Another report of the church abusing the abused.

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Atrasado
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Re: Another report of the church abusing the abused.

Post by Atrasado »

blitzinstripes wrote: September 26th, 2022, 3:47 am I hate to say it and I could be wrong. But if the perpetrator was some no-name councilor in a YM presidency, I don't think you would have seen such a "circle the wagons" response from the church. Makes me wonder if the accused was a general authority?
I was just wondering the same thing, sadly enough.

You know, them worrying about the "good name of the Church" like this will end up nearly destroying the Church, just as prophesied in D&C 101. In this case, the cover-up is not worse than the crime, but quite nearly equal. Would to God that all these perpetrators would be exposed for who and what they are.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Another report of the church abusing the abused.

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Atrasado wrote: September 26th, 2022, 10:12 am
blitzinstripes wrote: September 26th, 2022, 3:47 am I hate to say it and I could be wrong. But if the perpetrator was some no-name councilor in a YM presidency, I don't think you would have seen such a "circle the wagons" response from the church. Makes me wonder if the accused was a general authority?
I was just wondering the same thing, sadly enough.

You know, them worrying about the "good name of the Church" like this will end up nearly destroying the Church, just as prophesied in D&C 101. In this case, the cover-up is not worse than the crime, but quite nearly equal. Would to God that all these perpetrators would be exposed for who and what they are.
What were previously known as "church courts" used this same theology of "protecting the good name of the church." Half of the council was supposedly there to defend the person in question, while the other half were there to defend the church. Now that is all done away with now that church courts are handled exclusively by the stake presidency. I think the church was losing high councilors when people began speaking up about their supposed "apostasy."

FoundMyEden
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Re: Another report of the church abusing the abused.

Post by FoundMyEden »

Robin Hood wrote: September 25th, 2022, 10:19 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 25th, 2022, 8:19 am I ran across this story on FB this morning. She was abused as a child and reported/confided this information to 17 different church leaders in private. When she went public the area authority did some very heinous acts. Unfortunately this pattern of abusing the abused is not an anomaly. Wake up people. The church is full of wolves.

Marybeth Long

FB 9.24.2022 (This is her post from yesterday)
——
Four years ago today, in the midst of recovering from surgery, I received a letter from the LDS Church in regards to going public about my childhood abuse. It started me on a path I never could have predicted at the time. In some ways it broke me . . . meeting vile humans who betray, take advantage, manipulate, prey on the vulnerable, and promise one thing and deliver nothing. However, when I can catch a glimpse the bigger picture, sharing my story is the best thing I have ever done. It has given me a voice and a lot of courage, brought understanding and closeness to my siblings, and I have been blessed with new friends and new grand adventures.

Would I start the path again despite the cost? I think so. There is still such a need for awareness, such a need to help children of every religion and every organization find safety, such a need to call out the bogus belief that it "only happens to other kids” or “it happens so rarely.” If the last four years have taught me anything . . . every child can be a victim . . . and every child deserves to be safe . . . and it happens more than we want to believe. And that is why I will never regret starting the journey.


FB 10.17.2019 (This is her post from three years ago)
———
Not a lot of my thoughts rise to the level of Facebook-post worthy. I have extremely strict criteria: snide remarks about my day, snide remarks about the Cougar Football team, or snide remarks about Utah’s ever evolving winter. I don’t take myself or Facebook very seriously.

Last year my life changed. I have needed . . . and wanted . . . to share a piece of this chapter with each of you. So bear with me . . .

I was sexually abused as a child by a member of my Church. I never forgot; never repressed it. I told my bishop at 7 and a therapist at 16. Both failed to report. Last year I confided in my 17th Church leader about the shame and guilt and self-hatred I carry and my struggle with God.

The result of sharing my story again last year created a series of events too complicated for this post. But in September 2018, I received a letter from Salt Lake City signed by my Area Authority: if I speak out about my abuse to an attorney or the press, a disciplinary court could be warranted for my apostate behavior. I was caught off guard and deeply hurt because I never even suggested such a thing.

In the ensuing 13 months, I have found my story is not all that unique. I have met many victims who share similar experiences. Any attempt to seek help or speak up is met with shame and silencing. Most victims are leaving the Church. We have an epidemic hidden in the shadows and swept under the carpet. Sexual abuse victims are being silenced by money, shame, guilt, and threats. The press is being threatened and won’t touch the stories.

