it ought to be lumped in.

Did I get your line of reasoning correct? If so, I think there's some flaws in your logic.

1 - Even if we grant the premise that there's a 'don't be angry' element to the doctrine, that does NOT provide for adding on any other piece to Christ's doctrine. Your own argument for other things being considered part of Christ's doctrine falls apart here, and you're only logically able to argue for 'don't be angry' being included.

2 - 'Don't be angry' is a gross oversimplification anyway. The actual wording is "this is my doctrine, that such things should be done away." So we have to go define what 'such things' would be. It's not as simple as 'anger'. The prior verses 28 and 29 give context that the Savior was speaking specifically about having 'the spirit of contention' and in reference to disputes of what is and is not part of his doctrine. Seems clear to me he's saying he's going to do away with any need for any of his followers to ever have to argue with each other about what does and does not constitute his doctrine. Which he immediately proceeds to do, in crystal clarity, by listing what his doctrine is, in no uncertain terms. He's saying 'there is no longer any need for contention over what is and is not part of the doctrine of Christ, because here it is, once and for all, in black and white simplicity'.

3 - Christ commanding us not to have the 'spirit of contention' is not the same thing as him saying: 'Never contend, under any circumstances. Just go along with whatever anyone says or does, no matter how evil.' I feel like this is kinda absurdly obvious, but I thought I would point it out. For example, Captain Moroni is not currently roasting in hell for daring to contend with Amalickiah imo.

No. I'm saying that Jesus made clear what He was talking about.

And whoso believeth in me, and is baptized, the same shall be saved; and they are they who shall inherit the kingdom of God.
34 And whoso believeth not in me, and is not baptized, shall be damned.
35 Verily, verily, I say unto you, that this is my doctrine

Doctrine just means teaching. Obviously, this was not the only thing he taught. He was saying that this was his doctrine to inherit the kingdom of God. There are more teachings, but this is the only teaching to enter the kingdom of God. But as Nephi teaches so well, all is not done when we have done those things.

You just quoted a verse where Jesus says his doctrine is exactly what we have been saying it is and which is part of the "don't add to or take away from this list". It didn't help your case in claiming that his doctrine includes tithing or the law of chastity or any other thing taught by you and the church.

I'm told that the church pays some people to spread and support their views and teachings and to promote their authority on forums like this to attempt to offset the mass exodus that is currently happening. Are you called by the church to participate on this forum or are you paid by the church or any entity under it?

Peace,
Amonhi

[Amonhi]

NO, he did not give us more doctrine and won't until he comes to us in the flesh. You call it a word game because you don't understand why the Father, the son and the Holy Ghost only recognize these four principles as doctrine. I do, and I agree with them that these need to be the only doctrines of Christ's gospel. But before talking about why, let's look at a little more of the "what".

Nephi had the Law of Moses which included all the commandments like keep the Sabbath day holy, thou shalt not kill, lie or steal, thou shalt have no other Gods before me, etc. and yet he still said that there was no other doctrine and would be no other doctrine until Christ will manifest himself in the flesh. This means that all the commandments and ordinances and information that he had and taught were not considered doctrine by Nephi.


Nephi summarized the first three points of Christ's doctrine by saying, "if ye will enter in by the way" which was a reference to what he just taught in the previous chapter where he used the exact same words and promised that the Holy Ghost would come to us if we entered in by faith, repentance and baptism. So, in a single sentence, he taught the entire doctrine of Christ, reiterating his detailed extensive teachings in the previous chapter, then he said that "this IS the doctrine of Christ". He didn't mention any of the commandments, tithing or endowments, etc. Just like Jesus, he said, "THIS is it." Then he said there would be no other doctrine given until Christ came in the flesh. He could have been talking about Christ coming in 3 Nephi 11 or he could have been talking about the Second Comforter experience given to those who have their calling and election made sure. When Christ came in the flesh to the Nephites in 3 Nephi 11, the very first thing he taught was his doctrine when he said nothing more or less than this is my doctrine. So, everything that Nephi taught and all the things taught between Nephi and Christ, there was no new doctrine given. And, when Jesus arrived, he not only said there was still nothing new, he said to add or take away from this doctrine comes of evil and opens the gates of hell. To say that he then added to his own doctrine is to say that he taught what comes of evil and opens the gates of hell to receive people.

Jesus's own statement that anything more or less than this comes of evil and opens the gates of hell to receive such means that even he could not add to his own doctrine without coming of evil and opening the gates of hell to receive such.

I didn't want to walk through 2 Nephi 31 because like 3 Nephi 11, its long. But for the sake of showing that Nephi was in complete 100% agreement with Jesus in saying that these four things are the only doctrines of Christ. I think that 2 Nephi 32:5-6 quoted above shows that already, but since Nephi was so clear about what was and what was not doctrine of Christ, (he was playing the same word game Jesus was), I will. Again, this is the "what", not the "why". The what is all about what is doctrine and what is not. The why is all about why is this the only doctrine of the Father, the son and the holy Ghost.

To make this easier on me, I'll not skip any verses, but I will break them up with comments... I'll quote them in order without skipping.

He had just said finished teaching a whole bunch of stuff, and then he said, "the things which I have written sufficeth me, save it be a few words which I must speak concerning the doctrine of Christ;" This is his transition from what he was saying to the doctrine of Christ. He knows that what he was teaching before not part of "the doctrine of Christ". So, he ended what he was saying before and now he is going to talk to us about "the doctrine of Christ". So, we are going to look and see if he starts talking about faith, repentance, baptism and the Holy Ghost.


Jesus gave us the example of living the doctrine of Christ and as a result, the Father gave him the Holy Ghost. He showed us how to live the doctrine of Christ by his example. This is the first time he teaches the doctrine of Christ since he stated he was going to teach it in the previous verse. He also defined this as the gate by which we enter.


This is the second time that the doctrine of Christ is taught by Nephi after he said he was going to start talking about the doctrine of Christ. Nephi says that these are the words of the Father and the Son.

As a side note, not really part of answering the question, "what is the doctrine of Christ?" ... The Son specifically said something RPM has pointed out a few times... "the Father will give the Holy Ghost, like unto Christ." How did Christ receive the Holy Ghost? It wasn't by the laying on of hands. I came upon him directly from God. This is and was a valid way to receive the Holy Ghost. But again, it's off topic, I just wanted to point out to RPM that his suspicions are correct and Nephi repeats this again in a few verses.


This is the third time Nephi taught the doctrine of Christ after saying he was going to talk about it.


This is the fourth time Nephi records the doctrine of Christ. But the Son tells us that if we start down this path and receive the doctrine of Christ, (faith in Christ, repentance, baptism by water and then receive the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost), and then after having been baptized with fire and the Holy Ghost we reject the doctrine of Christ by "denying him" (no longer having faith in Christ) or in other words nullifying the repentance and baptism, based on which we were given the Holy Ghost, then it would be better if we had never started down this path. For this reason, he tells us to "endure to the end" which means to not give up on the doctrine of Christ until the end when we reach eternal life at the end of the path. Another way of saying this is we just entered in at the gate and qualified for salvation by the doctrine of Christ. Don't exit the gate. Stay on this side of the gate or you cannot be saved.


The fifth time he teaches the doctrine of Christ.


Sixth time he teaches the doctrine of Christ, but adds some important insights.

• The last insight he gives us is that the Holy Ghost is promised to be given to everyone as soon as they enter in at the gate. If you haven't received the Holy Ghost, then you haven't entered in at the gate. Some people are baptized but don't really have faith in Christ. Maybe they have faith in their own works to save them, or they have faith in the baptism to save them, or faith in the church, etc. but they don't have faith in Christ. They aren't given the Holy Ghost because they didn't really enter in at the gate which requires faith in Christ. Some people get baptized and join the church but they aren't really repentant, so they don't get the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost. Whatever step they miss, if they don't get the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost, then they haven't entered in at the gate because the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost is promised to everyone who enters in at the gate correctly.
• First insight is that after we enter in at the gate, "ye in this strait and narrow path which leads to eternal life". We haven't gotten to eternal life yet, but we are on the path that leads to it. If we have not entered in at the gate, then we are not on the path that leads to eternal life. There is no hope of eternal life without entering in at the gate because there is no way to get on the path that leads to eternal life without entering in at the gate.
• The other insight we gather from his words here match up with what Jesus taught in John 10:1 where he said, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door (Gate) into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber." You CAN enter the church or "sheepfold" without going through the gate. People do it all the time. Let's say for example that you join the church but do not receive the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost which is promised to everyone who enters in at the gate. If you are a member of the Church but have not received the gift of the Holy Ghost, then you have entered in and not by the gate. This is what the Sacrament is administered for. It continually reminds us of the body and blood that was shed for us so we know where to look to receive the remission of our sins with the express purpose being, "that they may always have his spirit to be with them". In the Sacrament the gospel of Jesus Christ is preached every week to those who have already been baptized, but who do not "always have his spirit to be with them."

In these verses, Nephi is telling us to walk the path that leads to eternal life by "feasting on the words of Christ which only come by the Holy Ghost which we have now received since we entered in at the gate. We have entered in at the gate by the Gospel of Jesus Christ. but we must live by the Gospel which means feasting on the words of Christ which he said and says again in the next chapter is words spoken by the Holy Ghost. The only way to walk the path that leads to eternal life is to feast on the words of Christ which are spoken by the power of the Holy Ghost. That is the path. Follow the path and you'll reach eternal life. Leave the path and although you stayed behind the gate, you will not reach eternal life. Exit the gate by denying Christ and the covenants you made when you entered in at the gate and it will have been better for you to have not known him.

After teaching the gospel six times, he concludes by saying,

He started his remarks by telling us that he was ending his previous teachings and now going to speak to us about the doctrine of Christ. He taught the doctrine of Christ 6 times which doctrine matches up identically with what Jesus said in 3 Nephi 11. Then he concludes by saying THIS is the doctrine of Christ and the ONLY DOCTRINE of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. And then in the next chapter, he continues this thought process and reaffirming that this is the ONLY doctrine of Christ and that there will be no more doctrine given until Christ comes in the flesh by saying,



Nephi is in complete agreement with Jesus Christ in 3 Nephi 11 when he says that THIS is the Doctrine of Christ and the ONLY doctrine of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.

Now, you call it "word play" because you were ignorant to this message and thought that the doctrine of Christ was every truth and commandment given by the church. Jesus said that your definition, which you received by learning from the church teachings and doctrines, comes of evil and opens the gates of hell to receive people. According to Nephi and Jesus it is important to define the doctrine of Christ correctly and that doctrine makes up his gospel and his church teaches his gospel correctly neither adding to nor taking away from the doctrines given by Christ. The LDS church does not because they like you before this discussion don't know the doctrine of Christ nor his gospel and they like you teach FALSE doctrines and a false Gospel which comes of evil and opens the gates of hell to receive people.

And I am amazed by the fact that after seeing what is clearly written your first response is to say it is simple word play and unimportant rather than ask for yourself why the Lord and his prophet Nephi would teach this. You downplay the savior's words because... you never were taught them by the church. because the church doesn't teach his doctrine nor his gospel, but they do teach a distortion of his doctrine which Jesus said "comes of evil and opens the gates of hell".

YOU can't even accept what Jesus said is his doctrine and nothing more than his doctrine and nothing less than his doctrine. You have no clue as to how etremely important this point is and why it is so important, so you down play it. But Jesus said it was so important that if a church doesn't teach his doctrine correctly, then it isn't his church. That's how important it is.

This post is long enough, so I will explain why it is significantly important that we understand his doctrine and teach it correctly in my next post. If you can wait to make another post until you read what I am about to post about why it is essential to teach his doctrine correctly, you might prevent yourself from displaying your gross ignorance further.

Peace,
Amonhi

He didn't give more doctrine?
"this is not my doctrine, to stir up the hearts of men with anger, one against another; but this is my doctrine, that such things should be done away."

No, he was not giving more doctrine here. He was not saying, "my doctrine is that such things should be done away", though I can see why you would read it that way because the wording can have multiple meanings. But to read it that way would be inconsistent with ALL the other scriptures that talk about his doctrine and his gospel. And it would mean that his doctrine was faith, repentance, baptism, then cometh the gift of the Holy Ghost and that such things should be done away, and to add to or take away from this list cometh of evil and opens the gates of hell.

