Morning Stars

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Pazooka
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Morning Stars

Post by Pazooka »

Just like with the law of sacrifice and offerings, we tend to see anything and everything as pointing to Christ...even the goat that represents Satan that was sent over the cliff on the Day of Atonement. Oof.

How many times have you hear that the Morning Star is a name for Christ? Even the secret combinations know more about this than we do. (Hello, Order of the Eastern Star)

A morning star is seen in the east before the rising of the sun. Let that percolate for a sec. A morning star precedes and gives rise to the sun (the Son)

Morning stars are MOTHERS

When Jesus gives his credentials in Revelation he declares that he is the offspring of the “bright and morning star” - or in other words he is the offspring of the “bright star” and the “morning star.”

Bright star = Sirius (brightest star in the sky), which was equated anciently with the Queen of Heaven
Morning star = usually Venus, which was equated with Mary

Jesus was born of both the Mother in Heaven (spirit) and of Mary (body)

Stupid Deuteronomists and later scribes have to go and confuddle everything. Fathers of false traditions.

Where were you when the morning stars sang together AND the sons of God shouted for joy? Female and male. (Job 38)

The Images of Mary in the Litany of Loreto by Margaret Barker has the following:
The Son of God was ‘born’ in the holy of holies, as we have seen implied in the Protevangelium, and as is described in Psalm 110. The Hebrew of the psalm, however, is damaged beyond any certain reconstruction. The crucial but unreadable verse 3 mentions begetting, a womb, dew, and a morning star, ‘Shahar’, a name known from Ugaritic texts as a title of the crown prince.60 The line is translated: ‘From the womb of the morning like dew your youth will come to you’ (Revised Standard Version), or ‘From the womb of the morning thou hast the dew of thy youth’ (Authorised Version).

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Niemand
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Re: Morning Stars

Post by Niemand »

The Morning Star is also a name for Satan.

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Pazooka
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Re: Morning Stars

Post by Pazooka »

Niemand wrote: September 25th, 2022, 2:25 pm The Morning Star is also a name for Satan.
Remind me how we know that.

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Pazooka
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Re: Morning Stars

Post by Pazooka »

Niemand wrote: September 25th, 2022, 2:25 pm The Morning Star is also a name for Satan.
Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

It’s calling him, literally, “O shining one, son of the dawn”

This is resurrection language. LDSs don’t view Lucifer as having been a resurrected being. But the clues are all there.

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Niemand
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Re: Morning Stars

Post by Niemand »

Pazooka wrote: September 25th, 2022, 3:40 pm
Niemand wrote: September 25th, 2022, 2:25 pm The Morning Star is also a name for Satan.
Remind me how we know that.
One of the symbols of Venus is the pentagram which has become linked with Satan especially in its inverted form. The Pentagram is based partly on the pattern Venus forms in our sky.

The reference in Isaiah to the Morning Star refers to how Venus can hang just above the horizon. Asit gets lighter in the morning, the Morning Star (Venus) is often the brightest thing left in the sky other than the Moon. But when the Sun rises, Venus completely disappears in the light of day.

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abijah
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Heyleł`ben`Shachar 🌄 🌟

Post by abijah »

i likewise see a connection between morningstars and heavenly`feminity.

i probly talk about this one verse more than any other on ldsff, but note ---->
  • Your people will offer themselves freely on the day of your power, in holy garments.

    From the womb of the morning, the dew of your youth will be yours.
it isnt mere arbitrary chance that "womb of the morning" seems to fall parallel along with "son of the morning". i mean, what are wombs even for...? producing sons.
abijah` wrote: February 15th, 2021, 11:36 amIsaiah 14:12 LXX
How has the Daystar, that rose in the morning, fallen from heaven! He that sent orders to all the nations is crushed to the earth.

πῶς ἐξέπεσεν ἐκ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ ὁ ἑωσφόρος ὁ πρωὶ ἀνατέλλων συνετρίβη εἰς τὴν γῆν ὁ ἀποστέλλων πρὸς πάντα τὰ ἔθνη

The Greek word there is Heosphorus or "the Dawnbringer"

Interesting where else it gets used...

Psalm 110:3 LXX
Rule is yours on the day of your power
Among the splendor of the holy ones.
From the womb, before the morning star (ἑωσφόρος), I brought you forth.

Interesting how in this instance it gets used in the feminine sense ("I am your brother..."), as I've pointed out the similarity of "womb of the morning" and "son of the morning" before. Lucifer isnt the only one associated with Venus, perhaps even more prominently its a goddess....
it's connections like these that make me seriously meditate on stuff like what peeps has said about lucifer being the "(drag) queen of heaven..
Spoiler
Image
Peeps wrote: December 19th, 2021, 9:34 pmBecause Lucifer, the baphomet, is the Heavenly muther, the drag-Queen of Heaven.
Last edited by abijah on September 25th, 2022, 6:35 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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abijah
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masquerade 🎭

Post by abijah »

Pazooka wrote: September 25th, 2022, 3:40 pmRemind me how we know that.
the main connection is Isaiah 14, where the prophet is primarily addressing Nebuchadnezzar, ruler of the upstart neo-babylonian empire.
Spoiler
original Babel/Babylon (Nimrod) -----> super old, way back

New Babylon (Nebuchadnezzar) -----> only like ~7-6th century BC (the one that lehi prophesied would destroy jerusalem)
"shining" is a connection that goes all the way back to Genesis`3🐍, since the term "nahash" also contains that element of shining/luminescence :arrow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72T2bW8 ... tu.be&t=81

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Pazooka
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Re: Heyleł`ben`Shachar 🌄 🌟

Post by Pazooka »

abijah wrote: September 25th, 2022, 6:11 pm i likewise see a connection between morningstars and heavenly`feminity.

i probly talk about this one verse more than any other on ldsff, but note ---->
  • Your people will offer themselves freely on the day of your power, in holy garments.

