Was John Taylor the last true prophet?

For discussing the Church, Gospel of Jesus Christ, Mormonism, etc.
User avatar
Dusty Wanderer
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1411

Re: Was John Taylor the last true prophet?

Post by Dusty Wanderer »

nightlight wrote: September 17th, 2022, 5:14 pm LDS know more about the hearts and private lives of men they never met than they do about the Book of Mormon

It's fascinating
Having been in various positions of administration at the local level over the years, I've sat in councils with stake presidencies and bishoprics. On a few occasions I've seen/heard members testifying to other members in testimony meetings, classrooms, etc that they heard some policy, goal or assignment had come to some president or bishop through some poignant inspirational or revelatory experience. It would fascinate me when I'd hear such a thing, having sat in the very room for its inception and planning, and could witness it was hardly what they had conjured it up as in their minds.

Now, I'm not suggesting this is always the case or that anyone has done that here -- and I can witness that some very inspirational leadership moments do occur -- but I've always wondered what motivated these specific individuals to fabricate/exaggerate such testimonies. And now I can't help but wonder how such things have manifested themselves at a macro scale, across the global church and throughout the entirety of its history.

It's not hard for me to imagine how someone could be aggrandized over time and through multiple retellings due simply to their social or institutional station that they held at the time.
Last edited by Dusty Wanderer on September 17th, 2022, 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Chris
captain of 100
Posts: 319

Re: Was John Taylor the last true prophet?

Post by Chris »

Dusty Wanderer wrote: September 17th, 2022, 5:15 pm
Chris wrote: September 17th, 2022, 3:04 pm
It is, but it isnt necessary in mortality. Very serious implications and to be honest most people dont have the faith or righteousness to make it happen.
I have always found this sentiment curious, and a little self-fulfilling. Why would I strive to have the manifestation of Jesus in the flesh if it's just not necessary? I'd just assume spend my time on the pleasures of mortality, while I can have them in this life, and save working out my calling and election made sure for the next, when I'd have less distractions. It seems to me that the Book of Mormon posits the opposite sentiment.

Also, why are we conflating the current day ordinance of Second Anointing with having one's calling and election made sure? Doesn't the latter kind of indicate being in the presence of the Savior in the flesh? And if so, can't we also conclude that the former today doesn't necessarily lead to the latter, in light of some of the Q15's comments on not having received such a witness?
I have always been interested in this topic as well. While yes i think all should reach for this blessing and goal. Many dont have the spiritual conversion, maturity and fortitude to stick it out. It is kind of like the garth brooks song unanswered prayers. Sometimes the lord loves enough to say not right now, he knows our lives from beginning to end and for some if they fall away or arent valiant enough that is not good to.

Praying thy will be done and i trust thee to know what is best. Is the best approach.

Sadly i think there are many like snuffer and others who this topic seems to pull them into the weeds and then quickly down to hell. For whatever reason this gospel topic leads more away then saving. The devil is great at what he does and many get knocked off by this first great test.....

So i agree we should all reach for the stars, and trust in the lords timing.

User avatar
Dusty Wanderer
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1411

Re: Was John Taylor the last true prophet?

Post by Dusty Wanderer »

Chris wrote: September 17th, 2022, 7:05 pm
Dusty Wanderer wrote: September 17th, 2022, 5:15 pm
Chris wrote: September 17th, 2022, 3:04 pm
It is, but it isnt necessary in mortality. Very serious implications and to be honest most people dont have the faith or righteousness to make it happen.
I have always found this sentiment curious, and a little self-fulfilling. Why would I strive to have the manifestation of Jesus in the flesh if it's just not necessary? I'd just assume spend my time on the pleasures of mortality, while I can have them in this life, and save working out my calling and election made sure for the next, when I'd have less distractions. It seems to me that the Book of Mormon posits the opposite sentiment.

Also, why are we conflating the current day ordinance of Second Anointing with having one's calling and election made sure? Doesn't the latter kind of indicate being in the presence of the Savior in the flesh? And if so, can't we also conclude that the former today doesn't necessarily lead to the latter, in light of some of the Q15's comments on not having received such a witness?
I have always been interested in this topic as well. While yes i think all should reach for this blessing and goal. Many dont have the spiritual conversion, maturity and fortitude to stick it out. It is kind of like the garth brooks song unanswered prayers. Sometimes the lord loves enough to say not right now, he knows our lives from beginning to end and for some if they fall away or arent valiant enough that is not good to.

