Was John Taylor the last true prophet?
- DJB
- captain of 100
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Re: Was John Taylor the last true prophet?
Iβm one of those people on this forum who still believe the church/brethren have the keys to administer the gospel and ordinances, but I also believe that Joseph Smith was the first and last great prophet of this dispensation to date.
I am however curious as to how Hyrum smith would have led the church. Would he have had the spiritual gifts Joseph was gifted with
I am however curious as to how Hyrum smith would have led the church. Would he have had the spiritual gifts Joseph was gifted with
- Jason
- Master of Puppets
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Re: Was John Taylor the last true prophet?
None that I can or will share with you. You are past feeling...just grinding your ax...and no longer interested in truth, the gospel of Jesus Christ, the organization that Jesus Christ restored to the earth via Joseph Smith, and so forth...InfoWarrior82 wrote: βSeptember 24th, 2022, 6:29 pmDo you have any examples? Did Jesus Christ mean for the fruits of a prophet to be hidden from the world?
All you are looking for is points to argue...so I'll give you none. You like your path...follow it. If not...seek inspiration from above...follow President Nelson's guidance to get yourself in a position where you can receive your personal revelation directly from your Father in Heaven...and cease seeking for signs and contention and attacks on the Lord's anointed.
Of course you have your agency...but you'll reap what you sow....
- InfoWarrior82
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Re: Was John Taylor the last true prophet?
So.... Jesus Christ did mean for the fruits of His holy prophets to be hidden from the world? Doesn't sound too scriptural. In fact it sounds anti-scriptural. I think you're just upset because I'm bringing up good points that you have no answers for.
- marc
- Disciple of Jesus Christ
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Re: Was John Taylor the last true prophet?
I wouldn't consider him a "JST Genesis 14" prophet like I would Joseph. But the one I'm talking about could reasonably be categorized into the millennial dispensation, making Joseph Smith the only one of our dispensation as I originally postulated.Shawn Henry wrote: βSeptember 25th, 2022, 1:23 amI, too, believe they are the same, but that wasn't what I was referring to. Compare 2 Nephi 3:18 with D&C 100:9,11.marc wrote: βSeptember 23rd, 2022, 6:05 pm I see what you did there and I know what you're talking about. Allow me to correct what I previously wrote. I believe Joseph Smith Jr. is the only "JST Genesis 14" prophet in our dispensation so far.
Furthermore, I believe that 2 Nephi 3:24 is the same person that Isaiah is prophesying of in Isaiah 28:2.
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Re: Was John Taylor the last true prophet?
If you believe that the lordβs parable of the Talents and that it is talking about the last days and his servants then yes, John Taylor was the last prophet and will be casted out of heaven.
- Shawn Henry
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Re: Was John Taylor the last true prophet?
Are you sure? Consider his history. He was prophesied about nearly 4000 years ago. He began his calling in this dispensation before the first vision even occurred. More than 3/4 of the original Kirtland saints were from his ministry. He is compared to John the Baptist by the Savior. He shows that he is a Seer by having many canonized and non-canonized joint revelations with Joseph. He experienced a throne theophany event in section 76, where he was taken up to the throne of God and saw Christ on the right hand of the father and heard a voice testify that he is the Son of God. This is how God calls his truly great prophets. He, just like Joseph, holds the keys in this world and in the world to come. Many of the events in the Joseph the Seer prophecy are not yet fulfilled, meaning the Seer and the Spokesman will yet fulfill them at some future point or else the prophecy is false.
I think it is fair to say that you forgot about section 76 when you made the Genesis 14 "by mine own voice" reference. He is "by my own voice" and then some.