    From the womb of the morning, the dew of your youth will be yours.
it isnt mere arbitrary chance that "womb of the morning" seems to fall parallel along with "son of the morning". i mean, what are wombs even for...? producing sons.
abijah` wrote: February 15th, 2021, 11:36 amIsaiah 14:12 LXX
How has the Daystar, that rose in the morning, fallen from heaven! He that sent orders to all the nations is crushed to the earth.

πῶς ἐξέπεσεν ἐκ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ ὁ ἑωσφόρος ὁ πρωὶ ἀνατέλλων συνετρίβη εἰς τὴν γῆν ὁ ἀποστέλλων πρὸς πάντα τὰ ἔθνη

The Greek word there is Heosphorus or "the Dawnbringer"

Interesting where else it gets used...

Psalm 110:3 LXX
Rule is yours on the day of your power
Among the splendor of the holy ones.
From the womb, before the morning star (ἑωσφόρος), I brought you forth.

Interesting how in this instance it gets used in the feminine sense ("I am your brother..."), as I've pointed out the similarity of "womb of the morning" and "son of the morning" before. Lucifer isnt the only one associated with Venus, perhaps even more prominently its a goddess....
it's connections like these that make me seriously meditate on stuff like what peeps has said about lucifer being the "(drag) queen of heaven..
Spoiler
Image
Peeps wrote: December 19th, 2021, 9:34 pmBecause Lucifer, the baphomet, is the Heavenly muther, the drag-Queen of Heaven.
Yes, I absolutely think he’s the “drag-Queen.” But I wonder if the baphomet isn’t a knock-off of a righteous divine male/female unity. I honestly don’t know but I wonder. For instance, if Adam and Eve were resurrected, glorified beings in the Garden before they fell and Eve was “taken from Adam’s rib” - I wonder if that isn’t just a way of conceptualizing the divine unity being separated out of oneness for the purposes of creation - like the polarizing of negative and positive charges being utilized to produce energy or something like that. Dry land was created when the waters were separated out of it. Was man created when woman was separated out of him? So, then, is the baphomet uncreated man or a counterfeit of glorified, unified man?

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Pazooka
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Re: Morning Stars

Post by Pazooka »

Niemand wrote: September 25th, 2022, 4:26 pm One of the symbols of Venus is the pentagram which has become linked with Satan especially in its inverted form. The Pentagram is based partly on the pattern Venus forms in our sky.
It isn’t as cut and dry as (pentagram = Venus = Satan) just like there is no (rainbow = covenant = sexual deviance)
The reference in Isaiah to the Morning Star refers to how Venus can hang just above the horizon. Asit gets lighter in the morning, the Morning Star (Venus) is often the brightest thing left in the sky other than the Moon. But when the Sun rises, Venus completely disappears in the light of day.
Merely assumption. What does it actually say?
How you have fallen from heaven, O shining one, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the ground, O destroyer of nations.

Edit to add: maybe we don’t understand the significance of why he was described as “shining” or how or what it means to be a “son of the dawn.” Like I said, these are both indicators of glory and rebirth/resurrection

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abijah
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🐲🗡😴

Post by abijah »

Pazooka wrote: September 25th, 2022, 6:47 pm Yes, I absolutely think he’s the “drag-Queen.”
It's only recently ive gotten something of a grasp of the concept that is "drag"/drag culture.

its the gender equivalent of minstrel shows. it's literally gay men making fun of being feminine, mocking/parodying womanhood itself.

maybe this is because (unlike Adam) they have no rib from which a woman can even be produced, perhaps..? 🤔
you have been weighed and found wanting
abijah` wrote: October 7th, 2021, 8:28 pmI've wondered if it was Lucifer sacrificing / murdering what was intended to become his helpmeet, his Eve - and that maybe this is what rendered him ineligible to be the Messiah and/or receive a body? And why God establishes eternal enmity between him and the "woman"?

Ezekiel 28
Your heart was proud because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor..

^Seems to have genesis 3 language, including "wisdom" (what the fruit of knowledge gives you), "feast your eyes" (eating the fruit, which is "pleasing to the eyes" and "opens the eyes". ^Seems to be helpmeet language.

Elsewhere in scripture "Wisdom" is portrayed as a Woman.

So Lucifer "corrupted" his "wisdom"? Corrupted his helpmeet?

There are certain aspects of this that would seem to connect some dots. Such as why there may not be any daughters of perdition, and why sons of perdition have their association with buggery?

Is this why all the scriptures pair together the watchers+daughters-of-men situation with the male dogs of Sodom, as being two expressions of the same thing?

Did Lucifer slay / sacrifice his inner-Eve, trading his birthright for a mess of pottage, exchanging the truth of God for a lie?