Praying thy will be done and i trust thee to know what is best. Is the best approach.

Sadly i think there are many like snuffer and others who this topic seems to pull them into the weeds and then quickly down to hell. For whatever reason this gospel topic leads more away then saving. The devil is great at what he does and many get knocked off by this first great test.....

So i agree we should all reach for the stars, and trust in the lords timing.
Agree that we should all be striving for the things promised to the ancient fathers, but we must be patient waiting upon the Lord. No man can force His hand.

(Edited -- realized I was going way off topic. Apologies.)
Last edited by Dusty Wanderer on September 17th, 2022, 10:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Kingdom of ZION
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1939

Re: Was John Taylor the last true prophet?

Post by Kingdom of ZION »

FrankOne wrote: September 17th, 2022, 3:57 pm
Jason wrote: September 17th, 2022, 3:49 pm
Luke wrote: September 17th, 2022, 11:07 am
Jason wrote: September 17th, 2022, 10:54 am

Hard to see when you are blind...
Speak for yourself, brother.
I've seen lots of miracles, revelations, etc...
I would think that the post above was in reference to modern day prophets performing miracles and receiving revelations , declared as revelations from God. If a man talks to God and is in the position of Prophet of a church, he declares it is of God because God is the one speaking, not the man. He gives the people a directive from God to the people. That is supposed to be his job. When a man is talking as a man, he does not make the declaration.

I am wondering if you can cite any miracles or revelations from any of the last several of the LDS Prophets?
Yes, that is the point. JS said one has to make some reference as to divine origin, as in 'Thus saith the Lord!'

The last 'Thus saith the Lord' Revelation that the LDS Church received was received by Wilford Woodruff in 1889. He and the Brethren were told what to do and commanded to not do very specific things in relation to making agreements with the US Government and its courts. Ten months later WW broke what he had been directly commanded to not do and placed the final nail in the coffin of apostasy. Rejecting the New and Everlasting Covenant ended the authority and Dispensation unto the Gentiles, as foreseen and foretold in 3 Nephi 16. It has been over one hundred and thirty years now where not one 'Thus saith the Lord' revelation has been received or given. The first sixty or so years, over a hundred such revelations were received. Now, nothing, nada, zip...

People here have seen miracles, spiritual experiences, or even visitations. This is not only found in the LDS Church, for if so, then they would be the only church, but because they are not, hence the thousands upon thousands of other churches. Real Revelations is what is totally missing in all the churches. The OP asks WHO was the last true Prophet. By what Joseph Smith said, Wilford Woodruff was the last Prophet in the LDS Church. I will attach a copy here for your enlightenment, for those who have not read it:

1889 REVELATION

The following was copied from the Journal of Wilford Woodruff by Joseph W. Musser as before stated:

November 24th, 1889.

Attended a meeting with the lawyers at the Guardo (house) in the evening. They wanted me to make some concession to the court upon polygamy and other points, and I spent several hours alone and inquired of the Lord and received the following revelation:

Thus saith the Lord to my servant Wilford. I, the Lord, have heard thy prayers and thy request, and will answer thee by the voice of my spirit.

Thus saith the Lord unto my servants the Presidency of My Church, who hold the Keys of the Kingdom of God on the earth. I the Lord hold the destiny of the courts in your midst, and the destiny of this nation, and all other nations of the earth, in mine own hands, and all that I have revealed and promised and decreed concerning the generation in which you live shall come to pass, and no power shall stay my hand.

Let not my servants who are called to the Presidency of my Church deny my word or my law, which concerns the salvation of the children of men.

Let them pray for the Holy Spirit which shall be given them to guide them in their acts. Place not yourselves in jeopardy to your enemies by promise. Your enemies seek your destruction and the destruction of my people. If the Saints will hearken unto my voice, and the counsel of my servants, the wicked shall not prevail.

Let my servants who officiate as your counselors before the courts make their pleadings as they are moved upon by the Holy Spirit, without any further pledges from the Priesthood, and they will be justified.

I, the Lord, will hold the courts, with the officers of government and the nation responsible for their acts towards the inhabitants of Zion.

I, Jesus Christ, the Saviour of the world, am in your midst. I am your advocate with the Father. Fear not, little flock, it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the Kingdom. Fear not the wicked and ungodly.