- FrankOne
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Re: Was John Taylor the last true prophet?
thought provoking ^jreuben wrote: βSeptember 25th, 2022, 1:29 am Last president was Wilford Woodruff. He screwed up royally whilst trying to subvert the satanists and was killed for it and basically his plan was lost with his death. "The Manifesto" was actually an effort to save the saints from being destroyed by the USA again, but the communists (luciferians) killed him before he could followthrough and ultimately undo what he did by way of The Manifesto and some other things that were temporary capitulations for them. The history is essentially lost at this point unfortunately and you have to study a lot of information carefully to come to this true understanding of the situation. The latter-day apostasy continued following this in degrees over the next, roughly, 80 years.
I had never read or considered that WW was attempting to undo the manifesto. I oft had thought that he had to have felt inner destruction for having completely contradicted what he received by revelation some 9 yrs previous.
If you know of any references to the intent that you described, I'd love to read them. thanks.
- marc
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Re: Was John Taylor the last true prophet?
Or maybe you're overlooking the rest of JST Genesis 14. Joseph Smith displayed gifts and authority-power to do/cause supernatural events.Shawn Henry wrote: βSeptember 25th, 2022, 1:28 pmAre you sure? Consider his history. He was prophesied about nearly 4000 years ago. He began his calling in this dispensation before the first vision even occurred. More than 3/4 of the original Kirtland saints were from his ministry. He is compared to John the Baptist by the Savior. He shows that he is a Seer by having many canonized and non-canonized joint revelations with Joseph. He experienced a throne theophany event in section 76, where he was taken up to the throne of God and saw Christ on the right hand of the father and heard a voice testify that he is the Son of God. This is how God calls his truly great prophets. He, just like Joseph, holds the keys in this world and in the world to come. Many of the events in the Joseph the Seer prophecy are not yet fulfilled, meaning the Seer and the Spokesman will yet fulfill them at some future point or else the prophecy is false.
I think it is fair to say that you forgot about section 76 when you made the Genesis 14 "by mine own voice" reference. He is "by my own voice" and then some.
- Luke
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 10785
- Location: England
Re: Was John Taylor the last true prophet?
The plan was to pretend to do away with polygamy, get statehood, enact pro-polygamy laws. This however went totally awry.FrankOne wrote: βSeptember 25th, 2022, 2:02 pmthought provoking ^jreuben wrote: βSeptember 25th, 2022, 1:29 am Last president was Wilford Woodruff. He screwed up royally whilst trying to subvert the satanists and was killed for it and basically his plan was lost with his death. "The Manifesto" was actually an effort to save the saints from being destroyed by the USA again, but the communists (luciferians) killed him before he could followthrough and ultimately undo what he did by way of The Manifesto and some other things that were temporary capitulations for them. The history is essentially lost at this point unfortunately and you have to study a lot of information carefully to come to this true understanding of the situation. The latter-day apostasy continued following this in degrees over the next, roughly, 80 years.
I had never read or considered that WW was attempting to undo the manifesto. I oft had thought that he had to have felt inner destruction for having completely contradicted what he received by revelation some 9 yrs previous.
If you know of any references to the intent that you described, I'd love to read them. thanks.
- Jason
- Master of Puppets
- Posts: 18296
Re: Was John Taylor the last true prophet?
Sure...if that makes you feel better...InfoWarrior82 wrote: βSeptember 25th, 2022, 7:57 am
So.... Jesus Christ did mean for the fruits of His holy prophets to be hidden from the world? Doesn't sound too scriptural. In fact it sounds anti-scriptural. I think you're just upset because I'm bringing up good points that you have no answers for.
- InfoWarrior82
- Level 34 Illuminated
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- Location: "There are 15 on the earth today, you can trust them completely." -President Nelson (Jan 2022)
Re: Was John Taylor the last true prophet?
But my point remains. Hidden fruits?Jason wrote: βSeptember 25th, 2022, 7:11 pmSure...if that makes you feel better...InfoWarrior82 wrote: βSeptember 25th, 2022, 7:57 amJason wrote: βSeptember 25th, 2022, 7:11 amNone that I can or will share with you.InfoWarrior82 wrote: βSeptember 24th, 2022, 6:29 pm
Do you have any examples? Did Jesus Christ mean for the fruits of a prophet to be hidden from the world?