I would have never believed it if I hadn’t lived it. When I opted to go public in August with an amazing reporter at a local news affiliate, my bishop and stake president were contacted by Church authorities and my private priest/penitent confessions were shared to discredit me. The Church shared my confessions - as tame as they are - with the press . . . breaking so many laws and breaking my heart. I felt so betrayed.

My story is not anti-Mormon; that has never been my desire or intent. But it IS a call for awareness. A call for change. A call for a change of policy that puts abuse victims first and foremost in every Church and every organization. A call that we can - we must - be better at protecting our children.

A special thanks to the new undercover heroes I met this year. So many of you are among them. I have been so supported by family and friends as I have found my voice and my confidence . . . and a little more courage every day. Thank you for your love and support.
Lots of words but no detail; or certainly not enough for us to make anything of this story.
I could share my details of abuse, lies, and cover-ups from priesthood holders in the church…oh wait, I already did…and it was covered up. I was belittled, ignored, and called names. Even members “testified” against me, claiming I was lying and making things up. People said I was suicidal and wanted to cause injury to myself when I didn’t. Many of them were hiding skeletons in their own closets and didn’t like being called out for not being a perfect Mormon. It’s just reality. It happens more often than not, but if you say it happens in their own house then they think they can’t claim to be of the “true church”, so they hide the flaws to show their works as good but their hearts are far from it.

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TheChristian
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Re: Another report of the church abusing the abused.

Post by TheChristian »

The problem with churchs are they are filled with imperfect people, there are all kinds of people attending said churchs for a myriad of different reasons............
Its like a farmers field that the farmer came and plowed, then sowed wheat, then the farmer was called away to a far off land and the field was left to itself and so all manner of weeds and brambles swiftly seeded amongst the newly plowed field with the wheat sowed in it and so both the wheat and the weeds grew together in the absence of the farmer..........
Naturally many grass weeds resemble wheat and grow taller and stronger than the wheat, hence seem to stand out and preside over the smaller wheat..........
And so it is in churchs, the rich, the learned and the powerfull obtain all the best seats in a church to the detriment of the poorer members whoms wealth is their faith, like the wheat they are choked out and suppressed by the bigger more powerfull grass weeds that resemble wheat but bear no yield,..........
There will come a time when the farmer will return to his field to harvest it........

blitzinstripes
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Re: Another report of the church abusing the abused.

Post by blitzinstripes »

Someone remind me again, who was the defense attorney that represented Christ when he went before Pilate?

The truth needs no special defense. It can stand on its own. If a LDS man is guilty of a heinous act such as SA, I don't care if it's RMN. Let him go to trial publicly and suffer his just fate.

Likewise, if the church is what they claim to be: the only true and living church, then as JS taught, no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing.

You simply don't need to worry about protecting it's reputation. God will do that himself if we are righteous and true. A few bad apples won't ruin the barrel.

If the church is true, then He protects it with His mighty hand. So why should SLC be worried about it? Either they don't believe they are actually "true", or they don't believe in God's protective power.

But neither belief, nor lack of, justifies covering up evil, immoral crimes and turning their backs on victims. That's "millstone around the neck" stuff, and I wouldn't want to have to answer to Almighty God for that.

blitzinstripes
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Re: Another report of the church abusing the abused.

Post by blitzinstripes »

TheChristian wrote: September 26th, 2022, 5:24 pm The problem with churchs are they are filled with imperfect people, there are all kinds of people attending said churchs for a myriad of different reasons............
Its like a farmers field that the farmer came and plowed, then sowed wheat, then the farmer was called away to a far off land and the field was left to itself and so all manner of weeds and brambles swiftly seeded amongst the newly plowed field with the wheat sowed in it and so both the wheat and the weeds grew together in the absence of the farmer..........
Naturally many grass weeds resemble wheat and grow taller and stronger than the wheat, hence seem to stand out and preside over the smaller wheat..........
And so it is in churchs, the rich, the learned and the powerfull obtain all the best seats in a church to the detriment of the poorer members whoms wealth is their faith, like the wheat they are choked out and suppressed by the bigger more powerfull grass weeds that resemble wheat but bear no yield,..........
There will come a time when the farmer will return to his field to harvest it........
Excellent post, Christian. Thank you.

LDS Watchman
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Re: Another report of the church abusing the abused.