Search the scriptures, for they are they which testify of me; also those revelations which I have given to my servant Joseph, and to all my servants since the world began, which are recorded in the records of divine truth.

Those revelations contain the judgments of God which are to be poured out upon all nations under the heavens, which include Great Babylon. These judgments are at the door. They will be fulfilled as God lives. Leave judgment with me, it is mine, saith the Lord. Watch the signs of the times and they will show the fulfillment of the words of the Lord. Let my servants call upon the Lord in mighty prayer, retain the Holy Ghost as your constant companion and act as you are moved upon by that Spirit, and all will be well with you.

The wicked are fast ripening in iniquity, and they will be cut off by the judgments of God. Great events await you and this generation and are nigh at your doors. Awake! O Israel, and have faith in God and his promises and he will not forsake you. I the Lord will deliver my Saints from the dominion of the wicked in mine own due time and way.

I cannot deny my Word, neither in blessings nor judgments. Therefore let mine anointed gird up their loins, watch and be sober, and keep my commandments. Pray always and faint not. Exercise faith in the Lord and in the promises of God; be valiant in the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The eyes of the Lord and the Heavenly Hosts are watching over you and your acts. Therefore be faithful until I come. I come quickly to reward every man, according to the deeds done in the body. Even so, Amen.



As final proof of the 1889 revelation we offer the following from the diary of L. John Nuttall:

Sunday, Nov. 24, 1889. I spent the day at Leonards in reading &c. Thomas called in the afternoon. Bro. D. R. Bateman called for me with a buggy this evening and took me to the Gardo House. I found Pres. Woodruff there. He with Pres. Geo. Q. Cannon had met this afternoon with Bro. John W. Young, LeGrand Young, Jas. H. Moyle and R. W. Young to consider the matters as presented and talked upon yesterday, and the question was left with Pres. Woodruff to decide. The President told me of this and said that he had made the subject a matter of prayer, and by the voice of the spirit he was directed to write. After he had concluded writing, which he was doing when I arrived, he asked me to copy a revelation which he had received. I did so. Having heard Bro. J. W. Young's reasoning, I felt very much worked up in my feelings; for I did not feel that as a church we could assume the position in regard to Celestial Marriage which he seemed to desire should be taken, and when Pres. Woodruff commenced talking to me this evening I felt that he had become converted and actually trembled, for I knew such had not been Prest. Woodruff's feelings before; but as I wrote at his dictation, I felt better all the time and when completed I felt as light and joyous as it is possible to feel, for I was satisfied that Pres. Woodruff had received the word of the Lord. When Pres. Jos. F. Smith returned and read the revelation he was moved to tears and expressed his approval and acceptance of the word of the Lord to His Servants and Saints. We all felt thankful to the Lord.** *

Monday, Nov. 25th, 1889.*** Prest. Geo. Q. Cannon expressed his satisfaction at the mind of the Lord as given to Pres. Woodruff in the matter spoken of yesterday and Saturday.***

Wednesday, Nov. 27, 1889.*** Revelation of Pres. Woodruff, Sunday Nov. 24th, 1889. (Then follows the text of the revelation as given.)

Diary of L. John Nuttall, pp. 164-165,168, original; pp. 103,104,106, B.Y.U. Typescript. See Messages of the First Presidency 3: 171-176.

User avatar
Jason
Master of Puppets
Posts: 18296

Re: Was John Taylor the last true prophet?

Post by Jason »

FrankOne wrote: September 17th, 2022, 3:57 pm
Jason wrote: September 17th, 2022, 3:49 pm
Luke wrote: September 17th, 2022, 11:07 am
Jason wrote: September 17th, 2022, 10:54 am

Hard to see when you are blind...
Speak for yourself, brother.
I've seen lots of miracles, revelations, etc...
I would think that the post above was in reference to modern day prophets performing miracles and receiving revelations , declared as revelations from God. If a man talks to God and is in the position of Prophet of a church, he declares it is of God because God is the one speaking, not the man. He gives the people a directive from God to the people. That is supposed to be his job. When a man is talking as a man, he does not make the declaration.

I am wondering if you can cite any miracles or revelations from any of the last several of the LDS Prophets?
I can. As well as the confirmation or fulfillment of revelation. But really...at this point...what's the point? not hard to find...and must be confirmed by the Spirit anyways to be of any worth or impact...