So.... Jesus Christ did mean for the fruits of His holy prophets to be hidden from the world? Doesn't sound too scriptural. In fact it sounds anti-scriptural. I think you're just upset because I'm bringing up good points that you have no answers for.
- Jason
- Master of Puppets
- Posts: 18296
Re: Was John Taylor the last true prophet?
How does the saying go about pearls???InfoWarrior82 wrote: βSeptember 25th, 2022, 10:46 pmBut my point remains. Hidden fruits?Jason wrote: βSeptember 25th, 2022, 7:11 pmSure...if that makes you feel better...InfoWarrior82 wrote: βSeptember 25th, 2022, 7:57 am
So.... Jesus Christ did mean for the fruits of His holy prophets to be hidden from the world? Doesn't sound too scriptural. In fact it sounds anti-scriptural. I think you're just upset because I'm bringing up good points that you have no answers for.
By the way...the fruits aren't hidden...in plain sight for those who choose to see...this weekend being a prime example...
But you have to have eyes willing to see...and not blocked by covid beams...granted that is indeed a challenging thing to work through...
- InfoWarrior82
- Level 34 Illuminated
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- Location: "There are 15 on the earth today, you can trust them completely." -President Nelson (Jan 2022)
Re: Was John Taylor the last true prophet?
Jason wrote: βOctober 2nd, 2022, 10:24 amHow does the saying go about pearls???InfoWarrior82 wrote: βSeptember 25th, 2022, 10:46 pmBut my point remains. Hidden fruits?Jason wrote: βSeptember 25th, 2022, 7:11 pmSure...if that makes you feel better...InfoWarrior82 wrote: βSeptember 25th, 2022, 7:57 am
So.... Jesus Christ did mean for the fruits of His holy prophets to be hidden from the world? Doesn't sound too scriptural. In fact it sounds anti-scriptural. I think you're just upset because I'm bringing up good points that you have no answers for.
By the way...the fruits aren't hidden...in plain sight for those who choose to see...this weekend being a prime example...
But you have to have eyes willing to see...and not blocked by covid beams...granted that is indeed a challenging thing to work through...
Ah, so Jesus Christ, in the Book of Matthew said that by their fruits ye shall know them actually meant that you have to search for their hidden fruits and that only if you are spiritually discerned, you'll be able to see them. OKAY LOL.
No, dude. You and I both know that this is false. This is plainly evidenced by all the prophets in our scriptures. They didn't hide their fruits. They were plainly evident for all to see. What is happening now is a complete aberration to the doctrinal standard of prophetic fruits.
- The Red Pill
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1661
- Location: Southern Utah
Re: Was John Taylor the last true prophet?
Joseph restored the truth directly from God.
Brigham blew up the entire thing...by his actions and his false doctrines...polygamy, Adam God, blood atonement, blacks and priesthood, consolidating power to the 12, infallibility of church leaders...I could go on.
There have been good sincere church President's that have put an end to much of Brigham's nonsense...but make no mistake...the Church went into FULL APOSTASY with Brigham.
Brigham blew up the entire thing...by his actions and his false doctrines...polygamy, Adam God, blood atonement, blacks and priesthood, consolidating power to the 12, infallibility of church leaders...I could go on.
There have been good sincere church President's that have put an end to much of Brigham's nonsense...but make no mistake...the Church went into FULL APOSTASY with Brigham.
- Luke
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 10785
- Location: England
Re: Was John Taylor the last true prophet?
Brigham undoubtedly taught some things contrary to what Joseph Smith taught, but Plural Marriage is not one of them.The Red Pill wrote: βOctober 2nd, 2022, 11:01 am Joseph restored the truth directly from God.
Brigham blew up the entire thing...by his actions and his false doctrines...polygamy, Adam God, blood atonement, blacks and priesthood, consolidating power to the 12, infallibility of church leaders...I could go on.