Post by LDS Watchman »

blitzinstripes wrote: September 26th, 2022, 5:35 pm Someone remind me again, who was the defense attorney that represented Christ when he went before Pilate?

The truth needs no special defense. It can stand on its own. If a LDS man is guilty of a heinous act such as SA, I don't care if it's RMN. Let him go to trial publicly and suffer his just fate.

Likewise, if the church is what they claim to be: the only true and living church, then as JS taught, no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing.

You simply don't need to worry about protecting it's reputation. God will do that himself if we are righteous and true. A few bad apples won't ruin the barrel.

If the church is true, then He protects it with His mighty hand. So why should SLC be worried about it? Either they don't believe they are actually "true", or they don't believe in God's protective power.

But neither belief, nor lack of, justifies covering up evil, immoral crimes and turning their backs on victims. That's "millstone around the neck" stuff, and I wouldn't want to have to answer to Almighty God for that.
This argument doesn't square with reality.

Joseph Smith had lawyers defend him and he even sued people. He also took many measures to protect the image of the church. He wrote and published many rebuttals to charges against the church in addition to writing and publishing reports denoucing apostates and other enemies of the church for their wicked deeds.

The church has every right to defend itself in court and take measures to protect its image and set the record straight on false or misleading reports. We can't just sit back and do nothing and expect God to just take care if everything for us.

blitzinstripes
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Re: Another report of the church abusing the abused.

Post by blitzinstripes »

No unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing. Persecutions may rage, mobs may combine, armies may assemble. Calumny may defame. But the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobody, and independent.....JS

YOU EITHER HAVE DIVINE PROVIDENCE, OR YOU DON'T. WE ARE EITHER "TRUER" THAN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, OR WE ARE NOT. They spend millions covering up their abuses in order to "save" their reputation. Stop believing that a church that claims to be God's one "true" church needs mortal men to defend it's reputation. It's no wonder that most of the church and the world really have no faith nor belief in miracles today. You think you are so damned important that God needs YOUR protection. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

My best advice for you, take it or leave it. I don't care either way. Stop putting your faith in the arm of flesh and actually learn to trust in God. You might be surprised what He will do when you get out of his way and stop thumping your own chest. He really does work miracles, when we actually LET HIM. He doesn't need man's lawyers.

Shocker: He doesn't NEED your money, either. 😉

LDS Watchman
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Re: Another report of the church abusing the abused.

Post by LDS Watchman »

blitzinstripes wrote: September 26th, 2022, 6:24 pm No unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing. Persecutions may rage, mobs may combine, armies may assemble. Calumny may defame. But the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobody, and independent.....JS

YOU EITHER HAVE DIVINE PROVIDENCE, OR YOU DON'T. WE ARE EITHER "TRUER" THAN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, OR WE ARE NOT. They spend millions covering up their abuses in order to "save" their reputation. Stop believing that a church that claims to be God's one "true" church needs mortal men to defend it's reputation. It's no wonder that most of the church and the world really have no faith nor belief in miracles today. You think you are so damned important that God needs YOUR protection. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

My best advice for you, take it or leave it. I don't care either way. Stop putting your faith in the arm of flesh and actually learn to trust in God. You might be surprised what He will do when you get out of his way and stop thumping your own chest. He really does work miracles, when we actually LET HIM. He doesn't need man's lawyers.

Shocker: He doesn't NEED your money, either. 😉
What your calling for we would be equivalent to the Nephites not defending themselves against the Lamanites and simply relying on God to protect them with no effort on their own because after all they were the Lord's chosen people so the Lamanites were incapable of harming them.

We live in the real world, not utopia. God expects us to do all we can to move the work forward. He will help us, but he's not going to do it all for us.

endlessismyname
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Re: Another report of the church abusing the abused.

Post by endlessismyname »

Atrasado wrote: September 25th, 2022, 11:30 am
Robin Hood wrote: September 25th, 2022, 10:19 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 25th, 2022, 8:19 am I ran across this story on FB this morning. She was abused as a child and reported/confided this information to 17 different church leaders in private. When she went public the area authority did some very heinous acts. Unfortunately this pattern of abusing the abused is not an anomaly. Wake up people. The church is full of wolves.