How long after all the miraculous visions in the heavens at the coming of Christ including a day night day where night never came...before folks blew it off and went their ways?

User avatar
Jason
Master of Puppets
Posts: 18296

Re: Was John Taylor the last true prophet?

Post by Jason »

Qlitewski wrote: September 16th, 2022, 8:23 am Was John Taylor the last true prophet?
Let's suppose for a minute that this is the case...what of John Taylor's prophecies?

User avatar
Shawn Henry
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4507

Re: Was John Taylor the last true prophet?

Post by Shawn Henry »

The standard that God started this dispensation with is that every one of his prophets had a revelation from him where the Lord himself attests to their call.

Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdery, Sidney Rigdon, Frederick Williams, Hyrum Smith, and William Law all were called directly by God through a revelation produced to the church.

That pattern ended with the martyrdom.

Brigham Young-No revelation from God.

John Taylor-No revelation from God.

Wilford Woodruff-No revelation from God.

See the pattern yet?

A new pattern, a pattern of men, was then introduced. BY and the 12 had the members vote them into leadership over the church. God has honored that new pattern and has allowed men to call men to be their leaders.

User avatar
Luke
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 10785
Location: England

Re: Was John Taylor the last true prophet?

Post by Luke »

Shawn Henry wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 4:11 pm The standard that God started this dispensation with is that every one of his prophets had a revelation from him where the Lord himself attests to their call.

Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdery, Sidney Rigdon, Frederick Williams, Hyrum Smith, and William Law all were called directly by God through a revelation produced to the church.

That pattern ended with the martyrdom.

Brigham Young-No revelation from God.

John Taylor-No revelation from God.

Wilford Woodruff-No revelation from God.

See the pattern yet?

A new pattern, a pattern of men, was then introduced. BY and the 12 had the members vote them into leadership over the church. God has honored that new pattern and has allowed men to call men to be their leaders.
This isn’t true. BY, JT, and WW all had “Thus saith the Lord” revelations.

Including John Taylor’s infamous Great Revelation of September 1886, the anniversary of which we will soon be welcoming.

User avatar
Shawn Henry
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4507

Re: Was John Taylor the last true prophet?

Post by Shawn Henry »

blitzinstripes wrote: September 16th, 2022, 8:24 am You're being generous. I'll take Joseph Smith Jr. Final answer.
marc wrote: September 16th, 2022, 9:18 am I believe Joseph Smith Jr. was the last "JST Genesis 14" prophet.
Scripture study challenge.

Tell me how many prophets are mentioned in 2 Nephi 3 whose latter-day appearance was prophesied of nearly 4000 years in advance. Tell me then, which of those did the Lord compare to John the Baptist who was called the greatest prophet who ever lived. Which one outlived the other?

Forgive me, I'm just a firm believer in giving credit where credit is due.

It doesn't really matter in the end, what matters is when did the heavens close and when did the eyes of the Seers begin to close. That is the far better question.

User avatar
Shawn Henry
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4507

Re: Was John Taylor the last true prophet?

Post by Shawn Henry »

Luke wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 4:16 pm This isn’t true. BY, JT, and WW all had “Thus saith the Lord” revelations.
I didn't say revelations from the Lord, now did I? I said a revelation where God calls them to that position. The revelation states in the Lords own words that he is calling that person to be a prophet.

This is one more witness that lets us know the person is called of God and not just some pretender who claims it himself by starting a revelation "Thus saith the Lord".

There is no revelation from God attesting to him calling any of the 12 to be PSR's. The pattern stopped at the martyrdom.

User avatar
marc
Disciple of Jesus Christ
Posts: 10351
Contact:

Re: Was John Taylor the last true prophet?

Post by marc »

Shawn Henry wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 4:27 pm
blitzinstripes wrote: September 16th, 2022, 8:24 am You're being generous. I'll take Joseph Smith Jr. Final answer.
marc wrote: September 16th, 2022, 9:18 am I believe Joseph Smith Jr. was the last "JST Genesis 14" prophet.
Scripture study challenge.

Tell me how many prophets are mentioned in 2 Nephi 3 whose latter-day appearance was prophesied of nearly 4000 years in advance. Tell me then, which of those did the Lord compare to John the Baptist who was called the greatest prophet who ever lived. Which one outlived the other?

Forgive me, I'm just a firm believer in giving credit where credit is due.