There have been good sincere church President's that have put an end to much of Brigham's nonsense...but make no mistake...the Church went into FULL APOSTASY with Brigham.
My earnest hope is that you can change your mind on this, because I know that itβs a true principle.
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- captain of 1,000
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Re: Was John Taylor the last true prophet?
Does this agree with how the lord dealt with David? Supposedly the Davidic servant is supposed to be like the man he is named after thus making my question very relevant.The Red Pill wrote: βOctober 2nd, 2022, 11:01 am Joseph restored the truth directly from God.
Brigham blew up the entire thing...by his actions and his false doctrines...polygamy, Adam God, blood atonement, blacks and priesthood, consolidating power to the 12, infallibility of church leaders...I could go on.
There have been good sincere church President's that have put an end to much of Brigham's nonsense...but make no mistake...the Church went into FULL APOSTASY with Brigham.
- The Red Pill
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1661
- Location: Southern Utah
Re: Was John Taylor the last true prophet?
Not just contrary to what Joseph taught...contrary to what God taught...including polygamy.Luke wrote: βOctober 2nd, 2022, 11:07 amBrigham undoubtedly taught some things contrary to what Joseph Smith taught, but Plural Marriage is not one of them.The Red Pill wrote: βOctober 2nd, 2022, 11:01 am Joseph restored the truth directly from God.
Brigham blew up the entire thing...by his actions and his false doctrines...polygamy, Adam God, blood atonement, blacks and priesthood, consolidating power to the 12, infallibility of church leaders...I could go on.
There have been good sincere church President's that have put an end to much of Brigham's nonsense...but make no mistake...the Church went into FULL APOSTASY with Brigham.
My earnest hope is that you can change your mind on this, because I know that itβs a true principle.
I know we disagree on this, and I respect your opinion and you are entitled to have it...but I won't be changing my position. I can't go back from what I now know to be true.
- Jason
- Master of Puppets
- Posts: 18296
Re: Was John Taylor the last true prophet?
Plenty of spiritual fruit this weekend...and you are on your own with the false aspect...InfoWarrior82 wrote: βOctober 2nd, 2022, 10:41 amJason wrote: βOctober 2nd, 2022, 10:24 amHow does the saying go about pearls???
By the way...the fruits aren't hidden...in plain sight for those who choose to see...this weekend being a prime example...
But you have to have eyes willing to see...and not blocked by covid beams...granted that is indeed a challenging thing to work through...
Ah, so Jesus Christ, in the Book of Matthew said that by their fruits ye shall know them actually meant that you have to search for their hidden fruits and that only if you are spiritually discerned, you'll be able to see them. OKAY LOL.
No, dude. You and I both know that this is false. This is plainly evidenced by all the prophets in our scriptures. They didn't hide their fruits. They were plainly evident for all to see. What is happening now is a complete aberration to the doctrinal standard of prophetic fruits.
The irony is so deep...quoting so many historic prophets whom the people in their time refused to recognize...all while having a living spokesman for God on the earth today...and completely missing it...a feast and yet you went hungry...
- InfoWarrior82
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 10861
- Location: "There are 15 on the earth today, you can trust them completely." -President Nelson (Jan 2022)
Re: Was John Taylor the last true prophet?
Jason wrote: βOctober 2nd, 2022, 8:29 pmPlenty of spiritual fruit this weekend...and you are on your own with the false aspect...InfoWarrior82 wrote: βOctober 2nd, 2022, 10:41 amJason wrote: βOctober 2nd, 2022, 10:24 amHow does the saying go about pearls???
By the way...the fruits aren't hidden...in plain sight for those who choose to see...this weekend being a prime example...
But you have to have eyes willing to see...and not blocked by covid beams...granted that is indeed a challenging thing to work through...
Ah, so Jesus Christ, in the Book of Matthew said that by their fruits ye shall know them actually meant that you have to search for their hidden fruits and that only if you are spiritually discerned, you'll be able to see them. OKAY LOL.