Jesus was very clear to say that ALL of his doctrine is included in 3 Nephi 11 and that adding to or taking away from the doctrine taught in that chapter by Jesus comes of evil and opens the gates of hell. Nephi also said that all of the doctrine of Christ was taught in 2 Nephi 31 and that the doctrines taught in 2 Nephi 31 were the only doctrines accepted by the Father, and the Son and the Holy Ghost. I can't find the "doctrine" saying that such things should be done away in 2 Nephi 31. Also, Nephi told us in 2 Nephi 32 that The doctrine of Christ was that we "enter in by the way, and receive the Holy Ghost, it will show unto you all things what ye should do", and that there would be no other doctrine given accept this until Christ came in the flesh. This is the same doctrine repeated several times in both 2 Nephi 31 and 3 Nephi 11 where we are told it is the only doctrine of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. In none of these other references does it say that Christ's doctrine includes "that these things should be done away". The other way to read that verse is with the comma between "doctrine" and "that" which means "I'm telling you my doctrine, so that the disputing about my doctrine will stop among you" or "this is my doctrine, that such things should be done away". Not "my doctrine is that such things should be done away." (no comma)

I'm amazed you guys consistently downplay the savior's own words. But when you have an ax to grind...

(Face Palm) Put the mirror down friend.

You guys have no idea how extremely important ALL of the saviors words are, and by cherry picking to only follow snippets when it agreed with you and gives you license to sin, you guys damn yourselves.

All of the Saviors words are important, but they are not all equally important. Some of the things he said are more important than other things he said. You are making ALL of the Savior's words equal with the specific words that are his doctrine. This is incorrect. And, as odd as it may sound to you, it is more important to speak positively about the Holy Ghost than it is to speak positively about Jesus Christ. And it is this principle which makes the Gospel or Doctrine of Christ more important than the other teachings of Christ because the doctrine of Christ is everything needed for a person to gain the Holy Ghost, and gaining the Holy Ghost is more important than following all the other teachings of Jesus which do not get a person the Holy Ghost. For example, Jesus said that to hate your neighbor in your heart is to commit murder in your heart. A person could find value in his teachings and apply that teaching and still not have the Holy Ghost or the Testimony of Christ gained through the Holy Ghost. If a person receives the teachings of Jesus but not a testimony of him or his gospel, they still only qualify for the Telestial Kingdom.

D&C 76
98 And the glory of the telestial is one, even as the glory of the stars is one; for as one star differs from another star in glory, even so differs one from another in glory in the telestial world;
99 For these are they who are of Paul, and of Apollos, and of Cephas.
100 These are they who say they are some of one and some of another—some of Christ and some of John, and some of Moses, and some of Elias, and some of Esaias, and some of Isaiah, and some of Enoch;
101 But received not the gospel, neither the testimony of Jesus, neither the prophets, neither the everlasting covenant.

The Telestial may have accepted some of the teachings of Christ, but they didn't receive the Gospel of Jesus Christ and so they remain Telestial. Yes, the doctrines of Christ and his gospel are more important than any of his other words. The reason again is because they are the steps a person needs to take to receive the Holy Ghost. How important is the Holy Ghost as compared to Jesus Christ?

Well, Jesus Christ is VERY important, but you can blaspheme him and speak evil about him and still be forgiven. You cannot blaspheme or speak evil of the Holy Ghost and be forgiven. Speaking against Jesus is pardonable, but speaking against the Holy Ghost is unpardonable. This is how Jesus said this.

Matthew 12:31–32
31 ¶ Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

The Gospel is all about receiving and following the Holy Ghost. Jesus, who is the Son of Man, said that if you speak evil against him it can be forgiven, but if you speak evil against the Holy Ghost it will not be forgiven you. This clearly places a higher priority on the importance of following the Holy Ghost. Just as the Holy Ghost has a special place in our lives, so too does the gospel and doctrine of Christ which is given for us to receive the Holy Ghost. It takes priority and precedence over all other principles, ordinances, teachings and commandments. It is the MOST important thing we can learn, understand and follow, more than all the other teachings of Christ. That's why it alone is the doctrine, and nothing else ranks equal with it in importance and priority.

But that is only the beginning...

Look at the promise given for following the doctrine and gospel of Christ as compared with the curse for not. This promise is repeated again and again the same way.

I'll mark the blessing for following the doctrine and gospel in green and the curse for not following in red so it is easier to see...

3 Nephi 11
39 Verily, verily, I say unto you, that this is my doctrine, and whoso buildeth upon this buildeth upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them.
40 And whoso shall declare more or less than this, and establish it for my doctrine, the same cometh of evil, and is not built upon my rock; but he buildeth upon a sandy foundation, and the gates of hell stand open to receive such when the floods come and the winds beat upon them.

D&C 10
67 Behold, this is my doctrine—whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church.
68 Whosoever declareth more or less than this, the same is not of me, but is against me; therefore he is not of my church.
69 And now, behold, whosoever is of my church, and endureth of my church to the end, him will I establish upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them.

Oliver Cowdery transcribed the Book of Mormon and the Lord said to him the following:

D&C 18
2 Behold, I have manifested unto you, by my Spirit in many instances, that the things which you have written, (the Book of Mormon) are true; wherefore you know that they are true.
3 And if you know that they are true, behold, I give unto you a commandment, that you rely upon the things which are written;
4 For in them are all things written concerning the foundation of my church, my gospel, and my rock.
5 Wherefore, if you shall build up my church, upon the foundation of my gospel and my rock, the gates of hell shall not prevail against you.

Matt. 16
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven, (by the spirit whaich is neither flesh nor blood).
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

D&C 33
11 Yea, repent and be baptized, every one of you, for a remission of your sins; yea, be baptized even by water, and then cometh the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost.
12 Behold, verily, verily, I say unto you, this is my gospel; and remember that they shall have faith in me or they can in nowise be saved;
13 And upon this rock I will build my church; yea, upon this rock ye are built, and if ye continue, the gates of hell shall not prevail against you.

Hel. 5
12 And now, my sons, remember, remember that it is upon the rock of our Redeemer, who is Christ, the Son of God, that ye must build your foundation; that when the devil shall send forth his mighty winds, yea, his shafts in the whirlwind, yea, when all his hail and his mighty storm shall beat upon you, it shall have no power over you to drag you down to the gulf of misery and endless wo, because of the rock upon which ye are built, which is a sure foundation, a foundation whereon if men build they cannot fall.

3 Nephi 18
11 And this (Administer the Sacrament as a continual reminder of Christ) shall ye always do to those who repent and are baptized in my name; and ye shall do it in remembrance of my blood, which I have shed for you, that ye may witness unto the Father that ye do always remember me. And if ye do always remember me ye shall have my Spirit to be with you.
12 And I give unto you a commandment that ye shall do these things. And if ye shall always do these things blessed are ye, for ye are built upon my rock.
13 But whoso among you shall do more or less than these are not built upon my rock, but are built upon a sandy foundation; and when the rain descends, and the floods come, and the winds blow, and beat upon them, they shall fall, and the gates of hell are ready open to receive them.

The gospel is the process by which we get the spirit or the Holy Ghost. Having and following the Holy Ghost is the Rock on which we must build. It tells us the words of Christ from the philosophies of men, so building on the spirit is building on Christ. We are told that this is the only rock or sure foundation on which if we build we cannot fall. It doesn't say we are likely not to fall, it says we CANNOT Fall. On the other hand, if we do not build on this one and only rock, from which we cannot fall, then we are building on what is described as a sandy foundation from which we we will fall. It doesn't tell us that we are likely to fall if we build on the sand, it says we are guaranteed to fall if we build on the sand. Since there is only one rock, all other foundations are sand. If you build on prophets and apostles or following your leaders, then you are building on sand. If you are building on your understanding of the scriptures, then you are building on sand. If you are building on the teachings of Jesus Christ, then you are building on sand. If you are building on the Church approved curriculum, then you are really building on a sandy foundation.

There is only one rock and it is the rock of personal revelation from God through the spirit. Even if you learn truth, if it is received in any other way than by the spirit in personal revelation, then it is still not of God, because it is received via a sandy foundation and you are not built on the rock.

D&C 50
19 And again, he that receiveth the word of truth, doth he receive it by the Spirit of truth or some other way?
20 If it be some other way it is not of God.

Why? Why can't we take away from the doctrine of Christ and it still be considered his doctrine? Why are the gates of hell open to receive those who take even one point away from his doctrine?

Because...

• without true faith, they cannot receive the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost.
• without true repentance, they cannot receive the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost.
• without baptism, the power of God is not manifest to the children of men in the flesh, (D&C 84:20), and so they cannot "witness before the church that they have truly repented of all their sins" (D&C 20:37)
• without the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost, nothing else they have done or will do can save them. They have not entered in at the gate and are not on the path that leads to eternal life.

Because they have not been saved, the gates of hell are open to received them.

Why can't we add to the doctrine of Christ and it still be considered his doctrine? Why are the gates of hell open to receive those who add even one point to his doctrine?

Because...

• If a person has the gift of the Holy Ghost, and
• if the Holy Ghost is supposed to teach them all things, and
• if the Holy Ghost is supposed to tell them all things that they should do, then
• giving even one more doctrine, no matter what it is, is doing the Holy Ghost's job of telling a person what to believe or what to do.

For example, if you tell someone to pay tithing and that paying tithing is a doctrine of Christ, then you are telling them what the Holy Ghost is supposed to tell them. What if they are not supposed to pay tithing? (Not everyone should.)

If for example you tell teach a person about the pre-existence and call that teaching "doctrine" then you are teaching the person what is not your right to teach them and you are denying the Holy Ghost from teaching them all things. What if you teach something false or incorrect, like the church does ALL THE TIME? If we make those things doctrine, then they must be accepted without question, even if they are wrong.

Adding doctrines to Christ's doctrine is encroaching on the role, mission and purpose of having the Holy Ghost which is to teach us all things and show us all things that we should do. Every doctrine added to the doctrine of Christ is speaking evil of the Holy Ghost and saying that it is not capable of teaching you all things. Anything teaching that you call doctrine is being given and received without the spirit, because doctrines are given to people who don't have the spirit to help them get the spirit. Once we have the spirit, we are not to receive anything in any other way than by the spirit. Receiving anything, even if it is true, without the spirit means that it is not of God. There is only one rock and it is the rock of personal revelation from God through the spirit. Even if what was learn is true, if it is received in any other way than by the spirit in personal revelation, then it is still not of God, because it is received via a sandy foundation and encourages us to build on sandy foundations and not to build on the rock or sure foundation.

D&C 50
19 And again, he that receiveth the word of truth, doth he receive it by the Spirit of truth or some other way?
20 If it be some other way it is not of God.

Calling anything a doctrine except the four points of doctrine accepted by the Father, and the Son and the Holy Ghost, is not of God because it is telling you to receive a word of truth by doctrine and not by the spirit.

Ultimately, if we didn't follow the Gospel of Jesus Christ because we accepted as truth that which was given by a prophet or Davidic Servant or some other true or false messenger and relied on a person or a position or a church teachings false doctrines, (any doctrine not given or accepted by Christ), then not only are we not following the gospel, but we are being blinded by the craftiness of men and will end up in the Telestial or Terrestrial and not the Celestial kingdom.

in D&C 76 we are told that the Telestial never accepted the Gospel nor the testimony of Christ, so they never entered in by the gate. We are also told that the Celestial are those who gained the testimony of Christ and walked the path that leads to eternal life and did everything required to reach the end of that path and were sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise to their eternal life. Anyone who did accept the Gospel and testimony of Christ is not Telestial because they didn't receive those things. And, Anyone who didn't reach the end of the path that leads to eternal life isn't Celestial, because the Celestial all reached the end of the path. Which means that if you started the path but never reached the end, then you by default will go to the Terrestrial where we are told that they had the testimony of Christ, but were not valiant in the testimony of Christ unto obtaining the crown, (Celestial Crown). The reason we are told that are not valiant in the testimony of Christ is because they were "blinded by the craftiness of men". This can only happen if they are accepting truth from some other way than by the spirit of truth. It means that they were not built on the rock and were not living the gospel of Jesus Christ.

D&C 76
75 These are they who are honorable men of the earth, who were blinded by the craftiness of men.
76 These are they who receive of his glory, but not of his fulness.
77 These are they who receive of the presence of the Son, but not of the fulness of the Father.
78 Wherefore, they are bodies terrestrial, and not bodies celestial, and differ in glory as the moon differs from the sun.
79 These are they who are not valiant in the testimony of Jesus; wherefore, they obtain not the crown over the kingdom of our God.
80 And now this is the end of the vision which we saw of the terrestrial, that the Lord commanded us to write while we were yet in the Spirit.