It doesn't really matter in the end, what matters is when did the heavens close and when did the eyes of the Seers begin to close. That is the far better question.
I see what you did there and I know what you're talking about. Allow me to correct what I previously wrote. I believe Joseph Smith Jr. is the only "JST Genesis 14" prophet in our dispensation so far.

Furthermore, I believe that 2 Nephi 3:24 is the same person that Isaiah is prophesying of in Isaiah 28:2.

User avatar
InfoWarrior82
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 10861
Location: "There are 15 on the earth today, you can trust them completely." -President Nelson (Jan 2022)

Re: Was John Taylor the last true prophet?

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

Jason wrote: September 17th, 2022, 3:49 pm
Luke wrote: September 17th, 2022, 11:07 am
Jason wrote: September 17th, 2022, 10:54 am
Luke wrote: September 17th, 2022, 10:50 am

The problem is that today’s imposters bring forth no fruit whatsoever.

No miracles, no revelations, nothing.

This is undeniable.
Hard to see when you are blind...
Speak for yourself, brother.
I've seen lots of miracles, revelations, etc...

From these men?

CMajor
captain of 100
Posts: 198
Location: North of Cedar City

Re: Was John Taylor the last true prophet?

Post by CMajor »

The dispensation to which you refer to being the 6th one. Of which Joseph Smith Jr. is the Prophet of the 6th dispensation. He being the last true Prophet, being called in his youth.

User avatar
InfoWarrior82
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 10861
Location: "There are 15 on the earth today, you can trust them completely." -President Nelson (Jan 2022)

Re: Was John Taylor the last true prophet?

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

Shawn Henry wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 4:11 pm The standard that God started this dispensation with is that every one of his prophets had a revelation from him where the Lord himself attests to their call.

Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdery, Sidney Rigdon, Frederick Williams, Hyrum Smith, and William Law all were called directly by God through a revelation produced to the church.

That pattern ended with the martyrdom.

Brigham Young-No revelation from God.

John Taylor-No revelation from God.

Wilford Woodruff-No revelation from God.

See the pattern yet?

A new pattern, a pattern of men, was then introduced. BY and the 12 had the members vote them into leadership over the church. God has honored that new pattern and has allowed men to call men to be their leaders.



BY had D&C 136

JT had
https://www.mrm.org/john-taylors-1886-revelation

and WW had these two:


Wilford Woodruff's 1880 revelation
https://historyofmormonism.com/2010/03/ ... evelation/
https://archive.is/F5vKy



Wilford Woodruff's 1889 revelation from the Lord
https://zomarah.wordpress.com/2010/10/0 ... evelation/
https://archive.is/tGxvr



Now whether or not these men actually wrote the words of Christ, or of themselves, is up to you and the Lord.

But from my research, WW was the last church President to write down what apparently was Christ in first person. Why? I have my own theories.
Last edited by InfoWarrior82 on September 23rd, 2022, 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
FrankOne
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2826

Re: Was John Taylor the last true prophet?

Post by FrankOne »

Shawn Henry wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 4:34 pm
Luke wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 4:16 pm This isn’t true. BY, JT, and WW all had “Thus saith the Lord” revelations.
I didn't say revelations from the Lord, now did I? I said a revelation where God calls them to that position. The revelation states in the Lords own words that he is calling that person to be a prophet.

This is one more witness that lets us know the person is called of God and not just some pretender who claims it himself by starting a revelation "Thus saith the Lord".

There is no revelation from God attesting to him calling any of the 12 to be PSR's. The pattern stopped at the martyrdom.
That's an interesting point. Brigham Young did assume the role as a matter of public opinion. No different in the least from a politician. He stood on a soap box and proclaimed his position...hear me hear me! Some contemporaries said that the story of the visage or mantle of JS falling upon BY didn't occur. Perhaps it was a bunch of hooey. The account of how BY become the Prophet never sat well with me since the first time I heard it.

To me, the entire church had fallen and God let BY take it over because he was the tyrant that they needed. He was a brilliant organizer and he did serve a purpose. The church members weren't driven out of every where they went because they were so "righteous" while their persecutors were "evil". They were hated for their arrogance and their retaliation to the rejection that they received from locals. A time of humility was in order so BY took them across into nowhere and he had them build him a nice home while they lived in tents. hahahah. Fitting, no?