No, dude. You and I both know that this is false. This is plainly evidenced by all the prophets in our scriptures. They didn't hide their fruits. They were plainly evident for all to see. What is happening now is a complete aberration to the doctrinal standard of prophetic fruits.
The irony is so deep...quoting so many historic prophets whom the people in their time refused to recognize...all while having a living spokesman for God on the earth today...and completely missing it...a feast and yet you went hungry...
I dunno, I've heard more spiritually moving talks in my home ward. To be honest, if this is all you require for you to be satisfied that these men are prophets, I feel bad for you.
- Jason
- Master of Puppets
- Posts: 18296
Re: Was John Taylor the last true prophet?
...then feel bad...lol...InfoWarrior82 wrote: βOctober 2nd, 2022, 8:47 pmJason wrote: βOctober 2nd, 2022, 8:29 pmPlenty of spiritual fruit this weekend...and you are on your own with the false aspect...InfoWarrior82 wrote: βOctober 2nd, 2022, 10:41 amJason wrote: βOctober 2nd, 2022, 10:24 am
How does the saying go about pearls???
By the way...the fruits aren't hidden...in plain sight for those who choose to see...this weekend being a prime example...
But you have to have eyes willing to see...and not blocked by covid beams...granted that is indeed a challenging thing to work through...
Ah, so Jesus Christ, in the Book of Matthew said that by their fruits ye shall know them actually meant that you have to search for their hidden fruits and that only if you are spiritually discerned, you'll be able to see them. OKAY LOL.
No, dude. You and I both know that this is false. This is plainly evidenced by all the prophets in our scriptures. They didn't hide their fruits. They were plainly evident for all to see. What is happening now is a complete aberration to the doctrinal standard of prophetic fruits.
The irony is so deep...quoting so many historic prophets whom the people in their time refused to recognize...all while having a living spokesman for God on the earth today...and completely missing it...a feast and yet you went hungry...
I dunno, I've heard more spiritually moving talks in my home ward. To be honest, if this is all you require for you to be satisfied that these men are prophets, I feel bad for you.
- Redpilled Mormon
- captain of 100
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Re: Was John Taylor the last true prophet?
I find it amazing that you finally mention some actual miracles that were wrought by the power of God and faith in Christ, almost as a negligent afterthought, but that the first 'miracles' that came to your mind were basically 'someone from the ldscorp told me to do something, what a true miracle!'Chris wrote: βSeptember 17th, 2022, 3:10 pmYes, i know the lady so in my book that counts..... If you want to get technical on miracles i can say i have seen hundreds with my own eyes. This is just directly related to the brethren...... I have had the gift of healing all my life, My brother had his eye shot out with a paint ball gun i gave him a blessing and healed him. My sister, had apendicites and it ruptured and turned her uterous into scar tissue, she had no uterous left, after giving her a blessing she has 3 kids. My other brother was born dead, my dad gave him a blessing and brought him back to life. I have seen miracle after miracle, i have seen the savior twice, i have had multiple visions of what is coming, 1 of them out of body...... i have been blessed in the department of miracles for which i am thankfull and i give the glory to GOD. Mormon 9 and Ether 12 are very true.Robin Hood wrote: βSeptember 17th, 2022, 2:02 pmYou said you saw two miracles "with your own eyes", but only related one.Chris wrote: βSeptember 17th, 2022, 12:06 pmThat is simply not true, i have shared on here two miracles with brethren i have seen with my own eyes. You are making assumptions based on nothing.
When i was younger i was about to turn in my 2 weeks notice at work and move back to where i grew up. I knew the Lord wanted me to stay but i didnt care. I went to lunch that day and there was a man waiting for me. I did not know him, He tried to talk to me and kept talking then he asked if he could eat with me. I said yes. He was a GA, He said the Lord sent him accross the street to talk to me and tell me to stay, After lunch we went to his office he gave me a blessing and told me the Lord needs me here and i should not run from the Lord.... I guess you could say he was the whale sent to fetch me.