Is this somehow similar to Odin sacrificing himself to himself on the World Tree?
A hundred days and a hundred nights he labored on the third blade, and as it glowed white-hot in the sacred fires, he summoned his wife. ‘Nissa Nissa,’ he said to her, for that was her name, ‘bare your breast, and know that I love you best of all that is in this world.’ She did this thing, why I cannot say, and Azor Ahai thrust the smoking sword through her living heart. It is said that her cry of anguish and ecstasy left a crack across the face of the moon, but her blood and her soul and her strength and her courage all went into the steel. Such is the tale of the forging of Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes.
Pazooka wrote: September 25th, 2022, 6:47 pmBut I wonder if the baphomet isn’t a knock-off of a righteous divine male/female unity.
ive wondered the same --->
Spoiler
abijah` wrote: November 29th, 2021, 12:30 pm I think we will experience full Marriage, on MULTIPLE levels, as in, we will have our own spouses, whilst simultaneously experiencing what it means to be married, as a corporate, covenant-bound community, to.... Christ.

we will have our spouse... and We will have our Spouse.

As I said before, it all stacks.

Makes me wonder if the hermaphroditism of Baphomet is simply a cringe copycat of Adam, who is the Man of his wife, and the (metaphorical) Woman of his God. The patriarchal pattern being that God's relationship with Man, is as Man's with his woman. 🤔
Pazooka wrote: September 25th, 2022, 6:47 pmI honestly don’t know but I wonder. For instance, if Adam and Eve were resurrected, glorified beings in the Garden before they fell
right, im aware the typical Adam-God construct kind of needs this to be case seemingly, but i don't think they were resurrected beings. imo the narrative is pretty clear in demarcating a very real *distinction* between unopened-eyed Adam&eve, and "the elohim", whom the serpent says they will "become like" by eating a certain fruit...
Pazooka wrote: September 25th, 2022, 6:47 pmand Eve was “taken from Adam’s rib” - I wonder if that isn’t just a way of conceptualizing the divine unity being separated out of oneness for the purposes of creation - like the polarizing of negative and positive charges being utilized to produce energy or something like that. Dry land was created when the waters were separated out of it. Was man created when woman was separated out of him? So, then, is the baphomet uncreated man or a counterfeit of glorified, unified man?
absolutely brilliant! 😀

am i safe assuming you're aware of the oft-quoted "davidic servant" scripture in isaiah 51?

pls humour and bear with me, but i think it's extremely relevant to what you're saying, and the creation of Eve out of Adam's rib ----->
  • Isaiah 51
    9 Awake, awake, clothe yourself with strength, O arm of the Lord; awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old. Art thou not it that hath cut Rahab, and wounded the dragon?
    10 Art thou not it which hath dried the sea, the waters of the great deep; that hath made the depths of the sea a way for the ransomed to pass over?
"but abijah what does this possibly have to do with adam and eve?", Well let me pull up that scripture (this has to do with why i think Adam/Michael = the Davidic Servant..) ---->
  • Genesis 2
    20 ..but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
    21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof
Who is Isaiah trying to shake awake? ⏰
  • Isa`51
    Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the LORD; awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old..
"whatever abijah, because isaiah says 'wake up' doesn't mean he's referring to Adam, that's super tenuous at best", Well hold on im not done, he also says to get dressed ---->
  • Isa51
    Awake, awake, clothe yourself with strength, O arm of the LORD; awake, as in the ancient days...
Isaiah is saying "get up and get dressed", which is pretty relevant in Genesis..
  • Genesis 2-3
    And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed...
    ...And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
"ok abijah but I'm still unconvinced"
Image

🤔 What is the context isaiah is talking about in ch 51 verse 9 again?
Image
  • Isa51
    ...awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old. Art thou not it that hath cut Rahab, and wounded the dragon?
^that "cutting" 🔪✂️ is related to eve being taken/separated from Adam's side/"tsela".

It's talking about bifurcation, splitting something in twain.

In isaiah 51, the arm of JHWH bifurcates Rahab...

the key (i think) = Genesis 15!!
  • Genesis 15
    And Abram said, Lord God, whereby shall I know that I shall inherit it?
    And he said unto him, Take me an heifer of three years old, and a she goat of three years old, and a ram of three years old, and a turtledove, and a young pigeon.
    And he took unto him all these, and divided them in the midst, and laid each piece one against another: but the birds divided he not...
    And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him.
Pazooka wrote: September 25th, 2022, 6:47 pmand Eve was “taken from Adam’s rib” - I wonder if that isn’t just a way of conceptualizing the divine unity being separated out of oneness for the purposes of creation - like the polarizing of negative and positive charges being utilized to produce energy or something like that....
Was man created when woman was separated out of him?
Well, in terms of 'divine bifurcation of oneness', i find it meaningful that there are literary hyperlinks to Isa51 (DS bifurcates Rahab), and Gen15 (Abram bifurcates sacrificial animals).

Moreover all 3 (Adam in Gen2, Abram in Gen15, and DS in Isa51) fall into a deep sleep.. 🤔
Pazooka wrote: September 25th, 2022, 6:47 pmDry land was created when the waters were separated out of it.
It's all related. That's the precise context isaiah is speaking in:
  • Isaiah 51
    9 Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the Lord; awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old. Art thou not it that hath cut Rahab, and wounded the dragon?
    10 Art thou not it which hath dried the sea, the waters of the great deep; that hath made the depths of the sea a way for the ransomed to pass over?
Pazooka wrote: September 25th, 2022, 6:47 pmSo, then, is the baphomet uncreated man or a counterfeit of glorified, unified man?
im not sure. it's a mystery I've been mulling over and ruminating on.

CuriousThinker
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Re: Morning Stars

Post by CuriousThinker »

O morning stars, together
Proclaim the Holy birth
And praises sing to God the King
And peace to men on earth

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Kingdom of ZION
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Re: Morning Stars

Post by Kingdom of ZION »

Sons of the Morning are members of the Church of the Firstborn, whom were born in the Morning of the First Resurrection, and are the Morning Stars. The First Resurrection is not the highest or true resurrection, for many will lay down their body at the end of time here, attempting to go further down the Path in the hopes of a more glorious resurrection. Most will not obtain such but there is nothing for them short of walking this Path, to prove unto themselves whether they are able and worthy.