The ONLY way to walk the path that leads to eternal life is to receive and follow the spirit and let go of everything you have received accept by the spirit of truth. Question everything by hte spirit that you have learned from the church and from the prophets, and from Elliaison, and from me and your parents, and any other source than the Spirit of Truth. You cannot make it to the Celestial Kingdom by doing everything you are told by the church or by the Davidic Servant or by the prophet or by me. You must have your own revelation, be your own prophet and talk to God for yourself. In the temple endowment, when you are standing at the veil talking to the Lord through the veil, IT IS YOU that are talking to the Lord through the veil, not Peter, James and John. The person assisting you is playing the role of the Holy Ghost guiding you, telling you what to do, but you must do it. No one can speak to the Lord through the veil on your behalf or in proxy for you. If you do not learn to do it, then it will not happen. Only the spirit can properly guide you. Others can give you thoughts and advice and experience, but they can't do it for you.

If someone it telling you to "follow them" or "follow a prophet" and promising you that by doing so you will make it to the Celestial Kingdom, they are wrong and blinding you by the craftiness of men. They are telling you that some man can teach you all things and show you all things that you should do to qualify for the Celestial Kingdom. They are teaching you exactly contrary to the gospel of Jesus Christ and teaching you that which will ensure that you do not make it to the Celestial kingdom.

47 And EVERY ONE that hearkeneth to the voice of the Spirit cometh unto God, even the Father.

Adding to or taking away from the doctrine of Christ comes of evil and opens the gates of hell to receive people, (3 Nephi 11). As the Lord said to us in D&C 10,

D&C 10
62 Yea, and I will, (through the Book of Mormon), also bring to light my gospel which was ministered unto them, (the Nephites), and, behold, they shall not deny that which you have received, but they shall build it up, and shall bring to light the true points of my doctrine, yea, and the only doctrine which is in me.
63 And this I do that I may establish my gospel, that there may not be so much contention; yea, Satan doth stir up the hearts of the people to contention concerning the points of my doctrine; and in these things they do err, for they do wrest the scriptures and do not understand them.
...
67 Behold, this is my doctrine—whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church.
68 Whosoever declareth more or less than this, the same is not of me, but is against me; therefore he is not of my church.

Taking away or adding to Christ's doctrine either prevents people from getting the Holy Ghost or replaces the Holy Ghost in teaching and showing all things that you should do, which is not of God.

You guys really should read the scriptures before you all post again to prevent yourselves from displaying your gross ignorance. But, it's never stopped you guys before....

It's funny that you would say this since I am the one quoting scriptures, and you are the one giving your opinion rarely if at all backed by a scripture. You are the one teaching false doctrines and saying that you see no issue with doing so. You are the one who is saying that the Lord is playing word games even after I have consistently point out over 20 verses which are consistent in teaching that the the four points are the only doctrines and that the main purpose that the Book of Mormon was given was to end contention regarding Christ's doctrine and gospel and that to teach more or less than this and call it Christ's doctrine comes of evil and opens the gates of hell, and Whosoever declareth more or less than this, the same is not of me, but is against me; therefore he is not of my church..

You, Artaxerxes, are declaring more than this as Christ's doctrine. And so, you, Artaxerxes are not of Christ, but are against Christ, therefore you, Artaxerxes, are not of his church.

Also, the formalized, documented, published and preached, core, fundamental, basic doctrines and practices of a church teach for doctrines more than this and so it cannot possibly be his church. This is why the Lord condemned this church saying,

D&C 84
52 And whoso receiveth not my voice is not acquainted with my voice, and is not of me.
53 And by this you may know the righteous from the wicked, and that the whole world groaneth under sin and darkness even now.
54 And your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—
55 Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation.
56 And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all.
57 And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written

The Lord commanded us to have faith in him, repent, and be baptized and promised that if we did we would receive the Holy Ghost which would tell us and show us all things that we should do. This is his gospel and his doctrine. And anyone who teaches more or less than this and declares it his gospel or his doctrine is not of God but fights against God and opens the gates of hell to receive those who believe the false doctrine and false gospel they preach.

In the name of Jesus Christ, Amen

No, it would simply mean you guys are misreading it. Jesus is perfectly clear. This is his doctrine (teaching) for admission to the kingdom of god. He has other doctrine. Lots of it.

2 Nephi 31 says the same thing. "there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end."

Nephi says that's not all (in other words, teaches another doctrine). "I would ask if all is done? Behold, I say unto you, Nay."

Jesus told us to follow the prophet. "and the day cometh that they who will not hear the voice of the Lord, neither the voice of his servants, neither give heed to the words of the prophets and apostles, shall be cut off from among the people;"

Again, you guys cherry pick which of Jesus's words you obey and which you don't. Be sure your entire goal is to justify your own sins, rather than keep the commandments.

You didn't read the post did you.

Peace,
Amonhi

[Artaxerxes]

You guys need to take it up with the Savior and tell Him why He was wrong to say that things like doing away with anger were part of His doctrine. Or you guys can stop cherry picking verses that support your desire to advocate sin. One of the two, I guess.

You've chosen an interesting line of attack. Let me see if I understand your argument... Even though the Savior himself strictly instructed to add nothing to nor take nothing away from his doctrine, it's still somehow ok for ldscorp to add in whatever they want because of what Christ says in verse 30 before listing the attributes of his doctrine:

"Behold, this is not my doctrine, to stir up the hearts of men with anger, one against another; but this is my doctrine, that such things should be done away."

Therefore since Christ himself adds in another element before even listing the attributes of his doctrine, which you have described as 'doing away with anger', then somehow it's ok for ldscorp to monkey around and add in any other element that 'sorta feels' like it ought to be lumped in.

Did I get your line of reasoning correct? If so, I think there's some flaws in your logic.

1 - Even if we grant the premise that there's a 'don't be angry' element to the doctrine, that does NOT provide for adding on any other piece to Christ's doctrine. Your own argument for other things being considered part of Christ's doctrine falls apart here, and you're only logically able to argue for 'don't be angry' being included.

2 - 'Don't be angry' is a gross oversimplification anyway. The actual wording is "this is my doctrine, that such things should be done away." So we have to go define what 'such things' would be. It's not as simple as 'anger'. The prior verses 28 and 29 give context that the Savior was speaking specifically about having 'the spirit of contention' and in reference to disputes of what is and is not part of his doctrine. Seems clear to me he's saying he's going to do away with any need for any of his followers to ever have to argue with each other about what does and does not constitute his doctrine. Which he immediately proceeds to do, in crystal clarity, by listing what his doctrine is, in no uncertain terms. He's saying 'there is no longer any need for contention over what is and is not part of the doctrine of Christ, because here it is, once and for all, in black and white simplicity'.

3 - Christ commanding us not to have the 'spirit of contention' is not the same thing as him saying: 'Never contend, under any circumstances. Just go along with whatever anyone says or does, no matter how evil.' I feel like this is kinda absurdly obvious, but I thought I would point it out. For example, Captain Moroni is not currently roasting in hell for daring to contend with Amalickiah imo.

No. I'm saying that Jesus made clear what He was talking about.

And whoso believeth in me, and is baptized, the same shall be saved; and they are they who shall inherit the kingdom of God.
34 And whoso believeth not in me, and is not baptized, shall be damned.
35 Verily, verily, I say unto you, that this is my doctrine

Doctrine just means teaching. Obviously, this was not the only thing he taught. He was saying that this was his doctrine to inherit the kingdom of God. There are more teachings, but this is the only teaching to enter the kingdom of God. But as Nephi teaches so well, all is not done when we have done those things.

You just quoted a verse where Jesus says his doctrine is exactly what we have been saying it is and which is part of the "don't add to or take away from this list". It didn't help your case in claiming that his doctrine includes tithing or the law of chastity or any other thing taught by you and the church.

I'm told that the church pays some people to spread and support their views and teachings and to promote their authority on forums like this to attempt to offset the mass exodus that is currently happening. Are you called by the church to participate on this forum or are you paid by the church or any entity under it?

Peace,
Amonhi

Yeah, the church teaches what Jesus taught. Jesus commanded tithing. We teach what Jesus taught. I understand you guys don't like that, but that is what Jesus taught.

I'm not called or paid in any way to comment on anything.

[Redpilled Mormon]

^^ You guys need to realise that there’s no point whatsoever in having these conversations with trolls like Artaxerxes. Totally pointless. He is here to engage in polemics and apologetics. He has no desire to change his mind on anything, because his chosen middlemen have spoken.

I'll voice a slight disagreement here, because I don't think we should stand by and let false doctrine go unchallenged. I'm not claiming to be an expert, and I'm certain I get many things wrong, but if someone is preaching something obviously false, I think it's good to speak up in opposition. Sadly I don't have as much free time to post as I would like though.

Anyway, even if he were a paid ldscorp troll and not posting in good faith, it doesn't matter much to me what the motives might be. Chalk it up to be my twisted sense of humor, but I find trolls entertaining, and nothing is more hilarious to me than seeing someone spouting illogical arguments because of cognitive dissonance. So I'll never take the 'don't feed the trolls' approach, nor will I ever hit the 'ignore' button; to me that stuff is just free entertainment.

[Thinker]

“We are all ignorant - just on different topics.” Yet, I admit to noting less credibility when people speak of things like lgbtqBS, QAnon & the mysterious Davidic Servant - aka DS & the 144k. Likewise, when people question these, respect increases.

The insanity of literal interpretation, if you bother to just look up the scripture about the 144K - you see it involves ONLY virgin men.

[gruden2.0]

LOL, in 2 years this thread has become such a cluster. Are we still talking about the Davidic Servant or something else? I have some trepidation on stepping in this one, but maybe a few things can be clarified (maybe...).

Behold, I say unto you, the redemption of Zion must needs come by power; Therefore, I will raise up unto my people a man, who shall lead them like as Moses led the children of Israel. For ye are the children of Israel, and of the seed of Abraham, and ye must needs be led out of bondage by power, and with a stretched-out arm. And as your fathers were led at the first, even so shall the redemption of Zion be.

So we know God will call a powerful prophet to reclaim Zion, hopefully we can all agree on that?

Here's the crux of where the disagreement enters (I think):

For to us a child is born, a son appointed, who will shoulder the burden of government. He will be called Wonderful Counsellor, one Mighty in Valor, a Father for Ever, a Prince of Peace - that sovereignty may be extended and peace have no end; that, on the throne of David and over his kingdom, his rule may be established and upheld by justice and righteousness from this time forth and forever. The zeal of the Lord of Hosts will accomplish it.

Everyone is familiar with verse 6, quoted in Haendel's Messiah so we're accustomed to thinking this is a prophecy about Jesus. With Gileadi coming in and saying this is actually a prophecy about the Davidic Servant, some say the scriptures have been wrested and people are idolizing this figure over Jesus. Have I got that right?

So which is it? Well, Mormons have a secret advantage, which is the Book of Mormon. Nephi was privileged to have been granted a complete panoramic vision of the events on earth from beginning to end, but he was not allowed to write it all, only a small part. Being as well-versed in the scriptures as he was, he was aware of one person who was allowed to write about those events, and inserted those writings en masse in the middle of his own record. Therefore, it would seem reasonable that we can look at the lead-up to the Isaiah chapters to see what the launch point was and get some much-needed context.

This launch point is 2 Nephi 6. This is the beginning of Jacob's record, and here prophecies of the dispersing of the Jews, which occurred shortly after their departure. He says they will return, and to those people Jesus will be born, and will be crucified. Because of what the Jews did, they will be afflicted and scattered again. And then he says after some time, the Lord will again start the process of gathering Israel together one last time.

And then he quotes 2 chapters of Isaiah, which discuss how the Lord has not abandoned his people and an invitation to the remnant to rise up and return and help restore Zion.

We then go to a sermon delivered by Jacob. Chapter 9 is basically Jacob's testimony of Jesus and His power to save. Jacob returns to the concept of Israel being dispersed and the work of gathering them together one final time. He specifically talks about the Gentiles' role in this gathering, and the Americas are the place where this will all come together.

In chapter 11 Nephi steps up to the helm again, briefly reiterates his own testimony of Jesus, and restarts Isaiah without interruption for 14 chapters. These 14 chapters create an interesting storyline about the events of the latter days, both the horrific suffering and ultimate triumph of Zion. This fits in perfectly with both Nephi's and Jacob's discussions leading up to this point.