Marybeth Long

FB 9.24.2022 (This is her post from yesterday)
——
Four years ago today, in the midst of recovering from surgery, I received a letter from the LDS Church in regards to going public about my childhood abuse. It started me on a path I never could have predicted at the time. In some ways it broke me . . . meeting vile humans who betray, take advantage, manipulate, prey on the vulnerable, and promise one thing and deliver nothing. However, when I can catch a glimpse the bigger picture, sharing my story is the best thing I have ever done. It has given me a voice and a lot of courage, brought understanding and closeness to my siblings, and I have been blessed with new friends and new grand adventures.

Would I start the path again despite the cost? I think so. There is still such a need for awareness, such a need to help children of every religion and every organization find safety, such a need to call out the bogus belief that it "only happens to other kids” or “it happens so rarely.” If the last four years have taught me anything . . . every child can be a victim . . . and every child deserves to be safe . . . and it happens more than we want to believe. And that is why I will never regret starting the journey.


FB 10.17.2019 (This is her post from three years ago)
———
Not a lot of my thoughts rise to the level of Facebook-post worthy. I have extremely strict criteria: snide remarks about my day, snide remarks about the Cougar Football team, or snide remarks about Utah’s ever evolving winter. I don’t take myself or Facebook very seriously.

Last year my life changed. I have needed . . . and wanted . . . to share a piece of this chapter with each of you. So bear with me . . .

I was sexually abused as a child by a member of my Church. I never forgot; never repressed it. I told my bishop at 7 and a therapist at 16. Both failed to report. Last year I confided in my 17th Church leader about the shame and guilt and self-hatred I carry and my struggle with God.

The result of sharing my story again last year created a series of events too complicated for this post. But in September 2018, I received a letter from Salt Lake City signed by my Area Authority: if I speak out about my abuse to an attorney or the press, a disciplinary court could be warranted for my apostate behavior. I was caught off guard and deeply hurt because I never even suggested such a thing.

In the ensuing 13 months, I have found my story is not all that unique. I have met many victims who share similar experiences. Any attempt to seek help or speak up is met with shame and silencing. Most victims are leaving the Church. We have an epidemic hidden in the shadows and swept under the carpet. Sexual abuse victims are being silenced by money, shame, guilt, and threats. The press is being threatened and won’t touch the stories.

I would have never believed it if I hadn’t lived it. When I opted to go public in August with an amazing reporter at a local news affiliate, my bishop and stake president were contacted by Church authorities and my private priest/penitent confessions were shared to discredit me. The Church shared my confessions - as tame as they are - with the press . . . breaking so many laws and breaking my heart. I felt so betrayed.

My story is not anti-Mormon; that has never been my desire or intent. But it IS a call for awareness. A call for change. A call for a change of policy that puts abuse victims first and foremost in every Church and every organization. A call that we can - we must - be better at protecting our children.

A special thanks to the new undercover heroes I met this year. So many of you are among them. I have been so supported by family and friends as I have found my voice and my confidence . . . and a little more courage every day. Thank you for your love and support.
Lots of words but no detail; or certainly not enough for us to make anything of this story.
I am confused by your thought process. Maybe she's lying. But what if she isn't? What if she can produce the letter? Do you just ignore anyone who says something you don't like or can't understand?
I know you didn’t ask me, but I’ll just say that I firmly believe in the principle of innocent until proven guilty, and nothing in her story comes even close to meeting a burden of proof.

One of the scourges of our day is people’s belief that they MUST have an opinion on EVERYTHING, no matter how ignorant they are regarding a subject.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Another report of the church abusing the abused.

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

endlessismyname wrote: September 26th, 2022, 7:31 pm
Atrasado wrote: September 25th, 2022, 11:30 am
Robin Hood wrote: September 25th, 2022, 10:19 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 25th, 2022, 8:19 am I ran across this story on FB this morning. She was abused as a child and reported/confided this information to 17 different church leaders in private. When she went public the area authority did some very heinous acts. Unfortunately this pattern of abusing the abused is not an anomaly. Wake up people. The church is full of wolves.

Marybeth Long

FB 9.24.2022 (This is her post from yesterday)
——
Four years ago today, in the midst of recovering from surgery, I received a letter from the LDS Church in regards to going public about my childhood abuse. It started me on a path I never could have predicted at the time. In some ways it broke me . . . meeting vile humans who betray, take advantage, manipulate, prey on the vulnerable, and promise one thing and deliver nothing. However, when I can catch a glimpse the bigger picture, sharing my story is the best thing I have ever done. It has given me a voice and a lot of courage, brought understanding and closeness to my siblings, and I have been blessed with new friends and new grand adventures.