When the Day Star comes, all mountains will be made low, and all valleys shall be exalted, and every eye shall see the author of their Salvation. In that moment shalt the Sons of the Morning come forth. Hosanna, Hosanna, Hosanna, unto our G_d and King.

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Pazooka
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Re: 🐲🗡😴

Post by Pazooka »

abijah wrote: September 25th, 2022, 10:22 pm
Pazooka wrote: September 25th, 2022, 6:47 pm Yes, I absolutely think he’s the “drag-Queen.”
It's only recently ive gotten something of a grasp of the concept that is "drag"/drag culture.

its the gender equivalent of minstrel shows. it's literally gay men making fun of being feminine, mocking/parodying womanhood itself.

maybe this is because (unlike Adam) they have no rib from which a woman can even be produced, perhaps..? 🤔
you have been weighed and found wanting
abijah` wrote: October 7th, 2021, 8:28 pmI've wondered if it was Lucifer sacrificing / murdering what was intended to become his helpmeet, his Eve - and that maybe this is what rendered him ineligible to be the Messiah and/or receive a body? And why God establishes eternal enmity between him and the "woman"?

Ezekiel 28
Your heart was proud because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor..

^Seems to have genesis 3 language, including "wisdom" (what the fruit of knowledge gives you), "feast your eyes" (eating the fruit, which is "pleasing to the eyes" and "opens the eyes". ^Seems to be helpmeet language.

Elsewhere in scripture "Wisdom" is portrayed as a Woman.

So Lucifer "corrupted" his "wisdom"? Corrupted his helpmeet?

There are certain aspects of this that would seem to connect some dots. Such as why there may not be any daughters of perdition, and why sons of perdition have their association with buggery?

Is this why all the scriptures pair together the watchers+daughters-of-men situation with the male dogs of Sodom, as being two expressions of the same thing?

Did Lucifer slay / sacrifice his inner-Eve, trading his birthright for a mess of pottage, exchanging the truth of God for a lie?

Is this somehow similar to Odin sacrificing himself to himself on the World Tree?
A hundred days and a hundred nights he labored on the third blade, and as it glowed white-hot in the sacred fires, he summoned his wife. ‘Nissa Nissa,’ he said to her, for that was her name, ‘bare your breast, and know that I love you best of all that is in this world.’ She did this thing, why I cannot say, and Azor Ahai thrust the smoking sword through her living heart. It is said that her cry of anguish and ecstasy left a crack across the face of the moon, but her blood and her soul and her strength and her courage all went into the steel. Such is the tale of the forging of Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes.
Pazooka wrote: September 25th, 2022, 6:47 pmBut I wonder if the baphomet isn’t a knock-off of a righteous divine male/female unity.
ive wondered the same --->
Spoiler
abijah` wrote: November 29th, 2021, 12:30 pm I think we will experience full Marriage, on MULTIPLE levels, as in, we will have our own spouses, whilst simultaneously experiencing what it means to be married, as a corporate, covenant-bound community, to.... Christ.

we will have our spouse... and We will have our Spouse.

As I said before, it all stacks.

Makes me wonder if the hermaphroditism of Baphomet is simply a cringe copycat of Adam, who is the Man of his wife, and the (metaphorical) Woman of his God. The patriarchal pattern being that God's relationship with Man, is as Man's with his woman. 🤔
Pazooka wrote: September 25th, 2022, 6:47 pmI honestly don’t know but I wonder. For instance, if Adam and Eve were resurrected, glorified beings in the Garden before they fell
right, im aware the typical Adam-God construct kind of needs this to be case seemingly, but i don't think they were resurrected beings. imo the narrative is pretty clear in demarcating a very real *distinction* between unopened-eyed Adam&eve, and "the elohim", whom the serpent says they will "become like" by eating a certain fruit...
Pazooka wrote: September 25th, 2022, 6:47 pmand Eve was “taken from Adam’s rib” - I wonder if that isn’t just a way of conceptualizing the divine unity being separated out of oneness for the purposes of creation - like the polarizing of negative and positive charges being utilized to produce energy or something like that. Dry land was created when the waters were separated out of it. Was man created when woman was separated out of him? So, then, is the baphomet uncreated man or a counterfeit of glorified, unified man?
absolutely brilliant! 😀

am i safe assuming you're aware of the oft-quoted "davidic servant" scripture in isaiah 51?

pls humour and bear with me, but i think it's extremely relevant to what you're saying, and the creation of Eve out of Adam's rib ----->
  • Isaiah 51
    9 Awake, awake, clothe yourself with strength, O arm of the Lord; awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old. Art thou not it that hath cut Rahab, and wounded the dragon?
    10 Art thou not it which hath dried the sea, the waters of the great deep; that hath made the depths of the sea a way for the ransomed to pass over?
"but abijah what does this possibly have to do with adam and eve?", Well let me pull up that scripture (this has to do with why i think Adam/Michael = the Davidic Servant..) ---->
  • Genesis 2
    20 ..but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
    21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof
Who is Isaiah trying to shake awake? ⏰
  • Isa`51
    Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the LORD; awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old..
"whatever abijah, because isaiah says 'wake up' doesn't mean he's referring to Adam, that's super tenuous at best", Well hold on im not done, he also says to get dressed ---->
  • Isa51
    Awake, awake, clothe yourself with strength, O arm of the LORD; awake, as in the ancient days...
Isaiah is saying "get up and get dressed", which is pretty relevant in Genesis..
  • Genesis 2-3
    And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed...
    ...And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
"ok abijah but I'm still unconvinced"
Image

🤔 What is the context isaiah is talking about in ch 51 verse 9 again?
Image
  • Isa51
    ...awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old. Art thou not it that hath cut Rahab, and wounded the dragon?
^that "cutting" 🔪✂️ is related to eve being taken/separated from Adam's side/"tsela".