2nd. I had a lady from my mission who was on the fence with joining the church and procrastinating it. She came to Utah for a visit while eating lunch in a mall food court Elder Holland walked up to her and said the Lord wants you baptised sister, she was amazed and shocked..... The next day she was eating at same food court downtown. Elder Eyring walked up to her and said you are the lady Elder Holland talked to yesterday and i am your second witness, the Lord wants you baptised...... she felt a amazing spirit and confirmation after both expereinces and went home and was baptised.
that is 2 expereinces and 2 miracles, well technically 3.
I have seen more miracles then most, it is all because of this church, the priesthood and my faithfullness to the Lord and his anoited that i have been so blessed.
I think the lds culture is steeped in pooh-poohing and downplaying actual real miracles (which are worked by all followers of Christ, by the power of faith, regardless of denomination) and instead promoting only the officially approved 'miracles' of the follow-the-prophet variety, which involve nothing miraculous at all. That's probably why there are fewer and fewer miracles witnessed by the lds members, at the same time as evangelicals (who might not have the fullness of the gospel, but actually do have real faith in God) are churning out eyewitness accounts of instances of the dead being raised and the sick being healed.
But no, in the lds culture we talk high-handedly about the 'faith to not be healed'.
- FrankOne
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 2829
Re: Was John Taylor the last true prophet?
exactly. Creating miracles in the mind to re-affirm the canned testimonies.Redpilled Mormon wrote: βOctober 6th, 2022, 11:22 pmand instead promoting only the officially approved 'miracles' of the follow-the-prophet variety, which involve nothing miraculous at all.Chris wrote: βSeptember 17th, 2022, 3:10 pmYes, i know the lady so in my book that counts..... If you want to get technical on miracles i can say i have seen hundreds with my own eyes. This is just directly related to the brethren...... I have had the gift of healing all my life, My brother had his eye shot out with a paint ball gun i gave him a blessing and healed him. My sister, had apendicites and it ruptured and turned her uterous into scar tissue, she had no uterous left, after giving her a blessing she has 3 kids. My other brother was born dead, my dad gave him a blessing and brought him back to life. I have seen miracle after miracle, i have seen the savior twice, i have had multiple visions of what is coming, 1 of them out of body...... i have been blessed in the department of miracles for which i am thankfull and i give the glory to GOD. Mormon 9 and Ether 12 are very true.Robin Hood wrote: βSeptember 17th, 2022, 2:02 pmYou said you saw two miracles "with your own eyes", but only related one.Chris wrote: βSeptember 17th, 2022, 12:06 pm
That is simply not true, i have shared on here two miracles with brethren i have seen with my own eyes. You are making assumptions based on nothing.
When i was younger i was about to turn in my 2 weeks notice at work and move back to where i grew up. I knew the Lord wanted me to stay but i didnt care. I went to lunch that day and there was a man waiting for me. I did not know him, He tried to talk to me and kept talking then he asked if he could eat with me. I said yes. He was a GA, He said the Lord sent him accross the street to talk to me and tell me to stay, After lunch we went to his office he gave me a blessing and told me the Lord needs me here and i should not run from the Lord.... I guess you could say he was the whale sent to fetch me.
2nd. I had a lady from my mission who was on the fence with joining the church and procrastinating it. She came to Utah for a visit while eating lunch in a mall food court Elder Holland walked up to her and said the Lord wants you baptised sister, she was amazed and shocked..... The next day she was eating at same food court downtown. Elder Eyring walked up to her and said you are the lady Elder Holland talked to yesterday and i am your second witness, the Lord wants you baptised...... she felt a amazing spirit and confirmation after both expereinces and went home and was baptised.
that is 2 expereinces and 2 miracles, well technically 3.
I have seen more miracles then most, it is all because of this church, the priesthood and my faithfullness to the Lord and his anoited that i have been so blessed.