Would I start the path again despite the cost? I think so. There is still such a need for awareness, such a need to help children of every religion and every organization find safety, such a need to call out the bogus belief that it "only happens to other kids” or “it happens so rarely.” If the last four years have taught me anything . . . every child can be a victim . . . and every child deserves to be safe . . . and it happens more than we want to believe. And that is why I will never regret starting the journey.


FB 10.17.2019 (This is her post from three years ago)
———
Not a lot of my thoughts rise to the level of Facebook-post worthy. I have extremely strict criteria: snide remarks about my day, snide remarks about the Cougar Football team, or snide remarks about Utah’s ever evolving winter. I don’t take myself or Facebook very seriously.

Last year my life changed. I have needed . . . and wanted . . . to share a piece of this chapter with each of you. So bear with me . . .

I was sexually abused as a child by a member of my Church. I never forgot; never repressed it. I told my bishop at 7 and a therapist at 16. Both failed to report. Last year I confided in my 17th Church leader about the shame and guilt and self-hatred I carry and my struggle with God.

The result of sharing my story again last year created a series of events too complicated for this post. But in September 2018, I received a letter from Salt Lake City signed by my Area Authority: if I speak out about my abuse to an attorney or the press, a disciplinary court could be warranted for my apostate behavior. I was caught off guard and deeply hurt because I never even suggested such a thing.

In the ensuing 13 months, I have found my story is not all that unique. I have met many victims who share similar experiences. Any attempt to seek help or speak up is met with shame and silencing. Most victims are leaving the Church. We have an epidemic hidden in the shadows and swept under the carpet. Sexual abuse victims are being silenced by money, shame, guilt, and threats. The press is being threatened and won’t touch the stories.

I would have never believed it if I hadn’t lived it. When I opted to go public in August with an amazing reporter at a local news affiliate, my bishop and stake president were contacted by Church authorities and my private priest/penitent confessions were shared to discredit me. The Church shared my confessions - as tame as they are - with the press . . . breaking so many laws and breaking my heart. I felt so betrayed.

My story is not anti-Mormon; that has never been my desire or intent. But it IS a call for awareness. A call for change. A call for a change of policy that puts abuse victims first and foremost in every Church and every organization. A call that we can - we must - be better at protecting our children.

A special thanks to the new undercover heroes I met this year. So many of you are among them. I have been so supported by family and friends as I have found my voice and my confidence . . . and a little more courage every day. Thank you for your love and support.
Lots of words but no detail; or certainly not enough for us to make anything of this story.
I am confused by your thought process. Maybe she's lying. But what if she isn't? What if she can produce the letter? Do you just ignore anyone who says something you don't like or can't understand?
I know you didn’t ask me, but I’ll just say that I firmly believe in the principle of innocent until proven guilty, and nothing in her story comes even close to meeting a burden of proof.

One of the scourges of our day is people’s belief that they MUST have an opinion on EVERYTHING, no matter how ignorant they are regarding a subject.
I'm not jumping up and down exclaiming that what she said is true or not. But what she has shared is damning, if only because of the church response to her claim of abuse.

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Re: Another report of the church abusing the abused.

Post by LDS Watchman »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 26th, 2022, 8:45 pm
endlessismyname wrote: September 26th, 2022, 7:31 pm
Atrasado wrote: September 25th, 2022, 11:30 am
Robin Hood wrote: September 25th, 2022, 10:19 am

Lots of words but no detail; or certainly not enough for us to make anything of this story.
I am confused by your thought process. Maybe she's lying. But what if she isn't? What if she can produce the letter? Do you just ignore anyone who says something you don't like or can't understand?
I know you didn’t ask me, but I’ll just say that I firmly believe in the principle of innocent until proven guilty, and nothing in her story comes even close to meeting a burden of proof.

One of the scourges of our day is people’s belief that they MUST have an opinion on EVERYTHING, no matter how ignorant they are regarding a subject.
I'm not jumping up and down exclaiming that what she said is true or not. But what she has shared is damning, if only because of the church response to her claim of abuse.
This is double speak.

By declaring her story "damning," you are obviously claiming that her story about how the church responded is true, even though she hasn't provided a shred of evidence to back it up.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Another report of the church abusing the abused.

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

I’m sure that was very profound, whatever you said.

LDS Watchman
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Re: Another report of the church abusing the abused.