It's talking about bifurcation, splitting something in twain.

In isaiah 51, the arm of JHWH bifurcates Rahab...

the key (i think) = Genesis 15!!
  • Genesis 15
    And Abram said, Lord God, whereby shall I know that I shall inherit it?
    And he said unto him, Take me an heifer of three years old, and a she goat of three years old, and a ram of three years old, and a turtledove, and a young pigeon.
    And he took unto him all these, and divided them in the midst, and laid each piece one against another: but the birds divided he not...
    And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him.
Pazooka wrote: September 25th, 2022, 6:47 pmand Eve was “taken from Adam’s rib” - I wonder if that isn’t just a way of conceptualizing the divine unity being separated out of oneness for the purposes of creation - like the polarizing of negative and positive charges being utilized to produce energy or something like that....
Was man created when woman was separated out of him?
Well, in terms of 'divine bifurcation of oneness', i find it meaningful that there are literary hyperlinks to Isa51 (DS bifurcates Rahab), and Gen15 (Abram bifurcates sacrificial animals).

Moreover all 3 (Adam in Gen2, Abram in Gen15, and DS in Isa51) fall into a deep sleep.. 🤔
Pazooka wrote: September 25th, 2022, 6:47 pmDry land was created when the waters were separated out of it.
It's all related. That's the precise context isaiah is speaking in:
  • Isaiah 51
    9 Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the Lord; awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old. Art thou not it that hath cut Rahab, and wounded the dragon?
    10 Art thou not it which hath dried the sea, the waters of the great deep; that hath made the depths of the sea a way for the ransomed to pass over?
Pazooka wrote: September 25th, 2022, 6:47 pmSo, then, is the baphomet uncreated man or a counterfeit of glorified, unified man?
im not sure. it's a mystery I've been mulling over and ruminating on.
I’ma gonna chew on that

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BuriedTartaria
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Re: Morning Stars

Post by BuriedTartaria »

Pazooka wrote: September 25th, 2022, 3:58 pm
Niemand wrote: September 25th, 2022, 2:25 pm The Morning Star is also a name for Satan.
This is resurrection language. LDSs don’t view Lucifer as having been a resurrected being. But the clues are all there.
Wow, so Lucifer may be a resurrected personage, having done who knows what amount of good and righteousness. And he fell. That just adds so much to the tragedy of his fall.

He's made a mess of this world. Christ pleads our case before the father. I wonder if Lucifer is pleading his own case before the father. Trying to show that he (Lucifer) was right, by showing how awful a world gets, how many cycles of prosperity to breakdown and depravity happen, when a different plan is chosen.

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Pazooka
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Re: Morning Stars

Post by Pazooka »

Kingdom of ZION wrote: September 26th, 2022, 12:31 am Sons of the Morning are members of the Church of the Firstborn, whom were born in the Morning of the First Resurrection, and are the Morning Stars. The First Resurrection is not the highest or true resurrection, for many will lay down their body at the end of time here, attempting to go further down the Path in the hopes of a more glorious resurrection. Most will not obtain such but there is nothing for them short of walking this Path, to prove unto themselves whether they are able and worthy.

When the Day Star comes, all mountains will be made low, and all valleys shall be exalted, and every eye shall see the author of their Salvation. In that moment shalt the Sons of the Morning come forth. Hosanna, Hosanna, Hosanna, unto our G_d and King.
What support do you have for “sons of the morning” necessarily belonging to the Church of the Firstborn, is what I’m curious about.

And what about the very old tradition of Mary as “Stella Matutina”?

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John Tavner
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Re: Morning Stars

Post by John Tavner »

Ishtar is also related to the Morning Star (Venus) in ancient cultures - interestingly enough she is also transgender/homosexual/a prostitute/and a warrior and into drunken revelry. She is one of the gods the Jews went after and she is celebrated and worshiped up until like 300 years after Christ as Aphrodite.

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Re: 🐲🗡😴

Post by Peeps »

abijah wrote: September 25th, 2022, 10:22 pm
Pazooka wrote: September 25th, 2022, 6:47 pm Yes, I absolutely think he’s the “drag-Queen.”
It's only recently ive gotten something of a grasp of the concept that is "drag"/drag culture.

its the gender equivalent of minstrel shows. it's literally gay men making fun of being feminine, mocking/parodying womanhood itself.

maybe this is because (unlike Adam) they have no rib from which a woman can even be produced, perhaps..? 🤔
you have been weighed and found wanting
abijah` wrote: October 7th, 2021, 8:28 pmI've wondered if it was Lucifer sacrificing / murdering what was intended to become his helpmeet, his Eve - and that maybe this is what rendered him ineligible to be the Messiah and/or receive a body? And why God establishes eternal enmity between him and the "woman"?

Ezekiel 28
Your heart was proud because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor..

^Seems to have genesis 3 language, including "wisdom" (what the fruit of knowledge gives you), "feast your eyes" (eating the fruit, which is "pleasing to the eyes" and "opens the eyes". ^Seems to be helpmeet language.