Therefore, while it is commonly held that those verses in Isaiah 6 are talking about Jesus, this does not fit the timeline offered by Nephi, If we bother too look at the entire context where this fits in the Book of Mormon, and the narrative these 14 chapters provide, it is a panorama of events and circumstances present in the latter days and the return of Zion.

Now, there may be some skeptical of this position, who prefer to cling to their long-held cherished belief that Haendel was right about that Isaiah verse because that choral was just so nice. Let's go to 3 Nephi 20 to consider what Jesus himself had to say.

Ye remember that I spake unto you, and said that when the words of Isaiah should be fulfilled - behold they are written, ye have them before you therefore search them - And verily, verily, I say unto you, that when they shall be fulfilled then is the fulfilling of the covenant which the Father hath made unto his people, O house of Israel.

Firstly, Jesus is speaking of Isaiah as something that will see its fulfillment in the future - he doesn't say it has been fulfilled in Him yet. Jesus then, for much of the remainder of the chapter, goes on to describe essentially the same thing discussed in those 14 Isaiah chapters (and others as well) in a brief summary. So He commands us - speaking us in our time - to read Isaiah because they literally describe what we can expect to see and experience in this day. He directly says this, and even helps us out by giving a brief summary of what Isaiah is telling us. Then He says something else very interesting:

For ye shall not go out with haste nor go by flight; for the Lord will go before you, and the God of Israel shall be your rearward. Behold, my servant shall deal prudently; he shall be exalted and extolled and be very high. As many were astonished at thee his visage was so marred, more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men- So shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him, for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider.

See what Jesus did there? In the midst of His recap of Isaiah, He starts talking about and describing this servant. So there IS another guy, operating on a very high level, separate from Jesus. So if we're willing to entertain the idea that Isaiah 9:6 is talking about the same servant of which Jesus speaks, because Isaiah is actually talking about latter-day events not earlier, then he is also an heir to the throne of David. According to Jesus this servant will be worldwide, having direct discussions with the rulers of the world in this time, therefore having political power as well. It all fits together nicely.

You can argue further if you wish, but it's there to be seen. There is a servant coming, and he will be both political and spiritual. He will be the main figure organizing the gathering of Israel, and be conducting affairs politically.

[hedgehog]

Just finished a book with some interesting ideas about Joseph Smith's bloodlines. At the end of it, he brings up that though we all expect to see Joseph Smith at Adam-ondi-Ahaman, there is a case to be made, that Joseph will return to us beforehand to lead the church and lost tribes through the wilderness and onto Missouri. The case for Joseph as the end times mighty and strong one, was new to me but has left me thinking.

[darknesstolight]

LOL, in 2 years this thread has become such a cluster. Are we still talking about the Davidic Servant or something else? I have some trepidation on stepping in this one, but maybe a few things can be clarified (maybe...).

Behold, I say unto you, the redemption of Zion must needs come by power; Therefore, I will raise up unto my people a man, who shall lead them like as Moses led the children of Israel. For ye are the children of Israel, and of the seed of Abraham, and ye must needs be led out of bondage by power, and with a stretched-out arm. And as your fathers were led at the first, even so shall the redemption of Zion be.

So we know God will call a powerful prophet to reclaim Zion, hopefully we can all agree on that?

Here's the crux of where the disagreement enters (I think):

For to us a child is born, a son appointed, who will shoulder the burden of government. He will be called Wonderful Counsellor, one Mighty in Valor, a Father for Ever, a Prince of Peace - that sovereignty may be extended and peace have no end; that, on the throne of David and over his kingdom, his rule may be established and upheld by justice and righteousness from this time forth and forever. The zeal of the Lord of Hosts will accomplish it.

Everyone is familiar with verse 6, quoted in Haendel's Messiah so we're accustomed to thinking this is a prophecy about Jesus. With Gileadi coming in and saying this is actually a prophecy about the Davidic Servant, some say the scriptures have been wrested and people are idolizing this figure over Jesus. Have I got that right?

So which is it? Well, Mormons have a secret advantage, which is the Book of Mormon. Nephi was privileged to have been granted a complete panoramic vision of the events on earth from beginning to end, but he was not allowed to write it all, only a small part. Being as well-versed in the scriptures as he was, he was aware of one person who was allowed to write about those events, and inserted those writings en masse in the middle of his own record. Therefore, it would seem reasonable that we can look at the lead-up to the Isaiah chapters to see what the launch point was and get some much-needed context.

This launch point is 2 Nephi 6. This is the beginning of Jacob's record, and here prophecies of the dispersing of the Jews, which occurred shortly after their departure. He says they will return, and to those people Jesus will be born, and will be crucified. Because of what the Jews did, they will be afflicted and scattered again. And then he says after some time, the Lord will again start the process of gathering Israel together one last time.

And then he quotes 2 chapters of Isaiah, which discuss how the Lord has not abandoned his people and an invitation to the remnant to rise up and return and help restore Zion.

We then go to a sermon delivered by Jacob. Chapter 9 is basically Jacob's testimony of Jesus and His power to save. Jacob returns to the concept of Israel being dispersed and the work of gathering them together one final time. He specifically talks about the Gentiles' role in this gathering, and the Americas are the place where this will all come together.

In chapter 11 Nephi steps up to the helm again, briefly reiterates his own testimony of Jesus, and restarts Isaiah without interruption for 14 chapters. These 14 chapters create an interesting storyline about the events of the latter days, both the horrific suffering and ultimate triumph of Zion. This fits in perfectly with both Nephi's and Jacob's discussions leading up to this point.

Therefore, while it is commonly held that those verses in Isaiah 6 are talking about Jesus, this does not fit the timeline offered by Nephi, If we bother too look at the entire context where this fits in the Book of Mormon, and the narrative these 14 chapters provide, it is a panorama of events and circumstances present in the latter days and the return of Zion.

Now, there may be some skeptical of this position, who prefer to cling to their long-held cherished belief that Haendel was right about that Isaiah verse because that choral was just so nice. Let's go to 3 Nephi 20 to consider what Jesus himself had to say.

Ye remember that I spake unto you, and said that when the words of Isaiah should be fulfilled - behold they are written, ye have them before you therefore search them - And verily, verily, I say unto you, that when they shall be fulfilled then is the fulfilling of the covenant which the Father hath made unto his people, O house of Israel.

Firstly, Jesus is speaking of Isaiah as something that will see its fulfillment in the future - he doesn't say it has been fulfilled in Him yet. Jesus then, for much of the remainder of the chapter, goes on to describe essentially the same thing discussed in those 14 Isaiah chapters (and others as well) in a brief summary. So He commands us - speaking us in our time - to read Isaiah because they literally describe what we can expect to see and experience in this day. He directly says this, and even helps us out by giving a brief summary of what Isaiah is telling us. Then He says something else very interesting:

For ye shall not go out with haste nor go by flight; for the Lord will go before you, and the God of Israel shall be your rearward. Behold, my servant shall deal prudently; he shall be exalted and extolled and be very high. As many were astonished at thee his visage was so marred, more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men- So shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him, for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider.

See what Jesus did there? In the midst of His recap of Isaiah, He starts talking about and describing this servant. So there IS another guy, operating on a very high level, separate from Jesus. So if we're willing to entertain the idea that Isaiah 9:6 is talking about the same servant of which Jesus speaks, because Isaiah is actually talking about latter-day events not earlier, then he is also an heir to the throne of David. According to Jesus this servant will be worldwide, having direct discussions with the rulers of the world in this time, therefore having political power as well. It all fits together nicely.

You can argue further if you wish, but it's there to be seen. There is a servant coming, and he will be both political and spiritual. He will be the main figure organizing the gathering of Israel, and be conducting affairs politically.

And the assumption here is that Jesus all of a sudden starts talking about a single mortal servant.

How about if we liken the scriptures to ourselves?

...

[Being There]

NO, he did not give us more doctrine and won't until he comes to us in the flesh. You call it a word game because you don't understand why the Father, the son and the Holy Ghost only recognize these four principles as doctrine. I do, and I agree with them that these need to be the only doctrines of Christ's gospel. But before talking about why, let's look at a little more of the "what".

Nephi had the Law of Moses which included all the commandments like keep the Sabbath day holy, thou shalt not kill, lie or steal, thou shalt have no other Gods before me, etc. and yet he still said that there was no other doctrine and would be no other doctrine until Christ will manifest himself in the flesh. This means that all the commandments and ordinances and information that he had and taught were not considered doctrine by Nephi.


Nephi summarized the first three points of Christ's doctrine by saying, "if ye will enter in by the way" which was a reference to what he just taught in the previous chapter where he used the exact same words and promised that the Holy Ghost would come to us if we entered in by faith, repentance and baptism. So, in a single sentence, he taught the entire doctrine of Christ, reiterating his detailed extensive teachings in the previous chapter, then he said that "this IS the doctrine of Christ". He didn't mention any of the commandments, tithing or endowments, etc. Just like Jesus, he said, "THIS is it." Then he said there would be no other doctrine given until Christ came in the flesh. He could have been talking about Christ coming in 3 Nephi 11 or he could have been talking about the Second Comforter experience given to those who have their calling and election made sure. When Christ came in the flesh to the Nephites in 3 Nephi 11, the very first thing he taught was his doctrine when he said nothing more or less than this is my doctrine. So, everything that Nephi taught and all the things taught between Nephi and Christ, there was no new doctrine given. And, when Jesus arrived, he not only said there was still nothing new, he said to add or take away from this doctrine comes of evil and opens the gates of hell. To say that he then added to his own doctrine is to say that he taught what comes of evil and opens the gates of hell to receive people.

Jesus's own statement that anything more or less than this comes of evil and opens the gates of hell to receive such means that even he could not add to his own doctrine without coming of evil and opening the gates of hell to receive such.

I didn't want to walk through 2 Nephi 31 because like 3 Nephi 11, its long. But for the sake of showing that Nephi was in complete 100% agreement with Jesus in saying that these four things are the only doctrines of Christ. I think that 2 Nephi 32:5-6 quoted above shows that already, but since Nephi was so clear about what was and what was not doctrine of Christ, (he was playing the same word game Jesus was), I will. Again, this is the "what", not the "why". The what is all about what is doctrine and what is not. The why is all about why is this the only doctrine of the Father, the son and the holy Ghost.

To make this easier on me, I'll not skip any verses, but I will break them up with comments... I'll quote them in order without skipping.

He had just said finished teaching a whole bunch of stuff, and then he said, "the things which I have written sufficeth me, save it be a few words which I must speak concerning the doctrine of Christ;" This is his transition from what he was saying to the doctrine of Christ. He knows that what he was teaching before not part of "the doctrine of Christ". So, he ended what he was saying before and now he is going to talk to us about "the doctrine of Christ". So, we are going to look and see if he starts talking about faith, repentance, baptism and the Holy Ghost.


Jesus gave us the example of living the doctrine of Christ and as a result, the Father gave him the Holy Ghost. He showed us how to live the doctrine of Christ by his example. This is the first time he teaches the doctrine of Christ since he stated he was going to teach it in the previous verse. He also defined this as the gate by which we enter.


This is the second time that the doctrine of Christ is taught by Nephi after he said he was going to start talking about the doctrine of Christ. Nephi says that these are the words of the Father and the Son.

As a side note, not really part of answering the question, "what is the doctrine of Christ?" ... The Son specifically said something RPM has pointed out a few times... "the Father will give the Holy Ghost, like unto Christ." How did Christ receive the Holy Ghost? It wasn't by the laying on of hands. I came upon him directly from God. This is and was a valid way to receive the Holy Ghost. But again, it's off topic, I just wanted to point out to RPM that his suspicions are correct and Nephi repeats this again in a few verses.


This is the third time Nephi taught the doctrine of Christ after saying he was going to talk about it.


This is the fourth time Nephi records the doctrine of Christ. But the Son tells us that if we start down this path and receive the doctrine of Christ, (faith in Christ, repentance, baptism by water and then receive the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost), and then after having been baptized with fire and the Holy Ghost we reject the doctrine of Christ by "denying him" (no longer having faith in Christ) or in other words nullifying the repentance and baptism, based on which we were given the Holy Ghost, then it would be better if we had never started down this path. For this reason, he tells us to "endure to the end" which means to not give up on the doctrine of Christ until the end when we reach eternal life at the end of the path. Another way of saying this is we just entered in at the gate and qualified for salvation by the doctrine of Christ. Don't exit the gate. Stay on this side of the gate or you cannot be saved.


The fifth time he teaches the doctrine of Christ.