Post by LDS Watchman »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 26th, 2022, 9:25 pm I’m sure that was very profound, whatever you said.
Just calling a spade a spade.

But I do find it interesting that you always feel the need to virtue signal that you are ignoring me.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Another report of the church abusing the abused.

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

SMH…

LDS Watchman
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Re: Another report of the church abusing the abused.

Post by LDS Watchman »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 26th, 2022, 9:35 pm SMH…
There it is again ;)

Atrasado
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Posts: 416

Re: Another report of the church abusing the abused.

Post by Atrasado »

endlessismyname wrote: September 26th, 2022, 7:31 pm
Atrasado wrote: September 25th, 2022, 11:30 am
Robin Hood wrote: September 25th, 2022, 10:19 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 25th, 2022, 8:19 am I ran across this story on FB this morning. She was abused as a child and reported/confided this information to 17 different church leaders in private. When she went public the area authority did some very heinous acts. Unfortunately this pattern of abusing the abused is not an anomaly. Wake up people. The church is full of wolves.

Marybeth Long

FB 9.24.2022 (This is her post from yesterday)
——
Four years ago today, in the midst of recovering from surgery, I received a letter from the LDS Church in regards to going public about my childhood abuse. It started me on a path I never could have predicted at the time. In some ways it broke me . . . meeting vile humans who betray, take advantage, manipulate, prey on the vulnerable, and promise one thing and deliver nothing. However, when I can catch a glimpse the bigger picture, sharing my story is the best thing I have ever done. It has given me a voice and a lot of courage, brought understanding and closeness to my siblings, and I have been blessed with new friends and new grand adventures.

Would I start the path again despite the cost? I think so. There is still such a need for awareness, such a need to help children of every religion and every organization find safety, such a need to call out the bogus belief that it "only happens to other kids” or “it happens so rarely.” If the last four years have taught me anything . . . every child can be a victim . . . and every child deserves to be safe . . . and it happens more than we want to believe. And that is why I will never regret starting the journey.


FB 10.17.2019 (This is her post from three years ago)
———
Not a lot of my thoughts rise to the level of Facebook-post worthy. I have extremely strict criteria: snide remarks about my day, snide remarks about the Cougar Football team, or snide remarks about Utah’s ever evolving winter. I don’t take myself or Facebook very seriously.

Last year my life changed. I have needed . . . and wanted . . . to share a piece of this chapter with each of you. So bear with me . . .

I was sexually abused as a child by a member of my Church. I never forgot; never repressed it. I told my bishop at 7 and a therapist at 16. Both failed to report. Last year I confided in my 17th Church leader about the shame and guilt and self-hatred I carry and my struggle with God.

The result of sharing my story again last year created a series of events too complicated for this post. But in September 2018, I received a letter from Salt Lake City signed by my Area Authority: if I speak out about my abuse to an attorney or the press, a disciplinary court could be warranted for my apostate behavior. I was caught off guard and deeply hurt because I never even suggested such a thing.

In the ensuing 13 months, I have found my story is not all that unique. I have met many victims who share similar experiences. Any attempt to seek help or speak up is met with shame and silencing. Most victims are leaving the Church. We have an epidemic hidden in the shadows and swept under the carpet. Sexual abuse victims are being silenced by money, shame, guilt, and threats. The press is being threatened and won’t touch the stories.

I would have never believed it if I hadn’t lived it. When I opted to go public in August with an amazing reporter at a local news affiliate, my bishop and stake president were contacted by Church authorities and my private priest/penitent confessions were shared to discredit me. The Church shared my confessions - as tame as they are - with the press . . . breaking so many laws and breaking my heart. I felt so betrayed.

My story is not anti-Mormon; that has never been my desire or intent. But it IS a call for awareness. A call for change. A call for a change of policy that puts abuse victims first and foremost in every Church and every organization. A call that we can - we must - be better at protecting our children.

A special thanks to the new undercover heroes I met this year. So many of you are among them. I have been so supported by family and friends as I have found my voice and my confidence . . . and a little more courage every day. Thank you for your love and support.
Lots of words but no detail; or certainly not enough for us to make anything of this story.
I am confused by your thought process. Maybe she's lying. But what if she isn't? What if she can produce the letter? Do you just ignore anyone who says something you don't like or can't understand?
I know you didn’t ask me, but I’ll just say that I firmly believe in the principle of innocent until proven guilty, and nothing in her story comes even close to meeting a burden of proof.