Elsewhere in scripture "Wisdom" is portrayed as a Woman.

So Lucifer "corrupted" his "wisdom"? Corrupted his helpmeet?

There are certain aspects of this that would seem to connect some dots. Such as why there may not be any daughters of perdition, and why sons of perdition have their association with buggery?

Is this why all the scriptures pair together the watchers+daughters-of-men situation with the male dogs of Sodom, as being two expressions of the same thing?

Did Lucifer slay / sacrifice his inner-Eve, trading his birthright for a mess of pottage, exchanging the truth of God for a lie?

Is this somehow similar to Odin sacrificing himself to himself on the World Tree?
A hundred days and a hundred nights he labored on the third blade, and as it glowed white-hot in the sacred fires, he summoned his wife. ‘Nissa Nissa,’ he said to her, for that was her name, ‘bare your breast, and know that I love you best of all that is in this world.’ She did this thing, why I cannot say, and Azor Ahai thrust the smoking sword through her living heart. It is said that her cry of anguish and ecstasy left a crack across the face of the moon, but her blood and her soul and her strength and her courage all went into the steel. Such is the tale of the forging of Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes.
Pazooka wrote: September 25th, 2022, 6:47 pmBut I wonder if the baphomet isn’t a knock-off of a righteous divine male/female unity.
ive wondered the same --->
Spoiler
abijah` wrote: November 29th, 2021, 12:30 pm I think we will experience full Marriage, on MULTIPLE levels, as in, we will have our own spouses, whilst simultaneously experiencing what it means to be married, as a corporate, covenant-bound community, to.... Christ.

we will have our spouse... and We will have our Spouse.

As I said before, it all stacks.

Makes me wonder if the hermaphroditism of Baphomet is simply a cringe copycat of Adam, who is the Man of his wife, and the (metaphorical) Woman of his God. The patriarchal pattern being that God's relationship with Man, is as Man's with his woman. 🤔
Pazooka wrote: September 25th, 2022, 6:47 pmI honestly don’t know but I wonder. For instance, if Adam and Eve were resurrected, glorified beings in the Garden before they fell
right, im aware the typical Adam-God construct kind of needs this to be case seemingly, but i don't think they were resurrected beings. imo the narrative is pretty clear in demarcating a very real *distinction* between unopened-eyed Adam&eve, and "the elohim", whom the serpent says they will "become like" by eating a certain fruit...
Pazooka wrote: September 25th, 2022, 6:47 pmand Eve was “taken from Adam’s rib” - I wonder if that isn’t just a way of conceptualizing the divine unity being separated out of oneness for the purposes of creation - like the polarizing of negative and positive charges being utilized to produce energy or something like that. Dry land was created when the waters were separated out of it. Was man created when woman was separated out of him? So, then, is the baphomet uncreated man or a counterfeit of glorified, unified man?
absolutely brilliant! 😀

am i safe assuming you're aware of the oft-quoted "davidic servant" scripture in isaiah 51?

pls humour and bear with me, but i think it's extremely relevant to what you're saying, and the creation of Eve out of Adam's rib ----->
  • Isaiah 51
    9 Awake, awake, clothe yourself with strength, O arm of the Lord; awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old. Art thou not it that hath cut Rahab, and wounded the dragon?
    10 Art thou not it which hath dried the sea, the waters of the great deep; that hath made the depths of the sea a way for the ransomed to pass over?
"but abijah what does this possibly have to do with adam and eve?", Well let me pull up that scripture (this has to do with why i think Adam/Michael = the Davidic Servant..) ---->
  • Genesis 2
    20 ..but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
    21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof
Who is Isaiah trying to shake awake? ⏰
  • Isa`51
    Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the LORD; awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old..
"whatever abijah, because isaiah says 'wake up' doesn't mean he's referring to Adam, that's super tenuous at best", Well hold on im not done, he also says to get dressed ---->
  • Isa51
    Awake, awake, clothe yourself with strength, O arm of the LORD; awake, as in the ancient days...
Isaiah is saying "get up and get dressed", which is pretty relevant in Genesis..
  • Genesis 2-3
    And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed...
    ...And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
"ok abijah but I'm still unconvinced"
Image

🤔 What is the context isaiah is talking about in ch 51 verse 9 again?
Image
  • Isa51
    ...awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old. Art thou not it that hath cut Rahab, and wounded the dragon?
^that "cutting" 🔪✂️ is related to eve being taken/separated from Adam's side/"tsela".

It's talking about bifurcation, splitting something in twain.

In isaiah 51, the arm of JHWH bifurcates Rahab...

the key (i think) = Genesis 15!!
  • Genesis 15
    And Abram said, Lord God, whereby shall I know that I shall inherit it?
    And he said unto him, Take me an heifer of three years old, and a she goat of three years old, and a ram of three years old, and a turtledove, and a young pigeon.
    And he took unto him all these, and divided them in the midst, and laid each piece one against another: but the birds divided he not...
    And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him.
Pazooka wrote: September 25th, 2022, 6:47 pmand Eve was “taken from Adam’s rib” - I wonder if that isn’t just a way of conceptualizing the divine unity being separated out of oneness for the purposes of creation - like the polarizing of negative and positive charges being utilized to produce energy or something like that....
Was man created when woman was separated out of him?
Well, in terms of 'divine bifurcation of oneness', i find it meaningful that there are literary hyperlinks to Isa51 (DS bifurcates Rahab), and Gen15 (Abram bifurcates sacrificial animals).