Sixth time he teaches the doctrine of Christ, but adds some important insights.

• The last insight he gives us is that the Holy Ghost is promised to be given to everyone as soon as they enter in at the gate. If you haven't received the Holy Ghost, then you haven't entered in at the gate. Some people are baptized but don't really have faith in Christ. Maybe they have faith in their own works to save them, or they have faith in the baptism to save them, or faith in the church, etc. but they don't have faith in Christ. They aren't given the Holy Ghost because they didn't really enter in at the gate which requires faith in Christ. Some people get baptized and join the church but they aren't really repentant, so they don't get the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost. Whatever step they miss, if they don't get the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost, then they haven't entered in at the gate because the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost is promised to everyone who enters in at the gate correctly.
• First insight is that after we enter in at the gate, "ye in this strait and narrow path which leads to eternal life". We haven't gotten to eternal life yet, but we are on the path that leads to it. If we have not entered in at the gate, then we are not on the path that leads to eternal life. There is no hope of eternal life without entering in at the gate because there is no way to get on the path that leads to eternal life without entering in at the gate.
• The other insight we gather from his words here match up with what Jesus taught in John 10:1 where he said, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door (Gate) into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber." You CAN enter the church or "sheepfold" without going through the gate. People do it all the time. Let's say for example that you join the church but do not receive the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost which is promised to everyone who enters in at the gate. If you are a member of the Church but have not received the gift of the Holy Ghost, then you have entered in and not by the gate. This is what the Sacrament is administered for. It continually reminds us of the body and blood that was shed for us so we know where to look to receive the remission of our sins with the express purpose being, "that they may always have his spirit to be with them". In the Sacrament the gospel of Jesus Christ is preached every week to those who have already been baptized, but who do not "always have his spirit to be with them."

In these verses, Nephi is telling us to walk the path that leads to eternal life by "feasting on the words of Christ which only come by the Holy Ghost which we have now received since we entered in at the gate. We have entered in at the gate by the Gospel of Jesus Christ. but we must live by the Gospel which means feasting on the words of Christ which he said and says again in the next chapter is words spoken by the Holy Ghost. The only way to walk the path that leads to eternal life is to feast on the words of Christ which are spoken by the power of the Holy Ghost. That is the path. Follow the path and you'll reach eternal life. Leave the path and although you stayed behind the gate, you will not reach eternal life. Exit the gate by denying Christ and the covenants you made when you entered in at the gate and it will have been better for you to have not known him.

After teaching the gospel six times, he concludes by saying,

He started his remarks by telling us that he was ending his previous teachings and now going to speak to us about the doctrine of Christ. He taught the doctrine of Christ 6 times which doctrine matches up identically with what Jesus said in 3 Nephi 11. Then he concludes by saying THIS is the doctrine of Christ and the ONLY DOCTRINE of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. And then in the next chapter, he continues this thought process and reaffirming that this is the ONLY doctrine of Christ and that there will be no more doctrine given until Christ comes in the flesh by saying,



Nephi is in complete agreement with Jesus Christ in 3 Nephi 11 when he says that THIS is the Doctrine of Christ and the ONLY doctrine of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.

Now, you call it "word play" because you were ignorant to this message and thought that the doctrine of Christ was every truth and commandment given by the church. Jesus said that your definition, which you received by learning from the church teachings and doctrines, comes of evil and opens the gates of hell to receive people. According to Nephi and Jesus it is important to define the doctrine of Christ correctly and that doctrine makes up his gospel and his church teaches his gospel correctly neither adding to nor taking away from the doctrines given by Christ. The LDS church does not because they like you before this discussion don't know the doctrine of Christ nor his gospel and they like you teach FALSE doctrines and a false Gospel which comes of evil and opens the gates of hell to receive people.

And I am amazed by the fact that after seeing what is clearly written your first response is to say it is simple word play and unimportant rather than ask for yourself why the Lord and his prophet Nephi would teach this. You downplay the savior's words because... you never were taught them by the church. because the church doesn't teach his doctrine nor his gospel, but they do teach a distortion of his doctrine which Jesus said "comes of evil and opens the gates of hell".

YOU can't even accept what Jesus said is his doctrine and nothing more than his doctrine and nothing less than his doctrine. You have no clue as to how etremely important this point is and why it is so important, so you down play it. But Jesus said it was so important that if a church doesn't teach his doctrine correctly, then it isn't his church. That's how important it is.

This post is long enough, so I will explain why it is significantly important that we understand his doctrine and teach it correctly in my next post. If you can wait to make another post until you read what I am about to post about why it is essential to teach his doctrine correctly, you might prevent yourself from displaying your gross ignorance further.

Peace,
Amonhi

He didn't give more doctrine?
"this is not my doctrine, to stir up the hearts of men with anger, one against another; but this is my doctrine, that such things should be done away."

No, he was not giving more doctrine here. He was not saying, "my doctrine is that such things should be done away", though I can see why you would read it that way because the wording can have multiple meanings. But to read it that way would be inconsistent with ALL the other scriptures that talk about his doctrine and his gospel. And it would mean that his doctrine was faith, repentance, baptism, then cometh the gift of the Holy Ghost and that such things should be done away, and to add to or take away from this list cometh of evil and opens the gates of hell.

Jesus was very clear to say that ALL of his doctrine is included in 3 Nephi 11 and that adding to or taking away from the doctrine taught in that chapter by Jesus comes of evil and opens the gates of hell. Nephi also said that all of the doctrine of Christ was taught in 2 Nephi 31 and that the doctrines taught in 2 Nephi 31 were the only doctrines accepted by the Father, and the Son and the Holy Ghost. I can't find the "doctrine" saying that such things should be done away in 2 Nephi 31. Also, Nephi told us in 2 Nephi 32 that The doctrine of Christ was that we "enter in by the way, and receive the Holy Ghost, it will show unto you all things what ye should do", and that there would be no other doctrine given accept this until Christ came in the flesh. This is the same doctrine repeated several times in both 2 Nephi 31 and 3 Nephi 11 where we are told it is the only doctrine of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. In none of these other references does it say that Christ's doctrine includes "that these things should be done away". The other way to read that verse is with the comma between "doctrine" and "that" which means "I'm telling you my doctrine, so that the disputing about my doctrine will stop among you" or "this is my doctrine, that such things should be done away". Not "my doctrine is that such things should be done away." (no comma)

I'm amazed you guys consistently downplay the savior's own words. But when you have an ax to grind...

(Face Palm) Put the mirror down friend.

You guys have no idea how extremely important ALL of the saviors words are, and by cherry picking to only follow snippets when it agreed with you and gives you license to sin, you guys damn yourselves.

All of the Saviors words are important, but they are not all equally important. Some of the things he said are more important than other things he said. You are making ALL of the Savior's words equal with the specific words that are his doctrine. This is incorrect. And, as odd as it may sound to you, it is more important to speak positively about the Holy Ghost than it is to speak positively about Jesus Christ. And it is this principle which makes the Gospel or Doctrine of Christ more important than the other teachings of Christ because the doctrine of Christ is everything needed for a person to gain the Holy Ghost, and gaining the Holy Ghost is more important than following all the other teachings of Jesus which do not get a person the Holy Ghost. For example, Jesus said that to hate your neighbor in your heart is to commit murder in your heart. A person could find value in his teachings and apply that teaching and still not have the Holy Ghost or the Testimony of Christ gained through the Holy Ghost. If a person receives the teachings of Jesus but not a testimony of him or his gospel, they still only qualify for the Telestial Kingdom.

D&C 76
98 And the glory of the telestial is one, even as the glory of the stars is one; for as one star differs from another star in glory, even so differs one from another in glory in the telestial world;
99 For these are they who are of Paul, and of Apollos, and of Cephas.
100 These are they who say they are some of one and some of another—some of Christ and some of John, and some of Moses, and some of Elias, and some of Esaias, and some of Isaiah, and some of Enoch;
101 But received not the gospel, neither the testimony of Jesus, neither the prophets, neither the everlasting covenant.

The Telestial may have accepted some of the teachings of Christ, but they didn't receive the Gospel of Jesus Christ and so they remain Telestial. Yes, the doctrines of Christ and his gospel are more important than any of his other words. The reason again is because they are the steps a person needs to take to receive the Holy Ghost. How important is the Holy Ghost as compared to Jesus Christ?

Well, Jesus Christ is VERY important, but you can blaspheme him and speak evil about him and still be forgiven. You cannot blaspheme or speak evil of the Holy Ghost and be forgiven. Speaking against Jesus is pardonable, but speaking against the Holy Ghost is unpardonable. This is how Jesus said this.

Matthew 12:31–32
31 ¶ Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

The Gospel is all about receiving and following the Holy Ghost. Jesus, who is the Son of Man, said that if you speak evil against him it can be forgiven, but if you speak evil against the Holy Ghost it will not be forgiven you. This clearly places a higher priority on the importance of following the Holy Ghost. Just as the Holy Ghost has a special place in our lives, so too does the gospel and doctrine of Christ which is given for us to receive the Holy Ghost. It takes priority and precedence over all other principles, ordinances, teachings and commandments. It is the MOST important thing we can learn, understand and follow, more than all the other teachings of Christ. That's why it alone is the doctrine, and nothing else ranks equal with it in importance and priority.

But that is only the beginning...

Look at the promise given for following the doctrine and gospel of Christ as compared with the curse for not. This promise is repeated again and again the same way.

I'll mark the blessing for following the doctrine and gospel in green and the curse for not following in red so it is easier to see...

3 Nephi 11
39 Verily, verily, I say unto you, that this is my doctrine, and whoso buildeth upon this buildeth upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them.
40 And whoso shall declare more or less than this, and establish it for my doctrine, the same cometh of evil, and is not built upon my rock; but he buildeth upon a sandy foundation, and the gates of hell stand open to receive such when the floods come and the winds beat upon them.

D&C 10
67 Behold, this is my doctrine—whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church.
68 Whosoever declareth more or less than this, the same is not of me, but is against me; therefore he is not of my church.
69 And now, behold, whosoever is of my church, and endureth of my church to the end, him will I establish upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them.

Oliver Cowdery transcribed the Book of Mormon and the Lord said to him the following:

D&C 18
2 Behold, I have manifested unto you, by my Spirit in many instances, that the things which you have written, (the Book of Mormon) are true; wherefore you know that they are true.
3 And if you know that they are true, behold, I give unto you a commandment, that you rely upon the things which are written;
4 For in them are all things written concerning the foundation of my church, my gospel, and my rock.
5 Wherefore, if you shall build up my church, upon the foundation of my gospel and my rock, the gates of hell shall not prevail against you.

Matt. 16
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven, (by the spirit whaich is neither flesh nor blood).
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

D&C 33
11 Yea, repent and be baptized, every one of you, for a remission of your sins; yea, be baptized even by water, and then cometh the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost.
12 Behold, verily, verily, I say unto you, this is my gospel; and remember that they shall have faith in me or they can in nowise be saved;
13 And upon this rock I will build my church; yea, upon this rock ye are built, and if ye continue, the gates of hell shall not prevail against you.

Hel. 5
12 And now, my sons, remember, remember that it is upon the rock of our Redeemer, who is Christ, the Son of God, that ye must build your foundation; that when the devil shall send forth his mighty winds, yea, his shafts in the whirlwind, yea, when all his hail and his mighty storm shall beat upon you, it shall have no power over you to drag you down to the gulf of misery and endless wo, because of the rock upon which ye are built, which is a sure foundation, a foundation whereon if men build they cannot fall.

3 Nephi 18
11 And this (Administer the Sacrament as a continual reminder of Christ) shall ye always do to those who repent and are baptized in my name; and ye shall do it in remembrance of my blood, which I have shed for you, that ye may witness unto the Father that ye do always remember me. And if ye do always remember me ye shall have my Spirit to be with you.
12 And I give unto you a commandment that ye shall do these things. And if ye shall always do these things blessed are ye, for ye are built upon my rock.
13 But whoso among you shall do more or less than these are not built upon my rock, but are built upon a sandy foundation; and when the rain descends, and the floods come, and the winds blow, and beat upon them, they shall fall, and the gates of hell are ready open to receive them.