Today is no different, the members get the leadership that they want and need. Men following men singing ring around the rosie.

User avatar
PeacefulProtests
captain of 100
Posts: 330

Re: Was John Taylor the last true prophet?

Post by PeacefulProtests »

What constitutes a True Prophet?

This thread reminded me of Helaman 13:25-27

25 And now when ye talk, ye say: If our days had been in the days of our fathers of old, we would not have slain the prophets; we would not have stoned them, and cast them out.

26 Behold ye are worse than they; for as the Lord liveth, if a prophet come among you and declareth unto you the word of the Lord, which testifieth of your sins and iniquities, ye are angry with him, and cast him out and seek all manner of ways to destroy him; yea, you will say that he is a false prophet, and that he is a sinner, and of the devil, because he testifieth that your deeds are evil.

27 But behold, if a man shall come among you and shall say: Do this, and there is no iniquity; do that and ye shall not suffer; yea, he will say: Walk after the pride of your own hearts; yea, walk after the pride of your eyes, and do whatsoever your heart desireth—and if a man shall come among you and say this, ye will receive him, and say that he is a prophet.

ie: A Prophet is only received as such if he satisfies what the population "Thinks" that Prophet should be doing rather than what the Lord would have him do for that specific people in that specific point in time

Remember the Sadducees and Pharisees rejected the living Christ. We Have Abraham and the Prophets but who are you? Always easier to accept the prophets of the past and reject the one standing right in front of you

User avatar
FrankOne
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2826

Re: Was John Taylor the last true prophet?

Post by FrankOne »

PeacefulProtests wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 8:36 pm What constitutes a True Prophet?

This thread reminded me of Helaman 13:25-27

25 And now when ye talk, ye say: If our days had been in the days of our fathers of old, we would not have slain the prophets; we would not have stoned them, and cast them out.

26 Behold ye are worse than they; for as the Lord liveth, if a prophet come among you and declareth unto you the word of the Lord, which testifieth of your sins and iniquities, ye are angry with him, and cast him out and seek all manner of ways to destroy him; yea, you will say that he is a false prophet, and that he is a sinner, and of the devil, because he testifieth that your deeds are evil.

27 But behold, if a man shall come among you and shall say: Do this, and there is no iniquity; do that and ye shall not suffer; yea, he will say: Walk after the pride of your own hearts; yea, walk after the pride of your eyes, and do whatsoever your heart desireth—and if a man shall come among you and say this, ye will receive him, and say that he is a prophet.

ie: A Prophet is only received as such if he satisfies what the population "Thinks" that Prophet should be doing rather than what the Lord would have him do for that specific people in that specific point in time

Remember the Sadducees and Pharisees rejected the living Christ. We Have Abraham and the Prophets but who are you? Always easier to accept the prophets of the past and reject the one standing right in front of you
A Prophet hears the voice of the Lord and then passes it on instructively as such. God has instructed me to relay this to you ...........
A Prophet is a man with the gift of Prophecy and declares it.
A Prophet leads as a seer because he sees what others cannot.
A Prophet leads a miraculous life which is easily observed as nothing short of incredible. He stands apart from ALL men.

To assume a man to be a Prophet that does not act in ALL of this capacity is folly. Folly seems to be where the majority wishes to be today.

User avatar
Jason
Master of Puppets
Posts: 18296

Re: Was John Taylor the last true prophet?

Post by Jason »

InfoWarrior82 wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 7:02 pm
Jason wrote: September 17th, 2022, 3:49 pm
Luke wrote: September 17th, 2022, 11:07 am
Jason wrote: September 17th, 2022, 10:54 am

Hard to see when you are blind...
Speak for yourself, brother.
I've seen lots of miracles, revelations, etc...

From these men?
Indeed

User avatar
InfoWarrior82
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 10861
Location: "There are 15 on the earth today, you can trust them completely." -President Nelson (Jan 2022)

Re: Was John Taylor the last true prophet?

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

Jason wrote: September 24th, 2022, 3:53 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 7:02 pm
Jason wrote: September 17th, 2022, 3:49 pm
Luke wrote: September 17th, 2022, 11:07 am

Speak for yourself, brother.
I've seen lots of miracles, revelations, etc...

From these men?
Indeed
Do you have any examples? Did Jesus Christ mean for the fruits of a prophet to be hidden from the world?