Moreover all 3 (Adam in Gen2, Abram in Gen15, and DS in Isa51) fall into a deep sleep.. 🤔
Pazooka wrote: September 25th, 2022, 6:47 pmDry land was created when the waters were separated out of it.
It's all related. That's the precise context isaiah is speaking in:
  • Isaiah 51
    9 Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the Lord; awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old. Art thou not it that hath cut Rahab, and wounded the dragon?
    10 Art thou not it which hath dried the sea, the waters of the great deep; that hath made the depths of the sea a way for the ransomed to pass over?
Pazooka wrote: September 25th, 2022, 6:47 pmSo, then, is the baphomet uncreated man or a counterfeit of glorified, unified man?
im not sure. it's a mystery I've been mulling over and ruminating on.
I have also been mulling over and ruminating on some things, some things you have sparked, like the those things written in the Pearl of Great Price, particularly the Book of Abraham, and Ezekiel 28 where it says satan/Lucifer walked in the midst of the stones of fire on the Holy mountain of God. I believe those stones of fire were us, when we were the "gnolaum," and that is where, and when, we were deceived into taking flesh bodies.

I was ready to dismiss everything in the Pearl of Great Price, but then I decided to examine it more closely, because of our discussions on other threads, and knowing that even Lucifer will give a person "enlightenment" --but it is like the partial truth he told Eve, for she did become wise, but she did surely die.

The Genesis chapter 1, or Abraham chapter 4 gods/ or the "elohim," are IMO, the rebellious third host of heaven led by the drag "queen of heaven," Lucifer/satan. Abraham chapter 3 tells us how in the preexistence we forfeited our first estate because Lucifer, described as the "one like unto God" in verse 24 (Isaiah 14 says Lucifer wanted to be like the Most High), said we would get glory added unto us forever and ever by choosing to go for a second estate in verse 26.

But this was the trap that got us taken into captivity to the lowest parts of the earth, as it is says in Psalm 139, I (David) was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. And Jude 1:15 has a stern warning for those who leave their first estate, those everlasting "chains" under darkness are the "ligaments of the body" according to Strong's concordance, and to be considered an impediment of what we are supposed to be. I guess it is like we have been paralyzed from the neck down, but we don't know it. We are supposed to be beings of light, yet we cast a shadow. We all fell before Adam and Eve, they just went into mortality first.

Fortunately, in verse 27 of Abraham 3, the one "like the Son of Man" was sent to pay for this mistake of ours. The decision to take on a flesh body was the original forbidden fruit. D&C section 130 is wrong about the Father having a body of flesh and bones, He is a Spirit. Lectures on Faith 5.2 says the Father is a Personage of Spirit. The Book of Mormon says He is the "Great Spirit." Jesus told the Samaritan woman at the well, the Father is a Spirit, and is looking for those to worship Him in Spirit and truth.

The rebellious third is one of the reasons that the number 33 is revered by the occult. These elohim are the "adam/gods" of the LDS, though this knowledge has been "hidden" from the plebs-LDS, because that is what the very word occult means, hidden. The "enlightenment" of Lucifer being "god" is only for the higher levels like Master Masons/Master Mahons, though this is being exposed more and more everyday, because it is almost at the end of this world. And Daniel 12:4 says: But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

These elohim are who the LORD God of Israel was at war with during the Exodus. They created themselves, and they were gods to themselves. Reading about origins of the Egyptian pantheon shows this. Joseph Smith was so obsessed with Egypt, that he purchased Egyptian papyri from a traveling salesman. The "translations" were likely from some copies of Masonic sacred texts, which have been kept by the bloodline/hybrid families, who trace their origins back to Cain, who married into them when he went to the land of Nod. They can have MMPs, while the descendants of Adam, or those with souls, cannot. Their spirits probably come through a different place/portal before birth. They lack souls because the LORD God did not breathe breath into their nostrils, to make them living souls. They are the original clones. Man now has the technology to make clones, and we probably received this knowledge from the fallen angels, who will readily impart forbidden knowledge so mankind will use it for their self destruction. They are the damed spirits that inhabit meat suits that Jude describes as:

4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.


Here is an example of an origin story of the Egyptian pantheon. It is also probably how they came back from the dead after Noah's flood. They are the gods of the dead.

Hu (ḥw), in ancient Egypt, was the deification of the first word, the word of creation, that Atum was said to have exclaimed upon ejaculating or, alternatively, his circumcision, in his masturbatory act of creating the Ennead.

Image

Hu (2nd serpent in centre) and Renenutet (3rd seated figure on the right)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hu_(mythology)


Isaiah 51 is talking about God before John 1:1, before the WORD became flesh, while the WORD was with God, and the WORD was God. While the Father and the Son were One.

Isaiah 52 is Messianic, it talks about the "suffering servant" role of Jesus Christ, when He came into the flesh to pay for our sins. His visage was "so marred more than any man," is describing Jesus Christ after being cruelly flogged, then crucified.

13 Behold, my servant shall deal prudently, he shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high.

14 As many were astonied at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men:

15 So shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him: for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider.


viewtopic.php?p=1297155#p1297155

The One Mighty and Strong: too much idolizing or not enough idolizing done for this servant?
Peeps wrote: August 29th, 2022, 9:01 pmJesus Christ came the first time as the meek, Lamb of God, the suffering servant of Isaiah 53, the marred one, etc. Isaiah 53:

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Jesus Christ was wounded, bruised and received stripes when He was flogged.

John the Baptist, the forerunner, announces Him as a Lamb in John 1:29-- "The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world."