The gospel is the process by which we get the spirit or the Holy Ghost. Having and following the Holy Ghost is the Rock on which we must build. It tells us the words of Christ from the philosophies of men, so building on the spirit is building on Christ. We are told that this is the only rock or sure foundation on which if we build we cannot fall. It doesn't say we are likely not to fall, it says we CANNOT Fall. On the other hand, if we do not build on this one and only rock, from which we cannot fall, then we are building on what is described as a sandy foundation from which we we will fall. It doesn't tell us that we are likely to fall if we build on the sand, it says we are guaranteed to fall if we build on the sand. Since there is only one rock, all other foundations are sand. If you build on prophets and apostles or following your leaders, then you are building on sand. If you are building on your understanding of the scriptures, then you are building on sand. If you are building on the teachings of Jesus Christ, then you are building on sand. If you are building on the Church approved curriculum, then you are really building on a sandy foundation.

There is only one rock and it is the rock of personal revelation from God through the spirit. Even if you learn truth, if it is received in any other way than by the spirit in personal revelation, then it is still not of God, because it is received via a sandy foundation and you are not built on the rock.

D&C 50
19 And again, he that receiveth the word of truth, doth he receive it by the Spirit of truth or some other way?
20 If it be some other way it is not of God.

Why? Why can't we take away from the doctrine of Christ and it still be considered his doctrine? Why are the gates of hell open to receive those who take even one point away from his doctrine?

Because...

• without true faith, they cannot receive the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost.
• without true repentance, they cannot receive the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost.
• without baptism, the power of God is not manifest to the children of men in the flesh, (D&C 84:20), and so they cannot "witness before the church that they have truly repented of all their sins" (D&C 20:37)
• without the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost, nothing else they have done or will do can save them. They have not entered in at the gate and are not on the path that leads to eternal life.

Because they have not been saved, the gates of hell are open to received them.

Why can't we add to the doctrine of Christ and it still be considered his doctrine? Why are the gates of hell open to receive those who add even one point to his doctrine?

Because...

• If a person has the gift of the Holy Ghost, and
• if the Holy Ghost is supposed to teach them all things, and
• if the Holy Ghost is supposed to tell them all things that they should do, then
• giving even one more doctrine, no matter what it is, is doing the Holy Ghost's job of telling a person what to believe or what to do.

For example, if you tell someone to pay tithing and that paying tithing is a doctrine of Christ, then you are telling them what the Holy Ghost is supposed to tell them. What if they are not supposed to pay tithing? (Not everyone should.)

If for example you tell teach a person about the pre-existence and call that teaching "doctrine" then you are teaching the person what is not your right to teach them and you are denying the Holy Ghost from teaching them all things. What if you teach something false or incorrect, like the church does ALL THE TIME? If we make those things doctrine, then they must be accepted without question, even if they are wrong.

Adding doctrines to Christ's doctrine is encroaching on the role, mission and purpose of having the Holy Ghost which is to teach us all things and show us all things that we should do. Every doctrine added to the doctrine of Christ is speaking evil of the Holy Ghost and saying that it is not capable of teaching you all things. Anything teaching that you call doctrine is being given and received without the spirit, because doctrines are given to people who don't have the spirit to help them get the spirit. Once we have the spirit, we are not to receive anything in any other way than by the spirit. Receiving anything, even if it is true, without the spirit means that it is not of God. There is only one rock and it is the rock of personal revelation from God through the spirit. Even if what was learn is true, if it is received in any other way than by the spirit in personal revelation, then it is still not of God, because it is received via a sandy foundation and encourages us to build on sandy foundations and not to build on the rock or sure foundation.

D&C 50
19 And again, he that receiveth the word of truth, doth he receive it by the Spirit of truth or some other way?
20 If it be some other way it is not of God.

Calling anything a doctrine except the four points of doctrine accepted by the Father, and the Son and the Holy Ghost, is not of God because it is telling you to receive a word of truth by doctrine and not by the spirit.

Ultimately, if we didn't follow the Gospel of Jesus Christ because we accepted as truth that which was given by a prophet or Davidic Servant or some other true or false messenger and relied on a person or a position or a church teachings false doctrines, (any doctrine not given or accepted by Christ), then not only are we not following the gospel, but we are being blinded by the craftiness of men and will end up in the Telestial or Terrestrial and not the Celestial kingdom.

in D&C 76 we are told that the Telestial never accepted the Gospel nor the testimony of Christ, so they never entered in by the gate. We are also told that the Celestial are those who gained the testimony of Christ and walked the path that leads to eternal life and did everything required to reach the end of that path and were sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise to their eternal life. Anyone who did accept the Gospel and testimony of Christ is not Telestial because they didn't receive those things. And, Anyone who didn't reach the end of the path that leads to eternal life isn't Celestial, because the Celestial all reached the end of the path. Which means that if you started the path but never reached the end, then you by default will go to the Terrestrial where we are told that they had the testimony of Christ, but were not valiant in the testimony of Christ unto obtaining the crown, (Celestial Crown). The reason we are told that are not valiant in the testimony of Christ is because they were "blinded by the craftiness of men". This can only happen if they are accepting truth from some other way than by the spirit of truth. It means that they were not built on the rock and were not living the gospel of Jesus Christ.

D&C 76
75 These are they who are honorable men of the earth, who were blinded by the craftiness of men.
76 These are they who receive of his glory, but not of his fulness.
77 These are they who receive of the presence of the Son, but not of the fulness of the Father.
78 Wherefore, they are bodies terrestrial, and not bodies celestial, and differ in glory as the moon differs from the sun.
79 These are they who are not valiant in the testimony of Jesus; wherefore, they obtain not the crown over the kingdom of our God.
80 And now this is the end of the vision which we saw of the terrestrial, that the Lord commanded us to write while we were yet in the Spirit.

The ONLY way to walk the path that leads to eternal life is to receive and follow the spirit and let go of everything you have received accept by the spirit of truth. Question everything by hte spirit that you have learned from the church and from the prophets, and from Elliaison, and from me and your parents, and any other source than the Spirit of Truth. You cannot make it to the Celestial Kingdom by doing everything you are told by the church or by the Davidic Servant or by the prophet or by me. You must have your own revelation, be your own prophet and talk to God for yourself. In the temple endowment, when you are standing at the veil talking to the Lord through the veil, IT IS YOU that are talking to the Lord through the veil, not Peter, James and John. The person assisting you is playing the role of the Holy Ghost guiding you, telling you what to do, but you must do it. No one can speak to the Lord through the veil on your behalf or in proxy for you. If you do not learn to do it, then it will not happen. Only the spirit can properly guide you. Others can give you thoughts and advice and experience, but they can't do it for you.

If someone it telling you to "follow them" or "follow a prophet" and promising you that by doing so you will make it to the Celestial Kingdom, they are wrong and blinding you by the craftiness of men. They are telling you that some man can teach you all things and show you all things that you should do to qualify for the Celestial Kingdom. They are teaching you exactly contrary to the gospel of Jesus Christ and teaching you that which will ensure that you do not make it to the Celestial kingdom.

47 And EVERY ONE that hearkeneth to the voice of the Spirit cometh unto God, even the Father.

Adding to or taking away from the doctrine of Christ comes of evil and opens the gates of hell to receive people, (3 Nephi 11). As the Lord said to us in D&C 10,

D&C 10
62 Yea, and I will, (through the Book of Mormon), also bring to light my gospel which was ministered unto them, (the Nephites), and, behold, they shall not deny that which you have received, but they shall build it up, and shall bring to light the true points of my doctrine, yea, and the only doctrine which is in me.
63 And this I do that I may establish my gospel, that there may not be so much contention; yea, Satan doth stir up the hearts of the people to contention concerning the points of my doctrine; and in these things they do err, for they do wrest the scriptures and do not understand them.
...
67 Behold, this is my doctrine—whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church.
68 Whosoever declareth more or less than this, the same is not of me, but is against me; therefore he is not of my church.

Taking away or adding to Christ's doctrine either prevents people from getting the Holy Ghost or replaces the Holy Ghost in teaching and showing all things that you should do, which is not of God.

You guys really should read the scriptures before you all post again to prevent yourselves from displaying your gross ignorance. But, it's never stopped you guys before....

It's funny that you would say this since I am the one quoting scriptures, and you are the one giving your opinion rarely if at all backed by a scripture. You are the one teaching false doctrines and saying that you see no issue with doing so. You are the one who is saying that the Lord is playing word games even after I have consistently point out over 20 verses which are consistent in teaching that the the four points are the only doctrines and that the main purpose that the Book of Mormon was given was to end contention regarding Christ's doctrine and gospel and that to teach more or less than this and call it Christ's doctrine comes of evil and opens the gates of hell, and Whosoever declareth more or less than this, the same is not of me, but is against me; therefore he is not of my church..

You, Artaxerxes, are declaring more than this as Christ's doctrine. And so, you, Artaxerxes are not of Christ, but are against Christ, therefore you, Artaxerxes, are not of his church.

Also, the formalized, documented, published and preached, core, fundamental, basic doctrines and practices of a church teach for doctrines more than this and so it cannot possibly be his church. This is why the Lord condemned this church saying,

D&C 84
52 And whoso receiveth not my voice is not acquainted with my voice, and is not of me.
53 And by this you may know the righteous from the wicked, and that the whole world groaneth under sin and darkness even now.
54 And your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—
55 Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation.
56 And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all.
57 And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written

The Lord commanded us to have faith in him, repent, and be baptized and promised that if we did we would receive the Holy Ghost which would tell us and show us all things that we should do. This is his gospel and his doctrine. And anyone who teaches more or less than this and declares it his gospel or his doctrine is not of God but fights against God and opens the gates of hell to receive those who believe the false doctrine and false gospel they preach.

In the name of Jesus Christ, Amen

No, it would simply mean you guys are misreading it. Jesus is perfectly clear. This is his doctrine (teaching) for admission to the kingdom of god. He has other doctrine. Lots of it.

2 Nephi 31 says the same thing. "there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end."

Nephi says that's not all (in other words, teaches another doctrine). "I would ask if all is done? Behold, I say unto you, Nay."

Jesus told us to follow the prophet. "and the day cometh that they who will not hear the voice of the Lord, neither the voice of his servants, neither give heed to the words of the prophets and apostles, shall be cut off from among the people;"

Again, you guys cherry pick which of Jesus's words you obey and which you don't. Be sure your entire goal is to justify your own sins, rather than keep the commandments.

Jesus told us to follow the prophet.

I'm not going to follow the "profit"
"When it came time to cut the mall’s flouncy pink ribbon, Monson, flanked by Utah dignitaries, cheered,
"1 2 3 Let's Go Shopping!"

viewtopic.php?p=1267669&hilit=Let%27s+G ... g#p1267669

especially when he's a false one.

Again, you guys cherry pick which of Jesus's words you obey and which you don't.
Be sure your entire goal is to justify your own sins, rather than keep the commandments.

try looking in the mirror when you say that
while trying to justify why - "your entire goal is to justify your own sins, rather than keep the (this) commandments."
because it's obvious - by your comments - that you don't keep this one.

3 Nephi 23:1- 4
1 "And now, behold, I say unto you,
that ye ought to search these things.
Yea, a commandment I give unto
you that ye search these things diligently;
for great are the words of Isaiah."

2 "For surely he spake as touching all things
concerning my people which are of the house of Israel;
therefore it must needs be that he must speak
also to the Gentiles."

3 "And all things that he spake have been - and shall be,
even according to the words which he spake."

4 "Therefore give heed to my words;
write the things which I have told you;
and according to the time and the will
of the Father they shall go forth unto the Gentiles."

3 Nephi 20:11
11 "Ye remember that I spake unto you,
and said that when the words of Isaiah
should be fulfilled—behold they are written,
ye have them before you, therefore search them-"


to quote myself

you sound desperate.
but that's ok. I can understand why - when constantly confronted with truth.

I'm getting really tired of the "all is well in Zion" member; where the church and it's leaders are so great,
and can do no wrong, and the Lord is right there with us every step of the way;
when in reality, we have fallen in apostasy,
(read Isaiah - search his words diligently - as the Lord commanded -
the very 1st chapter in Isaiah - telling of our apostasy -wonder WHY he started his book that way)
and are no longer led by the Lord; and therefore, do not receive revelation, and haven't for over a hundred years.

if you don't know that we are in apostasy, you probably never will.
Because those same members, that put their faith and trust in men and their precepts, and not in Jesus Christ and His words,
will never want to see, much less accept that it could even happen; though our scriptures, and all the warnings in them,
and the Words of Christ say otherwise.
Can one fall from grace ?
Can a people ? who once had the gospel lose it ?
This is indeed what happened to a people in that great book we have -
The Book of Mormon - a book of warning. to WHO ?
Who was the book given to ? who reads the Book of Mormon ?
Have we likened the scriptures unto ourselves ?
Have we heeded the warnings from those great prophets that took so much effort in bringing their words and record to us,
and what happened to them, when they too became full of pride, and fell into apostasy.
You care so much about church leaders and what they say; why not Jesus Christ ?
If Jesus Christ was standing right in front of you would you listen to Him ?
His words are right there - read them, as if He was standing right in front of you when you read them, and respect Him and His words, because He is speaking to you.
Have you kept the commandment that He gave ?
Yea, a commandment I give unto
you that ye search these things diligently;
for great are the words of Isaiah."