User avatar
creator
(of the Forum)
Posts: 8237
Location: The Matrix
Contact:

Re: Was John Taylor the last true prophet?

Post by creator »

Qlitewski wrote: September 16th, 2022, 8:23 am Was John Taylor the last true prophet?
Joseph Smith, if we're just talking about presidents of the Church.

User avatar
Shawn Henry
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4507

Re: Was John Taylor the last true prophet?

Post by Shawn Henry »

marc wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 6:05 pm I see what you did there and I know what you're talking about. Allow me to correct what I previously wrote. I believe Joseph Smith Jr. is the only "JST Genesis 14" prophet in our dispensation so far.

Furthermore, I believe that 2 Nephi 3:24 is the same person that Isaiah is prophesying of in Isaiah 28:2.
I, too, believe they are the same, but that wasn't what I was referring to. Compare 2 Nephi 3:18 with D&C 100:9,11.

User avatar
jreuben
captain of 100
Posts: 896

Re: Was John Taylor the last true prophet?

Post by jreuben »

Last president was Wilford Woodruff. He screwed up royally whilst trying to subvert the satanists and was killed for it and basically his plan was lost with his death. "The Manifesto" was actually an effort to save the saints from being destroyed by the USA again, but the communists (luciferians) killed him before he could followthrough and ultimately undo what he did by way of The Manifesto and some other things that were temporary capitulations for them. The history is essentially lost at this point unfortunately and you have to study a lot of information carefully to come to this true understanding of the situation. The latter-day apostasy continued following this in degrees over the next, roughly, 80 years.

User avatar
Shawn Henry
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4507

Re: Was John Taylor the last true prophet?

Post by Shawn Henry »

InfoWarrior82 wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 7:23 pm BY had D&C 136

JT had
https://www.mrm.org/john-taylors-1886-revelation

and WW had these two:


Wilford Woodruff's 1880 revelation
https://historyofmormonism.com/2010/03/ ... evelation/
https://archive.is/F5vKy



Wilford Woodruff's 1889 revelation from the Lord
https://zomarah.wordpress.com/2010/10/0 ... evelation/
https://archive.is/tGxvr



Now whether or not these men actually wrote the words of Christ, or of themselves, is up to you and the Lord.

But from my research, WW was the last church President to write down what apparently was Christ in first person. Why? I have my own theories.
You misunderstood me just as Luke did. I know they claimed revelations. What I'm saying is, God gave revelation and within those revelations he calls his prophets and attests to their positions with his own words.

Like this for example:

"Which commandments were given to Joseph Smith, Jun., who was called of God, and ordained an apostle of Jesus Christ, to be the first elder of this church;

And to Oliver Cowdery, who was also called of God, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to be the second elder of this church, and ordained under his hand;"

Here we have God attesting to their calling. All the top positions of the church have a corresponding revelation affirming their calls. Even William Law's call is affirmed by the Lord, but there are no revelations where God says BY, JT, and WW are called to be PSR's. According to the revelations of God, all they are, are Apostles.

User avatar
Shawn Henry
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4507

Re: Was John Taylor the last true prophet?

Post by Shawn Henry »

FrankOne wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 7:48 pm That's an interesting point. Brigham Young did assume the role as a matter of public opinion. No different in the least from a politician. He stood on a soap box and proclaimed his position...hear me hear me! Some contemporaries said that the story of the visage or mantle of JS falling upon BY didn't occur. Perhaps it was a bunch of hooey. The account of how BY become the Prophet never sat well with me since the first time I heard it.

To me, the entire church had fallen and God let BY take it over because he was the tyrant that they needed. He was a brilliant organizer and he did serve a purpose. The church members weren't driven out of every where they went because they were so "righteous" while their persecutors were "evil". They were hated for their arrogance and their retaliation to the rejection that they received from locals. A time of humility was in order so BY took them across into nowhere and he had them build him a nice home while they lived in tents. hahahah. Fitting, no?

Today is no different, the members get the leadership that they want and need. Men following men singing ring around the rosie.
Amen.

User avatar
gkearney
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5346

Re: Was John Taylor the last true prophet?

Post by gkearney »

FrankOne wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 7:48 pmToday is no different, the members get the leadership that they want and need. Men following men singing ring around the rosie.
Ring-a-ring-a-rosies
A pocket full of posies
A tissue, a tissue
We all fall down

Post Reply