He comes back as the roaring Lion of Judah. That is the mix up, there are not two Davidic Servants, it has been Jesus Christ the whole time, 1 describing His coming as a Son of Man, this was so He could play the role of our kinsman Redeemer, who had to come through the Davidic bloodline. Remember, Christ had to fulfill the law, the law required blood sacrifice to pay for sins done in the flesh.

Leviticus 17

11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

And to play the part of our kinsman Redeemer, because of the fall of Adam, we had became slaves to sin.

Leviticus 25

47 And if a sojourner or stranger wax rich by thee, and thy brother that dwelleth by him wax poor, and sell himself unto the stranger or sojourner by thee, or to the stock of the stranger's family:

48 After that he is sold he may be redeemed again; one of his brethren may redeem him:

49 Either his uncle, or his uncle's son, may redeem him, or any that is nigh of kin unto him of his family may redeem him; or if he be able, he may redeem himself.


Jesus was betrayed by Judas for 30 pieces of silver, this had to do with this part of Leviticus 25:

50 And he shall reckon with him that bought him from the year that he was sold to him unto the year of jubile: and the price of his sale shall be according unto the number of years, according to the time of an hired servant shall it be with him.

This was prophecied in Zechariah 11.

11 And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that it was the word of the Lord.

12 And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver.

13 And the Lord said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the Lord.


The priests took the 30 pieces of silver and bought the potter's field after Judas killed himself.

You didn't get to the part where Jesus starts His ministry off by reading Isaiah 61:1- and only part of verse 2.

At the beginning of His ministry, Jesus Christ read from Isaiah chapter 61 as it says in Luke 4.

13 And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed from him for a season.

14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.

15 And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.

16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias (Isaiah). And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.


He stopped short, and did not finish reading all of Isaiah 61:1-2, but stopped in the middle of verse 2, because after it said to preach the acceptable year of the Lord, it goes on to say, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; That part had not been fulfilled yet. This happens at His return, at the Second Coming, that is when He becomes the stone out of the mountain without hands.

This shows His earthly ministry had two roles to play.

This is after Jesus Christ is resurrected and has defeated death:

Matthew 28:

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


That is what Daniel saw, the Ancient of Days is the Father giving the Son all power and authority, and then His return to earth as King of Kings, and LORD of Lords, as the mountain without hands.

David prophecies of this in Psalm 110:

The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

2 The Lord shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.

3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

4 The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

5 The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.

6 He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries.

7 He shall drink of the brook in the way: therefore shall he lift up the head.
Looking for a Davidic Servant that is not Jesus Christ, is the Antichrist. This is why I fear for the LDS looking for one, because one is coming, with lying signs and wonders, all deceivableness, that if were possible may deceive the very elect.

P.S. your comments about drag queen shows being the equivalent of gender minstrel show, was brilliant.

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Kingdom of ZION
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Re: Morning Stars

Post by Kingdom of ZION »

Pazooka wrote: September 26th, 2022, 11:06 am
Kingdom of ZION wrote: September 26th, 2022, 12:31 am Sons of the Morning are members of the Church of the Firstborn, whom were born in the Morning of the First Resurrection, and are the Morning Stars. The First Resurrection is not the highest or true resurrection, for many will lay down their body at the end of time here, attempting to go further down the Path in the hopes of a more glorious resurrection. Most will not obtain such but there is nothing for them short of walking this Path, to prove unto themselves whether they are able and worthy.

When the Day Star comes, all mountains will be made low, and all valleys shall be exalted, and every eye shall see the author of their Salvation. In that moment shalt the Sons of the Morning come forth. Hosanna, Hosanna, Hosanna, unto our G_d and King.
What support do you have for “sons of the morning” necessarily belonging to the Church of the Firstborn, is what I’m curious about.

And what about the very old tradition of Mary as “Stella Matutina”?
Stella Matutina is Portuguese/Spanish for Morning Star. And though it has a long Catholic history of different Orders, that means nothing. Was the Virgin Mary a Morning Star? Yes, of course, only a Fourth Estate Being would be a Mother of the Anointed one. Even Joseph, her temporal husband, would be a Fourth Estate Being. Was Virgin Mary, a sealed wife unto Yah, the G_d of this world? That is my belief and witness.

"Sons of the Morning" Origin of son-of-the-morning in Hebrew is בֶּן-שָׁחַר (Ben-Shahar, "Son of Dawn"), some believe it originated as a allusion to the practice in the Middle East where travelers and merchants would rise before dawn so they would not have to travel in the heat of the day.

The name 'Lucifer' (Latin: literally meaning 'light bearing'), and the name Satan was originally simply the Roman name of the planet Venus, the 'morning star' that rose just before the sun. In Isaiah 14:12, we find the Hebrew phrase, "HeYLeL BeN-ShaCHaR", meaning 'bright son of the morning/dawn' (i.e. 'bright/glowing morning star'). So, are Sons of the Morning ALL fallen Angels? We only have this one scriptural reference to a Fallen Angel. The Sons of Perdition are the children of this fallen angel Lucifer, who was once a Son of the Morning. So, when he was a glorified Son in the presence of the Father, he was a Son of the Morning. Are all glorified Sons in the presence of the Father Sons of the Morning? What makes a Son a Son of the Morning? Clearly, being born or raised in the Morning of the First Resurrection, is the only possible Morning to be identified a Son of such.

I myself, prefer personal revelation, feeling it is better than a Scriptureal quote. I like the Scriptures for a second witness, however.

Shalom

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