One of the scourges of our day is people’s belief that they MUST have an opinion on EVERYTHING, no matter how ignorant they are regarding a subject.
So what makes you an expert on what I know? Aren't you pushing an ignorant opinion based on your assumptions about someone you've never met?

I've done a fair amount of research on child sexual abuse in the Church and I've seen cases that are close to my family so I don't thing I'm entirely ignorant on this situation. That's why I believe this woman's testimony fits a pattern. That doesn't mean it's true, but it's crazy how often the accusers are telling the truth.

The principle of innocent until proven guilty is an American legal principle to be used in the courtroom. If we used it in our everyday lives we would truly be fools, for we must judge things with limited information, at least on a preliminary basis. Otherwise, we will fall for every simple trick of the cabal.

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Robin Hood
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Re: Another report of the church abusing the abused.

Post by Robin Hood »

Atrasado wrote: September 26th, 2022, 9:53 am
Robin Hood wrote: September 25th, 2022, 3:45 pm
Atrasado wrote: September 25th, 2022, 2:56 pm
Robin Hood wrote: September 25th, 2022, 1:07 pm

Maybe she can... but she hasn't.
I just set my bar a little higher than hearsay. Call me old fashioned, but I tend to prefer evidence.
Hearsay is s legal term that indicates someone is not personally involved but merely told of something. Hearsay is typically not admissible evidence in criminal proceedings.

When someone who was personally involved, as this woman was, in the events in question what they say is termed testimony and it is admissible in court.

I'm inclined to believe this woman's testimony because it fits with the pattern of many, many prior Church actions.
She is apparently claiming a third party, in this case a church representative, communicated information to her. However, she has produced no evidence to support the details of the communication she claims occured.
Therefore, it is hearsay at this stage.
Parties involved in communications aren't third parties to those communications. Since the letter was sent to her and she read it, she is still a witness to the letter so her reporting it isn't hearsay, it's testimony.

Also, there's a picture of some of it for you to look at if you want. It looks like I would expect it to, and it sure has the sound of an official priesthood communication. What is so unbelievable about it?
She is one party, we are another party, so the source is the third party. It is entirely proper to refer to the letter writer as the third party in this context.
The fact that most of the "letter" is obscured is suspicious to me.

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Niemand
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Re: Another report of the church abusing the abused.

Post by Niemand »

This kind of thing does go on, but accusations do need some proof... if you don't think that's the case, then imagine yourself being falsely accused by someone.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Another report of the church abusing the abused.

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Robin Hood wrote: September 27th, 2022, 12:08 am
The fact that most of the "letter" is obscured is suspicious to me.
It's a photo collage... it's not like she's presenting her case in court.

I'm curious to see if she finishes her book and/or her documentary video.

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Robin Hood
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Re: Another report of the church abusing the abused.

Post by Robin Hood »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 27th, 2022, 6:05 am
Robin Hood wrote: September 27th, 2022, 12:08 am
The fact that most of the "letter" is obscured is suspicious to me.
It's a photo collage... it's not like she's presenting her case in court.

I'm curious to see if she finishes her book and/or her documentary video.
So am I.
I suspect the truth is nowhere near as agregious as is being presented. After all, she's got a book to sell.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Another report of the church abusing the abused.

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Robin Hood wrote: September 27th, 2022, 6:14 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: September 27th, 2022, 6:05 am
Robin Hood wrote: September 27th, 2022, 12:08 am
The fact that most of the "letter" is obscured is suspicious to me.
It's a photo collage... it's not like she's presenting her case in court.

I'm curious to see if she finishes her book and/or her documentary video.
So am I.
I suspect the truth is nowhere near as agregious as is being presented. After all, she's got a book to sell.
Or it could be worse.

If you want to talk about books to sell, you can start by pointing the finger at your PSRs.

Atrasado
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Posts: 416

Re: Another report of the church abusing the abused.

Post by Atrasado »

Robin Hood wrote: September 27th, 2022, 12:08 am
Atrasado wrote: September 26th, 2022, 9:53 am
Robin Hood wrote: September 25th, 2022, 3:45 pm
Atrasado wrote: September 25th, 2022, 2:56 pm
Hearsay is s legal term that indicates someone is not personally involved but merely told of something. Hearsay is typically not admissible evidence in criminal proceedings.

When someone who was personally involved, as this woman was, in the events in question what they say is termed testimony and it is admissible in court.