If you haven't come to the realization that we are in apostasy, then you haven't read the scriptures enough and put THAT (The Word of God above the church and the words of church leaders.)
If - you don't do that, you will NEVER FIND THE TRUTH !

quote
Elder H. Verlan Andersen, who would later serve in the First Quorum of the Seventy,
made the following observation:

HISTORY WARNS THAT APOSTASY MUST BE EXPECTED

"Religious history testifies that, with the single exception of the inhabitants of the City of Enoch,
“No people to whom the gospel has been given have remained faithful to their covenants for more than a few generations. Time after time the Lord has established His Church among a group who have lived His commandments for a few years and then fallen away, thus bringing upon themselves His judgments.
This cycle of human folly, which so many prophets have noted, has repeated itself with such consistent regularity, that any group which finds itself to be the favored recipients of the gospel would do well to assume that their own apostasy is certain, and the only question about it is how long it will take. . . .
The fact that the Lord has found it necessary to restore His gospel so many times is in itself evidence of the regularity with which apostasy has occurred.".

If you think the Lord still leads the church,
show me any indication of it - any indication at all !
Where are all the revelations received ? - (especially now - when we need it the most)
showing the lord's hand in directing us.
Why have they not been added to our scripture ?
Interesting how our scriptures and revelations in the D&C
ended when we failed to build up Zion.

When the Lord wanted to build up Zion - for the saints to be united - (United Order)
living the Law of consecration and live " by the principles of the law of the celestial kingdom,
otherwise I cannot receive her unto myself",
the saints failed to do so, and we have continued to fall more and more ever since.

[Artaxerxes]

He didn't give more doctrine?
"this is not my doctrine, to stir up the hearts of men with anger, one against another; but this is my doctrine, that such things should be done away."

No, he was not giving more doctrine here. He was not saying, "my doctrine is that such things should be done away", though I can see why you would read it that way because the wording can have multiple meanings. But to read it that way would be inconsistent with ALL the other scriptures that talk about his doctrine and his gospel. And it would mean that his doctrine was faith, repentance, baptism, then cometh the gift of the Holy Ghost and that such things should be done away, and to add to or take away from this list cometh of evil and opens the gates of hell.

Jesus was very clear to say that ALL of his doctrine is included in 3 Nephi 11 and that adding to or taking away from the doctrine taught in that chapter by Jesus comes of evil and opens the gates of hell. Nephi also said that all of the doctrine of Christ was taught in 2 Nephi 31 and that the doctrines taught in 2 Nephi 31 were the only doctrines accepted by the Father, and the Son and the Holy Ghost. I can't find the "doctrine" saying that such things should be done away in 2 Nephi 31. Also, Nephi told us in 2 Nephi 32 that The doctrine of Christ was that we "enter in by the way, and receive the Holy Ghost, it will show unto you all things what ye should do", and that there would be no other doctrine given accept this until Christ came in the flesh. This is the same doctrine repeated several times in both 2 Nephi 31 and 3 Nephi 11 where we are told it is the only doctrine of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. In none of these other references does it say that Christ's doctrine includes "that these things should be done away". The other way to read that verse is with the comma between "doctrine" and "that" which means "I'm telling you my doctrine, so that the disputing about my doctrine will stop among you" or "this is my doctrine, that such things should be done away". Not "my doctrine is that such things should be done away." (no comma)

I'm amazed you guys consistently downplay the savior's own words. But when you have an ax to grind...

(Face Palm) Put the mirror down friend.

You guys have no idea how extremely important ALL of the saviors words are, and by cherry picking to only follow snippets when it agreed with you and gives you license to sin, you guys damn yourselves.

All of the Saviors words are important, but they are not all equally important. Some of the things he said are more important than other things he said. You are making ALL of the Savior's words equal with the specific words that are his doctrine. This is incorrect. And, as odd as it may sound to you, it is more important to speak positively about the Holy Ghost than it is to speak positively about Jesus Christ. And it is this principle which makes the Gospel or Doctrine of Christ more important than the other teachings of Christ because the doctrine of Christ is everything needed for a person to gain the Holy Ghost, and gaining the Holy Ghost is more important than following all the other teachings of Jesus which do not get a person the Holy Ghost. For example, Jesus said that to hate your neighbor in your heart is to commit murder in your heart. A person could find value in his teachings and apply that teaching and still not have the Holy Ghost or the Testimony of Christ gained through the Holy Ghost. If a person receives the teachings of Jesus but not a testimony of him or his gospel, they still only qualify for the Telestial Kingdom.

D&C 76
98 And the glory of the telestial is one, even as the glory of the stars is one; for as one star differs from another star in glory, even so differs one from another in glory in the telestial world;
99 For these are they who are of Paul, and of Apollos, and of Cephas.
100 These are they who say they are some of one and some of another—some of Christ and some of John, and some of Moses, and some of Elias, and some of Esaias, and some of Isaiah, and some of Enoch;
101 But received not the gospel, neither the testimony of Jesus, neither the prophets, neither the everlasting covenant.

The Telestial may have accepted some of the teachings of Christ, but they didn't receive the Gospel of Jesus Christ and so they remain Telestial. Yes, the doctrines of Christ and his gospel are more important than any of his other words. The reason again is because they are the steps a person needs to take to receive the Holy Ghost. How important is the Holy Ghost as compared to Jesus Christ?

Well, Jesus Christ is VERY important, but you can blaspheme him and speak evil about him and still be forgiven. You cannot blaspheme or speak evil of the Holy Ghost and be forgiven. Speaking against Jesus is pardonable, but speaking against the Holy Ghost is unpardonable. This is how Jesus said this.

Matthew 12:31–32
31 ¶ Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

The Gospel is all about receiving and following the Holy Ghost. Jesus, who is the Son of Man, said that if you speak evil against him it can be forgiven, but if you speak evil against the Holy Ghost it will not be forgiven you. This clearly places a higher priority on the importance of following the Holy Ghost. Just as the Holy Ghost has a special place in our lives, so too does the gospel and doctrine of Christ which is given for us to receive the Holy Ghost. It takes priority and precedence over all other principles, ordinances, teachings and commandments. It is the MOST important thing we can learn, understand and follow, more than all the other teachings of Christ. That's why it alone is the doctrine, and nothing else ranks equal with it in importance and priority.

But that is only the beginning...

Look at the promise given for following the doctrine and gospel of Christ as compared with the curse for not. This promise is repeated again and again the same way.

I'll mark the blessing for following the doctrine and gospel in green and the curse for not following in red so it is easier to see...

3 Nephi 11
39 Verily, verily, I say unto you, that this is my doctrine, and whoso buildeth upon this buildeth upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them.
40 And whoso shall declare more or less than this, and establish it for my doctrine, the same cometh of evil, and is not built upon my rock; but he buildeth upon a sandy foundation, and the gates of hell stand open to receive such when the floods come and the winds beat upon them.

D&C 10
67 Behold, this is my doctrine—whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church.
68 Whosoever declareth more or less than this, the same is not of me, but is against me; therefore he is not of my church.
69 And now, behold, whosoever is of my church, and endureth of my church to the end, him will I establish upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them.

Oliver Cowdery transcribed the Book of Mormon and the Lord said to him the following:

D&C 18
2 Behold, I have manifested unto you, by my Spirit in many instances, that the things which you have written, (the Book of Mormon) are true; wherefore you know that they are true.
3 And if you know that they are true, behold, I give unto you a commandment, that you rely upon the things which are written;
4 For in them are all things written concerning the foundation of my church, my gospel, and my rock.
5 Wherefore, if you shall build up my church, upon the foundation of my gospel and my rock, the gates of hell shall not prevail against you.

Matt. 16
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven, (by the spirit whaich is neither flesh nor blood).
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

D&C 33
11 Yea, repent and be baptized, every one of you, for a remission of your sins; yea, be baptized even by water, and then cometh the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost.
12 Behold, verily, verily, I say unto you, this is my gospel; and remember that they shall have faith in me or they can in nowise be saved;
13 And upon this rock I will build my church; yea, upon this rock ye are built, and if ye continue, the gates of hell shall not prevail against you.

Hel. 5
12 And now, my sons, remember, remember that it is upon the rock of our Redeemer, who is Christ, the Son of God, that ye must build your foundation; that when the devil shall send forth his mighty winds, yea, his shafts in the whirlwind, yea, when all his hail and his mighty storm shall beat upon you, it shall have no power over you to drag you down to the gulf of misery and endless wo, because of the rock upon which ye are built, which is a sure foundation, a foundation whereon if men build they cannot fall.

3 Nephi 18
11 And this (Administer the Sacrament as a continual reminder of Christ) shall ye always do to those who repent and are baptized in my name; and ye shall do it in remembrance of my blood, which I have shed for you, that ye may witness unto the Father that ye do always remember me. And if ye do always remember me ye shall have my Spirit to be with you.
12 And I give unto you a commandment that ye shall do these things. And if ye shall always do these things blessed are ye, for ye are built upon my rock.
13 But whoso among you shall do more or less than these are not built upon my rock, but are built upon a sandy foundation; and when the rain descends, and the floods come, and the winds blow, and beat upon them, they shall fall, and the gates of hell are ready open to receive them.

The gospel is the process by which we get the spirit or the Holy Ghost. Having and following the Holy Ghost is the Rock on which we must build. It tells us the words of Christ from the philosophies of men, so building on the spirit is building on Christ. We are told that this is the only rock or sure foundation on which if we build we cannot fall. It doesn't say we are likely not to fall, it says we CANNOT Fall. On the other hand, if we do not build on this one and only rock, from which we cannot fall, then we are building on what is described as a sandy foundation from which we we will fall. It doesn't tell us that we are likely to fall if we build on the sand, it says we are guaranteed to fall if we build on the sand. Since there is only one rock, all other foundations are sand. If you build on prophets and apostles or following your leaders, then you are building on sand. If you are building on your understanding of the scriptures, then you are building on sand. If you are building on the teachings of Jesus Christ, then you are building on sand. If you are building on the Church approved curriculum, then you are really building on a sandy foundation.

There is only one rock and it is the rock of personal revelation from God through the spirit. Even if you learn truth, if it is received in any other way than by the spirit in personal revelation, then it is still not of God, because it is received via a sandy foundation and you are not built on the rock.

D&C 50
19 And again, he that receiveth the word of truth, doth he receive it by the Spirit of truth or some other way?
20 If it be some other way it is not of God.

Why? Why can't we take away from the doctrine of Christ and it still be considered his doctrine? Why are the gates of hell open to receive those who take even one point away from his doctrine?

Because...

• without true faith, they cannot receive the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost.
• without true repentance, they cannot receive the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost.
• without baptism, the power of God is not manifest to the children of men in the flesh, (D&C 84:20), and so they cannot "witness before the church that they have truly repented of all their sins" (D&C 20:37)
• without the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost, nothing else they have done or will do can save them. They have not entered in at the gate and are not on the path that leads to eternal life.

Because they have not been saved, the gates of hell are open to received them.

Why can't we add to the doctrine of Christ and it still be considered his doctrine? Why are the gates of hell open to receive those who add even one point to his doctrine?

Because...

• If a person has the gift of the Holy Ghost, and
• if the Holy Ghost is supposed to teach them all things, and
• if the Holy Ghost is supposed to tell them all things that they should do, then
• giving even one more doctrine, no matter what it is, is doing the Holy Ghost's job of telling a person what to believe or what to do.

For example, if you tell someone to pay tithing and that paying tithing is a doctrine of Christ, then you are telling them what the Holy Ghost is supposed to tell them. What if they are not supposed to pay tithing? (Not everyone should.)

If for example you tell teach a person about the pre-existence and call that teaching "doctrine" then you are teaching the person what is not your right to teach them and you are denying the Holy Ghost from teaching them all things. What if you teach something false or incorrect, like the church does ALL THE TIME? If we make those things doctrine, then they must be accepted without question, even if they are wrong.

Adding doctrines to Christ's doctrine is encroaching on the role, mission and purpose of having the Holy Ghost which is to teach us all things and show us all things that we should do. Every doctrine added to the doctrine of Christ is speaking evil of the Holy Ghost and saying that it is not capable of teaching you all things. Anything teaching that you call doctrine is being given and received without the spirit, because doctrines are given to people who don't have the spirit to help them get the spirit. Once we have the spirit, we are not to receive anything in any other way than by the spirit. Receiving anything, even if it is true, without the spirit means that it is not of God. There is only one rock and it is the rock of personal revelation from God through the spirit. Even if what was learn is true, if it is received in any other way than by the spirit in personal revelation, then it is still not of God, because it is received via a sandy foundation and encourages us to build on sandy foundations and not to build on the rock or sure foundation.

D&C 50
19 And again, he that receiveth the word of truth, doth he receive it by the Spirit of truth or some other way?
20 If it be some other way it is not of God.

Calling anything a doctrine except the four points of doctrine accepted by the Father, and the Son and the Holy Ghost, is not of God because it is telling you to receive a word of truth by doctrine and not by the spirit.

Ultimately, if we didn't follow the Gospel of Jesus Christ because we accepted as truth that which was given by a prophet or Davidic Servant or some other true or false messenger and relied on a person or a position or a church teachings false doctrines, (any doctrine not given or accepted by Christ), then not only are we not following the gospel, but we are being blinded by the craftiness of men and will end up in the Telestial or Terrestrial and not the Celestial kingdom.

in D&C 76 we are told that the Telestial never accepted the Gospel nor the testimony of Christ, so they never entered in by the gate. We are also told that the Celestial are those who gained the testimony of Christ and walked the path that leads to eternal life and did everything required to reach the end of that path and were sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise to their eternal life. Anyone who did accept the Gospel and testimony of Christ is not Telestial because they didn't receive those things. And, Anyone who didn't reach the end of the path that leads to eternal life isn't Celestial, because the Celestial all reached the end of the path. Which means that if you started the path but never reached the end, then you by default will go to the Terrestrial where we are told that they had the testimony of Christ, but were not valiant in the testimony of Christ unto obtaining the crown, (Celestial Crown). The reason we are told that are not valiant in the testimony of Christ is because they were "blinded by the craftiness of men". This can only happen if they are accepting truth from some other way than by the spirit of truth. It means that they were not built on the rock and were not living the gospel of Jesus Christ.

D&C 76
75 These are they who are honorable men of the earth, who were blinded by the craftiness of men.
76 These are they who receive of his glory, but not of his fulness.
77 These are they who receive of the presence of the Son, but not of the fulness of the Father.
78 Wherefore, they are bodies terrestrial, and not bodies celestial, and differ in glory as the moon differs from the sun.
79 These are they who are not valiant in the testimony of Jesus; wherefore, they obtain not the crown over the kingdom of our God.
80 And now this is the end of the vision which we saw of the terrestrial, that the Lord commanded us to write while we were yet in the Spirit.

The ONLY way to walk the path that leads to eternal life is to receive and follow the spirit and let go of everything you have received accept by the spirit of truth. Question everything by hte spirit that you have learned from the church and from the prophets, and from Elliaison, and from me and your parents, and any other source than the Spirit of Truth. You cannot make it to the Celestial Kingdom by doing everything you are told by the church or by the Davidic Servant or by the prophet or by me. You must have your own revelation, be your own prophet and talk to God for yourself. In the temple endowment, when you are standing at the veil talking to the Lord through the veil, IT IS YOU that are talking to the Lord through the veil, not Peter, James and John. The person assisting you is playing the role of the Holy Ghost guiding you, telling you what to do, but you must do it. No one can speak to the Lord through the veil on your behalf or in proxy for you. If you do not learn to do it, then it will not happen. Only the spirit can properly guide you. Others can give you thoughts and advice and experience, but they can't do it for you.

If someone it telling you to "follow them" or "follow a prophet" and promising you that by doing so you will make it to the Celestial Kingdom, they are wrong and blinding you by the craftiness of men. They are telling you that some man can teach you all things and show you all things that you should do to qualify for the Celestial Kingdom. They are teaching you exactly contrary to the gospel of Jesus Christ and teaching you that which will ensure that you do not make it to the Celestial kingdom.

47 And EVERY ONE that hearkeneth to the voice of the Spirit cometh unto God, even the Father.

Adding to or taking away from the doctrine of Christ comes of evil and opens the gates of hell to receive people, (3 Nephi 11). As the Lord said to us in D&C 10,

D&C 10
62 Yea, and I will, (through the Book of Mormon), also bring to light my gospel which was ministered unto them, (the Nephites), and, behold, they shall not deny that which you have received, but they shall build it up, and shall bring to light the true points of my doctrine, yea, and the only doctrine which is in me.
63 And this I do that I may establish my gospel, that there may not be so much contention; yea, Satan doth stir up the hearts of the people to contention concerning the points of my doctrine; and in these things they do err, for they do wrest the scriptures and do not understand them.
...
67 Behold, this is my doctrine—whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church.
68 Whosoever declareth more or less than this, the same is not of me, but is against me; therefore he is not of my church.

Taking away or adding to Christ's doctrine either prevents people from getting the Holy Ghost or replaces the Holy Ghost in teaching and showing all things that you should do, which is not of God.

You guys really should read the scriptures before you all post again to prevent yourselves from displaying your gross ignorance. But, it's never stopped you guys before....

It's funny that you would say this since I am the one quoting scriptures, and you are the one giving your opinion rarely if at all backed by a scripture. You are the one teaching false doctrines and saying that you see no issue with doing so. You are the one who is saying that the Lord is playing word games even after I have consistently point out over 20 verses which are consistent in teaching that the the four points are the only doctrines and that the main purpose that the Book of Mormon was given was to end contention regarding Christ's doctrine and gospel and that to teach more or less than this and call it Christ's doctrine comes of evil and opens the gates of hell, and Whosoever declareth more or less than this, the same is not of me, but is against me; therefore he is not of my church..

You, Artaxerxes, are declaring more than this as Christ's doctrine. And so, you, Artaxerxes are not of Christ, but are against Christ, therefore you, Artaxerxes, are not of his church.

Also, the formalized, documented, published and preached, core, fundamental, basic doctrines and practices of a church teach for doctrines more than this and so it cannot possibly be his church. This is why the Lord condemned this church saying,

D&C 84
52 And whoso receiveth not my voice is not acquainted with my voice, and is not of me.
53 And by this you may know the righteous from the wicked, and that the whole world groaneth under sin and darkness even now.
54 And your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—
55 Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation.
56 And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all.
57 And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written

The Lord commanded us to have faith in him, repent, and be baptized and promised that if we did we would receive the Holy Ghost which would tell us and show us all things that we should do. This is his gospel and his doctrine. And anyone who teaches more or less than this and declares it his gospel or his doctrine is not of God but fights against God and opens the gates of hell to receive those who believe the false doctrine and false gospel they preach.

In the name of Jesus Christ, Amen

No, it would simply mean you guys are misreading it. Jesus is perfectly clear. This is his doctrine (teaching) for admission to the kingdom of god. He has other doctrine. Lots of it.

2 Nephi 31 says the same thing. "there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end."

Nephi says that's not all (in other words, teaches another doctrine). "I would ask if all is done? Behold, I say unto you, Nay."

Jesus told us to follow the prophet. "and the day cometh that they who will not hear the voice of the Lord, neither the voice of his servants, neither give heed to the words of the prophets and apostles, shall be cut off from among the people;"

Again, you guys cherry pick which of Jesus's words you obey and which you don't. Be sure your entire goal is to justify your own sins, rather than keep the commandments.

Jesus told us to follow the prophet.

I'm not going to follow the "profit"
"When it came time to cut the mall’s flouncy pink ribbon, Monson, flanked by Utah dignitaries, cheered,
"1 2 3 Let's Go Shopping!"

viewtopic.php?p=1267669&hilit=Let%27s+G ... g#p1267669

especially when he's a false one.

Again, you guys cherry pick which of Jesus's words you obey and which you don't.
Be sure your entire goal is to justify your own sins, rather than keep the commandments.

try looking in the mirror when you say that
while trying to justify why - "your entire goal is to justify your own sins, rather than keep the (this) commandments."
because it's obvious - by your comments - that you don't keep this one.

Yea, a commandment I give unto
you that ye search these things diligently;
for great are the words of Isaiah."

to quote myself

you sound desperate.
but that's ok. I can understand why - when constantly confronted with truth.

I'm getting really tired of the "all is well in Zion" member; where the church and it's leaders are so great,
and can do no wrong, and the Lord is right there with us every step of the way;
when in reality, we have fallen in apostasy,
(read Isaiah - search his words diligently - as the Lord commanded -
the very 1st chapter in Isaiah - telling of our apostasy -wonder WHY he started his book that way)
and are no longer led by the Lord; and therefore, do not receive revelation, and haven't for over a hundred years.

if you don't know that we are in apostasy, you probably never will.
Because those same members, that put their faith and trust in men and their precepts, and not in Jesus Christ and His words,
will never want to see, much less accept that it could even happen; though our scriptures, and all the warnings in them,
and the Words of Christ say otherwise.
Can one fall from grace ?
Can a people ? who once had the gospel lose it ?
This is indeed what happened to a people in that great book we have -
The Book of Mormon - a book of warning. to WHO ?
Who was the book given to ? who reads the Book of Mormon ?
Have we likened the scriptures unto ourselves ?
Have we heeded the warnings from those great prophets that took so much effort in bringing their words and record to us,
and what happened to them, when they too became full of pride, and fell into apostasy.
You care so much about church leaders and what they say; why not Jesus Christ ?
If Jesus Christ was standing right in front of you would you listen to Him ?
His words are right there - read them, as if He was standing right in front of you when you read them, and respect Him and His words, because He is speaking to you.
Have you kept the commandment that He gave ?
Yea, a commandment I give unto
you that ye search these things diligently;
for great are the words of Isaiah."

If you haven't come to the realization that we are in apostasy, then you haven't read the scriptures enough and put THAT (The Word of God above the church and the words of church leaders.)
If - you don't do that, you will NEVER FIND THE TRUTH !

quote
Elder H. Verlan Andersen, who would later serve in the First Quorum of the Seventy,
made the following observation:

HISTORY WARNS THAT APOSTASY MUST BE EXPECTED

"Religious history testifies that, with the single exception of the inhabitants of the City of Enoch,
“No people to whom the gospel has been given have remained faithful to their covenants for more than a few generations. Time after time the Lord has established His Church among a group who have lived His commandments for a few years and then fallen away, thus bringing upon themselves His judgments.
This cycle of human folly, which so many prophets have noted, has repeated itself with such consistent regularity, that any group which finds itself to be the favored recipients of the gospel would do well to assume that their own apostasy is certain, and the only question about it is how long it will take. . . .
The fact that the Lord has found it necessary to restore His gospel so many times is in itself evidence of the regularity with which apostasy has occurred.".

If you think the Lord still leads the church,
show me any indication of it - any indication at all !
Where are all the revelations received ? - (especially now - when we need it the most)
showing the lord's hand in directing us.
Why have they not been added to our scripture ?
Interesting how our scriptures and revelations in the D&C
ended when we failed to build up Zion.

When the Lord wanted to build up Zion - for the saints to be united - (United Order)
living the Law of consecration and live " by the principles of the law of the celestial kingdom,
otherwise I cannot receive her unto myself",
the saints failed to do so, and we have continued to fall more and more ever since.

Oh no! A prophet wanted people to .... be able to buy things. How dare he?

The D&C discusses one corporation (as far as I can tell). What were His feelings on it? Was He for or against?

No one says all is well in Zion. You church haters continuously resurrect this strawman instead of attempting to argue the issue on the merits because you can't.

We don't have to make up or guess who the BoM was written to. It tells us it was written to and for non-members. "Which is to show unto the remnant of the house of Israel what great things the Lord hath done for their fathers; and that they may know the covenants of the Lord, that they are not cast off forever—And also to the convincing of the Jew and Gentile that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God, manifesting himself unto all nations." Again, you guys choose to ignore what the BoM actually says in favor of your own narrative.

I think the best testimony of the Lord leading His church has been the preparations done years ahead of time to prepare for the pandemic lockdowns. Changing to a home centered church, to ministering, and getting rid of BSA. All fantastic changes, all of which made surviving the pandemic so much easier.