I'm inclined to believe this woman's testimony because it fits with the pattern of many, many prior Church actions.
She is apparently claiming a third party, in this case a church representative, communicated information to her. However, she has produced no evidence to support the details of the communication she claims occured.
Therefore, it is hearsay at this stage.
Parties involved in communications aren't third parties to those communications. Since the letter was sent to her and she read it, she is still a witness to the letter so her reporting it isn't hearsay, it's testimony.

Also, there's a picture of some of it for you to look at if you want. It looks like I would expect it to, and it sure has the sound of an official priesthood communication. What is so unbelievable about it?
She is one party, we are another party, so the source is the third party. It is entirely proper to refer to the letter writer as the third party in this context.
The fact that most of the "letter" is obscured is suspicious to me.
We aren't a party to the communications between her and the Church, they are the two parties involved. So when she reports on communication between her and the Church it isn't hearsay because she's reporting on something to which she was a witness. It doesn't mean what she says is true, it just means that her testimony can't legitimately be discredited as hearsay.

Niyr
captain of 100
Posts: 391

Re: Another report of the church abusing the abused.

Post by Niyr »

Atrasado wrote: September 27th, 2022, 8:58 am
Robin Hood wrote: September 27th, 2022, 12:08 am
Atrasado wrote: September 26th, 2022, 9:53 am
Robin Hood wrote: September 25th, 2022, 3:45 pm

She is apparently claiming a third party, in this case a church representative, communicated information to her. However, she has produced no evidence to support the details of the communication she claims occured.
Therefore, it is hearsay at this stage.
Parties involved in communications aren't third parties to those communications. Since the letter was sent to her and she read it, she is still a witness to the letter so her reporting it isn't hearsay, it's testimony.

Also, there's a picture of some of it for you to look at if you want. It looks like I would expect it to, and it sure has the sound of an official priesthood communication. What is so unbelievable about it?
She is one party, we are another party, so the source is the third party. It is entirely proper to refer to the letter writer as the third party in this context.
The fact that most of the "letter" is obscured is suspicious to me.
We aren't a party to the communications between her and the Church, they are the two parties involved. So when she reports on communication between her and the Church it isn't hearsay because she's reporting on something to which she was a witness. It doesn't mean what she says is true, it just means that her testimony can't legitimately be discredited as hearsay.
hearsay - information received from other people that one cannot adequately substantiate; rumor.

This qualifies. We, the public, as she has publicly made a claim, cannot adequately substantiate her claims.

endlessismyname
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2076

Re: Another report of the church abusing the abused.

Post by endlessismyname »

Atrasado wrote: September 26th, 2022, 11:27 pm
endlessismyname wrote: September 26th, 2022, 7:31 pm
Atrasado wrote: September 25th, 2022, 11:30 am
Robin Hood wrote: September 25th, 2022, 10:19 am

Lots of words but no detail; or certainly not enough for us to make anything of this story.
I am confused by your thought process. Maybe she's lying. But what if she isn't? What if she can produce the letter? Do you just ignore anyone who says something you don't like or can't understand?
I know you didn’t ask me, but I’ll just say that I firmly believe in the principle of innocent until proven guilty, and nothing in her story comes even close to meeting a burden of proof.

One of the scourges of our day is people’s belief that they MUST have an opinion on EVERYTHING, no matter how ignorant they are regarding a subject.
So what makes you an expert on what I know? Aren't you pushing an ignorant opinion based on your assumptions about someone you've never met?

I've done a fair amount of research on child sexual abuse in the Church and I've seen cases that are close to my family so I don't thing I'm entirely ignorant on this situation. That's why I believe this woman's testimony fits a pattern. That doesn't mean it's true, but it's crazy how often the accusers are telling the truth.

The principle of innocent until proven guilty is an American legal principle to be used in the courtroom. If we used it in our everyday lives we would truly be fools, for we must judge things with limited information, at least on a preliminary basis. Otherwise, we will fall for every simple trick of the cabal.
I sincerely hope you never have to deal with a person who holds your point of view that decides to make claims such as these against you. I’ve watched lives be destroyed in front of my eyes over false claims, generations of hopes and dreams stomped on and shattered by communities that don’t reserve judgement until sufficient proof is available to judge soundly.

Innocent until proven guilty is not just a principle for the American legal system. It is an eternal Christian principle that our Master would have us follow.

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